The Elder Scrolls [GAME OVER]

#5001

Oh you have. Good.

#5002

DaisyCloud wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 7:36 pm how come @Vulgard isn't on the voting poll?

@Sloonei

I'm immune to votes today. My previous slot holder went to Chaos and I guess this is the consequence. Because I haven't been following the game, I didn't change my action, assuming it was mechanically sound - or at least, not terrible.

I can still vote.

#5003

There's only one player whose ISO I have read, that being Marmot. I'm fairly confident Marmot's town despite being a wagon so many times.

#5004

I'll point out that while studying Marmot's ISO, I saw a couple of Scotty's posts and found them wolfy. I check LC's ISO (since he's the top wagon rn) and I see a redcheck on Scotty.

I don't know about you, but I believe it.

#5005

Vulgard wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 3:32 am There's only one player whose ISO I have read, that being Marmot. I'm fairly confident Marmot's town despite being a wagon so many times.

Soooo...fresh eyes, when you have time...

I have a problem with two of my top towns.

One is claiming a red check on the other. Wild guess, this issue is going to define the day anyway, so if you could look into Scotty v Long Con; the Cataclysm that would be extremely helpful.

#5006

Checked LC's ISO and I think it's fine. Leaning town. A few things that stood out to me were how his reads didn't look like TMI and how he had a brief stint with Mac on day 1 that didn't look partnered.

Not much solving in his ISO, but I know that: 1. that's not entirely unusual for him and 2. I don't get a sense of TMI. Since I'm going to directly compare this to Scotty's ISO, the read might trend down.

Going to check Scotty's real quick.

#5007

I don't really town read Scotty.

But I also don't town read LC.

I basically just don't town read.

#5008

I don't really town read Scotty.

But I also don't town read LC.

I basically just don't town read.

#5009

In before Vulgard sees that Scotty's ISO is freaking immense.

#5010

Lemme say it again...

#5011

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 3:49 am Lemme say it again...

I saw it the first two times.

It was funny.

#5012

Just read Scotty and Long Con. Make a choice between the two.

#5013

Nachomamma8 wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 3:54 am Just read Scotty and Long Con. Make a choice between the two.

That is kinda where this day is headed, yeah.

#5014

Short message: I think Scotty's the wolf between the two.

Long message: I read his ISO until D3. His wack treatment of Mac, constant hedging, potentially TMIng the D2 wagons as V/V and supreme focus on mechanics that doesn't seem to inform his reads make me think he's a wolf trying to look like he's solving the game when he isn't.

#5015

I have a much longer explanation in a doc but I'm not sure if anybody wants to see it. It's long.

#5016

Nachomamma8 wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 3:54 am Just read Scotty and Long Con. Make a choice between the two.

Your take on that? Preferably with more than one sentence of explanation.

#5017

Since I'm coming into the game with a fresh mind, give me people who are considered null and I'll try to read them.

I'm in a unique position here as someone who replaced into a town slot and hasn't backread the game yet. I might be able to avoid biases.

#5018

Vulgard wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 4:58 am Since I'm coming into the game with a fresh mind, give me people who are considered null and I'll try to read them.

I'm in a unique position here as someone who replaced into a town slot and hasn't backread the game yet. I might be able to avoid biases.

Hey I'm in that position too.

Let's dynamic duo it.

#5019

I'll read Quin, your previous slot holder, first.

#5020

Okay, that was a short trip.

There's one post I vaguely like, the read on Kyle. Other than that, null.

Time to dive into MR.

#5021

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 3:25 am
Gavial wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 3:03 am
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 2:01 am TSP is doing that thing where he's TSP. That's good.
.......
Why do people think this is town.
Especially TSP.
Start a wagon on me.

What do you think I’m doing?
Where do you think my votes placed?

#5022

Okay MR's iso is funny as hell and there's one post I think is townie as hell in hindsight (the one about Mac).

Consider me pocketed for the foreseeable future.

#5023

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 5:23 am
Vulgard wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 4:58 am Since I'm coming into the game with a fresh mind, give me people who are considered null and I'll try to read them.

I'm in a unique position here as someone who replaced into a town slot and hasn't backread the game yet. I might be able to avoid biases.
Hey I'm in that position too.

Let's dynamic duo it.

This is a clear pocket attempt.
Vulgard is cleared as Town via Radish scum flip.

#5024

Gavial's town because this is too stupid to come from mafia!him. I've played with Gavial numerous times before and caught him as wolf every time. He's not a wolf in this game.

#5025

Vulgard wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 5:31 am Okay MR's iso is funny as hell and there's one post I think is townie as hell in hindsight (the one about Mac).

Consider me pocketed for the foreseeable future.

Shame on you allowing a vegetable to do this to you!

#5026

Nah, I checked again. MR's ISO is very towny. The highlight is his treatment of Mac, I don't think they are ever partnered based on that alone. He can theoretically still be 3P, but I am not a 3P hunter.

MR, trust me that Gavial's town based on the posts that I've seen. I have a good handle on reading him. If you'd like me to prove it, I can link to past games where I either caught him as wolf or correctly defended him.

#5027

Your thoughts on Tim? I thought Tim was town but I haven't ISO-dived him yet.

#5028

Vulgard wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 5:38 am Nah, I checked again. MR's ISO is very towny. The highlight is his treatment of Mac, I don't think they are ever partnered based on that alone. He can theoretically still be 3P, but I am not a 3P hunter.

MR, trust me that Gavial's town based on the posts that I've seen. I have a good handle on reading him. If you'd like me to prove it, I can link to past games where I either caught him as wolf or correctly defended him.

Joke on you me and Tim are SK Masons!

#5029

Vulgard wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 5:38 am Your thoughts on Tim? I thought Tim was town but I haven't ISO-dived him yet.

The way Mac handled Tim seemed very much like W/T but in reality I think it’s W/3P.
I think Mac Consig’ed Tim as SK.
Scotty being mafia and pushing Tim today yet proves Tim isn’t mafia but likely SK.

#5030

Leave Tim alone!
We only vote SK when only 1 Mafia remains!

#5031

Why do you think Scotty being mafia is a given? I know I called him a wolf because I townread Long Con and don't townread what Scotty's been doing, but you're treating LC's check as 100% real even though you should be uninformed.

What makes Tim a 3p based on Tim's play? Where did Mac accuse Tim in a way that made it look like he rolecopped Tim as 3p, specifically SK?

TL;DR Do you have any evidence/basis for what you've just said?

#5032

I’m saying IF Scotty mafia

#5033

Vulgard wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 5:43 am Why do you think Scotty being mafia is a given? I know I called him a wolf because I townread Long Con and don't townread what Scotty's been doing, but you're treating LC's check as 100% real even though you should be uninformed.

What makes Tim a 3p based on Tim's play? Where did Mac accuse Tim in a way that made it look like he rolecopped Tim as 3p, specifically SK?

TL;DR Do you have any evidence/basis for what you've just said?

If you read my ISO you can find it.
I said it directly to Mac.

#5034

I see you reaching that conclusion, I don't see HOW you reached it.

I need to read DaisyCloud, will be back once I'm done and can post again.

#5035

I think Daisy's a wolf.

- Her ISO is a hedge maze.
- Her townreads contain at least two wolves. Scotty and Mac. Both have never been explained, she just plopped them in there.
- Her pushes have been wolfsided. Pushes on Gavial who I'm certain is town. OMGUS push on Jack who wrote a great case on her.
- Does not seem to care much about the d1 wagons or the d2 wagons, both of which were V/V from my perspective.
- Asks literal hundreds of questions, yet they don't inform her reads. I never saw her come back to any question she had asked prior. She asks them and moves on.
- Her actions such as the pinging of inactives and mechanical discussion look performative. Instead of wolfhunting, she tries to get people to do things; but not things that comprise wolfhunting.
- Her argument with Kyle is a major part of her d1 ISO. After it's over, though, she plops a townread on Kyle and never comes back to this. In her later readlists, Kyle actually trends down, but there's no visible reason for it.
- Her playstyle is extremely chaotic, but has no wolfhunting direction. She has stuck to three townreads her entire game. Her scumreads have fluctuated without a decent sense of progression. And her reasons for pushing some scumreads (which she does rarely; she has only done this twice in this entire game, as described below) are terrible.
- Her initial reason for pushing on Gavial is because he... easily claimed his role. And she doesn't even call him mafia, she says he's better off removed from the game because wolves can exploit his bad position, or he's mafia.
- Her reason for pushing on Jack is terrible. She pushes him because she thinks his case on her is a false narrative. Even when other people point out that it might not be, she ignores that. It's basically OMGUS.
- She writes a ton of LAMIST posts. Many include "I am very town"-type statements.
- Her posts look padded. She might just be a rambly person, but I've read all her long posts and they all say almost nothing of value. Makes me think they were written for towncred.

#5036

Vulgard wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 7:09 am I think Daisy's a wolf.

- Her ISO is a hedge maze.
- Her townreads contain at least two wolves. Scotty and Mac. Both have never been explained, she just plopped them in there.
- Her pushes have been wolfsided. Pushes on Gavial who I'm certain is town. OMGUS push on Jack who wrote a great case on her.
- Does not seem to care much about the d1 wagons or the d2 wagons, both of which were V/V from my perspective.
- Asks literal hundreds of questions, yet they don't inform her reads. I never saw her come back to any question she had asked prior. She asks them and moves on.
- Her actions such as the pinging of inactives and mechanical discussion look performative. Instead of wolfhunting, she tries to get people to do things; but not things that comprise wolfhunting.
- Her argument with Kyle is a major part of her d1 ISO. After it's over, though, she plops a townread on Kyle and never comes back to this. In her later readlists, Kyle actually trends down, but there's no visible reason for it.
- Her playstyle is extremely chaotic, but has no wolfhunting direction. She has stuck to three townreads her entire game. Her scumreads have fluctuated without a decent sense of progression. And her reasons for pushing some scumreads (which she does rarely; she has only done this twice in this entire game, as described below) are terrible.
- Her initial reason for pushing on Gavial is because he... easily claimed his role. And she doesn't even call him mafia, she says he's better off removed from the game because wolves can exploit his bad position, or he's mafia.
- Her reason for pushing on Jack is terrible. She pushes him because she thinks his case on her is a false narrative. Even when other people point out that it might not be, she ignores that. It's basically OMGUS.
- She writes a ton of LAMIST posts. Many include "I am very town"-type statements.
- Her posts look padded. She might just be a rambly person, but I've read all her long posts and they all say almost nothing of value. Makes me think they were written for towncred.

this is good. you have me convinced. let's lynch DaisyCloud

#5037

[VOTE: DaisyCloud] aubergine

#5038

if im lynched and you guys see i am town. please for the love of gravy lynch/kill gavial. okay thanks

#5039

This doesn't make DaisyCloud town, by the way. In case that isn't obvious to some people.

#5040

DaisyCloud, I'm not planning to kill you today unless we have a dayvig that can resolve the LC/Scotty thunderdome. That has to be resolved first, I can't see them both surviving this day phase.

So if you're town and I'm misreading you, how about you try and show us you're a villager? I've listed my complaints about your slot. I honestly initially called you town, but then I flipped my read because your posts seemed overwhelming in a way I didn't find villagery.

Because really, if you're town here, then you're in a good spot. You're not getting killed today, and you have attention. Your reads and takes are guaranteed to be heard.

One thing I'd like you to explain is to go into depth why you think Gavial and Jack are mafia. And I mean into depth. Not just one reason per player.

@DaisyCloud

#5041

Vulgard wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 5:32 am Gavial's town because this is too stupid to come from mafia!him. I've played with Gavial numerous times before and caught him as wolf every time. He's not a wolf in this game.

I accept this. I was kind of moving off him after the Mac flip anyway.

#5042

Nachomamma's ISO I could best describe as inoffensive. There's nothing in it that definitively told me they have no TMI. But it is not a dumpster fire and I do not want to kill this yet.

Falcon's ISO is a step below that. He spent most of the game pushing LHF. The push on Marmot is especially notable because he's tunneled on it hard. If Marmot's mafia, then this looks better for him, but I currently don't think Marmot's a wolf.

#5043

BK is a low-efforting villager. I can see the fluidity of his progression, and he's sufficiently engaged when he's in thread. Which isn't often, but still.

#5044

If I squint, I see a world where DaisyCloud's town. I'll get back to thinking about it once I've ISOd everyone in this game.

#5045

I think your reasons on Daisy are valid. Like the questions but no follow up and apathy towards wagons are definite scum behavioural tendencies.

But when she and Jack were bickering earlier it was one of the few events of the game I've been somewhat present for, and it felt quite t/t to me. I felt like the frustration and omgusing had a delicate hint of genuineness to them.

So I dunno. Despite the logic, I'm not convinced.

#5046

TSP is town or 3p. I don't see signs of TMI in his ISO but he doesn't feel super engaged. Yet the stuff he DID write makes me think he's not mafia. I especially like the way he handled the DaisyCloud vs Jack fight on day 3. Feels like he genuinely wants to break it up for town's benefit. He doesn't take a stance there but it doesn't feel like he's hesitant to take a stance, if you catch my drift. It checks out with his reads on both Jack and DaisyCloud; he sees what he perceives as V/V combat and wants to end it.

The idea of Gavial being 3p SK is viable in my eyes. He's definitely not mafia with TMI because he wouldn't play like this as mafia. 3p isn't off the table, though, I should've mentioned it. The wheel thing could be a distraction designed to take our eyes off him being the 3p.

#5047

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 9:02 am I think your reasons on Daisy are valid. Like the questions but no follow up and apathy towards wagons are definite scum behavioural tendencies.

But when she and Jack were bickering earlier it was one of the few events of the game I've been somewhat present for, and it felt quite t/t to me. I felt like the frustration and omgusing had a delicate hint of genuineness to them.

So I dunno. Despite the logic, I'm not convinced.

I'll get back to DaisyCloud once I've read everyone else. I'm trying to figure out whether her peacing out with a selfvote makes sense from mafia. In this gamestate, wolves are still winning (I presume). Omegathonk.

#5048

Pretty sure Kyle's town. His thought progression's pretty fluid all game. I don't see the wolf motivation in anything he's done.

#5049

Ignore my BK read, I forgot he died and flipped town.

#5050

"Sean does this gambit thing as town, i think that what he's trying here. Though in his mind he thinks he right but he is not usually."

This read from Monkey made me think Monkey could be mafia. Their D1 ISO isn't spectacular in general, but this particular read looks like TMI.

Day 1 townreads were: alison, mac, tsp, sean, scottie and kza.

And yet, day 2, defends Daisy because she had been townie. I suppose this means Monkey invisibly flipped their read on Daisy? Daisy wasn't in their d1 town circle. No previous posts about monkey's read on Daisy, either.

Day 2 townreads: kza, scottie, syn, DC and mac.

Daisy isn't on the list, again. ...Huh? After Monkey defended Daisy?

Day 3 townreads: scottie, Daisy, KZA, Mac and BK.

But now Daisy's here.

Then Jack is added to the town circle.

"I know i am an easy lynch but you trying too hard. If i didn't have you as a town read you would have been a scum read for me."

@ Mac.

This is 100% written by a villager. In a world where lost monkey is mafia, this is W/W. And in a world where that's W/W... it's way too awkward to be a W/W interaction. Way too awkward. This comes from a place of "this person is giving me bad vibes but I townread them before and I'm sticking with it." Not phrased very well, but that's the sentiment I see and that's why it's towny.

TL;DR Monkey's town. It's an awkward villager with inconsistent reads on occasion. A quiet presence. Not wolfhunting, but not because they are a wolf. It's someone who doesn't feel the pressure to contribute a lot to the game, and instead plays at their own pace. Mostly by posting townreads.

Who is Molag Bal's Champion?