The Elder Scrolls [GAME OVER]

[Timsup2nothin]

Based on EoD1 alone I see a world where Mac and Tim are powerwolfing the game. They talk to each other a lot about their takes but they don't seem eager to move to a wolf. The wagon options they discuss are all on flipped or likely villagers.

Yeah, team powerwolfing with Mac is not really something I would expect to end well. When I powerwolf I like to call the shots and have a pack that will back me, and that would not be Mac. No reason for you to just believe this, but if I were on a team with a powerwolfing Mac my job would be to just go deep.

[Vulgard]

Takeaways from EoD readings:

- DaisyCloud looks unpartnered with several people. I could make a case on her being wolf on an independent level. However, her interactions tell a different story, and she had a villagery response to my case. Not willing to go there as of right now.
- Tim's EoDs, at least the ones he was present for, have not looked great. In hindsight, they look like he is killing townies. And while a villager could indeed be killing townies, he especially sticks out. Why? He's spearheading most pushes. Mac is one person doing that, but he's the other. And those pushes have lead to three misyeets in a row. Tim, you must understand that this is a good reason to tinfoil/suspect you.
- Kyle looks a bit better from his EoD 2.
- Ambivalent on Marmot. Tried pretty hard to save himself at EoD 3, but that's the only time I saw him engaged in the EoD yeet. Meh.
- Falcon and Nacho have never done anything during EoDs. Ever. This fact alone makes me want to vote outside of them today. If they are wolves (especially if both are), then the village has been eating itself alive this entire game. The gamestate doesn't seem to support that. Mac has been supporting pushes on villagers, so they had at least one powerwolf. Would they rely on Mac to do everything for them?

[Vulgard]

The only thing I remember from Jack is him pushing DaisyCloud. I didn't see him during any EoDs.

A lot of people weren't present for EoDs, come to think of it. Could be the reason why we've been killing villagers.

[Vulgard]

Checked Falcon's ISO again and I'm content with leaving my vote there. Even though the wagon composition is... well, it could be better... I'm not coming around to the idea of him being town. He spent most of day 1 pushing LHF, day 2 kicked off with him trying to sell DaisyCloud V, and he's been going UTR.

[Vulgard]

EBWOP: DaisyCloud W.

[Scotty]

Read EoD1. I concede to Tim that he may be right about Nanook getting vigged in the night. Alison advocated for it and even the yeeted villager found Nanook wolfy. Which means that the kills should be swapped around (Nanook vigged, Alison SPKed). There's also the fact Alison claimed a super pro-town role early d1, so killing her would be +EV for wolves either way.

LC's EoD looks kinda wolfy. He parks a vote on Seanzie and it looks like he's shrugging when he places it.

Seanzie goes down flailing and giving us legacy reads. Nanook scum (wrong). Tim scum (we don't know). "Nook W, Enrique W." Nook is V, and I'm not W. "Tim W, Made V." Made's been greenchecked and Tim is in my PoE.

Tim/Mac EoD 1 interactions look mildly not W/W. I still think it's possible they are partners, though.

Tim disliked the Falcon wagon, and Alison defended Falcon hard for gamestate reasons. Yet now Tim's voting Falcon with me. Tim, what changed?

Time. Alison and I were defensing Falcon for basically the same reasons, but her belief in that read was a lot stronger. She's dead, but I have to live with it...and living with it has included being consistently wrong, so obviously my grip on the game state there was not as solid as I would like.

I'm also up against a wall here, which is: I cannot accept that in three days we never even sniffed a wolf. The only people who drew any significant push that have not flipped town are Marmot and Falcon. I am buying in on Marmot being town...maybe more grudgingly than some people are buying, but I'm buying. So basically that leaves either Falcon or we managed to get ourselves so absolutely bamboozled that we're probably just doomed.

Some people are at the "clear everyone left that we ever suspected and commence the tinfoiling!!! stage, and I'm not. I might have gotten there if the first tinfoil candidate were someone other than me maybe, but apparently I am.

Still waiting on you to look at possible partners from your Mac iso perusal

Tick tock

[Scotty]

Takeaways from EoD readings:

- DaisyCloud looks unpartnered with several people. I could make a case on her being wolf on an independent level. However, her interactions tell a different story, and she had a villagery response to my case. Not willing to go there as of right now.
- Tim's EoDs, at least the ones he was present for, have not looked great. In hindsight, they look like he is killing townies. And while a villager could indeed be killing townies, he especially sticks out. Why? He's spearheading most pushes. Mac is one person doing that, but he's the other. And those pushes have lead to three misyeets in a row. Tim, you must understand that this is a good reason to tinfoil/suspect you.
- Kyle looks a bit better from his EoD 2.
- Ambivalent on Marmot. Tried pretty hard to save himself at EoD 3, but that's the only time I saw him engaged in the EoD yeet. Meh.
- Falcon and Nacho have never done anything during EoDs. Ever. This fact alone makes me want to vote outside of them today. If they are wolves (especially if both are), then the village has been eating itself alive this entire game. The gamestate doesn't seem to support that. Mac has been supporting pushes on villagers, so they had at least one powerwolf. Would they rely on Mac to do everything for them?

To your last point- if Tim is a wolf, and we had 2 power wolves running the gambit the past few days, doesn’t it make sense to have a few blendy wolves that haven’t added thread direction? We were wrong about a few of those slankers, but there’s no way one of the Uber slankers aren’t bad, right?

[Scotty]

I think Vulgard is town. I don’t know how they normally play when bad, but this investigative look is very reasonable and seemingly organic.

[Scotty]

Ok ok vul now do EoD 4, I’m ready

[Timsup2nothin]

Takeaways from EoD readings:

- DaisyCloud looks unpartnered with several people. I could make a case on her being wolf on an independent level. However, her interactions tell a different story, and she had a villagery response to my case. Not willing to go there as of right now.
- Tim's EoDs, at least the ones he was present for, have not looked great. In hindsight, they look like he is killing townies. And while a villager could indeed be killing townies, he especially sticks out. Why? He's spearheading most pushes. Mac is one person doing that, but he's the other. And those pushes have lead to three misyeets in a row. Tim, you must understand that this is a good reason to tinfoil/suspect you.
- Kyle looks a bit better from his EoD 2.
- Ambivalent on Marmot. Tried pretty hard to save himself at EoD 3, but that's the only time I saw him engaged in the EoD yeet. Meh.
- Falcon and Nacho have never done anything during EoDs. Ever. This fact alone makes me want to vote outside of them today. If they are wolves (especially if both are), then the village has been eating itself alive this entire game. The gamestate doesn't seem to support that. Mac has been supporting pushes on villagers, so they had at least one powerwolf. Would they rely on Mac to do everything for them?

Sure, I understand it.

I also understand that Mac handled Enrique exactly the way he would handle a partner that wasn't participating, and that you are making some very sketchy clears as if they are locks, which is Mac powerwolfing 101.

To wrap that up in "Mac and Tim co-powerwolfing" is the icing on the cake, because "co-powerwolfing" isn't something that I think anyone does. If you are going to use two powerwolves the second one looks a whole lot more like you than it looks like me, because the second one takes up the mantle when the first goes down. The person "working with the wolf" is always just a wrong townie, either pocketed or coattailed by the powerwolf, not a second power wolf.

@Scotty

That's my take on Mac's ISO, take it or leave it. I told you the reason I was going to push Mac was his handling of me, and there it is. I've been solidly wrong and y'all need to kill me for it I guess, but your reasoning on "Tim and Mac working together and just chopping townies right in our faces" is flawed. If Mac and I were on a team we would be distancing and taking different paths, not putting both those eggs in the same basket.

The most likely Mac partner I could find was Enrique. For Mac to throw an occasional "yeah if that flips wolf I am distanced" barb and never make any real push towards an obvious LHF is suss as hell. A power wolf is always considering "what if my target claims at the last minute and I have to lead a flash wagon somewhere?" Otherwise the flash wagon winds up on a packmate. To just leave Enrique laying around without setting them up for that contingency...Enrique was pack.

Vulgard came in, made a big "hard worker" splash without really doing much but toss off reads with a thin cover of "reasoning" and providing a new POE to contain the chops away from the rest of the pack...just took up where Mac left off.

So that's my legacy...if the wolves manage to kill me here. But here's a warning to the wolves. You got that artifact that Mac called me stupid for wanting to keep out of your hands, but it is not the only source of vote fuckery in the world of Elder Scrolls. If you really want to run me up you shouldn't have waited so long and let me accumulate so much money. I can kill whoever you put up as a counterwagon, so you better make sure you get a second town up there, because if I show up as obviously wolf pushed counterwagon to a dead wolf you are NEVER gonna be rid of me.

[DaisyCloud]

[VOTE: LongCon] aubergine

[DaisyCloud]

idk what I'm doing

[Timsup2nothin]

Checked Falcon's ISO again and I'm content with leaving my vote there. Even though the wagon composition is... well, it could be better... I'm not coming around to the idea of him being town. He spent most of day 1 pushing LHF, day 2 kicked off with him trying to sell DaisyCloud V, and he's been going UTR.

This is good. A Falcon wolf flip can clear us both and give us a base to work from.

If Falcon flips town we're probably just screwed.

[Made]

Wuzzpoppin my slimes. I should be here till EOD. Rip Mac gg. Gonna read in reverse, at me if you want to call me back to the present

Np: call me maybe CRJ

[Scotty]

@Timsup2nothin ”The person "working with the wolf" is always just a wrong townie, either pocketed or coattailed by the powerwolf, not a second power wolf.”

Could it be possible that you, knowing the meta of ‘the right way to appear town’ are using this to your advantage?

[Scotty]

[VOTE: LongCon] aubergine

Proud of you for voting early

[Sloonei]

Neither host will be available at the time of tonight's deadline. Expect some lateness. We apologize. I will try to sneak away from work to get a flavorless announcement up as soon as possible, but I can make no guarantees.

[Scotty]

I can kill whoever you put up as a counterwagon, so you better make sure you get a second town up there, because if I show up as obviously wolf pushed counterwagon to a dead wolf you are NEVER gonna be rid of me.

[Master Radishes]

Sloonei just tell me everyone's role and I'll do it for you kay?

[Scotty]

[VOTE: Tim] aubergine

[Master Radishes]

Let's just yeet Tim today please.

[Master Radishes]

Based on EoD1 alone I see a world where Mac and Tim are powerwolfing the game. They talk to each other a lot about their takes but they don't seem eager to move to a wolf. The wagon options they discuss are all on flipped or likely villagers.

Yeah, team powerwolfing with Mac is not really something I would expect to end well. When I powerwolf I like to call the shots and have a pack that will back me, and that would not be Mac. No reason for you to just believe this, but if I were on a team with a powerwolfing Mac my job would be to just go deep.

Nah. Tim doesn't really believe this.

[Master Radishes]

The most likely Mac partner I could find was Enrique. For Mac to throw an occasional "yeah if that flips wolf I am distanced" barb and never make any real push towards an obvious LHF is suss as hell. A power wolf is always considering "what if my target claims at the last minute and I have to lead a flash wagon somewhere?" Otherwise the flash wagon winds up on a packmate. To just leave Enrique laying around without setting them up for that contingency...Enrique was pack.

Vulgard came in, made a big "hard worker" splash without really doing much but toss off reads with a thin cover of "reasoning" and providing a new POE to contain the chops away from the rest of the pack...just took up where Mac left off.

Nah. This is a deliberate omgus-like attempt to disrupt the thread and cast shade on Vulgard, who has become basically the towniest player in the game now.

So that's my legacy...if the wolves manage to kill me here. But here's a warning to the wolves. You got that artifact that Mac called me stupid for wanting to keep out of your hands, but it is not the only source of vote fuckery in the world of Elder Scrolls. If you really want to run me up you shouldn't have waited so long and let me accumulate so much money. I can kill whoever you put up as a counterwagon, so you better make sure you get a second town up there, because if I show up as obviously wolf pushed counterwagon to a dead wolf you are NEVER gonna be rid of me.

Nah. v!Tim doesn't talk to the wolf pack like this.

[DaisyCloud]

o don't understand what tim is saying?

it better be another town?

someone help me. my brain can't translate

[Master Radishes]

Disclaimer: Tim is known to deliberately post crap as either alignment and I've mis-read him before.


But the last few games I've played with v!Tim I found him before most others did, even one game where he deliberately went off his nut. I don't see that Tim here.

[Kylemii]

@Vulgard
Still waiting for that post of Daisy you 180’ed on!

if im scum. where and when did I distance from my teammates?

how is your votes supposed to be town?

didn't you say before that you never do that? in the bee game. or double elimiation or whatever it was. when you mentioned you had a trust tell

I never buss. so I'm curious when I supposedly did. this alt daisy that you guys created is just wild

assuming that's true, why then would examples of you bussing a teammate or distancing from them be necessary for someone to suspect you

he keeps saying that my votes been scummy. he keeps saying I'm voting in certain ways to protect my partners.

ok i see. so you're not stating the lack of distancing as defense of yourself but rather presenting it to challenge vulcan's reason for reading you as bad for distancing stuff

i think i worded that wrong sorry i just woke up. it's not an appeal to meta but rather a challenge to actual the reasoning of the read unrelated to your personal meta

[Timsup2nothin]

Disclaimer: Tim is known to deliberately post crap as either alignment and I've mis-read him before.


But the last few games I've played with v!Tim I found him before most others did, even one game where he deliberately went off his nut. I don't see that Tim here.

That's cuz you are a wolf.

[Master Radishes]

I acknowledge you've posted, Tim.

[Made]

@Timsup2nothin what was your last town game we were both in?

[Master Radishes]

TOWN
Vulgard
Made
Jack
TSP

Gavial?
Kyle?
Scotty?


THE REST
Falcon
Tim

Long Con
DaisyCloud
Monkey
Nacho
Marmot



Hmm.

[Timsup2nothin]

o don't understand what tim is saying?

it better be another town?

someone help me. my brain can't translate

Daisy this is shaping up as the wolves trying to push me over Falcon. I'm town. If Falcon is town too we are truly screwed no matter which way it goes, because tomorrow the wolves just push the counterwagon.

I am gonna gamble that Falcon is a wolf, and that Falcon flipping wolf clears me...so I am gonna buy enough vote fuckery that I am pretty much beyond the chop (sorry Falcon). So if Falcon is a wolf the wolves need to be changing their plan right about soon.

You should just vote Falcon, unless you are pretty sure he is town. Or me I guess. Either way, when this all goes down you want to have taken a stand.

[DaisyCloud]

[VOTE: Lost Monkey] aubergineI just read monkey's iso again and I think it looks wolfy.

[Long Con]

I chose Scotty because I got a bad vibe on him from that TSP read.

And hilariously, I feel like the missing info here is that TSP had been off the lynch poll 2 days in a row, as well as today.
3 straight days without being able to be lynched sounds...not town. No matter how you look at it.

Again, I wholly disagree with that statement. I believe the opposite is true.

No, Mac didn't fake a red check on Scotty, I did.

Aha! It was a fake. I like the idea here at least.

I don't really have a Scotty red check. Just thought it would be fun to shake things up a little. Gavial looks pretty towny from his reaction. Or at least 3p I guess, who knows?

Still townread Daisy despite Vulgard's case. Vulgard is looking like town here, but I guess it's one of the easiest ways to look towny - subbing in and taking fresh looks at everything.

Scotty looks pretty good from the reactions, but I already townread him. There was just one post I didn't like today:

mf Tony’s off the poll again.

Someone explain to me how that can be a town role again?

I know TSP is actually on the poll, but... being unyeetable is something that a wolf cannot be. If town is unyeetable, then the wolves still can nightkill them as a recourse. If a wolf is unyeetable, that's a really big issue. How did Scotty the villager get to the logic that he should throw some broad-based shade at TSP for being off the poll? Being off the poll for consecutive days would have surely been a town thing.

TSP is now on the poll, thus making him not unyeetable. Are you reading TSP solely off of that ability.

That was a Scotty read, not a TSP read.

I know you're primarily talking about Scotty, but you're also implying here that you think TSP has a town role if I'm interpreting correctly.

I think TSP is town, but I didn't intend to imply it with the post you quoted. Fair?

Almost, I'll rephrase my initial question. What makes you think TSP is town?

I'd just like to believe in my note, mostly. Could be TSP himself that sent the note though. Sends a note that says everyone at Boethiah is town, then he reveals that he, in fact, went to Boethiah. But the fact that it's Boethiah is a point I'm stuck on. I went to Boethiah, because Tim and Syn were going to Boethiah. It was public knowledge. TSP could have written the note about any Shrine, and then claimed it - going to Boethiah means he wants to help Tim make money, and he'd be townclearing anyone who went there. That would be a silly thing to do, for a wolf, right?

I'm somewhat conflicted about the note, but certain aspects of it lead me to believe it, despite part of my brain calling me a great fool.

[VOTE: LongCon] aubergine

Oof...

Gotta sit down. This one knocked the wind outta me.

[Timsup2nothin]

@Timsup2nothin what was your last town game we were both in?

Beats me. Other than this I have been on a tear of wolf rands.

I was town in GoC with you.

[Master Radishes]

[VOTE: Lost Monkey] aubergineI just read monkey's iso again and I think it looks wolfy.

There is no way we're going to end today on a slanky slot like Monkey, even if you might be right.

[DaisyCloud]

@Vulgard
Still waiting for that post of Daisy you 180’ed on!

if im scum. where and when did I distance from my teammates?

how is your votes supposed to be town?

didn't you say before that you never do that? in the bee game. or double elimiation or whatever it was. when you mentioned you had a trust tell

I never buss. so I'm curious when I supposedly did. this alt daisy that you guys created is just wild

assuming that's true, why then would examples of you bussing a teammate or distancing from them be necessary for someone to suspect you

he keeps saying that my votes been scummy. he keeps saying I'm voting in certain ways to protect my partners.

ok i see. so you're not stating the lack of distancing as defense of yourself but rather presenting it to challenge vulcan's reason for reading you as bad for distancing stuff

i think i worded that wrong sorry i just woke up. it's not an appeal to meta but rather a challenge to actual the reasoning of the read unrelated to your personal meta

I read this 4x and I still don't know what u r saying.

my votes been bad but that doesn't make me scum. and I'm very curious as to when I distanced myself from. my partners and/or when I voted in a way to protect my partners.

[Long Con]

I'd suggest to Kyle that he use commas, but then he'd use no punctuation at all until I apologize.

[DaisyCloud]

[VOTE: Lost Monkey] aubergineI just read monkey's iso again and I think it looks wolfy.

There is no way we're going to end today on a slanky slot like Monkey, even if you might be right.

it's 1pm. and eods been changing up alot. cfds happened thrn switched.

Don't tell me no one else except for so and do is gonna get lynched

it's stupid talk like this that makes me upset.

ooo, daisy u better vote over here. fudge that noise. we don't know.

and why not monkey? why not u?

maybe people should listen to me and how I vote for a change. instead of manipulating me yo vote elsewheres.

[Made]

Have we already ISO’d Mac and done teammate searches there?

[Vulgard]

I was curious how Tim would react to me pushing Falcon over him, and I don't like it. He posted from the mindset of "well, I can still get Falcon before I die. If Falcon's my partner, I'm bussing here and maybe this'll give me townpoints. If Falcon's V, at least I get one more villager before I go down." The way he reacted to my thinking looks like he's scrambling to find wolfy things in my posts when there aren't any.

Swapping to Tim, we're killing him today. The mindset of "if Falcon flips town, we're just screwed" isn't villagery. It's the mindset of someone who wants to get another misyeet. Where's the analysis of other slots? If Tim's doubting that Falcon's a wolf (and him debating V!Falcon suggests that), why not look elsewhere? He suggests I'm a wolf, but he doesn't push me. In fact, he's voting with me on Falcon. He seems to believe I'm town and mafia at the same time, since I'm in Enrique's slot. He votes on the same wagon as me and wants to vote out the same player as me, but isn't voting me...

This mindset is inconsistent with what he says. Tim is mafia.

[DaisyCloud]

Have we already ISO’d Mac and done teammate searches there?

no one has idoed mac. we just been waiting for u to do it. we dare not do anything until you tell us what to do

[Vulgard]

Also, I didn't forget about Tim's post where he calls Jack the SK. I'm considering it. I'm not going to SK hunt when we still have wolves to kill, but it's a thing. Don't forget he made that post, especially if he does flip wolf.

[lost monkey]

Damn totally forgot about this game, I will go catch up now.

[Vulgard]

TOWN
Vulgard
Made
Jack
TSP

Gavial?
Kyle?
Scotty?


THE REST
Falcon
Tim

Long Con
DaisyCloud
Monkey
Nacho
Marmot



Hmm.

I feel honored you put me over a dead villager's greencheck.

Talk to me about Jack, Daisy and Marmot. I currently think none of the three are pack wolves, but my mind might change. I've fluctuated on all three a bit.

[DaisyCloud]

if we mislynch again today then town is screwed.

people better be super sure about who we do end up voting out.

and honestly any cfds is probably gonna be bad. and anyone thinking oh. it this time the cfd might work is missing a few screws in the head.

and anyone who thinks that votes are most nkt gonna switch around in next several hours hasn't been paying attention to eods

[Made]

Have we already ISO’d Mac and done teammate searches there?

no one has idoed mac. we just been waiting for u to do it. we dare not do anything until you tell us what to do

Oh man. I’m on the case!!!!



Scum be warned, your ass is grass

[Timsup2nothin]

I can kill whoever you put up as a counterwagon, so you better make sure you get a second town up there, because if I show up as obviously wolf pushed counterwagon to a dead wolf you are NEVER gonna be rid of me.

Why eek?

I hate having to piss my money away on this, but so long as I kill a wolf I figure it is the best I can do...and as they say, you can't take it with you. So Bug Musk for the win, and hope Falcon is a wolf. If he isn't then tomorrow you guys turbo me, and that's pretty much game over. Not much I can do about that.

On the other hand, if Falcon flips wolf then you have the light Timfoil of "well, maybe it was w/w" but at the very least you have a solid clear on Vulguard and when you Timfoil me to death at least he only has three wolves to find...and maybe the 3P kills another one for us since at least they seem to have a clue.

[DaisyCloud]

Have we already ISO’d Mac and done teammate searches there?

no one has idoed mac. we just been waiting for u to do it. we dare not do anything until you tell us what to do

Oh man. I’m on the case!!!!



Scum be warned, your ass is grass

yay!

ping me when you find them.

[DaisyCloud]

my hand really hurts. I'll be back later.

[Long Con]

Also, I didn't forget about Tim's post where he calls Jack the SK. I'm considering it. I'm not going to SK hunt when we still have wolves to kill, but it's a thing. Don't forget he made that post, especially if he does flip wolf.

Why?