Buckets: War of the GOATs [END]

[alexa]

Is agreeing with Esooa's reads town indicative of you?

Esooa agreeing with my reads is town indicative of her. She scumsides D1 as wolf.

that's not accurate meta imo

[Lime Coke]

Is agreeing with Esooa's reads town indicative of you?

Esooa agreeing with my reads is town indicative of her. She scumsides D1 as wolf.

Makes sense and I think I've seen it before. Good read.

[Alison]

Esooa, what's your read on Transcend?

Why do you ask?

Because I think I remember you telling me that you found him very quickly as both alignments on some EM games some time and I got the impression that he's polarised or something.

It's also why I asked about him having an activity tell earlier on.

can we kill wiml now

[VOTE: wiml] aubergine

Transcend/MacDougall outed honestly. Like I was already suspicious of that combination before this and this is so skeevy.

[Alison]

Is agreeing with Esooa's reads town indicative of you?

Esooa agreeing with my reads is town indicative of her. She scumsides D1 as wolf.

that's not accurate meta imo

Is agreeing with Esooa's reads town indicative of you?

Esooa agreeing with my reads is town indicative of her. She scumsides D1 as wolf.

Makes sense and I think I've seen it before. Good read.

The duality of man

[Wiml]

Transcend's reads are really surface level and shallow and it feels like he's putting no effort in to try to dusguise that.

That's the best way I can describe what I'm conflicted on.

[Lime Coke]

Is agreeing with Esooa's reads town indicative of you?

Esooa agreeing with my reads is town indicative of her. She scumsides D1 as wolf.

that's not accurate meta imo

Is agreeing with Esooa's reads town indicative of you?

Esooa agreeing with my reads is town indicative of her. She scumsides D1 as wolf.

Makes sense and I think I've seen it before. Good read.

@alexa

[EnderWiggin]

i am actually a little ??? on ender's early approach to me being "seems good but inside her scumrange" considering he's never seen me as scum

The trick is to pay attention to how people react to it.

Also too many people assume I don't read games I'm not in.

[Lime Coke]

Always know, that wherever you are, Ender will be there.

[Alison]

Mac is honestly playing incredibly scummy. His reads are pure nonsense and he's just producing as many of them as possible until people get off his back. He is not solving the game or approaching it from a townie point of view and he's not fishing for hard-to-replicate tells the way he does as town. It's actually ridiculous.

[Wiml]

Transcend's reads are really surface level and shallow and it feels like he's putting no effort in to try to dusguise that.

That's the best way I can describe what I'm conflicted on.

Interested what alexa thinks of this tbh.

I'll respond tomorrow.

[Alison]

The only townie thing he's done is the circle graph thing which seems kind of odd to fake as scum. But eh. He could think to fake it if he really wanted to. Maybe even specifically to pocket me.

[Lime Coke]

Transcend's reads are really surface level and shallow and it feels like he's putting no effort in to try to dusguise that.

That's the best way I can describe what I'm conflicted on.

Interested what alexa thinks of this tbh.

I'll respond tomorrow.

Can you explain to me your read on Alison?

I'll respond tomorrow.

[Esooa]

The only townie thing he's done is the circle graph thing which seems kind of odd to fake as scum. But eh. He could think to fake it if he really wanted to. Maybe even specifically to pocket me.

did you like my response to it

[alexa]

Transcend's reads are really surface level and shallow and it feels like he's putting no effort in to try to dusguise that.

That's the best way I can describe what I'm conflicted on.

Interested what alexa thinks of this tbh.

I'll respond tomorrow.

i mean i agree with you a lot and i think it's wolfy

[Alison]

slowly catching up -

Will I ever escape people randomly scum reading me for no reason on D1?

Find out next time on Catch Them Votes.

I don't think I've vibed with your reads, I generally townread you early when you're town and didn't do so here, and everyone else in the thread seems townie.

I would put stake in this since ender is one of the few people I’ve never played with. That being said I’m not a huge fan of “I usually townread you early and didn’t” reads because people misuse them on me all the time. What is it that you usually townread Ender for that you feel he hasn’t exhibited here?

Ender is a WIM machine when he is town. He is not one here. He was not one when I wolfed with him. Do the math.

[Alison]

The only townie thing he's done is the circle graph thing which seems kind of odd to fake as scum. But eh. He could think to fake it if he really wanted to. Maybe even specifically to pocket me.

did you like my response to it

I don't think it was townie but it was mildly amusing.

[alexa]

i feel like the way transcend/Mac mocked Alison's initial W/W read felt non-partnered though so i don't fully see the W/W world alison is calling

[Esooa]

The only townie thing he's done is the circle graph thing which seems kind of odd to fake as scum. But eh. He could think to fake it if he really wanted to. Maybe even specifically to pocket me.

did you like my response to it

I don't think it was townie but it was mildly amusing.

well that's all I was interested in

[EnderWiggin]

it may have been ender who said it

[Alison]

she is still probably in her wolf range mind you ive heard from multiple people that she shouldn't be townread until she actually buries wolves but after wolfing with her i feel like she's not as hard to read as people say.

<ego post>

Everyone who has said that I am not actually that hard to read has later ended up burned very badly for it.

</ego post>

[EnderWiggin]

I probably said something like that

[EnderWiggin]

This is why I usually don't post on phones

[Alison]

Fwiw I do think someone in nanooks situation could have seen my slot as an easy push as scum and that’s why his vote is on me. I’m a dude with no avatar, no posts on this account, someone he probably (?) hasn’t heard of and the only people that knew me here were voting me at the time of his vote. It feels like an easy/low-risk play on his part. Especially since his justification was that “he supports alexa”. Which is fine and all, but the way he tacked his vote on felt like he did it without evaluating whether or not my read on alexa was coming from a genuine place to begin with.

Not the way nanook thinks as wolf.

[Alison]

People always have paranoia about town reading players who are good wolves

I personally say fuck it and hard town read them for dumb tells

I agree you should not flinch away from townreading players who are good wolves when they do townie things. Not sure if dumb tells count as that, but hey, whatever floats your boat.

[Lime Coke]

People always have paranoia about town reading players who are good wolves

I personally say fuck it and hard town read them for dumb tells

I agree you should not flinch away from townreading players who are good wolves when they do townie things. Not sure if dumb tells count as that, but hey, whatever floats your boat.

Should I still be scared of townreading you?

[EnderWiggin]

Let's pretend illario is an IC. Who am I misclearing here?

Remind me who you're clearing

For the sake of discussion let's just say that I'm lock clearing everyone who isn't in my active PoE.

So alexa, Esooa, LC, Alison, TSP.

Where are the wolves in that list?

Alison or lime

Maybe tsp, dependent on ilario's flip

Tbf I wouldn't be incredibly shocked if there was a wolf in those three names, particularly because I no longer have a reason to TR Alison as strongly and her attempt at a push on me felt like a stretch.

TSP if illario is town? Do you have any familiarity with him and his meta?

Also seriously please explain why you think blade is town here lol. I'm usually not bad at reading him but I'm not seeing it here tbh.

With tsp? Yes, lots. It rarely helps.

I'm good at reading blade idk what to tell you. He has townie drive, is that something that'll convince you?

Thanks. Most importantly: does TSP ever slank like this as a wolf in his normal wolf games? If no, do you think he'd be capable of taking a step back this game if he had a sufficiently strong partner? I talked about my thoughts on that earlier but I'm interested in hearing what you think with actual experience playing with him lol.

As for blade, not really tbh. Do you have any thoughts on him claiming that I haven't towntold yet but then sort of rolling that back and saying that I hadn't done anything town indicative yet instead? (After I called him out because I knew he had no real town tells on me and was pushing that in bad faith).

This is putting intent into my words that isn't there.

[Alison]

honestly I don't think Alison would fake the dumb tell as wolf

she probably would but i see her response more as her not wanting to get cheap towncred for it than her being a wolf faking it so it's still likely >rand v

I don't recall literally ever seeing her dumb tell before as either alignmen

She probably did but I dunno

Maybe I'm being stupid but Alison typically is pretty aware of what she's doing

Because of that I don't think she would actually fake a dumb tell as a wolf very often, it's just not necessary

However due to, idk, circumstances, I think it's completely understandable why she did as town this game

I have faked dumb tells as wolf before. Not that often but sometimes when I feel I can throw it in for free.

I actually don't know what circumstances you are referring to. Unless you mean how I have had a string of low quality games and am slightly burned out from them and therefore am more likely not to pay attention to the number of wolves in the game.

[EnderWiggin]

Towntell was clarified to town indicative because Wiml was taking me wrong

[Alison]

its probably worth mentioning that Alison and I, and Esooa and I are playing a metagame in every game when one of us are wolfing. Like I care less about winning than I do catching or fooling them and I am sure the feeling as mutual to some degree.

I am not that egoistical. I play to my win condition.

[Esooa]

Unless you mean how I have had a string of low quality games and am slightly burned out from them and therefore am more likely not to pay attention to the number of wolves in the game.

well when you say it like this it sounds dumb

I just personally find that if I care less about a game I'm more likely to like, not check the OP to make sure I know the setup and stuff like that

and etc

[EnderWiggin]

Ender just magically knows people's meta without actually being in games with them. I wish I had that ability.

I'm not always right and often wrong. But damn I do it with gusto

[Alison]

TSP AND ALEXA ARE TOWAN
ESOOA IS TOWAN
ALISON IS TOWAN

WE GETTING CLOSE FAM

TSP shouldn't be on this list.

[Esooa]

@Alison my biggest thing with Mac recently is that I feel because he's been randing wolf a lot recently he's been trying to be more gimmicky as a wolf so it's harder to associate back-to-back wolf games

Kinda felt the same thing with his reads/graph thing earlier

What do you think?

[Alison]

poe at present is like those two plus transcend plus fucking nanook the don i can't read for poopoopeepee

plus ender

forgot your partner huh

I honestly think he intentionally threw Ender in just to make you say that. It's fake spew.

[Alison]

@Alison my biggest thing with Mac recently is that I feel because he's been randing wolf a lot recently he's been trying to be more gimmicky as a wolf so it's harder to associate back-to-back wolf games

Kinda felt the same thing with his reads/graph thing earlier

What do you think?

It's possible. He knows the circle graph shit is the sort of twisty mentality I like to townread as well.

[alexa]

i think alison is difficult to read outside of her catching wolves because she has a persona she puts on in games regardless of alignment (which i only know from how different she was in wolf chat/how much more stream-of-conscious she was) when we wolfed together
which makes her very difficult to lock either way early game because we are stylistically very different

[Alison]

@Alison what's your read on Transcend?

Wolf independently

Strong wolf equity with my other top wolf read (Mac)

[EnderWiggin]

Always know, that wherever you are, Ender will be there.

Oh god. LC stop making me sound like a stalker

[EnderWiggin]

Mac is honestly playing incredibly scummy. His reads are pure nonsense and he's just producing as many of them as possible until people get off his back. He is not solving the game or approaching it from a townie point of view and he's not fishing for hard-to-replicate tells the way he does as town. It's actually ridiculous.

Are we allowed to vote him yet?

[Lime Coke]

Always know, that wherever you are, Ender will be there.

Oh god. LC stop making me sound like a stalker

The way you're saying everything is fucking hilarious to me.

[Alison]

i think alison is difficult to read outside of her catching wolves because she has a persona she puts on in games regardless of alignment (which i only know from how different she was in wolf chat/how much more stream-of-conscious she was) when we wolfed together
which makes her very difficult to lock either way early game because we are stylistically very different

Both are personas. One is a persona optimized for obtaining and pushing correct reads. The other is a persona optimized for brainstorming and communication. You will sometimes see me bring my "wolf chat" persona into the thread and become much more casual and stream of consciousness when I am bouncing ideas off people and trying to do a deep solve with a townread. (See: Fargo, PercyKate, Radiohead).

My authentic self is what I'm like on Discord.

[EnderWiggin]

slowly catching up -

Will I ever escape people randomly scum reading me for no reason on D1?

Find out next time on Catch Them Votes.

I don't think I've vibed with your reads, I generally townread you early when you're town and didn't do so here, and everyone else in the thread seems townie.

I would put stake in this since ender is one of the few people I’ve never played with. That being said I’m not a huge fan of “I usually townread you early and didn’t” reads because people misuse them on me all the time. What is it that you usually townread Ender for that you feel he hasn’t exhibited here?

Ender is a WIM machine when he is town. He is not one here. He was not one when I wolfed with him. Do the math.

Alison. Sometimes I just don't care enough to wim d1. Lol

[Alison]

Mac is honestly playing incredibly scummy. His reads are pure nonsense and he's just producing as many of them as possible until people get off his back. He is not solving the game or approaching it from a townie point of view and he's not fishing for hard-to-replicate tells the way he does as town. It's actually ridiculous.

Are we allowed to vote him yet?

I have argued before that it is best to give certain players a day pass because it is simply too disastrous for the game if they are town. You can keep them in your POE and hunt for your partners while giving them the chance to clear themselves by producing pelts (and of course, if they are wolves and produce pelts, you should encourage them to out all their teammates for you). I would say Mac is one of those players.

[Alison]

slowly catching up -

Will I ever escape people randomly scum reading me for no reason on D1?

Find out next time on Catch Them Votes.

I don't think I've vibed with your reads, I generally townread you early when you're town and didn't do so here, and everyone else in the thread seems townie.

I would put stake in this since ender is one of the few people I’ve never played with. That being said I’m not a huge fan of “I usually townread you early and didn’t” reads because people misuse them on me all the time. What is it that you usually townread Ender for that you feel he hasn’t exhibited here?

Ender is a WIM machine when he is town. He is not one here. He was not one when I wolfed with him. Do the math.

Alison. Sometimes I just don't care enough to wim d1. Lol

Okay.

[Esooa]

Honestly I wouldn't mind a Mac chop this day phase

Not saying I think he's wolfy I mean holistically I think it'd be fine to exe him if he was my top wolf read

[Alison]

i think alison is difficult to read outside of her catching wolves because she has a persona she puts on in games regardless of alignment (which i only know from how different she was in wolf chat/how much more stream-of-conscious she was) when we wolfed together
which makes her very difficult to lock either way early game because we are stylistically very different

Both are personas. One is a persona optimized for obtaining and pushing correct reads. The other is a persona optimized for brainstorming and communication. You will sometimes see me bring my "wolf chat" persona into the thread and become much more casual and stream of consciousness when I am bouncing ideas off people and trying to do a deep solve with a townread. (See: Fargo, PercyKate, Radiohead).

My authentic self is what I'm like on Discord.

To be honest my Discord self is a persona too. My authentic self is just being an incredibly autistic oversexualized trans girl who spends all her time obsessively engaging in hobbies nobody else cares about.

[EnderWiggin]

Mac is honestly playing incredibly scummy. His reads are pure nonsense and he's just producing as many of them as possible until people get off his back. He is not solving the game or approaching it from a townie point of view and he's not fishing for hard-to-replicate tells the way he does as town. It's actually ridiculous.

Are we allowed to vote him yet?

I have argued before that it is best to give certain players a day pass because it is simply too disastrous for the game if they are town. You can keep them in your POE and hunt for your partners while giving them the chance to clear themselves by producing pelts (and of course, if they are wolves and produce pelts, you should encourage them to out all their teammates for you). I would say Mac is one of those players.

Counterpoint, there's a lot of decent players in this game. Makes it a lot harder for town to be cut open.

[Alison]

Honestly I wouldn't mind a Mac chop this day phase

Not saying I think he's wolfy I mean holistically I think it'd be fine to exe him if he was my top wolf read

Well the day pass reasoning doesn't apply if he's really super omega outed or if he's not putting in any effort at all (Fallout 2 etc). Is he doing either of those things in this game?

[alexa]

Mac is honestly playing incredibly scummy. His reads are pure nonsense and he's just producing as many of them as possible until people get off his back. He is not solving the game or approaching it from a townie point of view and he's not fishing for hard-to-replicate tells the way he does as town. It's actually ridiculous.

Are we allowed to vote him yet?

I have argued before that it is best to give certain players a day pass because it is simply too disastrous for the game if they are town. You can keep them in your POE and hunt for your partners while giving them the chance to clear themselves by producing pelts (and of course, if they are wolves and produce pelts, you should encourage them to out all their teammates for you). I would say Mac is one of those players.

maybe it's my own ego but i have always been kind of "mrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr" on this philosophy
mostly because i trust myself to solve the game more than i trust players who are useful if not mischopped

there's been times i've mischopped a player terribly d1 but we still won as town and got a lot of useful info from it

there's never been a time i've been like "oh no if we didn't ML X day one we would've won"

i've only been playing FM for a year though

[Esooa]

@Alison the reason I outed a town read on Mac earlier was because he was making reads on things like.. I don't know the term, but I think he town read Illario for responding to him quickly and etc

I don't recall much depth in Mac's live-interaction reads typically when he's a wolf but that one is pretty good (even one that I've not seen him make as town to my memory) and accurate so I liked it