Modern Family Hydra Mafia [GAME END]

[Mana]

you assume... redirection? why do you assume i'm even real?

i'll clarify on this because i think it's one of the more damning parts of the post

we are a slot in PoE

they are also a slot in PoE

if, for some reason, they are a villager, and their first thought is "wow, we must have been redirected by Bottom Text"

where is the spark of "holy shit, their claim is probably real, the PoE might just be wrong"

there isn't one

because they don't think like a villager

okay maybe this is gonna sound bad but we did discuss how this makes you probably town in our hydra chat, and I asked if we should take it to the thread since you were getting heat and made said yes but maybe not right away so we can try and learn something from the people pushing you. I've never played a closed game before or a game with roleclaiming allowed/encouraged so im rly just following his lead here.

my first thought was "oh man our action failed " and then you said we were one of your targets so my second thought was "maybe that's related to why our action failed". has anyone claimed to block us directly yet? that's definitely also an option, but I'm still quite a few pages behind

if anything, your result just means katze is a roleblocker and not a redirector

how does it mean that if actions on someone else were redirected towards us as they claimed?

[Bottom Text]

katze is posting like ted in GoC tbh tbh

im taking this as a compliment despite it being obviously shade

and im pretty sure insomnya would cry at the prospect of being compared to me in any capacity

you assume... redirection? why do you assume i'm even real?

i'll clarify on this because i think it's one of the more damning parts of the post

we are a slot in PoE

they are also a slot in PoE

if, for some reason, they are a villager, and their first thought is "wow, we must have been redirected by Bottom Text"

where is the spark of "holy shit, their claim is probably real, the PoE might just be wrong"

there isn't one

because they don't think like a villager

okay maybe this is gonna sound bad but we did discuss how this makes you probably town in our hydra chat, and I asked if we should take it to the thread since you were getting heat and made said yes but maybe not right away so we can try and learn something from the people pushing you. I've never played a closed game before or a game with roleclaiming allowed/encouraged so im rly just following his lead here.

my first thought was "oh man our action failed " and then you said we were one of your targets so my second thought was "maybe that's related to why our action failed". has anyone claimed to block us directly yet? that's definitely also an option, but I'm still quite a few pages behind

if anything, your result just means katze is a roleblocker and not a redirector

hmmmyes i roleblocked a PoE villager and didnt just claim town roleblocker

[VOTE: timsuptogettingserious] aubergine

i refuse to believe this is a real thought

[trans rights]

@Bottom Text

[trans rights]

anyways im going to be here for the rest of the day but let me catch up on what i missed first

[Bottom Text]

@Bottom Text

awoo

(if you don't awoo back then im gonna cry)

[Poop Explosions]

Think the way katze has been ignoring the situation around them just to put their head down and solve has gone on long enough and convincingly enough for me to not go there for a while.

[Bottom Text]

@Bottom Text

I came here to say

Awooo

(this is my first post of the day phase lmfao)

[Timsup2gettinserious]

hmmmyes i roleblocked a PoE villager and didnt just claim town roleblocker

[VOTE: timsuptogettingserious] aubergine

i refuse to believe this is a real thought

yeah you caught me good job

[Timsup2gettinserious]

Think the way katze has been ignoring the situation around them just to put their head down and solve has gone on long enough and convincingly enough for me to not go there for a while.

please be w/w more quietly

[Bottom Text]

I am wolves with poop explosion

[trans rights]

ftr katze was incredibly wolfy in CoV. Thankfully for us they were mech cleared.

fwiw i think this is extremely untrue even disregarding the mech clear and also believe they were a lot more villagery in cov.

[Bottom Text]

hmmmyes i roleblocked a PoE villager and didnt just claim town roleblocker

[VOTE: timsuptogettingserious] aubergine

i refuse to believe this is a real thought

yeah you caught me good job

no, don't play this game with me

im genuinely flabbergasted

that you think

i, katze, a mechanical mastermind (as per vanity), the best wolf on FoL (citation needed), the cutest player in the game (as per Esooa), the smartest person in their own room (citation needed, the chair might compete), am a wolf roleblocker who roleblocked mana (who, in this world, is a villager, which i have doubts on) instead of literally anyone fucking else (which would imply that my teammates agreed with this roleblock, but also killed the D1 Vig claim, and when pressured to claim, instead of claiming town roleblocker with a n1 on mana (which is a very fucking villagery action), i claim to

1. have misread my abilities in a way that explains my D1 play perfectly
2. be an idiot
3. be a cat
4. be essentially a one-way bus driver

what sense does this make

[Timsup2gettinserious]

katze is posting like ted in GoC tbh tbh

im taking this as a compliment despite it being obviously shade

and im pretty sure insomnya would cry at the prospect of being compared to me in any capacity

oh, no, it's not an insult

ted posted very well and instilled real doubt in everyone but then flipped wolf anyway like we all originally suspected

[TonyStarkPlaysItCool]

/shrug

[Bottom Text]

i'll answer for you

it makes no sense

it's a fake thought

and villagers usually don't do that (and you don't strike me as a katze, who would fake thoughts as a villager)

[Timsup2gettinserious]

hmmmyes i roleblocked a PoE villager and didnt just claim town roleblocker

[VOTE: timsuptogettingserious] aubergine

i refuse to believe this is a real thought

yeah you caught me good job

no, don't play this game with me

im genuinely flabbergasted

that you think

i, katze, a mechanical mastermind (as per vanity), the best wolf on FoL (citation needed), the cutest player in the game (as per Esooa), the smartest person in their own room (citation needed, the chair might compete), am a wolf roleblocker who roleblocked mana (who, in this world, is a villager, which i have doubts on) instead of literally anyone fucking else (which would imply that my teammates agreed with this roleblock, but also killed the D1 Vig claim, and when pressured to claim, instead of claiming town roleblocker with a n1 on mana (which is a very fucking villagery action), i claim to

1. have misread my abilities in a way that explains my D1 play perfectly
2. be an idiot
3. be a cat
4. be essentially a one-way bus driver

what sense does this make

the decisions of everybody else in this game haven't made much sense either and they can't all be wolves

anyway, fine, i rescind. it's not worth arguing about and there are twenty other things to scum-read you for, i have no need to be picky

[Timsup2gettinserious]

i'll answer for you

it makes no sense

it's a fake thought

and villagers usually don't do that (and you don't strike me as a katze, who would fake thoughts as a villager)

lol ok chop me

what the fuck ever dude

your toxic ass posting all game = good

me making one eh post = wow outed, definitely wolf

goodbye

[TonyStarkPlaysItCool]

This seems productive

[trans rights]

regarding mana's claiming, i think a wolf roleblocker blocks them virtually ~never. a wolf roleblocker would always block the walrus since they softed vig.

i'm also claiming to have nothing to do with mana's action getting blocked for the record. i think either some town roleblocker blocked them, or they're probably a wolf.

however, mist and i somewhat agreed that the way they approached the votes yesterday really seemed like they were clueless as to the actual situation. i think that's more likely to come from a village perspective, but that's admittedly pretty thin. i feel like falconknows is slightly more likely to be a wolf than mana though based purely off of behavior and play.

actually if we just know if someone actually did something to mana that could've blocked their action, that would be helpful to solving this.

[Bottom Text]

i'll answer for you

it makes no sense

it's a fake thought

and villagers usually don't do that (and you don't strike me as a katze, who would fake thoughts as a villager)

lol ok chop me

what the fuck ever dude

your toxic ass posting all game = good

me making one eh post = wow outed, definitely wolf

goodbye

blink blink

sigh

okay i admittedly overreacted, but i still don't understand where that comes from

whatever it's probably less absurd to the outside eye than me calling H&V a scum joat because of their "we had to act n1 or be a VT" claim given im pretty sure most people still think im just a wolf anyway

lets take a step back

sorry

[trans rights]

What mafia claims watcher.

a mafia watcher

Yeah, but my point is it’s traditionally a pro-town role and I think if they were a mafia watcher they wouldn’t claim their ability failed. I think they would make up something that seems relatively safe. I also have other reasons to believe it as well which I don’t want to divulge atm

Why can't they just be a completely different mafia role that is just making the Watcher thing up

If the goal was to make up the watcher claim, I doubt they would say their ability failed.

i've literally seen a wolf claim to be blocked as a watcher claim before, btw. admittedly the situation is different because in that scenario, they claimed watcher the day before. regardless i see no reason why that's out of the question.

[Bottom Text]

What mafia claims watcher.

a mafia watcher

Yeah, but my point is it’s traditionally a pro-town role and I think if they were a mafia watcher they wouldn’t claim their ability failed. I think they would make up something that seems relatively safe. I also have other reasons to believe it as well which I don’t want to divulge atm

Why can't they just be a completely different mafia role that is just making the Watcher thing up

If the goal was to make up the watcher claim, I doubt they would say their ability failed.

i've literally seen a wolf claim to be blocked as a watcher claim before, btw. admittedly the situation is different because in that scenario, they claimed watcher the day before. regardless i see no reason why that's out of the question.

i feel like the situations are so different than bringing this up is ~effectively useless and only serves to further shade Mana in a non-committal way

[Mana]

regarding mana's claiming, i think a wolf roleblocker blocks them virtually ~never. a wolf roleblocker would always block the walrus since they softed vig.

i'm also claiming to have nothing to do with mana's action getting blocked for the record. i think either some town roleblocker blocked them, or they're probably a wolf.

however, mist and i somewhat agreed that the way they approached the votes yesterday really seemed like they were clueless as to the actual situation. i think that's more likely to come from a village perspective, but that's admittedly pretty thin. i feel like falconknows is slightly more likely to be a wolf than mana though based purely off of behavior and play.

actually if we just know if someone actually did something to mana that could've blocked their action, that would be helpful to solving this.

so we figured out that made took a quick look at the poll and thought the 3 votes on poop were actually on us and panic voted BT for self pres. I would also like to know if someone did something to us or if someone did something to the mystery player that BT redirected actions from that would have affected us

[trans rights]

And i think a scum loverizer would attach themselves to a strong town player that they might not immediately nk. So if they get yeeted they take someone else down with them

and this doesn't make sense either. loverizing a strongly townread player is outing. also, wolves would want that to happen, but not if it just ends in a trade i don't think. the action slightly worries me from the perspective that it could've been them targeting a "poe but not really poe" slot. sure, a lot of people townread timsuptogettinserious, but it's not inconceivable if they're killing walrus and expecting them to flip vig.

i have no idea why people are thinking the loverizer is inherently a villager role. ime the role is infinitely more likely to be a wolf.

[trans rights]

the pushes onto walrus yesterday were extremely wolfy btw. it's a perfect scapegoat for a wolf. two and through/tspic very likely contains a wolf as a result to me, but it seems decently likely that we did actually just hit on two and through

[TonyStarkPlaysItCool]

Why would a wolf!lover target a "poe but not really poe" slot? Like what's the benefit for them there?

@Timsup2gettinserious did you know you were lovered or did urist/mantis tell you that you were?

[TonyStarkPlaysItCool]

the pushes onto walrus yesterday were extremely wolfy btw. it's a perfect scapegoat for a wolf. two and through/tspic very likely contains a wolf as a result to me, but it seems decently likely that we did actually just hit on two and through

lol what

You cannot tell me objectively that their vote on me was not shocking btw

[trans rights]

What mafia claims watcher.

a mafia watcher

Yeah, but my point is it’s traditionally a pro-town role and I think if they were a mafia watcher they wouldn’t claim their ability failed. I think they would make up something that seems relatively safe. I also have other reasons to believe it as well which I don’t want to divulge atm

Why can't they just be a completely different mafia role that is just making the Watcher thing up

If the goal was to make up the watcher claim, I doubt they would say their ability failed.

i've literally seen a wolf claim to be blocked as a watcher claim before, btw. admittedly the situation is different because in that scenario, they claimed watcher the day before. regardless i see no reason why that's out of the question.

i feel like the situations are so different than bringing this up is ~effectively useless and only serves to further shade Mana in a non-committal way

there's a pretty significant difference between hedging on a read and hedging on mechanics iyam. especially since i'm way more of a reads oriented player than a mech oriented player.

[Bottom Text]

i have no idea why people are thinking the loverizer is inherently a villager role. ime the role is infinitely more likely to be a wolf.

hmm

another question to hyena/syn

were you told that you were loverized specifically by H&V or did they tell you

[Bottom Text]

[VOTE: unvote] aubergine

that vote on syn was purely emotional. sorry again.

even if i think that was a really bad string of posts i still think they're probably villaging for their earlier dayplay

weh. i feel like a bad person am i turning into chloe

[Timsup2gettinserious]

Why would a wolf!lover target a "poe but not really poe" slot? Like what's the benefit for them there?

@Timsup2gettinserious did you know you were lovered or did urist/mantis tell you that you were?

i have no idea why people are thinking the loverizer is inherently a villager role. ime the role is infinitely more likely to be a wolf.

hmm

another question to hyena/syn

were you told that you were loverized specifically by H&V or did they tell you

dunia told us we were loverized

but urist confirmed their hydra was the one who did it. i asked him and he said yes.

so we weren't loverized by someone outside the two slots. urist and mantis picked us specifically

[trans rights]

Between H&V and Bottom Text who is more wolfy?

okay this post is a massive reg flag to me. this is forcing a dichotomy in a really hedge-y and vicarious manner. i know it's between the two "shady claims", but regardless i hate the post in almost every way

[VOTE: falconknows] aubergine

[trans rights]

actually

[VOTE: unvote] aubergine because i don't want to put them at l-2

[Bottom Text]

however, mist and i somewhat agreed that the way they approached the votes yesterday really seemed like they were clueless as to the actual situation. i think that's more likely to come from a village perspective, but that's admittedly pretty thin. i feel like falconknows is slightly more likely to be a wolf than mana though based purely off of behavior and play.

this read is kinda ridiculous imo

[Bottom Text]

so we weren't loverized by someone outside the two slots. urist and mantis picked us specifically

hmm

@Honey & Vinegar were you forced to include yourself in this loverization

[TonyStarkPlaysItCool]

Why would a wolf!lover target a "poe but not really poe" slot? Like what's the benefit for them there?

@Timsup2gettinserious did you know you were lovered or did urist/mantis tell you that you were?

i have no idea why people are thinking the loverizer is inherently a villager role. ime the role is infinitely more likely to be a wolf.

hmm

another question to hyena/syn

were you told that you were loverized specifically by H&V or did they tell you

dunia told us we were loverized

but urist confirmed their hydra was the one who did it. i asked him and he said yes.

so we weren't loverized by someone outside the two slots. urist and mantis picked us specifically

Did you get put into a chat together? What do you mean by Urist confirmed? Why would they need to confirm it was them if you were forcibly added into a chat

[trans rights]

however, mist and i somewhat agreed that the way they approached the votes yesterday really seemed like they were clueless as to the actual situation. i think that's more likely to come from a village perspective, but that's admittedly pretty thin. i feel like falconknows is slightly more likely to be a wolf than mana though based purely off of behavior and play.

this read is kinda ridiculous imo

how. it is a dumb mistake to make regardless of alignment but it legitimately seemed like they had no idea what was going on.

[Bottom Text]

however, mist and i somewhat agreed that the way they approached the votes yesterday really seemed like they were clueless as to the actual situation. i think that's more likely to come from a village perspective, but that's admittedly pretty thin. i feel like falconknows is slightly more likely to be a wolf than mana though based purely off of behavior and play.

this read is kinda ridiculous imo

how. it is a dumb mistake to make regardless of alignment but it legitimately seemed like they had no idea what was going on.

Made was out of thread. I think that's NAI. I don't know how a wolf, out of thread, would magically be more aware of the gamestate than a villager? Was someone in wolf chat presumably telling him, "you're not being voted" ?

Not really. He, as a wolf, would have had just as much knowledge of what's going on as compared to him being a town.

I've read very little of this game so I don't have a strong opinion on Mana's behavior/play as a whole, but I disagree with this read, and would say the self-pres vote is more wolfy than not because

1. They did it without saying anything in thread until called out by me

2. Simply throwing a self pres vote for ~no reason like that is a wolf mentality imo

[trans rights]

however, mist and i somewhat agreed that the way they approached the votes yesterday really seemed like they were clueless as to the actual situation. i think that's more likely to come from a village perspective, but that's admittedly pretty thin. i feel like falconknows is slightly more likely to be a wolf than mana though based purely off of behavior and play.

this read is kinda ridiculous imo

how. it is a dumb mistake to make regardless of alignment but it legitimately seemed like they had no idea what was going on.

Made was out of thread. I think that's NAI. I don't know how a wolf, out of thread, would magically be more aware of the gamestate than a villager? Was someone in wolf chat presumably telling him, "you're not being voted" ?

Not really. He, as a wolf, would have had just as much knowledge of what's going on as compared to him being a town.

I've read very little of this game so I don't have a strong opinion on Mana's behavior/play as a whole, but I disagree with this read, and would say the self-pres vote is more wolfy than not because

1. They did it without saying anything in thread until called out by me

2. Simply throwing a self pres vote for ~no reason like that is a wolf mentality imo

their "self-pres vote" literally caused them to accrue votes though. it might just be a twtbaw situation iyam. fwiw mist mostly has this read, not me. mana could still be a wolf afaik.

[TonyStarkPlaysItCool]

regarding mana's claiming, i think a wolf roleblocker blocks them virtually ~never. a wolf roleblocker would always block the walrus since they softed vig.

i'm also claiming to have nothing to do with mana's action getting blocked for the record. i think either some town roleblocker blocked them, or they're probably a wolf.

however, mist and i somewhat agreed that the way they approached the votes yesterday really seemed like they were clueless as to the actual situation. i think that's more likely to come from a village perspective, but that's admittedly pretty thin. i feel like falconknows is slightly more likely to be a wolf than mana though based purely off of behavior and play.

actually if we just know if someone actually did something to mana that could've blocked their action, that would be helpful to solving this.

so we figured out that made took a quick look at the poll and thought the 3 votes on poop were actually on us and panic voted BT for self pres. I would also like to know if someone did something to us or if someone did something to the mystery player that BT redirected actions from that would have affected us

Just checked the previous vote count and yeah mana and poop both have their names together so this is possibly a reasonable explanation. maybe

[Akemi Hazelnut]

Is it mech optimal to just ask everyone to claim whether or not they blocked Mana?

If nobody admits to it, then Mana is proven a liar since a wolf roleblocker would have targeted Walrus.

If Mana is a wolf and making up being blocked, they basically have to ask a teammate to claim to block them, which commits them to a claim early and potentially outs both if someone else can disprove the claim.

[trans rights]

Is it mech optimal to just ask everyone to claim whether or not they blocked Mana?

If nobody admits to it, then Mana is proven a liar since a wolf roleblocker would have targeted Walrus.

If Mana is a wolf and making up being blocked, they basically have to ask a teammate to claim to block them, which commits them to a claim early and potentially outs both if someone else can disprove the claim.

the only flaw is if a wolf roleblocked mana

but if the wolves have a roleblocker i dont think they ever roleblock v!mana anyways so i'm okay with this

[Alison]

their "self-pres vote" literally caused them to accrue votes though. it might just be a twtbaw situation iyam. fwiw mist mostly has this read, not me. mana could still be a wolf afaik.

This is a silly read, obviously they didn't intend for their self-pres to make them wagoned. Also TWTBAW isn't real and people should stop parroting it.

[Akemi Hazelnut]

their "self-pres vote" literally caused them to accrue votes though. it might just be a twtbaw situation iyam. fwiw mist mostly has this read, not me. mana could still be a wolf afaik.

This is a silly read, obviously they didn't intend for their self-pres to make them wagoned. Also TWTBAW isn't real and people should stop parroting it.

omg I switched browser tabs by mistake again

[Timsup2gettinserious]

Why would a wolf!lover target a "poe but not really poe" slot? Like what's the benefit for them there?

@Timsup2gettinserious did you know you were lovered or did urist/mantis tell you that you were?

i have no idea why people are thinking the loverizer is inherently a villager role. ime the role is infinitely more likely to be a wolf.

hmm

another question to hyena/syn

were you told that you were loverized specifically by H&V or did they tell you

dunia told us we were loverized

but urist confirmed their hydra was the one who did it. i asked him and he said yes.

so we weren't loverized by someone outside the two slots. urist and mantis picked us specifically

Did you get put into a chat together? What do you mean by Urist confirmed? Why would they need to confirm it was them if you were forcibly added into a chat

yes, we have a lovers chat

i mean exactly what i said

i've never played with a loverizer and do not know if they are required to be included, and i wanted to see what he would say after being asked too

[Akemi Hazelnut]

Is it mech optimal to just ask everyone to claim whether or not they blocked Mana?

If nobody admits to it, then Mana is proven a liar since a wolf roleblocker would have targeted Walrus.

If Mana is a wolf and making up being blocked, they basically have to ask a teammate to claim to block them, which commits them to a claim early and potentially outs both if someone else can disprove the claim.

the only flaw is if a wolf roleblocked mana

but if the wolves have a roleblocker i dont think they ever roleblock v!mana anyways so i'm okay with this

I don't think a wolf roleblocker would ever roleblock town Mana. Like Walrus is right there.

[trans rights]

i'm not going to talk about this more but i do agree that it is more likely to be a nai mistake.

[Akemi Hazelnut]

Anyway in case it isn't clear I did not block Mana.

[Bottom Text]

okay so heres the thing

a wolf roleblocker could have roleblocked mana but not roleblocked mana, given our ability usage

[Bottom Text]

but obviously we didnt use it on walrus otherwise mana would have gotten deaded