Everyone's JOATED: Guillo's Roles (Town Wins)

[Scotty]

You've suggested that Michelle being town would look bad for you, and that Michelle being scum would help clear you. But I don't remember you doing anything to elicit that kind of association. With Ender, yes, but not with Michelle.

It’s more the whole overarching premise of them being good. It would look like I’ve been peddling an agenda looking at their interactions. This was more targeted to my association with Ender but a town Michele invalidates my entire game imo

[Scotty]

ANd with Ender I did say he would need to be resolved but I thought based on his posting he was townie. If that is literally the reason I'm teamed with him then lol.

It’s more of a pattern IMO.

I can break it down in shorthand first:
Michele mentioned you once.
All of your interactions with Ender where he scumreads you are softball distancing. He even goes so far as to say you were safe for D1 but you could be resolved later.
You voted for…nook? D1, which was a throwaway vote early but you just rode with it, and you continue to do so to this day.
D2 you continued with nook, not adding anything to the trains at hand.
D3 you continue with the nook tunnel only to join the creature brigade, saying he looks towny, then unvoting after his death, leaving your vote on nothing.

That’s the skinny.

I also did only post 14 times D1 so really almost no one interacted with me.
I'm generally an easy miselim due to my low post style
And for the D1 Nook I said I was going to sleep and would try to catch up when I woke up, I woke up and by the time I caught up day had just ended.
The D2 and D3 Nook is because I do genuinely believe he is wolf.

True you didn’t do much D1. That doesn’t help your case.
And I townread you up until ender’s flip.

If nook is lynched and he comes up good, where does that leave you? Would you be comfortable being next in line?

I view it as “oh, I was just a tunneling town and we all make mistakes right guys?”

[Alison]

On the topic of possibly faked flips: could Gnome have been scum?

[listo95]

ANd with Ender I did say he would need to be resolved but I thought based on his posting he was townie. If that is literally the reason I'm teamed with him then lol.

It’s more of a pattern IMO.

I can break it down in shorthand first:
Michele mentioned you once.
All of your interactions with Ender where he scumreads you are softball distancing. He even goes so far as to say you were safe for D1 but you could be resolved later.
You voted for…nook? D1, which was a throwaway vote early but you just rode with it, and you continue to do so to this day.
D2 you continued with nook, not adding anything to the trains at hand.
D3 you continue with the nook tunnel only to join the creature brigade, saying he looks towny, then unvoting after his death, leaving your vote on nothing.

That’s the skinny.

I also did only post 14 times D1 so really almost no one interacted with me.
I'm generally an easy miselim due to my low post style
And for the D1 Nook I said I was going to sleep and would try to catch up when I woke up, I woke up and by the time I caught up day had just ended.
The D2 and D3 Nook is because I do genuinely believe he is wolf.

True you didn’t do much D1. That doesn’t help your case.
And I townread you up until ender’s flip.

If nook is lynched and he comes up good, where does that leave you? Would you be comfortable being next in line?

I view it as “oh, I was just a tunneling town and we all make mistakes right guys?”

I never do much D1 no matter my alignment. If he comes up town I'd understand the focus to get me yeeted. Would I like it? No, because I know I am town.

[Flea the Magician]

ANd with Ender I did say he would need to be resolved but I thought based on his posting he was townie. If that is literally the reason I'm teamed with him then lol.

It’s more of a pattern IMO.

I can break it down in shorthand first:
Michele mentioned you once.
All of your interactions with Ender where he scumreads you are softball distancing. He even goes so far as to say you were safe for D1 but you could be resolved later.
You voted for…nook? D1, which was a throwaway vote early but you just rode with it, and you continue to do so to this day.
D2 you continued with nook, not adding anything to the trains at hand.
D3 you continue with the nook tunnel only to join the creature brigade, saying he looks towny, then unvoting after his death, leaving your vote on nothing.

That’s the skinny.

I also did only post 14 times D1 so really almost no one interacted with me.
I'm generally an easy miselim due to my low post style
And for the D1 Nook I said I was going to sleep and would try to catch up when I woke up, I woke up and by the time I caught up day had just ended.
The D2 and D3 Nook is because I do genuinely believe he is wolf.

Wow now THAT is a steaming pile of horseshit.

Hi, I'm Flea The Magician - a low poster with lots of miselim potential. Especially as I've been frankly coasting most of the game.
If you wanna survive, gitgud, start hunting and lets do this.

Also fucking rip my second power.

[Scotty]

ANd with Ender I did say he would need to be resolved but I thought based on his posting he was townie. If that is literally the reason I'm teamed with him then lol.

It’s more of a pattern IMO.

I can break it down in shorthand first:
Michele mentioned you once.
All of your interactions with Ender where he scumreads you are softball distancing. He even goes so far as to say you were safe for D1 but you could be resolved later.
You voted for…nook? D1, which was a throwaway vote early but you just rode with it, and you continue to do so to this day.
D2 you continued with nook, not adding anything to the trains at hand.
D3 you continue with the nook tunnel only to join the creature brigade, saying he looks towny, then unvoting after his death, leaving your vote on nothing.

That’s the skinny.

I also did only post 14 times D1 so really almost no one interacted with me.
I'm generally an easy miselim due to my low post style
And for the D1 Nook I said I was going to sleep and would try to catch up when I woke up, I woke up and by the time I caught up day had just ended.
The D2 and D3 Nook is because I do genuinely believe he is wolf.

True you didn’t do much D1. That doesn’t help your case.
And I townread you up until ender’s flip.

If nook is lynched and he comes up good, where does that leave you? Would you be comfortable being next in line?

I view it as “oh, I was just a tunneling town and we all make mistakes right guys?”

I never do much D1 no matter my alignment. If he comes up town I'd understand the focus to get me yeeted. Would I like it? No, because I know I am town.

I’m not ripping you for your D1- hell, I work the same way off of information. Mine are usually straight Oscar-the-grouch-garbage. I’m just saying your day 1 does you no favors.

[hollowkatt]

Re: Michelle and Ender both claiming to be town, I'd assume anyone that flips mafia would claim that in DVC to confuse any townies who might be resurrected or communicate with living players.

I had a strong townread on Michelle D1: she was in her town meta, and her town meta is polarized. She also makes far more sense as the nightkill than Falcon. Conversely, the wolves submitting Bomb Maker on me suggests that they thought I blew up the person who visited LoMo, which means they probably knew a scum flipped that day. If the soupkill is faked, it's possible Michelle is town.

Whereas I think the Michelle flip is legit. The way she was handling me didn't make sense as someone who was trying to solve my alignment, the way she backed off based on someone elses recommendation (I think it was you actually) and yeah, I just trust that flip

[hollowkatt]

I expect to eat the NK tonight. I'm functionally confirmed town now (not that I wasn't D1/D2 b/c I was neon sign obvs town)
I really want to chop TH today, that's where I'm going to be pushing. The way the handled me D2 is just ultra butts.

[Scotty]

On the topic of possibly faked flips: could Gnome have been scum?

I swear to god I hope not.
If there’s some sort of janitor role..ok. But how many goddamned JOATS with that same role are there? Is it someone with a 3-shot ability?

Also why was HK even allowed to go to dead chat with others if there are RESURRECTIONS in this game? How do we know HK flipped town? How do I even know I’m town. My role card says it, but can I even trust that? Is my dog real? ARE MY FEET REAL JFC

[hollowkatt]

On the topic of possibly faked flips: could Gnome have been scum?

I swear to god I hope not.
If there’s some sort of janitor role..ok. But how many goddamned JOATS with that same role are there? Is it someone with a 3-shot ability?

Also why was HK even allowed to go to dead chat with others if there are RESURRECTIONS in this game? How do we know HK flipped town? How do I even know I’m town. My role card says it, but can I even trust that? Is my dog real? ARE MY FEET REAL JFC

DVC is unspoiled, have your existential crisis somewhere else

[Scotty]

I expect to eat the NK tonight. I'm functionally confirmed town now (not that I wasn't D1/D2 b/c I was neon sign obvs town)
I really want to chop TH today, that's where I'm going to be pushing. The way the handled me D2 is just ultra butts.

I see the opportunistic way they went about it, and I do understand your vitriol, but i entreat you to broaden your horizons from them. I also think they could be, but im having a very good feeling about listo today.

What are your thoughts on listo?

[Scotty]

Re: Michelle and Ender both claiming to be town, I'd assume anyone that flips mafia would claim that in DVC to confuse any townies who might be resurrected or communicate with living players.

I had a strong townread on Michelle D1: she was in her town meta, and her town meta is polarized. She also makes far more sense as the nightkill than Falcon. Conversely, the wolves submitting Bomb Maker on me suggests that they thought I blew up the person who visited LoMo, which means they probably knew a scum flipped that day. If the soupkill is faked, it's possible Michelle is town.

Whereas I think the Michelle flip is legit. The way she was handling me didn't make sense as someone who was trying to solve my alignment, the way she backed off based on someone elses recommendation (I think it was you actually) and yeah, I just trust that flip

Do you trust the Ender flip?

[Scotty]

ANd with Ender I did say he would need to be resolved but I thought based on his posting he was townie. If that is literally the reason I'm teamed with him then lol.

It’s more of a pattern IMO.

I can break it down in shorthand first:
Michele mentioned you once.
All of your interactions with Ender where he scumreads you are softball distancing. He even goes so far as to say you were safe for D1 but you could be resolved later.
You voted for…nook? D1, which was a throwaway vote early but you just rode with it, and you continue to do so to this day.
D2 you continued with nook, not adding anything to the trains at hand.
D3 you continue with the nook tunnel only to join the creature brigade, saying he looks towny, then unvoting after his death, leaving your vote on nothing.

That’s the skinny.

I also did only post 14 times D1 so really almost no one interacted with me.
I'm generally an easy miselim due to my low post style
And for the D1 Nook I said I was going to sleep and would try to catch up when I woke up, I woke up and by the time I caught up day had just ended.
The D2 and D3 Nook is because I do genuinely believe he is wolf.

Wow now THAT is a steaming pile of horseshit.

Hi, I'm Flea The Magician - a low poster with lots of miselim potential. Especially as I've been frankly coasting most of the game.
If you wanna survive, gitgud, start hunting and lets do this.

Also fucking rip my second power.

You lost your second power?

[hollowkatt]

I don't think there's any evidence pointing towards Ender being town. For Ender to be town, either Dolby is scum with a daykill and a faked soup on himself, or Dolby was insanified and Ender was death-framed. Both possibilities seem unlikely.

clearly there's some fuckery about though. Case in point my red on TSP. That wasn't faked yet he flipped town. So either I was insane but didn't know it, or TSP flipped wrong, or someone else impacted that investigation.

[hollowkatt]

I expect to eat the NK tonight. I'm functionally confirmed town now (not that I wasn't D1/D2 b/c I was neon sign obvs town)
I really want to chop TH today, that's where I'm going to be pushing. The way the handled me D2 is just ultra butts.

I see the opportunistic way they went about it, and I do understand your vitriol, but i entreat you to broaden your horizons from them. I also think they could be, but im having a very good feeling about listo today.

What are your thoughts on listo?

I don't really have any. Give me a bit to read them and i'll give you some thoughts.

Re: Michelle and Ender both claiming to be town, I'd assume anyone that flips mafia would claim that in DVC to confuse any townies who might be resurrected or communicate with living players.

I had a strong townread on Michelle D1: she was in her town meta, and her town meta is polarized. She also makes far more sense as the nightkill than Falcon. Conversely, the wolves submitting Bomb Maker on me suggests that they thought I blew up the person who visited LoMo, which means they probably knew a scum flipped that day. If the soupkill is faked, it's possible Michelle is town.

Whereas I think the Michelle flip is legit. The way she was handling me didn't make sense as someone who was trying to solve my alignment, the way she backed off based on someone elses recommendation (I think it was you actually) and yeah, I just trust that flip

Do you trust the Ender flip?

I'm torn there. I was town reading Ender D1/2, didn't pay much attention at all D3 on account of being dead.
Like Ender was solving and playing what i thought was a pretty townie game.

That said, I've HAD dolbys "kill a liar" role before and had it kill me when I used it b/c the post I thought was a lie wasn't.
Dolby fired off his action on the post where Ender said he was town, ender died. Ender flipped wolf. For that all to happen and ender to still be town takes a level of fuckery I don't think exists as it makes the game functionally impossible to play.

So yeah, that's a roundabout way of saying I do believe ender flipped his alignment and role.

[hollowkatt]

On the topic of possibly faked flips: could Gnome have been scum?

it's possible, maybe? Like their play wasn't super townie and they weren't super engaged, but I've seen gnome do that as town before as well where they're just kinda floating around the thread doing whatever they want to.

I'm leaning towards trusting the flips in general b/c that's literally all the information that we have to go on. If more than 1 flip is inaccurate I'm not sure how we solve this game.

Also also, do you think town or maf kidnapped you and why?

[Alison]

I think mafia kidnapped me because it doesn't make much sense for town to kidnap me there.

[Alison]

[VOTE: Scotty] aubergine

Scotty: your push on listo has been at least partially based on Ender associations. How does the suggestion of Ender being town (which I know you've been publicly grappling with and taking seriously) affect your read on listo?

[Scotty]

[VOTE: Scotty] aubergine

Scotty: your push on listo has been at least partially based on Ender associations. How does the suggestion of Ender being town (which I know you've been publicly grappling with and taking seriously) affect your read on listo?

If Ender is town it requires me to flip all of my reads upside down, including you.

And yes, the Ender scum flip is what makes me most suspicious.

Once I have some time to myself I’ll be able to show more closely my thoughts on listo’s behavior around the train d3. Or if you’re bored, you can look too, and tell me his pushes weren’t in some effort to dissuade the ender’s game

[listo95]

[VOTE: Scotty] aubergine

Scotty: your push on listo has been at least partially based on Ender associations. How does the suggestion of Ender being town (which I know you've been publicly grappling with and taking seriously) affect your read on listo?

If Ender is town it requires me to flip all of my reads upside down, including you.

And yes, the Ender scum flip is what makes me most suspicious.

Once I have some time to myself I’ll be able to show more closely my thoughts on listo’s behavior around the train d3. Or if you’re bored, you can look too, and tell me his pushes weren’t in some effort to dissuade the ender’s game

Let me just say this since none of you really know me. I love bussing my own team as scum.

[Scotty]

Also it’s probably my hubris talking but if the flips are actually as we see them, I should be looking very towny right about now.

I have to assume you’re voting me right now as a prod into getting me to produce reads on a town Ender, when I really don’t hVe the energy to do so. And frankly don’t care to do so because fuck that

[Scotty]

This whole interaction in particular is contrived.

Oh I literally do not sheep that at all. I fully believe Nanook is a wolf. My current other quick reads would be:
Creature - Wolf
Ender - Null (I do agree his spot needs to be resolved to get better D1 reads)
Scotty - Town
Alison - Town
TH - Honestly this does not feel like town TH to me so Wolf Lean

I think as of now those are my strongest reads besides the Nanook wolf.

"Strongest reads"

"Null"

Alright.

That portion was less for the null and more for the fact that you do need to be resolved for the most info gain imo.

Why? Because you can't read my posts so you need to POE me?

Well that and I do truly believe you will give a lot of info with your elimination.

That sounds like lazy play guv.

Is it a lazy play when it plays to my strength of having more info?

Especially considering listo then says Ender looks towny and votes creature.

That’s one

[Scotty]

Since you said it, listo, what information did you gain from ender’s flip? Besides that nook is bad

[listo95]

This whole interaction in particular is contrived.

"Strongest reads"

"Null"

Alright.

That portion was less for the null and more for the fact that you do need to be resolved for the most info gain imo.

Why? Because you can't read my posts so you need to POE me?

Well that and I do truly believe you will give a lot of info with your elimination.

That sounds like lazy play guv.

Is it a lazy play when it plays to my strength of having more info?

Especially considering listo then says Ender looks towny and votes creature.

That’s one

Because I literally thought Creature was a wolf and Ender was looking townie that day phase lol. If that is me being a wolf you honestly think I'm a terrible wolf.

[listo95]

Since you said it, listo, what information did you gain from ender’s flip? Besides that nook is bad

Like I said during last day. Creature is likely town now, Dolby is almost certainly town. I haven't had time to look at the votes yet and will do that sometime tomorrow because I have work soon.

[Scotty]

Since you said it, listo, what information did you gain from ender’s flip? Besides that nook is bad

Like I said during last day. Creature is likely town now, Dolby is almost certainly town. I haven't had time to look at the votes yet and will do that sometime tomorrow because I have work soon.

Are you making those reads because of Ender’s flip, or exclusive from it?

If we’ve caught 2 wolves, how many wolves do you think are left, and who is in your POE now? Besides nook

[listo95]

Since you said it, listo, what information did you gain from ender’s flip? Besides that nook is bad

Like I said during last day. Creature is likely town now, Dolby is almost certainly town. I haven't had time to look at the votes yet and will do that sometime tomorrow because I have work soon.

Are you making those reads because of Ender’s flip, or exclusive from it?

If we’ve caught 2 wolves, how many wolves do you think are left, and who is in your POE now? Besides nook

Those 2 are because of the flip.

Not including Nook I'd say my POE before looking at vote records is TH and Osie. Everyone else I feel like is town or town leaning. Maybe Lime as a distant 3rd?

[Alison]

I'm voting you because I haven't fully made up my mind as to where I want to vote and I felt your existential crisis stuff about possibly faked flips in a game you know is bastard felt kinda performative.

[Scotty]

I'm voting you because I haven't fully made up my mind as to where I want to vote and I felt your existential crisis stuff about possibly faked flips in a game you know is bastard felt kinda performative.

You’re gonna love playing with me again then

I’m nothing if not performative

[Scotty]

Since you said it, listo, what information did you gain from ender’s flip? Besides that nook is bad

Like I said during last day. Creature is likely town now, Dolby is almost certainly town. I haven't had time to look at the votes yet and will do that sometime tomorrow because I have work soon.

Are you making those reads because of Ender’s flip, or exclusive from it?

If we’ve caught 2 wolves, how many wolves do you think are left, and who is in your POE now? Besides nook

Those 2 are because of the flip.

Not including Nook I'd say my POE before looking at vote records is TH and Osie. Everyone else I feel like is town or town leaning. Maybe Lime as a distant 3rd?

But why does the flip give you that impression? I did see in your iso right after he flipped that you made these reads, but you never said why

[Alison]

So worldbuilding:

If Ender is indeed scum, Creature is probably cleared, Mac is probably cleared, Scotty is cleared.

If Ender is town, Creature is most likely outed, Mac is not quite outed but goes down quite a bit, Scotty is outed.

Dolby is most likely town no matter what except in the exact scenario that he is scum with a daykill and Ender was framed. That is pretty unlikely so I'm just going to take Dolby as clear.

TH and osie have been largely ignored by the thread but there have been no good reasons to clear them. There is probably scum laying low here and coasting by. TH probably fits that behavioral pattern more than osie.

Creature/Mac/Scotty seem chained together in alignment because of Ender interactions. I don't think that all three or scum or even that two out of three are scum, except for the world of Creature/Scotty with town Ender. Unless we live in that world, I'd probably be happy to give all three a day pass.

Nanook looks good but not clearing-levels of good in scum Ender worlds, because in that world he sheeped two townies and voteparked on a mafia in a close EOD.

[Lime Coke]

I'm actually confused with what HK has come back to say but at least it's nice to have a resurrected town?

[listo95]

Since you said it, listo, what information did you gain from ender’s flip? Besides that nook is bad

Like I said during last day. Creature is likely town now, Dolby is almost certainly town. I haven't had time to look at the votes yet and will do that sometime tomorrow because I have work soon.

Are you making those reads because of Ender’s flip, or exclusive from it?

If we’ve caught 2 wolves, how many wolves do you think are left, and who is in your POE now? Besides nook

Those 2 are because of the flip.

Not including Nook I'd say my POE before looking at vote records is TH and Osie. Everyone else I feel like is town or town leaning. Maybe Lime as a distant 3rd?

But why does the flip give you that impression? I did see in your iso right after he flipped that you made these reads, but you never said why

Dolby is because I don't think a teammate would shoot another in thread. The Creature is because of Ender trying to get him yeeted.

[hollowkatt]

people who died and their in thread flips

people who've died at "night"
falcon - town
michelle - wolf
Honey - town
LoMo - town

People who died during the day NOT chopped
Seanzie - town - Died shooting a gun
TSP - town - shot by dolby
Ender - wolf - liar claimed by dolby

Chops
mansnicks - town
HK - town
Gnome - town

Flips I think are accurate and why:
mansnicks - I have seen him play exactly this way as town. Don't think I've seen a wolf game though
honey - was obvs town. if honey is actually a wolf she's like god tier at being town
seanzie - his wolf game is vastly different than what he played here
Ender - I have been lie killer like that before and it would take some catastrophic fuckery to be incorrect
Michelle - I think her play was super wolfy, talked briefly about that earlier today
HK - duh
Falcon - I felt their play was town, none of the pushes they made struck me as being advantageous or looking for town chops. Falcon town feels right to me

I have no idea why LoMo would have been targeted last night over literally anyone else? I guess you'd avoid alison/mac (if they're town) for doc dodging, but with all the other fuckery running around being able to force a kill through doesn't seem out of the question for a wolf team here, so why not take a shot at either of them?

TSP I'm torn on. Obvs they flipped town in the thread, but also I did have a red on them so someone fucked with something there. TSP did maintain he was town in DVC. Ender and Falcon had a bit of a spat about how Falcon thinks ender can't read him well, but that's probably not AI.

[Alison]

This suggests that I should probably not be voting Scotty based of these worlds. TH/osie have scum equity regardless of flips and there is probably 1/2 mafia there. I think Nanook is actually really likely to be scum if Ender is town because as mafia, he loves sheeping townies with bad tunnels (see basic mafia) to allow town to self destruct.

I've thought about worldbuilding for Michelle but they don't seem drastically different. We've already done most of the legwork for scum Michelle worlds since we've been living in that world the whole game. For town Michelle worlds, I'm not sure who it would implicate or clear; town Michelle tends to get N1ed very often regardless of reads.

[hollowkatt]

I'm actually confused with what HK has come back to say but at least it's nice to have a resurrected town?

what's confusing and what can I do to help clear any confusion?

[Alison]

@hollowkatt @TonyStarkPrime If you have any important info please share it in a single post in your chat.

Huh? What chat

discord chats.

LoMo said this, clearly indicating that he had a medium-type ability, and was shot at night.

This strongly implies that at least one of the flips is fake and the mafia team did not want LoMo to reveal that dead people are claiming they flipped wrong.

It probably also makes the soup kill a little more likely to be real because if the soup kill was faked the mafia team could use their real soupkill on LoMo instead of wasting a nightkill on him. I'm not sure why LoMo was shot if the soup kill was real, given that it states they lost their factional ability - it's possible that they have extra KP, or some kind of conditional killing ability in that world.

[hollowkatt]

@hollowkatt @TonyStarkPrime If you have any important info please share it in a single post in your chat.

Huh? What chat

discord chats.

LoMo said this, clearly indicating that he had a medium-type ability, and was shot at night.

This strongly implies that at least one of the flips is fake and the mafia team did not want LoMo to reveal that dead people are claiming they flipped wrong.

It probably also makes the soup kill a little more likely to be real because if the soup kill was faked the mafia team could use their real soupkill on LoMo instead of wasting a nightkill on him. I'm not sure why LoMo was shot if the soup kill was real, given that it states they lost their factional ability - it's possible that they have extra KP, or some kind of conditional killing ability in that world.

ok, that makes a lot of sense then. Also implies that TSP flipped his accurate role, meaning my results were fucked with (if we assume I am town)

[Alison]

MIchelle flipped a framer role so if you red checked TSP and he flipped town I'd lean towards assuming he was framed rather than some wild theory about being able to fake a green flip on a mafia who's daykilled.

[hollowkatt]

MIchelle flipped a framer role so if you red checked TSP and he flipped town I'd lean towards assuming he was framed rather than some wild theory about being able to fake a green flip on a mafia who's daykilled.

what are the odds michelle and I both target TSP N1

x2 Killing Framer
The killing framer may at night target a player. The killing framer will kill one random person who targets that player with a night action on that same night (except for investigations), in addition to making your target immune to the person's actions that night. If targeted by investigation actions, your target will show as opposite alignment. If targeted by multiple people, no one dies.

Michelle would have targeted TSP to frame him yeah? Then I'd have to target TSP to investigate him as a wolf and the only reason I didn't die is b/c I investigated him instead of did something else.
Sure, not out of the realm of possibilities

[Alison]

[VOTE: TH] aubergine

Lime Coke is in a weird state for me. If Ender is scum then he's scumsided with his pushes pretty hard and I found his D1 posting to be pretty wolfy. To his credit is the fact that his interactions with honey looked T/T and kind of unnecessary for a mafia to fake (if he's scum and honey is town he'd get more mileage from letting me/Mac tunnel her and then turning the heat around on us when she flips town than by going for a level 1 white knight play). He was also one of the people included in the soupkill, and a genuine soupkill attempt on Lime Coke fits best in a scum Ender world rather than a town Ender one. The soupkill attempt is at least plausible - he did soft doc or some variant of protective role a couple of times and was visibly tilted when his pet townread and in-game best friend died at night. Adding everything up, probably leaning slightly more town than scum, but keep holding him accountable for his pushes.

I don't know what to make of Flea. Fae haven't really gotten into the meat of the interactions and pushes and had a weird reluctance to push Ender yesterday asking me if I was sure and stating that fae didn't want to commit to the vote (implied to be for some mech reason, like an ability that shorts out if they vote town or something). I think fae are still overall townie on play, especially on D2, and I am looking forward to seeing faer tryhard solving today.

[Alison]

MIchelle flipped a framer role so if you red checked TSP and he flipped town I'd lean towards assuming he was framed rather than some wild theory about being able to fake a green flip on a mafia who's daykilled.

what are the odds michelle and I both target TSP N1

x2 Killing Framer
The killing framer may at night target a player. The killing framer will kill one random person who targets that player with a night action on that same night (except for investigations), in addition to making your target immune to the person's actions that night. If targeted by investigation actions, your target will show as opposite alignment. If targeted by multiple people, no one dies.

Michelle would have targeted TSP to frame him yeah? Then I'd have to target TSP to investigate him as a wolf and the only reason I didn't die is b/c I investigated him instead of did something else.
Sure, not out of the realm of possibilities

I don't think it's that unlikely, TSP is exactly the kind of slot cops love to investigate N1.

[Lime Coke]

I'm actually confused with what HK has come back to say but at least it's nice to have a resurrected town?

what's confusing and what can I do to help clear any confusion?

What has been said in DVC? Like the whole "I flipped wrong" shit that's been said by a few people in that. It's making this difficult as hell to solve.

[Alison]

A raw claim of "I flipped wrong" doesn't prove anything. Genuine town will claim they flipped wrong if they did flip wrong. Genuine mafia will lie about flipping wrong just to mess with town. If HK has a strong read on who in DVC was lying, we can listen to that. Absent that, the best way to proceed as I have mentioned is to build worlds where X is town, and then build worlds where X is mafia, and compare the worlds: is anyone scum regardless of the flip? Whose alignments are dependent on/chained to each other? Who has a difference check with someone else?

For a period of time I played exclusively flipless mafia: this is one of the strategies used to try to coherently gamesolve in the absence of flips. Since "I flipped wrong" doesn't tell us anything, we can almost treat slots like Michelle and Ender as being psuedo-flipless and try to suss out either their alignment or the alignment of those associated with them through worldbuilding.

[hollowkatt]

I'm actually confused with what HK has come back to say but at least it's nice to have a resurrected town?

what's confusing and what can I do to help clear any confusion?

What has been said in DVC? Like the whole "I flipped wrong" shit that's been said by a few people in that. It's making this difficult as hell to solve.

brief synopsis/highlights:
Falcon/Ender conversation about how Ender can't read Falcon
Ender claimed his flip is wrong and he's town. Thinks Dolby is a wolf.
Michelle claimed her flip is wrong and she's town. Thinks Alison might be a wolf.
Honey thinks Alison is a wolf and thinks Scotty is a wolf (I think)
Mansnicks thinks Scotty is a wolf
TSP didn't really say much of anything other than my check was wrong.
LoMo said hi, then I left dvc

I'm sure I'm forgetting things, please don't take this as an exhaustive list.

[hollowkatt]

A raw claim of "I flipped wrong" doesn't prove anything. Genuine town will claim they flipped wrong if they did flip wrong. Genuine mafia will lie about flipping wrong just to mess with town. If HK has a strong read on who in DVC was lying, we can listen to that. Absent that, the best way to proceed as I have mentioned is to build worlds where X is town, and then build worlds where X is mafia, and compare the worlds: is anyone scum regardless of the flip? Whose alignments are dependent on/chained to each other? Who has a difference check with someone else?

For a period of time I played exclusively flipless mafia: this is one of the strategies used to try to coherently gamesolve in the absence of flips. Since "I flipped wrong" doesn't tell us anything, we can almost treat slots like Michelle and Ender as being psuedo-flipless and try to suss out either their alignment or the alignment of those associated with them through worldbuilding.

I agree with Alison here. Obvs wolves are going to lie about their flip obvs town won't lie about their flip.
Personally I believe Ender and Michelle flipped accurately.
Michelle tried arguing that Falcon was killed by town and that mafia killed Michelle and I don't believe that.

I wouldn't try solving via "who flipped wrong" though as down that path lies madness

[Lime Coke]

Looking at the list, honestly, I might've misread TH or got fooled by her being on the Honey Protection Squad and had her town for it. She hasn't done much this game at all other than hard push HK and the Honey stuff but there is no pressure on her at all.

[Scotty]

A raw claim of "I flipped wrong" doesn't prove anything. Genuine town will claim they flipped wrong if they did flip wrong. Genuine mafia will lie about flipping wrong just to mess with town. If HK has a strong read on who in DVC was lying, we can listen to that. Absent that, the best way to proceed as I have mentioned is to build worlds where X is town, and then build worlds where X is mafia, and compare the worlds: is anyone scum regardless of the flip? Whose alignments are dependent on/chained to each other? Who has a difference check with someone else?

For a period of time I played exclusively flipless mafia: this is one of the strategies used to try to coherently gamesolve in the absence of flips. Since "I flipped wrong" doesn't tell us anything, we can almost treat slots like Michelle and Ender as being psuedo-flipless and try to suss out either their alignment or the alignment of those associated with them through worldbuilding.

That’s like asking me to play Warhammer in a checkers game, and I only know how to play monopoly.

[Scotty]

I'm actually confused with what HK has come back to say but at least it's nice to have a resurrected town?

what's confusing and what can I do to help clear any confusion?

What has been said in DVC? Like the whole "I flipped wrong" shit that's been said by a few people in that. It's making this difficult as hell to solve.

brief synopsis/highlights:
Falcon/Ender conversation about how Ender can't read Falcon
Ender claimed his flip is wrong and he's town. Thinks Dolby is a wolf.
Michelle claimed her flip is wrong and she's town. Thinks Alison might be a wolf.
Honey thinks Alison is a wolf and thinks Scotty is a wolf (I think)
Mansnicks thinks Scotty is a wolf
TSP didn't really say much of anything other than my check was wrong.
LoMo said hi, then I left dvc

I'm sure I'm forgetting things, please don't take this as an exhaustive list.

In a game with strict OGI restrictions and mod killing, I have no idea how any of this is allowed.

Because it’s literally outside of the game.

But aight let’s get matrix up in here

[Scotty]

A raw claim of "I flipped wrong" doesn't prove anything. Genuine town will claim they flipped wrong if they did flip wrong. Genuine mafia will lie about flipping wrong just to mess with town. If HK has a strong read on who in DVC was lying, we can listen to that. Absent that, the best way to proceed as I have mentioned is to build worlds where X is town, and then build worlds where X is mafia, and compare the worlds: is anyone scum regardless of the flip? Whose alignments are dependent on/chained to each other? Who has a difference check with someone else?

For a period of time I played exclusively flipless mafia: this is one of the strategies used to try to coherently gamesolve in the absence of flips. Since "I flipped wrong" doesn't tell us anything, we can almost treat slots like Michelle and Ender as being psuedo-flipless and try to suss out either their alignment or the alignment of those associated with them through worldbuilding.

I agree with Alison here. Obvs wolves are going to lie about their flip obvs town won't lie about their flip.
Personally I believe Ender and Michelle flipped accurately.
Michelle tried arguing that Falcon was killed by town and that mafia killed Michelle and I don't believe that.

I wouldn't try solving via "who flipped wrong" though as down that path lies madness

I feel as though they must know that there would be some sort of resurrection abilities in play or else, like..I know I would’ve come out as wolf for sure in a dead chat. Dead is dead