PSY 2310 - Cognitive Psychology [END]

[bronana]

my instincts are telling me that if im misreading anyone in that pool, it would be bronana

[staypositivefriend]

i might actually kill arete and c4 before i would kill dizzy

i dunno

[outed wolf]

ENJOY F3 ZACK HAHAHAHAHAHA

[outed wolf]

i might actually kill arete and c4 before i would kill dizzy

i dunno

really?

[bronana]

why am i always the "if i'm misclearing someone it's X" person smh

is it because i'm such a swashbuckling rogue

[staypositivefriend]

i might actually kill arete and c4 before i would kill dizzy

i dunno

really?

probably not lol

[staypositivefriend]

i feel like all roads are leading me to arete and i dunno what to do about that

[bronana]

lets kill whoever has the most uninspired d6 by t0an

[staypositivefriend]

please, if I was a wolf I would have either bussed hard yesterday or joined the c4 counter wagon

instead I stayed off wagon and clearly tried to veto the c4 wagon when it got close to dya's, check my posts

I'm sick of killing villagers because they aren't doing or posting enough

c4 feels like a miss and resolves nothing

few hours before EOD and wagons were getting v close at the time

I would have voted dya at eod if it was necessary but there's no way for me to prove that, obviously. as it stood I didn't need to do anything for dya to die, so I mostly focused on other contingencies. I don't really care about getting the personal glory, I just want to win and make sure the bases are covered.

man he was really hedgy on you zack. he clearly wanted you as a mis-elim

like cmon, this was such an obvious pocket attempt, who talks to their wolfbro like this

Weird ass read but I think this sequence shows that Zack said the point off of memory and dove back into ISOS to prove it, and stumbled across the dya post while he was there, and I think he would've already known where that post was as a wolf.

A bit unnecessary by now but it's there.

meh, i maintain the feeling that c4 is villagery after peeking at his ISO again

this read alone shows a higher depth of thought/insight than anything i saw from his wolf game

[staypositivefriend]

my maximum postcount for today is 420.......blaze it........

[bronana]

my maximum postcount for today is 420.......blaze it........

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

[staypositivefriend]

my maximum postcount for today is 420.......blaze it........

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

same

[bronana]

In the land of Mordor, in the fires of Mount Doom, the Dark Lord KZA forged in secret a master Ring, to control all others. And into this Ring he poured his cruelty, his malice and his will to dominate all cognitive psychology courses. One Ring to rule them all.

[bronana]

if nutella and spf are both villagers, KZA didnt make a single read on a wolf

[staypositivefriend]

if nutella and spf are both villagers, KZA didnt make a single read on a wolf

considering that he made 4 reads total (5 if you count the defense of alison), i dont find this super hard to believe lol

[Dyslexicon]

Thumbs up
Not specifically about your play atp so I'm not sure how much there is for you to do in terms of clarifying your PoV
If you think I'm making a listake somewhere else that's another question

You obviously have.

Kinda gotten nowhere new

Your constant switching on dya isn't w/w
dya pocketed Zack
dya TMI'd Visor
Vulgard pocketed Arete
spf generally obvious

I'd be doing more due diligence if I weren't busy with you know what
That's probably not true

Not sure how you weigh these.
I don't get how me pointing out something very specific, tying town read Vulgard to a dying wolf Dya is somehow less clearing than the one post (?) you say is Dya TMI-ing Visor, for example. But it's not a competition between most clear towns (well, it kind of is lol), but it's about finding that one wolf, and I'm not it.

Still largely stumped on where else to go is all
If it really just ends with Arete tomorrow then yell at me in post all you want

That's lethargic.
And I don't care about yelling at you.

I'm not great at campaigning for things, but I did call him a wolf, and I did try to get votes off of Alison by pinging people with my reasons. That's usually the extent I can manage.

Did you think Alison was wolf if she wasn't PT btw?

[Dyslexicon]

For the record I feel like 'Arete didn't interact a lot with Dya, which makes them partners,' which I've seen a couple times, is ... silly? like if you think I'm a wolf then clearly I would be capable of interacting with my partners, seeing as how basically all I did the entire game until he died was interact with Vul.

I haven't meant to imply this myself. Dya didn't interact much with me either. I feel like they were more avoidant towards me, and more aggressive in their interaction with you. But yeah, it's not something I can read into really. And ok to the rest of this post.

[Dyslexicon]

I want the game to end today, but I don't know who to vote today. Town, be town.

I want to talk to c4 about his read/thoughts on me.

I want to talk to Arete about how they felt when Vulgard was mafia.

sorry I missed this before

uh

I was sad about it, and frustrated with myself for not catching him, and sad that this meant that we couldn't just automatically be masons in every V/V game in the future? I don't know what else to say that wouldn't just be ATE

I think I was less impacted by his wolf flip than I normally would have been because he had started lowkey lolcatting before EoD and I had semi resigned myself to the possibility of him flipping scum, so I didn't have the 'wait oh no he was a wolf' realization all at once

did you have any specific questions?

No specific questions. I just don't remember seeing many feels from you about it. But I also have not read everything. Just wanted to see if you had anything to say about it. Searching for something to make me feel more sure about things.

[Dyslexicon]

it's not a joke. c4 has never misread me in a game before. if c4 is a villager then he's misreading me for the first time ever. if c4 is a wolf then he's TMI'ing me as town. in either reality, the odds of me being town are more likely than not. i don't understand why an argument like that makes you feel "wrong" - you're gonna have to be less abstract about it

I didn't realise this was your original argument. I thought you meant "If I was a wolf, I would not be interested to clear c4, cause I need wide PoE"

[Dyslexicon]

i have been worried that i have set the bar too low for nutella to jump over (they especially jump from wagon to wagon and idea to idea and i guess i think i should village read that but i cant lie and say i havent been worrying about that clear)

In the beginning of every of the flipped scum's ISO, it looks like they are TMI-ing Nut town.

[Dyslexicon]

I guess I would probably go for Dizzy over Bronana as my second name just because Dizzy kind of feels like they're trying to discredit townclears e.g. with the c4 thing where they were like 'well there were already two wolves in the list so why *can't* there be a third' which feels like it's not really engaging with the reasons why people thought that that post was clearing

Allow me to correct you. Your clearing of c4 for this reason is whack to me, just like you all suspecting Syn for interactions when all the interactions super obviously pointed towards Vul and Dya TMI-ing them town was whack. I've said it already, that Vul had mentioned he previously acted towards a teammate (Alison) in a specific manner in order for them to succeed. He had already put both Dya and KZA in that post, so I don't think it's at all wild to believe he could put all three there for the wifom. And it's something I myself would definitely do for that reason. However, I've found other more clearing circumstances for c4, which is why I'm not voting there right now.

You saying I didn't engage with the reasons why people think the post is clearing is a lie, in fact. I specifically explained my take on it, and I think other's take on it is bad. I will disagree when I think other's takes have been bad, which they have been on quite a few things imo.

[Dyslexicon]

dyslexicon has generally felt villagery to me and their early interactions with dyachei are just inquisitive and punchy enough for me to feel like it's less likely to be W/W interaction. the reason i can't clear dizzy like i can clear nutella/bronana is because i'm lacking in any real, concrete reasons to towncore him. his posts have been villagery and he's generally had good observations, (and i also doubt he attacks zack's point about KZA as much as he did on d1 in a world where he/KZA are W/W), but i guess i'm just lacking in the special spice that makes me feel confident in him being town. i still think that he's more likely town

I know you're landing on me being more likely town. Still, have you given this post any consideration?

I'll list out what I feel are things that I wouldn't or even can't do as scum:
- I actually thought Gavial was highly likely mafia when I entered the game, but I felt it was a mistake to wagon him when he had like four or five posts. I have just played a game where me+Gavial was the scum team, and he was extremely obvious in how he spewed me as a teammate. So I felt that if he was mafia, it was unironically worse for town to just shut him down immediately. I wouldn't have this approach as mafia. I also think this thought process can be tracked in my post.
- Pointing out a very specific word usage read, connecting Dya and Vulgard is, as Nut points out, strictly outside my wolf range and strictly within my town range. I'm actually pretty good at reading interactions specifically, and I've had many similar finds in other games. (Also, re Syn slot who I thought was obviously not teamed with Vulgard from interaction, and it's even more apparent in Dya's ISO. But that is moot.) In any case, I would never bring up something that nobody else would ever notice about that pairing just to do it. Vulgard was a consensus town read at the time. I also town read Vulgard, mostly directly from that consensus and from Arete. Dya, however, was likely to go down either that day or soon. There would be absolutely no need for me to tie Vulgard to a wolf soon going down if they were on my team. It's not a matter of if I bus or not. I bus if it's necessary. But I would never needlessly put shit like that on my teammates that would just hurt us in the long run when nobody else has noticed the same thing.
- The day the jailkeep happened, I thought I had really solved that it must be Marl or Vulgard as one of the scum. I solved that forgetting that scum would not be free to kill Amy as they pleased, which I didn't think about. That in itself you can call a derp moment, but I'm fine if people want to wave that off as NAI. What is AI imo is that I had a real reaction to thinking this and then realising my mistake. I also had a real reaction to Marl going off at me and immediately realised that Marl was not it. The thing is that I wouldn't have a reaction to this in real time if I was scum and already knew. And then there's the discrepancy between my inner experience and what I express. But I think my reaction can be traced with how I post.
- I have never ever phoned in or not read part of a thread in a scum game. I'm super neurotic as scum and plan everything and need to know everything my teammates are doing etc. If people are ticked off by me being a bit here and there and everywhere, then that is just more signs I'm town.

So these are some of the strongest town signs imo.

[Dyslexicon]

And I know I'm spending time explaining why I'm town, but I do feel that's one of the things I can do the best right now, or at least it's the easiest. I'm of course open to hearing others on why they are town. I'm saying that, but I glossed over SPF on their Dya interaction lol. But I'll go back and read it.

[Dyslexicon]

Spoiler: show

what do you think of dya spf, specifically (not like you agree with arguments others make, whats your interpretation.thoughts on their posts)

i feel like dyachei came into this game with pre-packaged stances, and has spent the entirety of today reiterating them. their reads are reasonable and they come from a perspective that is logical for a villager to have - i just feel like something is missing wrt their reads developing and changing in a fluid way. dyachei's strongest townread is on tangygrowth, a read that was initially just described as tangy being "pure", and read that was later expanded upon to include the reasoning of: "her wallpost contained a lot of detail that wolves wouldn't think to write"

and like, yes, i agree that tangy is towny, but i don't feel like dyachei went on a ~journey~ to figure tangy out. i don't feel like dyachei went on a ~journey~ to figure alison out. their reads just kind of pop into existence, and i can't find any "turning points" in their ISO for when a read might have developed more strongly or more confidently. the surface level stuff is there, and it definitely looks good, but i just don't feel like the internal thought processes that villagers tend to have are reflected in dyachei's reads so far. they feel much more point A to point B to me

i've been struggling w/my read on dyachei because i greatly dislike the idea of pushing on them when theyre a villager, and i mindmelded with them earlier about c4 being villagery, but i've been getting pinged by them for a little while now

like why would my read on alison change because what I thought yesterday actually happened spf

well, if you're a villager, then it's logical that your read on alison would stay the same coming into today. the issue isn't that your read on alison is staying the same - it's just that i don't get the sense that your reads are evolving in Real Time - it's making me wonder if you're a wolf that's sticking to the same couple of reads because it's a lot more difficult to fake genuine solving as a wolf in a playerlist like this. i also feel that some of your points about alison are questionable (like the point about alison knowing that you were calling gavial anti-town - why do you assume that alison was informed by her partners that you called gavial that, instead of assuming that alison was just catching up with the thread in an unusual manner? it seems to me like you're interpreting that action through the lens of alison already being a wolf, instead of evaluating it neutrally)

SPF,

I posted a tiered breakdown of where my head is at. Let's talk about my "hopefully 0 wolf" tier: Outed Wolf, Arete, and Dya. I have spent posts on each of the three today explaining exactly why I think their approach or specific interactions was significantly more likely to come from town than wolf. Do you have any specific issues with those reasons?

I have grouped a poe together which I'm hoping contains at least two wolves: Chloe, Dsyl, Nutella, Marl, and Alison. I have spent many posts going back and forth on both Marl and Alison this game. Once I decided Dya was a villager I moved Alison down because I trust Dya to be right on these types of reads. I talked about Marl quite a bit - including my experience with them and how this differs - which was understood by Marl and explained as just being in a different part of their cycle. I also pointed out specifically the posts of Nutella that gave me large amounts of concern - which Nutella also said was understandable from my point of view and has no problems with it. Why do you have an issue with my take on the game state if the people I am suspicious of understand that suspicion from my pov?

As for my KZA comment, I didn't ask to be cleared off of it. I just rolled in and said "hey based on bringing up KZA in response to another wagon we could go to do I have the ability to just chill for most of the day without yall getting paranoid on me". The answer it seems, is no unfortunately. That's the game though, it's fine.

I am well aware my reads list is different from everyone elses. I feel pretty good about it though? I might not have it 100% locked down but I think It's a good starting point.

honestly? i do have some mild concern/confusion about your reasoning for townreading dya. you state on reason number one of this post: https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 08#p801608 that dyachei would never make this post: https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 91#p799591, but i don't really understand why. there is nothing about that post that moves me in either direction and i'm curious why you think that specific post is out of dyachei's wolfrange

i dont really agree that the second point is clearing for dyachei either - it feels like the argument can be summed up as: "dyachei's suspicion on alison grew incrementally as d1 went on, and it reflects the way that dyachei pushes on people as a villager", and that's true, i guess, but why is it impossible for dyachei to have a progression like that as a wolf? you can argue that dyachei's progression on alison was fluid/incremental enough to be villager indicative, but i struggle to understand how you come out with the result of: "i am confident that dyachei is town" based on that

if you've explained why you feel these posts are villager indicative beyond the post i just linked, then mb, but that seems to be your main reasoning for townreading dyachei, yeah?

i'm not saying that dyachei can't be a villager - your conviction actually makes me more doubtful of my own read on them and has been a factor in my decision to cast a wide net w/my solving today in the case that i've been misreading them, but i just don't really understand the train of thought in your reasoning for tr'ing them

i do actually kinda townread this response from you but i dont know if i know why. there's a sharpness to the tone here that just feels villagery i guess

@sunbae -

you are definitely right that i feel good about you in the moment whenever we interact and then circle back around to feeling paranoid about you again a couple of hours later - i think it's because most of the reasons that i have to townread you are based on a feeling, you know? like, it's hard for me to use the logic of: "sunbae feels really genuine and really passionate" as a foundation for any of my reads, especially when you presumably have a reputation for being an amazing wolf, but i DO feel that you're villagery in the moment. i feel it right now

wrt to dya's post toward gavial, i disagree in the sense that as you pointed out, dyachei was clearly irritated at that stage of the game because of them being told how to play. i can only speak for myself, but if i'm in a bad/grumpy mood and i'm feeling really irritated, then there's a chance that i'm gonna lash out at whoever says something that rubs me the wrong way regardless of my own alignment. anger and irritation can come out in indiscriminate ways regardless of alignment, and i just disagree with you on a fundamental level that it's possible to get alignment indicative information out of irritation like that

i'm not there with you on dyachei's progression on alison being town indicative for them, but i'll make a note to take another look at it to see if i can see what you're seeing. like i said, i'm open to considering worlds where dyachei is a villager, i suppose i just haven't seen anything that has pushed me to that place

the most villagery thing about nutella, meta aside, is the way that she zeroed in on kza from the very beginning of the game, and the way that kza tried to play around her. nutella had lots of experience w/kza and immediately noticed that something was "off", and kza effectively ignored her concerns while just lazily brushing off nutella as a villager. nutella continued to dig in her heels throughout the day with her wolfread on kza, and i think the way that she consistently brought attention to it and brought it up before p much anyone else did deserves some level of towncred. i can see your concern about her posts at the EOD but i feel about equally as confident that nutella is a villager that you do that dyachei is a villager

there's more that i want to say but my brain is so tired and i need to call it a night

I call Alison a villager, then she re-enters the thread and does this.

yeah alison isn't a villager

like this doesn't ever come from a wolf pushing town does it



lol me



i probably owe you numerous apologies dya

oh right also I forgot to say this earlier but this is like

the easiest thing ever to fake

like I don't even have a strong wolfgame but I am capable of confidently stating a villager is a wolf as scum

if this is out of Dya's wolfrange then sure, I'll listen, but I would find it surprising on priors if it were

yeah uh....i was really baffled by that post from nutella too. the post that dyachei made there is 100% within the wolfrange of anyone who has played more than one game of mafia, even completely independent of my read on dyachei. if alison is a wolf then i get it more, i guess

that makes two days in a row where I ended the day with dyachei as one of my strongest suspects, only to not feel confident to push the momentum in the direction of their chop

im done with that. i want dya gone today and if they're a villager then I take responsibility for it

i take no issue w/dya being inactive and i trust that they are genuinely busy regardless of their alignment. i feel that their opening posts today are wolfy because they lack the perspective of a villager that just incorrectly tunneled on another villager for 2 days straight - it felt to me like they were more interested in figuring out who to set their sights on next instead of re-evaluating the game as a whole and figuring out where to go from there. there is a lack of general consideration and a lack of holistic thinking in dyachei's posts that make me feel like they're a wolf above all else. of course, i am open to changing my mind if they start towntelling, but as things stand, i think that they're just a wolf

i have some other stuff to say, but it can wait. i probably won't be posting for the rest of the night but feel free to @ me if needed

cool

i wanna chop dyachei and go from there

^^this is not how i talk about my partner in any world

requoting this since i have still not seen a single person today use my interactions with dya as a reason to read me in either direction when they are the most blatantly alignment indicative posts of my game (and which sunbae rightfully acknowledged i should be townread for)

I'm sorry, but I genuinely don't understand how this is supposed to be clearing. Which doesn't make you a wolf, but I really don't get what is clearing about it. I think I could talk about a partner in this way, I don't see why you couldn't. Can you speak to it?

[Dyslexicon]

look im sorry but i have to tinfoil both you and zack so I die

Medium key working for people to clear me so I can die if game doesn't end soon, but I'm worried that won't happen, so please can we just get this.

[Dyslexicon]

honestly if i hadnt heard of how much of a busser you were, (from yourself no less :P) i think i would be less paranoid lmao

i remember liking your thoughts on dya at the time fwiw spf (i did villa read you then after all)

(wish retrospective vote counts were a thing)

it just feels so ...obvious FMPOV that i wouldnt bus dyachei in the way that i did. it's not like i just said "dyachei is wolfy" and left it at that - i held sunbae to the flames and thoroughly roasted his reasoning when he tried to assert himself and clear dyachei. i constantly interrogated dyachei and tried to get to the bottom of their mindset and their logic when it would have been far easier for me as a wolf to just say: "haha dyachei is wolfy, let's kill them!", and when i would have gotten FAR more towncred by doing that and putting in less effort to figure out dyachei overall. it should be obvious that i was genuinely considering dyachei's alignment throughout the entire game, which is a mindset that i am unable to replicate even when i am hardbussing my partners as a wolf

if i'm as good at bussing as i've made it sound, then i would also bus dyachei in a way that would give me an ample amount of towncred. i have just generally been frustrated with the feeling that there is a general lack of thought/consideration about how my alignment relates to dyachei's alignment, but i understand that i'm speaking from the POV of town entitlement lol

Going "haha Dya wolf" is not good bussing though.
And I'm not assuming that you're a bad player, because I know you're a good player.
What you did would be good bussing.
Doesn't mean it is.
The feeling of your defence reads town to me, the way you approach it. The content of your defence, I have a harder time seeing. But that's fine.

[Dyslexicon]

I mean, actually, that kind of bothers me. SPF, I'm genuinely a bit ticked off about you thinking that you would bus in a manner of "Haha Dya wolf brrrrr" and expect to get town cred from that. We are not playing level 0 mafia here. TMI bussing is not exactly hard to spot. I don't remember how you bussed in Grasslands, but I'm pretty sure it didn't have that flavor at all.

[Dyslexicon]

look i want to trust past me and just say that you're a villager.

but the paranoid side of me is v scared of f3

i guess we will see with arete and c4.

Can we not

[Dyslexicon]

i mean i pushed chloe/syn since d2 or whatever all game and then everyone agreed it was syn yesterday and he was green? lol

Everyone did not agree.

[Dyslexicon]

sk hunting is hard man

It's not sk hunting with three flipped wolves and a whole game behind us though. Snap snap slap slap. Y U so bleh right now

[Dyslexicon]

and are both in the 18-65 age demographic

Omg towny mindmeld

[Dyslexicon]

tfw i cant absolve myself of responsibility

When I'm town at PerC, I get N1-ed like 50 % of the time.
When I'm town on Syndicate, I end game like ALL THE TIME.
Thanks, I hate it.

[Dyslexicon]

look i was super confident dya/amy were wolves, it seemed natural to me, i was wrong on amy, and got a lot of pushback from people on dya

having then shit the bed on d4, and also been wrong on amy, why wouldnt you expect my confidence level to be low?

But can you snap out of it, cause it's a bit annoying and weh if you're town, which you probably are. Be the hero we need you to be thanks dad

[outed wolf]

snap out of what exactly? im explaining myself to spf who is specifically talking about my confidence levels?

[Dyslexicon]

literally the only read hes pushed since dya is dizzy i think (c4)

He's not even pushing that read, or like, I don't understand it. He was super passionate (YES I AM USING THAT WORD CAUSE THAT IS HOW I READ IT) about me absolutely needing to be in the general PoE on D4 or whenever. I don't think I've ever heard a reason why, other than "I don't find a reason to clear you", even though I've been throwing those reasons at him like candy on halloween, which he hasn't responded to, and also like dude you've never played with me, why are you satisfied with this solve. It bothers me, and I don't think it's omgus. He's not really solving me, he isn't scum reading me, it seems like, but he is voting me.

I'm super interested in squaring this with him, and I promise not to yell, cause I'm not over worked irl and overwhelmed by this game as much.

So hi c4, what's up. Why am I the big bad to you for real for real?

[Dyslexicon]

snap out of what exactly? im explaining myself to spf who is specifically talking about my confidence levels?

You've been meh-ing. I want you and everyone to be confident so I can sheep or have an instinctive reaction to it being wrong.

[Dyslexicon]

let's fast forward to the part where dizzy comes in and complains about me not having him higher in my POE and me townreading him for it

Yes, it's a bit weird, and I'm going to be a total hypocrite about it too, except not really, cause I'm right, IMO lol.

Cause you ask for the one big reason to town read me. How about me pointing out fucking specific word usage + a mindset slip from Vulgard, that nobody else picked up on. I noticed these two things when reading whatever part of the thread I got to read back then, and I mentioned it in an insecure way, ok. But for real, there's literally no positive sides to me tying a consensus town read to a consensus scum read when there's absolutely no reason to do that and nobody else has that thought. It's also strictly outside my scum meta, as I'm 100 % carry the team where I can and bus my team if I must kind of a player, because that is the true way imo. So I actually think that counts as a pretty big thing. I realise the observation was not given as me screaming it out, but it was a genuine observation that struck me, which I did call out. And I'm super happy and proud of Sunbae for listening and taking it into consideration, cause that is true good town play on his part.

Ironically, not having one big reason to town read you is the reason I'm unsure of you. I know you pointed to your interaction with Dya, but I genuinely don't understand what is clearing about it. I lean towards you believing it is, but I have questions why. I also am frowning upon you suggestion your bus would look like "haha the wheels on the bus go brrrr" cause you're just not that bad of a player. Devils advocate here is that nothing you've done points towards scum necessarily. And you not having one big thing or one more bizarre moment, like Arete and Visor have for example, could also be because of your play style, as you tend to be more flowy and less hard edged in your approach anyway.

So yeah.
You should town read me, but I don't have to town read you basically. =p
But like, I'm working on it. And you're probably town tbh tbh.

[Dyslexicon]

i might actually kill arete and c4 before i would kill dizzy

i dunno

really?

probably not lol

Scum the lot of you. Can you just town read me. It would get simpler for you if you're town, and me too. Win win. Lol I'm such a diva LOVE ME.

And also, my takes/perspectives are not "interesting" or "weird" or "cute". Cause I've been the only one to tie Vulgard and Dya together, and I also read the Syn slot correctly (which I'm honestly so confused as to how people didn't). So maybe I'm just not that bad at mafia (trying to boost myself here as well.) The Dizzy prophecy is a real thing! Ok, there's a lot of messiness that comes with my play, and doubt and unsureness, but there is always the gems. I do it to myself, but I'm often not taken very seriously in games, I feel.

[Dyslexicon]

I read this day yay. I think I'm sticking with Aroot.
Vulgard/Aroot deciding to hard town read each other throughout to a win. Trying to build it up and make it "natural". It's bizarre tbh, but it's hard to imagine something else.

[outed wolf]

if not arete who are your next two in line?

[Dyslexicon]

if not arete who are your next two in line?

I don't really want a line. Nut and Zack most town (NutZack hahahahahahah). I don't want to line up though, cause it's going to be just town if Aroot is mafia and at least one town if they aren't. And it's also something I'll have to just deal with then, if Aroot is town. Or I can deal with it now, if Aroot is town and able to show it.

Anyway, it doesn't really make sense to me to make a line.

[outed wolf]

[VOTE: arete] aubergine

in case im not around for eod gl

[nutella]

@staypositivefriend im sorry this is really dumb but also dizzy's micro wording reads turned out to be right so is there some way you can reassure me that these two things are not perspective slips

if c4 is a villager then he's misreading me for the first time ever.

oh? :P

i wouldnt bus dyachei in the way that i did.

[staypositivefriend]

I mean, actually, that kind of bothers me. SPF, I'm genuinely a bit ticked off about you thinking that you would bus in a manner of "Haha Dya wolf brrrrr" and expect to get town cred from that. We are not playing level 0 mafia here. TMI bussing is not exactly hard to spot. I don't remember how you bussed in Grasslands, but I'm pretty sure it didn't have that flavor at all.

you seem to be misunderstanding the point. i'm using the "haha Dya wolf brrrrr" argument as hyperbole to bring attention to the fact that my busses as a wolf are typically orchestrated to give me as much towncred as possible. when i bus my partners, i go to great lengths to:

A. make the bus extremely noticeable

B. be extremely loud about the bus

C. hammer home the narrative that me/the person im bussing cant be the same alignment

to give an example of this, i faked an entire angry emotional argument with long con in grasslands (i encouraged him to be mean as possible) just so that the two of wouldn't look teamed with each other. to give another example, i bussed c4 in CoV by voting for him, casing him, and making a big scene about how no one was sheeping my vote about him and how that definitely meant that he was a wolf. the overall trajectory was loud and performative

by contrast, my posts about dyachei in this game are understated by comparison (and not outside of the range of any competent wolf), and that's kinda the point. my trajectory toward dyachei was constant suspicion, constant interrogation, and constant pushing, but it was conducted in a way that was so "quiet" that two players in this game outright didn't remember me pushing dya much at all. there's no flashiness or drama to my push on dyachei, and that alone means that i'm a villager. THAT's the point

[staypositivefriend]

let's fast forward to the part where dizzy comes in and complains about me not having him higher in my POE and me townreading him for it

Yes, it's a bit weird, and I'm going to be a total hypocrite about it too, except not really, cause I'm right, IMO lol.

Cause you ask for the one big reason to town read me. How about me pointing out fucking specific word usage + a mindset slip from Vulgard, that nobody else picked up on. I noticed these two things when reading whatever part of the thread I got to read back then, and I mentioned it in an insecure way, ok. But for real, there's literally no positive sides to me tying a consensus town read to a consensus scum read when there's absolutely no reason to do that and nobody else has that thought. It's also strictly outside my scum meta, as I'm 100 % carry the team where I can and bus my team if I must kind of a player, because that is the true way imo. So I actually think that counts as a pretty big thing. I realise the observation was not given as me screaming it out, but it was a genuine observation that struck me, which I did call out. And I'm super happy and proud of Sunbae for listening and taking it into consideration, cause that is true good town play on his part.

Ironically, not having one big reason to town read you is the reason I'm unsure of you. I know you pointed to your interaction with Dya, but I genuinely don't understand what is clearing about it. I lean towards you believing it is, but I have questions why. I also am frowning upon you suggestion your bus would look like "haha the wheels on the bus go brrrr" cause you're just not that bad of a player. Devils advocate here is that nothing you've done points towards scum necessarily. And you not having one big thing or one more bizarre moment, like Arete and Visor have for example, could also be because of your play style, as you tend to be more flowy and less hard edged in your approach anyway.

So yeah.
You should town read me, but I don't have to town read you basically. =p
But like, I'm working on it. And you're probably town tbh tbh.

acknowledged. your town entitlement makes me wanna villa read you lol

[staypositivefriend]

@staypositivefriend im sorry this is really dumb but also dizzy's micro wording reads turned out to be right so is there some way you can reassure me that these two things are not perspective slips

if c4 is a villager then he's misreading me for the first time ever.

oh? :P

i wouldnt bus dyachei in the way that i did.

they aren't perspective slips, but tbh i don't really know how to reassure you that they aren't other than pointing out that this is just how i talk regardless of my alignment :P i could probably find examples of me using the same language in other games if i looked hard enough

[staypositivefriend]

ive spent all week preparing for an important work meeting/presentation

today was supposed to be the Big Day and i was all ready to present the stuff that i've been working on

and it just got rescheduled to next week

i feel like there's a metaphor there somewhere

[Dyslexicon]

I mean, actually, that kind of bothers me. SPF, I'm genuinely a bit ticked off about you thinking that you would bus in a manner of "Haha Dya wolf brrrrr" and expect to get town cred from that. We are not playing level 0 mafia here. TMI bussing is not exactly hard to spot. I don't remember how you bussed in Grasslands, but I'm pretty sure it didn't have that flavor at all.

you seem to be misunderstanding the point. i'm using the "haha Dya wolf brrrrr" argument as hyperbole to bring attention to the fact that my busses as a wolf are typically orchestrated to give me as much towncred as possible. when i bus my partners, i go to great lengths to:

A. make the bus extremely noticeable

B. be extremely loud about the bus

C. hammer home the narrative that me/the person im bussing cant be the same alignment

to give an example of this, i faked an entire angry emotional argument with long con in grasslands (i encouraged him to be mean as possible) just so that the two of wouldn't look teamed with each other. to give another example, i bussed c4 in CoV by voting for him, casing him, and making a big scene about how no one was sheeping my vote about him and how that definitely meant that he was a wolf. the overall trajectory was loud and performative

by contrast, my posts about dyachei in this game are understated by comparison (and not outside of the range of any competent wolf), and that's kinda the point. my trajectory toward dyachei was constant suspicion, constant interrogation, and constant pushing, but it was conducted in a way that was so "quiet" that two players in this game outright didn't remember me pushing dya much at all. there's no flashiness or drama to my push on dyachei, and that alone means that i'm a villager. THAT's the point

Alright. I mean, that (this) would be a more successful bus imo. =p
But point taken. You didn't bus Dya.

[bronana]

[VOTE: arete] aubergine

[bronana]

I'm pretty sure Vul is already out of his wolfrange from his linguistic analysis of SPF but there are a couple points in his posts that are very yikes

right now I would call him like 98 percent town but I should have a more confident read later and this isn't at sheepable territory yet

(for the unfamiliar, Vul and I have highly accurate reads on each other, essentially 100 percent accurate discounting third parties)

there are a couple points in his posts that are very yikes
right now I would call him like 98 percent town