Fargo Mafia [Game Ends]

[Alison]

I'm kind of not a fan of tutuu trying to strike a one-wolf dichotomy between SPF and fingersplints off this, especially since I would GTH townread both of them.

[tutuu]

[VOTE: fingersplints
] aubergine

this is a wolf. i will explain tomorrow. goodnight!

spf is right coz shes town and smart or spf is scum trying to widen the poe coz things arent looking good for her team

What about SPF being town and wrong?

Impossible

[Esooa]

@Sloonei you still up? What's your time zone? How are u?

[Esooa]

@Alison sorry I've not caught up to everything

Thoughts on my tutuu read?

[Esooa]

I am not 100% convinced KZA is mafia.

@MacDougall explain? I really don't like this read tbh

[Esooa]

I am not 100% convinced KZA is mafia.

I meant. Now convinced. He is mafia. Fucking typo.

cute af <3

[Alison]

why Alison

There are a few people capable of effortposting as scum to this degree. I don't know Strawhenge's scum range, but I think the base probability of someone's scum range being that large is low enough, and especially if the person in question has just come back from a multi year break and is feeling super overwhelmed by the game thread, that I am willing to effortclear Strawhenge for it. JJJ, who knows Strawhenge, also cleared Strawhenge right after the post, suggesting that he also believes that this is out of Strawhenge's scum range.

The post itself also has good content. Strawhenge makes insightful observations about non-obvious interactions in the game thread, eg. positing that BK could be distancing from KZA/Marmot after I accused them of faking an interaction. Good takes are townie. His final POE is reasonably aligned with my own reads, which gives me further confidence he is town, but not so strongly consensus that it looks like he's trying to blend in - he has a few outlier reads. These reads are well-supported by his analysis and observations. Even if I don't necessarily disagree with them, I think they come from a genuine place and weren't just stuck there to make himself look town.

[tutuu]

she is isnt she

shes also so quiet and quirky and adorable (kza)

[Alison]

Alison how're u feeling about the game in general? what do u think about bigger games with more pr's

also is ur pr crazy?

I'm feeling good now. Lots of reads I feel great about. A solid POE I can start exeing through.

My PR is not bastard.

[Esooa]

why Alison

There are a few people capable of effortposting as scum to this degree. I don't know Strawhenge's scum range, but I think the base probability of someone's scum range being that large is low enough, and especially if the person in question has just come back from a multi year break and is feeling super overwhelmed by the game thread, that I am willing to effortclear Strawhenge for it. JJJ, who knows Strawhenge, also cleared Strawhenge right after the post, suggesting that he also believes that this is out of Strawhenge's scum range.

The post itself also has good content. Strawhenge makes insightful observations about non-obvious interactions in the game thread, eg. positing that BK could be distancing from KZA/Marmot after I accused them of faking an interaction. Good takes are townie. His final POE is reasonably aligned with my own reads, which gives me further confidence he is town, but not so strongly consensus that it looks like he's trying to blend in - he has a few outlier reads. These reads are well-supported by his analysis and observations. Even if I don't necessarily disagree with them, I think they come from a genuine place and weren't just stuck there to make himself look town.

seems good to me what do you think of me?

[tutuu]

i have a crush on u @KZA

[Esooa]

i have a crush on u @KZA

relatable

[tedxtr]

alison - did you post the marmot case anywhere?

[Alison]

Green town, Pink towny but tinfoilable, Blue I have no idea, Red lock mafia

Thank you. Could you talk a little about your view of Alison? She is in a different position for you among your accusers.

I townread her for our earlier discussions but I'm feeling concerned about how she's trying to frame me as w/w with Marmot for some innocuous question

I also don't see the progression that led to her putting me as "highest chance of flipping scum" so I've asked her to talk about that

Would be a nice dialogue to hash out directly. @Alison

KZA has shown zero interest in solving unless he's being directly pressured, only cares about slots when they scumread him, had a pretty bad interaction with Marmot, and suspected Nanook for voting him without speaking to him, which is not something that I think is reasonable for town KZA to do.

[MacDougall]

Yea mafia is just a game u shouldnt take it so seriously and ppl who think theyre really good at it have opinions that are opposite of the truth, nobody is really good at mafia

come on now lol

Nobody has that much >rand accurate reads d00d, the only outcome of people thinking theyre good at the game is games ending up in toxicity / frustrations

It feels good to think ur good at the game and everyone has great games but nobody is consistently good at the game

that's not what you said tho lol

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

sry if I was rude @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

No worries, wouldn't expect different

[Alison]

alison - did you post the marmot case anywhere?

I suspect Marmot based on one interaction.

@KZA why are you so staunch in your townread of Sloonei?

I don't think I have been? I'm not worried about him right now so no reason to redact the read anyway

Maybe that wasn't the right word. I saw you called him town multiple times, but I couldn't find an explanation before.

His early case on Alison seemed like a reasonable Sloonei thought even if I didn't really agree with it

This is a reasonable KZA thought.

This interaction markets itself as being two townies doing solving and analyzing each other. However reading through it I can't find any evidence that either of them genuinely care about exposing the other's alignments. It's a bunch of play-acting and blowing smoke up town's asses.

[Alison]

You apparently know Odd better than most of us. What can you tell us about him? How do you read him in this game so far?

he feels townish but take this with a grain of salt since its hard to use meta on him

the vibes I m getting from his posts so far are that he is trying to gather reads by saying blunt things

I really hate this read.

why??

btw I m seeing that I m in most people's POE why?? is that

I know I haven't done much but I m trying to observer since I m not used to playing here

>>rand scum post.

Town knows what they did wrong and tries to put more effort into it and solve the game. Scum just wants heat off their back so they give an AtE and continue to slank.

[Esooa]

@Alison my drunk interpretation of your previous posts is that they're towny

I think I've been good at reading you recently

Do you agree?

[Alison]

spf ignoring my smart scumread on her means shes lock mafia outed

Your meta on SPF is wrong. The last game I played with her she buried a scum D1 and then got NKed for being obvtown.

You have been extremely anti-town for the last page or so since this post.

[Esooa]

sry if I was rude @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

No worries, wouldn't expect different

:PPPP

I dunno why I'm just always in conflict with you

Except for in the game Tim hosted where I was scum

So I suppose you should read me as obvious town hehe

[Alison]

@Alison my drunk interpretation of your previous posts is that they're towny

I think I've been good at reading you recently

Do you agree?

You've correctly townread me in our recent games yeah.

[Alison]

[VOTE: SPF] aubergine

Not a post that "I am town but I accept my own defeat, screw you all and have better reads next time" KZA makes.

Anti-spew KZA could make this post. Last ditch effort to flash wagon a townie KZA could make this post. Either way KZA is scum.

[tedxtr]

alison - did you post the marmot case anywhere?

I suspect Marmot based on one interaction.

@KZA why are you so staunch in your townread of Sloonei?

I don't think I have been? I'm not worried about him right now so no reason to redact the read anyway

Maybe that wasn't the right word. I saw you called him town multiple times, but I couldn't find an explanation before.

His early case on Alison seemed like a reasonable Sloonei thought even if I didn't really agree with it

This is a reasonable KZA thought.

This interaction markets itself as being two townies doing solving and analyzing each other. However reading through it I can't find any evidence that either of them genuinely care about exposing the other's alignments. It's a bunch of play-acting and blowing smoke up town's asses.

got it

and i'm fine with a kza vote since i had a few thoughts on that slot myself early on

[Esooa]

I'm sorry I can't remember and I can't look back

Ted, do you think KZA is scum? Why?

Alison, c'mon, does a holistic overview of KZA really tell you he is maifa? Why did he get mad that his tone being different - he is scum read, and give a believable excuse he wanted to be scum read, then go back to what is identical to his town game? I don't remember the other obv!town things he did rn, but his tone CLEARLY change in a way he, himself, manipulated, which he HAS NOT, to my knowledge, done in his scum game, leading me to believe it was done in his town game

[Alison]

@Alison and jimmy u should townread kza for the hypocrisy here its mega towny

and @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME u too slave

well to be precise its not fully hypocrisy since kza is being facetous in this post, he was just looking for a funny response to spf calling his scumread on her ugly for some reason. but like. 10% hypocrisy maybe. or 5%. u get the point. sheep me fluffy sheep

Hypocrisy is scummy, not townie.

[KZA]

i have a crush on u @KZA

i have a crush on u @KZA

relatable

[Esooa]

Alison I don't recall you answering, what's your current Tutuu read, and what did you think of mine?

[Alison]

I'm sorry I can't remember and I can't look back

Ted, do you think KZA is scum? Why?

Alison, c'mon, does a holistic overview of KZA really tell you he is maifa? Why did he get mad that his tone being different - he is scum read, and give a believable excuse he wanted to be scum read, then go back to what is identical to his town game? I don't remember the other obv!town things he did rn, but his tone CLEARLY change in a way he, himself, manipulated, which he HAS NOT, to my knowledge, done in his scum game, leading me to believe it was done in his town game

I don't get this. KZA's tone change was probably decided on pre-rand. If he is scum then he is tilted he is being caught for the wrong reasons - based on his difference in tone when he knows privately that's NAI.

[KZA]

alison - did you post the marmot case anywhere?

I suspect Marmot based on one interaction.

@KZA why are you so staunch in your townread of Sloonei?

I don't think I have been? I'm not worried about him right now so no reason to redact the read anyway

Maybe that wasn't the right word. I saw you called him town multiple times, but I couldn't find an explanation before.

His early case on Alison seemed like a reasonable Sloonei thought even if I didn't really agree with it

This is a reasonable KZA thought.

This interaction markets itself as being two townies doing solving and analyzing each other. However reading through it I can't find any evidence that either of them genuinely care about exposing the other's alignments. It's a bunch of play-acting and blowing smoke up town's asses.

I don't know why I have to w/w with Marmot for answering his question which is literally all I did there but w/e

[Esooa]

KZA's tone change was probably decided on pre-rand.

I don't think KZA is a player which can do this kinda thing. Do you?

[Alison]

Alison I don't recall you answering, what's your current Tutuu read, and what did you think of mine?

This is my read on you:

Because you've spent more time arguing fruitlessly about mafia theory than trying to put your hand in to influence the game.

do nothing = obvious town

easy game

Not quite.

You're reasonably present in the thread, and actively engaging in the game. You aren't hiding from the rest of the game and trying to slip under the radar. At the same time you aren't trying to hard push miselims or pocket/buddy up with anyone. I can't think of any slot which would make sense as a pocket victim for you. I think in this player list especially you would be eager to influence the game strongly and try to tilt things in a favorable direction if you were mafia. As it is you are concerned with making sure your voice is heard but you aren't overtly trying to steer the game. That's pretty townie.

I think tutuu has been seriously anti-town this game and has scumtold quite a bit. I am mostly holding off on her because of Mac stuff and because I see other slots as being equally scummy or scummier than her.

[Alison]

KZA's tone change was probably decided on pre-rand.

I don't think KZA is a player which can do this kinda thing. Do you?

I definitely think he's capable of doing that. It doesn't seem like a particularly difficult thing to do. "I'm tired of always being POE'd, I wanna start acting more like a serious mafia people so people take me seriously." And then you get scumread for that, and get upset.

[KZA]

[VOTE: SPF] aubergine

Not a post that "I am town but I accept my own defeat, screw you all and have better reads next time" KZA makes.

Anti-spew KZA could make this post. Last ditch effort to flash wagon a townie KZA could make this post. Either way KZA is scum.

You have never met any of those KZAs

[Esooa]

I aksed for your tyhoughts on my tutuu read, not me, @Alison

[tutuu]

Yea mafia is just a game u shouldnt take it so seriously and ppl who think theyre really good at it have opinions that are opposite of the truth, nobody is really good at mafia

come on now lol

Nobody has that much >rand accurate reads d00d, the only outcome of people thinking theyre good at the game is games ending up in toxicity / frustrations

It feels good to think ur good at the game and everyone has great games but nobody is consistently good at the game

that's not what you said tho lol

What i said in the first post didnt mean "people who think theyre good at mafia are bad at mafia" i meant what i said in the second post

[Esooa]

KZA's tone change was probably decided on pre-rand.

I don't think KZA is a player which can do this kinda thing. Do you?

I definitely think he's capable of doing that. It doesn't seem like a particularly difficult thing to do. "I'm tired of always being POE'd, I wanna start acting more like a serious mafia people so people take me seriously." And then you get scumread for that, and get upset.

I basically open every game with town!kza with a confident town read that I shield him for... from memory

@KZA yes, right?

Idk why he would change that with me here, with that in mind

[tutuu]

@Alison and jimmy u should townread kza for the hypocrisy here its mega towny

and @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME u too slave

well to be precise its not fully hypocrisy since kza is being facetous in this post, he was just looking for a funny response to spf calling his scumread on her ugly for some reason. but like. 10% hypocrisy maybe. or 5%. u get the point. sheep me fluffy sheep

Hypocrisy is scummy, not townie.

Wrong

[KZA]

KZA's tone change was probably decided on pre-rand.

I don't think KZA is a player which can do this kinda thing. Do you?

I definitely think he's capable of doing that. It doesn't seem like a particularly difficult thing to do. "I'm tired of always being POE'd, I wanna start acting more like a serious mafia people so people take me seriously." And then you get scumread for that, and get upset.

I basically open every game with town!kza with a confident town read that I shield him for... from memory

@KZA yes, right?

Idk why he would change that with me here, with that in mind

you found me basically instantly in Fallout 2 and I think before the end of D1 in Spiderverse

[Esooa]

@tutuu is this how you play as town, smh

You know, you need to make your takes more readable if you wanna have reasonable thread presence

[tutuu]

Alison I don't recall you answering, what's your current Tutuu read, and what did you think of mine?

This is my read on you:

Because you've spent more time arguing fruitlessly about mafia theory than trying to put your hand in to influence the game.

do nothing = obvious town

easy game

Not quite.

You're reasonably present in the thread, and actively engaging in the game. You aren't hiding from the rest of the game and trying to slip under the radar. At the same time you aren't trying to hard push miselims or pocket/buddy up with anyone. I can't think of any slot which would make sense as a pocket victim for you. I think in this player list especially you would be eager to influence the game strongly and try to tilt things in a favorable direction if you were mafia. As it is you are concerned with making sure your voice is heard but you aren't overtly trying to steer the game. That's pretty townie.

I think tutuu has been seriously anti-town this game and has scumtold quite a bit. I am mostly holding off on her because of Mac stuff and because I see other slots as being equally scummy or scummier than her.

People playing in a way u dont like and having different reads from u doesnt make them anti town

[Esooa]

KZA's tone change was probably decided on pre-rand.

I don't think KZA is a player which can do this kinda thing. Do you?

I definitely think he's capable of doing that. It doesn't seem like a particularly difficult thing to do. "I'm tired of always being POE'd, I wanna start acting more like a serious mafia people so people take me seriously." And then you get scumread for that, and get upset.

I basically open every game with town!kza with a confident town read that I shield him for... from memory

@KZA yes, right?

Idk why he would change that with me here, with that in mind

you found me basically instantly in Fallout 2 and I think before the end of D1 in Spiderverse

mhm mhm, and pretty much right away once you changed tone in this game, hm?

Well, I get the frustration you have with being scum read for trying to act more 'towny,' give more cohesive reads in general, I actually just this game realized my meta I want to cultivate this game; someone who's interactions are generally made to generate content more than actually provide in depth reads. I was scum read for it at the start of this game but I kept with it and gave towny thought processes and at this point I feel strongly town read, eh?

[tutuu]

@tutuu is this how you play as town, smh

You know, you need to make your takes more readable if you wanna have reasonable thread presence

They seem pretty readable to me

Why are people telling me how to play before weve even see who is accurate and who isnt, that seems preemptive

[Esooa]

@tutuu is this how you play as town, smh

You know, you need to make your takes more readable if you wanna have reasonable thread presence

They seem pretty readable to me

Why are people telling me how to play before weve even see who is accurate and who isnt, that seems preemptive

becuase I'm just that good

and besides, I'm just trying to talk to people right now

Do you want to tlak more? wanna know the problem I Have with your posts?

[Esooa]

like... my problem is independent of your read accuracy anyways. It's not about that. It's about your thread presence

[tutuu]

sure

[Esooa]

sure

well, I read your posts and I just go... what is she saying? What are her reads? You give them two-five words, but when you actively engage in thread, I see no,,, flow? I don't think there's a problem with the way you go about reading people, I actually like it. I'm thinking about this myself so it's not fully cohesive, but, like, one thing I've been thinking recently is, people just can't follow all this?

When I started playing mafia, I was CONFIDENT in my reads, and I pushed them

No one wants to hear that though

What they want to hear is, idk, everything

but not everything?

You can't write a wall case, but you can't just throw out reasons which *make sense* to you, but aren't completely known to people.

Basically... you need to question people in thread about things you want to know, and push them on it

But when you want a read to have influence: You push it throughout, and give it in a way that can be read by someone who knows next to nothing to mafia

So that people can follow your thought process, cause people don't exactly follow each track, they all have unique stylistic differences

Idk how to explain but

While your thoughts make sense, everything goes about things differently; and while explaining it all would work, people just can't take in that much information

You need to separate yourself when possible into micro interactions which will motivate people to talk about things more

And macro that will cause people to think about your reads more and believe them

etcetcetc

Idk if I'm explaining it the best!!!

But this approach to reads is the most generally applicable imo

While this game I think you've had, *followable* thought processes, but messy, too much to follow while matching 20 other players, and you've not had any reads that I actually wanted to mull over, consider becuase of the way you gave me new thoughts

y'know?

[Alison]

People playing in a way u dont like and having different reads from u doesnt make them anti town

No you're anti-town because you're giving reads that are heavily against thread consensus without bothering to explain them. If you wanna make against the grain reads ok, have the decency to explain why you think so or you're just trolling the thread.

[tutuu]

The reads i care about the most - jpic and kza town i believe i explained in detail

The bo knows post count read theres nothing much to say

If i wanted people to sheep my other reads i would have elaborated more on them

[Alison]

KZA's tone change was probably decided on pre-rand.

I don't think KZA is a player which can do this kinda thing. Do you?

I definitely think he's capable of doing that. It doesn't seem like a particularly difficult thing to do. "I'm tired of always being POE'd, I wanna start acting more like a serious mafia people so people take me seriously." And then you get scumread for that, and get upset.

I basically open every game with town!kza with a confident town read that I shield him for... from memory

@KZA yes, right?

Idk why he would change that with me here, with that in mind

Because he wants to change the way he plays, or because he wants to get townread by other people in the thread. His old tone might have allowed you to get there on him but it hasn't allowed other people to townread him. Also he might believe that you are good at reading him regardless of what his tone is.

Finally... if you think KZA wouldn't change his tone on purpose, well, he said he did, so was he lying?