Modern Family Hydra Mafia [GAME END]

[Toopy and Binoo]

honestly not exactly sure why mist v read mana. i mean i kinda see it in glimpses? but i find them mildly wolfy with some posts that are just blatantly bad.

Hello Town.
You know Mist usually has bad reads right?

[Akemi Hazelnut]

Why's a forced loverizer a village role?

why is it a wolf role, minus the bad target

if they were looking to use it to strongman the towncore why target hyena and not you

I don't think forced loverizer is either wolf or villager by default, I'm wolfreading it off the target, not the role itself.

Hyena got more townreads than me D1 but they could also have been given strongman priority because they were more correct D1.

[Timsup2gettinserious]

The question of why you would ever use your loverizer ability like this as town still points to H&V as a wolf regardless of rolecop whatever though. They can be a wolf that blind guessed Poop's flavor too.

I'm kinda nervous about how eager you are to call H&V wolf. :S I'm still unsure of it myself, even if I fully agree with you that their decision to loverize us is suspicious. The reason I wanted to do it was because Mac gave a 4-person PoE that included me AND H&V in it, and that if both of us did end up V/V, then he's probably full of shit and maybe mafia.

The way I see it is that there are three things loverizer does.

a) If someone else dies, you also die.
b) If you die, someone else also dies.
c) You get to chat with someone else behind the scenes.

a) is obviously pure downside. Therefore when choosing a loverizer target you'd pick either b) or c). If it's b) then you'd pick a scumread, so picking you doesn't make sense. If it's c) then you'd pick a townread, but a townread that is unlikely to get shot in the night due to a). In that scenario picking you doesn't make sense either.

That's why I have a hard time seeing the loverizer action as coming from town.

Alright, alright. Urist told me in our chat though that he thought there were others that were more likely to be NK'd over me. He didn't tell me who or why they were more likely to die over me, but it sounded like he had reasons? I'd want to hear them before allowing you guys to kill the both of us.

Also, what would your reasons for us being one of the more likely people getting NKed last night? Weren't you one of the people D1 saying that YOUR HYDRA was probably one of the more likely to die N1 just for the potential of becoming obvtown later in the game?

[Akemi Hazelnut]

In fact I gave H&V a strong townread D1 so if H&V is mafia loverizer they would almost certainly prefer to use their ability to kill Hyena and not me.

[trans rights]

ngl i think outting that you were loverized was terrible play especially given the gamestate but whatever

why? if h&v is a wolf wolves already know the loverize happened and the loverizer itself seems blatantly anti-town.

[Toopy and Binoo]

Even if H&V's a wolf we don't stab him here in case there's some anti-lover role.

And again all the "but why would scum" questions are meet with significantly stronger "but why would town" questions.

I’d stab him here because he claimed 2 actions.

He claimed 0

Didn’t he claim RoleCop on you and he proved to be lovers with Tim?

[Timsup2gettinserious]

In fact I gave H&V a strong townread D1 so if H&V is mafia loverizer they would almost certainly prefer to use their ability to kill Hyena and not me.

I gave them a townread, too, though?

[Akemi Hazelnut]

@Akemi Hazelnut
You claimed Strongman right?

No, I haven't claimed anything

Oh right.
You were softing Detection Immune yeah?

No I haven't softed anything

[trans rights]

honestly not exactly sure why mist v read mana. i mean i kinda see it in glimpses? but i find them mildly wolfy with some posts that are just blatantly bad.

Hello Town.
You know Mist usually has bad reads right?

please don't insult mist's capabilities, thank you.

[Toopy and Binoo]

In fact I gave H&V a strong townread D1 so if H&V is mafia loverizer they would almost certainly prefer to use their ability to kill Hyena and not me.

Not to mention both of them is my PoE and getting rid of both would help allot!

-Toopy

[Timsup2gettinserious]

ngl i think outting that you were loverized was terrible play especially given the gamestate but whatever

That's what I was afraid of. :< I'm terrible at mechanics and understand when to claim and when not to.

[Bottom Text]

Why's a forced loverizer a village role?

why is it a wolf role, minus the bad target

if they were looking to use it to strongman the towncore why target hyena and not you

I don't think forced loverizer is either wolf or villager by default, I'm wolfreading it off the target, not the role itself.

Hyena got more townreads than me D1 but they could also have been given strongman priority because they were more correct D1.

shrugze

guess it could just be a louder wolf vengeful but my gut says otherwise

ngl i think outting that you were loverized was terrible play especially given the gamestate but whatever

why? if h&v is a wolf wolves already know the loverize happened and the loverizer itself seems blatantly anti-town.

because there's decent odds i get shrugyeeted today since lolmech and if they're v/v then it's free doublekill for mafia tonight when it was completely unnecessary to paint that target

[Toopy and Binoo]

honestly not exactly sure why mist v read mana. i mean i kinda see it in glimpses? but i find them mildly wolfy with some posts that are just blatantly bad.

Hello Town.
You know Mist usually has bad reads right?

please don't insult mist's capabilities, thank you.

I’m saying it’s that they aren’t trusted reads so it’s better to follow your own!

-Toopy

[Timsup2gettinserious]

Why's a forced loverizer a village role?

why is it a wolf role, minus the bad target

if they were looking to use it to strongman the towncore why target hyena and not you

I don't think forced loverizer is either wolf or villager by default, I'm wolfreading it off the target, not the role itself.

Hyena got more townreads than me D1 but they could also have been given strongman priority because they were more correct D1.

Wait, I was more correct D1 than you? How?

[Toopy and Binoo]

Mist’s reads are 29% accurate.
Which is not that great.

-Toopy

[Poop Explosions]

Even if H&V's a wolf we don't stab him here in case there's some anti-lover role.

And again all the "but why would scum" questions are meet with significantly stronger "but why would town" questions.

I’d stab him here because he claimed 2 actions.

He claimed 0

Didn’t he claim RoleCop on you and he proved to be lovers with Tim?

I mean, he softed rolecop on me, and he's now confirmed lovers with Hyena/Sun, but he claimed neither.

[Akemi Hazelnut]

Also, what would your reasons for us being one of the more likely people getting NKed last night? Weren't you one of the people D1 saying that YOUR HYDRA was probably one of the more likely to die N1 just for the potential of becoming obvtown later in the game?

I don't think you were a super likely NK last night with an outed vig on the table regardless, and I agree that my slot and trans rights both have higher NK equity than yours. The point is not "you are going to die N1". The question is whether you're going to die at all. If you're using it as a neighborizer, you'd want to use it on someone who's both town and likely to survive to the end of the game, so you avoid giving mafia a free KP. This is awkward since you never know when the townie you put your ability on claims super cop or something, which is why I prefer to use this kind of role as a vigilante shot. But regardless if you were trying to find a townie that has low NK equity you'd probably look at people like julinooks or FalconKnows, not your slot.

[Toopy and Binoo]

Why's a forced loverizer a village role?

why is it a wolf role, minus the bad target

if they were looking to use it to strongman the towncore why target hyena and not you

I don't think forced loverizer is either wolf or villager by default, I'm wolfreading it off the target, not the role itself.

Hyena got more townreads than me D1 but they could also have been given strongman priority because they were more correct D1.

Wait, I was more correct D1 than you? How?

Cause scum targeted you.

[Toopy and Binoo]

You love them now

[trans rights]

honestly not exactly sure why mist v read mana. i mean i kinda see it in glimpses? but i find them mildly wolfy with some posts that are just blatantly bad.

Hello Town.
You know Mist usually has bad reads right?

please don't insult mist's capabilities, thank you.

I’m saying it’s that they aren’t trusted reads so it’s better to follow your own!

-Toopy

just stop talking to mist or i regarding this because i don't have the patience for this.

[Toopy and Binoo]

Even if H&V's a wolf we don't stab him here in case there's some anti-lover role.

And again all the "but why would scum" questions are meet with significantly stronger "but why would town" questions.

I’d stab him here because he claimed 2 actions.

He claimed 0

Didn’t he claim RoleCop on you and he proved to be lovers with Tim?

I mean, he softed rolecop on me, and he's now confirmed lovers with Hyena/Sun, but he claimed neither.

He big bad Wolf!

[Bottom Text]

i sure am glad seth hasn't changed a bit

[Toopy and Binoo]

Mist’s reads are 29% accurate.
Which is not that great.

-Toopy

Maybe 22% but I’ll move on from this!

-Toopy

[Akemi Hazelnut]

Wait, I was more correct D1 than you? How?

I'm not saying that, I'm saying "killed for reads" is one possible explanation for you being the strongman target over me.

[Akemi Hazelnut]

We are talking in circles. I just want to hear H&V's full claim and explanation for their loverizer target at this point.

@Honey &amp; Vinegar

[trans rights]

we're going to stop posting tonight for postcap reasons

i'll talk to mist about mana

[Akemi Hazelnut]

Also Gavial can you please stop trying to provoke people for no reason it's really fucking annoying

[Akemi Hazelnut]

we're going to stop posting tonight for postcap reasons

i'll talk to mist about mana

Yeah I'm probably going to stop posting tonight for postcap as well.

[Timsup2gettinserious]

Also, what would your reasons for us being one of the more likely people getting NKed last night? Weren't you one of the people D1 saying that YOUR HYDRA was probably one of the more likely to die N1 just for the potential of becoming obvtown later in the game?

I don't think you were a super likely NK last night with an outed vig on the table regardless, and I agree that my slot and trans rights both have higher NK equity than yours. The point is not "you are going to die N1". The question is whether you're going to die at all. If you're using it as a neighborizer, you'd want to use it on someone who's both town and likely to survive to the end of the game, so you avoid giving mafia a free KP. This is awkward since you never know when the townie you put your ability on claims super cop or something, which is why I prefer to use this kind of role as a vigilante shot. But regardless if you were trying to find a townie that has low NK equity you'd probably look at people like julinooks or FalconKnows, not your slot.

Okay, okay, this makes a little more sense. At the same time though, it didn't feel like Urist fully trusted us? Like, as I had mentioned, he wouldn't explain who they thought were more likely NK targets or why they had gone for me or others. Thus, I don't even know HOW much they townread us really. All they said is that they townread us and that they thought we were unlikely to eat a NK.

[Timsup2gettinserious]

We are talking in circles. I just want to hear H&V's full claim and explanation for their loverizer target at this point.

@Honey &amp; Vinegar

Yeah, I think this will help me process everything, too.

[Akemi Hazelnut]

@Akemi Hazelnut
You claimed Strongman right?

No, I haven't claimed anything

Oh right.
You were softing Detection Immune yeah?

what the fuck is this

[Akemi Hazelnut]

ngl i think outting that you were loverized was terrible play especially given the gamestate but whatever

yeah i kinda agree

[Timsup2gettinserious]

fwiw, urist's explanation was that there are at least three other slots ahead of us on the nk circuit

i have a low opinion of myself and no meta on hyena so dunno how sound that is

[Akemi Hazelnut]

fwiw, urist's explanation was that there are at least three other slots ahead of us on the nk circuit

i have a low opinion of myself and no meta on hyena so dunno how sound that is

That's... possibly even worse, no? If the game goes badly, and three people get NKed before Hyena, we could possibly be in FX by the time Hyena's "turn" to be NKed comes up. T/T lovers are a massive liability in endgame. If you reveal that lovers exist earlier than that, then Hyena jumps to the front of the NK circuit anyway, if you keep lovers' existence a secret, and Hyena gets shot near FX, we could potentially lose the game without even realizing we were in danger.

[Bottom Text]

anyway is now a good time to rescind my claim

.......



so, jokes aside

i think ive used like 80 posts today already and ive also unrelatedly learned what secondhand anger feels like due to post 2323 (and for these reasons i will go back to playing hades after this)

the flavor guessing = "rolecop" thing is... kinda dumb, imo. on both ends. "are you X flavor" is hella weird to ask just... in general? had poop not already claimed id say its like, mafia know X is a strong role or a LW or some bullshit. think assuming its immediately lockwolf is also a bit of an unreasonable leap

ive already said my piece on the lover thing. maybe it's a wolf role, it'd be a worse wolf vengeful in terms of wolf KP. still think the targetting is rly bad, and the explanation in 2333 makes decent amounts of sense if they thought they were just a neighborizer (and also makes claiming it even worse imo but im not gonna hammer that point any further)

i thought itd be funny to ask esooa to leave a message for thread but she said shes addicted to minecraft and needs me to remind her when to eat so i mean

we sure are gaming

[TonyStarkPlaysItCool]

Both heads of the Walrus making time to converse with each other in thread and doing nothing but whine about post counts while padding theirs is really aggravating.

Don't worry. I'm shooting them tonight.

We don’t believe your role claim. We know you are lying.

Yep!
I’m changing the vote to Tim!

-Toopy

oh my god

[TonyStarkPlaysItCool]

Anyway I'm just going to vote BT since trans rights has claimed that she doesn't believe her role, Poop's and BT's can coexist.

[VOTE: Bottom Text] aubergine

no don't do this

[TonyStarkPlaysItCool]

what's with all this loverizing bs

[Akemi Hazelnut]

what's with all this loverizing bs

i have no clue i'm letting alison figure it out tbh

[Poop Explosions]

BT's 4 voters - Akemi Hazelnut, Mana, trans rights, TwoAndThrough
Mana's 3 voters - Julinook, TonyStarkPlaysItCool, Poop Explosions
TwoAndThrough's 4 voters - Timsup2gettinserious, Toopy and Binoo, Honey & Vinegar, Bottom Text
TSPIC voter - The Walrus
No voters - Falcon

Hmmm. The Walrus then dies? Only voter on the TSPIC wagon. Probably never a wolf kill they would make it's too obvious.
Mana wagon is very pure.
But Mana is voting for BT in a tie. If Mana wagon is pure >rand wolf and that means their vote is >rand on a town.
So if Mana is a wolf, and TAT WAS a wolf, then the other teammate is probably either trans rights or Akemi Hazelnut, or an absent FalconKnows I guess?
But Akemi Hazelnut is currently operating inside that very POE so it's almost certainly not them. Trans Rights also playing the POE game in a tight window.
Makes me think TAT is always a wolf. Which strongly clears all the TAT voters. But then why did none of them die? Why kill The Walrus? Perhaps @Bottom Text did you actually get an action in?

Doesn't QUITE stack up. So what if TAT AND BT are both town. The janitoring might be a passive (no flips til you die) wolf role maybe.
Mana wolf equity is through the roof no matter what. I take TSPIC and Julinook as town for it. I take the kill as pure wifom. I take the mafia teammates of mana to be probably Falcon and ONE active wolf in this case.
I think this makes the most sense. Falcon + someone getting more townreads, that isn't on the Mana wagon. I feel like ... Timsup2gettingserious profiles.

So, I talked to Syn, and he's okay with me revealing what happened to us last night.

H&V loverized us last night. We've got a lover chat with them right now. I've been going back and forth whether I fully trust them or not because I don't understand why they thought we wouldn't be considered a potential NK after the amount of townreads we got D1?

Wouldn't a town loveriser target someone they thought was mafia?

[Poop Explosions]

Even if H&V's a wolf we don't stab him here in case there's some anti-lover role.

And again all the "but why would scum" questions are meet with significantly stronger "but why would town" questions.

true

[Poop Explosions]

I am at the point where I just wanna sleepwalk flip mana

@Mana claim lol

[Poop Explosions]

it doesn't super make sense to me for that role to be a scumrole cuz it's just like really difficult and janky to use as a scumrole...

like the obvious use is to use it to kill a strong town but in doing so you essentially become outed, so targeting a middling town is the way to play it if you're scum, OR town I guess so it makes it wifom.

outing it feels even townier but yeah quite damaging for town because I sense that it probably just outs both of them as town, and now lovers, which is going to give the wolves a free double kill at some point.

We probably need to have a conversation about whether it's right for us to try to block a possible wolf kill on them or whether we just let the wolves self resolve them and lose both numbers.

I think the answer is likely if Mana flips town then we should probably go for the save, and if they flip wolf we can probably let the wolves resolve them?

[TonyStarkPlaysItCool]

wolves should get soup

[TonyStarkPrime]

The funny thing is if Tim/HK were wolves they’d also be best off claiming some town role to the medium

[Poop Explosions]

wolves should get soup

i legit was wondering whether we should just mass claim cuz there's no anticlaim lol

[Akemi Hazelnut]

I don't think it's impossible for loverizer to be a scum role. It's not inherently one alignment, it gives the holder pseudo-KP and a neighborizer shot. It's not even that awkward to use for scum since you can use it to pocket people or just hit some middling player and use it as a vengeful shot.

There's no doubt that loverizing Hyena slot is a misplay - if H&V is town, it's an anti town move. If H&V is scum it's outing. It seems more likely that scum would get overeager to take down a consensus townread player than that town would take the risk of giving mafia free KP. But I'll wait for H&V's explanation.

Also I think wolves would have souped Walrus if they had it, but I also doubt dunia would make her game breakable by massclaim so.

[Akemi Hazelnut]

The funny thing is if Tim/HK were wolves they’d also be best off claiming some town role to the medium

Yeah, this is also a misplay either way. Using the "which misplay is more likely" hypothetical, it's more likely scum would say nothing for fear their claim would be disproven and town gets spew off their flip, than that town just forgot to communicate their role in the heat of the moment or confusion.

[Mana]

I am at the point where I just wanna sleepwalk flip mana

@Mana claim lol

I haven't caught up but we were a one-shot watcher and our watching failed last night (im assuming due to the redirect thing?)

[TonyStarkPlaysItCool]

Flipless sucks