Beelzebub The Benign scum win

[BoKnows]

And just because Esooa flipped town doens't mean that you're green too.

[Samusamu]

I still want to check what gavial says what happens if he breaks the pact.

Now I also find no reason for you to vote for me anymore and when I have asked every player in game to first tell his reads calmly who is his core, who he distrusts etc to see how his read development progresses in game.

What I can't accept is this kind of actions where ego can to reason and all town players suffer from dunning kruger syndrome.

Right now I'm trying to delve into gavial's accusation to falcon, what happens if he doesn't keep the pact, can he be modkill? Can that be the reason why doom received modkill?

I have so many questions to clarify to understand certain parts of the game that when I'm wanting to go deeper and understand the development and approach of the game that if I don't get this off my chest now by writing this to the two stone eaters who voted for me I'm going to want to strangle someone in the next half hour.

This is what you are doing is being complete idiots.

What pact? I'll get you a list of my reads. What dunning kruger syndrome? I don't think the dunning kruger exists in mafia. Gavial won't be mod killed for lying about his red peek. I think Gavial is trying to be manipulative to get falcon voted out. Which in itself is scummy asf, but the reasons to town read Gavial vastly outweigh that. DOOM probably got modkilled for talking about another live game in this game, but that's the end of that conversation. What are your questions?

What makes scum to you?

What makes me top poe instead knowing of who gavial/falcon is lying about the red cop?

This to begin with.

What makes me scum to you?*

Night 1 EoD still leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

Right now I have to scum hunt in Urist, Samu, Falcon, and TSP. Out of those 4 I think Urist is the most towny. Out of the remaining three all of your guy's play has been similar enough, but it all comes back to that bad play on N1.

How unvoting and voting an afk that were killed the same night is a bad play in a scum way.

Please, everybody reflect on this.

I have been accused that my unvote and vote for jessie was mafia because thatoa had cfd HK.

Right now we know that esooa was town and his cfd was genuine in thinking hk was town.

We also know that marmot shot hk before the end of the day therefore his lynch could no longer happen.

I at that point had stopped being in the game to be with my partner.

What would have changed if I didn't unvote hk? The answer is nothing since the cfd from esooa to marmot happened regardless of what I said or did, moreover I had tried minutes before to check how people saw a wagon a long con and get reads, but I never participated in the cfd to marmot.

Do you think if I am mafia with hk before hk has been shot by marmot does it make any sense for me to leave the game and not defend hk that way?

This is the d1 count

Marmot (3*): urist, esooa, gavial
Esooa (2): Marmot, doom
Samu (1): LC
Jessiekruger (1): Samu
Sean (1): falcon
Not voting (5): bo*, sean*, jessiekruger, tsp, Alison

Tell me now, what makes my vote for jessie more scum than urist's vote to finish off marmot?

You didn't even end up voting and when I was still and proposed LC you even joined pretty quickly without giving much explanation that wagon you joined would also save HK, isn't that also a terrible bad move?

When esooa was still alive and thought he was mafia he could accept that my move was bad and that if esooa made flip scum, I would go after because it's easy for a scum to make a case through my eod.

But this was not the case, despite esooa having made town flip, urist and now you have continued like a fly in summer insisting and insisting like a light and slight buzz throughout the thread that samu is mafia because his move in the eod is bad.

And since samu's move is bad, then samu is mafia. This argument is circular starts where it ends and ends where it starts but there is no real reasoning behind it.

I'm going to say it very clearly, you don't have the balls to explain why a scum samu would make that vote move in the d1 eod and not just any other move nor do you have the balls to say why that move is more scumness than other players with current game information.

I ended that day on HK

Thats all?

Marmot shoot hk cause his wagon on hk was dissappearing, meanwhile you were voting falcon for two pages, that also helps esooa to make the wagon to marmot possible.

If u were mafia cant your vote finally be in a hk knowing that he will be shooted or not lynched letting the wagon to marmot get strong?

What you have just read is a reflection on a world where I imagine you as a mafia and giving meaning to your actions.

I repeat, you have no balls, because you haven't really stopped to think why a mafia samu would make that move in the eod.

Or because you might finally be mafia and until now you hadn't needed to reason it out because everyone agreed with the idea that samu's eod on day 1 was scum.

As I said that argument is circular like the fish that bites its own tail.

It could get to sustain something in a world where esooa was mafia since from your iso I've seen that you conclude that samu mafia because of his eod since he helps esooa mafia to make a cfd against marmot.

From the moment esooa has died and made flip town you haven't even made a mental feint to see if that reasoning could still be possible.

I will clarify that right now falcon is my number 1 in poe followed by urist or tsp even though I have done a mental exercise of giving an explanation to bk's moves if he were mafia.

[Samusamu]

And just because Esooa flipped town doens't mean that you're green too.

Oohhh hahaha , nono, I didn't say that.

But you did say that my slot and game progression didn't differ much from tsp's a few posts ago when on day 2 you had said that without being the eod I did you did read me genuine and liked what I did.

Right now I'm asking you for the mental exercise of why I would make such a move on day 1 eod if it was scum, if it doesn't make more sense with a town that doesn't know that e hk is scum or that which better explains why I did my actions in your view.

I will propose you the following mental exercise bk, if you remove from the existence of this thread my day 1 eod posts, you still claim that my game progression is similar to falcon and tsp? I am still in to poe of the same color and being the lowest on said list?

How do you explain that position at this point in the game? And no, forget the circular argument you have given so far, is my day 2 also something scum? What do you think of me being the only one yesterday trying to reason and look for an explanation for thatoa being town? Do you have no thoughts on this? If you really have made isos of everyone you should have read at least 3 or four posts where I question esooa's cfd and eod being mafia, and I've done so since the beginning of day 2.

[Urist]

If anyone needs me to point out the holes in Samu's argument I can do that, but I think they're pretty self-evident and I don't have a ton of time today

[Samusamu]

Thatoa= esooa *

[Samusamu]

If anyone needs me to point out the holes in Samu's argument I can do that, but I think they're pretty self-evident and I don't have a ton of time today

U can try.

[Urist]

Gavial I don't think you're getting falcon today

[Samusamu]

Now it is time for me to step aside for a few hours from the game so that others can read and comment on what has been said so far.

For the rest of town, reflect calmly which is the best way to aboard the game status and what is better to solve in the game.

Then put that thoughts in the thread for determine together what is the best.

[BoKnows]

Sorry, I don't have time or the WIM to read multiple walls of text right now. I'm working so I can only do quick exchanges and what not.

[Seanzie]

[VOTE: Samu] aubergine

I still want to check what gavial says what happens if he breaks the pact.

Now I also find no reason for you to vote for me anymore and when I have asked every player in game to first tell his reads calmly who is his core, who he distrusts etc to see how his read development progresses in game.

What I can't accept is this kind of actions where ego can to reason and all town players suffer from dunning kruger syndrome.

Right now I'm trying to delve into gavial's accusation to falcon, what happens if he doesn't keep the pact, can he be modkill? Can that be the reason why doom received modkill?

I have so many questions to clarify to understand certain parts of the game that when I'm wanting to go deeper and understand the development and approach of the game that if I don't get this off my chest now by writing this to the two stone eaters who voted for me I'm going to want to strangle someone in the next half hour.

This is what you are doing is being complete idiots.

What pact? I'll get you a list of my reads. What dunning kruger syndrome? I don't think the dunning kruger exists in mafia. Gavial won't be mod killed for lying about his red peek. I think Gavial is trying to be manipulative to get falcon voted out. Which in itself is scummy asf, but the reasons to town read Gavial vastly outweigh that. DOOM probably got modkilled for talking about another live game in this game, but that's the end of that conversation. What are your questions?

What makes scum to you?

What makes me top poe instead knowing of who gavial/falcon is lying about the red cop?

This to begin with.

What makes me scum to you?*

Night 1 EoD still leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

Right now I have to scum hunt in Urist, Samu, Falcon, and TSP. Out of those 4 I think Urist is the most towny. Out of the remaining three all of your guy's play has been similar enough, but it all comes back to that bad play on N1.

How unvoting and voting an afk that were killed the same night is a bad play in a scum way.

Please, everybody reflect on this.

I have been accused that my unvote and vote for jessie was mafia because thatoa had cfd HK.

Right now we know that esooa was town and his cfd was genuine in thinking hk was town.

We also know that marmot shot hk before the end of the day therefore his lynch could no longer happen.

I at that point had stopped being in the game to be with my partner.

What would have changed if I didn't unvote hk? The answer is nothing since the cfd from esooa to marmot happened regardless of what I said or did, moreover I had tried minutes before to check how people saw a wagon a long con and get reads, but I never participated in the cfd to marmot.

Do you think if I am mafia with hk before hk has been shot by marmot does it make any sense for me to leave the game and not defend hk that way?

This is the d1 count

Marmot (3*): urist, esooa, gavial
Esooa (2): Marmot, doom
Samu (1): LC
Jessiekruger (1): Samu
Sean (1): falcon
Not voting (5): bo*, sean*, jessiekruger, tsp, Alison

Tell me now, what makes my vote for jessie more scum than urist's vote to finish off marmot?

You didn't even end up voting and when I was still and proposed LC you even joined pretty quickly without giving much explanation that wagon you joined would also save HK, isn't that also a terrible bad move?

When esooa was still alive and thought he was mafia he could accept that my move was bad and that if esooa made flip scum, I would go after because it's easy for a scum to make a case through my eod.

But this was not the case, despite esooa having made town flip, urist and now you have continued like a fly in summer insisting and insisting like a light and slight buzz throughout the thread that samu is mafia because his move in the eod is bad.

And since samu's move is bad, then samu is mafia. This argument is circular starts where it ends and ends where it starts but there is no real reasoning behind it.

I'm going to say it very clearly, you don't have the balls to explain why a scum samu would make that vote move in the d1 eod and not just any other move nor do you have the balls to say why that move is more scumness than other players with current game information.

This is really bad reasoning. I need to go look back at EoD1 to see exactly how things went down, but now that I'm looking at this vote count, Samu moving from HK to Jessie made it so that Marmot couldn't self-pres onto HK since it would have been 3 to 4...

[Gavial]

@BoKnows
Mind explaining to me why you think Tony is somehow more wolfy then Falcon?
When Falcon hasn’t done anything Townie.
And Tony is a rock this game.


Like who do you think is ever scum with Samu here?
Tony?
Then let’s do Falcon then Tony.
I don’t see any issue here that you should be struggling with.

Tony has done next to nothing this game, and Falcon has done the bare minimum.

Tbh I haven't thought about it on a team basis but more on an individual basis.

It’s not about activity it’s about wolf capability.
You know as well as I know Tony isn’t as wolfy as Falcon has been, Tony’s just been a sitting rock this game and hasn’t really done much.

[Gavial]

I'm not opposed to yeet Falcon, but talking about other possibilities shouldn't derail the thread like it has.

“Talking”?

You legit inclined to not vote Falcon and lose to them in a scum world with Urist.

My vote isn't locked

Yes but you responded “Yup” as in you don’t plan on changing your mind on the yeet order ever.

[Gavial]

And just because Esooa flipped town doens't mean that you're green too.

Gavial I don't think you're getting falcon today

Well if Samu and Falcon both isn’t scum then we lost the game because that’s the only way this is gonna work.

[Gavial]

Watch it be both Falcon and Samu and I’m just bleeding out of my ears.

[Gavial]

Are we still not gonna ask why there was 2 Night Death’s?

[Samusamu]

I still want to check what gavial says what happens if he breaks the pact.

Now I also find no reason for you to vote for me anymore and when I have asked every player in game to first tell his reads calmly who is his core, who he distrusts etc to see how his read development progresses in game.

What I can't accept is this kind of actions where ego can to reason and all town players suffer from dunning kruger syndrome.

Right now I'm trying to delve into gavial's accusation to falcon, what happens if he doesn't keep the pact, can he be modkill? Can that be the reason why doom received modkill?

I have so many questions to clarify to understand certain parts of the game that when I'm wanting to go deeper and understand the development and approach of the game that if I don't get this off my chest now by writing this to the two stone eaters who voted for me I'm going to want to strangle someone in the next half hour.

This is what you are doing is being complete idiots.

What pact? I'll get you a list of my reads. What dunning kruger syndrome? I don't think the dunning kruger exists in mafia. Gavial won't be mod killed for lying about his red peek. I think Gavial is trying to be manipulative to get falcon voted out. Which in itself is scummy asf, but the reasons to town read Gavial vastly outweigh that. DOOM probably got modkilled for talking about another live game in this game, but that's the end of that conversation. What are your questions?

What makes scum to you?

What makes me top poe instead knowing of who gavial/falcon is lying about the red cop?

This to begin with.

What makes me scum to you?*

Night 1 EoD still leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

Right now I have to scum hunt in Urist, Samu, Falcon, and TSP. Out of those 4 I think Urist is the most towny. Out of the remaining three all of your guy's play has been similar enough, but it all comes back to that bad play on N1.

How unvoting and voting an afk that were killed the same night is a bad play in a scum way.

Please, everybody reflect on this.

I have been accused that my unvote and vote for jessie was mafia because thatoa had cfd HK.

Right now we know that esooa was town and his cfd was genuine in thinking hk was town.

We also know that marmot shot hk before the end of the day therefore his lynch could no longer happen.

I at that point had stopped being in the game to be with my partner.

What would have changed if I didn't unvote hk? The answer is nothing since the cfd from esooa to marmot happened regardless of what I said or did, moreover I had tried minutes before to check how people saw a wagon a long con and get reads, but I never participated in the cfd to marmot.

Do you think if I am mafia with hk before hk has been shot by marmot does it make any sense for me to leave the game and not defend hk that way?

This is the d1 count

Marmot (3*): urist, esooa, gavial
Esooa (2): Marmot, doom
Samu (1): LC
Jessiekruger (1): Samu
Sean (1): falcon
Not voting (5): bo*, sean*, jessiekruger, tsp, Alison

Tell me now, what makes my vote for jessie more scum than urist's vote to finish off marmot?

You didn't even end up voting and when I was still and proposed LC you even joined pretty quickly without giving much explanation that wagon you joined would also save HK, isn't that also a terrible bad move?

When esooa was still alive and thought he was mafia he could accept that my move was bad and that if esooa made flip scum, I would go after because it's easy for a scum to make a case through my eod.

But this was not the case, despite esooa having made town flip, urist and now you have continued like a fly in summer insisting and insisting like a light and slight buzz throughout the thread that samu is mafia because his move in the eod is bad.

And since samu's move is bad, then samu is mafia. This argument is circular starts where it ends and ends where it starts but there is no real reasoning behind it.

I'm going to say it very clearly, you don't have the balls to explain why a scum samu would make that vote move in the d1 eod and not just any other move nor do you have the balls to say why that move is more scumness than other players with current game information.

This is really bad reasoning. I need to go look back at EoD1 to see exactly how things went down, but now that I'm looking at this vote count, Samu moving from HK to Jessie made it so that Marmot couldn't self-pres onto HK since it would have been 3 to 4...

Im doing my best here to translate what i want to say and why the argument of me being mafia is circular.

If u want to point something i will read u.

[Gavial]

Now it is time for me to step aside for a few hours from the game so that others can read and comment on what has been said so far.

For the rest of town, reflect calmly which is the best way to aboard the game status and what is better to solve in the game.

Then put that thoughts in the thread for determine together what is the best.

Well this depends on if you vote Falcon or Not.

[Gavial]

Because as Urist said day 1
Samu/Falcon team probable.

[Gavial]

I also said it as well so I guess I can’t just say Urist can I?

[Seanzie]

What pact? I'll get you a list of my reads. What dunning kruger syndrome? I don't think the dunning kruger exists in mafia. Gavial won't be mod killed for lying about his red peek. I think Gavial is trying to be manipulative to get falcon voted out. Which in itself is scummy asf, but the reasons to town read Gavial vastly outweigh that. DOOM probably got modkilled for talking about another live game in this game, but that's the end of that conversation. What are your questions?

What makes scum to you?

What makes me top poe instead knowing of who gavial/falcon is lying about the red cop?

This to begin with.

What makes me scum to you?*

Night 1 EoD still leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

Right now I have to scum hunt in Urist, Samu, Falcon, and TSP. Out of those 4 I think Urist is the most towny. Out of the remaining three all of your guy's play has been similar enough, but it all comes back to that bad play on N1.

How unvoting and voting an afk that were killed the same night is a bad play in a scum way.

Please, everybody reflect on this.

I have been accused that my unvote and vote for jessie was mafia because thatoa had cfd HK.

Right now we know that esooa was town and his cfd was genuine in thinking hk was town.

We also know that marmot shot hk before the end of the day therefore his lynch could no longer happen.

I at that point had stopped being in the game to be with my partner.

What would have changed if I didn't unvote hk? The answer is nothing since the cfd from esooa to marmot happened regardless of what I said or did, moreover I had tried minutes before to check how people saw a wagon a long con and get reads, but I never participated in the cfd to marmot.

Do you think if I am mafia with hk before hk has been shot by marmot does it make any sense for me to leave the game and not defend hk that way?

This is the d1 count

Marmot (3*): urist, esooa, gavial
Esooa (2): Marmot, doom
Samu (1): LC
Jessiekruger (1): Samu
Sean (1): falcon
Not voting (5): bo*, sean*, jessiekruger, tsp, Alison

Tell me now, what makes my vote for jessie more scum than urist's vote to finish off marmot?

You didn't even end up voting and when I was still and proposed LC you even joined pretty quickly without giving much explanation that wagon you joined would also save HK, isn't that also a terrible bad move?

When esooa was still alive and thought he was mafia he could accept that my move was bad and that if esooa made flip scum, I would go after because it's easy for a scum to make a case through my eod.

But this was not the case, despite esooa having made town flip, urist and now you have continued like a fly in summer insisting and insisting like a light and slight buzz throughout the thread that samu is mafia because his move in the eod is bad.

And since samu's move is bad, then samu is mafia. This argument is circular starts where it ends and ends where it starts but there is no real reasoning behind it.

I'm going to say it very clearly, you don't have the balls to explain why a scum samu would make that vote move in the d1 eod and not just any other move nor do you have the balls to say why that move is more scumness than other players with current game information.

This is really bad reasoning. I need to go look back at EoD1 to see exactly how things went down, but now that I'm looking at this vote count, Samu moving from HK to Jessie made it so that Marmot couldn't self-pres onto HK since it would have been 3 to 4...

Im doing my best here to translate what i want to say and why the argument of me being mafia is circular.

If u want to point something i will read u.

How is the argument circular?

[Gavial]

@Urist
Tell yeah what.
I’ll vote Samu today only if you vote Falcon tomorrow.
Because Falcon may kill me tonight so I can’t quick him in LYLO.

[Urist]

@Urist
Tell yeah what.
I’ll vote Samu today only if you vote Falcon tomorrow.
Because Falcon may kill me tonight so I can’t quick him in LYLO.

why are you assuming that a samu yeet today puts us in lylo tomorrow

[Urist]

if i was actually right about my off the cuff samu/falcon w/w read on page 2 i'm going to have to retire mafia. can't get much better than that.

[Urist]

How is the argument circular?

It's not. He's just throwing out buzzwords.

[BoKnows]

godverdomme

[Samusamu]

What makes scum to you?

What makes me top poe instead knowing of who gavial/falcon is lying about the red cop?

This to begin with.

What makes me scum to you?*

Night 1 EoD still leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

Right now I have to scum hunt in Urist, Samu, Falcon, and TSP. Out of those 4 I think Urist is the most towny. Out of the remaining three all of your guy's play has been similar enough, but it all comes back to that bad play on N1.

How unvoting and voting an afk that were killed the same night is a bad play in a scum way.

Please, everybody reflect on this.

I have been accused that my unvote and vote for jessie was mafia because thatoa had cfd HK.

Right now we know that esooa was town and his cfd was genuine in thinking hk was town.

We also know that marmot shot hk before the end of the day therefore his lynch could no longer happen.

I at that point had stopped being in the game to be with my partner.

What would have changed if I didn't unvote hk? The answer is nothing since the cfd from esooa to marmot happened regardless of what I said or did, moreover I had tried minutes before to check how people saw a wagon a long con and get reads, but I never participated in the cfd to marmot.

Do you think if I am mafia with hk before hk has been shot by marmot does it make any sense for me to leave the game and not defend hk that way?

This is the d1 count

Marmot (3*): urist, esooa, gavial
Esooa (2): Marmot, doom
Samu (1): LC
Jessiekruger (1): Samu
Sean (1): falcon
Not voting (5): bo*, sean*, jessiekruger, tsp, Alison

Tell me now, what makes my vote for jessie more scum than urist's vote to finish off marmot?

You didn't even end up voting and when I was still and proposed LC you even joined pretty quickly without giving much explanation that wagon you joined would also save HK, isn't that also a terrible bad move?

When esooa was still alive and thought he was mafia he could accept that my move was bad and that if esooa made flip scum, I would go after because it's easy for a scum to make a case through my eod.

But this was not the case, despite esooa having made town flip, urist and now you have continued like a fly in summer insisting and insisting like a light and slight buzz throughout the thread that samu is mafia because his move in the eod is bad.

And since samu's move is bad, then samu is mafia. This argument is circular starts where it ends and ends where it starts but there is no real reasoning behind it.

I'm going to say it very clearly, you don't have the balls to explain why a scum samu would make that vote move in the d1 eod and not just any other move nor do you have the balls to say why that move is more scumness than other players with current game information.

This is really bad reasoning. I need to go look back at EoD1 to see exactly how things went down, but now that I'm looking at this vote count, Samu moving from HK to Jessie made it so that Marmot couldn't self-pres onto HK since it would have been 3 to 4...

Im doing my best here to translate what i want to say and why the argument of me being mafia is circular.

If u want to point something i will read u.

How is the argument circular?

Bk and urist defend that im mafia cause my d1 eod is bad.

And cause my d1 eod is bad, im mafia.

I name that a circular argument.

Furthermore there havent been and argument o explanation of why i would do that being mafia or why i would jump firstly in hk wagon and quit off after. Or if it possible of me doing that being town.

Nothing.

Thats horrible, is as horrible as esooa's lynch reasons.

Cause esooa did a cfd to marmot he is mafia and esooa is mafia cause he did that cfd, nobody ask himself if esooa being town and being wrong about marmot and hk aligment would do that cfd, if the narrative of esooa post is in a world of esooa being town or a world of esooa being scum.

I asked to everybody to do that mental exercice, nobody weights on that.

Now i'm requesting everybody to do the same with my case.

And there is no a clear response.

Why there is no a clear response? Definitily cause its a circular argument and nobody is thinking about why i should that.

Urist and bk are beginning and finishing in the he was wrong moving his vote and that move feels weird argument. But somebody being weird or being wrong isnt a real argument for being mafia, to think that u have to go deeper and ask yourself if that makes sense.

As a town im defing my slot against a bad argument for being ml. More if i know that gavial had a red check in falcon and the importance of lynching a scum this day.

[Samusamu]

How is the argument circular?

It's not. He's just throwing out buzzwords.

I dont know how that kind of arguments are really called in english, but u saying only that when u said that u can point the "holes" of my post is pure bullshit of an idiot that not understand how difficult its to comunicate this kind of thing in another language

[Urist]

How is the argument circular?

It's not. He's just throwing out buzzwords.

I dont know how that kind of arguments are really called in english, but u saying only that when u said that u can point the "holes" of my post is pure bullshit of an idiot that not understand how difficult its to comunicate this kind of thing in another language

Your English skills are good and I don't really have a problem reading what you're saying. But your arguments are illogical and not based in reality. You've pulled a bunch of stuff out of your ass and have put it in-thread. It's shit.
But yeah language is not the issue here.

[Urist]

Bk and urist defend that im mafia cause my d1 eod is bad.

And cause my d1 eod is bad, im mafia.

I name that a circular argument.

Like wtf is this

[Seanzie]

EoD1 votes as far as I can tell:

I'm going to start at the point where a wagon started forming on me. If people voted in the poll only, I may not add their votes here:

(Falcon's vote was on me from way earlier)

#747 - HK votes me
#750 - Marmot votes me
#773 - Esooa votes me

At this point, I had 4 votes on me, and I think all the other wagons were vanity wagons with 1 vote each. Not sure what all those votes were though.

#775 - BK votes Gavial
#786 - Marmot vote Gavial
#807 - I vote HK
#851 - BK votes Falcon
#860 - Marmot votes HK
#870 - Samu votes HK
#871 - BK votes HK

At this point HK has 4 votes - {Seanzie, Marmot, Samu, BK}. Immediately before Samu's vote, HK had 2 votes, and I think my wagon was in the lead with 3, so Samu's vote tied HK and my wagons.

#928 - Esooa votes Marmot
#942 - Samu votes Jessie
#947 - Esooa votes Jessie
#985 - HK votes Marmot

I think there were some uncalled votes before HK's Marmot vote. Marmot is already gearing up to shoot, so I think his wagon was in the lead even before HK's vote. It maybe was something like Urist, Gavial and Esooa on Marmot prior to HK's vote?

#999 - Marmot votes Esooa

Day ends.

Final VC with HK removed:

Marmot (3*): urist, esooa, gavial
Esooa (2): Marmot, doom
Samu (1): LC
Jessiekruger (1): Samu
Sean (1): falcon
Not voting (5): bo*, sean*, jessiekruger, tsp, Alison

Final VC with HK added back in:

Marmot (4): urist, esooa, gavial, HK
HK (2): BK, Seanzie
Esooa (2): Marmot, doom
Samu (1): LC
Jessiekruger (1): Samu
Sean (1): falcon
Not voting (3): jessiekruger, tsp, Alison

So, looking at this, Samu joined HK's wagon for a little while, then was the first off the wagon. It looks like Samu moved from HK to Jessie when there wasn't a counterwagon to HK yet, and I suppose it looks good that Samu didn't move to Marmot when Marmot's wagon grew, but the move itself brought HK's wagon down to 3 votes, one of which was Marmot, meaning that a wagon on Marmot was much easier to form to save HK.

Conclusion: Samu's HK vote tied the wagons between me and HK, and BK voted HK right afterwards to push HK ahead. Samu moved from HK to Jessie shortly after that, which could be Samu trying to distance from HK, but not actually bus HK. Esooa was pushing pretty hard for Jessie at that point, so Samu voting for Jessie could have also been to try to get another wagon going, but I really don't like how Samu stayed there, rather than picking a side between HK and Marmot.

Other people: Urist and Gavial both ended up on Marmot, which is bad. Falcon ended up on a vanity wagon on me, which also doesn't look great. TSP didn't vote and has been pretty much absent all game, which IDK what that means. BK was on HK, which looks good.

[Urist]

Furthermore there havent been and argument o explanation of why i would do that being mafia or why i would jump firstly in hk wagon and quit off after. Or if it possible of me doing that being town.

Nothing.

You voted for hk because at the time of your vote there was a lot of anti-hk sentiment and you wanted to get on the bus before it left the station.
You would jump off afterward because you thought you could save hk without being on the marmot wagon. You didn't know that hk would flip that day.

I've already explained what I would have expected if you were town. You're just pretending it doesn't exist.

[Seanzie]

What makes me scum to you?*

Night 1 EoD still leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

Right now I have to scum hunt in Urist, Samu, Falcon, and TSP. Out of those 4 I think Urist is the most towny. Out of the remaining three all of your guy's play has been similar enough, but it all comes back to that bad play on N1.

How unvoting and voting an afk that were killed the same night is a bad play in a scum way.

Please, everybody reflect on this.

I have been accused that my unvote and vote for jessie was mafia because thatoa had cfd HK.

Right now we know that esooa was town and his cfd was genuine in thinking hk was town.

We also know that marmot shot hk before the end of the day therefore his lynch could no longer happen.

I at that point had stopped being in the game to be with my partner.

What would have changed if I didn't unvote hk? The answer is nothing since the cfd from esooa to marmot happened regardless of what I said or did, moreover I had tried minutes before to check how people saw a wagon a long con and get reads, but I never participated in the cfd to marmot.

Do you think if I am mafia with hk before hk has been shot by marmot does it make any sense for me to leave the game and not defend hk that way?

This is the d1 count

Marmot (3*): urist, esooa, gavial
Esooa (2): Marmot, doom
Samu (1): LC
Jessiekruger (1): Samu
Sean (1): falcon
Not voting (5): bo*, sean*, jessiekruger, tsp, Alison

Tell me now, what makes my vote for jessie more scum than urist's vote to finish off marmot?

You didn't even end up voting and when I was still and proposed LC you even joined pretty quickly without giving much explanation that wagon you joined would also save HK, isn't that also a terrible bad move?

When esooa was still alive and thought he was mafia he could accept that my move was bad and that if esooa made flip scum, I would go after because it's easy for a scum to make a case through my eod.

But this was not the case, despite esooa having made town flip, urist and now you have continued like a fly in summer insisting and insisting like a light and slight buzz throughout the thread that samu is mafia because his move in the eod is bad.

And since samu's move is bad, then samu is mafia. This argument is circular starts where it ends and ends where it starts but there is no real reasoning behind it.

I'm going to say it very clearly, you don't have the balls to explain why a scum samu would make that vote move in the d1 eod and not just any other move nor do you have the balls to say why that move is more scumness than other players with current game information.

This is really bad reasoning. I need to go look back at EoD1 to see exactly how things went down, but now that I'm looking at this vote count, Samu moving from HK to Jessie made it so that Marmot couldn't self-pres onto HK since it would have been 3 to 4...

Im doing my best here to translate what i want to say and why the argument of me being mafia is circular.

If u want to point something i will read u.

How is the argument circular?

Bk and urist defend that im mafia cause my d1 eod is bad.

And cause my d1 eod is bad, im mafia.

I name that a circular argument.

Furthermore there havent been and argument o explanation of why i would do that being mafia or why i would jump firstly in hk wagon and quit off after. Or if it possible of me doing that being town.

Nothing.

Thats horrible, is as horrible as esooa's lynch reasons.

Cause esooa did a cfd to marmot he is mafia and esooa is mafia cause he did that cfd, nobody ask himself if esooa being town and being wrong about marmot and hk aligment would do that cfd, if the narrative of esooa post is in a world of esooa being town or a world of esooa being scum.

I asked to everybody to do that mental exercice, nobody weights on that.

Now i'm requesting everybody to do the same with my case.

And there is no a clear response.

Why there is no a clear response? Definitily cause its a circular argument and nobody is thinking about why i should that.

Urist and bk are beginning and finishing in the he was wrong moving his vote and that move feels weird argument. But somebody being weird or being wrong isnt a real argument for being mafia, to think that u have to go deeper and ask yourself if that makes sense.

As a town im defing my slot against a bad argument for being ml. More if i know that gavial had a red check in falcon and the importance of lynching a scum this day.

This is not a circular argument. You're using the correct term here, but what you are describing isn't that. Both these arguments have the form:
1.Samu's EoD1 was bad.
2.If Samu's EoD1 was bad, then Samu is mafia.
Therefore, Samu is mafia.

This is a valid argument form called Modus Ponens. It isn't clear that the premises are true, but the argument form itself is not circular, and it is a valid deduction (assuming the truth of the premises).

A (invalid) circular argument would be something like:
1.If Samu's EoD1 was bad, then Samu is mafia.
2.If Samu is mafia, then Samu's EoD1 was bad.
Therefore, Samu is mafia.

[Seanzie]

Furthermore there havent been and argument o explanation of why i would do that being mafia or why i would jump firstly in hk wagon and quit off after. Or if it possible of me doing that being town.

Nothing.

You voted for hk because at the time of your vote there was a lot of anti-hk sentiment and you wanted to get on the bus before it left the station.
You would jump off afterward because you thought you could save hk without being on the marmot wagon. You didn't know that hk would flip that day.

I've already explained what I would have expected if you were town. You're just pretending it doesn't exist.

I could be wrong since some votes weren't called, but I don't think the Marmot wagon existed when Samu moved from HK to Jessie.

[Urist]

Furthermore there havent been and argument o explanation of why i would do that being mafia or why i would jump firstly in hk wagon and quit off after. Or if it possible of me doing that being town.

Nothing.

You voted for hk because at the time of your vote there was a lot of anti-hk sentiment and you wanted to get on the bus before it left the station.
You would jump off afterward because you thought you could save hk without being on the marmot wagon. You didn't know that hk would flip that day.

I've already explained what I would have expected if you were town. You're just pretending it doesn't exist.

I could be wrong since some votes weren't called, but I don't think the Marmot wagon existed when Samu moved from HK to Jessie.

I had been voting for marmot since midday at that point.

[falcon45ca]

I don't know what to tell ya. I'm town.

At this point i dont care of pr.

Are u vt or not?

I am VT

[Samusamu]

Furthermore there havent been and argument o explanation of why i would do that being mafia or why i would jump firstly in hk wagon and quit off after. Or if it possible of me doing that being town.

Nothing.

You voted for hk because at the time of your vote there was a lot of anti-hk sentiment and you wanted to get on the bus before it left the station.
You would jump off afterward because you thought you could save hk without being on the marmot wagon. You didn't know that hk would flip that day.

I've already explained what I would have expected if you were town. You're just pretending it doesn't exist.

No, thats not true.

I jump on hk wagon cause he did some post in the same page that i didnt like, but i wasnt scumreading him at all.

And this "without being on the marmot wagon." Isnt true also. When i was off the marmot wagon wasnt formed.

[falcon45ca]

Based off the OP, there have def been some player's who dunya has reached out to. Why aren't we hearing from them?

[Seanzie]

Furthermore there havent been and argument o explanation of why i would do that being mafia or why i would jump firstly in hk wagon and quit off after. Or if it possible of me doing that being town.

Nothing.

You voted for hk because at the time of your vote there was a lot of anti-hk sentiment and you wanted to get on the bus before it left the station.
You would jump off afterward because you thought you could save hk without being on the marmot wagon. You didn't know that hk would flip that day.

I've already explained what I would have expected if you were town. You're just pretending it doesn't exist.

No, thats not true.

I jump on hk wagon cause he did some post in the same page that i didnt like, but i wasnt scumreading him at all.

And this "without being on the marmot wagon." Isnt true also. When i was off the marmot wagon wasnt formed.

What post is that? Can you quote it?

[Urist]

Based off the OP, there have def been some player's who dunya has reached out to. Why aren't we hearing from them?

it could be that they don't want to be killed by the mafia

[Urist]

Furthermore there havent been and argument o explanation of why i would do that being mafia or why i would jump firstly in hk wagon and quit off after. Or if it possible of me doing that being town.

Nothing.

You voted for hk because at the time of your vote there was a lot of anti-hk sentiment and you wanted to get on the bus before it left the station.
You would jump off afterward because you thought you could save hk without being on the marmot wagon. You didn't know that hk would flip that day.

I've already explained what I would have expected if you were town. You're just pretending it doesn't exist.

No, thats not true.

I jump on hk wagon cause he did some post in the same page that i didnt like, but i wasnt scumreading him at all.

And this "without being on the marmot wagon." Isnt true also. When i was off the marmot wagon wasnt formed.

I just checked, your last post of the day was made after esooa said that she was going to vote for marmot

[Urist]

Furthermore there havent been and argument o explanation of why i would do that being mafia or why i would jump firstly in hk wagon and quit off after. Or if it possible of me doing that being town.

Nothing.

You voted for hk because at the time of your vote there was a lot of anti-hk sentiment and you wanted to get on the bus before it left the station.
You would jump off afterward because you thought you could save hk without being on the marmot wagon. You didn't know that hk would flip that day.

I've already explained what I would have expected if you were town. You're just pretending it doesn't exist.

No, thats not true.

I jump on hk wagon cause he did some post in the same page that i didnt like, but i wasnt scumreading him at all.

And this "without being on the marmot wagon." Isnt true also. When i was off the marmot wagon wasnt formed.

I just checked, your last post of the day was made after esooa said that she was going to vote for marmot

Actually Gavial was voting for marmot at that point as well. So when you logged off marmot had 2 votes and was clearly getting 2 more.

[Samusamu]

In Page 18 i said this.

Well not lc wagon, now i prefer hollow than falcon i can explain to many things knowing he is newbie.

[VOTE: hollow] aubergine

I saw this:

kinda dumb that the only reason I got for seanzie being the lead wagon is that he's "kinda" scummy. like wtf is that.

what do you want from D1? giant neon sign like this?

Actual reasons

is: fairly vapid iso a good enough reason for you?

kinda dumb that the only reason I got for seanzie being the lead wagon is that he's "kinda" scummy. like wtf is that.

what do you want from D1? giant neon sign like this?

Spoiler: show

why not take votes seriously though?

I mean, votes should always be considered for their meaning. I think the word "serious" isn't quite right. Samu's vote didn't look at all like it was meant to contribute to a TK of Falcon, and rarely are early D1 votes meant in that way. Instead they are more used to generate content and reactions. Samu naked voted Falcon, and then when pressed, asked Falcon what he thinks of that. That vote looks "non-serious" to be in the sense that I don't really think Samu was thinking about TKing Falcon there. If Samu is town, it was a reaction test, and if he is scum, I don't think he would cast a vote meant to stay there this early in D1.

Doing reaction tests like that IMO is >rand town, and Falcon taking the vote seriously enough to OMGUS Samu I think is >rand scum.

basically there's a difference between "I intend to kill you with this vote" and "I wonder what happens if I vote you here". There's also "this vote is literally for laughs" but that category is generally really obvs.

Can see how ppl are getting to wolfy falcon off of that.

ok thanks. I can see how he gets to "one of falcon, seanzie, samusamu is a wolf". Seems like that's a fairly reasonable stance to take. Not thrilled with his "don't want to hit wrong" take tho, it's still early.
His second post you quote is meh to me. Can grok why you don't like it.
Third post is a throw-away in my book.

I guess I get what concerns you, so thanks, I appreciate it.

tbh I want to wolf read her for it. mostly b/c I've done what she's doing as wolf, and I've had it done to me. It's kinda effective b/c as long as you're not crossing the line from "annoyed and responding with snark and sarcasm" into "actually insulting people" it gets people who sus you to back off.

Outside of her interactions with me/Gavial what's your take on DoO? I know my read on her is currently clouded by my recent interactions.

You "want" to wolf read her? Are you wolf reading her, or no?

I wolf read AtE

Seanzie & Gavial are top scum for me.


[VOTE: VOTE SEANZIE] aubergine

spicy
why are they top scum?

spicy
why are they top scum?

Both of their reactions to Samu & I

I found his approach to Samu's & I the most opphrtunistic

I'm taking sean out of my townreads. I was just reading through those posts again and I agree with this.

He didn't have a lot of conviction and I think it's because he was looking for an easy way to back out of the read.

soooo lets just murder seanz then
[VOTE: seanzie] aubergine

For anyone interested, here is HK's progression on sean up to his vote for sean

@hollowkatt what do you find scummy about sean?

Why aren't you voting sean?

Because I moved my vote to Gavial.

Could you please explain what you find scummy about sean.

I don't think he's town. As in I don't think he's doing town things. I don't see him making any kinds of pushes other than on people who suspect him. I'm not seeing independent solving from him, and I think he's functioning basically on omgus logic. I don't perceive him as low skill so omgus logic isn't a good look there.
I can't point to anything specific that says "hay guys this is a wolf look here" but i can point to a whole lot of "eh"

The last one is the worst, inconclusive and convenient argument for an eod moment.

[Samusamu]

@Seanzie

[Gavial]

if i was actually right about my off the cuff samu/falcon w/w read on page 2 i'm going to have to retire mafia. can't get much better than that.

Yeah and I wanna see you start being a hoster and balancer for now on!

[falcon45ca]

Based off the OP, there have def been some player's who dunya has reached out to. Why aren't we hearing from them?

it could be that they don't want to be killed by the mafia

I've been in contact w/ dunya. She told me not to mention it as I'm likely to get shoot, but YOLO

[falcon45ca]

Based off the OP, there have def been some player's who dunya has reached out to. Why aren't we hearing from them?

it could be that they don't want to be killed by the mafia

I've been in contact w/ dunya. She told me not to mention it as I'm likely to get shot, but YOLO

Fixed

[Urist]

Are you in contact with her now?

[Urist]

Blink twice if you're in danger

[Samusamu]

Night 1 EoD still leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

Right now I have to scum hunt in Urist, Samu, Falcon, and TSP. Out of those 4 I think Urist is the most towny. Out of the remaining three all of your guy's play has been similar enough, but it all comes back to that bad play on N1.

How unvoting and voting an afk that were killed the same night is a bad play in a scum way.

Please, everybody reflect on this.

I have been accused that my unvote and vote for jessie was mafia because thatoa had cfd HK.

Right now we know that esooa was town and his cfd was genuine in thinking hk was town.

We also know that marmot shot hk before the end of the day therefore his lynch could no longer happen.

I at that point had stopped being in the game to be with my partner.

What would have changed if I didn't unvote hk? The answer is nothing since the cfd from esooa to marmot happened regardless of what I said or did, moreover I had tried minutes before to check how people saw a wagon a long con and get reads, but I never participated in the cfd to marmot.

Do you think if I am mafia with hk before hk has been shot by marmot does it make any sense for me to leave the game and not defend hk that way?

This is the d1 count

Marmot (3*): urist, esooa, gavial
Esooa (2): Marmot, doom
Samu (1): LC
Jessiekruger (1): Samu
Sean (1): falcon
Not voting (5): bo*, sean*, jessiekruger, tsp, Alison

Tell me now, what makes my vote for jessie more scum than urist's vote to finish off marmot?

You didn't even end up voting and when I was still and proposed LC you even joined pretty quickly without giving much explanation that wagon you joined would also save HK, isn't that also a terrible bad move?

When esooa was still alive and thought he was mafia he could accept that my move was bad and that if esooa made flip scum, I would go after because it's easy for a scum to make a case through my eod.

But this was not the case, despite esooa having made town flip, urist and now you have continued like a fly in summer insisting and insisting like a light and slight buzz throughout the thread that samu is mafia because his move in the eod is bad.

And since samu's move is bad, then samu is mafia. This argument is circular starts where it ends and ends where it starts but there is no real reasoning behind it.

I'm going to say it very clearly, you don't have the balls to explain why a scum samu would make that vote move in the d1 eod and not just any other move nor do you have the balls to say why that move is more scumness than other players with current game information.

This is really bad reasoning. I need to go look back at EoD1 to see exactly how things went down, but now that I'm looking at this vote count, Samu moving from HK to Jessie made it so that Marmot couldn't self-pres onto HK since it would have been 3 to 4...

Im doing my best here to translate what i want to say and why the argument of me being mafia is circular.

If u want to point something i will read u.

How is the argument circular?

Bk and urist defend that im mafia cause my d1 eod is bad.

And cause my d1 eod is bad, im mafia.

I name that a circular argument.

Furthermore there havent been and argument o explanation of why i would do that being mafia or why i would jump firstly in hk wagon and quit off after. Or if it possible of me doing that being town.

Nothing.

Thats horrible, is as horrible as esooa's lynch reasons.

Cause esooa did a cfd to marmot he is mafia and esooa is mafia cause he did that cfd, nobody ask himself if esooa being town and being wrong about marmot and hk aligment would do that cfd, if the narrative of esooa post is in a world of esooa being town or a world of esooa being scum.

I asked to everybody to do that mental exercice, nobody weights on that.

Now i'm requesting everybody to do the same with my case.

And there is no a clear response.

Why there is no a clear response? Definitily cause its a circular argument and nobody is thinking about why i should that.

Urist and bk are beginning and finishing in the he was wrong moving his vote and that move feels weird argument. But somebody being weird or being wrong isnt a real argument for being mafia, to think that u have to go deeper and ask yourself if that makes sense.

As a town im defing my slot against a bad argument for being ml. More if i know that gavial had a red check in falcon and the importance of lynching a scum this day.

This is not a circular argument. You're using the correct term here, but what you are describing isn't that. Both these arguments have the form:
1.Samu's EoD1 was bad.
2.If Samu's EoD1 was bad, then Samu is mafia.
Therefore, Samu is mafia.

This is a valid argument form called Modus Ponens. It isn't clear that the premises are true, but the argument form itself is not circular, and it is a valid deduction (assuming the truth of the premises).

A (invalid) circular argument would be something like:
1.If Samu's EoD1 was bad, then Samu is mafia.
2.If Samu is mafia, then Samu's EoD1 was bad.
Therefore, Samu is mafia.

Okey, I can come to buy that you think the terminology is not correct, when still, I keep saying that the only argument to say that I am scum, is that my eod is bad, and just because my day 1 eod is bad I can be accused of scum, because so far there is no other argument.

And I say this to you sean, who have done the mental exercise of looking at the eod again and realized that there is more than one player like urist or Falcon whose eod is also bad with the information we have now.

There is nothing else in this game that I am being accused of.

And even having a red check on falcon I don't get to understand in which head of a town it fits not to lynch falcon today and already if tomorrow it is still believed that I am scum elaborate the case against me.

As you can see here:

Based off the OP, there have def been some player's who dunya has reached out to. Why aren't we hearing from them?

it could be that they don't want to be killed by the mafia

Urist is not trying to think why I made that move in eod and see if that corresponds to a samu scum or not.

He comes up with the narrative that I am scum and tries to excuse his theory even if he has to give it a backhanded twist and it seems to me that it is quite obvious his non-reflexivity.

[Urist]

lol