basic mafia [END]

[Luckbox Inc]

Also in isolation posting that is rand!wolf but I'm providing content around it. That one cherry-picked post doesn't make my other work irrelevant.

I didn't just vote you over that one post. You're different than you've been in other games I've seen.

Oh no. He's hit me with the "You're different" read!

Sorry buddies, I got caught.

Yeah, you're a wolf.

nah

[MacDougall]

seanzie has been openwolfing i think

Yes, I don't really want to commit but Luck's been trending up and Sean's not looking great.

Do you think Nanook's response to my vote there-- basically building the reason I want to kill him into something it's not and then saying it's not actually a thing at all anyway is alignment indicative? I could understand "no i'm just being lazy and doing my thing that's a bad push" but I felt like the lengths to which he went to thinly strawman and then demolish my push (rather than engaging with the substance of my actual read i.e. that he's blatantly wolfsiding regardless of alignment and that he can do better as town, even if I don't expect him to, and it seems like he's using excuse to tether vote to a blatantly non-consensus short-temper villager, plus his reads have seemed generally tmi-y) don't give me a lot of hope in that regard.

It's nanook indicative. Nanook gonna Nanook.

[Seanzie]

shhh im openwolfing

I believe you.

[VOTE: axe] aubergine

Why Axe?

Why Axe?

@MacDougall OkAy, you didn't know.

[EnderWiggin]

Really enjoying the OMGUS coming from Mac and Ender. Makes me think I'm onto something.

How about we make this a proper OMGUS aye?

[VOTE: Seanzie] aubergine

[MacDougall]

shhh im openwolfing

I believe you.

[VOTE: axe] aubergine

Why Axe?

Why Axe?

@MacDougall OkAy, you didn't know.

[VOTE: Seanzie] aubergine

You usually tilt me. If you scumread me here it'd have been translated by more than just concurring to me joking about openwolfing. You'd be tunneling me like you always do.

[MacDougall]

Also in isolation posting that is rand!wolf but I'm providing content around it. That one cherry-picked post doesn't make my other work irrelevant.

I didn't just vote you over that one post. You're different than you've been in other games I've seen.

Oh no. He's hit me with the "You're different" read!

Sorry buddies, I got caught.

Yeah, you're a wolf.

nah

do you have a read on seanzie?

[Seanzie]

shhh im openwolfing

I believe you.

[VOTE: axe] aubergine

Why Axe?

Why Axe?

@MacDougall OkAy, you didn't know.

[VOTE: Seanzie] aubergine

You usually tilt me. If you scumread me here it'd have been translated by more than just concurring to me joking about openwolfing. You'd be tunneling me like you always do.

I grilled you for hours last night. You're a wolf.

[MacDougall]

shhh im openwolfing

I believe you.

[VOTE: axe] aubergine

Why Axe?

Why Axe?

@MacDougall OkAy, you didn't know.

[VOTE: Seanzie] aubergine

You usually tilt me. If you scumread me here it'd have been translated by more than just concurring to me joking about openwolfing. You'd be tunneling me like you always do.

I grilled you for hours last night. You're a wolf.

I know you think you have a good read on me but if you are town, tunneling me is not going to end well for town this time. I am town and will continue to be town and you are entirely off meta in this game. I suggest you change up your approach to something a bit more than just directly calling people wolves and something more persuasive.

[Seanzie]

shhh im openwolfing

I believe you.

[VOTE: axe] aubergine

Why Axe?

Why Axe?

@MacDougall OkAy, you didn't know.

[VOTE: Seanzie] aubergine

You usually tilt me. If you scumread me here it'd have been translated by more than just concurring to me joking about openwolfing. You'd be tunneling me like you always do.

I grilled you for hours last night. You're a wolf.

I know you think you have a good read on me but if you are town, tunneling me is not going to end well for town this time. I am town and will continue to be town and you are entirely off meta in this game. I suggest you change up your approach to something a bit more than just directly calling people wolves and something more persuasive.

Nah, I'd rather just keep calling you and Ender and Alison wolves.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

seanzie has been openwolfing i think

Yes, I don't really want to commit but Luck's been trending up and Sean's not looking great.

Do you think Nanook's response to my vote there-- basically building the reason I want to kill him into something it's not and then saying it's not actually a thing at all anyway is alignment indicative? I could understand "no i'm just being lazy and doing my thing that's a bad push" but I felt like the lengths to which he went to thinly strawman and then demolish my push (rather than engaging with the substance of my actual read i.e. that he's blatantly wolfsiding regardless of alignment and that he can do better as town, even if I don't expect him to, and it seems like he's using excuse to tether vote to a blatantly non-consensus short-temper villager, plus his reads have seemed generally tmi-y) don't give me a lot of hope in that regard.

If you wanted me to address something specific you should've framed it as a question, i don't generally treat scumreads as questions to address lol

[MacDougall]

shhh im openwolfing

I believe you.

Why Axe?

Why Axe?

@MacDougall OkAy, you didn't know.

[VOTE: Seanzie] aubergine

You usually tilt me. If you scumread me here it'd have been translated by more than just concurring to me joking about openwolfing. You'd be tunneling me like you always do.

I grilled you for hours last night. You're a wolf.

I know you think you have a good read on me but if you are town, tunneling me is not going to end well for town this time. I am town and will continue to be town and you are entirely off meta in this game. I suggest you change up your approach to something a bit more than just directly calling people wolves and something more persuasive.

Nah, I'd rather just keep calling you and Ender and Alison wolves.

Okay let me just check off "doesn't care about the town winning the game" on my bingo card.

[EnderWiggin]

shhh im openwolfing

I believe you.

Why Axe?

Why Axe?

@MacDougall OkAy, you didn't know.

[VOTE: Seanzie] aubergine

You usually tilt me. If you scumread me here it'd have been translated by more than just concurring to me joking about openwolfing. You'd be tunneling me like you always do.

I grilled you for hours last night. You're a wolf.

I know you think you have a good read on me but if you are town, tunneling me is not going to end well for town this time. I am town and will continue to be town and you are entirely off meta in this game. I suggest you change up your approach to something a bit more than just directly calling people wolves and something more persuasive.

Nah, I'd rather just keep calling you and Ender and Alison wolves.

NGL I kinda hope I get that team one day.

[Seanzie]

I believe you.


Why Axe?

@MacDougall OkAy, you didn't know.

[VOTE: Seanzie] aubergine

You usually tilt me. If you scumread me here it'd have been translated by more than just concurring to me joking about openwolfing. You'd be tunneling me like you always do.

I grilled you for hours last night. You're a wolf.

I know you think you have a good read on me but if you are town, tunneling me is not going to end well for town this time. I am town and will continue to be town and you are entirely off meta in this game. I suggest you change up your approach to something a bit more than just directly calling people wolves and something more persuasive.

Nah, I'd rather just keep calling you and Ender and Alison wolves.

Okay let me just check off "doesn't care about the town winning the game" on my bingo card.

Let me check off "Mac's a wolf" on mine.

[Seanzie]

Guess what?

[Luckbox Inc]

do you have a read on seanzie?

Villager who seems villagery.

[Alison]

I don't even mind killing a player other than Alison, but like, more people are defending Alison than any other player in the game.

D1 Alison stated how 3 additional votes going her way was the scum play to save scum!DOO.

At what point does town!Alison realize that she's being played by the mafia team? I mean, it just seems so unreasonable to me that so many people town read a player that they consider to be "good" when she hasn't done anything towny... Like sorry, the two items are incompatible.

Alternatively, she's just mafia... People defending her can just claim now if the game is lost and I'll take her as town for the rest of the game and return to my theory that the game is either won or lost when the roles are handed out.

It's only my second game with Alison so take this for what it's worth.

But the sort of "level 0" sort of thinking that Alison is being accused of here definitely seems like it's within her village range. I think she's good-- both by reputation and from what I've seen-- but her approach seems to be occam's razor/ more simple explanation is the correct one-- and that she doesn't necessarily do a lot of deep thinking about people and tends to stick to surface level stuff. Idk if that makes sense or not, probably not. It's probably not even completely correct.

You're not wrong and I think it's the optimal way to play. I've long advocated for Occam's Razor thinking in mafia and I'm right more often than not. Even if it doesn't pan out, it gets exposed pretty quickly and you can often zoom in on the real scum once the level 0 solve is proven to be rotten. eg. I've mentioned that I think a Dizzy town world would make Seanzie/Mac scum - throw Ender into the pool as well, I had him as my most likely deepwolf if the solve is bad. So in a level 0 world where Dizzy is town, you exe him, you exe me after, and then you have a small POE to solve the game in with one misexe left still. If Dizzy is indeed scum then things go even better.

[Alison]

Hmm, I get that, but let's say your meta read is accurate. Doesn't occam's razor say to kill on wagon rather than to take Esooa's death to mean that mafia is off-wagon? Esooa, a townie who claimed to not have read the thread and gave reads anyway based on page 1-5 presumably.

Esooa said she intended to turbo everyone on the Alison wagon. She dies in the night. Occam's Razor explanation: mafia are on the Alison wagon. This is doubly true for someone who knows for a fact that Alison/DOO is T/T and so mafia doesn't care which of us they're voting but wants to not be on the person that flipped green.

[Alison]

Assuming Alison is town, which I'm willing to hear. I would probably kill Mac or EnderWiggin today.

This is probably the solve if Dizzy is town which it seems you are operating under the presumption of. But I have heard no strong arguments for Dizzy being town. You have repeatedly referenced "vote positioning", and I'm not sure what you mean by this.

[Alison]

@Seanzie What compelled you to move onto Ender over an IIOA post when you've been calling me outed scum the entire day?

[Alison]

Lu Ren is an inno child.

Luckbox's immediate shift onto EnderWiggin looks like someone who's been genuinely dissatisfied with the wagons and thinks the true answer lies elsewhere and doesn't want town to get sucked into another T/T dichotomy.

I said earlier that Dizzy town might implicate Seanzie but I don't think this is the case now. Seanzie has no reason to break the tension between me and Dizzy and move onto a third target if he is scum and Dizzy is town. Therefore either he is town and just genuinely suspects Ender or he is partners with Dizzy and wants to move for a third option because he doesn't think Dizzy can win the 1v1.

[Alison]

I am more comfortably townreading Axe now. His recent exploration of other worlds struck me as authentic and he had no real incentive to do that if he was scum.

atm i'm looking at something like 3 of [tsp/nanook/dizzy/sean/luck/bo]

I don't think it's Luck. I think Seanzie is still town despite his push benefitting Dizzy's survival; at the very least, I think Seanzie is only scum if Dizzy is also scum, and Dizzy certainly has much higher scum equity, so I'd favor resolving Dizzy first and circling back around to Sean if/when Dizzy flips scum.

No objections to TSP/Nanook/Dizzy/Bo in that POE. I would add splints to it; I don't know why she's being cleared and her attitude can easily come from TMI. I don't have active suspicions of her, and I think she's townsiding if she's scum, I just don't understand why it makes her clear. What's interesting is that splints scum probably makes Mac scum for pushing hard to clear her and that exact world (splints/Mac) scum would spew a bunch of people town (Seanzie, Dizzy, etc). That's a pretty unlikely solve though, but it's *possible* I guess.

[Alison]

I still think Dizzy is the best exe here. Highest scum equity, 3/4 in my POE (TSP/Nook/Bo) has partner equity with him, and if he flips town you just flip me after to confirm it's T/T and then Mac/Ender are basically outed.

[EnderWiggin]

Lu Ren is an inno child.

Luckbox's immediate shift onto EnderWiggin looks like someone who's been genuinely dissatisfied with the wagons and thinks the true answer lies elsewhere and doesn't want town to get sucked into another T/T dichotomy.

I said earlier that Dizzy town might implicate Seanzie but I don't think this is the case now. Seanzie has no reason to break the tension between me and Dizzy and move onto a third target if he is scum and Dizzy is town. Therefore either he is town and just genuinely suspects Ender or he is partners with Dizzy and wants to move for a third option because he doesn't think Dizzy can win the 1v1.

Or maybe he's scum and wants to try getting credit for trying to do something offwagon on a t/t cross?

I don't know why you're completely ignoring that theory.

I agree on Luckbox/Lu Ren.

[Seanzie]

@Seanzie What compelled you to move onto Ender over an IIOA post when you've been calling me outed scum the entire day?

Idk what IIOA means, but I moved because I felt like it. I still think you're a good chop though and may be back on you before EoD.

[EnderWiggin]

Hmm, I get that, but let's say your meta read is accurate. Doesn't occam's razor say to kill on wagon rather than to take Esooa's death to mean that mafia is off-wagon? Esooa, a townie who claimed to not have read the thread and gave reads anyway based on page 1-5 presumably.

Esooa said she intended to turbo everyone on the Alison wagon. She dies in the night. Occam's Razor explanation: mafia are on the Alison wagon. This is doubly true for someone who knows for a fact that Alison/DOO is T/T and so mafia doesn't care which of us they're voting but wants to not be on the person that flipped green.

Reminder NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, Dyslexicon, NotAnAxehole, DaughterOfOmega <- Alison D1 votes.

[EnderWiggin]

@Seanzie What compelled you to move onto Ender over an IIOA post when you've been calling me outed scum the entire day?

Idk what IIOA means, but I moved because I felt like it. I still think you're a good chop though and may be back on you before EoD.

Information Instead Of Analysis

[EnderWiggin]

In Seanzie's world Me/Mac/Alison are all wolves.

Unless he somehow thinks we all powerwolf it up that makes... no sense?

[EnderWiggin]

Like I feel like as town he considers worlds.

[EnderWiggin]

I still think Dizzy is the best exe here. Highest scum equity, 3/4 in my POE (TSP/Nook/Bo) has partner equity with him, and if he flips town you just flip me after to confirm it's T/T and then Mac/Ender are basically outed.

I hate part of this analysis.

It's basically "Chop Dizzy and then lynch the three biggest town pushers".

If Dizzy flips green, which I'm not convinced they won't, it flips one of my upper townreads, myself, and maybe one deep wolf. I'm not sold on Mac being towny tbh, he buddied me hard as w last time and so I'm paranoid there.

But like, either way that's 3/1 probably and removing two people I'd like to keep around for town (Myself/Alison)

[EnderWiggin]

Also Seanzie's tunnelling me over playing "Different" where the only real difference is the random disappearance due to irl.

[Seanzie]

In Seanzie's world Me/Mac/Alison are all wolves.

Unless he somehow thinks we all powerwolf it up that makes... no sense?

Why doesn't it make sense?

You have less than half the posts you did D1 of AtLA, Mac has been meh thus far, and Alison posts a lot in short bursts, but otherwise has been MIA. I wouldn't describe any of your play as "power".

[Seanzie]

Also Seanzie's tunnelling me over playing "Different" where the only real difference is the random disappearance due to irl.

Nah, your vibe is completely different this game. It is hot and I'm feeling especially lazy today, otherwise I'd just case you. I'll probably do it tomorrow before EoD though... maybe.

[EnderWiggin]

In Seanzie's world Me/Mac/Alison are all wolves.

Unless he somehow thinks we all powerwolf it up that makes... no sense?

Why doesn't it make sense?

You have less than half the posts you did D1 of AtLA, Mac has been meh thus far, and Alison posts a lot in short bursts, but otherwise has been MIA. I wouldn't describe any of your play as "power".

Powerwolf = Townreading your buddies hard and defending them.

Also, I had a much lower postcount in Ohio too? Albeit light game anyway, but I didn't even cap. If you're reading me purely off post-count you gotta realise that's more tied to my energy and availability than my alignment.

[EnderWiggin]

Also Seanzie's tunnelling me over playing "Different" where the only real difference is the random disappearance due to irl.

Nah, your vibe is completely different this game. It is hot and I'm feeling especially lazy today, otherwise I'd just case you. I'll probably do it tomorrow before EoD though... maybe.

I'd be lying if I said I was as energetic and excited D1 as I was in AtLA.

But this is some next level of "tone reading"

[EnderWiggin]

I'm doing a re-check of Alison to make sure I at least have done a case over her.

Then I'm going to check over Seanzie because while it might be hot there, it's fucking freezing over here and I need something to do while the eventual chill death of the universe turns me into an iceblock.

[EnderWiggin]

Also sidenote on votecounts:
I'm multitabling rn. Said as much when I was being petitioned to sign up lmao.

[EnderWiggin]

votecounts = postcounts. My brain derped there.

[Seanzie]

In Seanzie's world Me/Mac/Alison are all wolves.

Unless he somehow thinks we all powerwolf it up that makes... no sense?

Why doesn't it make sense?

You have less than half the posts you did D1 of AtLA, Mac has been meh thus far, and Alison posts a lot in short bursts, but otherwise has been MIA. I wouldn't describe any of your play as "power".

Powerwolf = Townreading your buddies hard and defending them.

Also, I had a much lower postcount in Ohio too? Albeit light game anyway, but I didn't even cap. If you're reading me purely off post-count you gotta realise that's more tied to my energy and availability than my alignment.

Uhh... Ohio was a light game with 60 posts per day, which completely changes how people post.

I'm not reading you based on postcount, but you said you'd have to be powerwolf and I associate strong threadcontrol with powerwolfing, and none of you are doing that. You're all lackluster compared to your normal town games thus far IMO.

Also, I have three scumreads, you're trying to make out that they have to fit perfectly together for that to make sense. Worldbuilding is important, but moreso after a scum flip. Pre-scum flip, idc if my scumreads fit perfectly together or not. I'm scumreading you three based on how I feel about each of you individually.

[Seanzie]

I'm doing a re-check of Alison to make sure I at least have done a case over her.

Then I'm going to check over Seanzie because while it might be hot there, it's fucking freezing over here and I need something to do while the eventual chill death of the universe turns me into an iceblock.

What temperature is it?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

If you think star is town you should have me lock town, if i were mafia and he's town I wouldn't be sheeping him I'd be trolling the shit out of him

[EnderWiggin]

I'm doing a re-check of Alison to make sure I at least have done a case over her.

Then I'm going to check over Seanzie because while it might be hot there, it's fucking freezing over here and I need something to do while the eventual chill death of the universe turns me into an iceblock.

What temperature is it?

Under 10c. That's bad enough. At least it's not negative.

[EnderWiggin]

If you think star is town you should have me lock town, if i were mafia and he's town I wouldn't be sheeping him I'd be trolling the shit out of him

What if. Now hear me out. But what if I don't townread either of you?

[EnderWiggin]

In Seanzie's world Me/Mac/Alison are all wolves.

Unless he somehow thinks we all powerwolf it up that makes... no sense?

Why doesn't it make sense?

You have less than half the posts you did D1 of AtLA, Mac has been meh thus far, and Alison posts a lot in short bursts, but otherwise has been MIA. I wouldn't describe any of your play as "power".

Powerwolf = Townreading your buddies hard and defending them.

Also, I had a much lower postcount in Ohio too? Albeit light game anyway, but I didn't even cap. If you're reading me purely off post-count you gotta realise that's more tied to my energy and availability than my alignment.

Uhh... Ohio was a light game with 60 posts per day, which completely changes how people post.

I'm not reading you based on postcount, but you said you'd have to be powerwolf and I associate strong threadcontrol with powerwolfing, and none of you are doing that. You're all lackluster compared to your normal town games thus far IMO.

Also, I have three scumreads, you're trying to make out that they have to fit perfectly together for that to make sense. Worldbuilding is important, but moreso after a scum flip. Pre-scum flip, idc if my scumreads fit perfectly together or not. I'm scumreading you three based on how I feel about each of you individually.

Alison is similar to the only towngame I've played with her. Low sample size but it is what it is.

Mac is... I need to see him actually town tbh. He's randed wolf every game we've shared.

[EnderWiggin]

Also yes Ohio is a lower post game, I'll agree, and I was very conscious of my post cap the entire time.

[EnderWiggin]

Hey Seanzie, you apparently had me as topish town on D1, what changed?

[Luckbox Inc]

[VOTE: Unvote] aubergine
ender villagery

[EnderWiggin]

Actually no. Fuck.

[EnderWiggin]

[VOTE: NotAnAxehole] aubergine

[EnderWiggin]

So I just re-read Seanzie and I actually think he's town. His reaction to townreads and his drive in D1 when he thought it was t/t feel very villagery.

Especially his threadstate analysis. Kick him up a bit in the green reads.

[EnderWiggin]

Axe is probably the person I'd like to chop most rn, but it's mostly a "I need to vote someone else than Seanzie" approach.