Fargo Mafia [Game Ends]

[Alison]

A few things have thrown me off from the beginning but his current vote for Marmot is something that inclines me to think that way as well. I also just don't think his iso is carrying the proper tone and I'm wondering if his read on sloonei was developed improperly. He also also seems hesistant to say things that I wouldn't usually think he'd be hesitant to say. I did like the post he made where he talked about sloonei/jay mutual TRs and how seriously they're taken or something though idk

this is probably just the usual day 1 jay tinfoil but that's where I'm at

I don't really get this case and I feel like you're trying to force a scum case on Jay. eg. What about Jay's tone strikes you as scummy? What the hell does "his read on Sloonei was developed improperly" mean? What exactly do you think Jay is hesitant to say? Why is he being townread by Sloonei if he's scum?

accusing tsp of making a case on day 1 is questionable

What are you trying to do in the quoted post if not make a case?

[Marmot]

This game already feels like a civilian win. Strut your stuff town gang and we can climb the 2021 leaderboard in no time. Just do your thing, because you've been blessed with a state of total solving comfort.

JJJ trying to make this game look easy on page 2. I dislike.

Nothing comes easy, dear rodent, but it's nice to feel like we're going about things the right way. When I like the atmosphere of a game, I will make it known and hope that it is sustained. I think we're doing well. If there's any skill I trust myself with the most in the game of Mafia, it's identifying when a game thread is going well for the civilian faction and when it is not -- and in steering it true when needed.

Sure. I was just surprised to see that as post #99 in the game thread. But yes, for better or for worse, you are probably the Syndicate's best cheerleader.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Someone asked me why I was suspicious of jay

[JaggedJimmyJay]

also jay has never in his life omgused me as town and he has as mafia sample size = like 2

"omgus" is such a dumb concept and it should disappear from Mafia vocabulary

there's the jay we know and love

what have I hesitated to say

[Alison]

And I floated this possiblity to answer the last question there Alison

What possibility?

[Marmot]

my most hot take right now is that i find boknows mildly villagery

Ah yes, that is hot

[Alison]

Town: JJJ, MacDougall, Nanook, Oddmerta, Sloonei, Strawhenge, falcon45ca

Light town: Esooa, fingersplints, BoKnows

Null: Dom, Michelle, Long Con, Marmot

Mixed: tutuu, staypositivefriedn

POE: AL_sama, JPIC, KZA, TonyStarkPrime, tedxtr

Here's where I'm at.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Friendly request from Jay that everyone ensure you vote in the poll when you call your vote in the thread, and that you call your vote in the thread when you vote in the poll. They were out of alignment a number of times in Fallout 2 for various folks and it made my eyeballs tweak hard.

[Alison]

Feeling a lot less pessimistic about the game, it feels much less messy now.

[Alison]

I change my mind, Marmot should be shifted down from null to POE. Upper POE, but still.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

my most hot take right now is that i find boknows mildly villagery

I like his tone more nowadays. Do you take it farther than tone?

[staypositivefriend]

@Alison -

i'm trying to piece together how much of your concern toward me is stemming from the fact that i've been vocally suspicious about you throughout the game. you've mentioned several times that you take "issue" with some of my solving but you haven't (to my knowledge) provided any examples

why am i mixed?

[TonyStarkPrime]

also jay has never in his life omgused me as town and he has as mafia sample size = like 2

"omgus" is such a dumb concept and it should disappear from Mafia vocabulary

there's the jay we know and love

what have I hesitated to say

Hesistate is perhaps bad word choice. I think you've been reticent more than I recall. Your views on tutuu (and your interaction on the subject with bo) and marmot seem weird

[staypositivefriend]

my most hot take right now is that i find boknows mildly villagery

I like his tone more nowadays. Do you take it farther than tone?

he seems to be at ease with the thread and his solving/questions make sense but don't feel attached to any particular agenda/motivation. it is pretty much just tone, yeah

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Town: JJJ, MacDougall, Nanook, Oddmerta, Sloonei, Strawhenge, falcon45ca

It'd feel like a major victory for me to get sNookerdoodle into the top town pile. What sold you?

[TonyStarkPrime]

And I floated this possiblity to answer the last question there Alison

What possibility?

that jay was a wolf to answer the question why is sloonei tring jay

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Hesistate is perhaps bad word choice. I think you've been reticent more than I recall. Your views on tutuu (and your interaction on the subject with bo) and marmot seem weird

What are your own views on tutuu and Marmot? What were they when you initially stated your suspicion of me?

[TonyStarkPrime]

Hesistate is perhaps bad word choice. I think you've been reticent more than I recall. Your views on tutuu (and your interaction on the subject with bo) and marmot seem weird

What are your own views on tutuu and Marmot? What were they when you initially stated your suspicion of me?

I had no read on marmot and thought it was weird that you picked up on (nanook?s) suspicion. I have a light TR on tutuu and did at that time as well, same as you.

[TonyStarkPrime]

actual read: some of your posts this game have given me the impression that you're doing a sloonei impersonation

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Hesistate is perhaps bad word choice. I think you've been reticent more than I recall. Your views on tutuu (and your interaction on the subject with bo) and marmot seem weird

What are your own views on tutuu and Marmot? What were they when you initially stated your suspicion of me?

I had no read on marmot and thought it was weird that you picked up on (nanook?s) suspicion. I have a light TR on tutuu and did at that time as well, same as you.

Nanook had nothing to do with it. I'm not sure he had that suspicion. You might mean Mac -- if so, that's just a shared suspect, not "picking up on" anything. What's weird about my tutuu read if we share it?

[BoKnows]

A few things have thrown me off from the beginning but his current vote for Marmot is something that inclines me to think that way as well. I also just don't think his iso is carrying the proper tone and I'm wondering if his read on sloonei was developed improperly. He also also seems hesistant to say things that I wouldn't usually think he'd be hesitant to say. I did like the post he made where he talked about sloonei/jay mutual TRs and how seriously they're taken or something though idk

this is probably just the usual day 1 jay tinfoil but that's where I'm at

@JaggedJimmyJay Seems pretty run of the mill to me. He admitted it was "usual day 1 tinfoil", it can also be seen as hedging though. At this time Marmot had what 0-5 posts and you voted for him, gonna call it RVS for the sake of labelling that vote. I don't know how a read is developed properly and inproperly tbh so no comment. (Is that even a thing?). The second part is meta, and I got no meta on you. I wish he supplied this read with examples though. Sorta seems like TSP is thinking outloud with this one. Like I said run of the mill day 1 "throw something togehter" read.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

actual read: some of your posts this game have given me the impression that you're doing a sloonei impersonation

Stuff like this is what concerns me. I don't have to do a Sloonei "impression". There's a reason he and I are memed together so often. It's been this way as long as you've been here.

[Alison]

@Alison -

i'm trying to piece together how much of your concern toward me is stemming from the fact that i've been vocally suspicious about you throughout the game. you've mentioned several times that you take "issue" with some of my solving but you haven't (to my knowledge) provided any examples

why am i mixed?

Your at-least-one-scum POE feels like a salad. Your interactions with Esooa didn't garner much. Your idea that I would be self-conscious about voting in the timezone poll as a wolf doesn't seem logical. Yes I know that was directed at "a generic mafioso" but you opened the post by saying I, specifically, was a purposeful player, so it seemed like you were toggling between trying to predict me specifically and going off general principles. You had a case on be that was based on "Alison is a purposeful player, but I don't see the purpose in this post". I gave a fairly detailed explanation of the reasoning behind the post and how it served to reaction test Sloonei, but I don't see evidence of a shift in perspective from you, which I think would happen if that suspicion was genuine. I could see your interaction with nanook being buddying.

Each of these things is small, maybe even a nitpick. They add up though. I've found it difficult to vibe with a lot of the stuff you're saying in this thread. For instance I agree with you that BoKnows is mildly villagery but I'm not sure why you felt the need to present it as a spicy take when it really isn't. Against all this I weigh a post I think is really good (#662), and the fact that overall your reads are fairly close to mine and you seem to be pushing a similar world as me.

I guess I would summarize it as this, we seem to have fairly similar views of the game in terms of reads, but I haven't felt like we're moving together. I don't think it's a playstyle thing because I haven't had issues clicking with you in other games (eg. Radiohead). You're townie because of the first part of that (fairly similar views), but scummy because of the second (hard to vibe with you). So you're mixed.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[VOTE: tedxtr] aubergine

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Today's dumb read: the mild credit I can award to tedxtr feels like the stuff Wrong Jay says sometimes.

[TonyStarkPrime]

actual read: some of your posts this game have given me the impression that you're doing a sloonei impersonation

Stuff like this is what concerns me. I don't have to do a Sloonei "impression". There's a reason he and I are memed together so often. It's been this way as long as you've been here.

you are not the same person

[BoKnows]

@Alison -

i'm trying to piece together how much of your concern toward me is stemming from the fact that i've been vocally suspicious about you throughout the game. you've mentioned several times that you take "issue" with some of my solving but you haven't (to my knowledge) provided any examples

why am i mixed?

Your at-least-one-scum POE feels like a salad. Your interactions with Esooa didn't garner much. Your idea that I would be self-conscious about voting in the timezone poll as a wolf doesn't seem logical. Yes I know that was directed at "a generic mafioso" but you opened the post by saying I, specifically, was a purposeful player, so it seemed like you were toggling between trying to predict me specifically and going off general principles. You had a case on be that was based on "Alison is a purposeful player, but I don't see the purpose in this post". I gave a fairly detailed explanation of the reasoning behind the post and how it served to reaction test Sloonei, but I don't see evidence of a shift in perspective from you, which I think would happen if that suspicion was genuine. I could see your interaction with nanook being buddying.

Each of these things is small, maybe even a nitpick. They add up though. I've found it difficult to vibe with a lot of the stuff you're saying in this thread. For instance I agree with you that BoKnows is mildly villagery but I'm not sure why you felt the need to present it as a spicy take when it really isn't. Against all this I weigh a post I think is really good (#662), and the fact that overall your reads are fairly close to mine and you seem to be pushing a similar world as me.

I guess I would summarize it as this, we seem to have fairly similar views of the game in terms of reads, but I haven't felt like we're moving together. I don't think it's a playstyle thing because I haven't had issues clicking with you in other games (eg. Radiohead). You're townie because of the first part of that (fairly similar views), but scummy because of the second (hard to vibe with you). So you're mixed.

I don't necessarily agree with the second part being a scum tell. I think it's more of how you too are interprating the game.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Hesistate is perhaps bad word choice. I think you've been reticent more than I recall. Your views on tutuu (and your interaction on the subject with bo) and marmot seem weird

What are your own views on tutuu and Marmot? What were they when you initially stated your suspicion of me?

I had no read on marmot and thought it was weird that you picked up on (nanook?s) suspicion. I have a light TR on tutuu and did at that time as well, same as you.

Nanook had nothing to do with it. I'm not sure he had that suspicion. You might mean Mac -- if so, that's just a shared suspect, not "picking up on" anything. What's weird about my tutuu read if we share it?

I probably do mean Mac
The way you responded to Bo seemed off to me more than the read itself. The only thing weird about the tutuu read proper is I don't remember your justification but I don't need your justification.

[BoKnows]

you two*

[Alison]

Town: JJJ, MacDougall, Nanook, Oddmerta, Sloonei, Strawhenge, falcon45ca

It'd feel like a major victory for me to get sNookerdoodle into the top town pile. What sold you?

His posts seem completely devoid of agenda. When he's scum he tries to push people into thinking a certain way. He can get stubborn about pet reads when he's town and play entirely around them, and it's very easy to mimic that in order to influence the game thread when he is scum. He hasn't shown any interest in that here. I also think a dismissive/patronizing insistence that he's ridiculous obvtell and not getting why anyone would think otherwise is a mild towntell for him. It's too easily faked to rely on with any degree of certainty, but it's still something I think he does slightly more as town than scum, so it's the cherry on top my overall read of him. Just really good and relaxed vibes in general.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

actual read: some of your posts this game have given me the impression that you're doing a sloonei impersonation

Stuff like this is what concerns me. I don't have to do a Sloonei "impression". There's a reason he and I are memed together so often. It's been this way as long as you've been here.

you are not the same person

You're right that I am not Jay, but he and I still share enough similarities that players routinely confuse me for being him.

[BoKnows]

Hesistate is perhaps bad word choice. I think you've been reticent more than I recall. Your views on tutuu (and your interaction on the subject with bo) and marmot seem weird

What are your own views on tutuu and Marmot? What were they when you initially stated your suspicion of me?

I had no read on marmot and thought it was weird that you picked up on (nanook?s) suspicion. I have a light TR on tutuu and did at that time as well, same as you.

Nanook had nothing to do with it. I'm not sure he had that suspicion. You might mean Mac -- if so, that's just a shared suspect, not "picking up on" anything. What's weird about my tutuu read if we share it?

I probably do mean Mac
The way you responded to Bo seemed off to me more than the read itself. The only thing weird about the tutuu read proper is I don't remember your justification but I don't need your justification.

You probably mean Mac? How do you not know what you mean?

[staypositivefriend]

@Alison -

i'm trying to piece together how much of your concern toward me is stemming from the fact that i've been vocally suspicious about you throughout the game. you've mentioned several times that you take "issue" with some of my solving but you haven't (to my knowledge) provided any examples

why am i mixed?

Your at-least-one-scum POE feels like a salad. Your interactions with Esooa didn't garner much. Your idea that I would be self-conscious about voting in the timezone poll as a wolf doesn't seem logical. Yes I know that was directed at "a generic mafioso" but you opened the post by saying I, specifically, was a purposeful player, so it seemed like you were toggling between trying to predict me specifically and going off general principles. You had a case on be that was based on "Alison is a purposeful player, but I don't see the purpose in this post". I gave a fairly detailed explanation of the reasoning behind the post and how it served to reaction test Sloonei, but I don't see evidence of a shift in perspective from you, which I think would happen if that suspicion was genuine. I could see your interaction with nanook being buddying.

Each of these things is small, maybe even a nitpick. They add up though. I've found it difficult to vibe with a lot of the stuff you're saying in this thread. For instance I agree with you that BoKnows is mildly villagery but I'm not sure why you felt the need to present it as a spicy take when it really isn't. Against all this I weigh a post I think is really good (#662), and the fact that overall your reads are fairly close to mine and you seem to be pushing a similar world as me.

I guess I would summarize it as this, we seem to have fairly similar views of the game in terms of reads, but I haven't felt like we're moving together. I don't think it's a playstyle thing because I haven't had issues clicking with you in other games (eg. Radiohead). You're townie because of the first part of that (fairly similar views), but scummy because of the second (hard to vibe with you). So you're mixed.

to clarify, my feelings about your early post went like this:

1. alison makes a post that seems to carry a very specific agenda/purpose

2. i am unable to figure out what that specific agenda/purpose is

3. i start to wonder if alison made the post from a wolf perspective

4. if alison made the post from a wolf perspective, i theorize that it would come from her falling into the typical wolf trap of over-explaining her own actions

5. you explain yourself, and i drop the point

your post was clearly purposeful, but it was purposeful in a way that i could not understand from a town!Alison POV, which led me to theorize that you were playing from a wolf POV. there's nothing illogical about that, and i am unsure if you are harping on that point because it is genuinely bothering you or because you want an excuse to keep me out of your townpool.

i see no need to address the other points - but i find it odd that you throw shade on my interaction with esooa "not garnering much" when esooa was pressuring me about a point i felt that i had articulated several times already. what exactly did you expect it to garner?

[Alison]

actual read: some of your posts this game have given me the impression that you're doing a sloonei impersonation

Stuff like this is what concerns me. I don't have to do a Sloonei "impression". There's a reason he and I are memed together so often. It's been this way as long as you've been here.

you are not the same person

You're right that I am not Jay, but he and I still share enough similarities that players routinely confuse me for being him.

I like how Jay proved his point about being similar to Sloonei by mixing himself up with Sloonei in the post.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Hesistate is perhaps bad word choice. I think you've been reticent more than I recall. Your views on tutuu (and your interaction on the subject with bo) and marmot seem weird

What are your own views on tutuu and Marmot? What were they when you initially stated your suspicion of me?

I had no read on marmot and thought it was weird that you picked up on (nanook?s) suspicion. I have a light TR on tutuu and did at that time as well, same as you.

Nanook had nothing to do with it. I'm not sure he had that suspicion. You might mean Mac -- if so, that's just a shared suspect, not "picking up on" anything. What's weird about my tutuu read if we share it?

I probably do mean Mac
The way you responded to Bo seemed off to me more than the read itself. The only thing weird about the tutuu read proper is I don't remember your justification but I don't need your justification.

You probably mean Mac? How do you not know what you mean?

Jay. Darth Marmot. Can we kill him please?

i forgot who said the second thing

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Town: JJJ, MacDougall, Nanook, Oddmerta, Sloonei, Strawhenge, falcon45ca

It'd feel like a major victory for me to get sNookerdoodle into the top town pile. What sold you?

His posts seem completely devoid of agenda. When he's scum he tries to push people into thinking a certain way. He can get stubborn about pet reads when he's town and play entirely around them, and it's very easy to mimic that in order to influence the game thread when he is scum. He hasn't shown any interest in that here. I also think a dismissive/patronizing insistence that he's ridiculous obvtell and not getting why anyone would think otherwise is a mild towntell for him. It's too easily faked to rely on with any degree of certainty, but it's still something I think he does slightly more as town than scum, so it's the cherry on top my overall read of him. Just really good and relaxed vibes in general.

Cool beans. I don't think I read him well, so I can roll with it for now. I remember spectating GOC when folks were super suspicious of him, and to me he looked the same as ever.

[BoKnows]

Hesistate is perhaps bad word choice. I think you've been reticent more than I recall. Your views on tutuu (and your interaction on the subject with bo) and marmot seem weird

What are your own views on tutuu and Marmot? What were they when you initially stated your suspicion of me?

I had no read on marmot and thought it was weird that you picked up on (nanook?s) suspicion. I have a light TR on tutuu and did at that time as well, same as you.

Nanook had nothing to do with it. I'm not sure he had that suspicion. You might mean Mac -- if so, that's just a shared suspect, not "picking up on" anything. What's weird about my tutuu read if we share it?

I probably do mean Mac
The way you responded to Bo seemed off to me more than the read itself. The only thing weird about the tutuu read proper is I don't remember your justification but I don't need your justification.

You probably mean Mac? How do you not know what you mean?

Jay. Darth Marmot. Can we kill him please?

i forgot who said the second thing

[Alison]

your post was clearly purposeful, but it was purposeful in a way that i could not understand from a town!Alison POV, which led me to theorize that you were playing from a wolf POV. there's nothing illogical about that, and i am unsure if you are harping on that point because it is genuinely bothering you or because you want an excuse to keep me out of your townpool.

i see no need to address the other points - but i find it odd that you throw shade on my interaction with esooa "not garnering much" when esooa was pressuring me about a point i felt that i had articulated several times already. what exactly did you expect it to garner?

It's bothering me because it's the kind of accusation that wolves like to make about me to undermine me. Or to put it more simply it felt like a pretty blatant instance of you trying to cast shade based on sketchy reasoning. I don't think I'm harping on it really, I haven't pushed you for it, but it's something I take into consideration when I'm formulating my read on you. You're consistently acting as though I'm scummy but haven't done anything to really push me. That makes me uncomfortable with you because that behavioral pattern is pretty common when scum are trying to misexe me.

Re: the Esooa thing, it was just a messy, convoluted interactions that led to both sides sort of throwing their hands up, saying meh, and walking away. Given how close you two are I expected you'd find firmer footing on each other than that.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@staypositivefriend how d'ya think you'll wield your vote once you decide not to chop yourself?

[Alison]

SPF what do you think has been the towniest thing you've done so far this game? In a vacuum, what's the best reason to townread you?

[MacDougall]

I got a red peek on Nanook btw

I am reading this as w/w tbh

[staypositivefriend]

your post was clearly purposeful, but it was purposeful in a way that i could not understand from a town!Alison POV, which led me to theorize that you were playing from a wolf POV. there's nothing illogical about that, and i am unsure if you are harping on that point because it is genuinely bothering you or because you want an excuse to keep me out of your townpool.

i see no need to address the other points - but i find it odd that you throw shade on my interaction with esooa "not garnering much" when esooa was pressuring me about a point i felt that i had articulated several times already. what exactly did you expect it to garner?

It's bothering me because it's the kind of accusation that wolves like to make about me to undermine me. Or to put it more simply it felt like a pretty blatant instance of you trying to cast shade based on sketchy reasoning. I don't think I'm harping on it really, I haven't pushed you for it, but it's something I take into consideration when I'm formulating my read on you. You're consistently acting as though I'm scummy but haven't done anything to really push me. That makes me uncomfortable with you because that behavioral pattern is pretty common when scum are trying to misexe me.

Re: the Esooa thing, it was just a messy, convoluted interactions that led to both sides sort of throwing their hands up, saying meh, and walking away. Given how close you two are I expected you'd find firmer footing on each other than that.

i take no issue with you being concerned that i'm throwing shade on you in the way that a wolf typically would - the thing that concerns me is that i've felt that you have been misrepresenting and misinterpreting the point i made against you, instead of understanding it while still treating it with suspicion. "SPF is throwing shade on me in a way that wolves do" is fine, but "SPF's point is not logical" is not fine

i can't figure out if there's some type of communication breakdown happening with regards to that specific point, but i've felt that we have both failed to understand each other throughout this game, and that's made me more cautious about you and your intentions in general

i do find you mildly suspicious, but not to the extent that i'm interested in pushing on you. if you're town then you are almost certainly going to find a wolf and spew yourself as clear, and if you're a wolf then it's probably going to become more obvious based on the angles that you push. in any case, the best thing for me to do from a strategic POV is sit back and watch how your game develops

re: the esooa thing, our conversation about meta felt like a non-starter to me because it was so individualized to our personal experiences/meta, and i didn't feel that diving into the stuff that esooa was asking me about would help either of us read each other with more clarity. i do feel that me and her got closer to reaching common ground when we talked about jagged shortly after, though

[MacDougall]

I think that Tutuu, Jay and Alison are town. I am less confident about SPF and Sloonei but they certainly aren't driving anti town agenda to a point in which I feel compelled to solve them via threadkill.

[staypositivefriend]

@staypositivefriend how d'ya think you'll wield your vote once you decide not to chop yourself?

my vote would probably land on aL_sama, marmot, or ted right now. i honestly don't have a single name that i can point to as definitely being scum right now though - i moreso have the game divided between "probably town" and "probably not town"

[Sloonei]

I don't actually care all that much about spf's self vote and joke claim shenanigans. I just needed something to stir the pot with while phone posting at work.

I'll figure out what's happening and do something with my vote accordingly.

[MacDougall]

Right now I really just want to set fire to Marmot.

[Sloonei]

@staypositivefriend how d'ya think you'll wield your vote once you decide not to chop yourself?

my vote would probably land on aL_sama, marmot, or ted right now. i honestly don't have a single name that i can point to as definitely being scum right now though - i moreso have the game divided between "probably town" and "probably not town"

I also had a salad for dinner tonight.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Right now I really just want to set fire to Marmot.

I'm hearing set fire to the rain but its set fire to Marmot in my head now

[staypositivefriend]

@staypositivefriend how d'ya think you'll wield your vote once you decide not to chop yourself?

my vote would probably land on aL_sama, marmot, or ted right now. i honestly don't have a single name that i can point to as definitely being scum right now though - i moreso have the game divided between "probably town" and "probably not town"

I also had a salad for dinner tonight.

my number one takeaway from this game so far is that i don't understand what "salad" means :P

[JaggedJimmyJay]

This dialogue between SPF and Alison reminds me of some similar exchanges between SPF and Sloonei in Fallout 2. They seemed to harbor at least some mutual suspicions, but their communication tended to be low in overt animosity -- instead they each stated their highly nuanced and specific causes for suspicion, and along the way they both seemed to acknowledge that the intended communication didn't seem to be getting through. As a host in that game I got the impression that those two kinda figured one another to be civilians, but just wanted to really do their due diligence in a thorough discussion before allowing themselves to get there. Eventually they truced it out and ended up being town/town (or something like that in my weird game). I kinda get the same impression here with SPF/Alison, like there are mutual town reads struggling to spring out through a barrier of unease.

This is an extremely specific comparison, so it may mean little or nothing. Thought I'd share anyway.