Game Over! Monty Python and the Holy Grail

[Mister Rearranger]

I would like to know if jules still hates me (because I am quite vain...)

[Epignosis]

There are a lot of people here, not sure why they aren't talking

Epi~ you say something CAN be gleaned, but don't say what. Willing to share, or watching & waiting?

Gleaned? Fuck gleaning. The harvest just began.

And formatting takes time, all right?

[Mongoose]

There are a lot of people here, not sure why they aren't talking

Epi~ you say something CAN be gleaned, but don't say what. Willing to share, or watching & waiting?

I read it way more as distancing than protecting.

[Made]

Do you have an opinion on HIS opinion of Hedgie? All you said was that he was replying to you.
Blending in, no one was defending hedgie so it makese sense to hide there. I'd also suspect his teammate didn't have an opinion on Hedgie in chat as to not appear buddie with his teammate
What reason do you think he had for voting MR, since you think he had one?
well let's think about it two ways
If he voted to distance: His teammate probably voted MP (one hides very well the other hides in plain sight
If he voted to protect: His teammate is probably Juliet. Make her appear more likeable (this sounds less likely now that i've typed it out, but still possible)
So the overlap between people who voted for MP and those who are nudgie, or Juliet seem like a good place to start looking for teammates.
I could go back and forth on some of it~ distancing, or protecting teammates?
Samezies

Why do you keep saying "teammate" like there is only one?
No reason lol. Yeah, adjusting theories to account for multiple teammates
1.If there's two teammates everything i said is valid
2.if there's an even number of mafia then everything should be valid for at least one teammate of DF
3.If there's an odd number, the nudge nudge vs winky comment is very unlikely to be valid as one team would have more members on it, thus "team DF" would want the team with more of their teammates to win.
Also I have no idea what you are actually saying in the Hedgie part.
Crtizing Hedgie was done so DF would appear more civvie. Therefore those who were openly critizing him are less likely to be his teammate. I mean if you're going to accuse to blend in, you're not going to do with your teammate(s)

ignoring linki, just want to get this out before things get too active

[S~V~S]

There are a lot of people here, not sure why they aren't talking

Epi~ you say something CAN be gleaned, but don't say what. Willing to share, or watching & waiting?

I read it way more as distancing than protecting.

Read what that way? One of Faradays posts? Which one?

Linki, ah thanks Made, I was confuzzled, long day at work

[Made]

*correction, not two teammates, making a team of 3, but two people on Df's team

[Mongoose]

There are a lot of people here, not sure why they aren't talking

Epi~ you say something CAN be gleaned, but don't say what. Willing to share, or watching & waiting?

I read it way more as distancing than protecting.

Read what that way? One of Faradays posts? Which one?

Linki, ah thanks Made, I was confuzzled, long day at work

Yeah, sorry. The one where he abruptly mentioned Hedgie. It didn't seem weird at the time, because others were mentioning her too, but in hindsight, I wonder if someone told him to get in here and make a throwaway comment.

[Epignosis]

First consider:

Like everyone else, the foes in this scenario would not have known that upon their demise at Night, they would be exposed as foes. Some pretense may be thus revealed.

So much to look over. I'm always wary of going after MP so early just because he is often lynched over nothing (although he was justly caught last time). I don't know Enrique or Made at all, so tomorrow I'll go over their stuff and see what jumps out.

A beautiful trifecta. Name three doors. Behind one lies a tiger. Marilyn vos Savant would be proud.

MP was not a teammate. DF doesn't "know Enrique or Made at all" (no mention of Dana even though he's quoting her. No mention of Canucklehead either). That fits the "name two people who are not on your team and one who is" cliche. Then:

So much to look over. I'm always wary of going after MP so early just because he is often lynched over nothing (although he was justly caught last time). I don't know Enrique or Made at all, so tomorrow I'll go over their stuff and see what jumps out.

You.
Fuck.
You've known me for years, asshole

Was DF truly ignorant of who Enrique is?

In the same post, Enrique said this to Made:

I'm starting to come to the realization that responding to all arguements/points that anyone makes towards you is a very easy way to avoid suspision.

Yeah, don't do that, lol. I'm the kind that does this and gets uber defensive. There's definitely better ways to stand your ground. Not sure if anyone here remembers the mega-post I made that one time in Piano? For Recruitment Mafia, I think. I quoted posts from like every single page in the game. People had to spend whole minutes scrolling down to the end. It was half glorious half terrible. I got lynched.

Read that two, three times over and decide for yourself if it means anything.

linki - Dana - We are an accepting bunch - don't be intimidated

Everyone here has been so nice! It's just intimidating because many people have masters and grad school and PhD super-smarts. It's a bit scary in a game like mafia where a whole lot of it or probably most of it is mind games and thinking things through.

My Master's degree does nothing to help my Mafia game. Also, I don't think I've met you before this, so hi!

So much to look over. I'm always wary of going after MP so early just because he is often lynched over nothing (although he was justly caught last time). I don't know Enrique or Made at all, so tomorrow I'll go over their stuff and see what jumps out.

OMG Where have you been? It's freakin awesome to see you. (I agree; I feel like a dumba$$ most of the time.)

Rey -- Haha, you've got this number!

Mongoose! I was on break; I was helping out with a retreat over the summer, then training for a job. Hopefully I'll be around a bit more now.

And hi Made! It is a pleasure to make your acquaintance!

This exchange smells. Sure, Mongoose is a cheerful sort, but The Hobbit ended less than two months ago. Both of them played. "OMG Where have you been?" when the person you're speaking to only missed one full game and a couple of speed games just doesn't ring true.

And DF is greeting Made.

As someone who also takes awhile to get going in games, I can't be too harsh towards JC. I don't really have strong opinions yet either, and she seems genuine enough to me. I also don't know what to make of the Made/Llama thing, so I'll just...

*vote MR* because why not.

Enrique...sorry! I guess our actual interaction in games has been very limited.

Did you go by a different name, Enrique? I feel bad now.

Also, I forgot to mention above, Hedge is looking pretty shady now.

Why drop JC's name as she's taking votes and vouching for her?

Notice that he mentions Made a third(!) time. This is important because remember he said, "so tomorrow I'll go over their stuff and see what jumps out." He didn't go over anybody's stuff, but he still reminds us that he isn't sure about the "Made/Llama thing." At the time DF voted, Made could have been lynched.

DF votes for MR for no reason and had not mentioned him previously (note that Juliets also voted for MR for what in my opinion was a lame reason- Juliets was my #2 suspect by the end of Day 1).

"Also I forgot to mention above, Hedge is looking pretty shady now." That's random and tacked on as hell.

++++

I encourage people to look at all the names DF dropped, understanding that he most likely would NOT know that, were he killed, his alignment would be revealed.

My vote will go to one of those people.

[Marmot]

Pretty colors on dark backgrounds!

OK, this is the totality of Faradays posts. The NP said "baddie" not SK or rogue, so I am going to assume he had teammates. Can ANYTHING be gleaned from this?

Yay game! I will vote for wink wink, just because.

Teammate is probably on Nudge nudge ( insight to what the other team is doing/what's going on in the other chat)

As someone who also takes awhile to get going in games, I can't be too harsh towards JC. I don't really have strong opinions yet either, and she seems genuine enough to me. I also don't know what to make of the Made/Llama thing, so I'll just...

*vote MR* because why not.

The JC(that's Juliet right?) comment is intresting, but to defend a teammate like this seems like a really bad move? As a counterarguement, was anyone else defending her? Maybe he felt he needed to speak up for the sake of her longevity. Also, Probably voted MR for a reason.

Also, I forgot to mention above, Hedge is looking pretty shady now.

Both this post and the previous are replies to what i said on my read list, they were also posted aroudn the same time. Not sure if this is relevant to anything, but felt it should be pointed out.

That's all i got yo
Thoughts?

I'm going to look at points 1 & 2 from this. These honestly both fit you (and llama) quite well. Both of you are nudgers, and DFaraday definitely distanced himself from the Made/llama case with that post.

[S~V~S]

I will say I do remember that post of Enriques~ I thought it was glorious.

And that is an excellent point~ the baddies would have had no idea about NKs being revealed. It;a a long weekend, I have a baby shower, but will have time to do some reading.

[Made]

First consider:

Like everyone else, the foes in this scenario would not have known that upon their demise at Night, they would be exposed as foes. Some pretense may be thus revealed.
...
I encourage people to look at all the names DF dropped, understanding that he most likely would NOT know that, were he killed, his alignment would be revealed.

My vote will go to one of those people.

Strong point, but I perfer to think mafia, regardless of if they think they're going to die soon, would asscociate themselves so closely.

"Today" I want to here from Enrique, and Juliet.

Also, in regards to the cross section between people who:
1. Voted nudge nudge
2. Voted MP
3. Didn't Critzies Hedge ( on pages 24 or 25 anyways...)
are BTW, SpaceDaisy, Canuck and MR.
When i was looking for people who critized hedge i found this, which pinged me really hard

Same question as for Enrique, MR, do YOU think the people who voted for MP are bad? Or do you just think they might be cause they voted for MP?

That block of BWT, Daisy, and Canuck is coincidental, to say the least. So they might be, but it'd be a very ballsy move by Daisy to push that strongly against MP so my thought (and vote) relied on me doubting that she's bad.

Coincidence is probably VERY likely, but intresting none the less. Most definately should be noted

[bea]

Yea -.sorry I'm here and not here. At work catching up with the thread when I can so I'm not up till 6 am this morning. Awesome night result though!

Linki- lots of interesting theories to ponder while I sling pies.

[S~V~S]

I dunno, Made, could be, but I like trying to extrapolate from the posts of the known baddie. Juliets is afk for most of the weekend~ and Enrique put a lot of time into defending YOU, Made. If you turn on him, my reason for not trying to lynch you is out the window.

Anyhow, night

[Made]

I dunno, Made, could be, but I like trying to extrapolate from the posts of the known baddie. Juliets is afk for most of the weekend~ and Enrique put a lot of time into defending YOU, Made. If you turn on him, my reason for not trying to lynch you is out the window.

Anyhow, night

What ever, civvies gotta persue leads. He was just acting really off espeically when he was talking about me. he acknowledged his offness, but still...iunno

[Made]

Night!

[Marmot]

So much to look over. I'm always wary of going after MP so early just because he is often lynched over nothing (although he was justly caught last time). I don't know Enrique or Made at all, so tomorrow I'll go over their stuff and see what jumps out.

You.
Fuck.
You've known me for years, asshole

Was DF truly ignorant of who Enrique is?

In the same post, Enrique said this to Made:

I'm starting to come to the realization that responding to all arguements/points that anyone makes towards you is a very easy way to avoid suspision.

Yeah, don't do that, lol. I'm the kind that does this and gets uber defensive. There's definitely better ways to stand your ground. Not sure if anyone here remembers the mega-post I made that one time in Piano? For Recruitment Mafia, I think. I quoted posts from like every single page in the game. People had to spend whole minutes scrolling down to the end. It was half glorious half terrible. I got lynched.

Read that two, three times over and decide for yourself if it means anything.

Remember that one time in The Hobbit when you brought up fantastic circumstantial evidence against fingers, but never pursued it? And remember how fingers ended up being a baddie? This reminds me of that, except we don't know Enrique's role.

[Marmot]

I dunno, Made, could be, but I like trying to extrapolate from the posts of the known baddie. Juliets is afk for most of the weekend~ and Enrique put a lot of time into defending YOU, Made. If you turn on him, my reason for not trying to lynch you is out the window.

Anyhow, night

I don't understand SVS, why would Made taking a good look at Enrique make him bad? I know that Enrique spent all of Day 1 arguing for the civvieness of Made, but could that not also be a perfect baddie move? Let's be hypothetical for a second; Llama brought up a VERY solid point against Made, and Made didn't do himself any favors at the beginning, so what if Enrique is bad, and Made is not on his team, meaning there's a solid chance he is good? It's the 'see, I told you he was civ' scenario that may gain him some civvie cred.

And mafia isn't personal, it's not like Made owes Enrique any favors.

[juliets]

ok, I have just kind of skimmed through the off-topic and think I saw all the posts that were on topic.

SVS - I'm not sure what I said that sounded annoyed before everything started happening, but I do know that from the game on I was annoyed. I was annoyed because I just cannot play that game, I'm too slow. And my chatzy screen started lagging so I was super upset. I was annoyed that so few people showed up in time to plan what we were going to do. I was super annoyed at MR but he has completely diffused me by saying he gets why I would be annoyed. So at this point, I'm over all that. I'll go back and read my posts from the beginning to see if I can catch what I was saying that sounded annoying then.

No MR, lol I don't dislike you at all. I was super annoyed but I thank you for doing what I needed - someone just to acknowledge it and say "fair enough".

Made, you have a line in your sig which says you are waiting to question me - well here I am! Please question me as much as you would like. Oh, and i just see now you want to hear from me - again, here I am. What would you like to know?

If i missed anything someone tell me and I'll respond.

[Enrique]

I dunno, Made, could be, but I like trying to extrapolate from the posts of the known baddie. Juliets is afk for most of the weekend~ and Enrique put a lot of time into defending YOU, Made. If you turn on him, my reason for not trying to lynch you is out the window.

Anyhow, night

I don't understand SVS, why would Made taking a good look at Enrique make him bad? I know that Enrique spent all of Day 1 arguing for the civvieness of Made, but could that not also be a perfect baddie move? Let's be hypothetical for a second; Llama brought up a VERY solid point against Made, and Made didn't do himself any favors at the beginning, so what if Enrique is bad, and Made is not on his team, meaning there's a solid chance he is good? It's the 'see, I told you he was civ' scenario that may gain him some civvie cred.

And mafia isn't personal, it's not like Made owes Enrique any favors.

Sorry I wan't around much today. Mixed day for emotions. I'll try to come back in full swing soon.

[Enrique]

Teammate is probably on Nudge nudge ( insight to what the other team is doing/what's going on in the other chat)

I made a post on this earlier. I actually disagree. I figured teammates would want to be on the same team, given there were rewards for the challenge winners. But I guess that's up to interpretation, right? If you thought that was the best strategy, there's nothing to tell me the baddies didn't as well.

What exactly did you want to hear from me, again? I saw my name be dropped but hardly any context, so I don't know how to answer.

Honestly, Made, and I hope the rest of the thread doesn't hate me for this after I put so much work into defending you... I didn't think there was a big case for you having BTSC, no, but that doesn't mean you look civvie to me, either. I find it really curious that you kept referring to DF's single "teammate," and well, since you're of the opinion that two teammates should've been on opposite teams on the challenge... is it worth pointing out that DF was a winker while you were a nudger?

Metalmarsh I did not argue for the civvieness of Made, as if I needed to say this again, I've never had a clue as to what his role was. All I knew is that the original argument was far from a VERY solid point. Honestly, I'm not even gonna get into all this WIFOM. May even end up voting for Made, lol, we'll see how things develop.

Good job randomly quoting one of my posts, Epig. Not that it was relevant, but it sure is a post by me inside a post by you!

Man this post is a mess. Sorry, I started by quoting something, then looking at everything else on the topic review beneath the reply box. I'm tired as shit, but whatever, I like doing this, mafia is fun. I also have no idea what the Hedgie thing is? Maybe I just skimmed, maybe I have terrible reading comprehension. Can somebody summarize for me?

[Enrique]

Just realized I misread MM's post, but whatever. The point stands that I cba getting into all that WIFOM. I will defend my Day 1 posts to death, but circumstances change and so will my stance on the lynch.

What you're saying relies on me knowing a lot more than any player should have at that point in the game. So in your scenario I'm bad, and I should be convinced that Made is bad because of the VERY solid points brought up against him, but... because I'm bad, I know for sure that he's a civ, and associating with him is the right choice? Damn, so I must've been really sure there was one baddie team!

Good fucking thing I didn't let Made get lynched either, right? So that whole plot kinda ends up doing nothing for me.

I'm not even sure I understand what you're saying tbh. Maybe I shouldn't mafia this late at night.

[Enrique]

I dunno, Made, could be, but I like trying to extrapolate from the posts of the known baddie. Juliets is afk for most of the weekend~ and Enrique put a lot of time into defending YOU, Made. If you turn on him, my reason for not trying to lynch you is out the window.

Anyhow, night

What ever, civvies gotta persue leads. He was just acting really off espeically when he was talking about me. he acknowledged his offness, but still...iunno

Um can you quote the post you're referring to? No memory of that happening.

[Enrique]

So many consecutive posts, but I keep finding stuff to talk about. I don't think I ever used the name "Enrique" before on any affiliated sites (other than for maybe 1 game on Piano) before. It makes sense that DF wouldn't recognize me; I know him from way back in Lostpedia when I was Eko. Since then I've been dl15, Enrico, Rico Suave, whatever. People who know me as Enrique probably do because, well, years of knowing each other, and it's the name I use on IRC.

Feel like I'm missing something but can't think of it now. I'll try to make this my last post of the night

[Enrique]

OK... shit here I go. Found something else. This is quoting Epig:

MP was not a teammate. DF doesn't "know Enrique or Made at all" (no mention of Dana even though he's quoting her. No mention of Canucklehead either). That fits the "name two people who are not on your team and one who is" cliche. Then:

Why was he supposed to mention Canuck or Dana, again? Discussion was centered around me and Made, not the other two. I'm not even sure where Canuck's name comes from in this case? She's been playing for ages, as have I. As far as I know, Dana and Made are the only actual new players for DF (unless he played Misfits? I half followed that game, but idr).

Seriously, what are you going for here? I understand scrutinizing DF's posts after we found out he was bad, but in this example you're reaching so badly. The names he dropped were the players that discussion was centered around. Why was he obligated to mention Dana and Canuck?

Never heard of the "name two people who are not on your team and one who is" cliche, either. That's super specific. Do they send memos around reminding baddies to do this? Because dude this whole post is reaching so hard.

[Bullzeye]

Wow, excellent result from the night. I think it was a good idea for people to start combing through his history to see if anything worth mentioning comes up. I'll go back through the last page or so now and see what's worth commenting on from the discussion so far, which I'm very glad isn't eleventy-billion pages again.

[Long Con]

See ya, baddie DF! S~V~S, you asked me to respond to something, would you mind repeating it?

BR and I are doing the Port Perry Fair this weekend with the Sandwich Shack, so another busy one. Then next weekend is another fair, and we're done for the year with the food truck. Just so y'all know what's going on with us. I like to catch up on my phone on the down time (assuming there is some!) so I don't expect to be missing in action. Epignosis seems to be trying to take a leadership role with his analysis around DF, so we should be vigilant when considering his logic. Maybe get a devil's advocate in there to refute some of his assumptions, just so we can look at all the angles. Maybe it will be me! We'll see how it goes today. His was my favourite post since the lynch so far though, focused analysis can now really begin.

[S~V~S]

I dunno, Made, could be, but I like trying to extrapolate from the posts of the known baddie. Juliets is afk for most of the weekend~ and Enrique put a lot of time into defending YOU, Made. If you turn on him, my reason for not trying to lynch you is out the window.

Anyhow, night

I don't understand SVS, why would Made taking a good look at Enrique make him bad? I know that Enrique spent all of Day 1 arguing for the civvieness of Made, but could that not also be a perfect baddie move? Let's be hypothetical for a second; Llama brought up a VERY solid point against Made, and Made didn't do himself any favors at the beginning, so what if Enrique is bad, and Made is not on his team, meaning there's a solid chance he is good? It's the 'see, I told you he was civ' scenario that may gain him some civvie cred.

And mafia isn't personal, it's not like Made owes Enrique any favors.

I don't want to draw any targets, you have been very very active. Indeed, your "poky, question" playstyle, while not showing much opinion of your own, has made me suspect you to some extent. You have been following closely is my point here, I would have thought you would possibly know what I was talking about. A few days back said something I found interesting, and I called him out on it, and Enrique slapped my wrist for it. So I backed off of Made due to that. But if Made is now going to suspect Enrique, what I thought to be possible becomes not as likely. And the only reason I backed off of my suspicion of Made from Day Zero is gone.

This feint from Made makes me much less trusting of him.

@JC~ perhaps I misread "annoyed" at MR for not helping with the challenge with :suspecting: Mr for the same. I thought you were suspecting him, not merely annoyed. If mere annoyance, i can see that.

OK... shit here I go. Found something else. This is quoting Epig:

MP was not a teammate. DF doesn't "know Enrique or Made at all" (no mention of Dana even though he's quoting her. No mention of Canucklehead either). That fits the "name two people who are not on your team and one who is" cliche. Then:

Why was he supposed to mention Canuck or Dana, again? Discussion was centered around me and Made, not the other two. I'm not even sure where Canuck's name comes from in this case? She's been playing for ages, as have I. As far as I know, Dana and Made are the only actual new players for DF (unless he played Misfits? I half followed that game, but idr).

Seriously, what are you going for here? I understand scrutinizing DF's posts after we found out he was bad, but in this example you're reaching so badly. The names he dropped were the players that discussion was centered around. Why was he obligated to mention Dana and Canuck?

Never heard of the "name two people who are not on your team and one who is" cliche, either. That's super specific. Do they send memos around reminding baddies to do this? Because dude this whole post is reaching so hard.

I was surprised he did not mention Dana, myself, she is new to most of us. Canuck, DF has known her for years.

I also have never heard the "name two people who are not on your team and one who is" thing either, although Epi has many theories he believes that may or may not be accurate IMO, like baddies use more adverbs, I think it was. The point here, though, is that he really does believe them, and in many cases they may be true. This would not be true for me, I avoid mentioning teammate like the plague. In Fight Club I don't think I mentioned Black Rock or Russtifinko even once, until the last fight I had with Timmer when we did the lists, might not have mentioned Hedge or Daisy either. That might apply to those who love distancing, but the players who came up from THIS forum love it more than our old school crowd.

Linki, here you go LC~

Dear LC's sig:

S~V~S seemed to be pushing the idea that baddies can take advantage of Roxy's challenges by buddying up with Civs. Despite the fact that we have not seen any indication of any of that happening, she kept the 'Public Service Announcement' going. I felt a gut ping, and I think it's the idea that a baddie S~V~S would use this as a vehicle to seem pro-Civvie.

LC, Made did it. First he made a joke about it, then when someone asked who he was suspish of, he said something like, "Um, well, BWT was not as helpful as he could have been in the challenge."

It is the main reason I said I suspected him; my thoughts have little to do with any chatroom shenanigans. Even the thing about logging in and out after Roxy cleared it does not make me suspect him more. As I said, we all do that irl. You say something off the cuff, without really thinking about it. And everyone says OK, and moves on. But in Mafia where everyone overanalyzes every little thing, you say something off the cuff, someone disputes it, you have to lie to support your own statement, you get caught again, blurgh. Lying over trivia does not necessarily make one bad, but it can be part of a pattern of behavior.

But anyhow, yeah someone did do it, Made.

And you saw me "acting civvie" in Fight Club, making up theories and not cases, and holding suspicions & votes until no one could jump on my bogus Leamiteo/Mighty Rearranger faux suspicions to make ME look suspicious. And working hard to protect Black Rock, on whom all of our fortunes rested, as well as myself; I don;t think I took one vote that whole game. Here I only have to protect myself, and am doing a piss poor job of it apparently.

So LC's sig, please think less harshly of me and perhaps consider changing in the near future.

In other news, I can't believe HOW MUCH YOU GUYS TALKED even overnight

[S~V~S]

UGH

Not proofreading ftl:

I don't want to draw any targets, you have been very very active. Indeed, your "poky, question" playstyle, while not showing much opinion of your own, has made me suspect you to some extent. You have been following closely is my point here, I would have thought you would possibly know what I was talking about. A few days back MADE said something I found interesting, and I called him out on it, and Enrique slapped my wrist for it. So I backed off of Made due to that. But if Made is now going to suspect Enrique, what I thought to be possible becomes not as likely. And the only reason I backed off of my suspicion of Made from Day Zero is gone.

Fixed

[Long Con]

Oh yeah! I thought I responded to that. Maybe I did. But here's what I say to it: What you're describing Made doing isn't what I understood your point to be.

My understanding was that the "baddies buddying up to Civvies through Roxy's challenge" concept would look like "Hey, fellow Wink-Wink, let's go after some of those Nudgers!" Wasn't that what happened in the other game you were repeatedly referencing? Wasn't that the thing you were warning us to look out for?

What you're describing Made doing ("Let's suspect BWT for challenge nonparticipation") isn't remotely the same thing from my perspective. So, my suspicion of you remains unchanged based on your response, sorry.

Don't you think it's a very different thing?

[S~V~S]

I do think it's a different thing. It is not what happened, the baddies led lynches on the non participators on the challenges. I think it is more of a moot point here since Roxy is not KEEPING us in separate threads, or doing the poll thing every night, as she did in that game. EVERY night the losing team were the lynch options. But initially I was looking at it as a fairly obvious baddie ploy.

When the lynch poll consisted of only our team, say the Nudgers, we led lynches on our own teammates for not participating in the challenges. Not on the other team, our own. Like Made did when he suspected BWT for not participating in the challenge.

I think you are misunderstanding me.

[S~V~S]

Also, like I said, you just saw my "faux civvie" game. Just a few weeks ago. This is not it, my friend.

[S~V~S]

Basically making the civvies suspect each other for reasons totally unrelated to affiliation, going back to the first point.

[Mongoose]

I do not envy poor LoRab today.

[Bullzeye]

Alright, got it.

Well getting the obvious out of the way by saying DF's own team probably didn't kill him. Whether this means there's another baddie team or we have a ninja, I don't know. In any case, it's good that he's gone.

I would assume it means there's another baddie team. I feel like if there was a ninja there'd have been two kills... unless there is one that will kill tonight? It's hard to speculate about these things when we don't know roles but at the same time if we knew them there'd be no need to wonder about them.

Pretty colors on dark backgrounds!


Teammate is probably on Nudge nudge ( insight to what the other team is doing/what's going on in the other chat)

This is a decent assumption and probably correct. I think all of us here would want our hypothetical baddie team spread across both options so we know the effects of each.

The JC(that's Juliet right?) comment is intresting, but to defend a teammate like this seems like a really bad move? As a counterarguement, was anyone else defending her? Maybe he felt he needed to speak up for the sake of her longevity. Also, Probably voted MR for a reason.

JC = Juliets Coffee AKA Juliets, yes. He's not really defending her too hard in that quote, it's not something I might pick up on in a search for teammates had we lynched JC and she flipped bad. That said he does seem to be excusing his not voting for her when it doesn't seem like it'd be necessary to. Given the amount of votes MP got as well as several others who aren't Juliets, I don't feel like he'd have been asked why he didn't vote her. So it's possible he was giving a half-hearted defense of a teammate IMO but it's not damning evidence against JC on its own.

Do you have an opinion on HIS opinion of Hedgie? All you said was that he was replying to you.

Blending in, no one was defending hedgie so it makese sense to hide there. I'd also suspect his teammate didn't have an opinion on Hedgie in chat as to not appear buddie with his teammate

I feel like I've missed something major with this Hedge thing. I hadn't noticed much about her amongst all the other stuff that happened on day 1. Can someone summarise it for me or should I just go back and look again?

What reason do you think he had for voting MR, since you think he had one?

well let's think about it two ways
If he voted to distance: His teammate probably voted MP (one hides very well the other hides in plain sight
If he voted to protect: His teammate is probably Juliet. Make her appear more likeable (this sounds less likely now that i've typed it out, but still possible)
So the overlap between people who voted for MP and those who are nudgie, or Juliet seem like a good place to start looking for teammates.

I don't think I understand some of what you're saying here. I can see why he'd distance himself from the MP bandwagon if one or more of his team were on it (to keep away from the backlash if MP had flipped civ). However, if he'd wanted to protect JC as her teammate then he should have voted MP to keep his vote count way ahead of hers. Not that she was in any danger for most if not all of the lynch.

A beautiful trifecta. Name three doors. Behind one lies a tiger. Marilyn vos Savant would be proud.

MP was not a teammate. DF doesn't "know Enrique or Made at all" (no mention of Dana even though he's quoting her. No mention of Canucklehead either). That fits the "name two people who are not on your team and one who is" cliche.

Do you think he wouldn't know Canuck because she's 'new'? Because DF and Canuck have been playing together for years. I'm pretty sure she started on the same site as him, though I could be wrong. Can't explain Dana though. How long has this cliche of yours been a thing?

Then:

So much to look over. I'm always wary of going after MP so early just because he is often lynched over nothing (although he was justly caught last time). I don't know Enrique or Made at all, so tomorrow I'll go over their stuff and see what jumps out.

You.
Fuck.
You've known me for years, asshole

Was DF truly ignorant of who Enrique is?

First time Enrique spoke to me I had to think about who he was for a while. He's had a bunch of names and I only confirmed that I knew who he was when he mentioned a thing from LP in the Team Wink chat during the challenge. So it's possible he didn't know but also possible he was faking. I'm sure you don't need me to tell you that baddie teammates of new people often play up the whole "oh you're new it's very nice to meet you" in thread for distancing purposes.

In the same post, Enrique said this to Made:

I'm starting to come to the realization that responding to all arguements/points that anyone makes towards you is a very easy way to avoid suspision.

Yeah, don't do that, lol. I'm the kind that does this and gets uber defensive. There's definitely better ways to stand your ground. Not sure if anyone here remembers the mega-post I made that one time in Piano? For Recruitment Mafia, I think. I quoted posts from like every single page in the game. People had to spend whole minutes scrolling down to the end. It was half glorious half terrible. I got lynched.

Read that two, three times over and decide for yourself if it means anything.

What do you think it means? I've read it over and over and don't see much.

This exchange smells. Sure, Mongoose is a cheerful sort, but The Hobbit ended less than two months ago. Both of them played. "OMG Where have you been?" when the person you're speaking to only missed one full game and a couple of speed games just doesn't ring true.

And DF is greeting Made.

See above re: teammates doing the "I most certainly don't know you, no sir, never seen you before" thing. Could also apply to "I haven't seen you in ages and we certainly aren't conspiring together bts right now". Not that I think that's happening here. Just worth throwing out there I suppose.

Why drop JC's name as she's taking votes and vouching for her?

Because defending teammate?

Notice that he mentions Made a third(!) time. This is important because remember he said, "so tomorrow I'll go over their stuff and see what jumps out." He didn't go over anybody's stuff, but he still reminds us that he isn't sure about the "Made/Llama thing." At the time DF voted, Made could have been lynched.

DF votes for MR for no reason and had not mentioned him previously (note that Juliets also voted for MR for what in my opinion was a lame reason- Juliets was my #2 suspect by the end of Day 1).

"Also I forgot to mention above, Hedge is looking pretty shady now." That's random and tacked on as hell.

I think this is the most interesting part of your analysis. I intend to come back to this thought because I want to look at a few things. The point about Made suggests to me that he isn't a teammate of DF. If, as you say, Made was in danger when DF cast his throwaway vote then the best thing DF could have done is jumped onto the MP bandwagon. Nobody would have held him accountable unless MP flipped civ but even if he thought that was a possibility, it'd be worth taking a little heat to keep your team intact coming out of day one, right? I think so anyway.

Remember that one time in The Hobbit when you brought up fantastic circumstantial evidence against fingers, but never pursued it? And remember how fingers ended up being a baddie? This reminds me of that, except we don't know Enrique's role.

Was she bad though? As I remember, he thought she was the mayor and he turned out to be wrong. I would need to double check though.

[Epignosis]

We are off to look at trees. See you on Monday unless we run into a very hungry and determined bear.

In which case we'll see you on Tuesday because we'll have to stop some place and get the bear meat butchered and made into sausages.

[Mongoose]

^ I have no idea if he is joking or not!

Have fun & be safe. Make sure those bears aren't making comma splices.

[juliets]

Ok, gotta run, so voting SVS for now in case I dont make it back i time.

My feelings currently are that either MP or SVS are possibly a baddie, but probably not both. SVS's super focus on Made earlier in the game, made me suspicious, but then he redirection to Metal I found equally interesting. I would think of her voting for her top suspect. That also might have been to redirect focus from the llama-Enri-Made arguments, but I still thought it was unlike her. It made me think she was reacting to the heat she was getting about her Made suspicions.

Votes SVS

I am trying to understand the suspicion on Hedgie. I went back through her posts and all I saw was objection to her using the word "probably" in the above quote, the feeling being that she was trying to hedge her bets. Is this all that is out there or did I miss a big suspicion on her about something else?

[Made]

Is this all that is out there or did I miss a big suspicion on her about something else?

Nah, that was pretty much it, it was bandwagoned pretty hard tho (myself included in the bandwagon.)

[S~V~S]

A bandwagon results in a lynch, discussion does not. She was not bandwagoned.

And in context the way that that was worded, and the whole wishy washiness of it, combined with the later posts defending, this one felt like she was hedging her bets. It came across that way in real time to several people in the thread at the same time.

[Roxy]

It's Super Cool Question Time!

Win a fantabulous prize by being the first to answer the super cool question by PM to BOTH Hosts!

Only one player got Sir Bevedere on the Quiz/Survey - who is the player?
*Disclaimer*
Ofc if it was you - you are not eligible for the prize!

[reywaS]

Do you have an opinion on HIS opinion of Hedgie? All you said was that he was replying to you.
Blending in, no one was defending hedgie so it makese sense to hide there. I'd also suspect his teammate didn't have an opinion on Hedgie in chat as to not appear buddie with his teammate
What reason do you think he had for voting MR, since you think he had one?
well let's think about it two ways
If he voted to distance: His teammate probably voted MP (one hides very well the other hides in plain sight
If he voted to protect: His teammate is probably Juliet. Make her appear more likeable (this sounds less likely now that i've typed it out, but still possible)
So the overlap between people who voted for MP and those who are nudgie, or Juliet seem like a good place to start looking for teammates.
I could go back and forth on some of it~ distancing, or protecting teammates?
Samezies

The more i think about this^^^ the more suspicious it looks. I have seen no evidence to suggest that there are 2 person baddie teams. Two person baddie teams are a rarity in mafia. It's quite possible that Made knows a lot more about the baddie team(s) than he should if he was a civvie.

[Roxy]

we have a winner!

[Made]

Do you have an opinion on HIS opinion of Hedgie? All you said was that he was replying to you.
Blending in, no one was defending hedgie so it makese sense to hide there. I'd also suspect his teammate didn't have an opinion on Hedgie in chat as to not appear buddie with his teammate
What reason do you think he had for voting MR, since you think he had one?
well let's think about it two ways
If he voted to distance: His teammate probably voted MP (one hides very well the other hides in plain sight
If he voted to protect: His teammate is probably Juliet. Make her appear more likeable (this sounds less likely now that i've typed it out, but still possible)
So the overlap between people who voted for MP and those who are nudgie, or Juliet seem like a good place to start looking for teammates.
I could go back and forth on some of it~ distancing, or protecting teammates?
Samezies

The more i think about this^^^ the more suspicious it looks. I have seen no evidence to suggest that there are 2 person baddie teams. Two person baddie teams are a rarity in mafia. It's quite possible that Made knows a lot more about the baddie team(s) than he should if he was a civvie.

Nah, I just worked off the assumption that there was one teammate
In a later post i evaluated how my post would stand up against a team of two, an even number of teammates, and an odd one.

[Mongoose]

Ok, gotta run, so voting SVS for now in case I dont make it back i time.

My feelings currently are that either MP or SVS are possibly a baddie, but probably not both. SVS's super focus on Made earlier in the game, made me suspicious, but then he redirection to Metal I found equally interesting. I would think of her voting for her top suspect. That also might have been to redirect focus from the llama-Enri-Made arguments, but I still thought it was unlike her. It made me think she was reacting to the heat she was getting about her Made suspicions.

Votes SVS

I am trying to understand the suspicion on Hedgie. I went back through her posts and all I saw was objection to her using the word "probably" in the above quote, the feeling being that she was trying to hedge her bets. Is this all that is out there or did I miss a big suspicion on her about something else?

Personally, I found her seemingly abrupt suspicion of SVS suspicious in of itself.

[Mister Rearranger]

Thought the lynch was today...

(filler)

[bea]

yes - what goosey said re: hedgy - the vote and suspish of svs seemed to come out of left field from her. At the time it wasn't quite enough for me to want to day 1 vote her (I can't even remember if she was on the poll yesterday now. It's hell getting old kids) - but it definately made me "wait? what? a minute. It didn't help any that I thought her list was somehow a JC post.

[Made]

yes - what goosey said re: hedgy - the vote and suspish of svs seemed to come out of left field from her. At the time it wasn't quite enough for me to want to day 1 vote her (I can't even remember if she was on the poll yesterday now. It's hell getting old kids) - but it definately made me "wait? what? a minute. It didn't help any that I thought her list was somehow a JC post.

Just checked, She was not on yesterday's poll

[Mister Rearranger]

Has anyone else read the first page again?

Only asking 'cause it seems like there's some confusion as to what DF's role was, as well as what MP's role could have done...

[bea]

I have now - good call MR. You think I would have thought of that, but alas I'm still no where near through cup number 1 of coffee and therefore an idiot.

Thanks for the heds up MR!!

[Enrique]

Yeah, Made... why would you make that assumption in the first place?