The Elder Scrolls [GAME OVER]

[Timsup2nothin]

Was Made razor stab and nacho a regular mafia kill?

No because it says the artifact was destroyed. If Made had been razored the mafia would have gotten it.

[Timsup2nothin]

Night four is when whoever went to the vig shrine N1 and shot Nanook got to go back again, so I am assuming they shot Nacho.

[Marmot]

That makes sense I guess.

Also, Sloonei is smart and orders nightkills in alphabetical order so we can't read into the ordering.

[Marmot]

Are you sure it's not a vig/Shrine ability? We've had two kills every night except night 2 right? Oh and three on Night 3 because BK was razored.

[Timsup2nothin]

That makes sense I guess.

Also, Sloonei is smart and orders nightkills in alphabetical order so we can't read into the ordering.

Yeah...but Made the greenchecked is the obvious NK here.

Gavails on again off again SK, near as I can tell, has killed exactly once in four nights, so not exactly a psychopath.

[Timsup2nothin]

Are you sure it's not a vig/Shrine ability? We've had two kills every night except night 2 right? Oh and three on Night 3 because BK was razored.

I think the second kills on N1 and N4 are someone who has a vig shrine and can go every third night.

That's separate from the N3 kill on Mac...I don't really understand that one unless it is something like my lasertower vig from GoC...took three nights to charge up.

[Marmot]

Voters for falcon: Daisy, jack, marmot, Kyle, TSP, nacho

Marmot is the only one that looks remotely scum on that because he was just saving himself.

BUT even saving himself makes me wonder if he would do that if he were bad. It would tell me his role is more powerful, or he’s just selfish. Because losing the razor is shit for mafia, I feel. Wouldn’t you just take the fall? I don’t know.

That could just be a bus in a lost cause world. Staying off on me wouldn't save Falcon anyway, and would just be outing.

I guess so.

Fuckin...I don’t wanna do a marmot almost lynch 4 days in a row

If you're gonna ring me up just do it follow through on it please.

[Marmot]

Are you sure it's not a vig/Shrine ability? We've had two kills every night except night 2 right? Oh and three on Night 3 because BK was razored.

I think the second kills on N1 and N4 are someone who has a vig shrine and can go every third night.

That's separate from the N3 kill on Mac...I don't really understand that one unless it is something like my lasertower vig from GoC...took three nights to charge up.

Not every vig shoots immediately when they can, some like to wait for a more confident shot.

[Timsup2nothin]

Are you sure it's not a vig/Shrine ability? We've had two kills every night except night 2 right? Oh and three on Night 3 because BK was razored.

I think the second kills on N1 and N4 are someone who has a vig shrine and can go every third night.

That's separate from the N3 kill on Mac...I don't really understand that one unless it is something like my lasertower vig from GoC...took three nights to charge up.

Not every vig shoots immediately when they can, some like to wait for a more confident shot.

True...maybe a 2x...or 1x vig?

That doesn't seem to fit the flavor though. I think it was maybe the 3P Mace of Molag Ball person and they for some reason wanted to help the hapless town so they killed Mac.

I have avoided temptation on all the lesser things I can buy and long about N7 I might get a vig shot if I manage to survive. Or never if I get results like last night.

[Marmot]

Anyone do anything cool last night? I’m beginning to think that my temples are pretty awful and useless

I tried to get people to visit Mehrunes Dagon shrine to buy snowglobes but it didn't work...I need three sales to be able to take out a writ with the Morag Tong but it is looking out of reach.

Sorry, I can't access that one.

[Marmot]

Is Mehrune's not just a scum shrine?

[Timsup2nothin]

Is Mehrune's not just a scum shrine?

They are all the same to me...I can go to any of them, but none of them do anything...my result is strictly based on how many people go...I just figured the Daedric Prince of Destruction seemed like a likely place to get a vig shot.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Was Made razor stab and nacho a regular mafia kill?

Nah, artificat was destoryed

[TonyStarkPrime]

but I took an arrow to the knee

[Timsup2nothin]

but I took an arrow to the knee

There is a lesson here...going to the chaos shrine is nothing but a test of how creatively annoying Sloonei can be. Do not do this.

[Vulgard]

@Daisy

I'm trying to determine the proportion of defensiveness/solving in your posts as town. Judging by the one I checked, you seem a little solvier and less defensive as town there. That said, the context could be different. Maybe you were pressured less in that game than you have been in this game. The proportion of questions in your ISO seems similar regardless of alignment.

It looks like you make more frequent reads as town, but the number of games I checked is too low to be sure.

Town - these people I accept as town and I am not going to kill them today outside of a redcheck from a townie person.

Master Radishes
Scotty
Jackofhearts2005
TonyStarkPrime

Townlean - these people I think are town, but I am starting to doubt myself a little. Primary targets for re-evaluation.

DaisyCloud
Kylemii

lost monkey
Marmot

Straight PoE - these are the least villagery players in the game right now, fmpov. Would prefer killing there.

Gavial

Long Con
Timsup2nothin

Do you see the problem? The PoE is too small for 4 people. At least one of my townleans is wrong. Lost monkey had that one post about Mac I don't see them making about a partner, so possible 3p. Marmot, I'm not sure. Kylemii and DaisyCloud I have the most reasons to townread on an independent level, but... They are not in the same zone as the top 4 players. The top 4 players either have non-partnered interactions, or they have pushed wolves. Or both.

About me misreading the setup - I subbed in and never read the OP, only skimmed. Cut me some slack for not understanding the setup you've played for 3 more days than me.

Still catching up.

[Vulgard]

Oh, about Gavial's action. I jailkept him last night. Partly because I expected him to get killed at night if he's town, given his role. Partly because I wanted to verify if he had KP. If he were groupscum, he seemed like a decent factional kill performer. If he were 3p SK, I would've reduced KP.

Since none of that happened, mechanics point to Gavial being town unless he's a 3p with no KP.

[Vulgard]

If people are scumreading me because I didn't pay attention to the OP, I'm disappointed. I expected better. What, can town not ignore the OP or not pay attention, especially if they subbed in? Don't be ridiculous.

My PoE is similar to Radishes' PoE. The problem is that it's too small. Which is why I'm looking at people I'm not 100% sold on being town.

The scumreads on me feel like wolves scrambling because the reasoning is so terrible. "Vulgard didn't realize how many nontown there are, must be mafia."

[Vulgard]

Looking at DaisyCloud/lost monkey/Marmot/Kylemii for 2/4 remaining nontown.

I can't see a world where Tim/LC aren't both mafia. I have good reasons to clear the top 4 people on my list. You'd have to sell me on people in the four I've listed, but both Tim and LC are pushing insane worlds.

[Timsup2nothin]

If people are scumreading me because I didn't pay attention to the OP, I'm disappointed. I expected better. What, can town not ignore the OP or not pay attention, especially if they subbed in? Don't be ridiculous.

My PoE is similar to Radishes' PoE. The problem is that it's too small. Which is why I'm looking at people I'm not 100% sold on being town.

The scumreads on me feel like wolves scrambling because the reasoning is so terrible. "Vulgard didn't realize how many nontown there are, must be mafia."

It's not about you skipping the OP, or missing something in it. It's about the number of people who matter of factly stated at various points that there were five wolves according to the setup. You ISOed those people and never noticed? In more than a couple cases there was back and forth "how many wolves you think?" "five wolves" "you seem really sure <suss>" "well it's in the OP so..." "oh" type exchanges.

It could be that you are the hero the town really needed to step into the idle slot and you have worked your ass off, did all these ISOs while missing those conversations, and blasted out a bunch of 'solid' reads even if they are kinda "feelies" more than facts.

But it also could be that you are the power wolf the wolves needed to step in for dead Mac. That would explain how you did all the ISOs missing certain key points but coming up with very Mac like "feelie" reads...you could get them in wolf chat and they could conveniently fit the agenda rather than the reality.

Like, Master Radishes is not the least bit townish, but he's at the top of your list. Why is that? Daisy you have swung wildly around on, mostly without any reason beyond "need to widen the POE here." You've taken up dead Mac's torch of "Tim is pushing insane reads" when mine have been actually as good or better than yours.

All in all you could be either way here and have done nothing AI...but now you drop in the "oh BTW I'm the Jailkeeper that blocked Gavial who was going to provide a track." Now that is alignment indicative. Gavial, for all his daffy reads, is at least probably town, and with his tracker/watcher claim is a prime target for killing or blocking by wolves.

You have all these "suspects" in your POE, wtf would you JK the claimed tracker for as town? It wasn't protective...the wolves needed to kill Made. It wasn't to clear him. Maybe a tracker result would have, but you kept him from that. Might have cleared someone else too. And yeah since we are down in the short strokes that would be very bad...for the wolves.

So here's the deal @Master Radishes @Scotty @Jackofhearts2005

I set out this game to play nice. Work with the townies. Do my part. I put up with Mac gaslighting how I was bad my reads were bad my concern about letting the wolves get Bo's artifact was bad blah blah fucking blah. And you lot have blundered right along with the wolf. Jack with his "oh well sure maybe you did something towny but that could just be wifom" mindless fucking tunneling. Radishes with "gosh, serious, must be wolfing." Scotty with "gosh talks about his worthless "power of merchant" like he doesn't care if he dies. I don't have to worry about getting NKed because you towns with your halfbaked Timfoil are like a constant promise to just mischop me and not even need any help from the wolves.

Now here is a guy who has done something blatantly fucking wolfy. And not a fucking doubt in my mind you lot are gonna say "but gosh, feels towny, and y'know townies do wolfy things sometimes" and blithely continue chopping people who do towny things because of your daft fucking feelie reads and giving passes to people who do wolfy things because of your daft fucking feelie reads. At least Scotty has at least one excuse, he's out of practice. Everybody else needs to just get gud here. Or fucking lose. I honestly am beyond caring at this point.

By the way, I have used my role like a fucking master....Jack, by fucking lying my ass off, and here's the key to a good lie...keep it close to the truth. I am exactly the Imperial merchant. If somebody checked my race with your shriney powers you'd not be able to dispute it. I have never lied about what shrine I was at, so again no one can dispute it. I do collect money, and everything I have said about what I can do with it before today was made up whole fucking cloth but could never be checked...it was whatever I needed to keep the wolves off my back and my fellow townies who are apparently dumb as a box of hammers from killing me.

Because outing the one thing I could actually buy makes me a target...so I kept it hidden until today. Now you clowns have convinced me (along with my complete inability to guess what shrine you lot are gonna go to, and that's my bad) that I will never get enough to buy a second writ...but here's a news flash...the Morag Tong killed Mac because I FUCKING PAID THEM TO. I am the "charging up" vig. I'm the only towny that has done fucking thing one right until we blundered onto Falcon yesterday despite you baboons wanting to kill me instead. Piss on the lot of ye. Gavial's reads are fucking better.

[Timsup2nothin]

Looking at DaisyCloud/lost monkey/Marmot/Kylemii for 2/4 remaining nontown.

I can't see a world where Tim/LC aren't both mafia. I have good reasons to clear the top 4 people on my list. You'd have to sell me on people in the four I've listed, but both Tim and LC are pushing insane worlds.

Shove your "pushing insane worlds" sideways.

[Timsup2nothin]

[VOTE: Vulgard] aubergine

Get gud you lame townies. I haven't got a solve and I'm certainly dying soon now, but at least I killed a wolf...and yes I also claim a significant chunk of the Falcon pelt and just because you can't follow it doesn't mean it doesn't count...and I'm gonna hand you another one here.

[Vulgard]

Give me a reason why I would hardclaim blocking the tracker/watcher claim as mafia. So you can push me based on it, like you're doing right now?

[Vulgard]

I've already explained my thought process behind blocking Gavial. I'm surprised he's still alive. He may be Gavial, but he hardclaimed early day 2 and still hasn't died. I understand the logic behind killing greenchecks, but his role is dangerous. It has the potential to out wolves or clear townies every night.

The fact it hasn't is suspicious, like someone brought up before me. I jailkept him to verify if he has been killing people behind our backs.

The fact you're looking at it at such a surface level is wolfy. You're reducing my actions to the bare minimum.

"Didn't read the OP and see the number of wolves, must be mafia." Am I not MORE likely to know the number of wolves if I'm a wolf myself? I know how many partners I have, they sit in my wolfchat. This is the dumbest possible thing to suspect me over. Have you never seen villagers make mistakes about the number of wolves before? I doubt you haven't.

"Jailkept a tracker/watcher claim, must be mafia."

The tracker/watcher claim that's survived this long since an early day 2 claim. Sure, it's Gavial, but it's also a tracker/watcher. Really dangerous to the wolves. Maybe there's a wolf roleblocker that keeps blocking him; that's the only world I can see. But then again, this game won't let you use the same ability many times in a row. You can't visit the same shrine all the time, so I found that world unlikely.

In essence, I thought Gavial could be a hidden non-town KP owner, whether mafia or 3p. And if he wasn't, it was possible I'd protect him from getting nightkilled. Because, like you said, his role can give us clears if he's town. It hasn't, at least so far, but it could.

Me hardclaiming the jailkeep as mafia carries a certain risk. It looks wolfy on the surface, and people could push me for it. "Who would jailkeep someone who gives us clears?" But since I'm town, I have no TMI on Gavial's alignment. I'm not afraid to out it and explain the thought process behind the action.

You're ignoring the nuance behind my actions, and that's wolfy.

[Timsup2nothin]

Give me a reason why I would hardclaim blocking the tracker/watcher claim as mafia. So you can push me based on it, like you're doing right now?

Beats me...ask Jack.

How about you answer my question...as town why in the world would you have done that?

[Vulgard]

Yes, I know I said the same things twice in the post above, but it looks like I must reiterate them.

[Timsup2nothin]

Nice crosspost.

[Timsup2nothin]

Meanwhile, how about you drop the gaslighter Mac impressions. I get fucking tired after a certain amount of "level zero reads, I dismiss you summarily" crap. READ THE ISSUE...it isn't "missed the number of wolves in the OP" it hasn't been in any of the five times I've stated the problem.

The problem is you maybe didn't read the OP, but you read a MOUNTAIN of ISOs that talked about the number of wolves...as stated in the OP. So you missed ALL of those. And yeah, you can see how many wolves there are when you are sitting in wolf chat, but that makes "there are five wolves" TMI so you don't wanna say it like it's a fact. So you throw out your "speculation" just to be sounding solvy and you say it so you don't look like you have TMI...but yeah that was something you just should know. Not from wolf chat, and not from the OP, but from those ISOs you keep telling us about...if you had actually done them.

And when confronted with this you just keep making this broken record bullshit response about "well townies don't always read the OP." You need to add "or the basis of the case being levied at them, because this is the sixth time I've spelled it out and apparently you aren't reading it any more than you read the OP.

[Timsup2nothin]

PS: Jailkeep on Gavial was a bonehead play if you are town.

[Vulgard]

I don't recall ever denying that I might've missed the number of wolves listed in ISOs. I don't remember reading any posts that talked about the number of wolves, but it's possible they exist.

What I don't understand is how this makes me a wolf. You can't possibly expect me to remember the minutiae of everybody's posting. The game spans over 100 pages and I've only been there for less than half of it.

This feels like an argument constructed to attack my weakest point. Not something founded on a genuine suspicion.

Re: my Gavial jailkeep: I don't care what you think of my jailkeep target. I explained the logic behind it. If you wouldn't do it in my place, then I'm sorry you're not me. Too bad.

[Vulgard]

On another note.

There are four nontown alive.

Where are they, Tim? You've spent most of this day phase attacking me. Where are my teammates, and where's the 3p? Where are the nontown, Tim? Where are they?

You get my point. Your POV is narrow.

And sure, you can try to turn this around and be like "you've pushed me all the time." However, I've been clear about where I want to kill for a while now. It doesn't matter to me whether we kill you or LC today, for instance. The only reason I had preference for you over Falcon yesterday was that I thought you were a bigger fish to fry. I had no TMI on Falcon being the wolf PR.

And yet another note. This isn't directed at Tim anymore.

Every time Tim has acknowledged that something I've done was towny, it felt backhanded. He doesn't want to acknowledge it. He can't rid himself of misyeet options in this situation. When I pointed out that Radishes had solid interactions about the wolf PR, he no longer talked about MR. Now, he's fully turned himself on me.

I am keeping in mind the possibility of him being town, but his play here isn't towny at all. Not to me, anyway. Does anyone else see this? I hope other villagers see this.

[Timsup2nothin]

What I don't understand is how this makes me a wolf.

I just explained that. Wolf knows there are five wolves. Wolf goes to make a post about the number of wolves to be posting. Wolf says "uh oh, if I just say "there's five wolves" that's TMI so I better hedge it up." But the wolf missed that EVERYONE knows there are five wolves so it wouldn't have been TMI at all. It's been discussed ad nauseum already multiple times in the thread.

[Timsup2nothin]

Where are they, Tim? You've spent most of this day phase attacking me. Where are my teammates, and where's the 3p? Where are the nontown, Tim? Where are they?

This is the same horseshit I got from tunneler Jack. "Oh I can't see a team without Tim"...so I suggest a team. No one on that team can Jack clear beyond "well gosh, seems towny. Long Con suggests a team, and Jack can't clear a single one of them either...that makes a team OF SIX. But tunnelin' Jack ain't gonna look, and neither are you. Don't wanna find out your feelie reads are wrong, or you are just a wolf. Either or.

[Timsup2nothin]

It doesn't matter to me whether we kill you or LC today, for instance.

I'm sure it doesn't, since he is the only one who has actually done something obviously towny besides me.

[DaisyCloud]

where i come from jailer is like a doc/healer with extra steps, because they rb and the person they jailed is protected from nks, except strongman ones.

if I was Vulgard I can see jailing Gavial. but Made was still alive i would have jailed him so he wouldn't get killed. or since Vulgard sussed out tim I would have jailed tim.

I haven't isoed Vulgard before making this post but from my foggy memory I don't think Vulgard sussed Gavial enough before nite happened to suss him.

I have reasons to think that Marmot is lying about getting a prize last night. far as I know... however it could be possible.

I have reasons to think scotty isn't Balog's champion. what else he is or isn't idk.

and I got reasons to think Gavial was rbed nite 3.


as for tim claiming. well I felt like that was not necessary.

and far as I recall even though I never got my soul read on tim, I still considered him town. and even tho he was one of the main wagons going on I wasn't gonna let him get lynched.

having said that a vig claim is just a easy claim for mafia or sk.

but like tim has a point about Vulgard.

I don't like tim yelling at us and being so disappointed in us. I mean we did get 2 wolves finally. but I get him being legitimately frustrated.

I don't think Vulgard was at a point that he needed to claim either.

I still don't get why everyone thinks Gavial is town either. if he really is tracker/watcher why is he alive? and how come no one questions what he has been doing every nite?

[DaisyCloud]

and it is convenient to say he jailed Gavial since Gavial already said he got no results from last nite. did Gavial say he was blocked past nite?

[Scotty]

Oh, about Gavial's action. I jailkept him last night. Partly because I expected him to get killed at night if he's town, given his role. Partly because I wanted to verify if he had KP. If he were groupscum, he seemed like a decent factional kill performer. If he were 3p SK, I would've reduced KP.

Since none of that happened, mechanics point to Gavial being town unless he's a 3p with no KP.

Expected...Gavail to be killed? The mayor of jesterville who wolves would love to take to endgame?

Uh...that’s wishful thinking there Vulgard.

[Scotty]

I went to chaos last night and got a prize, and it was not am arrow to the knee.

Is it a prize you’d like to share with the class? Bag of kit-kats perhaps?

[Scotty]

So assuming my gavial isn’t angling to be lynched today (which is frankly hard to believe, but thanks for showing that there are no jesters, Daisy) what on earth is he spewing?

Jack? First of all, he put the 5th vote on falcon towards eod, which just about sealed falcon’s fate. Daisy then finished the job, if I recall. Maybe the order is messed up, but those votes don’t read teammate bus to me.

But hell, mafia’s gotten faster and has changed a bit perhaps since I last remember and maybe bussing is something you scum teams do often.
In that case, TSP is my deep wolf for mafia cred. I don’t like to think that because if he’s mafia he’s never getting lynched. That’s the breaks. I choose not to believe that.

And it makes no sense for jack or Daisy to vote that way unless falcon was like “roast me fam” in scumchat.


And another thing:
Gavial jumping on that one post I quoted from Vulgard and using that as a maxim to encompass his entire read of Vulgard? Baffles me. It’s like hearing a dude sniffle in a traincar and you wanting to move cars because you’re convinced the man has viral, transmissible cancer.

Convince me you don’t want to be lynched today.
Explain your reads. Don’t just put your hands up and babble names

I don’t want to be lynched today because I’m town.
I also still have a watcher shot.
Not sure how it baffles you when I had the right to be concerned of Vulgard.

You have the right to think how you’re gonna think, but it seemed like it came out of nowhere

[Scotty]

If people are scumreading me because I didn't pay attention to the OP, I'm disappointed. I expected better. What, can town not ignore the OP or not pay attention, especially if they subbed in? Don't be ridiculous.

My PoE is similar to Radishes' PoE. The problem is that it's too small. Which is why I'm looking at people I'm not 100% sold on being town.

The scumreads on me feel like wolves scrambling because the reasoning is so terrible. "Vulgard didn't realize how many nontown there are, must be mafia."

It's not about you skipping the OP, or missing something in it. It's about the number of people who matter of factly stated at various points that there were five wolves according to the setup. You ISOed those people and never noticed? In more than a couple cases there was back and forth "how many wolves you think?" "five wolves" "you seem really sure <suss>" "well it's in the OP so..." "oh" type exchanges.

It could be that you are the hero the town really needed to step into the idle slot and you have worked your ass off, did all these ISOs while missing those conversations, and blasted out a bunch of 'solid' reads even if they are kinda "feelies" more than facts.

But it also could be that you are the power wolf the wolves needed to step in for dead Mac. That would explain how you did all the ISOs missing certain key points but coming up with very Mac like "feelie" reads...you could get them in wolf chat and they could conveniently fit the agenda rather than the reality.

Like, Master Radishes is not the least bit townish, but he's at the top of your list. Why is that? Daisy you have swung wildly around on, mostly without any reason beyond "need to widen the POE here." You've taken up dead Mac's torch of "Tim is pushing insane reads" when mine have been actually as good or better than yours.

All in all you could be either way here and have done nothing AI...but now you drop in the "oh BTW I'm the Jailkeeper that blocked Gavial who was going to provide a track." Now that is alignment indicative. Gavial, for all his daffy reads, is at least probably town, and with his tracker/watcher claim is a prime target for killing or blocking by wolves.

You have all these "suspects" in your POE, wtf would you JK the claimed tracker for as town? It wasn't protective...the wolves needed to kill Made. It wasn't to clear him. Maybe a tracker result would have, but you kept him from that. Might have cleared someone else too. And yeah since we are down in the short strokes that would be very bad...for the wolves.

So here's the deal @Master Radishes @Scotty @Jackofhearts2005

I set out this game to play nice. Work with the townies. Do my part. I put up with Mac gaslighting how I was bad my reads were bad my concern about letting the wolves get Bo's artifact was bad blah blah fucking blah. And you lot have blundered right along with the wolf. Jack with his "oh well sure maybe you did something towny but that could just be wifom" mindless fucking tunneling. Radishes with "gosh, serious, must be wolfing." Scotty with "gosh talks about his worthless "power of merchant" like he doesn't care if he dies. I don't have to worry about getting NKed because you towns with your halfbaked Timfoil are like a constant promise to just mischop me and not even need any help from the wolves.

Now here is a guy who has done something blatantly fucking wolfy. And not a fucking doubt in my mind you lot are gonna say "but gosh, feels towny, and y'know townies do wolfy things sometimes" and blithely continue chopping people who do towny things because of your daft fucking feelie reads and giving passes to people who do wolfy things because of your daft fucking feelie reads. At least Scotty has at least one excuse, he's out of practice. Everybody else needs to just get gud here. Or fucking lose. I honestly am beyond caring at this point.

By the way, I have used my role like a fucking master....Jack, by fucking lying my ass off, and here's the key to a good lie...keep it close to the truth. I am exactly the Imperial merchant. If somebody checked my race with your shriney powers you'd not be able to dispute it. I have never lied about what shrine I was at, so again no one can dispute it. I do collect money, and everything I have said about what I can do with it before today was made up whole fucking cloth but could never be checked...it was whatever I needed to keep the wolves off my back and my fellow townies who are apparently dumb as a box of hammers from killing me.

Because outing the one thing I could actually buy makes me a target...so I kept it hidden until today. Now you clowns have convinced me (along with my complete inability to guess what shrine you lot are gonna go to, and that's my bad) that I will never get enough to buy a second writ...but here's a news flash...the Morag Tong killed Mac because I FUCKING PAID THEM TO. I am the "charging up" vig. I'm the only towny that has done fucking thing one right until we blundered onto Falcon yesterday despite you baboons wanting to kill me instead. Piss on the lot of ye. Gavial's reads are fucking better.

Where has this tim been all my life?

[Scotty]

I've already explained my thought process behind blocking Gavial. I'm surprised he's still alive. He may be Gavial, but he hardclaimed early day 2 and still hasn't died. I understand the logic behind killing greenchecks, but his role is dangerous. It has the potential to out wolves or clear townies every night.

The fact it hasn't is suspicious, like someone brought up before me. I jailkept him to verify if he has been killing people behind our backs.

The fact you're looking at it at such a surface level is wolfy. You're reducing my actions to the bare minimum.

"Didn't read the OP and see the number of wolves, must be mafia." Am I not MORE likely to know the number of wolves if I'm a wolf myself? I know how many partners I have, they sit in my wolfchat. This is the dumbest possible thing to suspect me over. Have you never seen villagers make mistakes about the number of wolves before? I doubt you haven't.

"Jailkept a tracker/watcher claim, must be mafia."

The tracker/watcher claim that's survived this long since an early day 2 claim. Sure, it's Gavial, but it's also a tracker/watcher. Really dangerous to the wolves. Maybe there's a wolf roleblocker that keeps blocking him; that's the only world I can see. But then again, this game won't let you use the same ability many times in a row. You can't visit the same shrine all the time, so I found that world unlikely.

In essence, I thought Gavial could be a hidden non-town KP owner, whether mafia or 3p. And if he wasn't, it was possible I'd protect him from getting nightkilled. Because, like you said, his role can give us clears if he's town. It hasn't, at least so far, but it could.

Me hardclaiming the jailkeep as mafia carries a certain risk. It looks wolfy on the surface, and people could push me for it. "Who would jailkeep someone who gives us clears?" But since I'm town, I have no TMI on Gavial's alignment. I'm not afraid to out it and explain the thought process behind the action.

You're ignoring the nuance behind my actions, and that's wolfy.

You’re giving far too much credence to the tracker. Yes, it can be a beneficial role, but in a game where wolves can seemingly have any town power since it seems mostly random, wolves would want to jailblock Gavail too.

Tim is right- why kill the guy no one trusts over made, who is green checked?

[Scotty]

@Vulgard does Tim claiming to have put a hit out for Mac change anything for you? It feels like you glossed over that fact.

The only way I can see Tim lying here is it is a gambit to get the molag’s champion to out themselves, or he is the champion. But if the latter, are we to assume he also killed N2? That would mean, if what Tim is suggesting about the vig shooter, the mace could have killed N2 and n3, but why not n1 or n4? Being blocked?

If what Tim is saying is true, that narrative could also be true: that 3p was blocked (or else killed the same target as mafia or vig) n1 and n4. It doesn’t look to be an every other day type thing. UNLESS Tim has a power that can utilize the mace on his own as a merc. And Milan ball can only chop on even nights, and was blocked n4.

There’s too many secrets in this game.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I want Tim to be telling the truth rather badly for a number of obvious reasons. It would fit in with several narratives. It would be funny. But especially it would allow me to start working with instead of against Tim.

Also, it’s really easy to verify if he’s telling the truth or not.

Everyone should explicitly CC or not CC Tim. If nobody CCs 3P, Tim is confirmed 3P and we can put all this to bed. If someone CCs, then we yeet Tim and if he flips 3P, we yeet the CCer tomorrow.

The only downside to this is if Tim is a wolf and the real 3P doesn’t CC. I think this is unlikely because with the current gamestate, claiming 3P and being believed probably means you probably coast to victory whereas a real unclaimed 3P is at risk of being nked or yeeted. It’s more the super corner case of a 3P being flat forbidden from claiming in his rolecard. Super corner case. Very unlikely. I’m okay losing in that scenario.

I am town, not 3P.

[DaisyCloud]

I hardclaim town. not 3rd party or mafia

[Jackofhearts2005]

Also, the accusation that Vulgard is wolfy for attempting to fake a derpclear by not knowing how many wolves there are in spite of having done several isos and people saying it a lot is #fair.

I didn’t read the number of wolves in the setup. It was just said in thread a lot.

[Scotty]

I’m having a crisis right now.
My tinfoil bells that I have currently hanging around my neck are going off (they’re converted cowbells don’t judge)
And it’s pulling me in this QAnon conspiracy that jack/Vulgard/Daisy are all bad.

Jack turned it up d3 and put a town hat on. That’s burley based on solving and tone.

Daisy has been mostly tone read as good. I feel like she put on her solvey boots like d4 tbh. Something a little different in her posts, less defensive. Dunno what that means. Could be more conviction? She mentioned in her scum games she’s never and could never vote for a teammate. Which...sounds like a poorly conceived meta to stand by. If falcon were to ask to he bussed in chat, why not just assuage the dying horse? And get towny credit for it?
Same goes for jack, who is the polar opposite of LC in that Tim is his ride or die to kill, where LC will defend Tim to the ends of middle earth.


Keep in mind that this is my current tinfoil.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Also, my read on Tim was good because he isn’t town. I’m super good atg.

[Jackofhearts2005]

The Miz is my spirit animal. Not supremely good at what he’s supposed to be doing but supremely good at what he does.

[Scotty]

I want Tim to be telling the truth rather badly for a number of obvious reasons. It would fit in with several narratives. It would be funny. But especially it would allow me to start working with instead of against Tim.

Also, it’s really easy to verify if he’s telling the truth or not.

Everyone should explicitly CC or not CC Tim. If nobody CCs 3P, Tim is confirmed 3P and we can put all this to bed. If someone CCs, then we yeet Tim and if he flips 3P, we yeet the CCer tomorrow.

The only downside to this is if Tim is a wolf and the real 3P doesn’t CC. I think this is unlikely because with the current gamestate, claiming 3P and being believed probably means you probably coast to victory whereas a real unclaimed 3P is at risk of being nked or yeeted. It’s more the super corner case of a 3P being flat forbidden from claiming in his rolecard. Super corner case. Very unlikely. I’m okay losing in that scenario.

I am town, not 3P.

I think you’re presupposing what the 3P’s wincon is.

What if this is just a ploy to get the 3p to out themselves?

[Long Con]

I am town, not 3p. Vulgard is neither. [VOTE: vulgard] aubergine