PSY 2310 - Cognitive Psychology [END]

[Gavial]

i think it's w/v

Why can't it be V/V?

because neither of you are villagery. you least of all

Let's say I flip green right now and my arguments that Gavial has been essentially NAI this game are proven to be made in good faith. Are you going to treat him as outed wolf because we're "W/V"?

no, i'm going to treat him as a wolf because his iso in that other game is a lot villagerier than this game and it's not just about whether he posts or not?

why would you flipping green mean you were right on gavial? you've already shown me you can't compare likes

i feel like dya's narrative doesn't make sense at all

they're trying to find reasons to call alison wolf over gavial while never denying that gavial is a wolf except in the explicit w/v post which doesn't fit with the rest of their posts

Honestly from what I’ve read from them I didn’t really like em that much.

[nutella]

no, i'm going to treat him as a wolf because his iso in that other game is a lot villagerier than this game and it's not just about whether he posts or not?

why would you flipping green mean you were right on gavial? you've already shown me you can't compare likes

I mean it sounds like you've already made up your mind that we're both wolfy and you're confbiasing the hell out of it then.

you showed me a village game of gav's. that's not his behavior here. therefore he's wolfy rn

you have shown me you're not really paying attention to the game but you're making hard conclusions on it. I'm not sure you give a fuck about this game rn but the thoughts you're providing to the thread are really shallow for you. therefore, you're being wolfy

those things exist no matter what. is it now conf bias to have reads on people?

i'm going to bed

i don't like that you voteparked on alison and seem fully committed to pushing her over gavial here. your posts reek of agenda to me

I don't feel like people are fairly listening to what I have to say about Gavial. At several points in this conversation I have felt as though my words have been distorted or that the meaning I'm trying to get through isn't getting through. Nor do I have confidence that I'm going to sway you on this.

So let's talk about something else. I raised a read on Visor being townie because he seemed to genuinely believe that my read on nutella's wagon was truly nonsensical, when if he was scum he would know deep in his heart that it made sense. It didn't get much attention and got buried by the Gavial stuff. Can you talk to me about that/Visor in general?

i believe you

to be honest, i haven't opened the double elimination iso, and i've taken it on others' word that it's very different from here, and i can simultaneously believe that and believe that you had a point that is consistent and just somehow going over their heads regarding how he behaved there compared to his wolf range in other games.

re: visor i kinda get your point, and have had him at a town lean in general

[Hally]

i agree nutella

i think it’s fine to read gavial/alison as w/v but i don’t get how dya thinks gavial is the villager in that pair

a small part of me wants to say dya’s treatment of gavial is sloppy to be w/w and they would just bus him more straightforwardly

but i do think dya’s approach to him is worse than alison’s

[staypositivefriend]

decided to lay down for like five minutes after a long day of work

just woke up like an hour and a half later -__-

[staypositivefriend]

hey gavial, i wanna hear any reads that come to ur mind. i dont care who theyre on or what theyre about, i just wanna hear u give takes

[nutella]

i think it's w/v

Why can't it be V/V?

because neither of you are villagery. you least of all

Let's say I flip green right now and my arguments that Gavial has been essentially NAI this game are proven to be made in good faith. Are you going to treat him as outed wolf because we're "W/V"?

no, i'm going to treat him as a wolf because his iso in that other game is a lot villagerier than this game and it's not just about whether he posts or not?

why would you flipping green mean you were right on gavial? you've already shown me you can't compare likes

i feel like dya's narrative doesn't make sense at all

they're trying to find reasons to call alison wolf over gavial while never denying that gavial is a wolf except in the explicit w/v post which doesn't fit with the rest of their posts

Honestly from what I’ve read from them I didn’t really like em that much.

....yeah..... dya, sorry about the rand

[nutella]

gavial and dyachei are mafia teammates

place ur bets folks

[staypositivefriend]

[VOTE: dyachei] aubergine

[outed wolf]

what do you think of dya spf, specifically (not like you agree with arguments others make, whats your interpretation.thoughts on their posts)

[Arete]

...still catching up but at some point within the past ?few minutes? Gavial seems to have silently voted me on the poll, and not in the thread, despite literally never mentioning me at any point previously

which is baffling and kind of makes me think that he's badly attempting to spew me as his partner? or something?

[Alison]

I'm not sure what to think about this weird turnaround in thread atmosphere.

I think Gavial's VT claim was kinda townie. He's never been shy about claiming as town, and it kinda boxes him in claimwise if he's scum. The counterargument is that he's WIFOMing by doing something that sabotages him if he's scum but it doesn't seem like his style to play mind games that twisty.

[Alison]

The last time Hally was a wolf and I was under pressure they were more than happy to bury me. Faked a little bit of indecision but at the end of the day they firmly sided against me. They seem a little more weathervaney in this game, agreeing with scumreads on me at first and then going "hmmyes" when nutella argues that I'm town being attacked by dya. I don't see the agenda in it, since in this gamestate they could almost certainly get away with pushing town!Alison here.

[Gavial]

gavial and dyachei are mafia teammates

place ur bets folks

Kill me then.
I’m Town.

[Gavial]

...still catching up but at some point within the past ?few minutes? Gavial seems to have silently voted me on the poll, and not in the thread, despite literally never mentioning me at any point previously

which is baffling and kind of makes me think that he's badly attempting to spew me as his partner? or something?

I’m Town, so no.
I’m voting you because I know how good you can be.

[Gavial]

Then again though I guess we have Hally that could stop you.

[Gavial]

Unless your both wolves in which case we are kinda screwed.
Unless Vig shoots on of you two tonight.

[Gavial]

Like Hally/Vulgard/Arete/Marlu/Tang
Any 4/5 of these players being the complete scum team would be absolutely horrible to go up against.
Don’t think we can win from that.

[Gavial]

I mean I guess Dizzy is strong as well.
So Maybe we have a chance.

[Arete]

...still catching up but at some point within the past ?few minutes? Gavial seems to have silently voted me on the poll, and not in the thread, despite literally never mentioning me at any point previously

which is baffling and kind of makes me think that he's badly attempting to spew me as his partner? or something?

I’m Town, so no.
I’m voting you because I know how good you can be.

okay so just to confirm

you're voting me over any of your actual wolfreads for the sole reason that you think I'm a competent wolf

[Gavial]

But that’s as Scum.
Town!Dizzy gets pocketed very easily.

[Gavial]

...still catching up but at some point within the past ?few minutes? Gavial seems to have silently voted me on the poll, and not in the thread, despite literally never mentioning me at any point previously

which is baffling and kind of makes me think that he's badly attempting to spew me as his partner? or something?

I’m Town, so no.
I’m voting you because I know how good you can be.

okay so just to confirm

you're voting me over any of your actual wolfreads for the sole reason that you think I'm a competent wolf

Yes.
And I don’t really have any confident wolf reads.

[Hally]

[Arete]

...so the good news is that Gavial's town stocks are rapidly rising

Spoiler: show

the bad news is that Gavial's town stocks are rapidly rising

[Gavial]

...so the good news is that Gavial's town stocks are rapidly rising

Spoiler: show

the bad news is that Gavial's town stocks are rapidly rising

Then PL me bruh!

[Gavial]

If you gonna insist on calling me PL, vote me!

[Gavial]

Yet instead yours votes on Tang.
What’s your case on them exactly Arete?

[Gavial]

If I remember correctly your votes been on them for awhile and Tang doesn’t like itZ

[outed wolf]

You got actual reads pal

[Hally]

...so the good news is that Gavial's town stocks are rapidly rising

Spoiler: show

the bad news is that Gavial's town stocks are rapidly rising

is that really all it takes? i’m not denying he’s getting better in the sense that he’s making posts but the posts still suck and don’t seem like v!him

[Arete]

Yet instead yours votes on Tang.
What’s your case on them exactly Arete?

I've actually explained it in my posts, which you would know if you'd actually bothered to read them!

With that being said, in case pulling up my Iso and searching through it is too difficult, here it is!

reading Tangrowth's catch-up posts I think they're >rand wolf

looking first at the catchup posts themself (please bear with my poor post formatting)

I just got a raise ama

Yay!!

might be a sucker but i kinda doubt w!amy dumps on zack first thing

i don’t think w!her sees zack as a viable push early on

dont wanna marsh your mellow but its an insignificant push early on in the game, i dont think anything of it. i doubt w or v amy expect to go anywhere with it (and zacks perfectly pushable cmon. just look at that face)

Here he comes. Here comes John Wayne. "I'm not gonna cry about my pa. I'm gonna build an airport, put my name on it."

Why, outed wolf? So you can fly away from your feelings?

I'm going to have a really hard time ever voting for someone quoting Arrested Development.

sup

Omg is this finally our first game together? Speaking of which, pretty sure this is my first game with a decent lot of you, so this should be interesting. Does anyone other than bronana or outed wolf normally go by another username?

I hate to be this person, but I feel like I need to ask for a TL;DR summary of what happened in Rocks Fall and/or any other games that are often spoken about that I wasn't in, lol.

so you don't even know why you voted me? cool

visor hasn't given a reason either

worst vibes are from him tbh

what? is this directed at me? I gave a perfectly cromulent explanation when I voted. Also it's an two hours into a 48 hour d1 so lol.

is it normal for nutella to be this ... passive-aggressive?

She does seem more perturbed than usual, not sure what to make of that (from an alignment perspective), otherwise I think it's understandable.

Well, that was a weird catchup. I appreciate that stances are being made, but I'm a bit uneasy with the current vibes, I sort of think taking a step back from the main topic of discussion is probably warranted. Not that I'm trying to tell anyone what do! Just let's have some fun, right? This is a racket game, it should be fun!

I'm curious why Amy parked a vote on Alison, was it because Alison doesn't have any stances?

The bulk of their "catch-up" consists of either not-super-game-relevant comments (congratulating Nutella on the raise, talking about Arrested Development, etc.), or asking not-alignment-relevant-questions (e.g. asking if anyone goes by any other names). While those aren't wolfy in a vacuum (the plays-Mafia-primarily-socially archetype could totally want to congratulate their friend on a raise regardless of alignment, and anyone might be curious whether other people have an additional name) their catchup posts have almost nothing that actually displays a solving thought process -- the closest is asking why Amy parked a vote on Alison, and the take of Nutella. I think I'm explaining it really badly but basically it doesn't feel like the sort of catchup post that would be produced by someone catching up and thinking about what alignment people are as opposed to thinking about how to look vaguely productive.

her posts post catchup are a little better:

Does someone want to talk to me about how to find spf as town (or scum, for that matter)? I saw her play in some of Jay's games I spectated but beyond that I'm at a loss for what she's said so far, it was... thorough. But I don't think I'd call spf a town read or anything.

I need to start combining my posts, but I currently would call nutella town, for whatever that's worth.

I could just be scared of Amy pulling the wool over my eyes like in the voxx 9er, hehe, but I'm not feeling it yet. Can someone talk to me about why she's town?

in the sense that she actually has opinions at all, but overall her questions also seem pretty fillery. Some amount of fillery questions is normal as any alignment but this feels like a really unusually high density of filler questions, which usually indicates scum trying to look solvey.

[VOTE: Tangrowth] aubergine

I'm sorry you think my questions are filler.

why are you apologizing to me

(this is a serious question, to be clear)

Calling someone's questions filler implies that you think they're meaningless, and I don't like the idea of failing to contribute to a game, it's a disservice to the other players.

mrr

your post sort of felt like you were approaching it from the perspective of knowing that I'm a villager (as opposed a wolf trying to get you misexe'd) with the apology in particular feeling like you were trying to appease me

but your perspective basically makes sense from the perspective of you believing that (regardless of your alignment) I think you're being filler-y?

do you believe my push on you to be alignment-indicative?

(also to be clear I wasn't trying to imply that you shouldn't ask those questions if you are town and asking them helps you solve the game)

[Arete]

...so the good news is that Gavial's town stocks are rapidly rising

Spoiler: show

the bad news is that Gavial's town stocks are rapidly rising

is that really all it takes? i’m not denying he’s getting better in the sense that he’s making posts but the posts still suck and don’t seem like v!him

I mean it's not at a lock yet but his posts make me want to repeatedly hit my head against the nearest wall which is usually a good sign that he's town

[Hally]

...so the good news is that Gavial's town stocks are rapidly rising

Spoiler: show

the bad news is that Gavial's town stocks are rapidly rising

is that really all it takes? i’m not denying he’s getting better in the sense that he’s making posts but the posts still suck and don’t seem like v!him

I mean it's not at a lock yet but his posts make me want to repeatedly hit my head against the nearest wall which is usually a good sign that he's town

this is the opposite of what i wanted to hear

[staypositivefriend]

what do you think of dya spf, specifically (not like you agree with arguments others make, whats your interpretation.thoughts on their posts)

i feel like dyachei came into this game with pre-packaged stances, and has spent the entirety of today reiterating them. their reads are reasonable and they come from a perspective that is logical for a villager to have - i just feel like something is missing wrt their reads developing and changing in a fluid way. dyachei's strongest townread is on tangygrowth, a read that was initially just described as tangy being "pure", and read that was later expanded upon to include the reasoning of: "her wallpost contained a lot of detail that wolves wouldn't think to write"

and like, yes, i agree that tangy is towny, but i don't feel like dyachei went on a ~journey~ to figure tangy out. i don't feel like dyachei went on a ~journey~ to figure alison out. their reads just kind of pop into existence, and i can't find any "turning points" in their ISO for when a read might have developed more strongly or more confidently. the surface level stuff is there, and it definitely looks good, but i just don't feel like the internal thought processes that villagers tend to have are reflected in dyachei's reads so far. they feel much more point A to point B to me

i've been struggling w/my read on dyachei because i greatly dislike the idea of pushing on them when theyre a villager, and i mindmelded with them earlier about c4 being villagery, but i've been getting pinged by them for a little while now

[Arete]

...so the good news is that Gavial's town stocks are rapidly rising

Spoiler: show

the bad news is that Gavial's town stocks are rapidly rising

is that really all it takes? i’m not denying he’s getting better in the sense that he’s making posts but the posts still suck and don’t seem like v!him

I mean it's not at a lock yet but his posts make me want to repeatedly hit my head against the nearest wall which is usually a good sign that he's town

this is the opposite of what i wanted to hear

why

when I said 'Seth's meta is that when he's town it makes you want to bash your head against the wall' near SoD did you not believe me

[staypositivefriend]

@Gavial - give me a quick rundown of all the reads you have right now, please? as much detail as you can provide

[Alison]

what do you think of dya spf, specifically (not like you agree with arguments others make, whats your interpretation.thoughts on their posts)

i feel like dyachei came into this game with pre-packaged stances, and has spent the entirety of today reiterating them. their reads are reasonable and they come from a perspective that is logical for a villager to have - i just feel like something is missing wrt their reads developing and changing in a fluid way. dyachei's strongest townread is on tangygrowth, a read that was initially just described as tangy being "pure", and read that was later expanded upon to include the reasoning of: "her wallpost contained a lot of detail that wolves wouldn't think to write"

and like, yes, i agree that tangy is towny, but i don't feel like dyachei went on a ~journey~ to figure tangy out. i don't feel like dyachei went on a ~journey~ to figure alison out. their reads just kind of pop into existence, and i can't find any "turning points" in their ISO for when a read might have developed more strongly or more confidently. the surface level stuff is there, and it definitely looks good, but i just don't feel like the internal thought processes that villagers tend to have are reflected in dyachei's reads so far. they feel much more point A to point B to me

i've been struggling w/my read on dyachei because i greatly dislike the idea of pushing on them when theyre a villager, and i mindmelded with them earlier about c4 being villagery, but i've been getting pinged by them for a little while now

How does that mesh with your stated scumread on me then? You asked dya about their scumread on me a couple of times (while holding your own personal scumread on me), and didn't seem to have an issue or be phased by it then.

[Alison]

I think Marluxion is town and would be happy to hear Marl's thoughts on Gavial since Marl claims to be the Gavial-whisperer.

Also on review of sunbae's ISO I find it lacking.

[Gavial]

I'm perhaps not going to come close to matching a fair portion of this playlist through sheer reads and/or solving methods. That's not really my strength, especially this early on, and even more so with people I don't know and entering a tense environment with an intimidating playerlist that I felt and feel more so on the outer edges of for the most part. I understand why people are explaining pleasantries as things I do, and I appreciate the kind thoughts that underlie such an association, so thanks, really. It is very important to me that people are having fun, particularly with such an enamored group of players, but I do think I may have been less concerned about the discordance in such a way that it would be easier to find my footing if I had TMI right now, even if I'd still try to put everyone at more ease publicly. As it stands... I just sort of feel like I'm dipping my toes in the pool, trying to get a feel for things, and if that means people are going to be hesitant to town read me because I'm hurling softballs or whatever, that's fine I guess, but I just don't feel like waiting for me to produce is a good way to find me as town. I guess I don't know where I fit in with this town at all yet, and that's not a comforting spot to be in... I like feeling like I have a specific purpose. I realize someone could just say well, make reads, do your own thing, but I am not going to force reads that I don't have (hence the questions), and I don't function well in a corner. I'm not expecting anyone to help me with that, it's my place to try to optimize how I can help win us this game, just musing aloud about it. I'm probably >rand in terms of being a self-oriented person, and I'll try to keep such perspective to a minimum and let you all figure me out or find me however you'd like, but I have a direct responsibility to make myself easier to find from my end too, and I wanted these things said nonetheless because I feel like at least some players will struggle to find me based on what's been said already. Anyway, without further ado, a reads list.

Strong town
Dizzy - As the player I know the second best out of everyone here, it's natural that I have thoughts here. Dizzy could do anything as scum, I'm convinced, and he could do anything as any alignment to some extent, lol. Wide range is accurate. He's fooled me embarrassingly before, but I don't know, I think the universe in which Dizzy assessed his place in this game with a town role card better matches his behavior thus far than if he were scum. This is mostly driven by a self-centered read actually, so I suppose while it's close to strong now it could also be the most subject to volatility with additional factors, but he and I have a long-standing joke about how we never role the same alignment (I swear it's true though), and I was anxiously awaiting how he would interact with me with an entrance here. I think the way he played to me here reads pretty genuine. The way he played to the thread is worthy of a light town read (update: with his recent posting, I probably feel even better about this particular assessment, he seems carefree). I also think this re: Gavial seems unnecessary if he's scum. I'm not worried about Dizzy right now, even if I maybe should be.
nutella - I wouldn't say nutella has an "easy" meta by any means because I think that's disrespectful to her abilities to play a variety of approaches as a seasoned vet, but she does have a tendency to just scream I'M A VILLAGER to me emotionally (and apparently to others whether through emotions and/or her methodology) when she actually is, and it's understandable that she has a hard time matching that as scum fairly often. To say the least, town nutella, that's what I'm seeing here. She is just oozing genuine emotion about the game, her position, I already thought she was seeming town given the "situation" earlier, but ever since then a lot of her posts have spoken to me. I can try to elaborate upon this when I have more time if it's warranted, but yeah, I'll just play the "I've known nutella for over 10 years and I trust myself enough at this point to be able to read her" card whenever I do feel strongly about her alignment, and that is the case right now (insert disclaimer about reassessment). Please do not yeet her.

Moderate town
Vulgard - This is the solving that just seems... very natural to me. I guess I'm not the only one, so I'm probably sheeping that to some extent too, to what degree I'm not sure. I agree with him about Arete seeming cautious, and I share some of the same concerns (Hally) and I think the recent approach towards spf seemed >rand hard to fake. I also like the lines of questioning, like here. Sort of a no-brainer town read, but not willing to put him up in strong yet.
Zack (bronana) - Zack seems fine, I need to interact with him to better sort him, but I skim through his ISO and it seems believable enough as solving (and shitposting), but this is my favorite Zack post for sure, it just smells like the town Zack indignation I'd expect. I suppose it helps that I don't currently have a town read on c4 myself. I don't sense an agenda in Zack's posts.

Light town
Alison - This is an incredibly light read, but between Alison's declaration of no reads and the way came to the discussed suspicion here are believable as genuine town Alison thoughts. I think she may feel more pressure to tryhard if she were scum. However, she also can and will throw out town reads like they're candy and come to some unique perspectives when she's town from what I've seen, so I don't want to unfairly hold her to a standard, but I am sort of checking my watch waiting for her to get truly invested to assess a better read.
dya - I read their frustration as genuine even if I'm not sure if it's really alignment indicative at all. Beyond that, I see enough "poke" statements for lack of a better term that I like that GTH I'd sort them as town.
spf - Lots of genuine gear turning and poking and pushing the thread, and based on what has been said about her (more "words" as scum), this seems to align more with a theory of town spf.
Visor (outed wolf) - As much as I've interacted with Visor from time to time, have we actually played together? I can't remember. Anyway, Visor seems legit. This is probably the most reliant on soul read of my light towns.

POE
Amy - Amy's doing things and I feel this placement is sort of unfair to her, but I'm just not getting there on her at all yet, and that's probably a me problem, and I'd like to bridge the gap. Her tone is fine, she has made some efforts to solve, I just don't see them as genuine or anything yet and I can't place her emotions anywhere. I'm still sort of clueless as to why she's getting townread. She has 35 posts and I can't really tell anything AI at all in them personally, and that's a bit concerning.
Arete - I don't know whether I buy Arete's push on me or not still, something isn't squaring with me about it and I'm not sure how to clarify. The policy push on Dizzy is just bad at face value, but I'm not sure whether it makes them wolfy.
c4 - I think I can get somewhere to find c4, but as of now nothing. The reads list is somewhat opposed to mine, I'd like to try and figure out and reconcile some differences of opinion.
Gavial - Yikes, this ISO is a nothingburger. An easy d1 yeet candidate. I just don't think alignment can be assessed unless Gavial (Seth?) steps up his game. I also defer somewhat to you who know him better.
Hally - I'm sad to report this, but I'm not feeling Hally yet and I really need to talk to them. I appreciated their explanation of Arete's push of me but I'm having trouble seeing eye to eye with them about that. We agree about nutella and Vulgard, but I'm not really sure how Hally reached those conclusions enough to make a determination. I might GTH them town so they're probably the person in my POE I least want to vote out right now, but I still couldn't place them in the above category.
KZA - I'm not sure what to do with this ISO at this time. Help.
Marluxion - I'm not sure what to do with this ISO at this time. Help.
sunbae - This is the battle of my brain and my heart... for sunbae. My brain says sure, he's town, but my heart says no (and whacks the town read away), so I guess he drops to here? I'm not sure where to place him, maybe he needs his own "sunbae???" category. There are complex thoughts and gears turning, but I don't sense a town agenda yet. I'm not sure how to explain it, but it feels off to me, he doesn't emotionally match what 1 day we had in the Voxx 9er and I'm not sure I believed his thoughts on spf were real. I don't need him to like, spend time convincing me, I'm hoping and assuming a light switch will go off at some point.

I don't have enough of a sense to sort within tiers, so they're alphabetical for now. Maybe I'm concentrating too much on people I know and being fooled, lol.

These feel mostly like foggy thoughts outside of nutella, so this isn't presented in a way that's supposed to be anything but ranting (and trying to keep it short, oops) about a lot of cogs in motion, but due to the nature of this game and the post cap, I thought it'd be better to spectate and at least try and collect my thoughts to create a reads list and say some things, and then try to interact and post in a more preferred way.

Also, hi @Dyslexicon! I'd say sheep nutella if you'd like, I trust her and she seems to have an increasing handle on the game affairs. I am really excited to be on the same side here... I think it's true!? I hope.

like look at her dizzy read, it's not just based on meta, but how dizzy's interacting with tangy, the thread, and how he's treating a lhf

same with most of his town reads, even the ones i disagree with like alison

Tang made a solve here though.
@Arete

[Gavial]

Well a readslist at least

[nutella]

oh god what am i reading now lmao

...so the good news is that Gavial's town stocks are rapidly rising

Spoiler: show

the bad news is that Gavial's town stocks are rapidly rising

is that really all it takes? i’m not denying he’s getting better in the sense that he’s making posts but the posts still suck and don’t seem like v!him

I mean it's not at a lock yet but his posts make me want to repeatedly hit my head against the nearest wall which is usually a good sign that he's town

... perhaps yeah

do i still think dya is wolf even if gav is town? probably?? their posts and push on alison just all ring badly to me even if their agenda isn't necessarily linked to gav

i still have the distinct sense dya and gav are just w/w but the recent spat of posts from gav is at least something and the focus on mechs etc is something ive seen him do as town

so back to [VOTE: dya] aubergine

[Gavial]

@Gavial - give me a quick rundown of all the reads you have right now, please? as much detail as you can provide

[Gavial]

IDK Marmot’s Town I guess

[staypositivefriend]

what do you think of dya spf, specifically (not like you agree with arguments others make, whats your interpretation.thoughts on their posts)

i feel like dyachei came into this game with pre-packaged stances, and has spent the entirety of today reiterating them. their reads are reasonable and they come from a perspective that is logical for a villager to have - i just feel like something is missing wrt their reads developing and changing in a fluid way. dyachei's strongest townread is on tangygrowth, a read that was initially just described as tangy being "pure", and read that was later expanded upon to include the reasoning of: "her wallpost contained a lot of detail that wolves wouldn't think to write"

and like, yes, i agree that tangy is towny, but i don't feel like dyachei went on a ~journey~ to figure tangy out. i don't feel like dyachei went on a ~journey~ to figure alison out. their reads just kind of pop into existence, and i can't find any "turning points" in their ISO for when a read might have developed more strongly or more confidently. the surface level stuff is there, and it definitely looks good, but i just don't feel like the internal thought processes that villagers tend to have are reflected in dyachei's reads so far. they feel much more point A to point B to me

i've been struggling w/my read on dyachei because i greatly dislike the idea of pushing on them when theyre a villager, and i mindmelded with them earlier about c4 being villagery, but i've been getting pinged by them for a little while now

How does that mesh with your stated scumread on me then? You asked dya about their scumread on me a couple of times (while holding your own personal scumread on me), and didn't seem to have an issue or be phased by it then.

i actually was getting pinged by dyachei a couple of hours ago when you were facing a lot of heat, and that's what prompted me to question them in the first place. i felt like dyachei was a little bit overeager to use the heat on you as validation that their read was "correct", and the way they worded their read on you in this post in particular: https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 55#p798955 had "am i right, fellow villagers?" energy to me

i don't really know what my read is on you right now, but i overstated my scumread on you earlier

[Arete]

I'm perhaps not going to come close to matching a fair portion of this playlist through sheer reads and/or solving methods. That's not really my strength, especially this early on, and even more so with people I don't know and entering a tense environment with an intimidating playerlist that I felt and feel more so on the outer edges of for the most part. I understand why people are explaining pleasantries as things I do, and I appreciate the kind thoughts that underlie such an association, so thanks, really. It is very important to me that people are having fun, particularly with such an enamored group of players, but I do think I may have been less concerned about the discordance in such a way that it would be easier to find my footing if I had TMI right now, even if I'd still try to put everyone at more ease publicly. As it stands... I just sort of feel like I'm dipping my toes in the pool, trying to get a feel for things, and if that means people are going to be hesitant to town read me because I'm hurling softballs or whatever, that's fine I guess, but I just don't feel like waiting for me to produce is a good way to find me as town. I guess I don't know where I fit in with this town at all yet, and that's not a comforting spot to be in... I like feeling like I have a specific purpose. I realize someone could just say well, make reads, do your own thing, but I am not going to force reads that I don't have (hence the questions), and I don't function well in a corner. I'm not expecting anyone to help me with that, it's my place to try to optimize how I can help win us this game, just musing aloud about it. I'm probably >rand in terms of being a self-oriented person, and I'll try to keep such perspective to a minimum and let you all figure me out or find me however you'd like, but I have a direct responsibility to make myself easier to find from my end too, and I wanted these things said nonetheless because I feel like at least some players will struggle to find me based on what's been said already. Anyway, without further ado, a reads list.

Strong town
Dizzy - As the player I know the second best out of everyone here, it's natural that I have thoughts here. Dizzy could do anything as scum, I'm convinced, and he could do anything as any alignment to some extent, lol. Wide range is accurate. He's fooled me embarrassingly before, but I don't know, I think the universe in which Dizzy assessed his place in this game with a town role card better matches his behavior thus far than if he were scum. This is mostly driven by a self-centered read actually, so I suppose while it's close to strong now it could also be the most subject to volatility with additional factors, but he and I have a long-standing joke about how we never role the same alignment (I swear it's true though), and I was anxiously awaiting how he would interact with me with an entrance here. I think the way he played to me here reads pretty genuine. The way he played to the thread is worthy of a light town read (update: with his recent posting, I probably feel even better about this particular assessment, he seems carefree). I also think this re: Gavial seems unnecessary if he's scum. I'm not worried about Dizzy right now, even if I maybe should be.
nutella - I wouldn't say nutella has an "easy" meta by any means because I think that's disrespectful to her abilities to play a variety of approaches as a seasoned vet, but she does have a tendency to just scream I'M A VILLAGER to me emotionally (and apparently to others whether through emotions and/or her methodology) when she actually is, and it's understandable that she has a hard time matching that as scum fairly often. To say the least, town nutella, that's what I'm seeing here. She is just oozing genuine emotion about the game, her position, I already thought she was seeming town given the "situation" earlier, but ever since then a lot of her posts have spoken to me. I can try to elaborate upon this when I have more time if it's warranted, but yeah, I'll just play the "I've known nutella for over 10 years and I trust myself enough at this point to be able to read her" card whenever I do feel strongly about her alignment, and that is the case right now (insert disclaimer about reassessment). Please do not yeet her.

Moderate town
Vulgard - This is the solving that just seems... very natural to me. I guess I'm not the only one, so I'm probably sheeping that to some extent too, to what degree I'm not sure. I agree with him about Arete seeming cautious, and I share some of the same concerns (Hally) and I think the recent approach towards spf seemed >rand hard to fake. I also like the lines of questioning, like here. Sort of a no-brainer town read, but not willing to put him up in strong yet.
Zack (bronana) - Zack seems fine, I need to interact with him to better sort him, but I skim through his ISO and it seems believable enough as solving (and shitposting), but this is my favorite Zack post for sure, it just smells like the town Zack indignation I'd expect. I suppose it helps that I don't currently have a town read on c4 myself. I don't sense an agenda in Zack's posts.

Light town
Alison - This is an incredibly light read, but between Alison's declaration of no reads and the way came to the discussed suspicion here are believable as genuine town Alison thoughts. I think she may feel more pressure to tryhard if she were scum. However, she also can and will throw out town reads like they're candy and come to some unique perspectives when she's town from what I've seen, so I don't want to unfairly hold her to a standard, but I am sort of checking my watch waiting for her to get truly invested to assess a better read.
dya - I read their frustration as genuine even if I'm not sure if it's really alignment indicative at all. Beyond that, I see enough "poke" statements for lack of a better term that I like that GTH I'd sort them as town.
spf - Lots of genuine gear turning and poking and pushing the thread, and based on what has been said about her (more "words" as scum), this seems to align more with a theory of town spf.
Visor (outed wolf) - As much as I've interacted with Visor from time to time, have we actually played together? I can't remember. Anyway, Visor seems legit. This is probably the most reliant on soul read of my light towns.

POE
Amy - Amy's doing things and I feel this placement is sort of unfair to her, but I'm just not getting there on her at all yet, and that's probably a me problem, and I'd like to bridge the gap. Her tone is fine, she has made some efforts to solve, I just don't see them as genuine or anything yet and I can't place her emotions anywhere. I'm still sort of clueless as to why she's getting townread. She has 35 posts and I can't really tell anything AI at all in them personally, and that's a bit concerning.
Arete - I don't know whether I buy Arete's push on me or not still, something isn't squaring with me about it and I'm not sure how to clarify. The policy push on Dizzy is just bad at face value, but I'm not sure whether it makes them wolfy.
c4 - I think I can get somewhere to find c4, but as of now nothing. The reads list is somewhat opposed to mine, I'd like to try and figure out and reconcile some differences of opinion.
Gavial - Yikes, this ISO is a nothingburger. An easy d1 yeet candidate. I just don't think alignment can be assessed unless Gavial (Seth?) steps up his game. I also defer somewhat to you who know him better.
Hally - I'm sad to report this, but I'm not feeling Hally yet and I really need to talk to them. I appreciated their explanation of Arete's push of me but I'm having trouble seeing eye to eye with them about that. We agree about nutella and Vulgard, but I'm not really sure how Hally reached those conclusions enough to make a determination. I might GTH them town so they're probably the person in my POE I least want to vote out right now, but I still couldn't place them in the above category.
KZA - I'm not sure what to do with this ISO at this time. Help.
Marluxion - I'm not sure what to do with this ISO at this time. Help.
sunbae - This is the battle of my brain and my heart... for sunbae. My brain says sure, he's town, but my heart says no (and whacks the town read away), so I guess he drops to here? I'm not sure where to place him, maybe he needs his own "sunbae???" category. There are complex thoughts and gears turning, but I don't sense a town agenda yet. I'm not sure how to explain it, but it feels off to me, he doesn't emotionally match what 1 day we had in the Voxx 9er and I'm not sure I believed his thoughts on spf were real. I don't need him to like, spend time convincing me, I'm hoping and assuming a light switch will go off at some point.

I don't have enough of a sense to sort within tiers, so they're alphabetical for now. Maybe I'm concentrating too much on people I know and being fooled, lol.

These feel mostly like foggy thoughts outside of nutella, so this isn't presented in a way that's supposed to be anything but ranting (and trying to keep it short, oops) about a lot of cogs in motion, but due to the nature of this game and the post cap, I thought it'd be better to spectate and at least try and collect my thoughts to create a reads list and say some things, and then try to interact and post in a more preferred way.

Also, hi @Dyslexicon! I'd say sheep nutella if you'd like, I trust her and she seems to have an increasing handle on the game affairs. I am really excited to be on the same side here... I think it's true!? I hope.

like look at her dizzy read, it's not just based on meta, but how dizzy's interacting with tangy, the thread, and how he's treating a lhf

same with most of his town reads, even the ones i disagree with like alison

Tang made a solve here though.
@Arete

wow it's almost like that post was made after I made my initial read on them and thus that post couldn't have affected my read, seeing as I'm not capable of predicting the future

(that post does actually make me think she's more likely to be town, which I'm talking about in my catchup post, which I haven't posted yet because ... I am still catching up...)

[nutella]

Also on review of sunbae's ISO I find it lacking.

talk about this a bit more? I thought he looked good

[Hally]

...so the good news is that Gavial's town stocks are rapidly rising

Spoiler: show

the bad news is that Gavial's town stocks are rapidly rising

is that really all it takes? i’m not denying he’s getting better in the sense that he’s making posts but the posts still suck and don’t seem like v!him

I mean it's not at a lock yet but his posts make me want to repeatedly hit my head against the nearest wall which is usually a good sign that he's town

this is the opposite of what i wanted to hear

why

when I said 'Seth's meta is that when he's town it makes you want to bash your head against the wall' near SoD did you not believe me

i mean, i’ve seen his village game and i would say he usually makes people want to bang their heads against a wall by having wolf reads that he pushes aggressively without listening to anyone else and generally being all over the place

i’m not feeling that in his posts this game. he’s making me want to facepalm, not bash my head into a wall

[nutella]

IDK Marmot’s Town I guess

cool

[staypositivefriend]

IDK Marmot’s Town I guess

yeah, true

[Gavial]

...so the good news is that Gavial's town stocks are rapidly rising

Spoiler: show

the bad news is that Gavial's town stocks are rapidly rising

is that really all it takes? i’m not denying he’s getting better in the sense that he’s making posts but the posts still suck and don’t seem like v!him

I mean it's not at a lock yet but his posts make me want to repeatedly hit my head against the nearest wall which is usually a good sign that he's town

this is the opposite of what i wanted to hear

why

when I said 'Seth's meta is that when he's town it makes you want to bash your head against the wall' near SoD did you not believe me

i mean, i’ve seen his village game and i would say he usually makes people want to bang their heads against a wall by having wolf reads that he pushes aggressively without listening to anyone else and generally being all over the place

i’m not feeling that in his posts this game. he’s making me want to facepalm, not bash my head into a wall

I can do both as either alignment!

[nutella]

...so the good news is that Gavial's town stocks are rapidly rising

Spoiler: show

the bad news is that Gavial's town stocks are rapidly rising

is that really all it takes? i’m not denying he’s getting better in the sense that he’s making posts but the posts still suck and don’t seem like v!him

I mean it's not at a lock yet but his posts make me want to repeatedly hit my head against the nearest wall which is usually a good sign that he's town

this is the opposite of what i wanted to hear

why

when I said 'Seth's meta is that when he's town it makes you want to bash your head against the wall' near SoD did you not believe me

i mean, i’ve seen his village game and i would say he usually makes people want to bang their heads against a wall by having wolf reads that he pushes aggressively without listening to anyone else and generally being all over the place

i’m not feeling that in his posts this game. he’s making me want to facepalm, not bash my head into a wall

this is a fair distinction yeah

"facepalm" is more fitting with the times I've see him wolf lol