Batman: The Animated Series mafia win

[Syn]

for totally innocent reasons I'm sure

[Seanzie]

Spoiler: show

LC, Sean, Falcon all town.

Made is scum.

[VOTE: Made] aubergine

I’m gonna pretend you’re town and Esooa is trying to pocket me instead of the other way around.

Thank you for claiming scum and spewing Esooa and Seanzie town.

Nah. It’s a framework. In it ur the obvious scum, esooa is sus for distracting me from you and Sean and ride or die homie. Could be entirely wrong, but that’s the frame work rn. If ur town, essoa look better and Sean looks worst

This is a terrible attempt to set up a dichotomy between two players that are already feuding and Made's agenda is dripping from every word. Just turbo this slot please.

More Alison/Seanzie.

They could be parroting previous game to distance.

I don't know if I'm just confbiasing here because I already think Seanzie is wolf.

I find it interesting that yesterday when you were wasting time doing your "who isn't a wolf together" stuff, you had me and Alison as not w/w. I told you that was useless busywork

Gives me basis to build worlds. Still could be correct on that.

My point is to provide my thoughts and situation to town so that they know where I was and what I was thinking.

If it ends up being wrong I'll take that L.

How do you weigh rules of 3 vs. your original reason for thinking Alison and I are not w/w?

Rule of 3 is weak.

My original read of your interaction was decent.

The follow on interactions and the light defense from Alison make me think I was wrong, but it could be a white knight.

Objectively it's hard to balance.

Subjectively I know I want to be right about you being wolf lmao.

Seems kind of agenda-y to push reads that you admit here are weak over reads you say are "decent", especially regarding a player like Alison, who as a wolf is very aware of Rule of 3, and I'm sure purposefully tries to exploit it.

[falcon45ca]

Falcon u defended alison day one btw so

I'm still not convinced she's a wolf, but I'm not gonna campaign against her lynch if that makes any sense?

rofl what

Just read it slower, it makes sense.



At least it does to me.

Falc.

She's admitted she's scum.

Then why aren't you voting for her?

Because I have a day to re-read her ISO and out spew before we get to nightphase? No reason to rush this.

OK, fair enough.

[falcon45ca]

Falcon just wants us to hammer

for totally innocent reasons I'm sure

You're gonna have to fill me in on this 4D chess move, cuz' I'm having troubles reading between the lines.


It almost sounds like you're saying I want you to hammer Alison for reasons that AREN'T innocent?

[falcon45ca]

Syn, who else is in your POE besides me, Ender & Alison?

[Kami]

literally nothing falcon says has made sense the entire game tbh

[falcon45ca]

literally nothing falcon says has made sense the entire game tbh

Remember when he voted Maf? What a fool

[EnderWiggin]

Spoiler: show

I’m finished reading now. Still need some time to think, but immediate reactions are

I think Seanzie vs Epi is probably town vs town. Just a feeling if one of them was a wolf they would have moved on or let it go sooner or something.

I’ve never played with Transcend before, but I think they come off all right so far.

I think I see some of what I associate with town Alison. Not enough to defend or vote to save or anything at this point, but I think she’s ok for now.

I’ve seen some decent points made about Made but at least one I disagree with ( the posts about him conveniently returning to the thread as if scum buddies told them to get in. That’s almost never actually the case. People just post when they want to) did I read correctly he had 6 votes at one point though? That seems a lot for this early.

EnderWiggin seems very different then the last game I played with him when he was town. Just something I’m watching.

I’m trying to remember if there was anything else but my kids demanding attention

1) Why? Wolves love getting sucked into unproductive fights that spiral into a dozen-page-long horror show and make the rest of the town unable to do any real solving. I'm scumreading neither Seanzie nor Epi, but this is an odd reason to call their fight TvT.

2) What do you make of that?

hollowkat/trans/falcon gg ez

This is a terrible solve.

Made's wagon went from nearly being hammered to a paltry two people including me. All the Made suspicion has seemingly melted away despite Made having done nothing townie to clear himself.

On the other hand Kami enters the thread with terrible reads and proclaims Made to be the towniest person in the game which I think is borderline TMI given how wolfy he has been this game.

[VOTE: Kami] aubergine

@EnderWiggin Sheep me.

Kami is not the move because

Transcend makes a good point of Hollow making a town slip on having 3, not 4, mafia guesses. Might put Hollow in town core, at least I'm not voting him day 1.

Except replace hollow with kami

It's kinda stupid but I think it's probably accurate. Plus her stubbornness was kinda towny despite being a bit extra.

Alison: I'm not gonna quote the post to avoid this one being lengthy but I don't rly agree with ur tr on rondo. To me it read as a giant novel just to explain that he was omgusing until further notice, and also him blaming made for bringing suspicion onto him where it was Syn who brought up his silent vote, I reminded everyone of what they said and Made and a few others agreed. I think sring the spot would be a stretch at this moment but I def didn't find the post towny.

U did seem at least concerned enough about finger to question how she arrived at tvt on epi and Sean. Have u read my wall dissecting her entire post? I feel that mega post is loaded w red flags from her. I want ur thoughts on it if u get the chance.

I don't give townpoints for a derpclear like that. It could easily be expressing a POE even - these are the three names I suspect. Not like she was claiming that was the exact mafia team.

Rondo's giant post is very clearly roleplay. It can be summed up as follows: "My naked vote was nothing but a reaction test. I think it's scummy Made tried to shift pressure off him by attacking an LHF slot who wasn't around to defend themselves." This is a perfectly reasonable post and it is slightly townie that they are actually making reads and not just screwing around like many wolves do when they play on gimmick accounts.

I have concerns about finger yes. She has done nothing townie and in my experience she is a billboard as town. I agree with your call that calling Sean/Epi TvT could be possible TMI, and have questioned her reasons for reading them as such. I'm not concerned about the "thread consensus parroting", she does that as town too. I'm "meh" on the point about Made suspicion. She thinks the points against Made are good, but thinks one specific point is bad. It's whatever. I think your point about her not specifying why Ender was different and taking a hedgey stance towards him was good.

1. Depends on the person if they would love that as a wolf. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a wolf Seanzie before, and tbh I wouldn’t say it’s out of the possibility for a wolf Epi to act in this manner, but just seems more likely to be town to me based on tone. Back to Seanzie, he seemed frustrated at Epi’s stubbornness at times but the questioning still seemed like he was still genuinely trying to solve.

2. If the 6 votes had stayed longer, it would have made me feel like perhaps Made was just an easy target for wolves. But I’m wondering if there is any merit to the points and if some were just scum buddies getting in early votes in case he flipped but then moved away when the suspicion died down. TBD

1) It sounds like you're changing your story then. You say that Epi vs Seanzie is TvT, because a wolf would have broken it off earlier. But then you say that you don't know either of them well enough to say that they would definitely break it off as a wolf (and admit that it's well within Epi's scumrange), and the real reason they are TvT is that Seanzie's frustration is genuine.

What about Epi? You say that it's well within the realms of possibility for a wolf Epi to hold onto the argument, so what makes you certain his side of it is T?

2) Would you say you have a firm scumread on Made now?

[VOTE: Kami] aubergine

@EnderWiggin Sheep me.

You literally got voted day 1 while saying I was 100% mafia last game begging people to vote me, maybe don't ask anyone to sheep you if you can't read someone at all.
Or maybe you like getting embarrassed

I got voted out by mafia in the worst CFD I have ever seen after misreading you D1 in one game.

That must mean that I suck at reading you and am not allowed to push you ever again despite you having reads that are both awful, unexplained and probably TMI.

[VOTE: Kami] aubergine

@EnderWiggin Sheep me.

You literally got voted day 1 while saying I was 100% mafia last game begging people to vote me, maybe don't ask anyone to sheep you if you can't read someone at all.
Or maybe you like getting embarrassed

I got voted out by mafia in the worst CFD I have ever seen after misreading you D1 in one game.

That must mean that I suck at reading you and am not allowed to push you ever again despite you having reads that are both awful, unexplained and probably TMI.

Naw I think it was your own actions that put you in that position

You can continue being misinformed about what happened in Lasagna Mafia if you'd like. As I recall I was voting actual mafia before Hyena CFDed me and claimed an N0 on Creature to save their skins.

Regardless that has no impact on what's going on this game. You have given me three reads that I strongly disagree with with zero explanation for two of them and a bad explanation for one (trying hard to ignore people pointing out that Transcend has a meta of doing this every game). If your only defense against me pointing out how wolfy this is is "you misread me once >:(" then you are essentially proffering no defense at all to the specific charges I have laid against you this game.

What is there to defend against? You disagree with how I read people in WW that's not my problem. I will always ignore meta I do not know and you are free to think that's scummy.

Why is Made the towniest person in the thread?

Why is falcon scum?

can made/kami be partnered? I'm too lazy to look

I think the way Kami is treating Made is more like her TMI-ing him town than them being partners. Which is part of why I am shifting to Kami over Made.

can made/kami be partnered? I'm too lazy to look

I think the way Kami is treating Made is more like her TMI-ing him town than them being partners. Which is part of why I am shifting to Kami over Made.

Why is everything tmi to everyone? ive seen this phrased used like 50 times already this game

I called it TMI because you had an excessive amount of certainty on someone who, to my mind, has done nothing townie.

If you wish to point out specific posts he has made that is townie or justifies your read on him go ahead. Saying "he's just townie idk" only reinforces my thought that it is TMI.

Confidence =/= TMI.

Confidence without evidence = TMI.

The basic concept of TMI is that the wolves know exactly who is town and who is mafia so they don't have to do things like read posts or examine pushes to find out people's alignments. These are things that townies have to do. If someone has done nothing townie, and you confidently townread them but find yourself unable to explain what exactly they have done that is townie, I am inclined to think that you have gotten your information about them from a source beyond reading their posts and examining their pushes. This is the basis of my accusation against you.

All the wolves are voting made btw omegalul

You think all wolves are piling on the same LHF D1?

Not into the HK push. I don't think he's been flying under the radar that much. He just had a big argument with Kami.

I rescind my Rondo townread. I read his wallpost and all it does is summarize the reads that players have given in the game without adding his own thoughts to it.

Sus post btw, you dip in for this soft defense of HK but you completely twist the events and then leave.
HK was called out for being under the radar way before we argued, so at the time he was getting pushed he 100% was under the radar.

Also how could you ever townread rondo to begin with?

Why would a mafia member pursuing a UTR strat suddenly strike up a huge argument with another player? Unless the narrative is "HK was trying to be UTR as mafia, was called out on it, and then attacked another player to allay suspicions", but I don't see why that's more likely than just "HK had a quiet entrance and then got into an argument like he always does".

I've already given my reasons for townreading Rondo at the time.

Also you still twisted the events to defend him, why would you purposefully twist what happened to fit your narrative of hk town?

I did not twist any events.

Also you still twisted the events to defend him, why would you purposefully twist what happened to fit your narrative of hk town?

I did not twist any events.

You did though, HK was called out for being UTR before the argument, which means the push was valid.

Syn said: HK is UTR.
HK engages in an argument with you.
I say: HK is not UTR, he just engaged in an argument with you. I don't see a reason to exe HK.

How is that twisting events? HK is no longer hiding UTR, he's out and arguing with people.

Also you still twisted the events to defend him, why would you purposefully twist what happened to fit your narrative of hk town?

I did not twist any events.

You did though, HK was called out for being UTR before the argument, which means the push was valid.

Syn said: HK is UTR.
HK engages in an argument with you.
I say: HK is not UTR, he just engaged in an argument with you. I don't see a reason to exe HK.

How is that twisting events? HK is no longer hiding UTR, he's out and arguing with people.

Because youre saying you didn't like the push, but the push happened before why youre saying the push is bad.
So yeah you twisted events to defend hk?

He was UTR until called out, the push is valid.

I said I'm not feeling the HK wagon, not that Syn was scum for making the HK push.

I don't care whether the push was "valid" at the time, the evidence available to me right now suggests zero good reason to vote HK.

i'd be fine if made/hollow competed

don't rly think anyone would have a problem with that

epi is... unique to say the least, i wouldn't vote him out today

I would prefer Made/Kami

I am going back to the "Kami TMI'd Made town" theory.

[VOTE: Kami] aubergine

Kami has repeatedly tried to tie her alignment to Made's (eg. #1095, "Me and Made are the most obvious townies in the thread"). There is no reason to believe Made is town at that point and she has proffered no reasoning behind "his posts are townie idk". She has also repeatedly attacked anyone accusing her of blatant TMI and attempted to discredit them, including an attempt to push Transcend who is obvious town. I believe she was banking on Made flipping town (especially with buddies she can call on to pile on votes on him) and attempted to use him as a cheap way to give herself credit.

i mean i was the one who pointed out her push was hedgy first but yeah it really was

I'd chop Epi before I'd chop finger just based on my diving last night. His D1 was hot shit.

I said as much re: the hedginess in #571 and #573.

I find it hard to scumread HK because he is hard Alison-siding. If he is trying to pocket me as a wolf he is essentially giving me a doublevote to do so. His thoughts aligned with mine on both Made and Kami and I think Kami is scum so it is a good look that he moved off Made to park on Kami after she threw a tantrum. If HK is scum he is either townsiding in which case we should force him to continue voting his teammates or I am barking up the wrong tree, which I don't think I am.

he was a doublevote for u for maybe like the first bit of the game but then his vote flip flopped every which way throughout the rest of the day

riddle me this, in a world that kami is mod confirmed town, what alignment do u think HK is?

If Kami is mod confirmed town HK is outed wolf. In that world I would be completely off base D1 and HK is doing the thing nanook likes to do where he hard sheeps people with bad reads and lets them self destruct.

Flipping the question around on you. If Kami is mod confirmed scum, what alignment is HK?

Flipping the question around on you. If Kami is mod confirmed scum, what alignment is HK?

probs town given that some of their exchanges look pretty genuine

I agree. I think Kami is likely scum. Therefore I find it hard to get behind a HK wagon while Kami is still alive.

is there any other meat to your case besides "bad reads" and possible tmi on made?

Throwing an anti-town temper tantrum with a heavy dose of AtE. Constantly tries to discredit and undermine me.

I skimmed it. I think your point about her read of you and Seanzie being TvT (and dare I say, TMI) is fine. I said as much when she first made that read. I agree with your suspicions, and I have Kami and splints as top suspects. I think I suspect Kami slightly more still, but I would love if the two of them were competing wagons.

assuming a world where sean/epi are both town

which is worse, tmi on one dude or tmi on two dudes

I think calling a squabble between two players TvT is less blatant than calling someone who did nothing townie "the towniest player in the game". This is sort of splitting hairs though. I am happy to exe splints as well.

@Transcend A point has been made that Kami's general stubbornness, tantrum-throwing etc. is just indicative of her personality more than her alignment. How does this impact your read that her conviction/stubbornness makes her townie?

@Kami Why are you spending all your time casing me and Transcend and voting HK though?

She hasn't made a case other than "TMI LOL"

I listed like five reasons why I suspected you.

If we entertain a world where Kami is town it's probably HK which means it's probably also Epi for hard tunnelling splints to divert early pressure from HK.

But I am not yet convinced that is the most likely world.

finger is what the mafia will push today as a counter to HK

Hk is outed hk dies in nearly every universe

Let ppl discuss w the time we're given

Then why is alisonn voting finger

Because I decided to move my vote off you and my next top suspect was fingersplints.

anyone who mindmelds that amount with me cant be mafia

This is nonsense and you know it.

30ish posts of Transcend/Kami/Alison where Alison tries really hard to push Kami and Transcend defends Kami.

Honestly doesn't read like Theatre.

I kinda wanna say Transcend/Kami lock v as well. Which makes Kami/Transcend/Fingers/Falcon/Esooa a winning towncore even without me.

[Seanzie]

Spoiler: show

I’m finished reading now. Still need some time to think, but immediate reactions are

I think Seanzie vs Epi is probably town vs town. Just a feeling if one of them was a wolf they would have moved on or let it go sooner or something.

I’ve never played with Transcend before, but I think they come off all right so far.

I think I see some of what I associate with town Alison. Not enough to defend or vote to save or anything at this point, but I think she’s ok for now.

I’ve seen some decent points made about Made but at least one I disagree with ( the posts about him conveniently returning to the thread as if scum buddies told them to get in. That’s almost never actually the case. People just post when they want to) did I read correctly he had 6 votes at one point though? That seems a lot for this early.

EnderWiggin seems very different then the last game I played with him when he was town. Just something I’m watching.

I’m trying to remember if there was anything else but my kids demanding attention

1) Why? Wolves love getting sucked into unproductive fights that spiral into a dozen-page-long horror show and make the rest of the town unable to do any real solving. I'm scumreading neither Seanzie nor Epi, but this is an odd reason to call their fight TvT.

2) What do you make of that?

hollowkat/trans/falcon gg ez

This is a terrible solve.

Made's wagon went from nearly being hammered to a paltry two people including me. All the Made suspicion has seemingly melted away despite Made having done nothing townie to clear himself.

On the other hand Kami enters the thread with terrible reads and proclaims Made to be the towniest person in the game which I think is borderline TMI given how wolfy he has been this game.

[VOTE: Kami] aubergine

@EnderWiggin Sheep me.

Kami is not the move because

Transcend makes a good point of Hollow making a town slip on having 3, not 4, mafia guesses. Might put Hollow in town core, at least I'm not voting him day 1.

Except replace hollow with kami

It's kinda stupid but I think it's probably accurate. Plus her stubbornness was kinda towny despite being a bit extra.

Alison: I'm not gonna quote the post to avoid this one being lengthy but I don't rly agree with ur tr on rondo. To me it read as a giant novel just to explain that he was omgusing until further notice, and also him blaming made for bringing suspicion onto him where it was Syn who brought up his silent vote, I reminded everyone of what they said and Made and a few others agreed. I think sring the spot would be a stretch at this moment but I def didn't find the post towny.

U did seem at least concerned enough about finger to question how she arrived at tvt on epi and Sean. Have u read my wall dissecting her entire post? I feel that mega post is loaded w red flags from her. I want ur thoughts on it if u get the chance.

I don't give townpoints for a derpclear like that. It could easily be expressing a POE even - these are the three names I suspect. Not like she was claiming that was the exact mafia team.

Rondo's giant post is very clearly roleplay. It can be summed up as follows: "My naked vote was nothing but a reaction test. I think it's scummy Made tried to shift pressure off him by attacking an LHF slot who wasn't around to defend themselves." This is a perfectly reasonable post and it is slightly townie that they are actually making reads and not just screwing around like many wolves do when they play on gimmick accounts.

I have concerns about finger yes. She has done nothing townie and in my experience she is a billboard as town. I agree with your call that calling Sean/Epi TvT could be possible TMI, and have questioned her reasons for reading them as such. I'm not concerned about the "thread consensus parroting", she does that as town too. I'm "meh" on the point about Made suspicion. She thinks the points against Made are good, but thinks one specific point is bad. It's whatever. I think your point about her not specifying why Ender was different and taking a hedgey stance towards him was good.

1. Depends on the person if they would love that as a wolf. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a wolf Seanzie before, and tbh I wouldn’t say it’s out of the possibility for a wolf Epi to act in this manner, but just seems more likely to be town to me based on tone. Back to Seanzie, he seemed frustrated at Epi’s stubbornness at times but the questioning still seemed like he was still genuinely trying to solve.

2. If the 6 votes had stayed longer, it would have made me feel like perhaps Made was just an easy target for wolves. But I’m wondering if there is any merit to the points and if some were just scum buddies getting in early votes in case he flipped but then moved away when the suspicion died down. TBD

1) It sounds like you're changing your story then. You say that Epi vs Seanzie is TvT, because a wolf would have broken it off earlier. But then you say that you don't know either of them well enough to say that they would definitely break it off as a wolf (and admit that it's well within Epi's scumrange), and the real reason they are TvT is that Seanzie's frustration is genuine.

What about Epi? You say that it's well within the realms of possibility for a wolf Epi to hold onto the argument, so what makes you certain his side of it is T?

2) Would you say you have a firm scumread on Made now?

[VOTE: Kami] aubergine

@EnderWiggin Sheep me.

You literally got voted day 1 while saying I was 100% mafia last game begging people to vote me, maybe don't ask anyone to sheep you if you can't read someone at all.
Or maybe you like getting embarrassed

I got voted out by mafia in the worst CFD I have ever seen after misreading you D1 in one game.

That must mean that I suck at reading you and am not allowed to push you ever again despite you having reads that are both awful, unexplained and probably TMI.

[VOTE: Kami] aubergine

@EnderWiggin Sheep me.

You literally got voted day 1 while saying I was 100% mafia last game begging people to vote me, maybe don't ask anyone to sheep you if you can't read someone at all.
Or maybe you like getting embarrassed

I got voted out by mafia in the worst CFD I have ever seen after misreading you D1 in one game.

That must mean that I suck at reading you and am not allowed to push you ever again despite you having reads that are both awful, unexplained and probably TMI.

Naw I think it was your own actions that put you in that position

You can continue being misinformed about what happened in Lasagna Mafia if you'd like. As I recall I was voting actual mafia before Hyena CFDed me and claimed an N0 on Creature to save their skins.

Regardless that has no impact on what's going on this game. You have given me three reads that I strongly disagree with with zero explanation for two of them and a bad explanation for one (trying hard to ignore people pointing out that Transcend has a meta of doing this every game). If your only defense against me pointing out how wolfy this is is "you misread me once >:(" then you are essentially proffering no defense at all to the specific charges I have laid against you this game.

What is there to defend against? You disagree with how I read people in WW that's not my problem. I will always ignore meta I do not know and you are free to think that's scummy.

Why is Made the towniest person in the thread?

Why is falcon scum?

can made/kami be partnered? I'm too lazy to look

I think the way Kami is treating Made is more like her TMI-ing him town than them being partners. Which is part of why I am shifting to Kami over Made.

can made/kami be partnered? I'm too lazy to look

I think the way Kami is treating Made is more like her TMI-ing him town than them being partners. Which is part of why I am shifting to Kami over Made.

Why is everything tmi to everyone? ive seen this phrased used like 50 times already this game

I called it TMI because you had an excessive amount of certainty on someone who, to my mind, has done nothing townie.

If you wish to point out specific posts he has made that is townie or justifies your read on him go ahead. Saying "he's just townie idk" only reinforces my thought that it is TMI.

Confidence =/= TMI.

Confidence without evidence = TMI.

The basic concept of TMI is that the wolves know exactly who is town and who is mafia so they don't have to do things like read posts or examine pushes to find out people's alignments. These are things that townies have to do. If someone has done nothing townie, and you confidently townread them but find yourself unable to explain what exactly they have done that is townie, I am inclined to think that you have gotten your information about them from a source beyond reading their posts and examining their pushes. This is the basis of my accusation against you.

All the wolves are voting made btw omegalul

You think all wolves are piling on the same LHF D1?

Not into the HK push. I don't think he's been flying under the radar that much. He just had a big argument with Kami.

I rescind my Rondo townread. I read his wallpost and all it does is summarize the reads that players have given in the game without adding his own thoughts to it.

Sus post btw, you dip in for this soft defense of HK but you completely twist the events and then leave.
HK was called out for being under the radar way before we argued, so at the time he was getting pushed he 100% was under the radar.

Also how could you ever townread rondo to begin with?

Why would a mafia member pursuing a UTR strat suddenly strike up a huge argument with another player? Unless the narrative is "HK was trying to be UTR as mafia, was called out on it, and then attacked another player to allay suspicions", but I don't see why that's more likely than just "HK had a quiet entrance and then got into an argument like he always does".

I've already given my reasons for townreading Rondo at the time.

Also you still twisted the events to defend him, why would you purposefully twist what happened to fit your narrative of hk town?

I did not twist any events.

Also you still twisted the events to defend him, why would you purposefully twist what happened to fit your narrative of hk town?

I did not twist any events.

You did though, HK was called out for being UTR before the argument, which means the push was valid.

Syn said: HK is UTR.
HK engages in an argument with you.
I say: HK is not UTR, he just engaged in an argument with you. I don't see a reason to exe HK.

How is that twisting events? HK is no longer hiding UTR, he's out and arguing with people.

Also you still twisted the events to defend him, why would you purposefully twist what happened to fit your narrative of hk town?

I did not twist any events.

You did though, HK was called out for being UTR before the argument, which means the push was valid.

Syn said: HK is UTR.
HK engages in an argument with you.
I say: HK is not UTR, he just engaged in an argument with you. I don't see a reason to exe HK.

How is that twisting events? HK is no longer hiding UTR, he's out and arguing with people.

Because youre saying you didn't like the push, but the push happened before why youre saying the push is bad.
So yeah you twisted events to defend hk?

He was UTR until called out, the push is valid.

I said I'm not feeling the HK wagon, not that Syn was scum for making the HK push.

I don't care whether the push was "valid" at the time, the evidence available to me right now suggests zero good reason to vote HK.

i'd be fine if made/hollow competed

don't rly think anyone would have a problem with that

epi is... unique to say the least, i wouldn't vote him out today

I would prefer Made/Kami

I am going back to the "Kami TMI'd Made town" theory.

[VOTE: Kami] aubergine

Kami has repeatedly tried to tie her alignment to Made's (eg. #1095, "Me and Made are the most obvious townies in the thread"). There is no reason to believe Made is town at that point and she has proffered no reasoning behind "his posts are townie idk". She has also repeatedly attacked anyone accusing her of blatant TMI and attempted to discredit them, including an attempt to push Transcend who is obvious town. I believe she was banking on Made flipping town (especially with buddies she can call on to pile on votes on him) and attempted to use him as a cheap way to give herself credit.

i mean i was the one who pointed out her push was hedgy first but yeah it really was

I'd chop Epi before I'd chop finger just based on my diving last night. His D1 was hot shit.

I said as much re: the hedginess in #571 and #573.

I find it hard to scumread HK because he is hard Alison-siding. If he is trying to pocket me as a wolf he is essentially giving me a doublevote to do so. His thoughts aligned with mine on both Made and Kami and I think Kami is scum so it is a good look that he moved off Made to park on Kami after she threw a tantrum. If HK is scum he is either townsiding in which case we should force him to continue voting his teammates or I am barking up the wrong tree, which I don't think I am.

he was a doublevote for u for maybe like the first bit of the game but then his vote flip flopped every which way throughout the rest of the day

riddle me this, in a world that kami is mod confirmed town, what alignment do u think HK is?

If Kami is mod confirmed town HK is outed wolf. In that world I would be completely off base D1 and HK is doing the thing nanook likes to do where he hard sheeps people with bad reads and lets them self destruct.

Flipping the question around on you. If Kami is mod confirmed scum, what alignment is HK?

Flipping the question around on you. If Kami is mod confirmed scum, what alignment is HK?

probs town given that some of their exchanges look pretty genuine

I agree. I think Kami is likely scum. Therefore I find it hard to get behind a HK wagon while Kami is still alive.

is there any other meat to your case besides "bad reads" and possible tmi on made?

Throwing an anti-town temper tantrum with a heavy dose of AtE. Constantly tries to discredit and undermine me.

I skimmed it. I think your point about her read of you and Seanzie being TvT (and dare I say, TMI) is fine. I said as much when she first made that read. I agree with your suspicions, and I have Kami and splints as top suspects. I think I suspect Kami slightly more still, but I would love if the two of them were competing wagons.

assuming a world where sean/epi are both town

which is worse, tmi on one dude or tmi on two dudes

I think calling a squabble between two players TvT is less blatant than calling someone who did nothing townie "the towniest player in the game". This is sort of splitting hairs though. I am happy to exe splints as well.

@Transcend A point has been made that Kami's general stubbornness, tantrum-throwing etc. is just indicative of her personality more than her alignment. How does this impact your read that her conviction/stubbornness makes her townie?

@Kami Why are you spending all your time casing me and Transcend and voting HK though?

She hasn't made a case other than "TMI LOL"

I listed like five reasons why I suspected you.

If we entertain a world where Kami is town it's probably HK which means it's probably also Epi for hard tunnelling splints to divert early pressure from HK.

But I am not yet convinced that is the most likely world.

finger is what the mafia will push today as a counter to HK

Hk is outed hk dies in nearly every universe

Let ppl discuss w the time we're given

Then why is alisonn voting finger

Because I decided to move my vote off you and my next top suspect was fingersplints.

anyone who mindmelds that amount with me cant be mafia

This is nonsense and you know it.

30ish posts of Transcend/Kami/Alison where Alison tries really hard to push Kami and Transcend defends Kami.

Honestly doesn't read like Theatre.

I kinda wanna say Transcend/Kami lock v as well. Which makes Kami/Transcend/Fingers/Falcon/Esooa a winning towncore even without me.

Can you talk about Fingers and Falcon? I don't think they are nearly as widely townread as the others in that group.

[EnderWiggin]

I'm tired and going to bed. Here's where I'm at.

Strong Town: Falcon45ca, Lime Coke, Transcend, EnderWiggin
Town Lean: Esooa, Hollowkatt, Seanzie
Null: Epignosis, Notanaxehole
Upper POE: Syn, Fingersplints
Lower POE: Kami, Made, Rondo

Good night.

[EnderWiggin]

30ish posts of Transcend/Kami/Alison where Alison tries really hard to push Kami and Transcend defends Kami.

Honestly doesn't read like Theatre.

I kinda wanna say Transcend/Kami lock v as well. Which makes Kami/Transcend/Fingers/Falcon/Esooa a winning towncore even without me.

Can you talk about Fingers and Falcon? I don't think they are nearly as widely townread as the others in that group.

Falcon has long interaction with NAA on D2. Doesn't feel forced.

Fingers is much weaker but was one of the first to point out NAA silent voting and said she felt weird about it which doesn't feel very w/w.

[Seanzie]

30ish posts of Transcend/Kami/Alison where Alison tries really hard to push Kami and Transcend defends Kami.

Honestly doesn't read like Theatre.

I kinda wanna say Transcend/Kami lock v as well. Which makes Kami/Transcend/Fingers/Falcon/Esooa a winning towncore even without me.

Can you talk about Fingers and Falcon? I don't think they are nearly as widely townread as the others in that group.

Falcon has long interaction with NAA on D2. Doesn't feel forced.

Fingers is much weaker but was one of the first to point out NAA silent voting and said she felt weird about it which doesn't feel very w/w.

Do you have any non-associative reads on these slots?

Associations and spew can be good tools, but they are easily manipulated and do not tell a whole picture.

[EnderWiggin]

30ish posts of Transcend/Kami/Alison where Alison tries really hard to push Kami and Transcend defends Kami.

Honestly doesn't read like Theatre.

I kinda wanna say Transcend/Kami lock v as well. Which makes Kami/Transcend/Fingers/Falcon/Esooa a winning towncore even without me.

Can you talk about Fingers and Falcon? I don't think they are nearly as widely townread as the others in that group.

Falcon has long interaction with NAA on D2. Doesn't feel forced.

Fingers is much weaker but was one of the first to point out NAA silent voting and said she felt weird about it which doesn't feel very w/w.

Do you have any non-associative reads on these slots?

Associations and spew can be good tools, but they are easily manipulated and do not tell a whole picture.

Also Fingers has a bunch of non-associative reads.

I'm at work rn. Don't have my mindmaps until I get home in like, 8 hours.

[Esooa]

atm I'm guessing Seanzie/syn wolf

[EnderWiggin]

I'm glad Esooa is on the same page as me lmao.

[Kami]

literally nothing falcon says has made sense the entire game tbh

Remember when he voted Maf? What a fool

Wow a vote that didn't matter what so ever?
I also remember you pushing made hard day 1

[falcon45ca]

literally nothing falcon says has made sense the entire game tbh

Remember when he voted Maf? What a fool

Wow a vote that didn't matter what so ever?
I also remember you pushing made hard day 1

I remember that too!

[Kami]

whats the motivation behind falcon saying he doesnt think alison is sure scum

[Kami]

atm I'm guessing Seanzie/syn wolf

why syn mafia

[Esooa]

atm I'm guessing Seanzie/syn wolf

why syn mafia

because everyone else is town

Also when Syn was being towny day 1 Alison had him lower in her list for weird/no reasons

[Kami]

atm I'm guessing Seanzie/syn wolf

why syn mafia

because everyone else is town

Also when Syn was being towny day 1 Alison had him lower in her list for weird/no reasons

interesting

[Esooa]

it's probably always Seanzie from what I read, if not then it's epi.. I guess I'll see about that. After that it's one in ender/falcon/syn, imo, and Falcon is a lot more towny though wow is he trying to make me doubt this, Ender I think is reasonably towny

[Kami]

Epi was ppretty adamant to vote Alison over me yesterday, but I guess from mafia perspestive alison would always die in the end after her claim was proven wrong

[EnderWiggin]

Epi/Alison interactions aren't exactly steller tbh. May need to reread them myself.

[Seanzie]

it's probably always Seanzie from what I read, if not then it's epi.. I guess I'll see about that. After that it's one in ender/falcon/syn, imo, and Falcon is a lot more towny though wow is he trying to make me doubt this, Ender I think is reasonably towny

I have a hard time thinking that anyone could scumread me after my EoD yesterday.

[Esooa]

it's probably always Seanzie from what I read, if not then it's epi.. I guess I'll see about that. After that it's one in ender/falcon/syn, imo, and Falcon is a lot more towny though wow is he trying to make me doubt this, Ender I think is reasonably towny

I have a hard time thinking that anyone could scumread me after my EoD yesterday.

I just read it and thought it was wolfy so... thanks for the hint I guess?

[Seanzie]

it's probably always Seanzie from what I read, if not then it's epi.. I guess I'll see about that. After that it's one in ender/falcon/syn, imo, and Falcon is a lot more towny though wow is he trying to make me doubt this, Ender I think is reasonably towny

I have a hard time thinking that anyone could scumread me after my EoD yesterday.

I just read it and thought it was wolfy so... thanks for the hint I guess?

How?

[Seanzie]

Like, I'd love to say that wolf!me is brave enough to act the way I did, but I was out of my wolf range by far.

[Esooa]

what did u do that you couldn't? you barely poked towards alison at all and you voted like 3 different not-alison people

[Esooa]

most of your EoD was extremely reactive, barely really making reads at all. You voted Kami, Rondo, Alison, didn't actually push towards alison, said you could go finger.

[Seanzie]

most of your EoD was extremely reactive, barely really making reads at all. You voted Kami, Rondo, Alison, didn't actually push towards alison, said you could go finger.

I was vote-hopping the whole time, putting tension into the thread via votes, causing ties and shifting wagons. I was actually ultimately hoping to catch scum trying to quick hammer with a quick vote switch because of how much tension there was leading up to EoD. It is the sort of thing that is surface-level wolfyish, making it extremely hard to do as a wolf, but as town it is easy because you don't care how you're percieved.

[Kami]

So you're saying we should town read you because you made a perfomance of vote switching?

[Esooa]

well I'll read Epi's ISO but I'm pretty sure there's one between you two

[Kami]

if you're self aware of wolfy behavior and ur excuse is "i wouldnt be brave enough to do it as a wolf actually" lmao it's obviously a performance

[EnderWiggin]

Anything you can point at and say "This is obviously town" I will strictly not read as town because you are obviously very aware of how town you think it should look.

Which makes it potential performance art.

[Seanzie]

So you're saying we should town read you because you made a perfomance of vote switching?

It wasn't performative, but yes, you should townread me. As I said, it was way outside my wolf range. I would have played conservatively, not drawn huge amounts of attention to myself in order to push tension into the thread.

[EnderWiggin]

Lol. Kami and I posted the same rebuff.

[Seanzie]

Anything you can point at and say "This is obviously town" I will strictly not read as town because you are obviously very aware of how town you think it should look.

Which makes it potential performance art.

Flame fanner

[Seanzie]

if you're self aware of wolfy behavior and ur excuse is "i wouldnt be brave enough to do it as a wolf actually" lmao it's obviously a performance

No, it isn't, I just know myself. I know that as a wolf I would not have been able to act like I did. It wasn't a performance to get townread, it was just something that I did with townie motives that I wouldn't be able to replicate as a wolf.

[EnderWiggin]

Let's say the wine is indeed in front of you, Seanzie, what's your current gamestate read?

[Kami]

So you're saying we should town read you because you made a perfomance of vote switching?

It wasn't performative, but yes, you should townread me. As I said, it was way outside my wolf range. I would have played conservatively, not drawn huge amounts of attention to myself in order to push tension into the thread.

Okay so why did you do it?
you even self voted like 4 times.

Why what was your motivation other than to have this excuse?

[EnderWiggin]

So you're saying we should town read you because you made a perfomance of vote switching?

It wasn't performative, but yes, you should townread me. As I said, it was way outside my wolf range. I would have played conservatively, not drawn huge amounts of attention to myself in order to push tension into the thread.

Okay so why did you do it?
you even self voted like 4 times.

Why what was your motivation other than to have this excuse?

It was to make the EOD a camping trip.

[Kami]

if you're self aware of wolfy behavior and ur excuse is "i wouldnt be brave enough to do it as a wolf actually" lmao it's obviously a performance

No, it isn't, I just know myself. I know that as a wolf I would not have been able to act like I did. It wasn't a performance to get townread, it was just something that I did with townie motives that I wouldn't be able to replicate as a wolf.

But the point of WW is also a game of manipulation when your wolf so meta goes out the window of how you THINK you would act if you are actually trying to win the game, wouldnt you purposefully do things you say you couldnt "replicate"?

[Kami]

Also only a wolf would be super concerned about how their actions would look when it comes to their alignment so you clearly have how people perceive you on your mind or you wouldnt of made that post

[Seanzie]

Let's say the wine is indeed in front of you, Seanzie, what's your current gamestate read?

There is no wifom, there is just a Seanzie outside his wolf range.

I think EoD yesterday points to Kami, but there is better reason to townread Kami than scumread them, and they did have good reason to go onto Rondo.

I think the game can be solved if we look at the Rondo wagon. I think the only question that I'm not sure about is if there is one wolf there or two (excluding Alison).

Doggo is probably fine, Syn is maybe fine. I haven't really seen anything from Fingers to make me feel like they're fine. If there are two on Rondo, it is probably Syn and Fingers. However, you, Falcon or Epi could easily be a second IMO.

Epi had strong not w/w stuff with Alison, but they are both very strong players, so I wouldn't clear the pair over that. Falcon has been all sorts of weird and idk how to read into that, but I remember I had bad vibes from them early D1 as well, and sometimes those reads are best. Esooa is probably fine, I don't have much feeling there, but most people seem to townread them, so I'll sheep the thread.

[Seanzie]

So you're saying we should town read you because you made a perfomance of vote switching?

It wasn't performative, but yes, you should townread me. As I said, it was way outside my wolf range. I would have played conservatively, not drawn huge amounts of attention to myself in order to push tension into the thread.

Okay so why did you do it?
you even self voted like 4 times.

Why what was your motivation other than to have this excuse?

As I said, I was trying to push wagons around and add tension to the thread to see what happens. By setting up ties near EoD, people are forced to react, and in those high-tension situations, their actions are almost always AI. I was trying to see who was trying to protect whom and also possibly catch a scumteam trying to quick hammer to end the day with a quick unvote.

I self-voted myself once, possibly twice, and it was always to either bring things to a tie, or to dangle myself as bait close to the scum quickhammer threshold.

[EnderWiggin]

@Esooa

I'm done with today. Let me know when you want my vote to land on Alison. Assuming I'm awake.

[EnderWiggin]

Also no one is biting on my joke, I'm sad.

[Kami]

So you're saying we should town read you because you made a perfomance of vote switching?

It wasn't performative, but yes, you should townread me. As I said, it was way outside my wolf range. I would have played conservatively, not drawn huge amounts of attention to myself in order to push tension into the thread.

Okay so why did you do it?
you even self voted like 4 times.

Why what was your motivation other than to have this excuse?

As I said, I was trying to push wagons around and add tension to the thread to see what happens. By setting up ties near EoD, people are forced to react, and in those high-tension situations, their actions are almost always AI. I was trying to see who was trying to protect whom and also possibly catch a scumteam trying to quick hammer to end the day with a quick unvote.

I self-voted myself once, possibly twice, and it was always to either bring things to a tie, or to dangle myself as bait close to the scum quickhammer threshold.

okay so what were your take away?

[Esooa]

@Esooa

I'm done with today. Let me know when you want my vote to land on Alison. Assuming I'm awake.

ok