Cindy Kate & Percy Date Night Mafia <3 [ENDGAME]

[Alison]

I was going to do a nutella spew dig but I want to play video games with friends instead. So just pretend that I am vigorously agreeing with everything Mac says other than his scumread on Jay.

[MacDougall]

In particularly I have no idea how you can claim he is townier for having read the Nutella interactives as it is just making me more paranoid if anything. Every time I see a post of his in her ISO it is soft defense of her and subtly trying to push onto the same LHF that she is.

This is true if you ignore the posts where it's not true.

What are you saying here?

[Alison]

Also Sloonei can you expand on your Tangy/nutella interaction analysis?

[Sloonei]

@Sloonei I am sorry but your reads list is hot garbage. There is no way that Sonny, Jay and Tangy can be your top towns off Nutella interactives. We must be reading entirely different games.

Feel free to tell me why. I thought her early-early interaction with Tangy looked confused. I thought the way she handled and reacted to Sonny looked like she just accepted that he was going to be town-read, and then her response to some of his prods had the look and feel of a mafier responding to a townie. Jay is just town all the time no matter what, I didn't need to read any nutella posts for that read.

Right, sorry it seemed like you implied that your town read of Jay was related to the interactives.

There is no inherent value in Nutella locking Sonny in as town the way she did. Sonny might have been towny but she was being pushed, and he is a player for whom she has no meta and he was attracting easy townreads. It would be much easier for her (and her team) to promote him as a null/cast some doubt on that slot simply mathemetically. There is agenda behind her acquiescence to the thread considering him town.

There is however, only one between he, Tangy and Jay imo because I doubt Nutella lumps all three of them into the top tier as town along with Guillo if two of them are mafia. Nutella is a typical wolf that way. She will scatter her wolf teammates around in her readslists. She will also seek to ensure that one of them is always positioned to run deep with her.

The question is, is it the one that she had some awkward interactions with that make no real sense (Tangy) or the one that she locked as top town based on thread sentiment despite the fact that they sheeped me asking them to vote her?

I mildly lean towards Sonny.

Do you think one of those three must be bad simply because of a "Rule of 3" type of thing?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

There is however, only one between he, Tangy and Jay imo because I doubt Nutella lumps all three of them into the top tier as town along with Guillo if two of them are mafia. Nutella is a typical wolf that way. She will scatter her wolf teammates around in her readslists. She will also seek to ensure that one of them is always positioned to run deep with her.

The question is, is it the one that she had some awkward interactions with that make no real sense (Tangy) or the one that she locked as top town based on thread sentiment despite the fact that they sheeped me asking them to vote her?

I mildly lean towards Sonny.

I don't think there has to be a mafioso in that set of three. If there is one I'd agree on Sonny. I feel no sense that this is a necessary assumption though.

[Actvscenei]

Okay, I lied, I kept reading. People from MafC still seem to keep saying "oh, that is just Actv". As of Page 18, the only posts by Actv that look like town!Actv are with regards to Dana. Her interactions with everyone else do NOT look like town!Actv. Actv knows her meta, and I think she came in deliberatly trying to fake her paranoia/weird questions thing with Dana, but hasn't kept up with it with anyone else. I don't know anything that has happened after Page 18, but a lot of MafC players are saying "that's just act" early on, and I disagree.

Do you have a more concrete reason for scum reading me (to then vote me) other than meta? I don’t buy this as a real read considering you hardly know my meta lol.

Please quote where I’ve been paranoid with Dana.

What are my weird questions? Can you quote those as well?

What specifically am I doing that you believe is scum motivated?

Our first game together, you came at me with paranoia and weird questions, and I just responded with "I like you" or something like that, because you were obv town to me. I haven't always successfully read you since, but I feel I have at least as good a grasp on your meta as the average grasp of the people who have said "oh, this is just typical Actv". Also, unless you're playing on sites other than MafC (quite possible, but somehow I'd guess you aren't), I've probably been in all, or maybe all but one of your games since you've been back from your long hiatus, so aside from pre-hiatus friends, I know your meta as good as anyone.

Dana came in with an in-flavor fluff post that you made a big stirr about early on. That looked a little like town!Actv, but imo it rang hollow (meta-replication rather than actual Actv paranoia/suspicion). I'm not going to go quote stuff right now because I still have something like 25 pages to read, which takes precedence right meow.

Not sure, I'm not fully caught up. The fact that you seem to still be pushing Dana seems pretty bad since she looks pretty towny in the first 24 pages, but maybe Dana goes way downhill in the second half of D1? Who knows? (everyone except me:P) Either way, my scumread on you isn't based on seeing an agenda, my scumread on you is based on the fact that you don't look like town!Actv, and that your interactions with Nutella look w/w. You have ZERO of your patent Actv paranoia with regard to her, and while I was reading at the beginning (like pages 3-10 or something), her early push on you just screamed w/w (I mean, I had TMI on Nutella so it was probably easier for me to see than others who read it D1), and it was like a bad movie where you can guess the ending when she backed off of you for bad reasons. It reeks of distancing.

Okay, but I asked you where I was paranoid with Dana. You said I was, I disagree, so I’d like to know where you see that paranoia.

I don’t think I’ve made a “big stir” about anything. I questioned Dana on an early entrance post, people questioned me, I answered the questions. Can you explain how it was a “big stir?”

What is the logic on scum continuing to push a generally town read player? You bring it up as being scummy, but I’m not sure how.

You can go read the first 10 pages if you want to see what I'm talking about. I don't have time to fight about it since I am way behind. Fight me later, k?

I know my posts lol, and I disagree with what you’re saying. Your read on me doesn’t feel real, and I’m asking you to defend it. So far, you haven’t been able to.

Nah, you're not asking me to defend myself, you're asking for something to defend against. Good try though.

MafC folk who have said Actv is just being Actv, go find my first post (it is easy to find since my ISO is so short [to find my ISO click the "posts in topic: #" number thingy if you haven't figure this out yet]), and then read the posts by Actv right beforehand. Tell me that is paranoid town!Actv interacting with people she doesn't really know.

But I am asking you to defend yourself. Lol. You made a handful of statements and I’m asking you to back those statements up with proof. You’ve either told me you can’t or you won’t because you’re still catching up. So what we’ve got is you making a read and a vote on me based on meta alone and unsubstantiated statements. Now, you’ve put an all call out to the PerC people refusing, yet again, to point out what I’m asking you to point out. I don’t care that you suspect me, I care that you’re suspecting me on no basis which to me looks like shade or at best, a read that is unfounded. You have not interacted with me once, you haven’t questioned me once, and after voting me, when I question you, you answer with vague gestures and tell me not right now because you’re busy. You aren’t trying to figure me out, you’re trying to shade me which obviously has me wondering why.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'd appreciate some feedback on my previous hawk/nutella review. I do think there are moments there that can be interpreted; it's just a bit of a judgment call. I want to hear others' judgment calls.

[Sloonei]

In particularly I have no idea how you can claim he is townier for having read the Nutella interactives as it is just making me more paranoid if anything. Every time I see a post of his in her ISO it is soft defense of her and subtly trying to push onto the same LHF that she is.

This is true if you ignore the posts where it's not true.

What are you saying here?

I disagree. I think there at least a couple posts where Jay makes meaningful contributions to the push against nutella.

[Tangrowth]

Time may be harder to come by today than I imagined, but I'll be back later tonight for at least something. Thanks to everyone pushing the game and investigation forward.

[Sloonei]

Also Sloonei can you expand on your Tangy/nutella interaction analysis?

Right out of the gate, Tangy was uber-excited, in full Dog Pee mode. She directed a good portion of that excitement at nutella. nutella did not reciprocate. It would strike me as a very odd opening move from the two of them if, as partners, Tangy decided to prod nutella with blanket enthusiasm for working and playing together this game, and nutella responded with a total lack of energy. I think it looked like nutella was unsure how to handle Tangy's enthusiasm in the moment, and that leads me to believe they are not aligned.

[Seanzie]

Do you have a more concrete reason for scum reading me (to then vote me) other than meta? I don’t buy this as a real read considering you hardly know my meta lol.

Please quote where I’ve been paranoid with Dana.

What are my weird questions? Can you quote those as well?

What specifically am I doing that you believe is scum motivated?

Our first game together, you came at me with paranoia and weird questions, and I just responded with "I like you" or something like that, because you were obv town to me. I haven't always successfully read you since, but I feel I have at least as good a grasp on your meta as the average grasp of the people who have said "oh, this is just typical Actv". Also, unless you're playing on sites other than MafC (quite possible, but somehow I'd guess you aren't), I've probably been in all, or maybe all but one of your games since you've been back from your long hiatus, so aside from pre-hiatus friends, I know your meta as good as anyone.

Dana came in with an in-flavor fluff post that you made a big stirr about early on. That looked a little like town!Actv, but imo it rang hollow (meta-replication rather than actual Actv paranoia/suspicion). I'm not going to go quote stuff right now because I still have something like 25 pages to read, which takes precedence right meow.

Not sure, I'm not fully caught up. The fact that you seem to still be pushing Dana seems pretty bad since she looks pretty towny in the first 24 pages, but maybe Dana goes way downhill in the second half of D1? Who knows? (everyone except me:P) Either way, my scumread on you isn't based on seeing an agenda, my scumread on you is based on the fact that you don't look like town!Actv, and that your interactions with Nutella look w/w. You have ZERO of your patent Actv paranoia with regard to her, and while I was reading at the beginning (like pages 3-10 or something), her early push on you just screamed w/w (I mean, I had TMI on Nutella so it was probably easier for me to see than others who read it D1), and it was like a bad movie where you can guess the ending when she backed off of you for bad reasons. It reeks of distancing.

Okay, but I asked you where I was paranoid with Dana. You said I was, I disagree, so I’d like to know where you see that paranoia.

I don’t think I’ve made a “big stir” about anything. I questioned Dana on an early entrance post, people questioned me, I answered the questions. Can you explain how it was a “big stir?”

What is the logic on scum continuing to push a generally town read player? You bring it up as being scummy, but I’m not sure how.

You can go read the first 10 pages if you want to see what I'm talking about. I don't have time to fight about it since I am way behind. Fight me later, k?

I know my posts lol, and I disagree with what you’re saying. Your read on me doesn’t feel real, and I’m asking you to defend it. So far, you haven’t been able to.

Nah, you're not asking me to defend myself, you're asking for something to defend against. Good try though.

MafC folk who have said Actv is just being Actv, go find my first post (it is easy to find since my ISO is so short [to find my ISO click the "posts in topic: #" number thingy if you haven't figure this out yet]), and then read the posts by Actv right beforehand. Tell me that is paranoid town!Actv interacting with people she doesn't really know.

But I am asking you to defend yourself. Lol. You made a handful of statements and I’m asking you to back those statements up with proof. You’ve either told me you can’t or you won’t because you’re still catching up. So what we’ve got is you making a read and a vote on me based on meta alone and unsubstantiated statements. Now, you’ve put an all call out to the PerC people refusing, yet again, to point out what I’m asking you to point out. I don’t care that you suspect me, I care that you’re suspecting me on no basis which to me looks like shade or at best, a read that is unfounded. You have not interacted with me once, you haven’t questioned me once, and after voting me, when I question you, you answer with vague gestures and tell me not right now because you’re busy. You aren’t trying to figure me out, you’re trying to shade me which obviously has me wondering why.

Sure, you're asking, but I don't believe it is in earnest.

I'm trying to read the game. I'm not trying to question or interact with anyone (except for the bare minimum to keep up to date with today so I don't fall futher behind), but just give my thoughts on D1 since I was too busy IRL to do that during D1. You'll have to deal with that.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Interactions of nutella and Long Con

From nutella

Spoiler: show

Strong town
Jay
Sonny
Guillo
Tangy

Town leans
Gnome
Alison
Martin I guess sheeping alison
Dana
Mac
Sloonei
Hawk? Liked their style
Act maybe at this point

Gav Nook LC are more tbd
Dont remember anyone else

Going to sleep for like 12 hours gl

love that like a third of the players aren't doing anything d1

i forgot LC was even in this game

When nutella claims she forgot LC is in the game, I believe her. Good look.

~~~

From Long Con

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: nutella] aubergine

I guess

Is she bad? I could have a look at her ISO I suppose.

Now we have a wild and crazy runaway wagon at 7 votes.

Thoughts on nutella please and thanks.

I looked at some of her recent ISO, not sure why she's such a wagon.

[VOTE: nutella] aubergine

I guess

Is she bad? I could have a look at her ISO I suppose.

I really don't know. I have never read nutella particularly well.

On this one I'm kinda following the Mac/Nanook/Alison squad. nutella kinda went wonky last night and I dunno what do with it, so

Wonky, eh? How so?

I really dont know what to think of nutella, maybe i havent been paying enough attention to her but everytime i see her posts i dont think anything....it leaves literally no impression on me

That's how I feel about most Day 1 posts.

To put it more simply: nutella's reception of votes/suspicion looked like what I'd expect to see inside a mafia chat. Don't worry, these votes won't stand. I have no idea why that's in the game thread, so... "wonky". I won't call it super crazy suspicious, but I am not defending it either.

It doesn't ping me too much, I feel like I have been in the same position before. Early Day 1 votes are easy to brush off, and mostly don't inform late Day 1 polls.

Of course, if nutella is a wolf, then I'll not look great.

I don't think nutella's wagon will unhitch in time to save her though.

Of course, if nutella is a wolf, then I'll not look great.

Who cares. Stances are appreciated

I don't know that nutella is that bad. I haven't read back to the original start of her train, but her posts today seem all right. Frustrated for sure, and you and Sloonei might have a point about her Sloonei OMGUS reasons, but I don't think it's super AI.

has Long Con always been in the game? I think I missed that.

Welcome to the @Long Con Town Shrine.

Where we Warship the Town member called Long Con!

[IMAGE SNIP]

Anyway I'm a limited investigative, honestly prob not a super important role but I hope I can use it creatively enough

This does seem a little like a fake claim, because if it works then she can shape and mold it in any way she wants. Probably a red check on Night 3 or something to seal her town deal.

An Owner vote at this stage. These votes ain't saving nutella unless they consolidate. Maybe that's for the best.

Should nutella flip town, I would urge the remainder of town to maintain a sense of chill in your mindsets. The overall health of this game thread has been okay, but I do think it could teeter on collapse into stupidity pretty fast if we don't remain mindful of it. If she's town, we'll be okay. Pool heads and work together.

She's clearly town.

The last post in that spoiler makes me think Long Con is town. Since that's a pure wifom read though I will still review in full. Long Con didn't say anything about nutella until her wagon had swelled to 7 with my first vote. So he and I talked about it a bit, and he wasn't sold. It's not a common occurrence that Long Con is sold by a case on Day 1 that he didn't craft himself, so that's not necessarily surprising. He voted Made in the end. So his read trended the wrong direction and culminated in a counterwagon vote. One is forced to take that or leave it. I tend to believe in his sincerity with a moderate degree of confidence.

~~~

Conclusion

This is one where a case can be made against Long Con, and it'd be super easy to do so. And I'd find it lame. I cannot claim supreme confidence on this just because he did vote Made and there isn't a ton here -- but my instincts tell me LC is not on nutella's team.

[MacDougall]

actv is just town tho, nut was genuinely trying to chop the perceived lhf lol nutella spew is real

all of nutella's act suspicion was very early on when no one was actually at risk of being chopped.

it doesn't matter nutella is transparent when she is trying to chop someone earnestly, it's the same with lost monkey

Is she incapable of distancing?
What about her Owner read?

Come on Sloonei.

Is she incapable of distancing?
What about her Owner read?

She is capable of distancing. She is also incapable of hiding when she is baring fangs trying to kill LHF. There are stark differences in her treatment of actv and lost monkey vs. owner, not just including her own posts but also the thread sentiment and context.

[MacDougall]

@Sloonei I am sorry but your reads list is hot garbage. There is no way that Sonny, Jay and Tangy can be your top towns off Nutella interactives. We must be reading entirely different games.

Feel free to tell me why. I thought her early-early interaction with Tangy looked confused. I thought the way she handled and reacted to Sonny looked like she just accepted that he was going to be town-read, and then her response to some of his prods had the look and feel of a mafier responding to a townie. Jay is just town all the time no matter what, I didn't need to read any nutella posts for that read.

Right, sorry it seemed like you implied that your town read of Jay was related to the interactives.

There is no inherent value in Nutella locking Sonny in as town the way she did. Sonny might have been towny but she was being pushed, and he is a player for whom she has no meta and he was attracting easy townreads. It would be much easier for her (and her team) to promote him as a null/cast some doubt on that slot simply mathemetically. There is agenda behind her acquiescence to the thread considering him town.

There is however, only one between he, Tangy and Jay imo because I doubt Nutella lumps all three of them into the top tier as town along with Guillo if two of them are mafia. Nutella is a typical wolf that way. She will scatter her wolf teammates around in her readslists. She will also seek to ensure that one of them is always positioned to run deep with her.

The question is, is it the one that she had some awkward interactions with that make no real sense (Tangy) or the one that she locked as top town based on thread sentiment despite the fact that they sheeped me asking them to vote her?

I mildly lean towards Sonny.

Do you think one of those three must be bad simply because of a "Rule of 3" type of thing?

Sure if that helps you understand it.

[Sloonei]

I'd appreciate some feedback on my previous hawk/nutella review. I do think there are moments there that can be interpreted; it's just a bit of a judgment call. I want to hear others' judgment calls.

I'm inclined to agree with your conclusion. I thought the post where hawk dug into nutella's ISO looks not-bad. But I have lingering questions and concerns about hawk that are not necessarily tied to nutella interactions. Her vote is still a concern.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Right out of the gate, Tangy was uber-excited, in full Dog Pee mode.

This reference might be lost on the new Syndicate generation.

[Tangy] right now reminds me of a dog who is so excited she is just peeing all over everything.

This since became a hallmark of town Tangy. This was a long time ago, but I still feel fine overall with Tangy in this Mafia game.

[MacDougall]

Also Sloonei can you expand on your Tangy/nutella interaction analysis?

Right out of the gate, Tangy was uber-excited, in full Dog Pee mode. She directed a good portion of that excitement at nutella. nutella did not reciprocate. It would strike me as a very odd opening move from the two of them if, as partners, Tangy decided to prod nutella with blanket enthusiasm for working and playing together this game, and nutella responded with a total lack of energy. I think it looked like nutella was unsure how to handle Tangy's enthusiasm in the moment, and that leads me to believe they are not aligned.

[Sloonei]

She is capable of distancing. She is also incapable of hiding when she is baring fangs trying to kill LHF. There are stark differences in her treatment of actv and lost monkey vs. owner, not just including her own posts but also the thread sentiment and context.

I felt like there were differences between how she handled act and how she handled lost monkey.

With LoMo she was much more aggressive and seeking to bring people into her case against them. With Act, it felt like nutella was being more reserved and reactive, and that she dropped the case once other people started doing the same thing.

[MacDougall]

I am mindful of the fact that if there is even 1 mafia between Jay, Sloonei and Alison that once the two of the three that aren't that mafia and I die that person is probably just going to win, and I am very conflicted as to why the three of them are choosing to walk that path, particularly Alison, given Jay and Sloonei both acted in defense of Nutella in the most literal way and Jay in particular was present during Nutella wifom hours mopping up anti spew cred.

[MacDougall]

She is capable of distancing. She is also incapable of hiding when she is baring fangs trying to kill LHF. There are stark differences in her treatment of actv and lost monkey vs. owner, not just including her own posts but also the thread sentiment and context.

I felt like there were differences between how she handled act and how she handled lost monkey.

With LoMo she was much more aggressive and seeking to bring people into her case against them. With Act, it felt like nutella was being more reserved and reactive, and that she dropped the case once other people started doing the same thing.

She dropped the case when there was no juice left in it and she knew she wasn't going to get traction on it and then went to the next LHF in her path to try to find her mischop.

[Sloonei]

Sure if that helps you understand it.

I would disagree with that sentiment if it were the case.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I am mindful of the fact that if there is even 1 mafia between Jay, Sloonei and Alison that once the two of the three that aren't that mafia and I die that person is probably just going to win, and I am very conflicted as to why the three of them are choosing to walk that path, particularly Alison, given Jay and Sloonei both acted in defense of Nutella in the most literal way and Jay in particular was present during Nutella wifom hours mopping up anti spew cred.

I can't speak for those two, but I don't engage in being afraid of Mafia players. If I think they're town then I play accordingly. I think they're town. I don't worry about this stuff.

[Seanzie]

I've mostly felt good about Tangy, but I just got to her interactions with me when I first entered. I asked about who to vote since I was not caught up and knew I wasn't going to have time to get caught up, and she gave me a list of four names to not vote, one of which was Nutella. I voted Owner and asked Tangy about it, and Tangy felt... awkward about that vote, but not willing to directly dissuade me from it. If Owner is scum, I think Tangy's scum equity increases.

[Gavial]

I am mindful of the fact that if there is even 1 mafia between Jay, Sloonei and Alison that once the two of the three that aren't that mafia and I die that person is probably just going to win, and I am very conflicted as to why the three of them are choosing to walk that path, particularly Alison, given Jay and Sloonei both acted in defense of Nutella in the most literal way and Jay in particular was present during Nutella wifom hours mopping up anti spew cred.

JJJ doesn’t hard defend his scum bud right off the bat.
Like the way he handled Nut SoD1 felt never W/W.
I was actually going to clear Nut if JJJ flipped Red because I thought JJJ was the scum within them because JJJ felt like they were trying to pocket Nut. JJJ for some reason had a very strong TR on Nut.

[Sloonei]

Sloonei... acted in defense of Nutella in the most literal way

[Sloonei]

that... is not the emoji i selected.

[MacDougall]

I am mindful of the fact that if there is even 1 mafia between Jay, Sloonei and Alison that once the two of the three that aren't that mafia and I die that person is probably just going to win, and I am very conflicted as to why the three of them are choosing to walk that path, particularly Alison, given Jay and Sloonei both acted in defense of Nutella in the most literal way and Jay in particular was present during Nutella wifom hours mopping up anti spew cred.

I can't speak for those two, but I don't engage in being afraid of Mafia players. If I think they're town then I play accordingly. I think they're town. I don't worry about this stuff.

I will grant you that it is more reasonable from your perspective as they both have more obvious things going for them than you do. It is their approach to you that worries me moreso and what I meant when I said that I think you might be spewed town.

[MacDougall]

I am mindful of the fact that if there is even 1 mafia between Jay, Sloonei and Alison that once the two of the three that aren't that mafia and I die that person is probably just going to win, and I am very conflicted as to why the three of them are choosing to walk that path, particularly Alison, given Jay and Sloonei both acted in defense of Nutella in the most literal way and Jay in particular was present during Nutella wifom hours mopping up anti spew cred.

JJJ doesn’t hard defend his scum bud right off the bat.
Like the way he handled Nut SoD1 felt never W/W.
I was actually going to clear Nut if JJJ flipped Red because I thought JJJ was the scum within them because JJJ felt like they were trying to pocket Nut. JJJ for some reason had a very strong TR on Nut.

JJJ is a power player. He absolutely would defend his teammate because, much like me, he is rarely if ever held to account for anything he does because of his clout and when he does he can just post himself clear as either alignment.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

JJJ for some reason had a very strong TR on Nut.

Give her credit for consistently being one of my worst Syndicate reads.

At least this time I mostly broke out of it and accepted the consensus.

[Gavial]

nutella seems town

It was this that shook me SoD.
@MacDougall

[Gavial]

I am mindful of the fact that if there is even 1 mafia between Jay, Sloonei and Alison that once the two of the three that aren't that mafia and I die that person is probably just going to win, and I am very conflicted as to why the three of them are choosing to walk that path, particularly Alison, given Jay and Sloonei both acted in defense of Nutella in the most literal way and Jay in particular was present during Nutella wifom hours mopping up anti spew cred.

JJJ doesn’t hard defend his scum bud right off the bat.
Like the way he handled Nut SoD1 felt never W/W.
I was actually going to clear Nut if JJJ flipped Red because I thought JJJ was the scum within them because JJJ felt like they were trying to pocket Nut. JJJ for some reason had a very strong TR on Nut.

JJJ is a power player. He absolutely would defend his teammate because, much like me, he is rarely if ever held to account for anything he does because of his clout and when he does he can just post himself clear as either alignment.

Your 100% he would do that?

[MacDougall]

nutella seems town

It was this that shook me SoD.
@MacDougall

You can't give someone like Jay any credit for something this wifomy. Even if you are proven right this is a terrible read and I am sure Jay would tell you that it is within his range to treat a teammate like that.

[MacDougall]

I am mindful of the fact that if there is even 1 mafia between Jay, Sloonei and Alison that once the two of the three that aren't that mafia and I die that person is probably just going to win, and I am very conflicted as to why the three of them are choosing to walk that path, particularly Alison, given Jay and Sloonei both acted in defense of Nutella in the most literal way and Jay in particular was present during Nutella wifom hours mopping up anti spew cred.

JJJ doesn’t hard defend his scum bud right off the bat.
Like the way he handled Nut SoD1 felt never W/W.
I was actually going to clear Nut if JJJ flipped Red because I thought JJJ was the scum within them because JJJ felt like they were trying to pocket Nut. JJJ for some reason had a very strong TR on Nut.

JJJ is a power player. He absolutely would defend his teammate because, much like me, he is rarely if ever held to account for anything he does because of his clout and when he does he can just post himself clear as either alignment.

Your 100% he would do that?

ask the man yourself

[JaggedJimmyJay]

nutella seems town

It was this that shook me SoD.
@MacDougall

You can't give someone like Jay any credit for something this wifomy. Even if you are proven right this is a terrible read and I am sure Jay would tell you that it is within his range to treat a teammate like that.

Prob. Only typical difference is that I'd sustain the read and push it harder.

[Gavial]

that... is not the emoji i selected.

No but it was pretty funny!

[MacDougall]

Jay understands how to play mafia out of near any situation so he is unafraid to put himself into bad places in defense of his wincon, as either alignment. He literally just said as much when he made the point that he is "unafraid to play mafia" or whatever. The man has written essays on mafia game theory.

He and I are a lot alike I just am more of a dickhead than him.

[Sloonei]

I'm not sure I've seen this version of nutella before, with this sort of flippant reception of suspicion/votes. Wack. I'm just gonna stare at these a while and let my brain sort:

Strong town
Jay
Sonny
Guillo
Tangy

Town leans
Gnome
Alison
Martin I guess sheeping alison
Dana
Mac
Sloonei
Hawk? Liked their style
Act maybe at this point

Gav Nook LC are more tbd
Dont remember anyone else

Going to sleep for like 12 hours gl

Oh I did put mac on that list huh. Must have felt stronger at the time, when i was comparing tangy's gth reads to my own mac was one of the harder ones

If you want a post that spews Jay as town in relation to nutella, have this one.

[MacDougall]

Gavial, Jay subbed into Bluey Mafia in a lockwolf slot and if you can see any actual difference between his play there from here you're making it up. The only reason that he even died is because Marmot knew that he needed to be solved by PR cuz he would have just talked his way into the POE.

[Guillotine]

nutella continues talking to people

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: lost monkey] aubergine

you seem to be in neutral commentary mode, let's see some reads

Beep boop vote for lost monkey. Meh. This could very easily be a teammate prod. It could just as easily be an easy observation to direct toward a low key civilian.

Spoiler: show

Strong town
Jay
Sonny
Guillo
Tangy

Town leans
Gnome
Alison
Martin I guess sheeping alison
Dana
Mac
Sloonei
Hawk? Liked their style
Act maybe at this point

Gav Nook LC are more tbd
Dont remember anyone else

Going to sleep for like 12 hours gl

Juicy. A reads list. Sonny gets places in the "Strong Town" pile after appearing only once previously in this ISO, when nutella simply agreed with someone else's town read on them. I am inclined to say that's a good look for Sonny: sometimes mafia members will effortlessly adopt firm town reads on town players that are not suspected by anyone because there's no sense in pushing on them. I don't feel like nutella would place her teammate on such a high pedestal out of the blue like this.

Intriguing town leans: Gnome, Martin, Dana, Hawk, Act. Both Hawk and Act get slight quibbles, which is something I could see nutella attaching to a teammate. Martin also gets a caveat about sheeping Alison, but that's not as much of a concern. If Alison is town and nutella has assigned town-read status to her, she is almost forced to also assign a town-read to Martin.
Dana and Mac both came up a little bit earlier on in this ISO but with no firm conclusions. I have no immediate concerns about them here. I would not be surprised if there is at least one teammate in nutella's "town leans" pile.
Gavial, nanook, and Long Con all get suspicion hurled at them for no stated reason. Noted. I don't remember any notable mentions of or interactions with LC prior to this.

Spoiler: show

I think Act's posting has improved in recent times. I'm willing to give her some space and see how she uses it.

I liked her dismissive response to you asking for a read list tbh

Noting that nutella has now substantiated a town read on Act. Coolio.

Spoiler: show

Alison what do you think about lost monkey?

Prompts Alison to talk about lost monkey. Inclined to call that a good look for our monkey friend.

Spoiler: show

First date icebreaker question for everyone: what’s your favorite trip you’ve ever been on?

Disney World/Disney Cruises. And you?

Follow up, why did you choose to ask this particular question?

Hi!

To the PerC people and/or anyone else who wants to answer:

1) what do you think you bring to a game when you're town?
2) what do you hope to accomplish this game?

1. My town reads.
2. Win with town.

Finding someone genuine?


Unrelated, screw nested quotes. Really.

yeah lol

Not really the only reason no I just sort of generally toneread you as wolfy/found your approach disingenuous, starting with the dana read (bc again I'm a defender of hedginess and didn't see it your way). But as you've posted more it seems like that's just your style and you are poking in various places and have solvey intentions. I could move off you but don't know where

You could just unvote? There is no compulsion that a person needs to be voted. This I could move off you but don't know where stuff I don't buy it and seems fake. Leaning scum here.

Allison like an evolved form of alana lol.

Hello, I'm Tangy and this is my first mafia game.

Hi Tangy. This may be one of my final mafia games I play. I have been considering retirement. Not, to rain on the date though, I just feel as though I can't mod how I want to mod anymore, which is my main appeal to the game in the recent years.

Owner you should try modding games here owner. Some of the setup i have seen here are right up your alley.

What do you want me to expand?

If I didn't play a game before this one, I would been the same way as act and you on dana.

It'd be super to know what made you feel this way, and what playing a game before this one did to change your perspective.

The playstyles are mainly the reason if I have to say. Certain things which you guys see as townie are not seen as townie thing over there. Now lets take act what you guys saw stilted and acting scummie from act we consider as something normal from her. This is her playstyle this is how she plays regardless of alignment. Similarly to what you felt with gnome. I felt the same way when I saw syn, mac play. Dana coming in and saying i am nervous and stuff if i didnt see others play last game even i would have felt it was scummie.

Like my impression is most of LM's posts are comments on things that don't actually have bearing on the game itself, there's a couple like the discussion of act's style that could come close to giving a read but avoid actually doing so. There's a hint of a scumread on me, and some interaction with Jay and that's it. I feel like they're hesitant to actually get into the meat of the game.

Okay. By far the most substantial post in the first 24 hours of the game from nutella is a mini-case against lost monkey. That is a good look. This feels much more like "I have identified my Day 1 target and will begin pushing them here" rather than "I better start shading my partner."

Spoiler: show

I thought Owner was sort of off-topic/not into the game yet in a more similar way to Gnome (which I found townier than LM's borderline approach)

By contrast, here's a not-good look for Owner. And maybe a good look for Gnome? Owner starts to receive some heat, and nutella comes to her defense promptly, and cites another player (Gnome) whose style Owner is reminiscent of. It's possible that Gnome is town and nutella chose this particular association (Owner -> Gnome) so that the towny goodness of Gnome could be transmitted to Owner in turn. The unprompted dig at lost monkey is also another good look for them, and gives this post an air of slight anxiety: nutella wants attention on monkey and off of Owner.

Spoiler: show

......kito? wat why

This is in response to Guillo placing Kito in their list of Top 3 town reads. It's an easy question to ask. It might be easier if Kito really is town. But it's still easy even if Kito is nutella's partner. Meh.

Spoiler: show

Funny thing, when I woke up one of my first thoughts was I bet LoMo would be leading the votes and lol, here it is, should be fun to catch up. 2 is meh, but it tickles me that I saw that one coming.

do you have a read there?

Unless lost monkey specifically requested to be bussed Day 1, this is too aggressive to be distancing. I don't think that is likely.

Spoiler: show

Meh talk to me about belzy i dont have a good handle there

After several posts going back and forth with Guillo (town), nutella asks for some talk about Belzy. This is Belzy's first appearance in nutella's ISO. Neat.

Spoiler: show

@Alison So my comment about nutella's first post feels similar to the interesting tell. "Upgaymers" feels like a filler word. In a previous game on here I picked out Sloonei saying "spicy", which apparently people on here and MU both use. I'm trying to keep an open mind that it could very well be a community clash. But at the same time, it feels like it is something that wouldn't necessarily be said. I don't know if it could be too scummy to be scum or if the context of it is just this site players that commonly use words I'm not use to, which typing them feels of note, as it is uncommon for me to see it in game. But for me, it feels off. It's not directly aligned with a specific tell though.

wait this is the funniest thing ive ever seen

Does this read from Owner exist if they are partners? It was a bit goofy from the beginning. I don't know Owner well enough to say whether or not she would produce this read on her teammate. Nutella's response is nothing.

Spoiler: show

How does one catch Alison as scum anyway? This is not a rhetorical question.

I don't know. I think you need to explain her playstyle or look for patterns in her playstyle over time.

Huh

Why does this post exist

Why does this post exist?

Spoiler: show

not sure, how I feel about all the lomo votes...hmm...I'm not caught up. But it seems like I keep seeing PerC wagons as if we are unwelcomed on someone's home turf...adk

I really hate this AtE.

[VOTE: Owner] aubergine

It's not AtE. It's I see 4 votes on lomo that look steady or have been there for a period of time. Generally like 4 or 5 votes on someone is like there is probably scum in that wagon. Or it could mean like a cop check or something, but generally day 1 a wagon that size and potentially unmoving is kind of meh for me.

So from that point of view, I think he might be town, but I have yet to read his posts, so I don't know yet.

lalala dadv isnt real it cant hurt me

Owner objects to the monkey wagon, and nutella playfully shoots her objection down. Meh. I can go either way on this.

Spoiler: show

not sure, how I feel about all the lomo votes...hmm...I'm not caught up. But it seems like I keep seeing PerC wagons as if we are unwelcomed on someone's home turf...adk

I really hate this AtE.

[VOTE: Owner] aubergine

It's not AtE. It's I see 4 votes on lomo that look steady or have been there for a period of time. Generally like 4 or 5 votes on someone is like there is probably scum in that wagon. Or it could mean like a cop check or something, but generally day 1 a wagon that size and potentially unmoving is kind of meh for me.

So from that point of view, I think he might be town, but I have yet to read his posts, so I don't know yet.

"PerC players are being wagoned by unwelcoming Syndicate players" -> "This specific wagon on a PerC player is probably scum-driven because of its static nature" doesn't connect. If you don't like the LoMo wagon because there's no resistance, say so. Framing it as a PerC vs Syndicate thing reads as fishing for an appeal to emotion, and doesn't really make sense if your primary concern was the size and fluidity of the wagon. It does make sense if you have TMI on LoMo so I'm very happy to vote you.

mmmm spicy

At the very least, nutella is no longer uncomfortable with people talking about Owner. I still don't know if anything here suggests that they are not compatible though.
The way nutella is handling Alison looks very good for her.

Spoiler: show

Like mafia mac or nook could be pushing me because I'm not literally the top poster and they think they can look good for not just admitting I'm obv town already

But I'm not afraid of mac staying on me for more than like five minutes regardless of his alignment

I think nanook is just town here. I am more iffy on Mac, but this second post feels like it's meant to be a playful taunt to disarm Mac slightly. That would be a good indicator for him.

Spoiler: show

I feel like town nutella would be fiercer and less deflective here.

I'm torn about whether to vote Owner or nutella.

The people voting for me are mac, nanook, and guillo

I'm not concerned lol

I have deemed this response to be Fake. Nutella is concerned. She is concerned because all three of these people are town and their votes are Legit.

Spoiler: show

Hi!

To the PerC people and/or anyone else who wants to answer:

1) what do you think you bring to a game when you're town?
2) what do you hope to accomplish this game?

[VOTE: Tangy] aubergine Same reasons as voting for Sloonei...it's a tell. This questionnaire feels more agenda based than Sloonei's did. It feels like you are really looking to see where everyone is at. It's like you are specifically fishing for something. There is a motive behind this.

It kind of looks like you are trying to be on good graces, but to me it feels like you are searching for reasons to keep or not keep someone in the game. It is troublesome.

hmm

going for the big fish here eh

Not feisty enough.

Spoiler: show

I feel like town nutella would be fiercer and less deflective here.

I'm torn about whether to vote Owner or nutella.

The people voting for me are mac, nanook, and guillo

I'm not concerned lol

Why do the people voting you matter here?

for mac see my last post, for nanook and guillo basically I always expect us to suspect each other

It's always town in sonnydelphia.

Spoiler: show

Oooh, Nook isn't self voting anymore.

Owner, please just catch up. All this talk about not being caught up is shady.

I'm like not caught up most games. I don't get why people keep calling it that way when it happens like every game. It's like no one remembers this...though we haven't really played together lately so I guess that's it.

smh

got anything to say about nutellagate?

What's a nutellagate? Is is a gate made of nutella? I feel that's too on the nose to be it. They are there. I don't recall their playstyle. I feel like I should know more about their music tastes from all the walrus' we've been in together.

They are an elephant in this room, but I don't feel like they are the loudest or most memorable one here.

[VOTE: owner] aubergine

say something game related or die

Owner's response to the prompt for a comment about nutella looks super uncomfortable. Nutella responds by prodding her to say something more substantive. That could easily be A Teammate prodding Another to lean into the distancing act, rather than avoiding it. In fact, I might be inclined to say that it is. If Owner is town, she is at least passively resisting the wagon on nutella. Why does Mafia Nutella respond to that by calling Town Owner out like this?

Spoiler: show

I'm not sure I've seen this version of nutella before, with this sort of flippant reception of suspicion/votes. Wack. I'm just gonna stare at these a while and let my brain sort:

Strong town
Jay
Sonny
Guillo
Tangy

Town leans
Gnome
Alison
Martin I guess sheeping alison
Dana
Mac
Sloonei
Hawk? Liked their style
Act maybe at this point

Gav Nook LC are more tbd
Dont remember anyone else

Going to sleep for like 12 hours gl

Oh I did put mac on that list huh. Must have felt stronger at the time, when i was comparing tangy's gth reads to my own mac was one of the harder ones

Both Jay and Mac are town here. Jay read super 100% confident, though I was already there before. But since this is easy to substantiate, I'll articulate it here in case anyone is still on the fence and somehow reading all of this: nutella is very much caught off guard by Jay digging this list up and waving it in front of her to highlight the contradictory nature of her handling of Mac at the present compared to a few hours earlier. Jay has caught nutella in an inconsistency. Nutella is flustered. They are never teammates in this exchange.

Spoiler: show

Oh I did put mac on that list huh. Must have felt stronger at the time, when i was comparing tangy's gth reads to my own mac was one of the harder ones

Please tell me about Gnome.

eh, I want more from her but her entry sounded more comfortable than not on a tonal level from what I know of her, even if she didn't really get into the game at all.

I have no clear read on Gnome here, but it exists. She was specifically prompted to justify a town-read on Gnome, and I have previously felt like that town-read looked good for Gnome, as a "too town to be suspected, so let's just move on" slot.

Spoiler: show

Not gonna lie, owner’s reads based on personality traits, anti-immigration sentiment and other non game related subjects is starting to ping me hard

Yeah I don't mind a few off topic comments but it's getting pretty excessive.

Wot

Like it's not banter she's pretending stuff is alignment indicative that is very not and it's jarring

Nutella is leaning more heavily into the Owner suspicion now, which could be a sign that they are not teammates. But the progression up to now has looked like potential distancing to me, and Owner's behavior in some of the posts nutella has criticized would be impossible not to criticize, tbh. nutella would look worse if she had produced a town-read on Owner here.

Spoiler: show

Owner has a unique way of looking at games, and it is typical of her to make reads on the basis of things most people would not. At face value that's fine.

What's problematic to me is that it doesn't seem to be leading somewhere yet, with the exception of some reads that I just don't think are appropriate (e.g. Tangy mafia for a questionnaire).

I thought the tangy one was actually one of the more intriguing ones, I want more from her on that

Not gonna lie, owner’s reads based on personality traits, anti-immigration sentiment and other non game related subjects is starting to ping me hard

Yeah I don't mind a few off topic comments but it's getting pretty excessive.

Wot

Like it's not banter she's pretending stuff is alignment indicative that is very not and it's jarring

Pretend they're onion soup reads

Its just her thing, and as we say

Everything is game related

Okay but she said upgaymers is a filler word so I can't take anything she says seriously

These two posts back-to-back gave me mild whiplash. "Owner's read on Tangy is intriguing, actually." 4 minutes elapse. "I can't take anything Owner says seriously."
At the very least, this is a bogus read on Owner. But we kind of already knew that.

Spoiler: show

love that like a third of the players aren't doing anything d1

i forgot LC was even in this game

nutella had previously listed LC as one of her three strongest suspects. If they are partners, I feel like she does not so easily forget Distancing Plan #1 ("call him a suspect") before initiating Distancing Plan #2 ("pretend to forget he exists"). Tentative good look for LC.

The rest of nutella's posts came in a flurry at the end of the phase when she had All The Votes, or during twilight. I'll dig into those separately if I feel like it, but for now I'm leaving this as it is.

Loose tier rankings based purely on this ISO, tiers not internally ranked:

Very Town
Jay
Guillotine
Tangy
Sonny

Largely Town
Mac
Gavial
Alison
Nanook
lost monkey
Gnome

A Little Town
Martin
Long Con
Dana

Suspect or Intriguing
Actvscenei
Owner

Not Enough To Form A Clear Read
Allcrab
bad bunny
Belzy
hawkataine
Kito
Made*
Seanzie

*Made was the counterwagon to nutella at the end of the day, and I have not reviewed her posts from that time yet.

[MacDougall]

I'm not sure I've seen this version of nutella before, with this sort of flippant reception of suspicion/votes. Wack. I'm just gonna stare at these a while and let my brain sort:

Strong town
Jay
Sonny
Guillo
Tangy

Town leans
Gnome
Alison
Martin I guess sheeping alison
Dana
Mac
Sloonei
Hawk? Liked their style
Act maybe at this point

Gav Nook LC are more tbd
Dont remember anyone else

Going to sleep for like 12 hours gl

Oh I did put mac on that list huh. Must have felt stronger at the time, when i was comparing tangy's gth reads to my own mac was one of the harder ones

If you want a post that spews Jay as town in relation to nutella, have this one.

damn it sloonei why you have to shut me down so hard

[Sloonei]

I'm not sure I've seen this version of nutella before, with this sort of flippant reception of suspicion/votes. Wack. I'm just gonna stare at these a while and let my brain sort:

Strong town
Jay
Sonny
Guillo
Tangy

Town leans
Gnome
Alison
Martin I guess sheeping alison
Dana
Mac
Sloonei
Hawk? Liked their style
Act maybe at this point

Gav Nook LC are more tbd
Dont remember anyone else

Going to sleep for like 12 hours gl

Oh I did put mac on that list huh. Must have felt stronger at the time, when i was comparing tangy's gth reads to my own mac was one of the harder ones

If you want a post that spews Jay as town in relation to nutella, have this one.

damn it sloonei why you have to shut me down so hard

Heavy is the head that wears the Best Mafia Player In The World crown.

[Gavial]

nutella continues talking to people

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: lost monkey] aubergine

you seem to be in neutral commentary mode, let's see some reads

Beep boop vote for lost monkey. Meh. This could very easily be a teammate prod. It could just as easily be an easy observation to direct toward a low key civilian.

Spoiler: show

Strong town
Jay
Sonny
Guillo
Tangy

Town leans
Gnome
Alison
Martin I guess sheeping alison
Dana
Mac
Sloonei
Hawk? Liked their style
Act maybe at this point

Gav Nook LC are more tbd
Dont remember anyone else

Going to sleep for like 12 hours gl

Juicy. A reads list. Sonny gets places in the "Strong Town" pile after appearing only once previously in this ISO, when nutella simply agreed with someone else's town read on them. I am inclined to say that's a good look for Sonny: sometimes mafia members will effortlessly adopt firm town reads on town players that are not suspected by anyone because there's no sense in pushing on them. I don't feel like nutella would place her teammate on such a high pedestal out of the blue like this.

Intriguing town leans: Gnome, Martin, Dana, Hawk, Act. Both Hawk and Act get slight quibbles, which is something I could see nutella attaching to a teammate. Martin also gets a caveat about sheeping Alison, but that's not as much of a concern. If Alison is town and nutella has assigned town-read status to her, she is almost forced to also assign a town-read to Martin.
Dana and Mac both came up a little bit earlier on in this ISO but with no firm conclusions. I have no immediate concerns about them here. I would not be surprised if there is at least one teammate in nutella's "town leans" pile.
Gavial, nanook, and Long Con all get suspicion hurled at them for no stated reason. Noted. I don't remember any notable mentions of or interactions with LC prior to this.

Spoiler: show

I think Act's posting has improved in recent times. I'm willing to give her some space and see how she uses it.

I liked her dismissive response to you asking for a read list tbh

Noting that nutella has now substantiated a town read on Act. Coolio.

Spoiler: show

Alison what do you think about lost monkey?

Prompts Alison to talk about lost monkey. Inclined to call that a good look for our monkey friend.

Spoiler: show

First date icebreaker question for everyone: what’s your favorite trip you’ve ever been on?

Disney World/Disney Cruises. And you?

Follow up, why did you choose to ask this particular question?

Hi!

To the PerC people and/or anyone else who wants to answer:

1) what do you think you bring to a game when you're town?
2) what do you hope to accomplish this game?

1. My town reads.
2. Win with town.

Finding someone genuine?


Unrelated, screw nested quotes. Really.

yeah lol

Not really the only reason no I just sort of generally toneread you as wolfy/found your approach disingenuous, starting with the dana read (bc again I'm a defender of hedginess and didn't see it your way). But as you've posted more it seems like that's just your style and you are poking in various places and have solvey intentions. I could move off you but don't know where

You could just unvote? There is no compulsion that a person needs to be voted. This I could move off you but don't know where stuff I don't buy it and seems fake. Leaning scum here.

Allison like an evolved form of alana lol.

Hello, I'm Tangy and this is my first mafia game.

Hi Tangy. This may be one of my final mafia games I play. I have been considering retirement. Not, to rain on the date though, I just feel as though I can't mod how I want to mod anymore, which is my main appeal to the game in the recent years.

Owner you should try modding games here owner. Some of the setup i have seen here are right up your alley.

What do you want me to expand?

If I didn't play a game before this one, I would been the same way as act and you on dana.

It'd be super to know what made you feel this way, and what playing a game before this one did to change your perspective.

The playstyles are mainly the reason if I have to say. Certain things which you guys see as townie are not seen as townie thing over there. Now lets take act what you guys saw stilted and acting scummie from act we consider as something normal from her. This is her playstyle this is how she plays regardless of alignment. Similarly to what you felt with gnome. I felt the same way when I saw syn, mac play. Dana coming in and saying i am nervous and stuff if i didnt see others play last game even i would have felt it was scummie.

Like my impression is most of LM's posts are comments on things that don't actually have bearing on the game itself, there's a couple like the discussion of act's style that could come close to giving a read but avoid actually doing so. There's a hint of a scumread on me, and some interaction with Jay and that's it. I feel like they're hesitant to actually get into the meat of the game.

Okay. By far the most substantial post in the first 24 hours of the game from nutella is a mini-case against lost monkey. That is a good look. This feels much more like "I have identified my Day 1 target and will begin pushing them here" rather than "I better start shading my partner."

Spoiler: show

I thought Owner was sort of off-topic/not into the game yet in a more similar way to Gnome (which I found townier than LM's borderline approach)

By contrast, here's a not-good look for Owner. And maybe a good look for Gnome? Owner starts to receive some heat, and nutella comes to her defense promptly, and cites another player (Gnome) whose style Owner is reminiscent of. It's possible that Gnome is town and nutella chose this particular association (Owner -> Gnome) so that the towny goodness of Gnome could be transmitted to Owner in turn. The unprompted dig at lost monkey is also another good look for them, and gives this post an air of slight anxiety: nutella wants attention on monkey and off of Owner.

Spoiler: show

......kito? wat why

This is in response to Guillo placing Kito in their list of Top 3 town reads. It's an easy question to ask. It might be easier if Kito really is town. But it's still easy even if Kito is nutella's partner. Meh.

Spoiler: show

Funny thing, when I woke up one of my first thoughts was I bet LoMo would be leading the votes and lol, here it is, should be fun to catch up. 2 is meh, but it tickles me that I saw that one coming.

do you have a read there?

Unless lost monkey specifically requested to be bussed Day 1, this is too aggressive to be distancing. I don't think that is likely.

Spoiler: show

Meh talk to me about belzy i dont have a good handle there

After several posts going back and forth with Guillo (town), nutella asks for some talk about Belzy. This is Belzy's first appearance in nutella's ISO. Neat.

Spoiler: show

@Alison So my comment about nutella's first post feels similar to the interesting tell. "Upgaymers" feels like a filler word. In a previous game on here I picked out Sloonei saying "spicy", which apparently people on here and MU both use. I'm trying to keep an open mind that it could very well be a community clash. But at the same time, it feels like it is something that wouldn't necessarily be said. I don't know if it could be too scummy to be scum or if the context of it is just this site players that commonly use words I'm not use to, which typing them feels of note, as it is uncommon for me to see it in game. But for me, it feels off. It's not directly aligned with a specific tell though.

wait this is the funniest thing ive ever seen

Does this read from Owner exist if they are partners? It was a bit goofy from the beginning. I don't know Owner well enough to say whether or not she would produce this read on her teammate. Nutella's response is nothing.

Spoiler: show

How does one catch Alison as scum anyway? This is not a rhetorical question.

I don't know. I think you need to explain her playstyle or look for patterns in her playstyle over time.

Huh

Why does this post exist

Why does this post exist?

Spoiler: show

not sure, how I feel about all the lomo votes...hmm...I'm not caught up. But it seems like I keep seeing PerC wagons as if we are unwelcomed on someone's home turf...adk

I really hate this AtE.

[VOTE: Owner] aubergine

It's not AtE. It's I see 4 votes on lomo that look steady or have been there for a period of time. Generally like 4 or 5 votes on someone is like there is probably scum in that wagon. Or it could mean like a cop check or something, but generally day 1 a wagon that size and potentially unmoving is kind of meh for me.

So from that point of view, I think he might be town, but I have yet to read his posts, so I don't know yet.

lalala dadv isnt real it cant hurt me

Owner objects to the monkey wagon, and nutella playfully shoots her objection down. Meh. I can go either way on this.

Spoiler: show

not sure, how I feel about all the lomo votes...hmm...I'm not caught up. But it seems like I keep seeing PerC wagons as if we are unwelcomed on someone's home turf...adk

I really hate this AtE.

[VOTE: Owner] aubergine

It's not AtE. It's I see 4 votes on lomo that look steady or have been there for a period of time. Generally like 4 or 5 votes on someone is like there is probably scum in that wagon. Or it could mean like a cop check or something, but generally day 1 a wagon that size and potentially unmoving is kind of meh for me.

So from that point of view, I think he might be town, but I have yet to read his posts, so I don't know yet.

"PerC players are being wagoned by unwelcoming Syndicate players" -> "This specific wagon on a PerC player is probably scum-driven because of its static nature" doesn't connect. If you don't like the LoMo wagon because there's no resistance, say so. Framing it as a PerC vs Syndicate thing reads as fishing for an appeal to emotion, and doesn't really make sense if your primary concern was the size and fluidity of the wagon. It does make sense if you have TMI on LoMo so I'm very happy to vote you.

mmmm spicy

At the very least, nutella is no longer uncomfortable with people talking about Owner. I still don't know if anything here suggests that they are not compatible though.
The way nutella is handling Alison looks very good for her.

Spoiler: show

Like mafia mac or nook could be pushing me because I'm not literally the top poster and they think they can look good for not just admitting I'm obv town already

But I'm not afraid of mac staying on me for more than like five minutes regardless of his alignment

I think nanook is just town here. I am more iffy on Mac, but this second post feels like it's meant to be a playful taunt to disarm Mac slightly. That would be a good indicator for him.

Spoiler: show

I feel like town nutella would be fiercer and less deflective here.

I'm torn about whether to vote Owner or nutella.

The people voting for me are mac, nanook, and guillo

I'm not concerned lol

I have deemed this response to be Fake. Nutella is concerned. She is concerned because all three of these people are town and their votes are Legit.

Spoiler: show

Hi!

To the PerC people and/or anyone else who wants to answer:

1) what do you think you bring to a game when you're town?
2) what do you hope to accomplish this game?

[VOTE: Tangy] aubergine Same reasons as voting for Sloonei...it's a tell. This questionnaire feels more agenda based than Sloonei's did. It feels like you are really looking to see where everyone is at. It's like you are specifically fishing for something. There is a motive behind this.

It kind of looks like you are trying to be on good graces, but to me it feels like you are searching for reasons to keep or not keep someone in the game. It is troublesome.

hmm

going for the big fish here eh

Not feisty enough.

Spoiler: show

I feel like town nutella would be fiercer and less deflective here.

I'm torn about whether to vote Owner or nutella.

The people voting for me are mac, nanook, and guillo

I'm not concerned lol

Why do the people voting you matter here?

for mac see my last post, for nanook and guillo basically I always expect us to suspect each other

It's always town in sonnydelphia.

Spoiler: show

Oooh, Nook isn't self voting anymore.

Owner, please just catch up. All this talk about not being caught up is shady.

I'm like not caught up most games. I don't get why people keep calling it that way when it happens like every game. It's like no one remembers this...though we haven't really played together lately so I guess that's it.

smh

got anything to say about nutellagate?

What's a nutellagate? Is is a gate made of nutella? I feel that's too on the nose to be it. They are there. I don't recall their playstyle. I feel like I should know more about their music tastes from all the walrus' we've been in together.

They are an elephant in this room, but I don't feel like they are the loudest or most memorable one here.

[VOTE: owner] aubergine

say something game related or die

Owner's response to the prompt for a comment about nutella looks super uncomfortable. Nutella responds by prodding her to say something more substantive. That could easily be A Teammate prodding Another to lean into the distancing act, rather than avoiding it. In fact, I might be inclined to say that it is. If Owner is town, she is at least passively resisting the wagon on nutella. Why does Mafia Nutella respond to that by calling Town Owner out like this?

Spoiler: show

I'm not sure I've seen this version of nutella before, with this sort of flippant reception of suspicion/votes. Wack. I'm just gonna stare at these a while and let my brain sort:

Strong town
Jay
Sonny
Guillo
Tangy

Town leans
Gnome
Alison
Martin I guess sheeping alison
Dana
Mac
Sloonei
Hawk? Liked their style
Act maybe at this point

Gav Nook LC are more tbd
Dont remember anyone else

Going to sleep for like 12 hours gl

Oh I did put mac on that list huh. Must have felt stronger at the time, when i was comparing tangy's gth reads to my own mac was one of the harder ones

Both Jay and Mac are town here. Jay read super 100% confident, though I was already there before. But since this is easy to substantiate, I'll articulate it here in case anyone is still on the fence and somehow reading all of this: nutella is very much caught off guard by Jay digging this list up and waving it in front of her to highlight the contradictory nature of her handling of Mac at the present compared to a few hours earlier. Jay has caught nutella in an inconsistency. Nutella is flustered. They are never teammates in this exchange.

Spoiler: show

Oh I did put mac on that list huh. Must have felt stronger at the time, when i was comparing tangy's gth reads to my own mac was one of the harder ones

Please tell me about Gnome.

eh, I want more from her but her entry sounded more comfortable than not on a tonal level from what I know of her, even if she didn't really get into the game at all.

I have no clear read on Gnome here, but it exists. She was specifically prompted to justify a town-read on Gnome, and I have previously felt like that town-read looked good for Gnome, as a "too town to be suspected, so let's just move on" slot.

Spoiler: show

Not gonna lie, owner’s reads based on personality traits, anti-immigration sentiment and other non game related subjects is starting to ping me hard

Yeah I don't mind a few off topic comments but it's getting pretty excessive.

Wot

Like it's not banter she's pretending stuff is alignment indicative that is very not and it's jarring

Nutella is leaning more heavily into the Owner suspicion now, which could be a sign that they are not teammates. But the progression up to now has looked like potential distancing to me, and Owner's behavior in some of the posts nutella has criticized would be impossible not to criticize, tbh. nutella would look worse if she had produced a town-read on Owner here.

Spoiler: show

Owner has a unique way of looking at games, and it is typical of her to make reads on the basis of things most people would not. At face value that's fine.

What's problematic to me is that it doesn't seem to be leading somewhere yet, with the exception of some reads that I just don't think are appropriate (e.g. Tangy mafia for a questionnaire).

I thought the tangy one was actually one of the more intriguing ones, I want more from her on that

Yeah I don't mind a few off topic comments but it's getting pretty excessive.

Wot

Like it's not banter she's pretending stuff is alignment indicative that is very not and it's jarring

Pretend they're onion soup reads

Its just her thing, and as we say

Everything is game related

Okay but she said upgaymers is a filler word so I can't take anything she says seriously

These two posts back-to-back gave me mild whiplash. "Owner's read on Tangy is intriguing, actually." 4 minutes elapse. "I can't take anything Owner says seriously."
At the very least, this is a bogus read on Owner. But we kind of already knew that.

Spoiler: show

love that like a third of the players aren't doing anything d1

i forgot LC was even in this game

nutella had previously listed LC as one of her three strongest suspects. If they are partners, I feel like she does not so easily forget Distancing Plan #1 ("call him a suspect") before initiating Distancing Plan #2 ("pretend to forget he exists"). Tentative good look for LC.

The rest of nutella's posts came in a flurry at the end of the phase when she had All The Votes, or during twilight. I'll dig into those separately if I feel like it, but for now I'm leaving this as it is.

Loose tier rankings based purely on this ISO, tiers not internally ranked:

Very Town
Jay
Guillotine
Tangy
Sonny

Largely Town
Mac
Gavial
Alison
Nanook
lost monkey
Gnome

A Little Town
Martin
Long Con
Dana

Suspect or Intriguing
Actvscenei
Owner

Not Enough To Form A Clear Read
Allcrab
bad bunny
Belzy
hawkataine
Kito
Made*
Seanzie

*Made was the counterwagon to nutella at the end of the day, and I have not reviewed her posts from that time yet.

IDK what Guill is thinking but like.....
The top town is the EXACT SAME as Nut’s.

[Gavial]

Nut (-) Sloon
Team?

[Gavial]

No but for real, I don’t buy it that all 4 of them are town.
I think 1 is scum Nut slipped into their list.

[Gavial]

Heck, maybe even 2.

[Sloonei]

I think there is a not uncommon tendency for mafiosos to list consensus town-players as their top town reads because there’s no use in spending energy trying to dislodge those players from their seats most of the time. What value would there have been in nutella trying to argue that Town Jay or Town Tangy were anything other than that? I would grant that Sonny was less emphatically town on Day 1 than those other two, but I still would apply that sentiment to them. I also thought nutella had some interactions with Sonny that looked like a wolf responding to a civilian.

[Sloonei]

No but for real, I don’t buy it that all 4 of them are town.
I think 1 is scum Nut slipped into their list.

You have arrived at the conversation Mac and I had a few minutes ago.

Also go review nutella’s responses to me at the end of Day 1 if you are beginning to entertain suspicion against me.

[Sloonei]

@Sonny thoughts on being in nutella’s town core?

[Seanzie]

@JaggedJimmyJay, what do you think of me right now?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think there is a not uncommon tendency for mafiosos to list consensus town-players as their top town reads because there’s no use in spending energy trying to dislodge those players from their seats most of the time. What value would there have been in nutella trying to argue that Town Jay or Town Tangy were anything other than that? I would grant that Sonny was less emphatically town on Day 1 than those other two, but I still would apply that sentiment to them. I also thought nutella had some interactions with Sonny that looked like a wolf responding to a civilian.

I agree in principle. I do think Sonny is a case that demands some caution though. The evidence is less substantive, we don't know the player as well, and from nutella's perspective there's less immediate cause to view Sonny's posture in the game as "too good to bother challenging".

I'll see how I feel in an interactive review.