Baby Mafia (TOWN WIN)

[Syn]

@Miss Carousel has been replaced by @Lime Coke.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

[VOTE: dizzy] aubergine

Sorry diz, the master compels me

Thoughts on Ender's TR of you?

I've seen it

It exists

[Dyslexicon]

Funny cause Dizzy comes into thread and dips with their vote STILL on their townread.

If they were really actually considered about my vote on them they would you know like read my post and take off their vote.

I'm not concerned about your vote on me. I'm not concerned about you randomly deciding you should scum read me and how that all goes down in your head.

I haven't decided who I want to vote for yet.
I'm undecided how much I'm suspecting Alison right now, and I'm honestly a bit eager and nervous to see her reaction to me lol.
I don't have many other suspects, no. I'm not a person who gets scum reads easily.

I haven't dipped. My dad called. Leave me alone.

[Dyslexicon]

Omg, Lime! \o/

[Dyslexicon]

Wait, didn't Alison vote off of Lucky?

[Dyslexicon]

I actually don't know who to vote at all. Normally, I wouldn't have a problem just casting a vote where ever regardless, but I don't feel like it now. Maybe because the game has had enough antagonistic behavior anyway, and I don't want to "start something" when I'm pretty unclear on my reads.

[DrWilgy]

Do tell me Luckbox
Why the non-committal voice?
Too soft stepped for town.

[VOTE: falcon] aubergine

probably maybe

wisp ignoring everything and focusing on the software is mildly interesting

I'm a baby!




Green baby that is, check my inbox if you don't believe me

Villagers are red in Syn games.

Falcon outted.

Baby is spelt green, and Evil Baby is spelt red.



I'd say you're the one who's outted



[VOTE: Luck] aubergine

My role was in purple.

@Dyslexicon Yeah, that's a claim. I've got green, Evil baby's in red, so what's this to you then?

It can be a claim. Claims are pretty cheap though.

Interesting I remember town! Alison being more wordy with her posts

Yeah there is no reason to clear Alison at this juncture.

I wasn't clearing her, if anything I was point to the fact this is kind of weird. But the last time I played with her was a while back, and it's kind of early anyways

I was referring to Dizzy's clear of her-- and yeah-- I don't think she's a wolf or anything-- just no reason to clear her.

@Luckbox Inc
Why exactly did u decide to quote my post, when talking about an Alison read
only to tell me afterwards you were refering to dizzy's read
I know I said, "my bad", but honestly I don't even know why, it wasn't even my bad

I was agreeing with you, I thought...

ok im confused, anyways
Why are you voting Dr Wilgy

Wilgy seems wolfy. I can talk about it tomorrow and possibly change my mind.

This instance above, specifically. Why feel the need to point out that your mind can change? Assuming you are town that is implied and assuming you are scum that isn't possible, so the only real purpose would be to forcibly imply that you are town.

I will probably be playing a straight POE game here because there are so many obvious townies.

Wilgy, Dizzy, Ender, falcon, Gavial all town.

Gira outed.

Mizery and Wisp kinda wolfy.

Luckbox meh. I haven't been impressed with his posting so far but it's not as wolfy as the others. Would prefer if he could give an opinion besides "stop clearing Alison >:(", especially when he usually has no trouble getting there on me as town.

Carousel/Nanook/Tess haven't checked in in any meaningful capacity.

This is really your most substantive post all game, but it's your thoughts on Gira and your assuredness that they are outted that has confused me, as Gira seemed fine to me and their thoughts on Falcon seemed fine even if wrong (disclaimer being that I know nothing about Gira).

Wilgy can definitely be a wolf and Wisp can be a villager. Also, you know Dizzy is a really good wolf and the quickness that you two have cleared each other is a bit concerning. I'll have to work on figuring out what i really think in the morning though when I'm a fresh and after a reread. Also hopefully Tess can tell me what to think.

The reason why Gira is outed is very simple. They don't believe in anything they say and are flatly and disinterestedly doing what they perceive a townie "should" be doing.

I'm willing to entertain this idea fwiw, but definitely not close to being there yet.

Also I'm not giving Nanook a town lean, idk what ender is talking about, but Nanook hasn't done anything. Except try to be funny so far

Having just wolfed with Nanook, I'd give him a town-lean except that it's super exploitable and not worth much. But basically he's not trying as hard as he did in our wolfgame together.

I'm sure he can still be a wolf here pretty easily tough.

Lacking commitment,
Forcing a town narritive.
A too cautious wolf.

Also why do this,
Where you dissuade discussion?
This seems never town

[VOTE: Luckbox] aubergine

If Dizzy drops their TR on Luckbox, I’ll actually full on push Dizzy.
Especially after Alison does this.

Well you shouldn't tell me him that if that's what your thinking is....fwiw. Better to keep that sort of stuff a secret.

[DrWilgy]

wisp ignoring everything and focusing on the software is mildly interesting

Obviously mafia who can't partake in the enthralling discussion of color theory.

I mean what is their to focus on? The ramblings of RVS? Lol

[VOTE: Wisp] aubergine

Towncore: Dizzy, Lucky, Falcon

I don’t like this post.
If Dizzy’s scum though they aren’t aligned with Lucky and probably aren’t aligned with Wisp.

Strong, but I'm unsure if I like the take. Dizzy may be fooling me.

What of Dizzy's Wisp vote got you?

Don’t see Dizzy doing that to Wisp as buddies.
If you request I can elaborate more later but I need to get my ass back to work!

Thank you. Later please.

[DrWilgy]

Let me give you a helping hand.

You maintain that there is nothing wolfy about Gira and nothing townie about Wilgy. That means my solve is ass-backwards. Assume I am town. Who do you think is trying to egg me on into a bad solve or stand by while I tunnel a townie?

[Alison]

@Alison
why do u think I have TMI on Gira's slot?

I don't. I'm playing around the possibility.

Uh. You don't? But you think Wisp is scum with a high degree of certainty?

I think Wisp is likely scum in either world. It was unclear to me at the time whether they were TMI-ing Gira, or protecting a buddy.

[Lime Coke]

I am Sub Zero...

[DrWilgy]

Luck is town, I do declare,
Unless he's playing odd for me,
He is acting au contraire,
Unless w/w with Wilgy

What of his meta?
Can you describe this to me?
Refrigerator.

[Alison]

It's actually fucking atrocious that I show that Luckbox has no logical reason to be surprised by the Dizzy read on me and his response is "wolfy post really" rather than actually defending his point. There is zero reason for him to ever do that if he is town and I have enough respect for his town play that I'm not going to let that slide.

Gira is definitely a wolf, I'm just not sure whether his role card says it.

Alison. You're being quite bullheaded here.
I don't at all find it strange that Lucky reacts to my early clearing of you.
I don't really know why he has focused on it so much.
But I think it's a reasonable thing to question or take note of.
I do agree that our interaction in our previous game where we tunnelled each other as t/s shouldn't have much bearing on this game though.

No the atrocious thing was that I pressed him hard about the logic behind his thought process and he deflected. It is still atrocious and the only reason I am not pushing him is because I don't think he would act this way because of his meta.

[Lime Coke]

I'm going to backread in a bit I'll try to get my reads.

[Gira]

@Miss Carousel has been replaced by @Lime Coke.

oh no


i mean it'll at least be someone easy to read but oh no

[Alison]

The only reason that dissonance exists is because you and ender are playing in a way that makes this game unfun for me to interact with, so my posts are being less about solving and more about being oetty

I think it's quite likely you are town, and I'm interested to hear your view on the game as a whole.
Alison can have quite strong opinions, probably as both alignments.
However, right now I'm more interested to hear about your perspectives.
You may be more like me that there are several possible ones at the same time, rather than proclaiming to have any kind of immediate solve?

Why is Wisp likely town?

[Lime Coke]

@Miss Carousel has been replaced by @Lime Coke.

oh no


i mean it'll at least be someone easy to read but oh no

That's right, time for some easy townreads!

[Gira]

It's actually fucking atrocious that I show that Luckbox has no logical reason to be surprised by the Dizzy read on me and his response is "wolfy post really" rather than actually defending his point. There is zero reason for him to ever do that if he is town and I have enough respect for his town play that I'm not going to let that slide.

Gira is definitely a wolf, I'm just not sure whether his role card says it.

Alison. You're being quite bullheaded here.
I don't at all find it strange that Lucky reacts to my early clearing of you.
I don't really know why he has focused on it so much.
But I think it's a reasonable thing to question or take note of.
I do agree that our interaction in our previous game where we tunnelled each other as t/s shouldn't have much bearing on this game though.

No the atrocious thing was that I pressed him hard about the logic behind his thought process and he deflected. It is still atrocious and the only reason I am not pushing him is because I don't think he would act this way because of his meta.

what meta lol

[DrWilgy]

I am Sub Zero...

Whattup coke?

[DrWilgy]

Time for team theory.
Is this team here possible?
Discuss this with me.

Gira, Wisp, Luckbox?
Is this the full baddie team?
Wouldn't that be nice?

If I'm incorrect,
Which one am I wrong about?
Name a replacement.

[Alison]

I am stopping here because this is getting to the point where it is adversely affecting thread health.

It should be clear that Gira is not interested in advancing a town agenda. They are either wolf or so unable to handle being scumread that they implode and start working for wolves when pushed. Luckbox is probably town actually now that I think of the two testimonies wrt their meta.

[VOTE: Wisp] aubergine

Back to this.

It is effecting thread health. And I think you should be mindful that you can push in a way that is pretty much impossible to deal with as town. You aren't really giving people time either before you give them scum-subtitles and what not.

I don't know what it feels like for Gira, but I had a way easier time pushing against you when I was actually scum and you pushed me last time we played. How come? You're even more aggro and antagonising here. Why, what good does it serve? We get your point.

I don't need people to "deal with" my pushes as town. I push someone because I want to figure out their alignment or because I want to get them killed. I am well aware that I can be a freight train when I push people and that is intended. It helps with rattling them and making them give me AI reactions for the former purpose, or getting them killed with the latter.

I've already gotten two reads that I wouldn't otherwise have gotten to through conflict.

[Luckbox Inc]

Do tell me Luckbox
Why the non-committal voice?
Too soft stepped for town.

[VOTE: falcon] aubergine

probably maybe

wisp ignoring everything and focusing on the software is mildly interesting

I'm a baby!




Green baby that is, check my inbox if you don't believe me

Villagers are red in Syn games.

Falcon outted.

Baby is spelt green, and Evil Baby is spelt red.



I'd say you're the one who's outted



[VOTE: Luck] aubergine

My role was in purple.

@Dyslexicon Yeah, that's a claim. I've got green, Evil baby's in red, so what's this to you then?

It can be a claim. Claims are pretty cheap though.

Interesting I remember town! Alison being more wordy with her posts

Yeah there is no reason to clear Alison at this juncture.

I wasn't clearing her, if anything I was point to the fact this is kind of weird. But the last time I played with her was a while back, and it's kind of early anyways

I was referring to Dizzy's clear of her-- and yeah-- I don't think she's a wolf or anything-- just no reason to clear her.

@Luckbox Inc
Why exactly did u decide to quote my post, when talking about an Alison read
only to tell me afterwards you were refering to dizzy's read
I know I said, "my bad", but honestly I don't even know why, it wasn't even my bad

I was agreeing with you, I thought...

ok im confused, anyways
Why are you voting Dr Wilgy

Wilgy seems wolfy. I can talk about it tomorrow and possibly change my mind.

This instance above, specifically. Why feel the need to point out that your mind can change? Assuming you are town that is implied and assuming you are scum that isn't possible, so the only real purpose would be to forcibly imply that you are town.

I will probably be playing a straight POE game here because there are so many obvious townies.

Wilgy, Dizzy, Ender, falcon, Gavial all town.

Gira outed.

Mizery and Wisp kinda wolfy.

Luckbox meh. I haven't been impressed with his posting so far but it's not as wolfy as the others. Would prefer if he could give an opinion besides "stop clearing Alison >:(", especially when he usually has no trouble getting there on me as town.

Carousel/Nanook/Tess haven't checked in in any meaningful capacity.

This is really your most substantive post all game, but it's your thoughts on Gira and your assuredness that they are outted that has confused me, as Gira seemed fine to me and their thoughts on Falcon seemed fine even if wrong (disclaimer being that I know nothing about Gira).

Wilgy can definitely be a wolf and Wisp can be a villager. Also, you know Dizzy is a really good wolf and the quickness that you two have cleared each other is a bit concerning. I'll have to work on figuring out what i really think in the morning though when I'm a fresh and after a reread. Also hopefully Tess can tell me what to think.

The reason why Gira is outed is very simple. They don't believe in anything they say and are flatly and disinterestedly doing what they perceive a townie "should" be doing.

I'm willing to entertain this idea fwiw, but definitely not close to being there yet.

Also I'm not giving Nanook a town lean, idk what ender is talking about, but Nanook hasn't done anything. Except try to be funny so far

Having just wolfed with Nanook, I'd give him a town-lean except that it's super exploitable and not worth much. But basically he's not trying as hard as he did in our wolfgame together.

I'm sure he can still be a wolf here pretty easily tough.

Lacking commitment,
Forcing a town narritive.
A too cautious wolf.

Also why do this,
Where you dissuade discussion?
This seems never town

[VOTE: Luckbox] aubergine

If Dizzy drops their TR on Luckbox, I’ll actually full on push Dizzy.
Especially after Alison does this.

Well you shouldn't tell me him that if that's what your thinking is....fwiw. Better to keep that sort of stuff a secret.

some of this is just incredibly lol fwiw

[Alison]

b/c your reads amount to "are saying thungs i agree with/disagree with"

like this is nothing, borderline tautological, "you are scum because you call towny posts scummy and scummy posts town", is that meant to be anything i can interface with in any way

Really?

Show me where Wilgy or Gavial agreed with everything I said.

When I first scumread Wisp they had an extremely similar POE to me.

Now you're saying kind of the opposite of what you said a little while ago.

Here you show that you're aware that Wisp has been agreeing with a lot of your reads.

A few posts back you said that everyone you scum read disagreed with you.

Are you just full of shit now?

I meant everyone I scum read in the thread disagreed with me/townread in the thread agreed with me.

[Millium]

@Alison
Well ur pressure he got your vote on a town, aso /shrug

[Alison]

I'm sheeping Ender on nanook. Gira is probably town and just throwing a tantrum.

If we assume Luckbox's meta makes him town (which I'm okay to right now, especially for the purposes of building this world) then the non-clears are Carousel, MIzery, tess, Wisp.

Not sure where Dizzy stands in this situation. I'll take a look after class.

What about Lucky's meta makes him town to you?

Ender and Lucky both claim that Lucky is a chronic busser and finds it awkward and difficult to push townies. Lucky is also quite proud of his ability to get there on me when I am town and knows that there will be an expectation that he will defend me if he is town.

Both of these characteristics make it unlikely for scum Lucky to pick a fight with me early when I am going full aggro mode.

[Luckbox Inc]

Time for team theory.
Is this team here possible?
Discuss this with me.

Gira, Wisp, Luckbox?
Is this the full baddie team?
Wouldn't that be nice?

If I'm incorrect,
Which one am I wrong about?
Name a replacement.

Wigly,

Is the posting in verse stuff normal for you and is it ever something that you've done as a wolf?

[Alison]

@Alison
Well ur pressure he got your vote on a town, aso /shrug

If this is a longwinded way of saying "I am town and you are voting me, wahhh" I don't care. If you are town I will get there you. I don't see why you are worried about a 2 vote wagon on you halfway through the day. My style works and it has proven effective at giving me information about people's alignments this very game. If you are town, then you should be hoping it gives me information on yours.

[Dyslexicon]

@Alison
why do u think I have TMI on Gira's slot?

I don't. I'm playing around the possibility.

Uh. You don't? But you think Wisp is scum with a high degree of certainty?

I think Wisp is likely scum in either world. It was unclear to me at the time whether they were TMI-ing Gira, or protecting a buddy.

They would have TMI in either case, but I gets that's just technical.

[Dyslexicon]

No the atrocious thing was that I pressed him hard about the logic behind his thought process and he deflected. It is still atrocious and the only reason I am not pushing him is because I don't think he would act this way because of his meta.

What meta are you referring to here?

[Millium]

Uhhm my keyboard detached from the bottom of my phone and is super small, idk how to fix this, help

[Millium]

Nvm fixed it lol

[Alison]

Yeah, I can't really make a read list yet.

I think Falcon and Gavial are both town.

I'm a bit taken aback by Alison's extreme aggro, but more so how quickly she seems to change her minds on things when I don't at all get the sense that anything in particular got her to go back on her reads or reevaluate. Like how she did with Gira and Lucky.

I need to think more about this, because I'm having too many possible worlds.

If anyone have good reasons to town read certain players that are not Falcon and Gavial let me know lol

Gira is probably town because of #550. Outing fairly complex thoughts in the middle of actively throwing a tantrum and loudly grandstanding about wanting to exe people for being annoying regardless of their alignment is a townie behavior because tantrum-throwing is usually used by scum in order to conceal their lack of actual solving (which is precisely what I was accusing Gira of doing). Even if the emotion comes from a real place it is difficult to resist the temptation to just sit on it and do nothing while being loud and whiny. That Gira was churning thoughts in his head and was able to produce them when talking to someone he wasn't annoyed at is a sign that he has interest in solving the game rather than just coasting by.

Lucky is town for meta reasons I have just explained.

[Dyslexicon]

I don't need people to "deal with" my pushes as town. I push someone because I want to figure out their alignment or because I want to get them killed. I am well aware that I can be a freight train when I push people and that is intended. It helps with rattling them and making them give me AI reactions for the former purpose, or getting them killed with the latter.

I've already gotten two reads that I wouldn't otherwise have gotten to through conflict.

What reads are these and how exactly did you get them?

[Alison]

Why is Alison switching votes so much? Lol.

My reads have changed.

[Millium]

I have no idea how to respond to the accusation that I am tming a town or protecting me buddy. Can I just ignore it? Lol

[Alison]

Perhaps it's just them but I don't like how aggro they are

all i know of them is the one day of Bonk mafia

I am aggressive every game every alignment unless I am completely detached from the game because I am busy IRL. It is the easiest way for me to play mafia, the most fun way for me to play mafia, and the most optimal way (in terms of winrate/effectiveness overall) for me to play mafia.

[Dyslexicon]

I meant everyone I scum read in the thread disagreed with me/townread in the thread agreed with me.

Yeah, but this isn't really true? You said yourself that Wisp, who you scum read, actually did agree or at least not object to your other reads.
And for me, I don't even have solid reads now, except Falcon and Gavial.

[Alison]

Funny cause Dizzy comes into thread and dips with their vote STILL on their townread.

If they were really actually considered about my vote on them they would you know like read my post and take off their vote.

I'm not concerned about your vote on me. I'm not concerned about you randomly deciding you should scum read me and how that all goes down in your head.

I haven't decided who I want to vote for yet.
I'm undecided how much I'm suspecting Alison right now, and I'm honestly a bit eager and nervous to see her reaction to me lol.
I don't have many other suspects, no. I'm not a person who gets scum reads easily.

I haven't dipped. My dad called. Leave me alone.

Why are you nervous?

[Alison]

I meant everyone I scum read in the thread disagreed with me/townread in the thread agreed with me.

Yeah, but this isn't really true? You said yourself that Wisp, who you scum read, actually did agree or at least not object to your other reads.
And for me, I don't even have solid reads now, except Falcon and Gavial.

Wisp was actively disagreeing with my Gira read in the thread at the time.

[Dyslexicon]

I'm sheeping Ender on nanook. Gira is probably town and just throwing a tantrum.

If we assume Luckbox's meta makes him town (which I'm okay to right now, especially for the purposes of building this world) then the non-clears are Carousel, MIzery, tess, Wisp.

Not sure where Dizzy stands in this situation. I'll take a look after class.

What about Lucky's meta makes him town to you?

Ender and Lucky both claim that Lucky is a chronic busser and finds it awkward and difficult to push townies. Lucky is also quite proud of his ability to get there on me when I am town and knows that there will be an expectation that he will defend me if he is town.

Both of these characteristics make it unlikely for scum Lucky to pick a fight with me early when I am going full aggro mode.

Mmk.

What if I considered if you two were teamed mafia?
Would I be crazy?

[Millium]

Meh Alison still makes me not want to play the game, idk how to handle all these meta reads. Feels like I should just accept that nobody knows me and die and flip town.

[Dyslexicon]

Meh Alison still makes me not want to play the game, idk how to handle all these meta reads. Feels like I should just accept that nobody knows me and die and flip town.

People do know you though.

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME What can you tell me about the Wisp/Chad?

[Alison]

I don't need people to "deal with" my pushes as town. I push someone because I want to figure out their alignment or because I want to get them killed. I am well aware that I can be a freight train when I push people and that is intended. It helps with rattling them and making them give me AI reactions for the former purpose, or getting them killed with the latter.

I've already gotten two reads that I wouldn't otherwise have gotten to through conflict.

What reads are these and how exactly did you get them?

Gira and Luckbox reads. Gira read was created because he was placed under pressure, imploded as a result of it, and did something I don't think mafia members usually do when they implode. Luckbox read was created because he was placed into an antagonistic position with me and responded in a way I don't think he would do as mafia as a result of his meta.

It's like forcing engagement + a reaction test + setting up the foundation to vote them off if you decide they truly are mafia at the end of it, all in one. As long as it doesn't get to the point where it monopolizes the thread and the thread is just page after page of people yelling in all caps at each other then it's strictly superior to coasting. And I stopped it on purpose before it got to that point.

[Alison]

I'm sheeping Ender on nanook. Gira is probably town and just throwing a tantrum.

If we assume Luckbox's meta makes him town (which I'm okay to right now, especially for the purposes of building this world) then the non-clears are Carousel, MIzery, tess, Wisp.

Not sure where Dizzy stands in this situation. I'll take a look after class.

What about Lucky's meta makes him town to you?

Ender and Lucky both claim that Lucky is a chronic busser and finds it awkward and difficult to push townies. Lucky is also quite proud of his ability to get there on me when I am town and knows that there will be an expectation that he will defend me if he is town.

Both of these characteristics make it unlikely for scum Lucky to pick a fight with me early when I am going full aggro mode.

Mmk.

What if I considered if you two were teamed mafia?
Would I be crazy?

Yes.

[Millium]

I meant everyone I scum read in the thread disagreed with me/townread in the thread agreed with me.

Yeah, but this isn't really true? You said yourself that Wisp, who you scum read, actually did agree or at least not object to your other reads.
And for me, I don't even have solid reads now, except Falcon and Gavial.

Wisp was actively disagreeing with my Gira read in the thread at the time.

Wrong I agreed he could be a wolf, not what ever the fuck u were spewing about him being "obvious and outted", only for you to switch, because no surprise to my original statement, that nobody knows what towncore or obvious actually means. U guys wanted me to throw out reads when it was clear many of you were throwing out stronger reads due to meta, which I didn't have. And I finally throw my vote down, and even tho Lucky's vote makes no sense, I just have to accept they wouldn't handle Alison the way they are if they are a wolf

[Dyslexicon]

Why are you nervous?

Because I'm not in the mood for you to start screaming at me because I'm questioning you, but I also need to question you.

[Alison]

Meh Alison still makes me not want to play the game, idk how to handle all these meta reads. Feels like I should just accept that nobody knows me and die and flip town.

AtE is scummy. Thanks for reinforcing my confidence on you being mafia.

[Millium]

Ur wrong, but that's ok
I have lost my interest in this game, enjoy your 10 billion meta reads and unfun mafia experience

Like I said before, I joined a game on mafia syndicate not mafia scum

[Dyslexicon]

Alright, I guess those answers are good enough for me to not vote Alison.
The thing she has going for her is finding it important to identify and defend Falcon and Gavial.

[Alison]

I meant everyone I scum read in the thread disagreed with me/townread in the thread agreed with me.

Yeah, but this isn't really true? You said yourself that Wisp, who you scum read, actually did agree or at least not object to your other reads.
And for me, I don't even have solid reads now, except Falcon and Gavial.

Wisp was actively disagreeing with my Gira read in the thread at the time.

Wrong I agreed he could be a wolf, not what ever the fuck u were spewing about him being "obvious and outted", only for you to switch, because no surprise to my original statement, that nobody knows what towncore or obvious actually means. U guys wanted me to throw out reads when it was clear many of you were throwing out stronger reads due to meta, which I didn't have. And I finally throw my vote down, and even tho Lucky's vote makes no sense, I just have to accept they wouldn't handle Alison the way they are if they are a wolf

I have not made that many meta reads this game.

Dizzy was half meta. Luckbox was a meta read. Gavial was kinda a meta read.

My initial scumread on Gira wasn't. My new townread on Gira isn't. My scumread on you isn't meta. My initial scumread on Mizery wasn't meta, and neither was my decision to give them some space and accept their antics as NAI. My townread on falcon wasn't meta, and neither was my townread on Ender.

If I think someone is an obvious wolf and someone else stands in my way I am going to consider that person as disagreeing with my reads/line of thought.