Double Elimination Mafia town win

[Alison]

lol if it's Daisy/Tim and Mac is town then Tim's play actually makes perfect sense. He is greedy to get Mac/Alison blasted into the sun N1 so he can run the game. He is not playing to his town meta at all tbh.

[Timsup2nothin]

The big question is why Daisy is overreacting this hard to a simple scumread (characterizing it as blind hate, telling me I want to murder everyone in the town when I only have 3 people I want to kill, etc.)

One possibility is that they are town and this is some extreme form of OMGUS. The other possibility is that they are scum and going all out to stop me because my solve is too close for comfort.

The problem I find is that Mac's approach to me and Daisy's approach to me doesn't make sense if they're scum together. So something is wrong there.

Well, I never did think your read there was good, so...

I am up to about even money that you are town and right about Mac though, so help me out. If you and Mac go out here as a sort of one for one play, and you are town...which four out of the remaining six do you think give you the best chance to win?

[Alison]

I'm voting Daisy either way tbh. They are >rand wolf and I'm not a big fan of letting someone live if they're going to go on a rant about how the person accusing them is a hateful piece of shit every time they come under suspicion. It's poor for thread health at best.

[Alison]

What do you mean "four out of the remaining six"?

[Alison]

Actually what the fuck is Tim going on regarding "star player" stuff? @Timsup2nothin

[Timsup2nothin]

lol if it's Daisy/Tim and Mac is town then Tim's play actually makes perfect sense. He is greedy to get Mac/Alison blasted into the sun N1 so he can run the game. He is not playing to his town meta at all tbh.

Actually I am playing town exactly the same way I played it the last time I was in a game where a quarter of the player list had to be chopped before there were any flips.

[Alison]

Points in favor of Daisy being town: AtE + OMGUS seemed like a more extreme version of town Michelle. I have no doubt dunya is reading them town and screaming at me to change course from spec chat.

Points in favor of Daisy being scum: Tim associatives, weird inconsistency regarding her treatment of me.

@DaisyCloud Why assert that I'm here to "bash everyone" and then in the same post accuse me of having an unjustified townread of TSP?

[Alison]

I don't really have it in me to deal with stuff like this sorry.

dude. I'm sorry, okay? im so frustrated. it's no excuse. i should not have not tanted about certain people. I should not have assumed if someone dishes it out that they can take it. but she is so mean. I shouldn't have vented about u either.

If you think scumreading and pushing someone in a mafia game is mean then you will find that every game is filled with mean players. Nobody is obligated to treat you with kid gloves just because you don't like it when you get pushed or disagree with the reasons people have for pushing you. That's all I'm going to say on the subject. You can call it anti-town or jerkish behavior but applying pressure is a tried and tested method of identifying and burying scum.

[Timsup2nothin]

Actually what the fuck is Tim going on regarding "star player" stuff? @Timsup2nothin

Ask Mac. He played the "Mac and Alison site co-MVPs you can't chop us" card. If there was just one chop I'd actually buy that. Give you both another day to sort out your differences. But I do not see chopping dour people here and leaving you two alive, because you have both been heavily out in the weeds and not towny.

[Alison]

Mac is raising a good point that the entire game seems to have swallowed the "at least one between Mac and Alison" narrative whole. That might be an indicator he is town. I don't understand why he played the early game the way he did but he's giving me his vote for this bracket. That means that either:

1) he is the only scum in loser's
or
2) he is town

If he is scum with a teammate in this bracket he doesn't commit to sheeping me because I might find them. Especially if that teammate is Tim.

Let's start by assuming that my top scumread Tim is actually scum. Worst case scenario: he is the only one in loser's bracket, and two other teammates are in winner's. Then we are forced to go 1 scum exe, 3 town exe. We can't do better than that in the worst case scenario. So those 3 exes other than Tim should be: people who can be Tim's teammate and/or people who are less likely to be able to find the scum in winner's bracket.

Suppose I take MacDougall as town here on faith because of his leashing his vote to mine and the general crowd reaction to Mac/Alison one wolf narrative. I take Gavial to be town as well because he was obvwolf in Fallout and he's been relentlessly solving this game and even went as far as to analyze the winner's bracket. That's super townie behavior. That leaves. Poison/Made/TSP, I need to remove one name from this list, and then add the other two to Tim/Daisy to come up with my preferred four exes.

Conclusion is: [Daisy/Tim/two of [Poison, Made, TSP] is the correct vote. I want to see more from all three of them to make up my mind who to take out.

[Alison]

Reading Poison/Made/TSP isos.

I came away from Poison with a slight scumlean. I'm not seeing much that is helping shed light on people's alignments and a lot of one liner responses to quotes that don't go anywhere. This is not out of Poison's townrange because she's very much a dynamic and high energy player who throws herself into the latest posts and just responds to every part of it regardless of "relevance". Nevertheless the bottom line is that the noise to signal ratio is poor.

I am fine with Made's ISO. Meta reads on DaisyCloud and Tim both seem genuine, especially as they are not that unlikely to be correct.

TSP is being TSP. He doubts there are 3 wolves, we know for a fact that there are. Could be a derp clear I guess but so many people have "derp cleared" based on setup stuff that I am not comfortable assigning too much weight to derp clear. Everything else seems within normal range for him, but I have admitted that I am a poor TSP reader. I would stick him at null, maybe a slight townlean since his reads seem to align with mine.

Of those three I would rather take Made out of the four-exe vote.

[Alison]

@MacDougall Talk to me about Daisy in a way that isn't just pointing at their derp clear wrt number of wolves in the game. What about their actual behavior do you think is townie or scummy and why.

[Timsup2nothin]

LOLOLOLOL...gosh Alison, why would the whole game have swallowed that narrative whole? You think it was ME that sold it? Get a grip. This is the Syndicate. NO ONE here listens to me. You and Mac sold that. Now you are trying to reverse spin off of it without giving up the associative reads you made off of it back when it was the fixed point you were building your entire reads list on.

[Alison]

LOLOLOLOL...gosh Alison, why would the whole game have swallowed that narrative whole? You think it was ME that sold it? Get a grip. This is the Syndicate. NO ONE here listens to me. You and Mac sold that. Now you are trying to reverse spin off of it without giving up the associative reads you made off of it back when it was the fixed point you were building your entire reads list on.

I'm currently making no reads based on associatives with scum Mac.

I am reconsidering the possibility that Mac is lockscum because of the fact that nobody has tried to challenge that narrative. Yes me and Mac sold it. If it is accurate then why did the mafia buy it without a hint of resistance. Is the question.

Let's consider a world where Mac is scum. Alison comes in and hard tunnels him. What do Mac's scum buddies do? Just go "yeah that makes sense to me, whack them both"? I think they'd at least put in some effort into challenging that dichotomy or trying to ensure Mac didn't get sent to loser's because it almost guarantees his execution. I am seeing no effort from any player in the game to do that. So if Mac is scum why aren't his scum buddies protecting him at all? Do you think MacDougall is the designated D1 bus and expendable wolf who is used to secure a free Alison misexe?

I don't buy it.

[Timsup2nothin]

LOLOLOLOL...gosh Alison, why would the whole game have swallowed that narrative whole? You think it was ME that sold it? Get a grip. This is the Syndicate. NO ONE here listens to me. You and Mac sold that. Now you are trying to reverse spin off of it without giving up the associative reads you made off of it back when it was the fixed point you were building your entire reads list on.

I'm currently making no reads based on associatives with scum Mac.

I am reconsidering the possibility that Mac is lockscum because of the fact that nobody has tried to challenge that narrative. Yes me and Mac sold it. If it is accurate then why did the mafia buy it without a hint of resistance. Is the question.

Let's consider a world where Mac is scum. Alison comes in and hard tunnels him. What do Mac's scum buddies do? Just go "yeah that makes sense to me, whack them both"? I think they'd at least put in some effort into challenging that dichotomy or trying to ensure Mac didn't get sent to loser's because it almost guarantees his execution. I am seeing no effort from any player in the game to do that. So if Mac is scum why aren't his scum buddies protecting him at all? Do you think MacDougall is the designated D1 bus and expendable wolf who is used to secure a free Alison misexe?

I don't buy it.

I could point to half a dozen potential wolves who would say "Mac's gonna have to handle Alison" and leave him to it.

As to "I'm making no reads based on associatives with scum Mac"...no you aren't...it's just hilarious though that now that you are reading based on totally something else other than associatives with scum Mac you are still getting the exact same results. The coincidence is flatly amazing.

[Alison]

A lot of the times when scum are caught for the wrong reasons they throw a temper tantrum and out themselves as wolf for completely different reasons. I don't think it's unusual.

[DaisyCloud]

I'm voting Daisy either way tbh. They are >rand wolf and I'm not a big fan of letting someone live if they're going to go on a rant about how the person accusing them is a hateful piece of shit every time they come under suspicion. It's poor for thread health at best.

see this is scummy and very anti-town. you are hateful and mean and horrible and doing 0 to fund scum. you decided that me tim and MacDougall are scum and no one else. you won't budge and you don't care. you are wrong about me and you don't care. all because is "association"

how lame is that?

you have to be scum. you don't have anything logical as to why I'm scum.

Points in favor of Daisy being town: AtE + OMGUS seemed like a more extreme version of town Michelle. I have no doubt dunya is reading them town and screaming at me to change course from spec chat.

Points in favor of Daisy being scum: Tim associatives, weird inconsistency regarding her treatment of me.

@DaisyCloud Why assert that I'm here to "bash everyone" and then in the same post accuse me of having an unjustified townread of TSP?

treatment of you is inconsistent? i have 0 treatment of you at all. im pointing out how you been treating me.


do you even have a list of people that could be scum/wolf/mafia outside of me, MacDougall, and Tim? no you do not. you don't even have alternatives if even onky one of us could be town.

who plays like that? what even?

I have said you could be town but are 233% definitely playing anti-town. no one, absolutely no person who randed town could play a game and be this absolutely sure they found all the wolves and literally try to brow beat everyone in the game to listen to them and vote rhe same way as them.

you semi-axknowlwdge that you could be wrong about me but you literally didn't care about anything I post. you see 0 wrong with your behavior. you dish it out but u can't take it. you don't even attempt to put yourself in my shoes.

I have been trying to find scum. but you ignore all that. you continue with this false narrative and try to act as though you are the victim here. which is not true.

I don't really have it in me to deal with stuff like this sorry.

dude. I'm sorry, okay? im so frustrated. it's no excuse. i should not have not tanted about certain people. I should not have assumed if someone dishes it out that they can take it. but she is so mean. I shouldn't have vented about u either.

If you think scumreading and pushing someone in a mafia game is mean then you will find that every game is filled with mean players. Nobody is obligated to treat you with kid gloves just because you don't like it when you get pushed or disagree with the reasons people have for pushing you. That's all I'm going to say on the subject. You can call it anti-town or jerkish behavior but applying pressure is a tried and tested method of identifying and burying scum.

thing is you haven't been pushing me. all you been doing is yelling in the game how im scum and im scum because tim and Mac are scum. that isn't a push. that isn't even valid reasons to explain why I'm scum. you repeat that over and over like a broken record.

im not scum because Mac and Tim are scum. that is illogical.

this is literally the only thing you have been saying. that is a vendetta, that is hateful, that is messed up and you know it. that is Aldo bad scum hunting.

if you had anything logical or even things you read as a slip that be different. people make mistakes like that. but no u don't even have that.

that is arrogant and that is narcissistic. and that is anti-town.

and should you actually be town and get yourself misyeeted, you haven't talked about even the hunt of who other scum could be and why and who other town could be and why if one or 2 of us in this group of me, Tim, and Mac should actually be town.

so we gain very little if anything from your flip. all we get was you was town and you was dead wrong about one of us. and you don't care. you literally said it. you don't care that you could possibly be wrong. you alone are not judge and jury.

I'm not being some whiney cry baby either because oh no im being scum read. so idk why you are saying that about me.

[DaisyCloud]

A lot of the times when scum are caught for the wrong reasons they throw a temper tantrum and out themselves as wolf for completely different reasons. I don't think it's unusual.

sometimes when a town is being scum read for messed up reasons they get legitimately frustrated and will post about it. that isn't unusual, that is facts and I cite every mafia game ever that has ever that had mislynches. which is most like every mafia game ever played.

[DaisyCloud]

Mac is raising a good point that the entire game seems to have swallowed the "at least one between Mac and Alison" narrative whole. That might be an indicator he is town. I don't understand why he played the early game the way he did but he's giving me his vote for this bracket. That means that either:

1) he is the only scum in loser's
or
2) he is town

If he is scum with a teammate in this bracket he doesn't commit to sheeping me because I might find them. Especially if that teammate is Tim.

Let's start by assuming that my top scumread Tim is actually scum. Worst case scenario: he is the only one in loser's bracket, and two other teammates are in winner's. Then we are forced to go 1 scum exe, 3 town exe. We can't do better than that in the worst case scenario. So those 3 exes other than Tim should be: people who can be Tim's teammate and/or people who are less likely to be able to find the scum in winner's bracket.

Suppose I take MacDougall as town here on faith because of his leashing his vote to mine and the general crowd reaction to Mac/Alison one wolf narrative. I take Gavial to be town as well because he was obvwolf in Fallout and he's been relentlessly solving this game and even went as far as to analyze the winner's bracket. That's super townie behavior. That leaves. Poison/Made/TSP, I need to remove one name from this list, and then add the other two to Tim/Daisy to come up with my preferred four exes.

Conclusion is: [Daisy/Tim/two of [Poison, Made, TSP] is the correct vote. I want to see more from all three of them to make up my mind who to take out.

wut? put the 3 of us out of the picture. stop looking at false associations.

Reading Poison/Made/TSP isos.

I came away from Poison with a slight scumlean. I'm not seeing much that is helping shed light on people's alignments and a lot of one liner responses to quotes that don't go anywhere. This is not out of Poison's townrange because she's very much a dynamic and high energy player who throws herself into the latest posts and just responds to every part of it regardless of "relevance". Nevertheless the bottom line is that the noise to signal ratio is poor.

I am fine with Made's ISO. Meta reads on DaisyCloud and Tim both seem genuine, especially as they are not that unlikely to be correct.

TSP is being TSP. He doubts there are 3 wolves, we know for a fact that there are. Could be a derp clear I guess but so many people have "derp cleared" based on setup stuff that I am not comfortable assigning too much weight to derp clear. Everything else seems within normal range for him, but I have admitted that I am a poor TSP reader. I would stick him at null, maybe a slight townlean since his reads seem to align with mine.

Of those three I would rather take Made out of the four-exe vote.

so wut the wut now? could you stop this false narrative.


look I got 0 clue about the alignment of anyone here except my own. I checked my pm like multiple times. and nope still town. I'm glad I randed town so I can be pure salt should you succeed in misyeeting me. A pillar of salt. Saltier then the Dead Sea. My middle name will be Salt now.

so basically who ever agrees with you is town and whoever doesn't is scum. and it all centers on Tim, Mac, and me... that makes 0 sense.

[DaisyCloud]

[VOTE: TonyStarkPrime ] aubergine he looks like he randed mafia and is playing it safe. yes, I read his iso.

[DaisyCloud]

I'm hoping my vote on @MacDougall will get him to take this game seriously. I don't know why he appears to have given up and going to allow everyone to swallow the bitter pill that is Alison and her false narrative that Tim, hum , and me are all wolves.

come on MacDougall. why aren't you trying to play? where are your scums? your towns? Where are you cool/funny one liners? don't let Alison suck the fun out of this game. where are your gifs and nsfw jks? (actually I don't miss that last one I bring it because it's missing)

is Alison right about you? I started to believe her and literally checked my pm several times. nope, I'm town. not in a scum team. you could do that thing you do when you rand town and post like your old self, you know all cool and stuff.

[Alison]

I'm not going to respond to you because I think it's terrible for thread health. Moreover I think you know it's terrible for thread health and are doing it on purpose.

[MacDougall]

@MacDougall Talk to me about Daisy in a way that isn't just pointing at their derp clear wrt number of wolves in the game. What about their actual behavior do you think is townie or scummy and why.

Daisy's play seems aligned to what I am used to of their town play.

[MacDougall]

LOLOLOLOL...gosh Alison, why would the whole game have swallowed that narrative whole? You think it was ME that sold it? Get a grip. This is the Syndicate. NO ONE here listens to me. You and Mac sold that. Now you are trying to reverse spin off of it without giving up the associative reads you made off of it back when it was the fixed point you were building your entire reads list on.

I'm currently making no reads based on associatives with scum Mac.

I am reconsidering the possibility that Alison is lockscum because of the fact that nobody has tried to challenge that narrative. Yes me and Alison sold it. If it is accurate then why did the mafia buy it without a hint of resistance. Is the question.

Let's consider a world where Alison is scum. Alison comes in and hard tunnels him. What do Alison's scum buddies do? Just go "yeah that makes sense to me, whack them both"? I think they'd at least put in some effort into challenging that dichotomy or trying to ensure Alison didn't get sent to loser's because it almost guarantees her execution. I am seeing no effort from any player in the game to do that. So if Alison is scum why aren't her scum buddies protecting her at all? Do you think Alison is the designated D1 bus and expendable wolf who is used to secure a free Mac misexe?

I don't buy it.

FTFY

[MacDougall]

I'm hoping my vote on @MacDougall will get him to take this game seriously. I don't know why he appears to have given up and going to allow everyone to swallow the bitter pill that is Alison and her false narrative that Tim, hum , and me are all wolves.

come on MacDougall. why aren't you trying to play? where are your scums? your towns? Where are you cool/funny one liners? don't let Alison suck the fun out of this game. where are your gifs and nsfw jks? (actually I don't miss that last one I bring it because it's missing)

is Alison right about you? I started to believe her and literally checked my pm several times. nope, I'm town. not in a scum team. you could do that thing you do when you rand town and post like your old self, you know all cool and stuff.

Sorry I was having a bbq with my friends and then we drank some wine and played some 2k21.

[Alison]

You can have BBQs now? I can't even go out except for groceries or medical appointments

[Alison]

[unvote]DaisyCloud[/unvote]

It probably is Tim but the question is who is he with. He has deliberately left no associatives in his ISO because he knew he was going to loser's.

[Poison]

Good Evening. I'm not sure why I was under the impression that I'm not on this list. Rip.

[Poison]

Losers Bracket

Alison
Mac
Tim
Daisy
Gavial
Made
Poison
Tsp

My for sure votes:
Mac and Alison for self resolve reasons
Tim because gut and I don’t want them to late game.

Never voting TSP, hard town.
Leaving Made/Daisy/Poison as my PoE for this elimination.
Leaning Poison, not confident in either 3 though.

I’m hoping @Marmot and @falcon45ca can both lead town in the Winners Bracket and make sure the scum are unable to lead it.

if I'm getting this right, you are town reading Marmot, falcon and tsp.?

You want Alison and mac to get things resolved among them so you are voting both of them??

I vote them both for the same reason earlier but I don't think I would again vote both of them. because I don't think they can be scum together here. Are you planning to remove votes after seeing their progressions? or do you simply scum read both of them?

[Poison]

[VOTE: Alison] aubergine
[VOTE: Gavial] aubergine
[VOTE: Made] aubergine
[VOTE: Poison] aubergine

Can I have your thoughts regarding Tim and Daisy please.

I believe Daisy is derp cleared.
I have no real thoughts on Tim. Been wolfy?

wait wait, why you scum-reading me?

I am very disappointed Marmot didn't get put in the lower bracket.

I'm disappointed you and Tim are here. neither one of you should be here.

I'm thinking Tim is town and I lean town on you so far.

u not poking at me is disconcerting tho.

Umm don't you think there should be some pro towns (as per your reads) in here to get rid off the scummy players?

[Poison]

Spoiler: show

I am very disappointed Marmot didn't get put in the lower bracket.

I'm disappointed you and Tim are here. neither one of you should be here.

I'm thinking Tim is town and I lean town on you so far.

u not poking at me is disconcerting tho.

I think both should be here as I think both can be scum.

they can be, but doesn't mean they are. I still hold Tim would better serve town in bracket 1. I don't think all the mafia are here yet.

Tim has been misunderstood and misyeeted to many times. not sure why people would think he is deep wolf or scummy so much. how is he as a wolf? explain how he is wolf here and not town? I need quotes and examples.

how r u so sure about his alignment when it is only nite 1?

if he is wolf why am I sheep in your eyes? or poe actually.

sorry for bombarding you. we share nite together and I want to get to know you to figure out your alignment.

thank u for your time and attention ♡

I am very disappointed Marmot didn't get put in the lower bracket.

I'm disappointed you and Tim are here. neither one of you should be here.

I'm thinking Tim is town and I lean town on you so far.

u not poking at me is disconcerting tho.

I think both should be here as I think both can be scum.

Of course I can be. The day I rand wolf and can't manage 48 hours of being at least towny enough to stay off the blocks man I hang it up. The flip side of it is that I not only can be town, but from your perspective there should be an 80% chance that I AM town. So this blood lust seems a little weird. But no problem.

If you are in the four that survive this (and the game doesn't end) you will have at least two flips of confirmed town so you would want to know and understand their reads on the people who might be in the next batch. Not that being dead makes anyone right, but at least you'll know that their suspicions come from a good place. Conversely, should you become dead and flip town people are going to want to know more than "could be wolf' about the opinions you hold.

What about Mac makes you single him out? Where are your votes, and why?

Re: daisy post
I agree about tim's mischops, since I have had part in it before. and I really like this post from daisy and her questions make me think about gavial a bit.
Re: tim
again, I like this post and it makes me think a bit differently about Gavial compared to my earlier read on them.

[VOTE: Alison] aubergine
[VOTE: Gavial] aubergine
[VOTE: Made] aubergine
[VOTE: Poison] aubergine

He votes literally everyone except Tim and Daisy.

Yeah they look pretty damn aligned from where I'm standing. Maybe it's scum Mac trying to desperation antispew, but either way we should get rid of him.

Tim going from "there's a wolf between Mac and Alison, and I'm leaning towards Alison" -> "Alison is 90% scum" is a puzzling progression, and I think a convenient one.

okay, so um, I have a similar take like tim here and from my perspective, you are getting a little paranoid here?did mac never vote for his summates before? [I cannot recall if I have actually played with scum!mac or not]

[DaisyCloud]

[VOTE: Alison] aubergine
[VOTE: Gavial] aubergine
[VOTE: Made] aubergine
[VOTE: Poison] aubergine

Can I have your thoughts regarding Tim and Daisy please.

I believe Daisy is derp cleared.
I have no real thoughts on Tim. Been wolfy?

wait wait, why you scum-reading me?

I am very disappointed Marmot didn't get put in the lower bracket.

I'm disappointed you and Tim are here. neither one of you should be here.

I'm thinking Tim is town and I lean town on you so far.

u not poking at me is disconcerting tho.

Umm don't you think there should be some pro towns (as per your reads) in here to get rid off the scummy players?

I had stated previously that I think Tim to be one of my strongest town reads. I also said that I highly doubt that we will be lucky/clever/insightful enough on day 1 to get all 3 mafia into the second bracket. it could happen, they all may be here already but I have doubts. there have been games were town correctly pegged all mafia very early in game and won, so that might be the case here.

it was my thought that Tim should have remained in bracket 1 to help find the other scum and put them in bracket 2. that he shouldn't be here until nite 2 or nite 3.

we need good town in bracket 2 so scum can't dominate and we need good strong town in bracket 1 to hunt out whatever scum might be hidden and we missed.

also we need good solid town to be in bracket 1 so based on interactions and flips and mechanics and all of that be able to figure out people's alignments. imho I feel Tim is one of the best at that. and has a good eye at catching slips too.

Tim being here in bracket 2 early isn't detrimental to town. it's just imho not the best move. can't change it now tho.

He is here now, and I don't want him yeeted out. Scum wants him gone because they know that he is good at what he does and will be good at helping to find them.

could I be wrong about Tim? Wifom exists. wim exists. so far though I haven't seen any slips, nor inconsistencies, nor weird logic, nor him just creating or helping to push false narratives.

[Poison]

Spoiler: show

I do not trust Alison one bit in the LB. Perhaps I will learn to gloss over Alison’s bravado in time like I have for Mac, but I don’t trust anyone who talks all high and mighty of their skills. No one is a mafia god.

You are probably town because of the x and + thing but I think it's absurd that you came away from my ISO saying that I'm talking all high and mighty of my skills when I have not mentioned my skill level one time this entire game. The only thing I've done is inform you that I have a good read on Mac and that I am convinced Mac and Tim and Daisy are scum.

Alison, "I have identified all three wolves with a high degree of certainty with no flips based off a few posts" is sort of a high and mighty claim about your skills.

Given the current state of affairs, and without placing a burden on other players to just assume you are town and trust you, what do you think is the optimum strategy for an ordinary town person in the lower bracket? Long term. I mean, sure "identify the three wolves that are all on lower bracket, eliminate them, ez game" is a great strat, but requires some prerequisites that may not be available.

It's not really a claim about my skills. It's a claim about my level of confidence in my reads. If you want to interpret me pushing on my scumreads with high confidence as me saying that I'm a mafia god that's on you. Anyone who knows me knows that is not how I operate.

I think the best strategy for an ordinary town person in the lower bracket is to just treat lower bracket as essentially a mountainous game where you have 4 votes. Play it as normal, identify any other town that may exist within the bracket, identify your scumreads, vote them out.

I can approve of this statement here, during hydra alison had explained the same thing to me. we were town. but honestly I think it is kind of NAI at this point, now that I have played some games with her.

[Poison]

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Alison] aubergine
[VOTE: Gavial] aubergine
[VOTE: Made] aubergine
[VOTE: Poison] aubergine

Can I have your thoughts regarding Tim and Daisy please.

I believe Daisy is derp cleared.
I have no real thoughts on Tim. Been wolfy?

wait wait, why you scum-reading me?

I am very disappointed Marmot didn't get put in the lower bracket.

I'm disappointed you and Tim are here. neither one of you should be here.

I'm thinking Tim is town and I lean town on you so far.

u not poking at me is disconcerting tho.

Umm don't you think there should be some pro towns (as per your reads) in here to get rid off the scummy players?
[/quote]

I had stated previously that I think Tim to be one of my strongest town reads. I also said that I highly doubt that we will be lucky/clever/insightful enough on day 1 to get all 3 mafia into the second bracket. it could happen, they all may be here already but I have doubts. there have been games were town correctly pegged all mafia very early in game and won, so that might be the case here.

it was my thought that Tim should have remained in bracket 1 to help find the other scum and put them in bracket 2. that he shouldn't be here until nite 2 or nite 3.

we need good town in bracket 2 so scum can't dominate and we need good strong town in bracket 1 to hunt out whatever scum might be hidden and we missed.

also we need good solid town to be in bracket 1 so based on interactions and flips and mechanics and all of that be able to figure out people's alignments. imho I feel Tim is one of the best at that. and has a good eye at catching slips too.

Tim being here in bracket 2 early isn't detrimental to town. it's just imho not the best move. can't change it now tho.

He is here now, and I don't want him yeeted out. Scum wants him gone because they know that he is good at what he does and will be good at helping to find them.

could I be wrong about Tim? Wifom exists. wim exists. so far though I haven't seen any slips, nor inconsistencies, nor weird logic, nor him just creating or helping to push false narratives.
[/quote]

I see thanks for explaining.

This worked the exact opposite of the way it should have

you pop with the most random thing lmao. why shouldn't I scum read you? btw, what were you expecting in the first place?

This worked the exact opposite of the way it should have

Alison and Mac hard wolf reading each other sort of set the terms. The good news is that I am pretty confident that one of them is right and the other is a wolf, because I don't really see both of them being wrong as likely. They know each other too well. My inclination here is to just get comprehensive reads lists from both of them, then kill them both to see which one to follow.

What to do with the other two kills is the complicated part. I don't think following Alison before flipping her is ideal, because for one thing I am town and will be useful later, and for another I have minimal faith in the associative read on Daisy who has seemed reasonably towny.

mindmeld tbh. I was thinking the exact same thing about Mac and alison. I am not sure who is right yet but I'm inclined to assume that only one of them is right. I definitely don't think they are scum together, and someone has caught the other and the latter is just pretending.

[Gavial]

Gavial is actually lock town for trying to solve people in the other bracket

@MacDougall
You wanna sheep Alison and you have voted me.
Remove your vote on me.
If you already have. Thank You.

@Timsup2nothin
Actually surprising enough TSP is a pretty good reader, had some accurate reads last game.
Can’t remember entirely how I came to the conclusion he is town but I’m willing to trust it and allow him to let me see why. Not to mention when I claimed I TR’ed them some of the peeps from the winners bracket completely went against them hard (also you).
I don’t have any real experience with made but I know how Tony plays scum from legit bussing him on my first game on this site all the way up until like Day 5 so trust me when I say TSP is Town.

31 Posts Remain

[Gavial]

LOLOLOLOL...gosh Alison, why would the whole game have swallowed that narrative whole? You think it was ME that sold it? Get a grip. This is the Syndicate. NO ONE here listens to me. You and Mac sold that. Now you are trying to reverse spin off of it without giving up the associative reads you made off of it back when it was the fixed point you were building your entire reads list on.

I mean I could honestly see it.
I could see you pushing and going along with it and then when Mac 180’ed on Alison you panicked and needed someone on your side and Daisy wasn’t enough so you are trying to use me to save your skin if your mafia.
Not saying that’s the case, but if your mafia it is.
I don’t think you are partners with Daisy.
IRDC about @Alison whole read on Daisy.
Although I would like to see some reads from this guy @TonyStarkPrime

I think if you have a partner here it’s Made or Poison.
Reason why I want Me, TSP and Daisy to go to Night 2 and only bring 1 of you or made with us.

Probably going to wall post after this.
28 Posts Remain (I’m making my own post limit that’s lower then 100)

[Poison]

Spoiler: show

@DaisyCloud Response.

@falcon45ca is derp cleared due as how he responded to @Marmot regarding the post of theirs.

Saying how it’s not VT but the Rolecard says town. The way he responded to it felt like town knowing and thinking this.
Last game Esooa did something similar where they thought they were town as I’ll admit the role PM never stated you were town.
Falcon questioned it and I SR’ed him that entire game until we lost and he was town and then he hated me for it.
Yet I voted Esooa anyway so LOL. I like to vote IC’s I guess.

Who says I SR Alison?
I just believe the fact there is scum within them and Mac.
Alison willing to sacrifice themselves for Mac but Mac refusing to do the same.
Sus tbh.

Tim is more of a gut then anything.
One I want to follow.

I have a smaller gut hit on Poison but that’s scum only in an Alison!Town world.

Your PoE because you aren’t ObvTown/IC?
TSP is though.

Yeah I want to take Me, Daisy, Made and TSP into Night 2.

Can you elaborate why you think alison is sus and mac not because of those line of thoughts? and why do you think I'm scum only when alison is town? @Gavial

Didn’t even ping Mog and they viewing thread.
Convincing me more and more Mog is scum in winners bracket.
But I’m also quite paranoid dough.

i don't think angleshooting is allowed.

Since when and where should you ever compare yourself to made?

I didn't. I questioned you about the fact you said nothing about him until you arrived at "yeah take Made to N2."

To me the real sort of level comparison for Made is TSP. Both are very cool heads who if town will be reliable to make well thought out decisions. Both are just pretty null reads currently who have not committed to anything that is likely to either clear or condemn them any time soon. So I think either one of them is a fine fourth, and either one of them can die.

I think Daisy is good active leadership, and I think you and I are good offsets for each other. I also think that both of us need that offset for the same general reasons that I don't think letting either Alison or Mac go forward would be a good idea.

If Daisy, TSP, and Made agree that killing Mac and Alison plus you and me is a good idea I could probably back that.

I think I wanna town read you tim!

I may change my vote from You to Made but I want Poison gone.

why do you want me gone?

[Poison]

LOLOLOLOL...gosh Alison, why would the whole game have swallowed that narrative whole? You think it was ME that sold it? Get a grip. This is the Syndicate. NO ONE here listens to me. You and Mac sold that. Now you are trying to reverse spin off of it without giving up the associative reads you made off of it back when it was the fixed point you were building your entire reads list on.

I mean I could honestly see it.
I could see you pushing and going along with it and then when Mac 180’ed on Alison you panicked and needed someone on your side and Daisy wasn’t enough so you are trying to use me to save your skin if your mafia.
Not saying that’s the case, but if your mafia it is.
I don’t think you are partners with Daisy.
IRDC about @Alison whole read on Daisy.
Although I would like to see some reads from this guy @TonyStarkPrime

I think if you have a partner here it’s Made or Poison.
Reason why I want Me, TSP and Daisy to go to Night 2 and only bring 1 of you or made with us.

Probably going to wall post after this.
28 Posts Remain (I’m making my own post limit that’s lower then 100)

umm among ALison and Mac who do you want to see later, and why?

[Gavial]

Spoiler: show

@DaisyCloud Response.

@falcon45ca is derp cleared due as how he responded to @Marmot regarding the post of theirs.

Saying how it’s not VT but the Rolecard says town. The way he responded to it felt like town knowing and thinking this.
Last game Esooa did something similar where they thought they were town as I’ll admit the role PM never stated you were town.
Falcon questioned it and I SR’ed him that entire game until we lost and he was town and then he hated me for it.
Yet I voted Esooa anyway so LOL. I like to vote IC’s I guess.

Who says I SR Alison?
I just believe the fact there is scum within them and Mac.
Alison willing to sacrifice themselves for Mac but Mac refusing to do the same.
Sus tbh.

Tim is more of a gut then anything.
One I want to follow.

I have a smaller gut hit on Poison but that’s scum only in an Alison!Town world.

Your PoE because you aren’t ObvTown/IC?
TSP is though.

Yeah I want to take Me, Daisy, Made and TSP into Night 2.

Can you elaborate why you think alison is sus and mac not because of those line of thoughts? and why do you think I'm scum only when alison is town? @Gavial

Didn’t even ping Mog and they viewing thread.
Convincing me more and more Mog is scum in winners bracket.
But I’m also quite paranoid dough.

i don't think angleshooting is allowed.

Since when and where should you ever compare yourself to made?

I didn't. I questioned you about the fact you said nothing about him until you arrived at "yeah take Made to N2."

To me the real sort of level comparison for Made is TSP. Both are very cool heads who if town will be reliable to make well thought out decisions. Both are just pretty null reads currently who have not committed to anything that is likely to either clear or condemn them any time soon. So I think either one of them is a fine fourth, and either one of them can die.

I think Daisy is good active leadership, and I think you and I are good offsets for each other. I also think that both of us need that offset for the same general reasons that I don't think letting either Alison or Mac go forward would be a good idea.

If Daisy, TSP, and Made agree that killing Mac and Alison plus you and me is a good idea I could probably back that.

I think I wanna town read you tim!

I may change my vote from You to Made but I want Poison gone.

why do you want me gone?

I want this gone.
Never said I didn’t think Mac was sus
Never said I think Alison IS sus
Calls my thoughts angle shooting.
Seems to like Tim. Tim and him have partner equality.
Hmm
I want you gone cause of this, gut and the fact I don’t see you doing anything this game that’s gonna really completely help town nor trust you enough to do so.
@DaisyCloud
May want to reconsider your Tim read if Poison flips Scum.
Make sure Poison doesn’t come to night 2.
I’d prefer having made night 2 instead of Tim but the day hasn’t ended yet and that’s the only thing that I’d change my mind on.

[Gavial]

[VOTE: TonyStarkPrime ] aubergine he looks like he randed mafia and is playing it safe. yes, I read his iso.

That’s his town meta.
His scum meta is he pushes agenda and has enough content to where your conflicted on him and you clearly aren’t.
He’s also one to join a competing wagon as scum even if it’s his scum bud.
He’s just a little bit more, Y’know like Tim? But not that heavy on content per post.
I don’t know Tim’s meta but I do know Tony’s and trust me when I say this is his Town’s and Marmot’s too.
Trust me on this @DaisyCloud and remove your vote.

[Poison]

I want this gone.
Never said I didn’t think Mac was sus
Never said I think Alison IS sus

look below

Who says I SR Alison?
I just believe the fact there is scum within them and Mac.
Alison willing to sacrifice themselves for Mac but Mac refusing to do the same.
Sus tbh.

@Gavial hmmm

Re: Angleshooting
I think people watching the thread and not replying is something that falls under "angleshooting"if I'm not wrong, at least that's what I've known from my forum and a few others.

Seems to like Tim. Tim and him have partner equality.

I seemed to like you too. Didn't we have a good partner equity?

I want you gone cause of this, gut and the fact I don’t see you doing anything this game that’s gonna really completely help town nor trust you enough to do so.

so at the end it's just gut? or you are trying hard to make a case by dodging and denying, mostly the latter. um?
Also, I'm a she.

[Gavial]

I want this gone.
Never said I didn’t think Mac was sus
Never said I think Alison IS sus

look below

Who says I SR Alison?
I just believe the fact there is scum within them and Mac.
Alison willing to sacrifice themselves for Mac but Mac refusing to do the same.
Sus tbh.

@Gavial hmmm

Re: Angleshooting
I think people watching the thread and not replying is something that falls under "angleshooting"if I'm not wrong, at least that's what I've known from my forum and a few others.

Seems to like Tim. Tim and him have partner equality.

I seemed to like you too. Didn't we have a good partner equity?

I want you gone cause of this, gut and the fact I don’t see you doing anything this game that’s gonna really completely help town nor trust you enough to do so.

so at the end it's just gut? or you are trying hard to make a case by dodging and denying, mostly the latter. um?
Also, I'm a she.

Yeah I said I’m little sus at Mac and Null on Alison.
LOL LoOk At YoU.

Damn I said equality you knew straight away the proper term is equity, that how much you like Tim?
My point is I have you 2 as most likely scum buddies on Losers Bracket and that posts doesn’t in anyway partly dismiss it but rather increase the fact that it could be accurate.
It’s more like we decide the ones we feel will be best going into Night 2, people we can at least kinda trust and you aren’t one of them.
Also, sorry didn’t realize you were a she.

[Poison]

I want this gone.
Never said I didn’t think Mac was sus
Never said I think Alison IS sus

look below

Who says I SR Alison?
I just believe the fact there is scum within them and Mac.
Alison willing to sacrifice themselves for Mac but Mac refusing to do the same.
Sus tbh.

@Gavial hmmm

Re: Angleshooting
I think people watching the thread and not replying is something that falls under "angleshooting"if I'm not wrong, at least that's what I've known from my forum and a few others.

Seems to like Tim. Tim and him have partner equality.

I seemed to like you too. Didn't we have a good partner equity?

I want you gone cause of this, gut and the fact I don’t see you doing anything this game that’s gonna really completely help town nor trust you enough to do so.

so at the end it's just gut? or you are trying hard to make a case by dodging and denying, mostly the latter. um?
Also, I'm a she.

Yeah I said I’m little sus at Mac and Null on Alison.
LOL LoOk At YoU.

Damn I said equality you knew straight away the proper term is equity, that how much you like Tim?
My point is I have you 2 as most likely scum buddies on Losers Bracket and that posts doesn’t in anyway partly dismiss it but rather increase the fact that it could be accurate.
It’s more like we decide the ones we feel will be best going into Night 2, people we can at least kinda trust and you aren’t one of them.
Also, sorry didn’t realize you were a she.

I mean, I did ask you for clarification and to elaborate your views on those line of thoughts, hm?

I don't mind being proven wrong, so I can look at me,dw.

I don't understand what is even your case with the proper usage of a term. I mean, "partner equality" does not make any sense in that post? so it must be partner equity you meant?

I can't make any comment on what you think about my participation and contribution to the game but I am not quite satisfied with your case against me. Some of your points does not even make much sense.

I don't mind getting yeeted, because even if there's a chance that we lynch 3 of the scums tonight, a townie has to die, I don't see why I wouldn't place myself before other much townier people to get lynched tonight.

I'm continuing my argument because, if we don't win tonight (pretty sure we won't) we might get a better grasp on other's statements and arguments against a flipped player. So if you are in Night 2 and I'm not, or vice versa, no matter who flips, we can try to make a vague judgement on the other.

[Poison]

I'll go get dinner.

[DaisyCloud]

looking at this interaction between gavial and poison my conclusion is poison is most likely town.

I think it could be a bit of a TvT things and some misunderstanding and/or clash of views and playstyles, and nit picking grammar.

one of them could be a wolf. idk enough about either of them to know which one is the wolf here and which is town tho.

this could be a case of wVw but I doubt it. while fabricating an argument and clashing in game thread is a known tactic for scum this doesn't look like that to me imho.

anyway, my point is I'm not likely to vote out poison. plus poison made a comment about if they should be yeeted and their thoughts
on it.. any town should have that type of mindset. could poison be scum, had fabricated that mindset after reading my comment about how Alison is doing the opposite of that and Alison is being anti-town with her bargain? yes, Wifom is a thing. I don't think it is fabricated tho. seems like a logical flow etc.

[DaisyCloud]

[VOTE: TonyStarkPrime ] aubergine he looks like he randed mafia and is playing it safe. yes, I read his iso.

That’s his town meta.
His scum meta is he pushes agenda and has enough content to where your conflicted on him and you clearly aren’t.
He’s also one to join a competing wagon as scum even if it’s his scum bud.
He’s just a little bit more, Y’know like Tim? But not that heavy on content per post.
I don’t know Tim’s meta but I do know Tony’s and trust me when I say this is his Town’s and Marmot’s too.
Trust me on this @DaisyCloud and remove your vote.

I have played games with Tony tho. and I have seen his scum game. iirc his 3rd party game too.

he does this thing where he rages and thunderdomes too.

I do not see him ever being similar to Tim far as playstyle goes.

Tony does this thing where he plays it safe a bit then will latch on to something and run with it. he hasn't done that either.

I could cut him some slack and chock things up to it being only nite one.. except we gotta vote out 4 people. you would think he be in game voicing his reads, thoughts, opinions, asking questions and answering them too. you would think he be voicing his concerns and addressing concerns on him too.

you would think Tony be looking at the different narratives showcased in game thread and voicing his thoughts on it too. or something.

idk, maybe I'm putting to much on Tony, but I don't think so. he is regardless of his alignment a big presence in game, much like MacDougall and Tim. and I don't see his presence. I see only his lack of it.

multiple people have pinged him and multiple people have tried to talk to him. idk what is going on.

we can't know if he doesn't post.

[Timsup2nothin]

[unvote]DaisyCloud[/unvote]

It probably is Tim but the question is who is he with. He has deliberately left no associatives in his ISO because he knew he was going to loser's.

LOLOLOLOLOL...
"Mac has no one trying to save him, must be town"
"Alison has no associatives, must be town."
"Tim deliberately leaves no associatives because he's just a wolf."

So you even listen to yourself?

[Poison]

I'm not yet sure whom to vote yet. But I'm not voting tim here. Probably not voting Made [haven't interacted with them /have no meta /nothing felt like AI (At least the ones I read so far) or Daisy cloud either ( found some good posts from her).

I won't be voting for 4 people if I'm unable to find suitable ones. I feel like I should choose one from alison and Mac tbh. For I feel like there is at least one scum in there, most likely.

[Timsup2nothin]

LOLOLOLOL...gosh Alison, why would the whole game have swallowed that narrative whole? You think it was ME that sold it? Get a grip. This is the Syndicate. NO ONE here listens to me. You and Mac sold that. Now you are trying to reverse spin off of it without giving up the associative reads you made off of it back when it was the fixed point you were building your entire reads list on.

I mean I could honestly see it.
I could see you pushing and going along with it and then when Mac 180’ed on Alison you panicked and needed someone on your side and Daisy wasn’t enough so you are trying to use me to save your skin if your mafia.
Not saying that’s the case, but if your mafia it is.
I don’t think you are partners with Daisy.
IRDC about @Alison whole read on Daisy.
Although I would like to see some reads from this guy @TonyStarkPrime

I think if you have a partner here it’s Made or Poison.
Reason why I want Me, TSP and Daisy to go to Night 2 and only bring 1 of you or made with us.

Probably going to wall post after this.
28 Posts Remain (I’m making my own post limit that’s lower then 100)

You need some meta. I don't panic. I certainly don't panic over things I anticipate, and Mac and Alison doing 180s on each other was certainly predictable.

Both of them think as town that they are totally indispensable, and faced with a four out of eight elimination and people saying "kill them both and let Nanook sort them out" they would ally with their number one wolf read even if they had a red peek just to stay alive. The way this has gone is pretty much NAI. One spins as wolf, the other spins as town convinced they are more important to keep alive than whatever townie gets sacrificed in their place.

I don't see any indication that Mac considered the setup and consequences until I pointed out that yes we are killing more people right here right now than there are wolves in the game so a "but I'm town you don't want to kill me" protest is pointless.

Alison is STILL playing as if she can just bend the setup to her will. "Tim isn't playing his usual town game"...well, yeah, usually as town I kill one person at a time. "We should just play this as mountainous"...sure, one of the features of mountainous is voting for half the player list at a single shot, right? Oh, wait, no it isn't.

[Poison]

[VOTE: Gavial] aubergine

I'll put an alarm and be back before EOD.