Modern Family Hydra Mafia [GAME END]

[Akemi Hazelnut]

Tim to be clear I was asking for your read on TSPIC.

[Bottom Text]

Is now the correct time to start pushing Joseph or is it better to wait another hour? I don't want it to lose momentum before it goes over

i honestly didn't mind mac's posts that much.

if joseph is poop then i fully endorse the push because ive yet to see anything that changed my mind on that slot yet

[Honey & Vinegar]

claims are not useful unless you have a confirmable role

having a dead pr and two outed prs is worse than having a dead pr

[trans rights]

tspic's response to my "why are you calling this fake" post was purely reactive. there was 0 commentary on any of what i was actually saying given my stance on the topic and that seems unnatural to me.

I gave you my reasons for townreading T&T, i don't really know what more you expect from it

okay look, this is why i think it's unnatural.

you're a villager, right? you see another player post something that's the equivalent to mafia theory. i am proposing that the way people use the word "fake" is incorrect because wolves fake stuff less than villagers think.

you didn't interact with that at all. you only responded to my question of why you thought two and through's pushback was fake.

i'm going to use mill crab in the reverse mentor/mentee game in mu. i made a post that basically went into the theory of why villagers shouldn't be self-aware about their own posts. of course plenty of villagers are self-aware of their own posts and even flaunt said self-awareness. if you want a scorching hot take, i honestly think meta should extend to specifically people's wolf games, and not their village games whatsoever. anyways, that's for another time. the point is, in this game mill crab completely engaged with my mafia theory post and told me why he thought self-awareness wasn't wolfy, and it's only wolfy on a surface level. i've come a long ways since that game, and i generally agree that self-awareness is only wolfy in certain contexts, and otherwise nai.

i think this is the type of stuff that interests villagers. they see someone post an approach to the game of mafia, and they engage with it. in my mind, that's very natural for a villager to do; it directly has to do with how they're going to approach the game, and they have to think if the way i'm approaching wolfreads or village reads has verity. that's why that is villagery.

but again, all you did was answer my question. that's cool, but the fact that you didn't really evaluate my post beyond my question, and still haven't is wolfy to me.

[TonyStarkPlaysItCool]

claims are not useful unless you have a confirmable role

having a dead pr and two outed prs is worse than having a dead pr

It's a confirmable role but it doesn't clear my slot

[Honey & Vinegar]

yeah by confirmable role really i meant "confirms the alignment of yourself or someone else"

[trans rights]

that doesn't really address my post though tspic

tim is a dynamic player. you can tell if you've read a decent amount of games from him. i think there's also the possibility of the environment changing how he plays.

my point is that pinning down tim with meta like this is unreliable. i think tim is too good of a player to be pigeonholed by meta in my eyes. a change in playstyle isn't necessarily something he needs to fake. he can play any way he wants for any reason.

Yes he can change his playstyle whenever he wants. I hate meta reads as well but they have proved effective for me in the past. Until I see a game where Tim is friendly with everyone as town then I think the meta read is a sound one at the moment.

Also, he clearly isn't changing his playstyle here though because his somewhat anti-town playstyle is happening before our eyes.

sure. that's not alignment indicative though.

I know I just granted you a pass to LYLO, but geeezzzz this is the entire point. You keep dismissing everything anyone says about how I could be town, using "Tim can do <fill in pretty much anything> as a wolf though," and yes that is verifiably true. But you are totally redusing to consider that I am equally verifiable as capable of just about anything as town, even though you know that it is true. That's the problem with your "confident read" here.

I have literally done nothing that is genuinely alignment indicative for me, so how did you get so confident that you are lock stuck in this wolf read?

my read was also based around hollow, not just you. regardless, if i'm not going to use meta to read someone, i might as well use non-meta wolfhunting techniques, which is what i did. what you're basically suggesting is that you're unreadable, which is... arrogant and probably untrue to say the very least.

And yet you basically have agreed with it, which makes it marginally less arrogant and much less likely to be untrue. You have consistently responded "wolfTim could fake that," "wolfTim is capable of that," "that is something wolfTim could do," every single time someone said "could be town." I just agreed with you.

absolutely but i maintain what i said.

[TonyStarkPlaysItCool]

tspic's response to my "why are you calling this fake" post was purely reactive. there was 0 commentary on any of what i was actually saying given my stance on the topic and that seems unnatural to me.

I gave you my reasons for townreading T&T, i don't really know what more you expect from it

okay look, this is why i think it's unnatural.

you're a villager, right? you see another player post something that's the equivalent to mafia theory. i am proposing that the way people use the word "fake" is incorrect because wolves fake stuff less than villagers think.

you didn't interact with that at all. you only responded to my question of why you thought two and through's pushback was fake.

i'm going to use mill crab in the reverse mentor/mentee game in mu. i made a post that basically went into the theory of why villagers shouldn't be self-aware about their own posts. of course plenty of villagers are self-aware of their own posts and even flaunt said self-awareness. if you want a scorching hot take, i honestly think meta should extend to specifically people's wolf games, and not their village games whatsoever. anyways, that's for another time. the point is, in this game mill crab completely engaged with my mafia theory post and told me why he thought self-awareness wasn't wolfy, and it's only wolfy on a surface level. i've come a long ways since that game, and i generally agree that self-awareness is only wolfy in certain contexts, and otherwise nai.

i think this is the type of stuff that interests villagers. they see someone post an approach to the game of mafia, and they engage with it. in my mind, that's very natural for a villager to do; it directly has to do with how they're going to approach the game, and they have to think if the way i'm approaching wolfreads or village reads has verity. that's why that is villagery.

but again, all you did was answer my question. that's cool, but the fact that you didn't really evaluate my post beyond my question, and still haven't is wolfy to me.

I didn't respond to the mafia theory because I don't think it has much relevance to the game, and tbh I don't really get what you're talking about.

[TonyStarkPlaysItCool]

Why do you find not having extended discussions on mafia theory is wolfy?

[Julinook]

Is now the correct time to start pushing Joseph or is it better to wait another hour? I don't want it to lose momentum before it goes over

i honestly didn't mind mac's posts that much.

if joseph is poop then i fully endorse the push because ive yet to see anything that changed my mind on that slot yet

Joseph is, indeed, poop

[trans rights]

Why do you find not having extended discussions on mafia theory is wolfy?

i... literally spent the entire post explaining why. mafia theory changes the way villagers look at the game, but it doesn't change the way wolves play the game.

also was my post really that incomprehensible.

[TwoAndThrough]

Tim to be clear I was asking for your read on TSPIC.

Under the radar is standard TSP play. I think JPIC taking a stand for me based on meta is really bad, but typical of town JPIC so I lean town I guess, but not significantly off null.

[Honey & Vinegar]

approx postcounts

181 Akemi Hazelnut (Alison & nutella)
166 Bottom Text (Esooa & katze)
171 trans rights (vanity & Mistyx)
140 TwoAndThrough (Timsup2nuthin & hollowkatt)
117 Timsup2gettinserious (Syn & Hyena)
117 Toopy and Binoo (Gavial & Spak)
113 Julinook (juliets & NANOOK)
109 Poop Explosions (c4e5g3d5 & MacDougall)
95 TonyStarkPlaysItCool (TonyStarkPrime & Justplayingitcool)
46 Honey & Vinegar (Urist & Mantisdreamz)
43 Mana (Made & Dana)
42 FalconKnows (falcon45ca & BoKnows)
13 The Walrus (fingersplints & Roxy)

[TonyStarkPlaysItCool]

Tim to be clear I was asking for your read on TSPIC.

Under the radar is standard TSP play. I think JPIC taking a stand for me based on meta is really bad, but typical of town JPIC so I lean town I guess, but not significantly off null.

I took a stand on you in CoV based on meta as well though

[TonyStarkPlaysItCool]

I think like 9/10ths of our posts have come from me

[TonyStarkPlaysItCool]

Why do you find not having extended discussions on mafia theory is wolfy?

i... literally spent the entire post explaining why. mafia theory changes the way villagers look at the game, but it doesn't change the way wolves play the game.

also was my post really that incomprehensible.

Alright, okay. and?

[TonyStarkPlaysItCool]

Like I genuinely don't understand the point you're trying to make

[trans rights]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa times infinity

[TwoAndThrough]

approx postcounts

181 Akemi Hazelnut (Alison & nutella)
166 Bottom Text (Esooa & katze)
171 trans rights (vanity & Mistyx)
140 TwoAndThrough (Timsup2nuthin & hollowkatt)
117 Timsup2gettinserious (Syn & Hyena)
117 Toopy and Binoo (Gavial & Spak)
113 Julinook (juliets & NANOOK)
109 Poop Explosions (c4e5g3d5 & MacDougall)
95 TonyStarkPlaysItCool (TonyStarkPrime & Justplayingitcool)
46 Honey & Vinegar (Urist & Mantisdreamz)
43 Mana (Made & Dana)
42 FalconKnows (falcon45ca & BoKnows)
13 The Walrus (fingersplints & Roxy)

wolfy

[Julinook]

I get the point but I think its more player dependent than alignment dependent

[Akemi Hazelnut]

im not loving jpic's posts in the last couple pages

[TonyStarkPlaysItCool]

Tim knows I took a stand on him based on meta in CoV. The fact he seems to be more self aware that I am meta reading him like this in this game feels like a good look

[TonyStarkPlaysItCool]

im not loving jpic's posts in the last couple pages

Why?

[trans rights]

mist says the reason people don't understand my posts sometimes is because i write lots of words and people dont like to read

understandable.

[TonyStarkPlaysItCool]

I get the point but I think its more player dependent than alignment dependent

wut

[TonyStarkPlaysItCool]

tbh Im still going to claim regardless

[trans rights]

hello

am i needed currently

~mawile

[Akemi Hazelnut]

Tim knows I took a stand on him based on meta in CoV. The fact he seems to be more self aware that I am meta reading him like this in this game feels like a good look

How is that a good look

[Julinook]

I get the point but I think its more player dependent than alignment dependent

wut

Town isn't more likely to want to engage with theory discussion than mafia, certain players are more likely to than others.

[TonyStarkPlaysItCool]

mist says the reason people don't understand my posts sometimes is because i write lots of words and people dont like to read

understandable.

Just use simple words and explain how it fits to the read with tim

[Julinook]

Tim knows I took a stand on him based on meta in CoV. The fact he seems to be more self aware that I am meta reading him like this in this game feels like a good look

How is that a good look

Townie mindmeld

[The Walrus]

approx postcounts

181 Akemi Hazelnut (Alison & nutella)
166 Bottom Text (Esooa & katze)
171 trans rights (vanity & Mistyx)
140 TwoAndThrough (Timsup2nuthin & hollowkatt)
117 Timsup2gettinserious (Syn & Hyena)
117 Toopy and Binoo (Gavial & Spak)
113 Julinook (juliets & NANOOK)
109 Poop Explosions (c4e5g3d5 & MacDougall)
95 TonyStarkPlaysItCool (TonyStarkPrime & Justplayingitcool)
46 Honey & Vinegar (Urist & Mantisdreamz)
43 Mana (Made & Dana)
42 FalconKnows (falcon45ca & BoKnows)
13 The Walrus (fingersplints & Roxy)

Some of you guys post way too much

[TonyStarkPlaysItCool]

Tim knows I took a stand on him based on meta in CoV. The fact he seems to be more self aware that I am meta reading him like this in this game feels like a good look

How is that a good look

Because in CoV he didn't care at all

[Bottom Text]

Why do you find not having extended discussions on mafia theory is wolfy?

i... literally spent the entire post explaining why. mafia theory changes the way villagers look at the game, but it doesn't change the way wolves play the game.

also was my post really that incomprehensible.

this is the matpat tell

if you don't like game theory you're a fucking wolf

[Julinook]

approx postcounts

181 Akemi Hazelnut (Alison & nutella)
166 Bottom Text (Esooa & katze)
171 trans rights (vanity & Mistyx)
140 TwoAndThrough (Timsup2nuthin & hollowkatt)
117 Timsup2gettinserious (Syn & Hyena)
117 Toopy and Binoo (Gavial & Spak)
113 Julinook (juliets & NANOOK)
109 Poop Explosions (c4e5g3d5 & MacDougall)
95 TonyStarkPlaysItCool (TonyStarkPrime & Justplayingitcool)
46 Honey & Vinegar (Urist & Mantisdreamz)
43 Mana (Made & Dana)
42 FalconKnows (falcon45ca & BoKnows)
13 The Walrus (fingersplints & Roxy)

Some of you guys post way too much

Tbf there are two people to an account

But also yeah

[TonyStarkPlaysItCool]

Tim knows I took a stand on him based on meta in CoV. The fact he seems to be more self aware that I am meta reading him like this in this game feels like a good look

How is that a good look

Because in CoV he didn't care at all

Or at least he didn't really talk about it from what I can recall

[trans rights]

Why do you find not having extended discussions on mafia theory is wolfy?

i... literally spent the entire post explaining why. mafia theory changes the way villagers look at the game, but it doesn't change the way wolves play the game.

also was my post really that incomprehensible.

this is the matpat tell

if you don't like game theory you're a fucking wolf

this is like the third time this game where i've read one of your slot's posts and thought "katze, shut up"

i give like 60% odds that at least one of those posts was an esooa post

~mawile

[Akemi Hazelnut]

im not loving jpic's posts in the last couple pages

Why?

your response to pressure

kinda flaily and "im just gonna claim" rather than just...being towny

[Bottom Text]

Why do you find not having extended discussions on mafia theory is wolfy?

i... literally spent the entire post explaining why. mafia theory changes the way villagers look at the game, but it doesn't change the way wolves play the game.

also was my post really that incomprehensible.

this is the matpat tell

if you don't like game theory you're a fucking wolf

this is like the third time this game where i've read one of your slot's posts and thought "katze, shut up"

i give like 60% odds that at least one of those posts was an esooa post

~mawile

list the posts im curious

[Julinook]

Katze if I try to bury Joseph and he tries to claim something you better cc the fuck out of him kthx

[TonyStarkPlaysItCool]

im not loving jpic's posts in the last couple pages

Why?

your response to pressure

kinda flaily and "im just gonna claim" rather than just...being towny

I am playing as I normally do though

[trans rights]

Why do you find not having extended discussions on mafia theory is wolfy?

i... literally spent the entire post explaining why. mafia theory changes the way villagers look at the game, but it doesn't change the way wolves play the game.

also was my post really that incomprehensible.

this is the matpat tell

if you don't like game theory you're a fucking wolf

this is like the third time this game where i've read one of your slot's posts and thought "katze, shut up"

i give like 60% odds that at least one of those posts was an esooa post

~mawile

list the posts im curious

tbh it was definitely more than 3 that built into it

basically everything you said while i was asleep

~mawile

[trans rights]

mist says the reason people don't understand my posts sometimes is because i write lots of words and people dont like to read

understandable.

Just use simple words and explain how it fits to the read with tim

okay, this sounds like a "explain it like i'm 5" scenario so that's what i'm going to do.

i rand wolf in a game. i read the posts, and i give reads based on the posts. just because i have tmi doesn't mean i can't make reads. my thought process with reads is the same as a villager as it is as a wolf. if it's different, as a wolf i am slightly more likely to be accurate, or in other words, "right for the right reasons".

this applies to a lot of players i think. as a wolf, the goal isn't necessarily to fake as many reads as possible. that's not what i do as a wolf and i suspect it isn't what a lot of people do as a wolf. as a villager, you make reads based on posts. as a wolf, you're making reads based on posts in a way you do as a villager. the only difference is in what way the wolves can actually push their wincon, which is through pushing miseliminations, and getting townread. that's how you win the game of mafia as a wolf.

my point is you're not necessarily "faking" stuff just because you're a wolf. in theory, tmi should affect how wolves post in that way. but it's not the same in practice. the extent to which emotions and reads can occur are more similar between both alignments than it may seem.

[Timsup2gettinserious]

@Hyena please let me vote for TaT

I'm not caught up, but you can vote T&T! I don't have a strong preference at the moment who to go for.

Also, I can't post right now, buuuut I'll be around for EoD shenanigans. <3

- Hyena

[TwoAndThrough]

mist says the reason people don't understand my posts sometimes is because i write lots of words and people dont like to read

understandable.

I skipped the first line because too long...but "understandable" is always a town post

[TwoAndThrough]

Tim knows I took a stand on him based on meta in CoV. The fact he seems to be more self aware that I am meta reading him like this in this game feels like a good look

How is that a good look

Because in CoV he didn't care at all

Rumors of my caring here, or anywhere, are greatly exaggerated.

[Timsup2gettinserious]

@Hyena please let me vote for TaT

I'm not caught up, but you can vote T&T! I don't have a strong preference at the moment who to go for.

Also, I can't post right now, buuuut I'll be around for EoD shenanigans. <3

- Hyena

All I ask is that for now, don't vote for Trans Rights or Nutella+Alison. :P

[Timsup2gettinserious]

@Hyena please let me vote for TaT

I'm not caught up, but you can vote T&T! I don't have a strong preference at the moment who to go for.

Also, I can't post right now, buuuut I'll be around for EoD shenanigans. <3

- Hyena

All I ask is that for now, don't vote for Trans Rights or Nutella+Alison. :P

Probably not H&V either since it seemed like everyone was ignoring them, lol.

[The Walrus]

approx postcounts

181 Akemi Hazelnut (Alison & nutella)
166 Bottom Text (Esooa & katze)
171 trans rights (vanity & Mistyx)
140 TwoAndThrough (Timsup2nuthin & hollowkatt)
117 Timsup2gettinserious (Syn & Hyena)
117 Toopy and Binoo (Gavial & Spak)
113 Julinook (juliets & NANOOK)
109 Poop Explosions (c4e5g3d5 & MacDougall)
95 TonyStarkPlaysItCool (TonyStarkPrime & Justplayingitcool)
46 Honey & Vinegar (Urist & Mantisdreamz)
43 Mana (Made & Dana)
42 FalconKnows (falcon45ca & BoKnows)
13 The Walrus (fingersplints & Roxy)

Uuugggghhhhh
This is why I quit playing, tbh

[Julinook]

@Hyena please let me vote for TaT

I'm not caught up, but you can vote T&T! I don't have a strong preference at the moment who to go for.

Also, I can't post right now, buuuut I'll be around for EoD shenanigans. <3

- Hyena

All I ask is that for now, don't vote for Trans Rights or Nutella+Alison. :P

Or juliets+nanook, they've been super townie