PSY 2310 - Cognitive Psychology [END]

[outed wolf]

[VOTE: outed wolf] aubergine

et tu, brute?

[Hally]

hallys posts are wolfy

so they must be a villager imo

i mean, you’re not wrong

[dyachei]

Alison's post wasn't super great - where she basically accused people of trying to get an easy mis-elim on nutella. Not necessarily because it's within the first 3 hours, but because it feels like TMI on nut. But lets say I'm wrong there...she still left the thread shortly after with no other insight. The alison i know usually has other thoughts on the game.

You're right, I usually have more thoughts on the game. I don't this game though. I opened up by saying I had no reads which is pretty unusual for me.

i dunno how to feel about this response

@Hally I have played games with him in the distant past but none soon

He's not doing anything which is antitown regardless of alignment

[Alison]

I think Marluxion and Vulgard are both town. outed wolf's outrage over my take on nutella's wagon is I think genuine indication that he feels it was legit. I find Amy null but am willing to sheep thread consensus on her for today. nutella is lock town. That leaves the rest of the game in the POE. If I wanted to stretch I could give Hally a townread on tone as well.

[Alison]

Alison's post wasn't super great - where she basically accused people of trying to get an easy mis-elim on nutella. Not necessarily because it's within the first 3 hours, but because it feels like TMI on nut. But lets say I'm wrong there...she still left the thread shortly after with no other insight. The alison i know usually has other thoughts on the game.

You're right, I usually have more thoughts on the game. I don't this game though. I opened up by saying I had no reads which is pretty unusual for me.

what about this game has been particularly difficult for you to parse?

i think we can both agree that you typically have very strong opinions on mafia and i'm just as surprised as you are at your lack of reads, if not moreso

No clue tbh.

If you put a gun to my head and asked for an explanation, I could theorize that a lot of the dynamic/solving this game has been based on meta and history between members of the thread that I don't have access to. More likely it's just an offgame. Those happen sometimes.

[Alison]

I don't know how to put this gently so I am just going to ask if you are all aware that Gavial is Seththeking and that being anti-town is NAI for him.

[Hally]

dya’s posts don’t seem as wolfy as the org game but i don’t think they’re villagery either

you didnt think i was villagery on d1 of CoV either

right, which is why i’ve mostly been leaving you alone and letting you do your thing

[dyachei]

I don't know how to put this gently so I am just going to ask if you are all aware that Gavial is Seththeking and that being anti-town is NAI for him.

im aware and am not voting him

im trrying to determine if he's a wolf because he's supposed to be relatively easy to read

[c4e5g3d5]

dya v for thinking the scumreads on them are unfair

[Alison]

Gonna back off the Alison villa lean with a few people telling me they have that slot as null.

can you elaborate what you mean by this?

[Amy]

I don't know how to put this gently so I am just going to ask if you are all aware that Gavial is Seththeking and that being anti-town is NAI for him.

fully aware, still voting

debating whether to elaborate or not. i THINK i figured out a meta tell for him but i don't want to give him the answer key lol

[outed wolf]

i think perhaps the tone of my posts hasn't been the most obvious so:

im not outraged over the nutella stuff lol a lot of playing that is for comedic effect

the thing with nutella isnt that i thought the wagon was pure or well reasoned but that i thought it seemed obv that most of the pushes were extremely light and really early in the day, to be thinking hey these people are trying to push this wagon through. thats a thought you can have maybe halfway through the day but a couple hours into d1 with v little talk about reads and mostly jokes/lighter posting it seemed weird to take it ultra seriously

[Hally]

few things:

1) think nutellas knee jerk reaction (and it is a knee jerk imo - seems obv and the justification locks it in) to a tangrowth push is probably the villageriest thing she has going for her. spf is obv right on nutellas posts earlier (just wanted to note this for posterity). i understand the emotion reads but i feel they are kinda lame and assume that nutella cant get annoyed as a wolf.

2) gavial votes, my understanding of their play means they (votes) seem fine but obv see how it plays out

3) dont think the tangrowth push by arete is wolfy and i understand how someone could get there, i entertained a brief push there earlier but i believe it is more likely to be tangrowth getting into ww after being out for a bit regardless of alignmnet (though i dont fault anyone for not buyin that)

4) go rams

5) if that alison post is real and not just haha faking xd its bizarre. like just straight up you cannot believe that as a villager

I think this post is decently townie.

that was the visor post that gave me “reasonable wolf” vibes

i.e. perfectly fine things that don’t really go anywhere and are easy to say

[staypositivefriend]

I don't know how to put this gently so I am just going to ask if you are all aware that Gavial is Seththeking and that being anti-town is NAI for him.

do you see a difference between the way that gavial played in the bluesey game that we just finished and the way that gavial has played in this game so far?

if so, then do you think the difference is alignment indicative?

i have no baseline for how gavial plays as a wolf. i don't care how gavial plays as a wolf either. he was obviously town in our last game and he has not towntold once in this game

[Alison]

I don't know how to put this gently so I am just going to ask if you are all aware that Gavial is Seththeking and that being anti-town is NAI for him.

im aware and am not voting him

im trrying to determine if he's a wolf because he's supposed to be relatively easy to read

My take on Gavial's meta is that when he's town half the time he's really obvious town and half the time he's indistinguishable from his wolf meta.

Some people have proposed that if his logic is too sound or if his reads aren't wacky and weird enough he's scum but I don't have a big enough sample size to affirm that (and I have used that very "tell" as a way to frame him when I was mafia and he was town).

I think when Gavial is falling into that segment of his meta where he's indistinguishable from his wolf meta he's actually not very easy to read, and he certainly is in that place right now. I think Gavial is like ~rand atp and the votes on him for being anti town are kinda lazy.

[staypositivefriend]

[VOTE: outed wolf] aubergine

et tu, brute?

i dont really have a sense of where your head is at or how youre looking at the game, and i was hoping that voting you would magically make it clearer to me

[outed wolf]

you cant push through a cheap misexe a couple hours into d1 i mean

(and esp probably in this playerlist lol)

[Hally]

i think nutella is a villager regardless of hally's alignment

i don’t know if this is because “hally wouldn’t be wrong on nut regardless of their alignment” or not but in case it is, i don’t really like when people sheep my reads on nutella or anyone really because then i feel more pressure to be correct and start second guessing myself even though realistically i’m probably correct on her

[outed wolf]

"I think when Gavial is falling into that segment of his meta where he's indistinguishable from his wolf meta he's actually not very easy to read, and he certainly is in that place right now. I think Gavial is like ~rand atp and the votes on him for being anti town are kinda lazy."

i am worrieed about this too

he certainly hasnt done anything of note this game which means he is probably either a wolf or not give a shit territory and deciding between those is difficult

[Alison]

i.e. perfectly fine things that don’t really go anywhere and are easy to say

I haven't played with Visor at all apart from Stardew Valley where he posted mostly in GIFs and was in a hydra anyway.

What are your thoughts on my argument that his mindset wrt the nutella wagon has TMI-ed himself as town?

[staypositivefriend]

i'm not voting gavial for being anti-town. he can be anti-town all he wants. i'm voting gavial for being wolfy. i am willing to listen if people feel that he's still within his village meta or if they feel that he's rand, but i dont get why youre framing the votes on gavial as being about gavial being "anti-town" when they're actually about gavial being wolfy

[Amy]

i think nutella is a villager regardless of hally's alignment

i don’t know if this is because “hally wouldn’t be wrong on nut regardless of their alignment” or not but in case it is, i don’t really like when people sheep my reads on nutella or anyone really because then i feel more pressure to be correct and start second guessing myself even though realistically i’m probably correct on her

i'm already townreading nutella, if you're town that bolsters that, if you're wolfing i think it's tmi

shrug

[Alison]

you cant push through a cheap misexe a couple hours into d1 i mean

(and esp probably in this playerlist lol)

I have done so many times.

[outed wolf]

few things:

1) think nutellas knee jerk reaction (and it is a knee jerk imo - seems obv and the justification locks it in) to a tangrowth push is probably the villageriest thing she has going for her. spf is obv right on nutellas posts earlier (just wanted to note this for posterity). i understand the emotion reads but i feel they are kinda lame and assume that nutella cant get annoyed as a wolf.

2) gavial votes, my understanding of their play means they (votes) seem fine but obv see how it plays out

3) dont think the tangrowth push by arete is wolfy and i understand how someone could get there, i entertained a brief push there earlier but i believe it is more likely to be tangrowth getting into ww after being out for a bit regardless of alignmnet (though i dont fault anyone for not buyin that)

4) go rams

5) if that alison post is real and not just haha faking xd its bizarre. like just straight up you cannot believe that as a villager

I think this post is decently townie.

that was the visor post that gave me “reasonable wolf” vibes

i.e. perfectly fine things that don’t really go anywhere and are easy to say

thats all my posts nerd

[Alison]

i'm not voting gavial for being anti-town. he can be anti-town all he wants. i'm voting gavial for being wolfy. i am willing to listen if people feel that he's still within his village meta or if they feel that he's rand, but i dont get why youre framing the votes on gavial as being about gavial being "anti-town" when they're actually about gavial being wolfy

Because I'm hearing people like dya say that he's anti-town, and I think Gavial is rand. So I put in my two cents about Gavial's meta.

[Hally]

I think Marluxion and Vulgard are both town. outed wolf's outrage over my take on nutella's wagon is I think genuine indication that he feels it was legit. I find Amy null but am willing to sheep thread consensus on her for today. nutella is lock town. That leaves the rest of the game in the POE. If I wanted to stretch I could give Hally a townread on tone as well.

i don’t think my tone has been villagery and if anything i’m coming across more flat than usual because i’m really tired today

plus tone is a bad way to read me in general because i have good tone as a wolf

so this read on me is a bit weird

[Hally]

dya v for thinking the scumreads on them are unfair

dya would have that reaction as a wolf too

[staypositivefriend]

i'm not voting gavial for being anti-town. he can be anti-town all he wants. i'm voting gavial for being wolfy. i am willing to listen if people feel that he's still within his village meta or if they feel that he's rand, but i dont get why youre framing the votes on gavial as being about gavial being "anti-town" when they're actually about gavial being wolfy

Because I'm hearing people like dya say that he's anti-town, and I think Gavial is rand. So I put in my two cents about Gavial's meta.

sure, it's just that the wording you used in https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 25#p798825 made it sound like you perceived the majority of suspicion against gavial to be about him being "anti-town", when, iirc, dyachei is the only person that's echoed that specific sentiment. it struck me as a little weird but i think that you have a lot of personal experience with gavial and have probably seen him get fos'd for being "anti-town" a lot regardless of his alignment, so i can see you feasibly feeling the need to defend him regardless of your alignment

[dyachei]

i'm not voting gavial for being anti-town. he can be anti-town all he wants. i'm voting gavial for being wolfy. i am willing to listen if people feel that he's still within his village meta or if they feel that he's rand, but i dont get why youre framing the votes on gavial as being about gavial being "anti-town" when they're actually about gavial being wolfy

Because I'm hearing people like dya say that he's anti-town, and I think Gavial is rand. So I put in my two cents about Gavial's meta.

im also not voting there though?

[staypositivefriend]

here's a bold and innovative read: i have no idea what hally's alignment is

[Hally]

I don't know how to put this gently so I am just going to ask if you are all aware that Gavial is Seththeking and that being anti-town is NAI for him.

im aware and am not voting him

im trrying to determine if he's a wolf because he's supposed to be relatively easy to read

My take on Gavial's meta is that when he's town half the time he's really obvious town and half the time he's indistinguishable from his wolf meta.

Some people have proposed that if his logic is too sound or if his reads aren't wacky and weird enough he's scum but I don't have a big enough sample size to affirm that (and I have used that very "tell" as a way to frame him when I was mafia and he was town).

I think when Gavial is falling into that segment of his meta where he's indistinguishable from his wolf meta he's actually not very easy to read, and he certainly is in that place right now. I think Gavial is like ~rand atp and the votes on him for being anti town are kinda lazy.

can you link a game where he was a villager and was “indistinguishable” from his wolf game?

[Hally]

i.e. perfectly fine things that don’t really go anywhere and are easy to say

I haven't played with Visor at all apart from Stardew Valley where he posted mostly in GIFs and was in a hydra anyway.

What are your thoughts on my argument that his mindset wrt the nutella wagon has TMI-ed himself as town?

run it by me again? i didn’t really get it

[Amy]

aight, fuck it

ISOing gavial this game i think it's painfully clear he doesn't give a shit about actively engaging other people except regarding their reads on him - and specifically their scumreads. this on its own is already wolfy in a vacuum - and i realize that gavial is a bit more of an "antitown" player than most, but i don't think the previous sentence applies to his towngame at all. grain of salt because it's been a minute, but last time we towned together he was all over the place trying to correct people's reads and actively advancing his own worldview. it was basically the only thing he actually posted to do lol.

is the difference explainable via activity? i don't think so - i recalled a game on Mafia Colosseum where i made a similar read and went back to doublecheck it. i made this read after he had made four posts. i was correct.

i made my ultimatum yesterday because it already looked like he was trending in that direction but i wanted to give him time to do literally anything resembling his towngame. he didn't. dude's just a wolf

[bronana]

here's a bold and innovative read: i have no idea what hally's alignment is

their "a bunch of lazy townreads, call the lowest hanging of fruits a wolf, a few easy questions" seems like straightforwardly wolfy play

they've had relatively slow starts in the couple games i've been v/v with them, but we've been in the game long enough now and if hally's town i'm just not seeing it yet

there i said it

[outed wolf]

i mean, i dont disagree lol

[Alison]

I lean V on Dizzy after some consideration. I think a wolf doesn't break the flow of the thread like this just to brag that they won't play the game. Re: their LOUD BOMBASTIC ENTRANCE where they DECLARE they will NOT play. Re: their LOUD BOMBASTIC ENTRANCE where they DECLARE they will NOT play. People call this type of thing wolf WIFOM but I've never actually seen someone like this flip W.

I don't actually know Dizzy's wolfrange, but I wouldn't expect this "maneuver" from any wolf. You can invite people to yeet you without breaking threadflow and magnetizing attention. Wolf!Dizzy wouldn't pop into the thread just to scream "yeet me" and shitpost. In fact, there's even a comparison to be made when you look at KZA's entrance. I brought this up earlier. KZA's entrance is the type of "shitpost wahaha I may or may not care about this game" posting I'd expect from a wolf. Rather than what Dizzy did.

Arete latching onto Dizzy and considering a yeet there, especially calling it "policy..." Rubs me the wrong way. Sure, if Dizzy's a wolf playing like this, losing to it would suck, but this shouldn't be v!Arete's first thought. This feels more like pointing a finger and calling attention. "Hey guys, there's this one dude who posted stuff about wanting to get killed. Maybe we should do it somewhere down the line, idk." It's a very subtle suggestion and I think it's very wolfy.

Since it's one wolfy thing in a string of passable posts by Arete, I'm still content not tunneling them to the death. But this isn't the way of thinking I expected from v!Rete.

I believe Dizzy's entrance is NAI but I liked their earnest defense of Gavial regardless of Gavial's alignment. White-knighting Gavial doesn't make a lot of sense; you'd be taking on a lot of heat for very little benefit and can even be accused of TMI. Defending a scumbuddy Gavial like this is just begging to be POE'd forever if he flips red which there is a high chance of.

[dyachei]

I lean V on Dizzy after some consideration. I think a wolf doesn't break the flow of the thread like this just to brag that they won't play the game. Re: their LOUD BOMBASTIC ENTRANCE where they DECLARE they will NOT play. Re: their LOUD BOMBASTIC ENTRANCE where they DECLARE they will NOT play. People call this type of thing wolf WIFOM but I've never actually seen someone like this flip W.

I don't actually know Dizzy's wolfrange, but I wouldn't expect this "maneuver" from any wolf. You can invite people to yeet you without breaking threadflow and magnetizing attention. Wolf!Dizzy wouldn't pop into the thread just to scream "yeet me" and shitpost. In fact, there's even a comparison to be made when you look at KZA's entrance. I brought this up earlier. KZA's entrance is the type of "shitpost wahaha I may or may not care about this game" posting I'd expect from a wolf. Rather than what Dizzy did.

Arete latching onto Dizzy and considering a yeet there, especially calling it "policy..." Rubs me the wrong way. Sure, if Dizzy's a wolf playing like this, losing to it would suck, but this shouldn't be v!Arete's first thought. This feels more like pointing a finger and calling attention. "Hey guys, there's this one dude who posted stuff about wanting to get killed. Maybe we should do it somewhere down the line, idk." It's a very subtle suggestion and I think it's very wolfy.

Since it's one wolfy thing in a string of passable posts by Arete, I'm still content not tunneling them to the death. But this isn't the way of thinking I expected from v!Rete.

I believe Dizzy's entrance is NAI but I liked their earnest defense of Gavial regardless of Gavial's alignment. White-knighting Gavial doesn't make a lot of sense; you'd be taking on a lot of heat for very little benefit and can even be accused of TMI. Defending a scumbuddy Gavial like this is just begging to be POE'd forever if he flips red which there is a high chance of.

how caught up are you?

[Alison]

can you link a game where he was a villager and was “indistinguishable” from his wolf game?

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 276&t=2101

[Amy]

here's a bold and innovative read: i have no idea what hally's alignment is

their "a bunch of lazy townreads, call the lowest hanging of fruits a wolf, a few easy questions" seems like straightforwardly wolfy play

they've had relatively slow starts in the couple games i've been v/v with them, but we've been in the game long enough now and if hally's town i'm just not seeing it yet

there i said it

this is p much where i'm at

the actual biggest issue i have with their earlygame, beyond even the "tmiing zack v" thing (which i concede may be me nitpicking myself into oblivion), is that they wolfread me in the exact spot where i think a wolf usually throws an easy townread at whichever villager's decided to do slightly more than the bare minimum on page 1

[Amy]

can you link a game where he was a villager and was “indistinguishable” from his wolf game?

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 276&t=2101

he's absolutely a billion times townier in this game than he is here lmao

[Alison]

I think Marluxion and Vulgard are both town. outed wolf's outrage over my take on nutella's wagon is I think genuine indication that he feels it was legit. I find Amy null but am willing to sheep thread consensus on her for today. nutella is lock town. That leaves the rest of the game in the POE. If I wanted to stretch I could give Hally a townread on tone as well.

i don’t think my tone has been villagery and if anything i’m coming across more flat than usual because i’m really tired today

plus tone is a bad way to read me in general because i have good tone as a wolf

so this read on me is a bit weird

I did say it was a reach.

But I was referring to the way you responded to Arete accusing you of claiming wolf as wolf. It felt like you were genuinely trying to get across to them and make sure you two are on the same page rather than lean hard on your meta to wipe away the accusation or push them for having sketchy reasons to suspect you.

Call it a gut read if you want.

[Amy]

"this game" meaning the linked game, to be clear

i skimmed the iso for like 10 seconds and i'm even happier with my current vote

[Hally]

fwiw i think the general consensus that i’m meh at best and wolfy at worst is a fair assessment of my play so far and that v reading at this point would be kind of absurd

if anything i’m more sketched out by alison wanting to v read me for “good tone” and i don’t really believe she believes that

[Alison]

aight, fuck it

ISOing gavial this game i think it's painfully clear he doesn't give a shit about actively engaging other people except regarding their reads on him - and specifically their scumreads. this on its own is already wolfy in a vacuum - and i realize that gavial is a bit more of an "antitown" player than most, but i don't think the previous sentence applies to his towngame at all. grain of salt because it's been a minute, but last time we towned together he was all over the place trying to correct people's reads and actively advancing his own worldview. it was basically the only thing he actually posted to do lol.

is the difference explainable via activity? i don't think so - i recalled a game on Mafia Colosseum where i made a similar read and went back to doublecheck it. i made this read after he had made four posts. i was correct.

i made my ultimatum yesterday because it already looked like he was trending in that direction but i wanted to give him time to do literally anything resembling his towngame. he didn't. dude's just a wolf

I'm going to reconsider Gavial with these points in mind. I'm not closed off to the possibility he's just a wolf.

[dyachei]

"this game" meaning the linked game, to be clear

i skimmed the iso for like 10 seconds and i'm even happier with my current vote

it's super different

[staypositivefriend]

alison's a wolf lol

[dyachei]

alison's a wolf lol

so you agree with me now?

[Alison]

alison's a wolf lol

I'm not I promise.

[c4e5g3d5]

I'm not closed off to the possibility he's just a wolf.

Someone tell me why I hate this line so much

Is it
The tiptoeing?
The vacuousness?
The fact that this is only coming now from Ms. Akemi "Check The Easy Worlds First" Homura and with so little conviction in the sequence from start to finish?

Your guess is as good as mine.

[Hally]

can you link a game where he was a villager and was “indistinguishable” from his wolf game?

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 276&t=2101

i just skimmed the first two pages of that game (not his iso) and like, are you joking? he’s playing nothing like there

he’s one billion percent a wolf