Fargo Mafia [Game Ends]

[Esooa]

The reads i care about the most - jpic and kza town i believe i explained in detail

The bo knows post count read theres nothing much to say

If i wanted people to sheep my other reads i would have elaborated more on them

I'm not paying that much attention and drunk but yeah

[Alison]

The reads i care about the most - jpic and kza town i believe i explained in detail

The bo knows post count read theres nothing much to say

If i wanted people to sheep my other reads i would have elaborated more on them

The reads I have an issue with from you are stuff like "Strawhenge scum and I won't explain why!" or "SPF scum because she's too townie!" and "SPF can't be town and wrong!"

[tutuu]

People playing in a way u dont like and having different reads from u doesnt make them anti town

No you're anti-town because you're giving reads that are heavily against thread consensus without bothering to explain them. If you wanna make against the grain reads ok, have the decency to explain why you think so or you're just trolling the thread.

I have explained my bo and kza and jpic townreads, have the decency to read my posts ot youre just trolling

Making reads against thread consensus are anti town only if thread consensus is correct

I would not be so cocky to assume that my reads are correct and people who disagree with me are anti town, that seems gross

[tutuu]

The reads i care about the most - jpic and kza town i believe i explained in detail

The bo knows post count read theres nothing much to say

If i wanted people to sheep my other reads i would have elaborated more on them

The reads I have an issue with from you are stuff like "Strawhenge scum and I won't explain why!" or "SPF scum because she's too townie!" and "SPF can't be town and wrong!"

Well ignore those reads i dont care about them being readable and sheepable

[Alison]

Vague note:

I don't care for the previous page of this game thread. It felt a little disruptive to what has otherwise been a very good, steady, pro-town progression. So I picked someone in it to vote for. Marmot is POE. Marmot contributed directly to the mass goofing. Marmot ties Oddmerta, who I think is a poor elimination.

Good take.

[Esooa]

@Alison do you want to talk about any reads with me?

[Alison]

The reads i care about the most - jpic and kza town i believe i explained in detail

The bo knows post count read theres nothing much to say

If i wanted people to sheep my other reads i would have elaborated more on them

The reads I have an issue with from you are stuff like "Strawhenge scum and I won't explain why!" or "SPF scum because she's too townie!" and "SPF can't be town and wrong!"

Well ignore those reads i dont care about them being readable and sheepable

I don't care about your JPIC or KZA reads. That was fine. I don't agree with you on KZA because you've said that you think hypocrisy is townie before (and been wrong about it, ftr), so it's consistent and understandable. But you don't get to throw a bunch of garbage takes into the thread without explaining why (or giving a very poor explanation), then later on backtrack and say "actually I didn't intend any of you to believe me on any of that shit" and claim you haven't been anti-town. If half your reads are legible and the other half are illegible then even if you only intended us to "read and sheep" the first half, then the second half is at best spam for us to sort through and at worst an intentional attempt to misdirect us or lay out bad wagons to bait us into following.

[Alison]

@Alison do you want to talk about any reads with me?

I'm in the process of catching up atm, I'm trying to respond to questions slung at me realtime so I'd prefer to finish the catchup before opening a third line of discussion.

[Esooa]

awhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ok

[tutuu]

Calling my takes garbage is too much and uncalled for

Its just a game that u take way too seriously and u become abrasive as a result

[Alison]

My only experience of marmot is that he is silly when mafia and pretty serious when town. My sample size is only three games so I acknowledge i need more data.

This is true based on the one game I saw him as Mafia

Which game was that?

Shadow Corridors

he was known as Thundercat, some sort of villainous alter ego of his I'm sure

Alright, i may read that game sometime tomorrow if i have time

This post from JPIC is townie if he follows up on it. Did he?

[Esooa]

My only experience of marmot is that he is silly when mafia and pretty serious when town. My sample size is only three games so I acknowledge i need more data.

This is true based on the one game I saw him as Mafia

Which game was that?

Shadow Corridors

he was known as Thundercat, some sort of villainous alter ego of his I'm sure

Alright, i may read that game sometime tomorrow if i have time

This post from JPIC is townie if he follows up on it. Did he?

why

[Alison]

Calling my takes garbage is too much and uncalled for

Its just a game that u take way too seriously and u become abrasive as a result

What do you mean way too much? It isn't a personal attack, so it clearly doesn't step over conduct lines. I think your reads are bad, I make that opinion clear, and you respond by AtEing at me. If you wanna call that abrasive or think that I take mafia too seriously because I try my best to play well then go ahead, but there's a reason that people tend to follow my reads more than yours and it's because I make my reasoning for those reads transparent and logical. If you refuse to explain your most against-consensus reads then nobody will agree with you on them, and complaining about how you're being discriminated against just because you don't agree with the rest of the thread doesn't help town get there on mafia. So you're anti-town.

[Alison]

My only experience of marmot is that he is silly when mafia and pretty serious when town. My sample size is only three games so I acknowledge i need more data.

This is true based on the one game I saw him as Mafia

Which game was that?

Shadow Corridors

he was known as Thundercat, some sort of villainous alter ego of his I'm sure

Alright, i may read that game sometime tomorrow if i have time

This post from JPIC is townie if he follows up on it. Did he?

why

I don't think it's within JPIC's scum range to actually read an entire second game to figure out if Marmot is scum when if he's mafia he already knows the answer to that question.

[Esooa]

I still don't know what alison thinks aboutr my tutuu read

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Arguments about what is and isn't anti town are, in fact, in and of themselves anti town

[Justplayingitcool]

Calling my takes garbage is too much and uncalled for

Its just a game that u take way too seriously and u become abrasive as a result

@KZA

Here is the tutuu frustration mentioned earlier. Do you believe it?

[Justplayingitcool]

My only experience of marmot is that he is silly when mafia and pretty serious when town. My sample size is only three games so I acknowledge i need more data.

This is true based on the one game I saw him as Mafia

Which game was that?

Shadow Corridors

he was known as Thundercat, some sort of villainous alter ego of his I'm sure

Alright, i may read that game sometime tomorrow if i have time

This post from JPIC is townie if he follows up on it. Did he?

I did not. I plan on doing it today, maybe

[Alison]

I still don't know what alison thinks aboutr my tutuu read

What is your tutuu read?

[Alison]

Arguments about what is and isn't anti town are, in fact, in and of themselves anti town

Probably!

[Justplayingitcool]

Basically it depends if im feeling lazy

[Alison]

I think KZA's recent play has seemed decent. I want to keep the standards high here so I'm still thinking on that read.

I don't think I am comfortable with BoKnows, and post count doesn't move me much.

Which posts swayed you?

[Esooa]

I still don't know what alison thinks aboutr my tutuu read

What is your tutuu read?

Tutuu likes playing scum more than town, so she would try more as scum. She has no reason as scum to go for cheap town reads; making typos, saying she isn't reading the game, etc

She didn't do this in bread mafia or overtime mafia, etc

She played a more traditional game with Tutuu towny energy

I think her not caring as much about this game is distinctly towny

[KZA]

Calling my takes garbage is too much and uncalled for

Its just a game that u take way too seriously and u become abrasive as a result

@KZA

Here is the tutuu frustration mentioned earlier. Do you believe it?

Yes, although I would not like to get involved there

[Justplayingitcool]

Calling my takes garbage is too much and uncalled for

Its just a game that u take way too seriously and u become abrasive as a result

@KZA

Here is the tutuu frustration mentioned earlier. Do you believe it?

Yes, although I would not like to get involved there

Understandable

[Esooa]

both the top wagons are town

Fix it

[Alison]

I still don't know what alison thinks aboutr my tutuu read

What is your tutuu read?

Tutuu likes playing scum more than town, so she would try more as scum. She has no reason as scum to go for cheap town reads; making typos, saying she isn't reading the game, etc

She didn't do this in bread mafia or overtime mafia, etc

She played a more traditional game with Tutuu towny energy

I think her not caring as much about this game is distinctly towny

It's a reasonable point. It could be true.

I don't townread her frustration because she intentionally AtE as mafia and I know this. Your point that she has no reason as scum to go for cheap townreads via typos or not reading or whatever is logical. I currently have tutuu as just above the upper POE on the strength of this and Mac vouching for her.

[Alison]

both the top wagons are town

Fix it

I currently think KZA is a wolf but I haven't read the last 11 pages yet.

However unless he revealed as innocent child I will vote him any day of the week to save Oddmerta, who I strongly believe to be town.

[Alison]

I hesitate to give Marmot town credit for the adverb suspicion. It's an available gripe to anyone that knows Epignosis, and it's an easy one to fake.

Yeah.

[Alison]

I am inclined to read TSP as town, but having just watched him in Fallout I am unable to commit to it.

the fact that i find TSP considerably wolfier than i found him in Fallout is actually giving me a little bit of pause about his alignment - it's been making me wonder if he sounds wolfier as town because he's trying less hard to filter himself. i am not sure what to do with the majority of his posts

On policy I don't believe in "X is scummy when town and townie when scum" style meta reads. I have observed them to have a very low accuracy rate and in general I think they are an illogical way of viewing the world.

[Alison]

For much the same reasons I don't believe in things like TWTBW.

[Esooa]

For much the same reasons I don't believe in things like TWTBW.

I respect it

[Alison]

@everyone: tutuu is mafia.

Agree or disagree?

My feeling on her has been flipping back and forth today. Right now I'm going to say no. Mainly because she's coming across as care free and is going with the flow. It's frustrating trying to get information out of her which I don't like though.

"carefree" is tutuu's M.O., but I've felt a few times like she's straining to pull that off this game. I'm not totally sure I see her "going with the flow" though. What do you mean when you say that she's doing that?

I don't think tutuu is always carefree. At the very least I don't think an absence of carefree-ness is a good way to read tutuu.

[Alison]

ask me anything!

What about AL_sama do you think pushes them into the red instead of being null?

it's almost entirely this post: https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 80#p761880

i am always skeptical when people who seem disengaged from the thread are able to pull out comprehensive readslists out of the blue

Good take.

[tutuu]

Calling my takes garbage is too much and uncalled for

Its just a game that u take way too seriously and u become abrasive as a result

What do you mean way too much? It isn't a personal attack, so it clearly doesn't step over conduct lines. I think your reads are bad, I make that opinion clear, and you respond by AtEing at me. If you wanna call that abrasive or think that I take mafia too seriously because I try my best to play well then go ahead, but there's a reason that people tend to follow my reads more than yours and it's because I make my reasoning for those reads transparent and logical. If you refuse to explain your most against-consensus reads then nobody will agree with you on them, and complaining about how you're being discriminated against just because you don't agree with the rest of the thread doesn't help town get there on mafia. So you're anti-town.

I am not complaining that people arent following my reads though am i?

All im asking is for people (namely you) to be less rude. Or tell me how to play. I dont think its hard to figure out telling someone that their takes are garbage would make them feel bad. You can voice your disagreement with lots of other less extreme and abrasive words

[Alison]

Is "tutuu sought to generate chaos because she and her team are getting boxed in" a legitimate read, or the kind of thing civilians think happens but mafia barely ever actually do?

The latter

[Alison]

Calling my takes garbage is too much and uncalled for

Its just a game that u take way too seriously and u become abrasive as a result

What do you mean way too much? It isn't a personal attack, so it clearly doesn't step over conduct lines. I think your reads are bad, I make that opinion clear, and you respond by AtEing at me. If you wanna call that abrasive or think that I take mafia too seriously because I try my best to play well then go ahead, but there's a reason that people tend to follow my reads more than yours and it's because I make my reasoning for those reads transparent and logical. If you refuse to explain your most against-consensus reads then nobody will agree with you on them, and complaining about how you're being discriminated against just because you don't agree with the rest of the thread doesn't help town get there on mafia. So you're anti-town.

I am not complaining that people arent following my reads though am i?

All im asking is for people (namely you) to be less rude. Or tell me how to play. I dont think its hard to figure out telling someone that their takes are garbage would make them feel bad. You can voice your disagreement with lots of other less extreme and abrasive words

I am going to tell you how to play if I think the way you are playing is anti-town. Multiple other people have voiced that your insistence on being erratic with your reads and reasoning is scummy in their eyes, hard to follow, causing chaos, disrupting a cooperative and productive thread state, etc. If multiple people find your reads hard to understand and consider you to be an active impediment to solving then you should re-examine your own play and maybe stop whatever it is you're doing that causes that.

[Alison]

This is like when you insisted on self-voting for no reason. You don't even think it helps you push your win condition forward, you just do it because your pride is wounded by other people telling you that it's a bad idea. It's driven by pure emotion and doesn't do anything to expose the mafia or help town get there on you.

[Alison]

Is "tutuu sought to generate chaos because she and her team are getting boxed in" a legitimate read, or the kind of thing civilians think happens but mafia barely ever actually do?

I think there are players out there who would seek to do this if they were mafia. I do not know enough about tutuu's game to say that she's one of them.

I think it's a play mafia make sometimes but like for every time it's a real play mafia try to make, there are 20 false accusations of mafia doing it.

[fingersplints]

Now imagine the opposite: a game where everyone’s town! What an experience that would be.

Too soon

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I would chop Long Con, Marmot, AL_sama, or maybe tedxtr

[Alison]

Vote: michelle

Bad post.

[Alison]

tutuu completely dodged the question when i asked her to clarify the reasons why she townread me, even though she knew i was suspicious about her read on me. i feel like tutuu as a wolf would be more likely to come up w/some fake reason instead of just going "i'm not telling!"

she is either doing a way over the top "why would mafia do that" act or is just town

probably just town at this point idk

I have stewed on my tutuu read and I have decided she is GTH town because Esooa's point about her is logical, Mac is shielding her and has a high townshield accuracy, and she seems to be falling into patterns I have previously observed from her as town. I townread her in 7th Saga despite being extremely annoyed by her play because of this, and I was right.

[Alison]

Everyone >1000 posted in the GoC.

I didn't.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@Alison, you asked what I found decent from KZA. I’m on my phone so it’s difficult to extract quotes, but I’ll summarize. I do think there has been some measure of incisive hunting/solving sprinkled into the less meaningful “I suck” posts dismissive of the game.

I thought his grievance with SPF looked alright, that her array of five suspects was KZA himself plus four low posters. That’s not a bad thing to poke, even if I don’t agree with the conclusion. More recently I’ve appreciated his willingness to stand in defense of Michelle in an otherwise constricted state that offers few enough low-content players to beef with.

It’s not a confident matter. I’ve kept KZA in my POE pool. I’m not sure he’s the best chop on the board though.

[Alison]

Yea mafia is just a game u shouldnt take it so seriously and ppl who think theyre really good at it have opinions that are opposite of the truth, nobody is really good at mafia

This sounds like a claim that can be mathematically proven wrong.

[Alison]

@Alison, you asked what I found decent from KZA. I’m on my phone so it’s difficult to extract quotes, but I’ll summarize. I do think there has been some measure of incisive hunting/solving sprinkled into the less meaningful “I suck” posts dismissive of the game.

I thought his grievance with SPF looked alright, that her array of five suspects was KZA himself plus four low posters. That’s not a bad thing to poke, even if I don’t agree with the conclusion. More recently I’ve appreciated his willingness to stand in defense of Michelle in an otherwise constricted state that offers few enough low-content players to beef with.

It’s not a confident matter. I’ve kept KZA in my POE pool. I’m not sure he’s the best chop on the board though.

I have seen a few stabs at doing some solving from KZA but nothing that bowls me over. I am concerned by the amount of resistance to his wagon for reasons that do not inspire me, and I note that all of my strongest townreads nobody seems willing to say anything more than "I guess he can be upper POE instead of lower POE".

I am taking your point about his defense instead of Michelle into consideration. I personally think that if I was a POE'd scum in this gamestate I would view a push onto Michelle as a trap; it seems fairly clear that a lot of loud, obvious town players are or will be willing to leap to her defense, and she also has an exceptionally high ability to clear herself, leaving you looking extremely bad afterwards. I don't fully agree that the gamestate is constricted: out of [Al sama, ted, Marmot, LC, JPIC, Dom, BoKnows], at least some of these have to be town and I think they're reasonably easy for a POE'd scum to redirect the exe to that doesn't offer as high a risk of backfire as trying to attack Michelle.

[Alison]

@Alison, you asked what I found decent from KZA. I’m on my phone so it’s difficult to extract quotes, but I’ll summarize. I do think there has been some measure of incisive hunting/solving sprinkled into the less meaningful “I suck” posts dismissive of the game.

I thought his grievance with SPF looked alright, that her array of five suspects was KZA himself plus four low posters. That’s not a bad thing to poke, even if I don’t agree with the conclusion. More recently I’ve appreciated his willingness to stand in defense of Michelle in an otherwise constricted state that offers few enough low-content players to beef with.

It’s not a confident matter. I’ve kept KZA in my POE pool. I’m not sure he’s the best chop on the board though.

I have seen a few stabs at doing some solving from KZA but nothing that bowls me over. I am concerned by the amount of resistance to his wagon for reasons that do not inspire me, and I note that all of my strongest townreads nobody seems willing to say anything more than "I guess he can be upper POE instead of lower POE".

I am taking your point about his defense instead of Michelle into consideration. I personally think that if I was a POE'd scum in this gamestate I would view a push onto Michelle as a trap; it seems fairly clear that a lot of loud, obvious town players are or will be willing to leap to her defense, and she also has an exceptionally high ability to clear herself, leaving you looking extremely bad afterwards. I don't fully agree that the gamestate is constricted: out of [Al sama, ted, Marmot, LC, JPIC, Dom, BoKnows], at least some of these have to be town and I think they're reasonably easy for a POE'd scum to redirect the exe to that doesn't offer as high a risk of backfire as trying to attack Michelle.

Correction: Esooa is standing in KZA's defense, so scratch that point out.

@Esooa are you reading KZA as town solely because you don't think he'd change his tone if he's mafia, or do you have other reasons?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Are there reasons, however small, to keep Long Con or AL_sama alive?

[Esooa]

Are there reasons, however small, to keep Long Con or AL_sama alive?

long con: Easily readable with more content imo

Al: new player lol