PSY 2310 - Cognitive Psychology [END]

[bronana]

aight, fuck it

ISOing gavial this game i think it's painfully clear he doesn't give a shit about actively engaging other people except regarding their reads on him - and specifically their scumreads. this on its own is already wolfy in a vacuum - and i realize that gavial is a bit more of an "antitown" player than most, but i don't think the previous sentence applies to his towngame at all. grain of salt because it's been a minute, but last time we towned together he was all over the place trying to correct people's reads and actively advancing his own worldview. it was basically the only thing he actually posted to do lol.

is the difference explainable via activity? i don't think so - i recalled a game on Mafia Colosseum where i made a similar read and went back to doublecheck it. i made this read after he had made four posts. i was correct.

i made my ultimatum yesterday because it already looked like he was trending in that direction but i wanted to give him time to do literally anything resembling his towngame. he didn't. dude's just a wolf

Yeah. My experience with gav/seth, regardless of whatever criticism you throw at his play, he definitely cared a LOT about those games. He doesn't seem to give a shit about this game. Granted, I've only played two games with him and they were in 2019 i think, and I've never seen him wolf, but he's so different that it's almost absurd.

[Tangrowth]

Arete, Hally, and Gavial all currently have votes of those in my POE. I'll vote Hally.

[VOTE: Hally] aubergine

how’d you go from saying i was the person in your PoE you felt best about to voting me? did i misunderstand something?

Sorry, that is probably confusing, I was showing support for the pressure in spite of that being the case. I'd probably rather yeet Arete or Gavial still, I'll reassess more later when I can.

[c4e5g3d5]

That is shockingly w/w.

[staypositivefriend]

for reference, this is the game i just finished w/gavial where he was a villager. the disparity in his opening posts in this game vs that game is what prompted me to vote him in the first place

https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 100&t=2119

[bronana]

I'm not closed off to the possibility he's just a wolf.

Someone tell me why I hate this line so much

Is it
The tiptoeing?
The vacuousness?
The fact that this is only coming now from Ms. Akemi "Check The Easy Worlds First" Homura and with so little conviction in the sequence from start to finish?

Your guess is as good as mine.

now that you mention it alison voicing hesitancy over killing a LHF is strange

[KZA]

hot(?) take is that Gavial received way too much heat from too many directions for his 4 post entrance and is probably just town

[Alison]

I'm not closed off to the possibility he's just a wolf.

Someone tell me why I hate this line so much

Is it
The tiptoeing?
The vacuousness?
The fact that this is only coming now from Ms. Akemi "Check The Easy Worlds First" Homura and with so little conviction in the sequence from start to finish?

Your guess is as good as mine.

You are really making some big reaches in order to shade this line. All I am saying is that I'm not ready to lock Gavial town yet and if there's a legit case on him my ears and mind are open.

[KZA]

I'm not closed off to the possibility he's just a wolf.

Someone tell me why I hate this line so much

Is it
The tiptoeing?
The vacuousness?
The fact that this is only coming now from Ms. Akemi "Check The Easy Worlds First" Homura and with so little conviction in the sequence from start to finish?

Your guess is as good as mine.

now that you mention it alison voicing hesitancy over killing a LHF is strange

I don't think it is, she did a similar thing with me in Congress of Vienna where she was town

[staypositivefriend]

here's a bold and innovative read: i have no idea what hally's alignment is

their "a bunch of lazy townreads, call the lowest hanging of fruits a wolf, a few easy questions" seems like straightforwardly wolfy play

they've had relatively slow starts in the couple games i've been v/v with them, but we've been in the game long enough now and if hally's town i'm just not seeing it yet

there i said it

that's a reasonable perspective to have - the reason why i'm not there is because hally usually gives us more to work with/read their alignment based off of at this stage in this game, but their activity/general presence in this game is lower than almost any game i've played w/them. i think that they're gaining steam regardless of their alignment and it's when that steam is fully gained that they will actually have clear alignment tells. i'm just kinda "shrug, who knows" about them right now

[dyachei]

I'm not closed off to the possibility he's just a wolf.

Someone tell me why I hate this line so much

Is it
The tiptoeing?
The vacuousness?
The fact that this is only coming now from Ms. Akemi "Check The Easy Worlds First" Homura and with so little conviction in the sequence from start to finish?

Your guess is as good as mine.

now that you mention it alison voicing hesitancy over killing a LHF is strange

that's not the strange part

thinking this is anywhere near the same as the game she linked is bad though

[Alison]

I believe Gavial's level of giving-a-fuck about the game he is playing is NAI.

[staypositivefriend]

alison's a wolf lol

so you agree with me now?

i mostly just said that as a gut reaction to her post where she said she was keeping an open mind about gavial - something about it instinctually rubbed me the wrong way and i felt like calling her out and seeing how she reacted would help me read her, but her reaction was pretty bland

[Tangrowth]

Oh, that's right! @Tangrowth If you are town this will be our first game as the same alignment!!! I can barely contain my excitement or disappointment, depending!!!

Watch you being scum this game though lol. Watch the universe betray me.

The fact that this is a delayed response makes me feel even better, but if you’re messing with me then lol.

[Amy]

to play devil's advocate:

for alison to have TMI that seth is a wolf, see THAT iso, and decide that she can pass it off as "indistinguishable from his wolfgame" in a manner that would get us to back off of him here requires alison to either think we're REALLY dumb or for her to somehow not see the difference despite having tmi

i guess it could be the sort of outlandishly brazen claim that i've heard w!alison likes to make? dunno. never seen her wolfgame

but on the surface it's such an obtuse point in seth's defense that i'm tempted to call it unaligned as a lv1 read, just because in what universe does that ever work?

(on the other hand if gavial does somehow wind up a villager i kinda just wanna park a vote on alison and go afk for 47 hours 59 minutes)

[Alison]

I feel like I'm the only one that's wolfed with Marl when I see people clearing super light but I think the reality is my perception of Marl's ranges are just skewed from a game or two of experience without having the rest of the games others have with them

I have just finished a wolfgame with Marl and I still feel okay about clearing him.

[KZA]

c4, dya and KZA are in the "no impressions made" club and I would like them to play the game. I do not townread c4 for a carefully voiced scumread (?) on SPF. That's in any average wolf's wolfrange and I think SPF is too quick to clear them regardless of alignment.

dya and KZA just haven't talked about the game much yet. Dya got offended based on a single accusation if I read that correctly, and KZA 5-posted and dipped.

I could say similar things about KZA, for that matter. Except KZA's ISO is even worse. Not only does it have fewer posts, but its only attempt at engagement is a thin townread on SPF. Also, bows out of reading Gavial instead of even trying. Terrible look so far. The point about "looking out of touch with the thread" also applies here. Dizzy just above me is open about the fact they won't engage with the game (not sure how to read that at the moment). KZA here is low-efforting and being quiet about it.

Stupid read, but KZA and Dizzy aren't W/W based on that. I doubt they would both do this as wolves, and in such a different manner, too. If they wanted to meme and become the slankwolf collective, they'd either both do it like Dizzy or both like KZA. I understand if people consider this read stupid, though.

sorry to bring up old stuff, I've been working a lot and not really posting

wanna walk me through this 0-100? I don't really see how you made this progression when I had 0 posts between those 2

[staypositivefriend]

I don't know how to put this gently so I am just going to ask if you are all aware that Gavial is Seththeking and that being anti-town is NAI for him.

^^i actually do take issue with this post from alison, because i feel like she was trying to generalize all of the suspicion against gavial as being related to him being "anti-town", when it was very clear that the majority of suspicion toward him had nothing to do w/him being anti-town or pro-town. it felt like a post that was intended to steer the thread consensus in a specific direction, which isn't implausible for alison to do as a villager, but the generalization grinded my gears a bit

[Tangrowth]

Hey @Tangrowth, I read all the words in your wall, whether or not I absorbed any of it. I saw you wanted to figure out our reads differences, though. What reads you wanna sort out?

That would be awesome! I have no idea what your time zone is (I’m on phone), um, maybe we can regroup with new reads lists either in like a handful of hours or in like 15 or so, or we can not real-time and just say some things back and forth, anything works really. Let me look again after I catch back up and see what names are the most notable or urgent.

[Alison]

I don't know how to put this gently so I am just going to ask if you are all aware that Gavial is Seththeking and that being anti-town is NAI for him.

^^i actually do take issue with this post from alison, because i feel like she was trying to generalize all of the suspicion against gavial as being related to him being "anti-town", when it was very clear that the majority of suspicion toward him had nothing to do w/him being anti-town or pro-town. it felt like a post that was intended to steer the thread consensus in a specific direction, which isn't implausible for alison to do as a villager, but the generalization grinded my gears a bit

It was not clear to me. I was just putting out what I know about Seth's meta because I saw the word anti-town bounced around a couple of times. I don't think it's fair to me to characterize me as trying to say that all the suspicion against Gavial was because he was anti-town.

Like what exactly is the idea here? I say "guys Gavial is always anti-town it's NAI for him", you guys look at your legitimate grievances with actual wolfy play by Seth and think "oh well Alison says anti-town play is NAI for Gavial so I guess I can't scumread him now"?

[Hally]

I think Marluxion and Vulgard are both town. outed wolf's outrage over my take on nutella's wagon is I think genuine indication that he feels it was legit. I find Amy null but am willing to sheep thread consensus on her for today. nutella is lock town. That leaves the rest of the game in the POE. If I wanted to stretch I could give Hally a townread on tone as well.

i don’t think my tone has been villagery and if anything i’m coming across more flat than usual because i’m really tired today

plus tone is a bad way to read me in general because i have good tone as a wolf

so this read on me is a bit weird

I did say it was a reach.

But I was referring to the way you responded to Arete accusing you of claiming wolf as wolf. It felt like you were genuinely trying to get across to them and make sure you two are on the same page rather than lean hard on your meta to wipe away the accusation or push them for having sketchy reasons to suspect you.

Call it a gut read if you want.

i really have a hard time believing you’d v read me for that post but alright

also sorry, my last post to you re: gavial may have been a bit harsh

[dyachei]

I think alison is wolfier than gavial

[Tangrowth]

What’s villagery about that Arete post, Hally?

i think the first paragraph re: you responding to arete and apologizing to them as though you had TMI that they’re a villager is a villagery thing for arete to think

it’s not unfakeable and i have no idea what their wolf range is, but it struck me as genuine

Thank you!

(More generally, to you or anyone) in the future thank you for answering any of my questions, I may not get around to expressing it due to the post cap.

As for the Alison thought, I don’t find it an unbelievable thing for Alison to genuinely think. She sometimes has some pretty strongly delivered takes that struck me as... notable (for lack of a better term) in a similar way.

is this a polite way of saying my reads are usually bad

Omg not at all! We just see things differently often and I think it’s cool.

[Hally]

alison's a wolf lol

I'm not I promise.

[staypositivefriend]

I don't know how to put this gently so I am just going to ask if you are all aware that Gavial is Seththeking and that being anti-town is NAI for him.

^^i actually do take issue with this post from alison, because i feel like she was trying to generalize all of the suspicion against gavial as being related to him being "anti-town", when it was very clear that the majority of suspicion toward him had nothing to do w/him being anti-town or pro-town. it felt like a post that was intended to steer the thread consensus in a specific direction, which isn't implausible for alison to do as a villager, but the generalization grinded my gears a bit

It was not clear to me. I was just putting out what I know about Seth's meta because I saw the word anti-town bounced around a couple of times. I don't think it's fair to me to characterize me as trying to say that all the suspicion against Gavial was because he was anti-town.

Like what exactly is the idea here? I say "guys Gavial is always anti-town it's NAI for him", you guys look at your legitimate grievances with actual wolfy play by Seth and think "oh well Alison says anti-town play is NAI for Gavial so I guess I can't scumread him now"?

i viewed that post as you flexing your experience/knowledge of gavial's meta, and using that as a way to steer some of the pressure off of him. if you present yourself as The Expert on a specific player and you shoot down the idea that traditionally wolfy play is NAI for them, then you can reasonably influence people and make them feel more unsure of themselves. this is an approach that you've taken as a wolf before, i am sure?

[Amy]

I don't know how to put this gently so I am just going to ask if you are all aware that Gavial is Seththeking and that being anti-town is NAI for him.

^^i actually do take issue with this post from alison, because i feel like she was trying to generalize all of the suspicion against gavial as being related to him being "anti-town", when it was very clear that the majority of suspicion toward him had nothing to do w/him being anti-town or pro-town. it felt like a post that was intended to steer the thread consensus in a specific direction, which isn't implausible for alison to do as a villager, but the generalization grinded my gears a bit

It was not clear to me. I was just putting out what I know about Seth's meta because I saw the word anti-town bounced around a couple of times. I don't think it's fair to me to characterize me as trying to say that all the suspicion against Gavial was because he was anti-town.

Like what exactly is the idea here? I say "guys Gavial is always anti-town it's NAI for him", you guys look at your legitimate grievances with actual wolfy play by Seth and think "oh well Alison says anti-town play is NAI for Gavial so I guess I can't scumread him now"?

i imagine the perception shift would be designed to sway the people who DIDN'T have much opinion on gavial more than the people who are actively wolfreading him

the more people you can get dismissing wolfreads on that slot as being "lazy" by convincing those people "oh he's antitown either way, he must be unreadable", the less likely it is that a wagon on him gains actual traction

not that i'm 100% convinced this is what went down, but that's my perception of spf's theory

[c4e5g3d5]

Yeah Alison's whole treatment of the Seth conversation looks like a whole bunch of steer first, actually evaluate Seth later. Irresponsile at best, hard agenda'd at worst.

[Alison]

i think that sunbae is a villager

Nothing about sunbae's posts seriously appealed to me. What's this read based on?

[Amy]

a bit weirded out that my devil's avocado seems to have gone completely ignored

@dyachei do you have any opinion on the other gavial game, or the meta points i brought up against him?

[Alison]

i viewed that post as you flexing your experience/knowledge of gavial's meta, and using that as a way to steer some of the pressure off of him. if you present yourself as The Expert on a specific player and you shoot down the idea that traditionally wolfy play is NAI for them, then you can reasonably influence people and make them feel more unsure of themselves. this is an approach that you've taken as a wolf before, i am sure?

I am not an expert on Seth. There. :P

But also other people have already claimed to be Gavial experts even stronger than me so if I was trying to pull that here I'd be contradicted.

[Tangrowth]

fwiw i think the general consensus that i’m meh at best and wolfy at worst is a fair assessment of my play so far and that v reading at this point would be kind of absurd

if anything i’m more sketched out by alison wanting to v read me for “good tone” and i don’t really believe she believes that

You’re so much more than meh as a person, and your efforts in this game are appreciated.

[Alison]

c4's treatment of me is so disingenuous that I'm just going to vote him.

[VOTE: c4] aubergine

[c4e5g3d5]

Hey @Tangrowth, I read all the words in your wall, whether or not I absorbed any of it. I saw you wanted to figure out our reads differences, though. What reads you wanna sort out?

That would be awesome! I have no idea what your time zone is (I’m on phone), um, maybe we can regroup with new reads lists either in like a handful of hours or in like 15 or so, or we can not real-time and just say some things back and forth, anything works really. Let me look again after I catch back up and see what names are the most notable or urgent.

I'm EST. Gonna be busy most of tomorrow morning. The latter would probably be more doable for me.

[staypositivefriend]

i think that sunbae is a villager

Nothing about sunbae's posts seriously appealed to me. What's this read based on?

it's based on me dialoguing back and forth w/sunbae for over an hour and realizing that his perspective about me was coming from a reasonable/internally consistent place even though it rubbed me the wrong way at first, and feeling like his attempts to parse my alignment were coming from a place of genuine consideration/empathy/worry about being incorrect. there was just a lot of passion behind the way that sunbae engaged with me. i am sure that sunbae is a talented enough wolf to fake the stuff that he said, but it felt to me in the moment that we were two villagers getting sidetracked and arguing with each other

[dyachei]

a bit weirded out that my devil's avocado seems to have gone completely ignored

@dyachei do you have any opinion on the other gavial game, or the meta points i brought up against him?

yeah, he seemed a lot more comfortable there, kind of shot the shit with people and joked around. Here, he's stayed mostly quiet and angry at being a wagon

i feel like every post this game is ok why is x voting him

I think he could easily be a wolf

but alison weirds me out more - like how she thought these games were comparible or her general actions in thread. her catch up also seemed a bit out of order

[c4e5g3d5]

c4's treatment of me is so disingenuous that I'm just going to vote him.

[VOTE: c4] aubergine

You really think I can do something like this as a wolf?

[Alison]

c4's treatment of me is so disingenuous that I'm just going to vote him.

[VOTE: c4] aubergine

You really think I can do something like this as a wolf?

Yes obviously.

Mostly I just feel like your attacks on me have been opportunistic timing-wise and not really reflective of how things went down.

[Tangrowth]

I’m going to move to Arete vote as I think I feel a bit better about Hally in my gut after catching up quickly. I have to be away from thread for real for a solid block now, wish me luck with more grading of the words and numbers

[Hally]

to play devil's advocate:

for alison to have TMI that seth is a wolf, see THAT iso, and decide that she can pass it off as "indistinguishable from his wolfgame" in a manner that would get us to back off of him here requires alison to either think we're REALLY dumb or for her to somehow not see the difference despite having tmi

i guess it could be the sort of outlandishly brazen claim that i've heard w!alison likes to make? dunno. never seen her wolfgame

but on the surface it's such an obtuse point in seth's defense that i'm tempted to call it unaligned as a lv1 read, just because in what universe does that ever work?

(on the other hand if gavial does somehow wind up a villager i kinda just wanna park a vote on alison and go afk for 47 hours 59 minutes)

pretty much, yeah

i have a hard time believing alison would genuinely think she could keep the wagon off gavial if they’re w/w so this would have to be some bizarre wifom play where alison makes herself look so aligned with gavial that when he flips wolf we level ourselves into v reading her

that or gavial is actually a villager somehow and alison has TMI

i dunno, i also don’t like her read on me and felt like it was TMI-ish and as others have pointed out, her take on nutella’s wagon was bizarre

i’m not really used to being baffled by the things alison says regardless of her alignment so i dunno what to do with all this

[Tangrowth]

[VOTE: arete] aubergine

I forgot to do this shoot, okay be back later, you all are awesome and I am having so much fun playing this game!!

[Alison]

a bit weirded out that my devil's avocado seems to have gone completely ignored

@dyachei do you have any opinion on the other gavial game, or the meta points i brought up against him?

yeah, he seemed a lot more comfortable there, kind of shot the shit with people and joked around. Here, he's stayed mostly quiet and angry at being a wagon

i feel like every post this game is ok why is x voting him

I think he could easily be a wolf

but alison weirds me out more - like how she thought these games were comparible or her general actions in thread. her catch up also seemed a bit out of order

Catchup out of order is NAI for me. I often bounce between recent posts and old posts when I'm in the process of catching up. I've also clarified that I don't think level of care about the game is AI for Gavial.

[c4e5g3d5]

c4's treatment of me is so disingenuous that I'm just going to vote him.

[VOTE: c4] aubergine

You really think I can do something like this as a wolf?

Yes obviously.

Except you're one of the people here who's actually seen me wolf
How tf

[Alison]

What exactly have you done that's out of your wolfrange c4?

[Amy]

i think boiling down the difference between this game and gav's other game to "level of care" is an oversimplification, i think it's really evident that his overall approach and the things he chooses to care ABOUT are super different in a way that's WIM-agnostic

[staypositivefriend]

a bit weirded out that my devil's avocado seems to have gone completely ignored

@dyachei do you have any opinion on the other gavial game, or the meta points i brought up against him?

yeah, he seemed a lot more comfortable there, kind of shot the shit with people and joked around. Here, he's stayed mostly quiet and angry at being a wagon

i feel like every post this game is ok why is x voting him

I think he could easily be a wolf

but alison weirds me out more - like how she thought these games were comparible or her general actions in thread. her catch up also seemed a bit out of order

do you think that gavial/alison are W/W?

[Hally]

I think alison is wolfier than gavial

i wouldn’t go that far lol

[dyachei]

a bit weirded out that my devil's avocado seems to have gone completely ignored

@dyachei do you have any opinion on the other gavial game, or the meta points i brought up against him?

yeah, he seemed a lot more comfortable there, kind of shot the shit with people and joked around. Here, he's stayed mostly quiet and angry at being a wagon

i feel like every post this game is ok why is x voting him

I think he could easily be a wolf

but alison weirds me out more - like how she thought these games were comparible or her general actions in thread. her catch up also seemed a bit out of order

do you think that gavial/alison are W/W?

i think it's w/v

[c4e5g3d5]

What exactly have you done that's out of your wolfrange c4?

This whole damn game

You saw me freeze on every single push I ever made in CoV
You saw me do jack shit to advance jack shit from my worldview in CoV
You saw me shamelessly TMI every controversial name in CoV

How tf

[Alison]

i think it's w/v

Why can't it be V/V?

[Alison]

What exactly have you done that's out of your wolfrange c4?

This whole damn game

You saw me freeze on every single push I ever made in CoV
You saw me do jack shit to advance jack shit from my worldview in CoV
You saw me shamelessly TMI every controversial name in CoV

How tf

I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm scumreading you because you're trying to push a very wrong narrative about me.

[Alison]

What on earth does freezing on every single push you made or advance jack shit from your worldview even mean