Game Over! Monty Python and the Holy Grail

[Mongoose]

Aww Matty, don't be scared of the volume. Come back, Matty! You can distill all these posts down fairly easy with some strategic scanning.

i have looked at a little and honestly I think the accusers seem more suspicious than the accused, but we have even less to go on than normal for day 1, so i don't know really.

I feel like we have even more to go on than usual, but maybe thats just because I've been sat here all day hitting refresh so I can't see the forest for the trees.

[Tangrowth]

Yes, I was about to also clarify this for MP. I will add that I think it's weird that Made added the "No, I went off memory" comment into juliets text and then added the "well, fuck me" as a separate post outside of juliets post. That seems like he's trying to deceive someone.

But this is someone who multiple times said "if he were" and even more declarative statements that he was on a baddie team and was just revealed to be a civvie. And it's just his second game.

I just think if he had was a baddie, he would have learned so much from all the craziness he committed in Misfits and would be playing differently. He's a paranoid as F civvie. Totally reminds me of MR F in a way.

It just all seems too easy.

So, essentially you are giving him a free pass this game to be suspicious? That's exactly what this post sounds like.

No, how did you get that out of my post? I just see a lynch train forming against him right now and I'm not sure I think all of his behavior makes him bad. Am I not allowed to have that opinion?

Please explain to me how irrational behavior equals baddie behavior.

And to be fair, as I've stated multiple times, my opinion on Made is undetermined. I just think he's being made out (lol) to be an easy vote, and I'm not convinced he's bad.

I'm just trying to take into consideration Made's playstyle because he is still almost completely new to the game and new to almost all of us.

[A Person]

Aww Matty, don't be scared of the volume. Come back, Matty! You can distill all these posts down fairly easy with some strategic scanning.

i have looked at a little and honestly I think the accusers seem more suspicious than the accused, but we have even less to go on than normal for day 1, so i don't know really.

Why?

That's a pretty sweeping general statement.

Because accusing the accused is a good way not to be accused. Not that baddies are the only ones who want to escape accusation, it is just a tactic i've seen some people use, it's probably nothing to do with alignment and more to do with playstyle.

[Tangrowth]

Aww Matty, don't be scared of the volume. Come back, Matty! You can distill all these posts down fairly easy with some strategic scanning.

i have looked at a little and honestly I think the accusers seem more suspicious than the accused, but we have even less to go on than normal for day 1, so i don't know really.

Why?

That's a pretty sweeping general statement.

Because accusing the accused is a good way not to be accused. Not that baddies are the only ones who want to escape accusation, it is just a tactic i've seen some people use, it's probably nothing to do with alignment and more to do with playstyle.

Are you kidding? The more I accuse, the more attention I always get.

[thellama73]

Please explain to me how irrational behavior equals baddie behavior.

It doesn't, but I am not suspecting him based on irrational behavior. I am suspecting him based on behavior that would be perfectly rational for a baddie.

Now I really am going.

[reywaS]

Irrational behavior doesn't equal baddie behavior necessarily...but it is possible.

1. baddie makes a slip.
2. baddie get nervous.
3. baddie behaves irrationally because baddie doesn't know how to rationally cover up the slip.

[Tangrowth]

Please explain to me how irrational behavior equals baddie behavior.

It doesn't, but I am not suspecting him based on irrational behavior. I am suspecting him based on behavior that would be perfectly rational for a baddie.

Now I really am going.

Sure, and you're entitled to think that. I just don't know if his behavior would be all that rational for a baddie, personally.

[Tangrowth]

Irrational behavior doesn't equal baddie behavior necessarily...but it is possible.

1. baddie makes a slip.
2. baddie get nervous.
3. baddie behaves irrationally because baddie doesn't know how to rationally cover up the slip.

Sure, that's possible, and it's happened before. I presume you think Made did indeed make a slip then?

I'm going to sleep on it.

[Enrique]

1. He made an assumption about the other team in chat and immediately tried to cover it up, making me think he has BTSC. And no, he didn't specifically reference the script, that came after, so this has not been "proven wrong."

If it wasn't about the script, then what was it? What was the assumption that he made? Isn't that kind of a very important factor here?

2. He lied about Roxy clearing the chat 8 seconds before, which he somehow "remembered" despite not being there.

Umm that's weird but what about it is more baddie than civvie, exactly?

3. He suggested the no lynch option on Day 0, which in my mind obviously favors baddies.

Yeah dude he's also new. Not getting a civvie on day 1 does sound kinda ideal, doesn't it? If he didn't think it through that doesn't mean that he's bad.

[A Person]

Aww Matty, don't be scared of the volume. Come back, Matty! You can distill all these posts down fairly easy with some strategic scanning.

i have looked at a little and honestly I think the accusers seem more suspicious than the accused, but we have even less to go on than normal for day 1, so i don't know really.

Why?

That's a pretty sweeping general statement.

Because accusing the accused is a good way not to be accused. Not that baddies are the only ones who want to escape accusation, it is just a tactic i've seen some people use, it's probably nothing to do with alignment and more to do with playstyle.

Are you kidding? The more I accuse, the more attention I always get.

maybe I am proving myself wrong as i post then
or maybe we're going around in a circle and now i'm accusing myself of being bad, i dunno

[A Person]

oops

[reywaS]

Irrational behavior doesn't equal baddie behavior necessarily...but it is possible.

1. baddie makes a slip.
2. baddie get nervous.
3. baddie behaves irrationally because baddie doesn't know how to rationally cover up the slip.

Sure, that's possible, and it's happened before. I presume you think Made did indeed make a slip then?

I'm going to sleep on it.

Don't presume. I said it's possible.

[reywaS]

I will wait for Made to post his rebuttal to all of this before I get into presuming.

[Black Rock]

Alright I have just scanned the last 4 pages. I just got home from drinking with my sister so I have to admit it was a scan.

Has the actual slip been laid out by the accusers? I might have missed it. Is it not what Made said? It has actual bearing on my opinion here.

Also I want to make a clarification here since Llama and Epig both took my meaning the wrong way. There is trying hard to catch a baddie and trying to hard because you are a possible baddie. I agree civvies should try hard to catch baddies. That's not what I said Llama was doing and I won't be dismissed that way.

[Mister Rearranger]

I'm quite disappointed, I checked in but still had to miss the challenge time.

I hope whoever won has some good intentions and got a useful reward!

A'ight, 15 pages: bring it!

[Mister Rearranger]

EBWOP: Just started catching up and maybe I'm not so upset that I missed the challenge. Doing it on a Nook would have been brutal...

[Marmot]

Your domain is mathematics. Mine is language.

What's my domain?

Communism.

Every communist regime needs a benevolent dictator.

[Marmot]

1. He made an assumption about the other team in chat and immediately tried to cover it up, making me think he has BTSC. And no, he didn't specifically reference the script, that came after, so this has not been "proven wrong."

So now there is mention of a script being the reason? Why are clues still being gradually leaked out?

Tbh, I'm probably going to vote Made anyway because I don't have a damn clue what ACTUALLY happened and there's a whole lot of 'he said' 'she said'. But through all of this, his reactions have been the flimsiest. Someone stated at some point that Made is an unorthodox player (civvie they said I think), so I will continue to keep that in mind. llama, I'm going to have to do a reread of you, because it also seems to me like you are twisting words around today. I don't recall Enrique actually calling you bad, but you've stated that he did.

Still reading though, but I'll be all caught up shortly.

[Marmot]

Also I want to make a clarification here since Llama and Epig both took my meaning the wrong way. There is trying hard to catch a baddie and trying to hard because you are a possible baddie. I agree civvies should try hard to catch baddies. That's not what I said Llama was doing and I won't be dismissed that way.

You should always clarify that around those two. Another mistake like that could prove fatal.

[Long Con]

I feel like MP is probably staying UTR because he's died early in a lot of games recently (well like always on TS, unfortunately) and playing safe can be a smart move if you tend to draw a lot of fire early. Not that I would at all understand this plight at all. Ahem.

Exsqueeze me? Baking powder? (That's surely a Monty Python reference)

How is 33 posts by Day 1 staying under the radar?

MP died early in a game (The Hobbit) because I lead a Day 1 lynch against him and he was bad. Other than that, he WON Are You Being Served? Mafia and he WON Occultism Mafia. He has not died early in anything this year other than The Hobbit, when he was an evil smelly necrophiliac goblin.

Wow, this thread is... chatty! I haven't finished catching up yet, and I have quoted where I'm stopping because of blurry tired eyes. I am currently suspicious of my friend S~V~S. I'll discuss tomorrow after my continued catchup.

[Mister Rearranger]

Count me in on the "interested in what Made and Rey have to say" group.

[S~V~S]

4 hours.

And no, not yet. He did the opportunistic thing i was expecting someone to do, and started trying to discuss lynching people who did not show up for the challenge. He lied about returning to the chatroom.

I don;t see that anyone else has done anything quite so attention getting. Plus, like i said, that "no lynch" thing pinged the living daylights out of me Day Zero. LIVING DAYLIGHTS.

Fair enough, duly noted. I agree with you on the "no lynch" thing, but him saying that didn't ping me really.

I still think you're suspicious, but I'm willing to shut up about it for a bit.

Why? Because i suspect someone you do not and i am tenaciously pursuing it? Again, you know me, right? Unless you are saying I am suspicious in the SVS way that i always am suspicious. If that is the case say so, and stop trying to say you have a real basis for it. that i can understand, i get that all the time.

Seriously? This is just making me more suspicious of you. That is not AT ALL why I suspect you. I already said: you tenaciously pursuing people is totally in character for you. And it has absolutely nothing to do with you suspecting someone I do not (Besides, I already admitted the points made against Made, lol, are valid, I'm just not sure whether that makes him a crazy civvie or actually bad yet).

I think you're suspicious because I believe you're fabricating a suspicion of Made that you don't really believe is true. Not only that, but you refuse to talk about absolutely anyone else. And your suspicion of Made popped up around a time I found it to be opportunistic. And in fact, yes, you may be tenaciously pursuing it, but as I said before, as a civvie you at least are aggressive all around and I personally believe you'd be pursuing it differently. I think you're trying too hard to seem like your civvie self.

LINKI

The bolded part makes no sense at all. Of course I believe it. He got my eye on Day Zero for the No Lynch thing to start, but then for saying he was tempted to do the maths re odds. How? With one number? He would have to have some additional knowledge of the composition of the roles to do that, and indeed, at some later point he speculated about how many baddies were split between teams.

While we must acknowledge the possiblity of mafia teams, I agree. Mafia being on two seperate teams/evenly split between teams (which is probably more likely anyways) is more likely anyways.

He then makes this "joke post":

we COULD just kill someone who didn't show up to the challenge ...real talk tho wink winks, how many of you guys were there and how many of you saw the movie?



Also, I'd say chat's pretty irrlevant because everyone (probably) wanted to win.....assuming there aren't any team of 3+. and even if there was, avoiding the chatroom all together makes more sense than sabotage.


3 fucking brag linkis really?

Then a bit later this real one:

Made, do you find anyone suspicious right now?

The only thing that rubbed me the wrong way was BWT's lack of participation during the game. he was there for 2 mintues before the game, but didn't post questions in chat or answer in the thread. He said he had dinner in 2 mintues, around question 7 or 8 so it may be excusable, but still. Most i got.

Why would not fully participating in the challenge make BWT suspicious? It would be an awesome reason to make a spacegoat out of him though. Which is precisely what this looks like to me. And civvies don't need spacegoats.

For the most part, these things are the main reasons I suspect him. Talking about the numbers as if he knew what some of them were, and suspecting people for a specious reason.

The other stuff, for the most part i did not see. I was in the chat about 40 mins or so before the challenge started trying to wheedle/guilt the hosts into changing the time, then I was in the thread watching from the bus, since I could not participate. So i did not see any slip, or subsequent scripts in the chatroom before it was cleared, and my thoughts on him have nothing to do with those things. When i first got home, I went right to the chat, but Rox had just cleared it. When he posted like 40 mins later that she had just cleared it, I went and looked, and he had not been in there since it was cleared. He did subsequently go in there after I posted that he had not been in there.

Enrique asked why this made him bad, and I don't know that it does. It does mean he made something up. Which to my mind adds to the totality of the picture.

I am requoting you here, MP, the last paragraph as there is so much between where I originally quoted you and here:

I think you're suspicious because I believe you're fabricating a suspicion of Made that you don't really believe is true. Not only that, but you refuse to talk about absolutely anyone else. And your suspicion of Made popped up around a time I found it to be opportunistic. And in fact, yes, you may be tenaciously pursuing it, but as I said before, as a civvie you at least are aggressive all around and I personally believe you'd be pursuing it differently. I think you're trying too hard to seem like your civvie self.

I really firmly believe this, and I have no idea why you think i an fabricating this, and that I don't think it's true, lol. I am playing VERY hard, yes. I have not had so much fun in a thread in ages. I don't believe i would be pursuing it differently, I have been accused of tunnelvision more than even Reywas.

What exactly was "opportunistic" about my timing? I first questioned Made on Day Zero, than specifically noted specific things he said on Day One. And don't tell me it was becasue i am taking advantage of an easy victim~ you were in the baddie chat in Fight Club~ you know i wanted to kill the rest of the cops, not recruit them, specifically becasue i did not want to alienate INH or hurt his feelings, since my knowledge of his feeling led me to believe he might be hurt by that. I am not someone to take advantage of a nub for the lulz, or because he is an easy victim. And you know that about me maybe more than anyone else.

And I think NO ONE has talked about any suspicions other than that of Made, not just me. Oh except those saying I am suspicious, lol. I will weigh in on that; I am definitely not bad.

Also, LC, I look forward to that.

[Bullzeye]

Oh god, looks like this is going to be another game where tons of stuff happens while I'm asleep! Catching up now...

[S~V~S]

And also, MP, I can't get past the 4 hour thing. You are acting like we are a week into this and all I have done in a week is talk about Made.

You said this literally 4 hours after the day one poll went up, lol. I will keep this in mind every time you excuse a vote by saying it was only a day one vote or suspicion or anything to that effect.

TBH, the way Enrique is acting is giving me pause. I have not voted yet.

[Bullzeye]

Well that was a riveting read. As far as Made goes, on the one hand I agree with this summary here:

But this is someone who multiple times said "if he were" and even more declarative statements that he was on a baddie team and was just revealed to be a civvie. And it's just his second game.

I just think if he had was a baddie, he would have learned so much from all the craziness he committed in Misfits and would be playing differently. He's a paranoid as F civvie. Totally reminds me of MR F in a way.

It just all seems too easy.

When Made flipped civ in Misfits my mind wasn't just blown, it launched itself out of the back of my head and splattered across my bedroom wall. I was more sure of him being bad than I was of the sky being blue. I think the comparison to MR F is a good one (I wouldn't be surprised if he started ranting in French about Dex est MOM or claiming that people are possessed and trying to exorcise them) and could see how some of his comments might just be another case of putting his foot in his mouth like in Misfits. On the other hand there is the whole thing about the chat where he said he couldn't retrieve a piece of info because it had been cleared '8 seconds ago' but later said he'd gone off memory. That doesn't make sense and nor does it work alongside the 'Made is just zany' theory in my opinion.

[thellama73]

1. He made an assumption about the other team in chat and immediately tried to cover it up, making me think he has BTSC. And no, he didn't specifically reference the script, that came after, so this has not been "proven wrong."

So now there is mention of a script being the reason? Why are clues still being gradually leaked out?

Made is now claiming that his comment was in reference to the script we used, and since the other team also had the script, he claims that exonerates him. I am not gradually leaking clues, I'm trying to guard against revisionism. In the chat, at the time, he did not specifically reference the script, and I have no idea whether he was referring to that or something else.

[Bullzeye]

1. He made an assumption about the other team in chat and immediately tried to cover it up, making me think he has BTSC. And no, he didn't specifically reference the script, that came after, so this has not been "proven wrong."

So now there is mention of a script being the reason? Why are clues still being gradually leaked out?

Made is now claiming that his comment was in reference to the script we used, and since the other team also had the script, he claims that exonerates him. I am not gradually leaking clues, I'm trying to guard against revisionism. In the chat, at the time, he did not specifically reference the script, and I have no idea whether he was referring to that or something else.

Did he specifically reference anything in the comments that made you think he might have btsc with someone in the other chat?

[thellama73]

1. He made an assumption about the other team in chat and immediately tried to cover it up, making me think he has BTSC. And no, he didn't specifically reference the script, that came after, so this has not been "proven wrong."

So now there is mention of a script being the reason? Why are clues still being gradually leaked out?

Made is now claiming that his comment was in reference to the script we used, and since the other team also had the script, he claims that exonerates him. I am not gradually leaking clues, I'm trying to guard against revisionism. In the chat, at the time, he did not specifically reference the script, and I have no idea whether he was referring to that or something else.

Did he specifically reference anything in the comments that made you think he might have btsc with someone in the other chat?

I think he might have had btsc with someone in the other chat for two reasons, first he said "I don't think the other team will be doing this" or something along those lines, which I found an odd assumption. I don't know what "this" was in reference to.
Second, he immediately tried to cover it up by posting several times in a row statements like "oh, but I have no idea, really." "Who knows what they're up to" and stuff like that. If it were just the first statement, or just the second, I might not have thought much about it, but it looked to me like an attempt to cover a slip.

[Made]

Good morning all!

So last night, I didn't understand the rule. I basically got the "your overanaylsing, go nuts" from roxy, so I will.

First thing's first. My original 3 point thingy is full of errors I want to correct, so let's do that now.

1. Pretty much still correct, but I would like to suggest this. If llama found my "I doubt the other team has this" commentweird, why wouldn't he mention it during chat. My current theory is he did mention, and is now denying it (either intentionally or otherwise).(if it helps to jog either Juliets or llama's memory, pretty sure who ever joked asking how would Ik that ended their comment in a ":p"

2.I meant to say that I thought that even implying the possibility that anyone had btsc, especially with specific other people (specically the joke/theory that I do with Juliet) was not allowed. I even thought clarifying this would be against the rule as the warning dispor posted was right after I posted my 3 point rebuttal.

3.since I don't even know how you guys were interpreting this point, what I was implying (again I thought specifically stating this might of been against the rules, which is why this was vague) mafia are not the only people who could potentially have BTSC.

One last thing before I make sure I didn't miss anything. I honestly don't think it's likely that bwt was bad. As I said earlier, the only reason I mentioned his actions was because MP asked for my thoughts, and that was literally the only person I had any on at that point.

Also something about 4 hours SVS?

And metalmarsh, please read this before finallizing your decision.
Oh.... Llama made more points..lol...
responses in this color because it's pretty

1. He made an assumption about the other team in chat and immediately tried to cover it up, making me think he has BTSC. And no, he didn't specifically reference the script, that came after, so this has not been "proven wrong." in retrospect, I think I remember what you are talking about. While early on, I did mention the script being a possible advantage(and ended up denying this due to someone's comment), I remember mentioning that our organization as a team might of been an advantage. I don't remember denying this, but I do remember talking rapidly after mentioning this. I'm a business major and I do swot(strengths, weakness, opportunity threats) analysises almost passively. This is all I was doing in reference to the last point. I was trying to determine where we might stand in comparison to the other team ( I also attempted to speculate how many people where active/online on the other team)

2. He lied about Roxy clearing the chat 8 seconds before, which he somehow "remembered" despite not being there. the way the chat works is if you leave and rejoin, you see all messages you missed. That said, I had chat open and almost got kicked for being afk. When you brought up this point, the last messages were something along the lines of "Roxy cleared chat 8 seconds ago" "Dispor left 10 seconds ago" and "Dana joined 6 seconds ago". Basically this was a joke, as obviously if the messages appeared in that order the time stamps were incorrect.

3. He suggested the no lynch option on Day 0, which in my mind obviously favors baddies.
I was totally considering preparing a pastebin saying you would be the first to bring this back up

All from my cellphone

[Made]

Also, linki...kinda? Llama at first, I thought you were talking about the script so I replied about the script. Regardless, hopefully, I gave all of the clues. It's bad to keep other civvies in the dark, ain't it?

[Made]

Edit: I hadn't remember mentioning or possible organizational advantage until I read llama's points against me. Regardless, my point still stands Assuming he's referring to my implied comment on a organizational advantage

[Made]

*our

[Mongoose]

You might find a lurking mongoose around this morning if you need her.

[juliets]

Fair enough, S~V~S. I'll sit on it. I'm just making observations as to what I think as I read the thread. SOMEONE has to be bad. :P

Roxy cleared the room 8 seconds ago, so i can't check exactly who asked if i knew something...

Made, did you really go to the chat room to find this out?
No i went off memory I don't understand why SVS didn't see that you had been there.

For anyone wondering, once llama brought that comment up by made I remembered it. And I don't remember anyone saying "you should know". I certainly would never say something like that and those of you who know me well know that. With that said, I do not have a perfect memory and worry about reporting what I remember. I agree I'm concerned with this but it's more that there is something to add to it, whether he was in the chat room at the end.

I have not read through the entire post-game thread but felt like I needed to ask that question (sorry if it's already been answered made) and also give you my take on the comments made.

Well fuck me.....

You went "off memory" that Roxy had cleared the chat 8 seconds earlier?

I found JC's post weird here too, and I didn't want to say anything just yet, but she's one of the few in the category I mentioned earlier (that I was hoping would post more because she's pinged me just a bit), but she doesn't have enough content thus far, and I wasn't sure if I was just being silly. I'm honestly not sure what to think of her yet, but this post made me crick my brow a bit.

What did you find weird about my post? What made you crick your brow?

[juliets]

First thing's first. My original 3 point thingy is full of errors I want to correct, so let's do that now.

2.I meant to say that I thought that even implying the possibility that anyone had btsc, especially with specific other people (specically the joke/theory that I do with Juliet) was not allowed. I even thought clarifying this would be against the rule as the warning dispor posted was right after I posted my 3 point rebuttal.

Made help me out here. What do you mean the joke/theory that I do with Juliet? (I underlined it above). And I wish I could say I remember a comment with the tongue emoticon but I don't.

Maybe we should talk about other suspects people have. I'm at a loss as I usually am in a game, and there are people I haven't heard enough from to have an opinion.

[reywaS]

Count me in on the "interested in what Made and Rey have to say" group.

As far as I know, you are the founding member of this particular group. What is it that you are interested in hearing from me?

[Bullzeye]

Good morning all!

So last night, I didn't understand the rule. I basically got the "your overanaylsing, go nuts" from roxy, so I will.

First thing's first. My original 3 point thingy is full of errors I want to correct, so let's do that now.

1. Pretty much still correct, but I would like to suggest this. If llama found my "I doubt the other team has this" commentweird, why wouldn't he mention it during chat. My current theory is he did mention, and is now denying it (either intentionally or otherwise).(if it helps to jog either Juliets or llama's memory, pretty sure who ever joked asking how would Ik that ended their comment in a ":p"

To be fair, if he'd brought it up in the chat it would've turned your discussion from 'how can we possibly stand together against such an unstoppable force as team wink' into whether or not you're bad, distracting the team from its goal and making your loss even worse. So I can see why he'd keep that card close to his chest until after the challenge was over.

2.I meant to say that I thought that even implying the possibility that anyone had btsc, especially with specific other people (specically the joke/theory that I do with Juliet) was not allowed. I even thought clarifying this would be against the rule as the warning dispor posted was right after I posted my 3 point rebuttal.

This would make it impossible to accuse people of being bad, since the very nature of the accusation implies you think someone has btsc usuallly. Since you're relatively new though I can see why you'd be mistaken.

3.since I don't even know how you guys were interpreting this point, what I was implying (again I thought specifically stating this might of been against the rules, which is why this was vague) mafia are not the only people who could potentially have BTSC.

I got that. But since we don't know the majority of the roles and speculation is forbidden then I don't see how we can assume anyone else might have btsc.

[Tangrowth]

4 hours.

And no, not yet. He did the opportunistic thing i was expecting someone to do, and started trying to discuss lynching people who did not show up for the challenge. He lied about returning to the chatroom.

I don;t see that anyone else has done anything quite so attention getting. Plus, like i said, that "no lynch" thing pinged the living daylights out of me Day Zero. LIVING DAYLIGHTS.

Fair enough, duly noted. I agree with you on the "no lynch" thing, but him saying that didn't ping me really.

I still think you're suspicious, but I'm willing to shut up about it for a bit.

Why? Because i suspect someone you do not and i am tenaciously pursuing it? Again, you know me, right? Unless you are saying I am suspicious in the SVS way that i always am suspicious. If that is the case say so, and stop trying to say you have a real basis for it. that i can understand, i get that all the time.

Seriously? This is just making me more suspicious of you. That is not AT ALL why I suspect you. I already said: you tenaciously pursuing people is totally in character for you. And it has absolutely nothing to do with you suspecting someone I do not (Besides, I already admitted the points made against Made, lol, are valid, I'm just not sure whether that makes him a crazy civvie or actually bad yet).

I think you're suspicious because I believe you're fabricating a suspicion of Made that you don't really believe is true. Not only that, but you refuse to talk about absolutely anyone else. And your suspicion of Made popped up around a time I found it to be opportunistic. And in fact, yes, you may be tenaciously pursuing it, but as I said before, as a civvie you at least are aggressive all around and I personally believe you'd be pursuing it differently. I think you're trying too hard to seem like your civvie self.

LINKI

The bolded part makes no sense at all. Of course I believe it. He got my eye on Day Zero for the No Lynch thing to start, but then for saying he was tempted to do the maths re odds. How? With one number? He would have to have some additional knowledge of the composition of the roles to do that, and indeed, at some later point he speculated about how many baddies were split between teams.

While we must acknowledge the possiblity of mafia teams, I agree. Mafia being on two seperate teams/evenly split between teams (which is probably more likely anyways) is more likely anyways.

He then makes this "joke post":

we COULD just kill someone who didn't show up to the challenge ...real talk tho wink winks, how many of you guys were there and how many of you saw the movie?



Also, I'd say chat's pretty irrlevant because everyone (probably) wanted to win.....assuming there aren't any team of 3+. and even if there was, avoiding the chatroom all together makes more sense than sabotage.


3 fucking brag linkis really?

Then a bit later this real one:

Made, do you find anyone suspicious right now?

The only thing that rubbed me the wrong way was BWT's lack of participation during the game. he was there for 2 mintues before the game, but didn't post questions in chat or answer in the thread. He said he had dinner in 2 mintues, around question 7 or 8 so it may be excusable, but still. Most i got.

Why would not fully participating in the challenge make BWT suspicious? It would be an awesome reason to make a spacegoat out of him though. Which is precisely what this looks like to me. And civvies don't need spacegoats.

For the most part, these things are the main reasons I suspect him. Talking about the numbers as if he knew what some of them were, and suspecting people for a specious reason.

The other stuff, for the most part i did not see. I was in the chat about 40 mins or so before the challenge started trying to wheedle/guilt the hosts into changing the time, then I was in the thread watching from the bus, since I could not participate. So i did not see any slip, or subsequent scripts in the chatroom before it was cleared, and my thoughts on him have nothing to do with those things. When i first got home, I went right to the chat, but Rox had just cleared it. When he posted like 40 mins later that she had just cleared it, I went and looked, and he had not been in there since it was cleared. He did subsequently go in there after I posted that he had not been in there.

Enrique asked why this made him bad, and I don't know that it does. It does mean he made something up. Which to my mind adds to the totality of the picture.

I am requoting you here, MP, the last paragraph as there is so much between where I originally quoted you and here:

I think you're suspicious because I believe you're fabricating a suspicion of Made that you don't really believe is true. Not only that, but you refuse to talk about absolutely anyone else. And your suspicion of Made popped up around a time I found it to be opportunistic. And in fact, yes, you may be tenaciously pursuing it, but as I said before, as a civvie you at least are aggressive all around and I personally believe you'd be pursuing it differently. I think you're trying too hard to seem like your civvie self.

I really firmly believe this, and I have no idea why you think i an fabricating this, and that I don't think it's true, lol. I am playing VERY hard, yes. I have not had so much fun in a thread in ages. I don't believe i would be pursuing it differently, I have been accused of tunnelvision more than even Reywas.

What exactly was "opportunistic" about my timing? I first questioned Made on Day Zero, than specifically noted specific things he said on Day One. And don't tell me it was becasue i am taking advantage of an easy victim~ you were in the baddie chat in Fight Club~ you know i wanted to kill the rest of the cops, not recruit them, specifically becasue i did not want to alienate INH or hurt his feelings, since my knowledge of his feeling led me to believe he might be hurt by that. I am not someone to take advantage of a nub for the lulz, or because he is an easy victim. And you know that about me maybe more than anyone else.

And I think NO ONE has talked about any suspicions other than that of Made, not just me. Oh except those saying I am suspicious, lol. I will weigh in on that; I am definitely not bad.

Also, LC, I look forward to that.

What happened to the S~V~S that ALWAYS gives newbies a pass on Day 1 (a la Thomas)? Why aren't you understanding here that Made has only played one (speed) game before? I'm not saying you should bypass suspicion of him for that, but you seem to not take it into consideration when you find him suspicious for things. Almost everyone around here is grilling Made, except for perhaps one of the two people that know him BEST (Enrique), for gameplay that is just odd and wacky and inexplicable, but not exactly beneficial for a baddie to take.

How the heck could his day 0 comment about no lynch PING YOU LIKE CRAZY, as you've said? You and I both know there are other sites that have a no lynch option (KSite, for one), and while I agree with you that I don't like the option, how can you not understand a scenario where Made is still pretty new to the game, a lone civvie, and knows only tangentially about the rules of the game, and thought, hey, maybe a no lynch option is in our best interest, even if you disagree?

It's opportunistic because even though you questioned Made you didn't start pushing hard until Llama came forth with his observation.

What benefit would a baddie have to lie about the amount of minutes a chat was closed down or erased?

[Tangrowth]

I think Llama is genuine in his suspicion of Made, especially given the way he declared his observations and his posts since. Maybe others are too. But I'm absolutely CONVINCED that baddies would love to jump on this train and then come back and point fingers at Llama and originally me, until I started considering the counterarguments more. I believe one of those baddies is likely S~V~S. Seriously, go back and read her posts. She may have questioned Made about the D0 thing, but she didn't really start ramping up her suspicion of Made until after all of this discussion that Llama started. Additionally, I just can't get my finger around it, but the way you're going about your 'tunnel vision' and the way you've spoken about it just seems like you're trying too hard to seem like your normal civvie self.

[reywaS]

So, Made, just to be clear, you are saying that you were logged into the chat before, during, and after the time Roxy cleared it?

[Bullzeye]

What happened to the S~V~S that ALWAYS gives newbies a pass on Day 1 (a la Thomas)? Why aren't you understanding here that Made has only played one (speed) game before? I'm not saying you should bypass suspicion of him for that, but you seem to not take it into consideration when you find him suspicious for things. Almost everyone around here is grilling Made, except for perhaps one of the two people that know him BEST (Enrique), for gameplay that is just odd and wacky and inexplicable, but not exactly beneficial for a baddie to take.

How the heck could his day 0 comment about no lynch PING YOU LIKE CRAZY, as you've said? You and I both know there are other sites that have a no lynch option (KSite, for one), and while I agree with you that I don't like the option, how can you not understand a scenario where Made is still pretty new to the game, a lone civvie, and knows only tangentially about the rules of the game, and thought, hey, maybe a no lynch option is in our best interest, even if you disagree?

It's opportunistic because even though you questioned Made you didn't start pushing hard until Llama came forth with his observation.

What benefit would a baddie have to lie about the amount of minutes a chat was closed down or erased?

This post just made me think a bit. If Made was bad, wouldn't he have teammates that could help him/tell him what not to do/clarify misunderstandings such as his mistaken belief about discussing who might have btsc? I'm still not sure either way on him, I doubt myself then doubt my doubts.

[Tangrowth]

Well that was a riveting read. As far as Made goes, on the one hand I agree with this summary here:

But this is someone who multiple times said "if he were" and even more declarative statements that he was on a baddie team and was just revealed to be a civvie. And it's just his second game.

I just think if he had was a baddie, he would have learned so much from all the craziness he committed in Misfits and would be playing differently. He's a paranoid as F civvie. Totally reminds me of MR F in a way.

It just all seems too easy.

When Made flipped civ in Misfits my mind wasn't just blown, it launched itself out of the back of my head and splattered across my bedroom wall. I was more sure of him being bad than I was of the sky being blue. I think the comparison to MR F is a good one (I wouldn't be surprised if he started ranting in French about Dex est MOM or claiming that people are possessed and trying to exorcise them) and could see how some of his comments might just be another case of putting his foot in his mouth like in Misfits. On the other hand there is the whole thing about the chat where he said he couldn't retrieve a piece of info because it had been cleared '8 seconds ago' but later said he'd gone off memory. That doesn't make sense and nor does it work alongside the 'Made is just zany' theory in my opinion.

Yeah, same here.

It doesn't make sense to me either, but how does it not work alongside that theory?

I still entertain Made could even be a baddie and still be scapegoated by the other team, assuming there are two teams. But it just seems less likely to me at this point. Do you not recall how many times he lied about being Virtue in the other game?

I put some value in Enrique's opinion of him, especially because I have no reason to believe Enrique is being particularly malicious at the moment, just as I would put some value in Epignosis's opinion of Elo if I had no reason with Epig. Does that mean I'm relying solely upon those? Not at all. In fact, it hardly makes any impact. Everything I've said is my own interpretation right now. But I think it only vindicates my current thoughts on the matter.

[Tangrowth]

What did you find weird about my post? What made you crick your brow?

Disregard, I got confused because Made added a comment in your post in a different color that I thought he was highlighting that you originally said and it made me read your post differently.

[reywaS]

Bullzeye, I think it's an exercise in futility to try to figure out how any random baddie team would help (or not) a new player.

[thellama73]

Good morning all!

If llama found my "I doubt the other team has this" commentweird, why wouldn't he mention it during chat.

As a matter of fact, I did mention it in the chat. I said something along the lines of "Do you know that because your teammates told you?" after you had finished all the posts we previously talked about. I saw no point in dwelling on it there, though, since I was trying to win a contest.

[Tangrowth]

One other thing I find odd is Epig's declaration that my joking statement that I'm bad often and I'm sick of it is the most suspicious thing that's been said in the thread. I'm curious if he still thinks that is the case.

[Tangrowth]

Bullzeye, I think it's an exercise in futility to try to figure out how any random baddie team would help (or not) a new player.

This is probably true.

Now I'll entertain Made being bad, but I think the way everything has gone down so far has convinced me that it's not as likely. You told me not to presume, Rey, and I agree what you said is possible, but what are you currently thinking about it?

[Bullzeye]

Well that was a riveting read. As far as Made goes, on the one hand I agree with this summary here:

But this is someone who multiple times said "if he were" and even more declarative statements that he was on a baddie team and was just revealed to be a civvie. And it's just his second game.

I just think if he had was a baddie, he would have learned so much from all the craziness he committed in Misfits and would be playing differently. He's a paranoid as F civvie. Totally reminds me of MR F in a way.

It just all seems too easy.

When Made flipped civ in Misfits my mind wasn't just blown, it launched itself out of the back of my head and splattered across my bedroom wall. I was more sure of him being bad than I was of the sky being blue. I think the comparison to MR F is a good one (I wouldn't be surprised if he started ranting in French about Dex est MOM or claiming that people are possessed and trying to exorcise them) and could see how some of his comments might just be another case of putting his foot in his mouth like in Misfits. On the other hand there is the whole thing about the chat where he said he couldn't retrieve a piece of info because it had been cleared '8 seconds ago' but later said he'd gone off memory. That doesn't make sense and nor does it work alongside the 'Made is just zany' theory in my opinion.

Yeah, same here.

It doesn't make sense to me either, but how does it not work alongside that theory?

I'm not sure I can explain my thinking especially well here but basically I see a difference between Made saying odd things and implying he might have btsc or whatever and him saying things that just don't add up together. The first group make him zany and not necessarily bad, the second make me suspicious.

I still entertain Made could even be a baddie and still be scapegoated by the other team, assuming there are two teams. But it just seems less likely to me at this point. Do you not recall how many times he lied about being Virtue in the other game?

Yeah, I remember it of course. I'm not saying I think he's bad but I'm not saying I don't either. My vote is still very much up for grabs and I may never vote for Made at all. Doesn't mean I won't wonder out loud about him. He is someone who is clearly going to always be difficult to read due to his play style and I can foresee him being wrongly lynched many times in the future but discussion is never a bad thing.

[Boogs]

Holy....poopsicles! This thread is going nuts and we have more chat than any other game I've played on a Day 1! Lol! I have no freaking clue what to think. I'm out of the loop, and big games are overwhelming but I see that Made and Enrique seem to be public enemies 1 and 2. I don't see anyone on the lynch list I could right now definitely say I felt pinged and vote for. But, I'm curious to continue to see the Made thing and Enrique/Llama thing have more discussion. The only thing Made has done to make me think he's being weird is talking "normal" in this game because in the last game, he was talking more "gangster". I don't know if that is a reason to think he's bad, but it just makes me notice his behavior seems to be much different in his responses and the way he is talking this game. So idk. I wish I had been able to participate in the challenge thing and have seen what was going on in my room to better feel for those people for tomorrow if Roxy is possibly going to put the Winkers on the lynch block. I'm not sure if every day is a challenge or not, which would be interesting because baddies could vote together to try to stay off the block. But, I have no idea who is in the game since we have no roles so it seems larger games have more than one Baddie team.

[reywaS]

Bullzeye, I think it's an exercise in futility to try to figure out how any random baddie team would help (or not) a new player.

This is probably true.

Now I'll entertain Made being bad, but I think the way everything has gone down so far has convinced me that it's not as likely. You told me not to presume, Rey, and I agree what you said is possible, but what are you currently thinking about it?

Last night I was leaning about 65/35 in favor of Made being bad. I should point out, however, that last night I spent a solid hour reading the thread and getting into mafia for the first time in over a month. After sleeping, returning to the thread, and reading everything that's been said since, I am back to 50/50. The fact that this is only Made's 2nd game and remembering all the noobs (myself included) that start off their mafia "careers" being wrongly lynched gives me pause for certain. I'm not ready to vote for Made quite yet. At the same time, if I HAD to vote right now, I would vote that way.