Cindy Kate & Percy Date Night Mafia <3 [ENDGAME]

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Plus there's clearly at least one maybe more trap role in the game, that effects balance too

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

But also assuming too high is better than too low, so if you want to assume 6 go for it!

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

shouldn't it be 6?

It's usually 25% wolves.

the existence of third party roles and other unknown mechanics makes that ratio more of a guideline than a hard rule.

Why is everyone convinced there's 3p?

The OP probably

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

And its Marmot, he loves a good 3p

Idk dizzy's opinion on 3p

[Seanzie]

shouldn't it be 6?

It's usually 25% wolves.

the existence of third party roles and other unknown mechanics makes that ratio more of a guideline than a hard rule.

Why is everyone convinced there's 3p?

Uhh... because I'm 3p poisoner. Duh!

No, in more serious news, because the OP hints there could be, and in large games like this on TS 3p are very common I think.

[Allcrab]

shouldn't it be 6?

It's usually 25% wolves.

the existence of third party roles and other unknown mechanics makes that ratio more of a guideline than a hard rule.

Why is everyone convinced there's 3p?

The OP probably

People read that?

[Sloonei]

shouldn't it be 6?

It's usually 25% wolves.

the existence of third party roles and other unknown mechanics makes that ratio more of a guideline than a hard rule.

Why is everyone convinced there's 3p?

Factions

• Some townies
• One mafia team
• Maybe some 3Ps

[Sloonei]

And also every big syndicate game ever has included at least one 3p

[Guillotine]

Also every time I read LongCon's posts his avatar looks like a dragon but it's not and I'm confused

You get to have a townlock for this beautiful comment.

Long Con looks bad here, contributes to Made's wagon close to EoD after acknowledging that he is not aware of what Made was being suspected for.

https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 85#p795385

I've posted this three times, I dont remember him addressing it.

@Long Con

I can't find this post where he claims I acknowledged unawareness.

The link is the post....

And you just replied like this instead of actually addressing it? Why did you vote Made instead of voting Nutella if you didnt know what was the case on Made in the first place?
There was ample evidence against Nutella and you made your vote look like you didnt care who was yeeted, so why not place it on Nutella instead of Made who you didnt know anything about?

"I'll check out that Made vote"... I don't understand why you think that implies I don't know anything about Made? To me, it is synonymous with "I'll lay a vote down on Made", or "I'll join in on the Made voting fun".

It was a pretty arbitrary decision. I probably had some sympathy for nutella.

Because it implies you were willing to vote off nutella or owner's wagons without even having considered Made for a vote before. 7 players was pushing Made for his "shady" vote on Nutella and used it as an excuse to make Made the CW to Nutella, that was the reason that you were clearly not aware of.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

shouldn't it be 6?

It's usually 25% wolves.

the existence of third party roles and other unknown mechanics makes that ratio more of a guideline than a hard rule.

Why is everyone convinced there's 3p?

The OP probably

People read that?

More people should its quote well written

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Quite even

[Guillotine]

It sounds like you decided to push one view regarding my alignment on Day 1 and have not bothered to re-evaluate or show any kind of genuine curiosity about my alignment or even read through my content to update your view of me since then.

I don't really want to change my mind on my reads easily, otherwise wolves could easily manipulate me from changing my read on them.

So you don't believe in re-evaluation?

[Seanzie]

Quite even

Can I quite you on this?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

In a roundabout way I think Gavial’s presumed block may have become undervalued. It’s not conclusive, and it’s not a red check. But it is important, and unless new evidence arises to the contrary it should be viewed as a legitimate point against hawk. I just want this out there moving forward.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Quite even

Can I quite you on this?

I hate nested quilts

[Seanzie]

In a roundabout way I think Gavial’s presumed block may have become undervalued. It’s not conclusive, and it’s not a red check. But it is important, and unless new evidence arises to the contrary it should be viewed as a legitimate point against hawk. I just want this out there moving forward.

I do agree with this, especially since if everyone is telling the truth (ish), there isn't room for both a doc and a NK to have targeted JJJ, so it is not a crazy thought that a kill could have been blocked.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Quite even

Can I quite you on this?

I think you just did

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I put no stock in Gavial's mechanical claims about you, if it helps. It is a non-factor in my read of you.
What is your read of him?

Fair enough

I have been avoiding commenting on him because my only experience with him is a game I'm currently modding on MafC - I will let you know once it ends tho

Now that the game referenced here is over, this is part of why I'm tring hawk. Coupled with the followup, i think they're >rand town

[hawkataine]

Can’t be around for day end as I have to go climbing, apologies
Don’t suddenly decide to yeet me
Etc etc

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@Allcrab is your role precisely the same as lost monkeys; that is, you’re not a standard watcher? Instead you the number of people from each community targeting someone?

Forgive me if you’ve already clarified this and I missed it.

[Guillotine]

What is owner is the Matchmaker

"Twice per game during the night, you may try and make two players lovers. This ability is only successful on people of the same faction. You will know when you target at least one non-town role despite the outcome.

You win when the town loses."

[Guillotine]

what if

[Sloonei]

What is owner is the Matchmaker

"Twice per game during the night, you may try and make two players lovers. This ability is only successful on people of the same faction. You will know when you target at least one non-town role despite the outcome.

You win when the town loses."

Interesting

[Seanzie]

What is owner is the Matchmaker

"Twice per game during the night, you may try and make two players lovers. This ability is only successful on people of the same faction. You will know when you target at least one non-town role despite the outcome.

You win when the town loses."

So this is essentially a blind lost wolf that doesn't count for pairity and doesn't need to die for a town win (maybe?) but can alignment check two per night with the possible drawback that it gives BTSC to people that you might not want to get BTSC?

If we knew for sure Owner was this, I might think about saying we should chop elsewhere since they don't count for parity and we may win with them, but since we don't know this, and it is a scum-siding role whose flip could possibly clear JJJ and Gav, I'd still chop Owner.

[Sloonei]

What is owner is the Matchmaker

"Twice per game during the night, you may try and make two players lovers. This ability is only successful on people of the same faction. You will know when you target at least one non-town role despite the outcome.

You win when the town loses."

So this is essentially a blind lost wolf that doesn't count for pairity and doesn't need to die for a town win (maybe?) but can alignment check two per night with the possible drawback that it gives BTSC to people that you might not want to get BTSC?

If we knew for sure Owner was this, I might think about saying we should chop elsewhere since they don't count for parity and we may win with them, but since we don't know this, and it is a scum-siding role whose flip could possibly clear JJJ and Gav, I'd still chop Owner.

I would think that that role, exactly as it is described by Guillotine, would be a third party independent and not affiliated with the mafia team at all.

[Guillotine]

It is a third party role

[Seanzie]

What is owner is the Matchmaker

"Twice per game during the night, you may try and make two players lovers. This ability is only successful on people of the same faction. You will know when you target at least one non-town role despite the outcome.

You win when the town loses."

So this is essentially a blind lost wolf that doesn't count for pairity and doesn't need to die for a town win (maybe?) but can alignment check two per night with the possible drawback that it gives BTSC to people that you might not want to get BTSC?

If we knew for sure Owner was this, I might think about saying we should chop elsewhere since they don't count for parity and we may win with them, but since we don't know this, and it is a scum-siding role whose flip could possibly clear JJJ and Gav, I'd still chop Owner.

I would think that that role, exactly as it is described by Guillotine, would be a third party independent and not affiliated with the mafia team at all.

Well, sure. I meant functionally. That is why I said they don't count for parity and don't need to die for a town win (maybe).

Aside from that though, the only distinction between calling them 3p vs mafia is purely semantic, as the label one way or the other does not affect the game at all.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Could be anything. Can be a standard mafia role and "non-town" refers to independents. Turning two town into lovers has plenty of pro-mafia utility.

This is all guessing anyway.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I bet these off-wagon voters are trying to save Owner!

[Seanzie]

I bet these off-wagon voters are trying to save Owner!

Should we CFD a 22-way tie to help them out?

[Guillotine]

What is owner is the Matchmaker

"Twice per game during the night, you may try and make two players lovers. This ability is only successful on people of the same faction. You will know when you target at least one non-town role despite the outcome.

You win when the town loses."

So this is essentially a blind lost wolf that doesn't count for pairity and doesn't need to die for a town win (maybe?) but can alignment check two per night with the possible drawback that it gives BTSC to people that you might not want to get BTSC?

If we knew for sure Owner was this, I might think about saying we should chop elsewhere since they don't count for parity and we may win with them, but since we don't know this, and it is a scum-siding role whose flip could possibly clear JJJ and Gav, I'd still chop Owner.

I would think that that role, exactly as it is described by Guillotine, would be a third party independent and not affiliated with the mafia team at all.

Well, sure. I meant functionally. That is why I said they don't count for parity and don't need to die for a town win (maybe).

Aside from that though, the only distinction between calling them 3p vs mafia is purely semantic, as the label one way or the other does not affect the game at all.

It is optimal play to scum side as third party. For this very reason even if Owner claimed third party, I would chop her.

I feel bad because I invited her to play here but everything points at her being scum.

[Allcrab]

@Allcrab is your role precisely the same as lost monkeys; that is, you’re not a standard watcher? Instead you the number of people from each community targeting someone?

Forgive me if you’ve already clarified this and I missed it.

Correct.

[Actvscenei]

What is owner is the Matchmaker

"Twice per game during the night, you may try and make two players lovers. This ability is only successful on people of the same faction. You will know when you target at least one non-town role despite the outcome.

You win when the town loses."

So this is essentially a blind lost wolf that doesn't count for pairity and doesn't need to die for a town win (maybe?) but can alignment check two per night with the possible drawback that it gives BTSC to people that you might not want to get BTSC?

If we knew for sure Owner was this, I might think about saying we should chop elsewhere since they don't count for parity and we may win with them, but since we don't know this, and it is a scum-siding role whose flip could possibly clear JJJ and Gav, I'd still chop Owner.

Maybe I’m reading it wrong, but if Owner is that, her best interest is in us losing. It says that role wins when town loses.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@Allcrab is your role precisely the same as lost monkeys; that is, you’re not a standard watcher? Instead you the number of people from each community targeting someone?

Forgive me if you’ve already clarified this and I missed it.

Correct.

Okay that's not nearly as powerful as a proper watcher then.

I'm going to consider this to be irrelevant to alignment. You two can both be town or be one of each or both be mafia. Hosts like to institute duplicates sometimes to punish players who would solve them instead of each other.

[Seanzie]

What is owner is the Matchmaker

"Twice per game during the night, you may try and make two players lovers. This ability is only successful on people of the same faction. You will know when you target at least one non-town role despite the outcome.

You win when the town loses."

So this is essentially a blind lost wolf that doesn't count for pairity and doesn't need to die for a town win (maybe?) but can alignment check two per night with the possible drawback that it gives BTSC to people that you might not want to get BTSC?

If we knew for sure Owner was this, I might think about saying we should chop elsewhere since they don't count for parity and we may win with them, but since we don't know this, and it is a scum-siding role whose flip could possibly clear JJJ and Gav, I'd still chop Owner.

I would think that that role, exactly as it is described by Guillotine, would be a third party independent and not affiliated with the mafia team at all.

Well, sure. I meant functionally. That is why I said they don't count for parity and don't need to die for a town win (maybe).

Aside from that though, the only distinction between calling them 3p vs mafia is purely semantic, as the label one way or the other does not affect the game at all.

It is optimal play to scum side as third party. For this very reason even if Owner claimed third party, I would chop her.

I feel bad because I invited her to play here but everything points at her being scum.

Eh this is a statement that is probably more often true than not, but is far from always true. Probably better for a post-game discussion though since for the specific 3p you brought up, it is definitely true that it is optimal to scumside.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Preemptive props to Owner, assuming a mafia flip, for ensuring her Day 2 content will be difficult to read for interactions. Calling the confirmed non-mafia third party isn't going to be super illuminating.

[Seanzie]

What is owner is the Matchmaker

"Twice per game during the night, you may try and make two players lovers. This ability is only successful on people of the same faction. You will know when you target at least one non-town role despite the outcome.

You win when the town loses."

So this is essentially a blind lost wolf that doesn't count for pairity and doesn't need to die for a town win (maybe?) but can alignment check two per night with the possible drawback that it gives BTSC to people that you might not want to get BTSC?

If we knew for sure Owner was this, I might think about saying we should chop elsewhere since they don't count for parity and we may win with them, but since we don't know this, and it is a scum-siding role whose flip could possibly clear JJJ and Gav, I'd still chop Owner.

Maybe I’m reading it wrong, but if Owner is that, her best interest is in us losing. It says that role wins when town loses.

Yes, I agree. That is why I said the role is essentially a wolf with restrctions (doesn't count for pairity, etc). Some 3p are truly independent, but this specific one I personally would be hesitant to even call truly 3p since their wincon is essentially just the standard mafia wincon, rather than something independent of either team's wincon.

[lost monkey]

@Allcrab is your role precisely the same as lost monkeys; that is, you’re not a standard watcher? Instead you the number of people from each community targeting someone?

Forgive me if you’ve already clarified this and I missed it.

Correct.

Okay that's not nearly as powerful as a proper watcher then.

I'm going to consider this to be irrelevant to alignment. You two can both be town or be one of each or both be mafia. Hosts like to institute duplicates sometimes to punish players who would solve them instead of each other.

lol the mafia's modified watcher died D1.

[Guillotine]

What is owner is the Matchmaker

"Twice per game during the night, you may try and make two players lovers. This ability is only successful on people of the same faction. You will know when you target at least one non-town role despite the outcome.

You win when the town loses."

So this is essentially a blind lost wolf that doesn't count for pairity and doesn't need to die for a town win (maybe?) but can alignment check two per night with the possible drawback that it gives BTSC to people that you might not want to get BTSC?

If we knew for sure Owner was this, I might think about saying we should chop elsewhere since they don't count for parity and we may win with them, but since we don't know this, and it is a scum-siding role whose flip could possibly clear JJJ and Gav, I'd still chop Owner.

I would think that that role, exactly as it is described by Guillotine, would be a third party independent and not affiliated with the mafia team at all.

Well, sure. I meant functionally. That is why I said they don't count for parity and don't need to die for a town win (maybe).

Aside from that though, the only distinction between calling them 3p vs mafia is purely semantic, as the label one way or the other does not affect the game at all.

It is optimal play to scum side as third party. For this very reason even if Owner claimed third party, I would chop her.

I feel bad because I invited her to play here but everything points at her being scum.

Eh this is a statement that is probably more often true than not, but is far from always true. Probably better for a post-game discussion though since for the specific 3p you brought up, it is definitely true that it is optimal to scumside.

I cant read in the glow.

In my experience, unless the role says that the 3p wins with town, they all have to scum side to win.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

lol the mafia's modified watcher died D1.

She modified kills, not watches.

[Guillotine]

@Allcrab is your role precisely the same as lost monkeys; that is, you’re not a standard watcher? Instead you the number of people from each community targeting someone?

Forgive me if you’ve already clarified this and I missed it.

Correct.

Okay that's not nearly as powerful as a proper watcher then.

I'm going to consider this to be irrelevant to alignment. You two can both be town or be one of each or both be mafia. Hosts like to institute duplicates sometimes to punish players who would solve them instead of each other.

lol the mafia's modified watcher died D1.

Nope. Factional kill modifier did.

[Actvscenei]

Owner claimed Cupid. This is the role info I got from MU after a Google search:

“The Cupid is a third party-aligned role that once per game on any night may choose two players to become Lovers. These players will then begin to share a private chat and if at any point one of them dies, the other player will instantly die as well. They are, however, not informed of each other's roles. If both Lovers survive until the end of the game, the Cupid wins.”

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Theory:

This game is filled with duplicate rolls split along community lines (1 Syndicate and 1 PerC per role). This wouldn't refer to every role and shouldn't imply much about alignment, but there ya go.

[Guillotine]

Im confident she is matchmaker of sorts. Ive never seen a fruit vendor that targets two people.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Theory:

This game is filled with duplicate rolls split along community lines (1 Syndicate and 1 PerC per role). This wouldn't refer to every role and shouldn't imply much about alignment, but there ya go.

Allcrab and lost monkey are both PerC. I'm dumb.

Anyway.

[Seanzie]

Theory:

This game is filled with duplicate rolls split along community lines (1 Syndicate and 1 PerC per role). This wouldn't refer to every role and shouldn't imply much about alignment, but there ya go.

I had the same thought last night, but Allcrab and LoMo are both MafC.

[lost monkey]

lol the mafia's modified watcher died D1.

She modified kills, not watches.

ah okay, cool. I would still say allcrab is town.

[Actvscenei]

Im confident she is matchmaker of sorts. Ive never seen a fruit vendor that targets two people.

What about Cupid though? That’s what she claimed and I quoted the info above this post.

[lost monkey]

@Allcrab Did yours include you or not?

[Guillotine]

Which is funny because Owner suspects Tangy of being exactly 3p.