Game Over! Monty Python and the Holy Grail

[Mister Rearranger]

MP: I'd like to have at least heard your thoughts on Daisy's vote for you. :/

[Marmot]

Count me in on the "interested in what Made and Rey have to say" group.

MR, since you're here, I've been wondering what this post meant.

[thellama73]

Holy crap, there's no way I can catch up. I have been up since before dawn studying literature for my Empirical Accounting and Economics Research Seminar class and have so much more to go, not to mention my other classes, and then I am busy in classes from 2:30 to 7:30 central time.

And it seems I have votes. I have not read any more since my last post but I frankly don't understand why people are finding me suspicious, but it's disappointing. It might be best for me anyway though considering RL circumstances, but that doesn't change the disappointment or the fact that my accusers are either mistaken civvies or taking advantage of my playstyle to get a civvie lynched.

I don't know if I'm going to need to save myself and I find it almost impossible I'll be here any earlier than three hours before the poll closes, so I'm voting S~V~S because that's where I want to vote. I don't really think Made is bad, but I'll probably pop in really quickly later to see if I need to save myself, even though I probably can't even if I wanted to.

Votes S~V~S

Your Sonic Speed Game is up in the queue. Get cracking!

[Mister Rearranger]

Count me in on the "interested in what Made and Rey have to say" group.

MR, since you're here, I've been wondering what this post meant.

I guess I did found that "group", lol.

In my head, it was more of a term covering all those who were questioning Made, iirc. Rey was the biggest standout to me; Llama too, right?

[Marmot]

Count me in on the "interested in what Made and Rey have to say" group.

MR, since you're here, I've been wondering what this post meant.

I guess I did found that "group", lol.

In my head, it was more of a term covering all those who were questioning Made, iirc. Rey was the biggest standout to me; Llama too, right?

llama, definitely. As for rey, well there were others too. He didn't stand out to me anyway.

[juliets]

Count me in on the "interested in what Made and Rey have to say" group.

MR, since you're here, I've been wondering what this post meant.

I guess I did found that "group", lol.

In my head, it was more of a term covering all those who were questioning Made, iirc. Rey was the biggest standout to me; Llama too, right?

i'm a little confused here. MR are you saying it was not good to question Made?

[thellama73]

With a tied vote and plenty more still to come in, it's going to be very interesting to see how this develops. Hopefully we will learn something.

[Epignosis]

With a tied vote and plenty more still to come in, it's going to be very interesting to see how this develops. Hopefully we will learn something.

What tie?

[reywaS]

So these are the opinions I have found about the people who are currently on the poll.

Juliets - I'm not feeling great about JC. In my opinion she seems to be trying to fly under the radar, not coming out against anyone. Most of her posts say that she isn't suspicious of Made or Llama but she doesn't seem to make much, if any, effort to say who she is suspicious of. The only hint at who might get her vote today is that she says she will vote to save Llama if necessary. My gut says she's not trustworthy and trying to be blendy.

Feel bad about: MP, JC.

I'm often this way at the beginning of games - not sure who to vote for, not sure what to commit to, just generally feeling like I don't know a lot. I've not come out against anyone because I don't feel comfortable that I've got anything on anyone. I have however said that at least part of what llama said, the essence of what he said, is what I saw. I would say that is pretty definitive and definitely not blendy. I will not vote for llama and I will not vote for made. Over the last day I've been convinced that they are both civs which is I think a conclusion a lot of people have come to. If I have to I'll random with llama and made out of the equation. Otherwise I'm not sure what I'm going to do. Am I the only one in the whole game who is unsure at this point?

Also, I am getting ready to leave town tomorrow and cannot afford to be on this site all day. I will check-in when I can and answer any questions I can at those times.

Yes, you keep saying that you are often like this in the beginning of games...that you are unsure who to vote for, etc...and that may very well be true. But in my experience with you in games as a civvie, you seem to get more proactive in figuring those things out. You ask people for clarification on things you are unsure of for example.

mm - there was speculation by someone (I really can't remember who - I neeeeeeeedddddd coooffffeeeeeeeeeeee - that her reluctance to jump into the middle of the Made/llama thing was indicitive of baddie behavior. I'm not sure how I feel about that.

In my view she seems reluctant to jump into the middle of anything. That's what gives me bad feelings about her.

What would you like me to jump in the middle of? I dont understand your comment. Has everyone but me jumped in the middle of something? I'm smack in the middle of the made llama thing, isnt that enough?

Yes, you were in the middle of it for a spell, but your hand was forced there wasn't it?

[Mister Rearranger]

i'm a little confused here. MR are you saying it was not good to question Made?

No...? It's always good to question someone in a game of Mafia if you're looking for answers.

I wanted to see how Made responded to Rey's questions and how Rey would react to those responses.

[Hedgeowl]

I won't be around much the next few days, as I am packing today to go visit Llama's family this weekend and meet his new niece. Squeee!

Jealous!

Do you read that book to your son?

Ha! No, but we do read it to each other at night sometimes and laugh. We're saving it for when's he older.

[Hedgeowl]

Her vote lust= Hedgeowl?

Who does my vote lust after? That is a good question.

Also, pretty in love (lust?) with this thread and the Freudian "typos."

[Hedgeowl]

I'm often this way at the beginning of games - not sure who to vote for, not sure what to commit to, just generally feeling like I don't know a lot. I've not come out against anyone because I don't feel comfortable that I've got anything on anyone. I have however said that at least part of what llama said, the essence of what he said, is what I saw. I would say that is pretty definitive and definitely not blendy. I will not vote for llama and I will not vote for made. Over the last day I've been convinced that they are both civs which is I think a conclusion a lot of people have come to. If I have to I'll random with llama and made out of the equation. Otherwise I'm not sure what I'm going to do. Am I the only one in the whole game who is unsure at this point?

Of course you're not the only unsure person and nor am I saying you are. The feeling I get from your posts is that you've only really spoken about the Llama/Made thing without ever seeming to take one side or another. It looks to me like you've been trying to put yourself out there as someone who is joining conversations but at the same time you seem to be just going with the flow and not questioning much. Even here you say you might randomize on a day where a lot has happened.

With regard to your other post, my jump in the middle comment was just a rephrasing of Bea's comment about why people are talking about you. It was essentially repeating the points I've already made.

This is general is what I was thinking as well and these points had been brought up before. Of all the people in the Enri, llama, made, he said - she said debate I found the point of juliets explicitly staying out of the discussion to be noteworthy. It's not that you didnt comment, because you did, but it's how you commented that I found interesting.

[Hedgeowl]

I'm often this way at the beginning of games - not sure who to vote for, not sure what to commit to, just generally feeling like I don't know a lot. I've not come out against anyone because I don't feel comfortable that I've got anything on anyone. I have however said that at least part of what llama said, the essence of what he said, is what I saw. I would say that is pretty definitive and definitely not blendy. I will not vote for llama and I will not vote for made. Over the last day I've been convinced that they are both civs which is I think a conclusion a lot of people have come to. If I have to I'll random with llama and made out of the equation. Otherwise I'm not sure what I'm going to do. Am I the only one in the whole game who is unsure at this point?

Of course you're not the only unsure person and nor am I saying you are. The feeling I get from your posts is that you've only really spoken about the Llama/Made thing without ever seeming to take one side or another. It looks to me like you've been trying to put yourself out there as someone who is joining conversations but at the same time you seem to be just going with the flow and not questioning much. Even here you say you might randomize on a day where a lot has happened.

With regard to your other post, my jump in the middle comment was just a rephrasing of Bea's comment about why people are talking about you. It was essentially repeating the points I've already made.

This is general is what I was thinking as well and these points had been brought up before. Of all the people in the Enri, llama, made, he said - she said debate I found the point of juliets explicitly staying out of the discussion to be noteworthy. It's not that you didnt comment, because you did, but it's how you commented that I found interesting.

Ok, I have just finished a reread of juliets and put her in my non-suspect category for now. Reading the thread I was interested in the points Rey and now Bullz had made about your previous posting, but rereading you posts myself again I interpret them as genuine and sincere.

[reywaS]

i'm a little confused here. MR are you saying it was not good to question Made?

No...? It's always good to question someone in a game of Mafia if you're looking for answers.

I wanted to see how Made responded to Rey's questions and how Rey would react to those responses.

And what was your reaction to my reaction to Made's reaction to my question?

[Hedgeowl]

Ok, gotta run, so voting SVS for now in case I dont make it back i time.

My feelings currently are that either MP or SVS are possibly a baddie, but probably not both. SVS's super focus on Made earlier in the game, made me suspicious, but then he redirection to Metal I found equally interesting. I would think of her voting for her top suspect. That also might have been to redirect focus from the llama-Enri-Made arguments, but I still thought it was unlike her. It made me think she was reacting to the heat she was getting about her Made suspicions.

Votes SVS

[S~V~S]

This sounds like a hedge play (tee hee) to avoid responsibility when I turn up civ, "Oh I knew one of them must be bad, guess I picked the wrong one". And have you read what I said? I still suspect Made, but I feel that Enrique has said some things that gave me pause.

What do you think would have been more like me?

[juliets]

This has surely already been explained but what exactly is the suspicion about MP? I've lost the thread of that argument amongst the others.

[reywaS]

This sounds like a hedge play (tee hee) to avoid responsibility when I turn up civ, "Oh I knew one of them must be bad, guess I picked the wrong one". And have you read what I said? I still suspect Made, but I feel that Enrique has said some things that gave me pause.

What do you think would have been more like me?

I thought almost the exact same thing when I read it. Hedge is setting up Day 2 to be an easy vote. It does not matter which one is actually lynched, there is a prepackaged lynch candidate regardless of today's outcome.

[thellama73]

This sounds like a hedge play (tee hee) to avoid responsibility when I turn up civ, "Oh I knew one of them must be bad, guess I picked the wrong one". And have you read what I said? I still suspect Made, but I feel that Enrique has said some things that gave me pause.

What do you think would have been more like me?

At the risk of invoking the "YOU ALWAYS THINK I'M BAD!" accusation, this is exactly what I was thinking. Also looks like a deliberate attempt to avoid taking sides between MP and Made, and therefore ducking responsibility.

[Marmot]

This has surely already been explained but what exactly is the suspicion about MP? I've lost the thread of that argument amongst the others.

I believe that people see him as wishy-washy. 'Contributing without saying anything' as someone put it. He's the elephant in the room.

I haven't developed a strong opinion yet, though I really haven't tried. But Epi has gotten a rather unanimous good vibe from everyone, and he thinks MP is suspicious. There's some food for thought.

[reywaS]

Ok, gotta run, so voting SVS for now in case I dont make it back i time.

My feelings currently are that either MP or SVS are possibly a baddie, but probably not both. SVS's super focus on Made earlier in the game, made me suspicious, but then he redirection to Metal I found equally interesting. I would think of her voting for her top suspect. That also might have been to redirect focus from the llama-Enri-Made arguments, but I still thought it was unlike her. It made me think she was reacting to the heat she was getting about her Made suspicions.

Votes SVS

Just wanted to expand on this a little more. Saying that "probably not both" gives you an enormous amount of wiggle room in the event that one of the two of them is lynched today. If you had said that perhaps both of them may be bad, you wouldn't be able to avoid responsibility for the one that's lynched today and you wouldn't have a target for day 2...assuming the one lynched today flipped civvie.

This post rings a very loud alarm bell to me.

[DFaraday]

As someone who also takes awhile to get going in games, I can't be too harsh towards JC. I don't really have strong opinions yet either, and she seems genuine enough to me. I also don't know what to make of the Made/Llama thing, so I'll just...

*vote MR* because why not.

Enrique...sorry! I guess our actual interaction in games has been very limited.

[DFaraday]

Did you go by a different name, Enrique? I feel bad now.

Also, I forgot to mention above, Hedge is looking pretty shady now.

[S~V~S]

Tough crowd

[Hedgeowl]

Ok, gotta run, so voting SVS for now in case I dont make it back i time.

My feelings currently are that either MP or SVS are possibly a baddie, but probably not both. SVS's super focus on Made earlier in the game, made me suspicious, but then he redirection to Metal I found equally interesting. I would think of her voting for her top suspect. That also might have been to redirect focus from the llama-Enri-Made arguments, but I still thought it was unlike her. It made me think she was reacting to the heat she was getting about her Made suspicions.

Votes SVS

Just wanted to expand on this a little more. Saying that "probably not both" gives you an enormous amount of wiggle room in the event that one of the two of them is lynched today. If you had said that perhaps both of them may be bad, you wouldn't be able to avoid responsibility for the one that's lynched today and you wouldn't have a target for day 2...assuming the one lynched today flipped civvie.

This post rings a very loud alarm bell to me.

I seem to have ruffled some feathers so to speak. We don't know how many mafia teams there are this game, so I did say "probably" very purposely. I don't think they are on the same mafia team if there's more than one, considering MP himself voted for SVS.

This sounds like a hedge play (tee hee) to avoid responsibility when I turn up civ, "Oh I knew one of them must be bad, guess I picked the wrong one". And have you read what I said? I still suspect Made, but I feel that Enrique has said some things that gave me pause.

What do you think would have been more like me?

Considering MP has the lead, it may be unlikely that you will "turn up civ" as you stated this lynch, but if so apologies I still think you might be bad. The problem with being veteran players is that you are all so used to looking for classic baddie moves, ploys, tactics, etc. that when someone doesn't play that way, you lynch them and then say "oh well, they shouldn't have played such a baddie game. not my fault." I play a straight game pretty much all the time, just like you have been described SVS, but with different styles. Yes I may lie to your face if I am baddie, but I am not as conniving as people assume and llama thinks I am every game. This is the problem with the accusation on Made as well. He is a new player and people were convinced he was bad in misfits, because he played how they expect a baddie to play. Expand your horizons, open your minds. We are not all pulling the wool over your eyes. Some of us are just voting on Day 1.

Linki

[juliets]

MR, you never did answer my question about why you left and never came back to the challenge. I don't look at that positively when I'm evaluating people to vote for. It makes me think you are hiding something - like maybe you knew llama, made and I weren't on your team so you decided not to help us. Did you answer this question and I just missed it?

[thellama73]

llama thinks I am every game.

Called it.

[Enrique]

OMFG "totally get me" not "orally get me"

Holy fuck I'm done. I can't type.

Canuck, just wanna say, your posts have been a highlight of the game so far. Totally get you here

Im on my lunch and i don't quite understand everything going for MP right now and this thread is still way too much for me to read and analyze. Im going to need to vote so hopefully whatever you guys said about MP makes sense but I'm still feeling EEnrique being paranoid and too overly defensive is ringing baddie to me for some reason. Im willing to let Made not get my vote today and see what happens next between the Llama\made thing.
Votes Monsters Inc Enrique

Oh hey that's cool that you decided to vote for someone you've never played with before without discussing it with him or anyone else. Yeah, I play defensive a lot, get used to it I'm not into the whole day 1 easy lynch scene.

Paranoid? Yeah, I'd call myself the opposite of that, thank you. Not sure where you got that from at all.

I don't know who I'm gonna vote for yet. I'll have to think about it some more. I literally just woke up, posting this from bed. Lots of people who know llama better than I do say that this is his civvie game, and that he does stuff like this all the time. He's mellowed down a fair amount, too. If it comes down to llama vs Made I'd probably vote for him, but somehow I doubt that's what's gonna happen.

Gonna take a more serious look at MP, SVS, juliets, et al.

I don't think Hedge's post is too out there. I actually said something similar about the MP/SVS/Epig group earlier iirc. Nothing has convinced me SVS is bad, though, I'll most likely vote for MP. But I still don't know. I got a little over an hour to figure this out before I have to go to class.

This is the problem with the accusation on Made as well. He is a new player and people were convinced he was bad in misfits, because he played how they expect a baddie to play.

lol, to be honest, I followed that game... and I think hinting at baddie roles will get you lynched more often than not Hopefully Made learned something from that.

[Enrique]

Well this is a bit curious. The first three votes after llama (who also had his vote set to MP for a bit). Do we really feel that strongly about MP? Consecutive votes like that always make me uneasy. Grrr..

[bea]

Well this is a bit curious. The first three votes after llama (who also had his vote set to MP for a bit). Do we really feel that strongly about MP? Consecutive votes like that always make me uneasy. Grrr..

That's a fair point rico suave - I noticed that earlier too. They were quick and early.

While I am leaning toward an MP vote, I'm getting that sketched out "what if I'm wrong?" feeling.

Also - it was only a matter of time. I have eleventybilliontons of candy - but I'm now locked in the bedroom with the notebook and some BK while BDH does some mysterious "birthday things." I have no idea how long my imprisonment will last. I may need someone to send help!!

[thellama73]

Well this is a bit curious. The first three votes after llama (who also had his vote set to MP for a bit). Do we really feel that strongly about MP? Consecutive votes like that always make me uneasy. Grrr..

I kind of feel like Baddie Alex would have voted for Made in the hopes of saving his own skin, but the fact that he can change his vote is throwing a wrench in my analysis.

[S~V~S]

Well this is a bit curious. The first three votes after llama (who also had his vote set to MP for a bit). Do we really feel that strongly about MP? Consecutive votes like that always make me uneasy. Grrr..

His fiancée and his best friend feel that strongly about him.

[Enrique]

Well this is a bit curious. The first three votes after llama (who also had his vote set to MP for a bit). Do we really feel that strongly about MP? Consecutive votes like that always make me uneasy. Grrr..

His fiancée and his best friend feel that strongly about him.

Or they're trying to get rid of him.

[S~V~S]

So you think they might be bad just because they voted for MP?

[Enrique]

No, I'm saying I don't like early bandwagoning like that.

[thellama73]

No, I'm saying I don't like early bandwagoning like that.

But if you don't think they are bad, why don't you like their votes? If they are sincere, what does it matter that they voted in a row?

[Enrique]

No, I'm saying I don't like early bandwagoning like that.

But if you don't think they are bad, why don't you like their votes? If they are sincere, what does it matter that they voted in a row?

I'm saying they're making me uneasy about voting for Alex. I don't think they're bad, but they well could be and I'm just falling for it.

[Mongoose]

Well this is a bit curious. The first three votes after llama (who also had his vote set to MP for a bit). Do we really feel that strongly about MP? Consecutive votes like that always make me uneasy. Grrr..

His fiancée and his best friend feel that strongly about him.

Indeed. And perhaps in the position to read him best. My vote will lie there for now.

linki - I can't get into the wifom of that right now.

[thellama73]

No, I'm saying I don't like early bandwagoning like that.

But if you don't think they are bad, why don't you like their votes? If they are sincere, what does it matter that they voted in a row?

I'm saying they're making me uneasy about voting for Alex. I don't think they're bad, but they well could be and I'm just falling for it.

So you do think they might be bad?

[Enrique]

I think it's a possibility. Llama, let's not do this

[S~V~S]

No, I'm saying I don't like early bandwagoning like that.

You would rather have the votes spread? That opens thing up to manips, if there are any, and generally favors the baddies in general.

[Mister Rearranger]

@rey: You're both kosher by me. Still catching up though.

MR, you never did answer my question about why you left and never came back to the challenge. I don't look at that positively when I'm evaluating people to vote for. It makes me think you are hiding something - like maybe you knew llama, made and I weren't on your team so you decided not to help us. Did you answer this question and I just missed it?

I may have missed you asking it, sorry! Still catching up too.

I simply didn't hike back from getting my lunch/dinner until close to 7ish. I'm not keen on set-time challenges. "Post x amount of times" or stuff like that is doable, but I missed many "first person to send me the answer to this" challenges on LP; that's the kind of challenge I thought this might be. Had I realized the whole room would be penalized as a result I would not have brushed it off so nonchalantly.

On a different note, I have to find Dais's vote post. I think I skipped by it.

[thellama73]

I think it's a possibility. Llama, let's not do this

I'm sorry, Enrique. I guess I just don't understand you. YOu did the same thing with me. You said I exhibited "traditional baddie behavior" and then said you didn't think I was bad. You say you don't think these people are bad, but you suspect them because of their voting order. Why do you keep suspecting people you don't think are bad? Why not suspect someone you do think is bad? That's what I do.

[Enrique]

No, SVS, that's not what I'm saying at all. Look at how spread out the votes are right now, and consider that it all started with 4 (counting llama's first, which was later changed) consecutive votes for the same player. Followed by a bunch of votes for other people. That just doesn't give me a lot of confidence.

I'm sorry, Enrique. I guess I just don't understand you. YOu did the same thing with me. You said I exhibited "traditional baddie behavior" and then said you didn't think I was bad. You say you don't think these people are bad, but you suspect them because of their voting order. Why do you keep suspecting people you don't think are bad? Why not suspect someone you do think is bad? That's what I do.

I like to point out sketchy shit that could lead somewhere.

[thellama73]

I'm sorry, Enrique. I guess I just don't understand you. YOu did the same thing with me. You said I exhibited "traditional baddie behavior" and then said you didn't think I was bad. You say you don't think these people are bad, but you suspect them because of their voting order. Why do you keep suspecting people you don't think are bad? Why not suspect someone you do think is bad? That's what I do.

I like to point out sketchy shit that could lead somewhere.

It seems very non-comittal and attemtping to cover yourself to me. If someone gets lynched after you point out their behavior and flips civ, you can say "Hey, I said I didn't think they were bad and I was right!" As far as I can remember, you haven't named one person you think might be bad. Where is your vote going today?

[Enrique]

I'm not trying to get any of them lynched, llama, I'm pointing this out for future references.

My vote was likely going to be for MP. Then I found something that gave me some pause. Still haven't found a better place to put it.

[Mister Rearranger]

MP: I love you, but I think you are bad. Your posts have been too full of fishing for other opinions. You are too wishy washy. I feel like you are looking for a good case to stick too, and this SVS thing honestly reads like weird reasoning to me. Especially given how you have been pretty vocal in the past about how you know how bad you are at reading her and how you can get such tunnel vision about her. I just am not feeling your behavior this game at all. In fact, I am feeling so unsettled by it that I am willing to vote for you. No offense, but I just feel it in my gut you are bad.

Linki @ BWT, guess I'm not the only one who is not feeling like Alex is trustworthy this go round!

Here we are. Didn't help me much. I'm hesitating. This is a coin-flip situation for me since Daisy's read seems genuine and hits on many of the same things that stood out about MP as I read his posts regarding SVS.

However, the way multiple people hopped on him makes me wonder about deliberate coordination.

I vote MP as well for now and put some trust in my own gut. Also, good to know the vote is changeable! Thanks!

[Mister Rearranger]

As someone who also takes awhile to get going in games, I can't be too harsh towards JC. I don't really have strong opinions yet either, and she seems genuine enough to me. I also don't know what to make of the Made/Llama thing, so I'll just...

*vote MR* because why not.

Enrique...sorry! I guess our actual interaction in games has been very limited.

*waves @DF*

[S~V~S]

Same question as for Enrique, MR, do YOU think the people who voted for MP are bad? Or do you just think they might be cause they voted for MP?