Cindy Kate & Percy Date Night Mafia <3 [ENDGAME]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I considered Sloonei for crankiness. Perhaps he's had isolated moments of crank.

[Guillotine]

I also kind of looked at a few people to see if there was evidence of Gnome!Pocketing since I think that is not an uncommon thing for mafia to do. Maybe I am just wrong about Gnome and she is mafia, but if she is town, there almost assuredly have been mafia trying to pocket her since she's too nice to refuse a warm pocket.

Dana and Mac were two people that I got a sense of this from in the first page of their ISO. Not a strong sense, but just something. If Dana is doing this, it was probably suggested in wolf chat, which might fit the coaching aspect that Made mentioned.

I never can read Gnome.

[Guillotine]

Another open question for non-Long Cons:

Does Long Con really read hawkataine as town?

I don't know much about LongCon, I just don't see LongCon hinting an alibi on scum!Hawk if LC was scum, wolves would be distancing at this point, not defending the other so openly I think. I need more info though, but if his claim is true, we cannot risk outing his target(s) for the sake of more info.

[Guillotine]

I'm willing to compromise for a consensus elimination between Hawk and Martin.

[Guillotine]

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME sup with Martin

......Are people going to ignore the fact that Hawk is claiming 2-shot healer and the easiest way to test this is to see if Long Con dies or not?

I bet my slot that Long Con dies. I strongly believe my 1-shot capability implies there's no fake poisons. And since the only other Healer claim is Hawk at this point, I think that fact is even more likely. @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, If you somehow believe Hawk (or just simply think I'm not town) then the correct action here is to delete me a day later.

Also

[VOTE: Hawkatine] aubergine

If you want us to verify Hawk's claim, why are you voting her?

I never said that *I* wanted that.

I said for other people's perspectives, that's the correct action.

Me? I think the truth is preety obvious.

To be fair I don't entirely understand what's going on here.

I'll clarify: I don't think there's two healers, much less with different shot amounts.

If the poisoner is 3P, and there's two healers (with a collective 3 shots) for some god-forsaken-reason, then I have no clue why the 3P is granted no meaningful extra-mechanical effect or advantage (towards their ends as a result of themselves) on the game until EoD3. Or, if the healers are town and mafia aligned; and that the mafia healer only heals mafia (either intentionally or per role limitation), then the theoretical 3P Poisoner in a different hypothetical scenario (where both healers had not died before using their abilities) could be delayed up to EoD4.

This could be delayed even more if the poisoner and mafia night-kill happen to coincide.

Which, when considering the above for a game of this size with my limited experience, seems absurd and intends to make the 3P Poisoner a glorified survivor. They could go almost (if not the entirety of) the whole game without having any sort of mechanical effect, and they could just lose the game if they got off on simply the wrong foot. I'm inclined to think the poisoner is Mafia, and they have limited shots just as a 1-shot healer does. That being probably Hawk given their claim.

There's only one healer, and for anyone who doubts me they can test who the real healer is by seeing Long Con die. Me? I don't have to test that. I know who the healer is, and its not Hawk.

I believe this

[VOTE: HAWK] aubergine

[Sloonei]

@Sloonei what is your present impression of hawk?

I have read nothing of Day 3. Hawk is a player I have suspected since Day 1.

This reads cranky.

No it doesn’t.

[Sloonei]

I just have no new thoughts on hawk right now. She has been a suspect since Day 1.

I worked and then celebrated a birthday all day today. I have not kept up with things in here.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I just have no new thoughts on hawk right now. She has been a suspect since Day 1.

I worked and then celebrated a birthday all day today. I have not kept up with things in here.

Any new thoughts on other things?

[Garden Gnome]

@Garden Gnome

Gth who could be scum between Hawk and Martin?

I have to say that I needed to ISO Martin because he hasn't made too much of an impression on me. Hawk definitely has more of a presence than Martin in this game. I'm not sure if having a presence means a town presence. I've seen players have an amazing presence. They definitely come off as town, but then turn out to be scum.

So I did ISO Martin and I thought that he came across as appearing to solve. He did engage with other players, but there's something that just pings me about him. I'm not sure what it is, and this is very much a tone read, but I would say that he is more likely to be scum than Hawk.

[Sloonei]

I just have no new thoughts on hawk right now. She has been a suspect since Day 1.

I worked and then celebrated a birthday all day today. I have not kept up with things in here.

Any new thoughts on other things?

I am pleased that the thread seems to have arrived at another strong consensus in hawk.

I am mildly disappointed that I did not get to use my role last night, but the game is going well enough that it’s no big deal.

[Guillotine]

Oh, so like... probably... Hawk is actually a mafia 1-shot healer, and didn't use their shot yesterday on Alison so they still have it, and thought they might be able to clear themselves by healing LC today, but then if Hawk claimed 1-shot healer, there would have been serious questions about why he still had a shot left, so they had to claim 2-shot.

I can see it.

[Guillotine]

I'm kind of flipping back and forth between current day and reading back

My thoughts on the healer thing is that I don't see any reason we can't have multiple healers when we now know that there have been multiple poisons, that obviously doesn't mean anything for the alignment of each one so that's an important thing to remember

The one thing that sticks out is 1-shot and 2-shot claims. I have no real reason for thinking this but I think they would both be 1 or both be 2 OR are different Alignments if both real. It just seems kinda random to give town a 1 shot and a 2 shot of the same role instead of just two 1 shots or a 3 shot. Maybe it's my ocd lol

Anyway I'm more concern with Gnome and Mac at the current times

Did you see my post to Hawk? I asked her some questions and brought up some things that don’t make sense to me. Can you make sense of my concerns?

I think they think they wasted a shot because Alison was already healed by Martin so they both healed the same person which would mean one shot was wasted.

But then instead of saying that it kind of looks like they think they wasted a shot because they were roleblocked but I don't think that would affect a day action lol

So it's all a bit confusiong and doesn't really make sense as an entire post

I do agree a shot was wasted though if both targeted Alison

Do you think both healers are town aligned?

[Guillotine]

Here is something that is bugging me though. If Hawk is scum, why claim that she is a healer after seeing Martin's healer claim. Why not just look for a better fake claim, is not like she was in danger to be hammered (as there is no hammer) and this is a closed set up where you can make up a role.
Is Hawk the suicidal type? Did she just give up? Does scum perform this kind of play after losing two teammates to the axe the previous days?

And then there is Martin. If he is scum why claim healer first knowing that he will be counterclaimed, unless he did it to bait the real claim but why, again, after losing two teammates I'd suppose they'd be more careful about that. Both claiming actions don't make any sense if you are playing to your win condition as a wolf, it only make sense if you are scum and baiting the healer out is necessary to have a chance at survival, or if you are just town.

Can they both be both town healers? I doubt it, it does not make sense but it could be.

I'm tempted to propose to yeet outside those claims actually and the healers be resolved at night. Maybe.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I highly doubt the mafia will kill a poison healer with no shots, so I’m not sure that resolves at night.

I honestly don’t even see the controversy here. If hawk isn’t a healer it’s a fake claim and she’s mafia. If hawk is a healer, it has no bearing on her alignment.

So assess her play for its own sake. I think she has played this phase especially like a mafioso. It’s almost identical to Day 2 so far when Owner couldn’t bring herself to sustain any real presence.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

At this point I think solving efforts need to be elsewhere. If this day poops away on a complacent hawk chop, then we maximize the mafia’s comfort level even if she’s one of them.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@bad bunny, how do you feel about the possibility that Allcrab is mafia and has been defending you hard to fulfill what he thinks is expected of him as town?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@Dana, would you be able and willing to provide a reads list? It doesn’t have to be super detailed, just your raw reads would be helpful.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@lost monkey do you have any doubts about Allcrab, either for his claim or in general?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@MartinGG99 a reads list from you would also go a long way.

[Dana]

@Dana, would you be able and willing to provide a reads list? It doesn’t have to be super detailed, just your raw reads would be helpful.

Yes for sure, just got a lil busy with the real life but Ive been planning to work on a reads list sometime during this day phase

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Just gonna throw out there that my current belief is that @Garden Gnome and I have the same role. I have no reason to say that makes her town.

I won’t expand on this for the time being. It may inform theories of duplicates.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@Dana, would you be able and willing to provide a reads list? It doesn’t have to be super detailed, just your raw reads would be helpful.

Yes for sure, just got a lil busy with the real life but Ive been planning to work on a reads list sometime during this day phase

I’d be most appreciative. I’m less confident about you than I’d like to be, and this’ll help.

[Dana]

Did gnome hint at a role anywhere or do you have a different reason for believing you're the same role?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Who else can I tag to wake the game up?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Did gnome hint at a role anywhere or do you have a different reason for believing you're the same role?

No further comment for now.

[Dana]

Ok valid

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@Sloonei I could actually do with a better idea of your reads too. I know some of them, but less about your broader view of the game.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

A general hawk gripe that occurs to me: when Gavial tunneled her with his block, a good portion of her responses related to whether or not the mafia team would actually send her to do the kill. This is not really the right mindset, or at least not the one I see more often from falsely redded town. The more common theme is No. /end argument

Act’s response to Seanzie’s fake red today is more along those lines for example.

[Sloonei]

@Sloonei I could actually do with a better idea of your reads too. I know some of them, but less about your broader view of the game.

I have not done the work necessary to develop a broader view of this game. We've been cruising right along and I'm asleep at the wheel. I had a plan for today which was thwarted by the roleblock.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@Sloonei I could actually do with a better idea of your reads too. I know some of them, but less about your broader view of the game.

I have not done the work necessary to develop a broader view of this game. We've been cruising right along and I'm asleep at the wheel. I had a plan for today which was thwarted by the roleblock.

Do you need night actions to have reads

[Sloonei]

@Sloonei I could actually do with a better idea of your reads too. I know some of them, but less about your broader view of the game.

I have not done the work necessary to develop a broader view of this game. We've been cruising right along and I'm asleep at the wheel. I had a plan for today which was thwarted by the roleblock.

Do you need night actions to have reads

Nope. I was just hoping to cut some corners.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I’ll be gone all day. Don’t give everyone reasons to be tinfoily.

[Alison]

Here is something that is bugging me though. If Hawk is scum, why claim that she is a healer after seeing Martin's healer claim. Why not just look for a better fake claim, is not like she was in danger to be hammered (as there is no hammer) and this is a closed set up where you can make up a role.
Is Hawk the suicidal type? Did she just give up? Does scum perform this kind of play after losing two teammates to the axe the previous days?

And then there is Martin. If he is scum why claim healer first knowing that he will be counterclaimed, unless he did it to bait the real claim but why, again, after losing two teammates I'd suppose they'd be more careful about that. Both claiming actions don't make any sense if you are playing to your win condition as a wolf, it only make sense if you are scum and baiting the healer out is necessary to have a chance at survival, or if you are just town.

Can they both be both town healers? I doubt it, it does not make sense but it could be.

I'm tempted to propose to yeet outside those claims actually and the healers be resolved at night. Maybe.

Because she's a mafia poison healer.

[Actvscenei]

Here is something that is bugging me though. If Hawk is scum, why claim that she is a healer after seeing Martin's healer claim. Why not just look for a better fake claim, is not like she was in danger to be hammered (as there is no hammer) and this is a closed set up where you can make up a role.
Is Hawk the suicidal type? Did she just give up? Does scum perform this kind of play after losing two teammates to the axe the previous days?

And then there is Martin. If he is scum why claim healer first knowing that he will be counterclaimed, unless he did it to bait the real claim but why, again, after losing two teammates I'd suppose they'd be more careful about that. Both claiming actions don't make any sense if you are playing to your win condition as a wolf, it only make sense if you are scum and baiting the healer out is necessary to have a chance at survival, or if you are just town.

Can they both be both town healers? I doubt it, it does not make sense but it could be.

I'm tempted to propose to yeet outside those claims actually and the healers be resolved at night. Maybe.

Hawk would make that claim to avoid a risk of a more damming cc. By claiming healer, Hawk knows the other claim and can control the situation more. Hawk, as scum, would feel the pressure and stress more with the suspicions and claim from Galvin who flipped town.

[MacDougall]

idg why Martin has votes?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

idg why Martin has votes?

@Seanzie @Long Con @Garden Gnome have a go

[bad bunny]

I mean, what happened aligns with my theory that one of them was coming out of there dead. I just happened to think Gavial was the scum. When Owner flipped Cupid, it all but confirmed she was the one who set the date up. The fact that Cupid was mafia aligned makes sense that someone came out dead. I had an idea that the action would be like Guillo’s torturer/neighborizer role, but wondered how it would work when an outside party connected two others. What Jay is suggesting makes sense to me. Logically, it clears. At least in my mind.

Actv, you're here!

Tell me about your night!

Uneventful — just watched some Golden Girls haha

I didn't think Kito would be into Golden Girls, but people will surprise you.

Why does Kito matter?? Lol

Do I have to spell it out for you? I know what you did last night.

spicyyy

[bad bunny]

my scum read on hawk is similar to my read on gnome btw i dont think they have been able to successfully generate genuine content and are leaning on things like flavor and in hawks case picking on obvious jokes trying to shade them

as for macdougal for those that were playing the last game on mafia cafe he is giving me solvis vibes, i was able to get solvis easily because of his annoying approach to the thread which seemed to be an attempt at derailing actual town activity from taking place.

interesting take, a bit pingy though

[bad bunny]

[VOTE: Actv] aubergine

Wtf...I literally didn’t do anything last night. Either you’re lying or you were given wrong information.

It's funny, I actually made you "trend up" on my legacy reads because I wanted to see if the wolves would take the bait and let you carry the kill, assuming they didn't kill me. Did this factor into your decisions in wolf chat? I'm genuinely curious.

Unless mafia went into full blown deep wolf mode by straight up bussing Owner out of no where (which I don’t think happened), you were given wrong information. I don’t see why else you’d make this up. Please consider that before you start pushing for my yeet. I literally just posted a bunch of Golden Girls gifs in my discord.

owner absolutely got bussed

[orangecrush]

my scum read on hawk is similar to my read on gnome btw i dont think they have been able to successfully generate genuine content and are leaning on things like flavor and in hawks case picking on obvious jokes trying to shade them

I appreciate your initial efforts, OC. Can you recall a couple examples off hand of these, maybe one for each of hawk and Gnome?

Everyone quick vote AllCrab before he gets into thread!
If he’s yeeted Anyone who voted them gets free town credit tomorrow!

This post Concerned me but also I get the impression that's just the gavial vibe lmao

i haaate post like this first of all. its things i really dont like and use to identify scum in on tightly rolled up short post and thats slight shade by expressing concern over a player but not running wiht it (maybe hoping someone else will), followed by immediete backtreacking in that theyre expreissing concern and immedeietly reasoning with it which ultimately leads me to what is the point of this post other than being filler (pointsless post because it was clearly a joke andt the point is immediegely withdrawnbut the post is still posted) shade withoit the need forownership.

Hell no. I'm gone for 6 hours and there are ten pages to read?

tlDr, gimme the summary.

I can't recall what precisely has happened within that 10 page window, but if you'd like an easier way to integrate into the current thread: I'd appreciate if you could look specifically at PerC people and share your views.

Uhhhmmm I have something to confess... I'm not from Perc...or rather, I am from Perc as much as I am from here.

I've played two games there and hosted one at PerC, same for here minus hosting a game....

I just wanted a date cause I'm lonely as hell, so lonely that I play mafia at a forum with other lonely nerdy people.

I know how you feel. About wanting a date, not about being from the Syndicate. This is my first time on this site. I'm from PerC. It's there that I played Mafia for the first time. They've become accustomed to my somewhat erratic (and enthusiastic) play style. They still sometimes call me scum for my play style or claim that they can't read me, which is an odd thing because reads are my area of weakness, not necessarily theirs. I came here to look for a date who would be understanding of my eccentricities and my odd play style. And my slowness to form reads. I don't have any reads yet, probably because people are coming across as too anxious to find a date and, therefore, very guarded and not open. I am seeing shells and not players so the reads aren't there.

I am looking for an date who can be better at reads and who might need a partner who is good at being spontaneous and a little eccentric. Together, this date and I will complete each other. What are you looking for?

this post came in the middst of a lot of people trying to make real headway in the game and just stuck out like a sore thumb to me because it obviously leaned deeply into flavor and seeme d to want to toy with peoples emotions. The post itsself didn't serve any real progress in terms of progressing the game . i have adressed my read on gnome and her difficult getting into the game and am assured their play will pick up the more i read , gnome felt very concerned about my read of them which also stuck my as alittle suspicious and tmiish.

ill continue to try and get through content today anyway and see if it changes where im at

[orangecrush]

I'm kind of flipping back and forth between current day and reading back

My thoughts on the healer thing is that I don't see any reason we can't have multiple healers when we now know that there have been multiple poisons, that obviously doesn't mean anything for the alignment of each one so that's an important thing to remember

The one thing that sticks out is 1-shot and 2-shot claims. I have no real reason for thinking this but I think they would both be 1 or both be 2 OR are different Alignments if both real. It just seems kinda random to give town a 1 shot and a 2 shot of the same role instead of just two 1 shots or a 3 shot. Maybe it's my ocd lol

Anyway I'm more concern with Gnome and Mac at the current times

Did you see my post to Hawk? I asked her some questions and brought up some things that don’t make sense to me. Can you make sense of my concerns?

I think they think they wasted a shot because Alison was already healed by Martin so they both healed the same person which would mean one shot was wasted.

But then instead of saying that it kind of looks like they think they wasted a shot because they were roleblocked but I don't think that would affect a day action lol

So it's all a bit confusiong and doesn't really make sense as an entire post

I do agree a shot was wasted though if both targeted Alison

Do you think both healers are town aligned?

as 2 and 1 shot i find it unlikely. if both were 1 shot i could see it but that doesnt seem to be the case here. i am leaning towards believing seanszie ttheory atm

[Guillotine]

I'm kind of flipping back and forth between current day and reading back

My thoughts on the healer thing is that I don't see any reason we can't have multiple healers when we now know that there have been multiple poisons, that obviously doesn't mean anything for the alignment of each one so that's an important thing to remember

The one thing that sticks out is 1-shot and 2-shot claims. I have no real reason for thinking this but I think they would both be 1 or both be 2 OR are different Alignments if both real. It just seems kinda random to give town a 1 shot and a 2 shot of the same role instead of just two 1 shots or a 3 shot. Maybe it's my ocd lol

Anyway I'm more concern with Gnome and Mac at the current times

Did you see my post to Hawk? I asked her some questions and brought up some things that don’t make sense to me. Can you make sense of my concerns?

I think they think they wasted a shot because Alison was already healed by Martin so they both healed the same person which would mean one shot was wasted.

But then instead of saying that it kind of looks like they think they wasted a shot because they were roleblocked but I don't think that would affect a day action lol

So it's all a bit confusiong and doesn't really make sense as an entire post

I do agree a shot was wasted though if both targeted Alison

Do you think both healers are town aligned?

as 2 and 1 shot i find it unlikely. if both were 1 shot i could see it but that doesnt seem to be the case here. i am leaning towards believing seanszie ttheory atm

What is the seanzie theory, remind me please. @orangecrush

[orangecrush]

I'm kind of flipping back and forth between current day and reading back

My thoughts on the healer thing is that I don't see any reason we can't have multiple healers when we now know that there have been multiple poisons, that obviously doesn't mean anything for the alignment of each one so that's an important thing to remember

The one thing that sticks out is 1-shot and 2-shot claims. I have no real reason for thinking this but I think they would both be 1 or both be 2 OR are different Alignments if both real. It just seems kinda random to give town a 1 shot and a 2 shot of the same role instead of just two 1 shots or a 3 shot. Maybe it's my ocd lol

Anyway I'm more concern with Gnome and Mac at the current times

Did you see my post to Hawk? I asked her some questions and brought up some things that don’t make sense to me. Can you make sense of my concerns?

I think they think they wasted a shot because Alison was already healed by Martin so they both healed the same person which would mean one shot was wasted.

But then instead of saying that it kind of looks like they think they wasted a shot because they were roleblocked but I don't think that would affect a day action lol

So it's all a bit confusiong and doesn't really make sense as an entire post

I do agree a shot was wasted though if both targeted Alison

Do you think both healers are town aligned?

as 2 and 1 shot i find it unlikely. if both were 1 shot i could see it but that doesnt seem to be the case here. i am leaning towards believing seanszie ttheory atm

What is the seanzie theory, remind me please. @orangecrush

That both are in fact one shot but Hawk had to claim two shot because they need to have a shot to prove today and of they'd claimed 1 shot they would have had to answer why they did not save Alison with the shot which is harder to do than just claim 2 shot

[Guillotine]

I'm kind of flipping back and forth between current day and reading back

My thoughts on the healer thing is that I don't see any reason we can't have multiple healers when we now know that there have been multiple poisons, that obviously doesn't mean anything for the alignment of each one so that's an important thing to remember

The one thing that sticks out is 1-shot and 2-shot claims. I have no real reason for thinking this but I think they would both be 1 or both be 2 OR are different Alignments if both real. It just seems kinda random to give town a 1 shot and a 2 shot of the same role instead of just two 1 shots or a 3 shot. Maybe it's my ocd lol

Anyway I'm more concern with Gnome and Mac at the current times

Did you see my post to Hawk? I asked her some questions and brought up some things that don’t make sense to me. Can you make sense of my concerns?

I think they think they wasted a shot because Alison was already healed by Martin so they both healed the same person which would mean one shot was wasted.

But then instead of saying that it kind of looks like they think they wasted a shot because they were roleblocked but I don't think that would affect a day action lol

So it's all a bit confusiong and doesn't really make sense as an entire post

I do agree a shot was wasted though if both targeted Alison

Do you think both healers are town aligned?

as 2 and 1 shot i find it unlikely. if both were 1 shot i could see it but that doesnt seem to be the case here. i am leaning towards believing seanszie ttheory atm

What is the seanzie theory, remind me please. @orangecrush

That both are in fact one shot but Hawk had to claim two shot because they need to have a shot to prove today and of they'd claimed 1 shot they would have had to answer why they did not save Alison with the shot which is harder to do than just claim 2 shot

Ok. Next question is what is your read on Alison? Town or Mafia?

[Long Con]

idg why Martin has votes?

I think Martin is the Mafia healer.

[orangecrush]

Hawk should be given the opportunity to save LC st least and then we can deal with them tomorrow if push comes to shove. I don't think it's the right thing to lynch them today and there are other suspects I think that worthy of consideration , and a lot of time too

[Allcrab]

Hi I might be dumb but not totally convinced hawk is a wolf but game probably can't progress without that lynch so bleh.

Kinda think sloonei is a wolf but we'll get there tomorrow.

[Long Con]

Hawk should be given the opportunity to save LC st least and then we can deal with them tomorrow if push comes to shove. I don't think it's the right thing to lynch them today and there are other suspects I think that worthy of consideration , and a lot of time too

The opportunity to save me comes before the yeet is complete. Ideally, Hawk has already saved me.

[Long Con]

Open question for whoever:

The game has begun with two dead mafia in a row with only three town gone as of Day 3. We have one confirmed non-mafia and a whole pile of people that just look town and are secure from being pushed in any meaningful way.

Who seems cranky?

You got a little cranky when I said I don't automatically believe your story.

[Long Con]

@Long Con did you read hawkataine as town before this day phase began, and if so why?

No, I had no read on Hawk before this day phase began.