Princess Bride Mafia

[Long Con]

How many vanilla town should there be for good balance?

Town (11?)
Westley - Each night, Westley will roleblock someone, also cursing their posts the following day.

Buttercup - If Buttercup is nightkilled, there will be two eliminations on the following day, one occurring after 24 hours. If she is voted out by day, the following night will have double power-usage from all roles.

Inigo - Each night, Inigo will perform a nightkill.

Fezzik - Fezzik will survive the first nightkill to target him.

Miracle Max - Each night, Miracle Max will protect a player from death.

Valerie - Once in the game, Valerie will give a bulletproof vest to a player, which will protect that player from one nightkill.

Domingo - Once in the game, the spirit of Inigo's father will give the finest sword ever made to a player, who may then perform one Dayvig at the time of their choosing.

Some vanillas

Mafia (3)
Count Rugen - Each night, Count Rugen will roleblock someone, also cursing their posts the following day.

Prince Humperdinck - Each night, the Prince will target a player and find out their role.

The Albino - Twice in the game, the Albino can protect a teammate from a nightkill.

The mafia have a pseudo-Soup Kill that targets only the Inigo and Vizzini. If they can identify both, they can kill both.

Serial Killer (1)
Vizzini - Each night, Vizzini will perform a nightkill. Wins and retires upon reaching final 5.


100-post-limit days, closed nights with 1-hour twilight.

Blocked one-shot roles don't lose their item.

Serial killer, vigilante, and mafia team all kill every night. Mafia chooses their killer.

Doctors and roleblockers cannot choose the same target on consecutive nights.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Is claiming going to be legal?

[Long Con]

Is claiming going to be legal?

Oh yeah, frikkin' claiming. I guess it needs to be illegal?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Is claiming going to be legal?

Oh yeah, frikkin' claiming. I guess it needs to be illegal?

Not necessarily with vanillas involved, but I'll take a closer look in a wee bit.

[Gavial]

Is claiming going to be legal?

Oh yeah, frikkin' claiming. I guess it needs to be illegal?

Why don’t you make some more town roles and have 3 of the town roles not in play but instead used as mafia’s fake claims and if there is 1 mafia doesn’t want to claim they could always claim vanilla.

[Long Con]

Is claiming going to be legal?

Oh yeah, frikkin' claiming. I guess it needs to be illegal?

Why don’t you make some more town roles and have 3 of the town roles not in play but instead used as mafia’s fake claims and if there is 1 mafia doesn’t want to claim they could always claim vanilla.

There aren't really any extra characters I can use in the Princess Bride.

[Gavial]

Is claiming going to be legal?

Oh yeah, frikkin' claiming. I guess it needs to be illegal?

Why don’t you make some more town roles and have 3 of the town roles not in play but instead used as mafia’s fake claims and if there is 1 mafia doesn’t want to claim they could always claim vanilla.

There aren't really any extra characters I can use in the Princess Bride.

Aw man.
Alright.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Remind me to dig into this sucker when I am back from my trip in a few days.

[Long Con]

Remind me to dig into this sucker when I am back from my trip in a few days.

I will, thank you!

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Remind me to dig into this sucker when I am back from my trip in a few days.

I will, thank you!

I definitely need to dig since this game is suddenly next up in the queue (after some passes).

[Long Con]

Remind me to dig into this sucker when I am back from my trip in a few days.

I will, thank you!

I definitely need to dig since this game is suddenly next up in the queue (after some passes).

LOL I didn't realize I was even in line yet. Fine though. What's the problem with a nonclaiming game? Too archaic?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

LOL I didn't realize I was even in line yet. Fine though. What's the problem with a nonclaiming game? Too archaic?

I personally have no problem with them. I like them even.

Some of the newer crowd could be less enthusiastic. The important thing, I think, is that any and all gray area be obliterated. Role hinting is the same as role claiming. If anyone tries to skirt the line they get punished.

If you're not inclined toward that kind of hardline approach, a soup kill might be better.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Whatever you choose though, balance is impacted -- and that influences my view on the number of vanillas that would be most ideal.

[Long Con]

Nonclaiming with a hinting modkill.

Roles are simply for functionality, not thread currency. If you want to be seen as town, you have to earn it.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Nonclaiming with a hinting modkill.

Roles are simply for functionality, not thread currency. If you want to be seen as town, you have to earn it.

Word. I like the spirit of that. So I think you'll need to be quite specific in your game rules about what is and is not kosher. Long-time Syndicate players are very accustomed to this and know what's expected, but for other folk this is a foreign thing and it might be hard for them to understand what they can actually do without a lot of explicit clarity.

For example, it should be against the rules to say "I know X, but I cannot say why." -- that's a hint. Even "I think X is mafia, but I cannot say why." is a hint. Instead everything must be based on the content visible in the game thread and only the content visible in the game thread.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

With this is in mind, a game with claiming illegal is better for the mafia than a game with legal claiming. As such, I think the game balance should account for that as much as reasonably possible.

Most open claim-friendly games with numerous non-vanilla roles will trend toward 3:1 to 3.5:1 town:mafia ratios, I think. With claims illegal, I think you can justify a ratio closer to 4:1. You're already in that general vicinity at 11:3:1, so that's a good thing.

This is all apart from looking at the roles themselves, so I can do that separately (if you want me to do so).

[Long Con]

With this is in mind, a game with claiming illegal is better for the mafia than a game with legal claiming. As such, I think the game balance should account for that as much as reasonably possible.

Most open claim-friendly games with numerous non-vanilla roles will trend toward 3:1 to 3.5:1 town:mafia ratios, I think. With claims illegal, I think you can justify a ratio closer to 4:1. You're already in that general vicinity at 11:3:1, so that's a good thing.

This is all apart from looking at the roles themselves, so I can do that separately (if you want me to do so).

Right on, thanks for the input! I'll do it that way. Players just have to be able to invest in the spirit of the game. Lord knows I have dealt with so many boundary-pushers in the anti-claiming past.

I wouldn't mind you looking at the roles. I wanted a lots-of-killing game, so three kills a night plus a dayvig. Some of the roles are made with claiming in mind, like having the janitor and the rolecop, so maybe those should change... then Fezzik would also change. And the Inigo-Vizzini Soup Kill.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Yes, the first thing I noticed was the mass killing power. That'll almost certainly decide the game, and maybe before it even sees a Night 3.

From a balance perspective, town has too many kills. On a per-cycle basis as long as the vigilante and day vigilante are alive, town has more than double their usual capacity to kill mafia and the serial killer. If you don't want to weaken them given the flavor they offer, I would suggest giving the mafia at least one more way to protect themselves. The SK doesn't need protection with the current win condition.

The role cop still has a lot of value to mafia, I think. Maybe the janitor can also be a limited shot mafia doctor or something.

[Long Con]

Love it.

There are two roleblockers, one doctor, and one vest-giver in the mix to mitigate the killing a little.

[Long Con]

Also changed Fezzik: Fezzik will survive the first nightkill to target him.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

You have Racket Hosting privileges, so take it away as soon as you're ready.