Game Over! Monty Python and the Holy Grail

[Canucklehead]

Oops, forgot to add this.

Hey, all.
Just catching up and posting thoughts as I go.

1) I see Made has become the centre of Attention again. I am having a harder and harder time maintaining my earlier belief that he's just a whackadoodle civ. The main reason for this is because if I was on a baddie team with him, I'd be rejoicing because he's so successful at diverting the thread and keeping everyone's eyes just on him that it would allow his team a lot of freedom (and an easy distancing vote, if it came to that). Of course, the diversionary benefits still apply even if Made is a civ, so I'm back to square one. Basically, Made, if you are a civ, it might not be a bad idea to turn down the crazy and turn up the listening. There are an unknown number of baddies to find, and if you are a civ, you are currently distracting a lot of people from doing so.

Not that I disagree with your view on Made, in fact, I think it is quite apt. But you do have every right to ignore it and discuss/look elsewhere.

I do, and I did. In that very same post, even!

[Made]

As there seems to be some confusion, do to labor day weekend, the vote doesn't end tonight, it ends tomorrow.

[juliets]

Who made the case on Enrique? i want to look back at it to make sure I understand it. Even better, can someone summarize what it is about Enrique that is making people nervous?

[Made]

Who made the case on Enrique? i want to look back at it to make sure I understand it. Even better, can someone summarize what it is about Enrique that is making people nervous?

The only case (to my knowledge) made on Enrique during this day was mine which (intentionally) had no basis.

Intresting that so many others are saying they distrust him all of the suddent...

[Mister Rearranger]

I voiced uneasiness about him on Day 1, iirc. I forget whose post I was responding to though. Gimme til I get to work and I'll dig it up.

Epi's thoughts today touched on some things that I'd been pondering as well.

[Made]

I take back my post(well partly) MM had an arguement against Enrique.

[Mister Rearranger]

Nvm, here it is:

My only experience in the challenge room was that juliets was very helpful and willing to collaborate on ideas about the challenge. I'ma have to use posts for the rest of my context since I wasn't there for long.

Lnki: I agree with your assessment of MP, Bullz.

I'd like to reread what the Made voters have said as well as the MP voters and go from there.

Linki: I disagree on Enrique though. He's closer to the less trusting side of the "unsure" zone right now...

Not a case, as I planned on voting for MP anyways.

Thoughts are forthcoming though, if/when I get some free time at work.

[Long Con]

Yeah Made, I didn't play Misfits but i read enough of it to know your playstyle is whack. Nevertheless, I agree with Bullz. I have also started to wonder if you are making up these wild theories to keep the eye away from others. I have believed in your civviness but I am starting to have doubts or as Bullz brings up maybe I'm just confused by you. I know I'm confused by some of those theories.

Hmm...

Ping. I don't buy the "keep the eye away from others" thing. Sounds contrived. Then add "I'm confused" and it's more suspicious to me.

[Made]

Epi's thoughts today touched on some things that I'd been pondering as well.

What specifically, I'm curious exactly what part of his post spoke to you.

[juliets]

Yeah Made, I didn't play Misfits but i read enough of it to know your playstyle is whack. Nevertheless, I agree with Bullz. I have also started to wonder if you are making up these wild theories to keep the eye away from others. I have believed in your civviness but I am starting to have doubts or as Bullz brings up maybe I'm just confused by you. I know I'm confused by some of those theories.

Hmm...

Ping. I don't buy the "keep the eye away from others" thing. Sounds contrived. Then add "I'm confused" and it's more suspicious to me.

That's interesting. Maybe I didn't say it right. I have started wondering if some of the things made has said have been attention getters, to pull us away from others who may be bad. Also, I don't think I've fully understood one theory made has put out there. I may understand part of it but usually there is a line or two i don't understand. I'm not saying a general "I'm confused" or even a general "I'm confused about everything made has said". But I am confused by some of it, which is what I thought I said.

[DisgruntledPorcupine]

Keterman is now replacing Black Rock.

He cannot be targeted at night and Black Rock cannot be voted on the poll.

[Made]

Keterman is now replacing Black Rock.

He cannot be targeted at night and Black Rock cannot be voted on the poll.

Oh god, not this kid....

[Long Con]

Yeah Made, I didn't play Misfits but i read enough of it to know your playstyle is whack. Nevertheless, I agree with Bullz. I have also started to wonder if you are making up these wild theories to keep the eye away from others. I have believed in your civviness but I am starting to have doubts or as Bullz brings up maybe I'm just confused by you. I know I'm confused by some of those theories.

Hmm...

Ping. I don't buy the "keep the eye away from others" thing. Sounds contrived. Then add "I'm confused" and it's more suspicious to me.

That's interesting. Maybe I didn't say it right. I have started wondering if some of the things made has said have been attention getters, to pull us away from others who may be bad. Also, I don't think I've fully understood one theory made has put out there. I may understand part of it but usually there is a line or two i don't understand. I'm not saying a general "I'm confused" or even a general "I'm confused about everything made has said". But I am confused by some of it, which is what I thought I said.

So, you think Made and his baddie teammates have a plan where the rest of them escape suspicion through Made's demand for attention? Made is just a sacrificial lamb in the hopes that his team won't get suspicion because of it?

I don't really think that's credible. Ping remains on Juliets.

[juliets]

That's not exactly what i was thinking. I was thinking Made is acting the way he is because people will tend to ascribe it to "the way he plays". Thus, you can have a baddie who seems like - based on other play - that they are civ. Maybe there is something wrong with my thinking on this issue but it makes sense in my mind.

[Made]

My computer keeps crashing. As soon as I can stay on long enough to post, I will.

[Mister Rearranger]

Epi's thoughts today touched on some things that I'd been pondering as well.

What specifically, I'm curious exactly what part of his post spoke to you.

His skepticism of Enrique and DF's interactions, not to mention how wavering DF was on you and Enrique.

I feel like there are ties somewhere between some combination of DF, Jules, Enrique, and/or yourself.

And the following post stood out for sure:

I have no idea whether Made has BTSC. Do we really have to go over this every other post? I simply don't buy your case. I could argue all you've said is "I think Made has BTSC," and similarly, I'd say that's based on nothing.

Maybe, just maybe, llama, you should try to be a bit less vague. Get stuff out of the way. Something like telling Made "Hey, I did ask you if you had teammates, but only after you got weird about it." Emitting that sorta shit doesn't help anybody, except you if you ever needed to backpedal. No, making it seem like he's straight up lying from the very beginning only makes him a likelier lynch candidate. You've got your mind set on lynching Made for hardly any reason, and nobody can do anything to change that.

Now, now boys.

I think Llama has been very consistent. I also believe Mades defense. Therefore I am moving on from this.

Reading other things now.

Thank you! I am sick of talking about this. I have said everything I have to say on the issue, and I have no new information, so I welcome the chance to move on and discuss other things.

OK, if you want that, you know what's a good idea? Bringing other names to the table, instead of simply saying "let's not discuss this anymore because he's bad and that's final," as if that was good enough for everyone.

I'm open to watching a case get picked apart and hearing contrasting opinions, but I would be interested to see if Enrique can practice what he preaches here and bring other names to the table. Because all I've seen is him acting as arbiter between Made and various people. Maybe as a protective teammate? Maybe for vindication if Made were lynched and was civ? Maybe just out of his defensive nature (I recall Enrique being quite scrappy and holding his own in LP games )? Of that, I can't be sure.

[juliets]

I feel like there are ties somewhere between some combination of DF, Jules, Enrique, and/or yourself.

There are no ties between me and anyone. I can understand where you might think there is a tie between me and DF (because DF stood up to say he's the same as I am early in games and he's right) even though you are wrong, but I don't know where anyone is getting ties with me and anyone else.

[Made]

if you are making up these wild theories to keep the eye away from others.

If I were still playing my unorthodox way, I'd post a list of everyone I've mentioned this game and everyone I haven't, but since that would be considered "wacky" someone else can do it for me .

Speaking of which, I would like to propose a challenge, anyone who says my theories are wacky and make no sense, hmu. I will address every "wild" theory to the point of over explanation if requested.

Now for my reads.

As of now my two main people of suspect are JC and MR. Due to my theories apparently being distracting, nonsensical, illogical, etcetc, I will not provide speculation on these post.

It's funny, while I was trying to post this on my computer(this was all typed from my phone) MR did me a solid and gave me a new top suspious post.

I would be interested to see if Enrique can practice what he preaches here and bring other names to the table. Because all I've seen is him acting as arbiter between Made and various people. Maybe as a protective teammate? Maybe for vindication if Made were lynched and was civ? Maybe just out of his defensive nature (I recall Enrique being quite scrappy and holding his own in LP games )? Of that, I can't be sure.

As for juliets

MR -
So you non-nonchalantly left us, 3 of us, on our own to do that whole challenge? Do you know how hard that was? So really what I get out of what you're saying is you didn't care - you had no desire to help the team out. This explanation just doesn't help me with my uneasiness about you. I think there is a fair chance you not only didn't care you planned to not help us after you checked out who was there and saw we were not your teammates. No one else who was part of our group did this and some people like bwt and mp came in as soon as they could after they found out about the event. So bottom line, you intentionally didn't help us and as a result we struggled and ended up here. I am uneasy about you so you get my vote today -

votes MR

Also the fact that epi got so little shit for his super vague post, but I stare down the barrel of a gun for making a "genuine effort to scum hunt" ,as the kids say, really pisses me the fuck off.

[juliets]

Made you posted a post of mine but didn't make any comment. What is it you were trying to say about that post (the post was about MR).

Also, why do you suspect me? You never explained that last time - you just said "accountability" which meant nothing. Why you suspect me is not speculation it is you presenting evidence for why I am bad. You seem to be trying everything you can to avoid explaining. Do you not have a real reason?

[Mister Rearranger]

I made Made's shortlist! If I had known that all it took to garner your suspicion was reference Enrique and you, I would have done so waaaay earlier in the thread.

So, is Epi suspicious to you too then?

[Hedgeowl]

Hey all, i am still here, but i am having too much fun with llama's nieces. (Seriously this new baby is a perfect sleepy cute bundle) I'll check in tonight.

I havent read anything in over 24 hours sorry.

[Made]

I made Made's shortlist! If I had known that all it took to garner your suspicion was reference Enrique and you, I would have done so waaaay earlier in the thread.

So, is Epi suspicious to you too then?

Nah, just those who think Epi points are logical, but also think my theories are wild and whacky

[Mister Rearranger]

EBWOP @Juliets: Duly noted. Keep in mind I stated "some combination" and did not say what I thought the nature of those ties were.

I see Hedge is back and would love to see some posts from her if she'd be so kind. Doublelinki: oh, a'ight then... >.<

THE LEGENDARY TRIPLE LINKI: Have I said anything about your theories being wild and wacky? Everyone's wild and wacky here. It's a lovely place. I can say I disagree with his "Name 3 people and one of them is bound to be a teammate" rule of thumb; but in a broader sense, I do feel there is relevance in the names that DF dropped before he was NKed, especially since he was in no danger of suspicion at the time of his demise.

[Made]

Why you suspect me is not speculation it is you presenting evidence for why I am bad. You seem to be trying everything you can to avoid explaining. Do you not have a real reason?

Pretty colors on dark backgrounds!

As someone who also takes awhile to get going in games, I can't be too harsh towards JC. I don't really have strong opinions yet either, and she seems genuine enough to me. I also don't know what to make of the Made/Llama thing, so I'll just...

*vote MR* because why not.

The JC(that's Juliet right?) comment is intresting, but to defend a teammate like this seems like a really bad move? As a counterarguement, was anyone else defending her? Maybe he felt he needed to speak up for the sake of her longevity. Also, Probably voted MR for a reason.

[/quote]

And

MR -
So you non-nonchalantly left us, 3 of us, on our own to do that whole challenge? Do you know how hard that was? So really what I get out of what you're saying is you didn't care - you had no desire to help the team out. This explanation just doesn't help me with my uneasiness about you. I think there is a fair chance you not only didn't care you planned to not help us after you checked out who was there and saw we were not your teammates. No one else who was part of our group did this and some people like bwt and mp came in as soon as they could after they found out about the event. So bottom line, you intentionally didn't help us and as a result we struggled and ended up here. I am uneasy about you so you get my vote today -

votes MR

This one.

Thats MR not MP. And what do you find suspicious about this post?

While I agree that we were short on people and disorganized and things were chaotic, this just seemed to come out of no where.

And

Indepth read of Juliet-
Very early on put on the defensive by a joke (that im pretty sure llama said) but previous to that, the only thing of substance she said was reiterating SVS's No Lynch is a bad idea Remark.

I'm starting to come to the realization that responding to all arguements/points that anyone makes towards you is a very easy way to avoid suspision.

Noted for when i actually am mafia :P (read on Movingpicture incoming)

Linki- I haven't met you either, hello Dfareday!

Thought about Juliet further. The fact that she was put on the defensive so easily with so little accusations or theories is pretty intresting. While it could be interpreted as on the defensive, it could also be interpreted as not posting to slide under the radar, and appearing to make sure that all thoughts against her are surpressed. Is she normally this jumpy?

linki- oh, read DH, yeah, DP and Roxy are my dudes.

So yeah... I think I've been pretty specific...

[Mister Rearranger]

In all that, I forgot to welcome Keterman too!

And a belated twirling hi to LoRab!

[Marmot]

I made Made's shortlist! If I had known that all it took to garner your suspicion was reference Enrique and you, I would have done so waaaay earlier in the thread.

So, is Epi suspicious to you too then?

I dunno how you did that. I already made an argument about those two yesterday, and Made merely acknowledged it.

I think Made has mentioned Epi twice now for suspicion, but Epi hasn't been around to respond. I think he's camping until tomorrow.

Linki: Also, welcome Keterman. I don't know why Made doesn't seem to like you though.

[juliets]

Made: Thought about Juliet further. The fact that she was put on the defensive so easily with so little accusations or theories is pretty intresting. While it could be interpreted as on the defensive, it could also be interpreted as not posting to slide under the radar, and appearing to make sure that all thoughts against her are surpressed. Is she normally this jumpy?

I missed this post earlier in the game. I do defend myself when people say untrue things about me. I don't know anyone who doesn't do that. I also don't understand how if it is not interpreted as defensive it could be interpreted as not posting to slide under the radar and appearing to make sure that all thoughts against her are suppressed. Since the only way I can defend myself is to post, how can my posting be interpreted as not posting, i.e., sliding under the radar?? And just because I speak up when someone brings up my name as being bad that does not mean I am trying to suppress thought about me. That would be absurd. People will have any thoughts about me they want to have. I am however trying to show them that I am civ - isn't that what everyone does when they are accused?

Also welcome Keterman - I must have missed the post that announced that you had replaced in. Also welcome to Lorab! Good to see you again.

[Mister Rearranger]

I made Made's shortlist! If I had known that all it took to garner your suspicion was reference Enrique and you, I would have done so waaaay earlier in the thread.

I dunno how you did that. I already made an argument about those two yesterday, and Made merely acknowledged it.

Also, yeah I remember him and Eloh saying they'd be camping.

[bea]

boo we lost BR
Yay we got Keter!

MR - it's a fairly solid point that Enrique Suave hasn't brought much to the table besides being the buffer on the whole llama/made gate thing then defending said position. That said, he's got a lot of heat over it so I can see where he may be more focused on defending than on looking for new stuffs. I would like to hear his thoughts on others as well.

Made - I'm trying to understand all your points. I really am. Sometimes even without the wine, I'm just really dense. I'm going to rephrase the jist of your suspicion on JC to see if I've got it right - please let me know if I do:

So, you suspect JC because she seemed overly defensive about both MR's leaving the team hanging in the challenge as well as her involvement in backing/not backing you up when llama was questioning you. Do I have the jist of it? Am I missing something regarding JC?

I have to admit, I'm not sure at all what you find suspicious about MR or Bullz. If you could explain the jist of it to me like the thick headed, non-caffinated idiot I am at the moment that would rock my world.

FWIW, Made, I totally saw what Epi was saying about MP on Day 1, but I can get your frustration with his post on Day 2. Sometimes he explains things in ways I can understand them, sometimes he's more vague. I think it's the teacher part of him that wants me to expand my mind and learn some logic or something.

In general:

It will be nice to hear more from Hedgey - I know that she kinda turned my head at the end of day 1, but it wasn't a hard enough turn of my head to make me want to vote for her. I'd like to hear what she has to say this phase.

LC and SVS are starting to get to the point in my brainz where I'm having a hard time caring about the more nitty-picky parts of their back and forth. I understand what LC was saying in general. I don't agree with him.

I think that's about it for now. I will prolly vote before bed tonight as I have to work at stoopid o'clock in the morning tomorrow and I have a 2600 dollar supply truck to put away on a holiday - I expect to be pretty freekin' busy.

linki - LOL MR.

Yes - he and eloh and the kids went camping. I suspect he's teaching deer how to diagram sentences. :rimshot:

[juliets]

I'm going to be unavailable from about 15 minutes from now until somewhere around 10:00 tonight. I just didnt want anyone to think i'm ignoring the thread.

[bea]

JC. Mafia's way better than that other thing you've got going on.

[Marmot]

llama hasn't posted today after almost 48 hours. I'm going to go out on a very short limb and guess that he's been silenced.

Now that makes me wonder who'd have done it.

[Mister Rearranger]

Oh jeez, I didn't even take notice of that!

[Made]

llama hasn't posted today after almost 48 hours. I'm going to go out on a very short limb and guess that he's been silenced.

Now that makes me wonder who'd have done it.

Would it be logical to think the reason he was silenced was to make it seem as if someone who is civvie is guilty?

I mean you're not gonna mute someone because they're on to you. I mean, come day 3 llama would come forward and just continue talking.

As an alternative theory what if llama has a role that allows him to visit people and he visited someone who silences you for the day.

Also because I never responded to bea- yeah pretty much, she seemed too denfensive too fast, and then her remark about MR seemed to come out of no where. Her hesistation to talk about made/llama seemed kinda off.

[Mongoose]

Made, that's a very creative explanation, but my guess is it's something more straightforward and someone silenced him on Night 1.

It's probably killing him to be silent. I love it.

Let's all say lots of things he'd want to respond to but can't.

Day 2 is seeming so long. Anyone else?

[Made]

quotes are hard, responces are colorful

Made, that's a very creative explanation, but my guess is it's something more straightforward and someone silenced him on Night 1.
my theory 1 covers this. I just skipped to figuring out why he might of been silenced.
Day 2 is seeming so long. Anyone else?it's a three day "day" rather than 2 because labor day.

[Marmot]

llama hasn't posted today after almost 48 hours. I'm going to go out on a very short limb and guess that he's been silenced.

Now that makes me wonder who'd have done it.

Would it be logical to think the reason he was silenced was to make it seem as if someone who is civvie is guilty?

I mean you're not gonna mute someone because they're on to you. I mean, come day 3 llama would come forward and just continue talking.

As an alternative theory what if llama has a role that allows him to visit people and he visited someone who silences you for the day.

I actually don't think you did it, for that exact reason. Why do you assume that? Anyway, I'm trying to think of who else would, that is where I am becoming confused.

And to your thought that he visited someone and was silenced, that not only implies that he has a proactive role, but that there is another role that silences visitors. I've never seen such a role exist before, so I don't believe it is a role used in this game.

[Mongoose]

I'm hesitant to speculate further because the hosts have made the guidelines clear and I don't want to overstep that.

Since he was silenced on Night 1, it could have been anyone for very little reason. Some people might not use their power, but something like silencing has very little repercussions if you use it "wrong" so there might not even be much of a reason to truffle out.

[Mister Rearranger]

Hmm, I'm leaving my vote on Eko (Enrique) for now.

[Made]

llama hasn't posted today after almost 48 hours. I'm going to go out on a very short limb and guess that he's been silenced.

Now that makes me wonder who'd have done it.

Would it be logical to think the reason he was silenced was to make it seem as if someone who is civvie is guilty?

I mean you're not gonna mute someone because they're on to you. I mean, come day 3 llama would come forward and just continue talking.

As an alternative theory what if llama has a role that allows him to visit people and he visited someone who silences you for the day.

I actually don't think you did it, for that exact reason. Why do you assume that? Anyway, I'm trying to think of who else would, that is where I am becoming confused.

And to your thought that he visited someone and was silenced, that not only implies that he has a proactive role, but that there is another role that silences visitors. I've never seen such a role exist before, so I don't believe it is a role used in this game.

Hmm, I figured it was a pretty common role, Ik this was a role in misfits, the current felt game, and in mp's hip hop game. I have a very small pool of games to draw from.

[S~V~S]

llama hasn't posted today after almost 48 hours. I'm going to go out on a very short limb and guess that he's been silenced.

Now that makes me wonder who'd have done it.

Would it be logical to think the reason he was silenced was to make it seem as if someone who is civvie is guilty?

I mean you're not gonna mute someone because they're on to you. I mean, come day 3 llama would come forward and just continue talking.

As an alternative theory what if llama has a role that allows him to visit people and he visited someone who silences you for the day.

I actually don't think you did it, for that exact reason. Why do you assume that? Anyway, I'm trying to think of who else would, that is where I am becoming confused.

And to your thought that he visited someone and was silenced, that not only implies that he has a proactive role, but that there is another role that silences visitors. I've never seen such a role exist before, so I don't believe it is a role used in this game.

i had a role once that insanified visitors; anyone who targeted that role was blocked and was insanified. I got it from an Epicmafia Wiki, it was called "Cthulhu" in their role list. I adapted it for this style of Mafia.

Will catch back up to today in a bit.

[S~V~S]

Linki, yeah, Alisha in the Misfits had a role like that, i believe.

[Marmot]

Linki, yeah, Alisha in the Misfits had a role like that, i believe.

I see now. I've never seen that role before.

[S~V~S]

FWIW, discussing who silenced who and why is a total exercise in WIFOM. I have silenced people who suspected me as a baddie, and when people would say, "Hey that silenced person suspects SVS", I would say, "Right, and that's why I would never silence them cause it's too obvious". I have silenced people to frame other people, to shut them up if the suspected a teammate. It really could be anything. There could be a role like Alisha, or there could be a civvie silencer.

Civvie silencers generally silence in order to protect, not always, but often.

[Made]

FWIW, discussing who silenced who and why is a total exercise in WIFOM. I have silenced people who suspected me as a baddie, and when people would say, "Hey that silenced person suspects SVS", I would say, "Right, and that's why I would never silence them cause it's too obvious". I have silenced people to frame other people, to shut them up if the suspected a teammate. It really could be anything. There could be a role like Alisha, or there could be a civvie silencer.

Civvie silencers generally silence in order to protect, not always, but often.

So I just googled what WIFOM means. Does WIFOM have a positive or negative conntation or neither?

As for the situation in front of us, I think you're on to something by trying to determine motives to figure out who it was

If to protect (via civvie)- No idea who it might be, he seemed pretty safe from being lynched.
If to deflect- It's someone who wants me dead.....actually let's roll with this one.... Everyone knows that i play a very unorthodox game. That's kinda my thing. Maybe the goal is to convince civvie i'm the type to put the wine infront of myself? So whoever muted Llama (by this logic) is a mafia who wants me dead.
If to really fucking deflect- Mafia is pretending that Llama is muted to give him some civvie cred.

I personally find my second point, to deflect, the most likely.

[S~V~S]

WIFOM, wine in front of me, from Princess Bride. The scene with Westley 7 the Sicilian, determining which cup has the poison.

A circular argument, would have could have, kind of thing.

[S~V~S]

*Westley & the Sicilian

[S~V~S]

[Made]

Yeah, I remember this scene. loved this movie

Regardless, do people just avoid thinking about WIFOMs or do they attempt to cypher the circular logic?

[S~V~S]

Circular arguments just drive you insane, but everyone tries to figure it out anyhow