Philosophy Mafia 2: Electric Boogaloo

[Marmot]

EVERYONE THAT ARGUE THAT IM GOOD OR EVEN DECENT AT THIS GAME SHOULD BE KILLED ASAP.

I TAKE PRAISE IN BEING BOTTOM OF BARREL AND IM NOT GOOD AT THIS.[/SIZE]

Do not let anyone say that I'm capable of being a good player as suss reasons ever!

I made other arguments and you poopooed those too

But yeah I agree, "you are good at mafia" is impossible to defend against.

[DrWilgy]

[DrWilgy]

What's going on in here today?

[Marmot]

You froggin mate

[Marmot]

If ur scum, ur about to get licked wilgy

[DrWilgy]

If ur scum, ur about to get licked wilgy

Can I be licked if not scum? Asking for a friend.

[Marmot]

If ur scum, ur about to get licked wilgy

Can I be licked if not scum? Asking for a friend.

Everything about this post is fire

[Marmot]

I'm like very tempted to declare Mac hard outed but idk lmao

i was actually typing up a post saying that mac was demonstrating the "wolves don't know what to do when iaafr and nutella are tagteam obvtowning in thread" theorem but i felt bad about the hubris and deleted it but now i'm posting it anyway

he clearly doesn't know what to do which is >rand wolf for mac, it's early but significant imo

I didn't read any posts at all but if you and iaafr wanna run the game be my guest

Oh hey, Mac did a similar thing that JJJ did wert nutella/iaafr. Intriguing

[Marmot]

I'm like very tempted to declare Mac hard outed but idk lmao

i was actually typing up a post saying that mac was demonstrating the "wolves don't know what to do when iaafr and nutella are tagteam obvtowning in thread" theorem but i felt bad about the hubris and deleted it but now i'm posting it anyway

he clearly doesn't know what to do which is >rand wolf for mac, it's early but significant imo

I didn't read any posts at all but if you and iaafr wanna run the game be my guest

Oh hey, Mac did a similar thing that JJJ did wert nutella/iaafr. Intriguing

[nutella]

Yeah just is obv tmi that we're both town.

Anyway. I don't have the balls to vote anne a third time but iaafr is right her iso just entirely sucks and you guys really should not be clearing her for being the cw. It's absolutely possible that we were just dunking so hard on the mafia that we had w/w wagons twice (especially note that jay/mac/anne/sloon were all absent eod1 so yes it can be mostly town that voted her). Also show dead alexa some respect on her read. I think we flip esooa today but people treating anne as clear are just way off base imo

[leetic]

I'm selfishly regretting not voting Mac even though I pretty much knew all game that he was scum, even D1 without really reading lol. But nice job anyway, who needs me. I don't.

Anyways, I'll have time to get even more into the game this evening as I don't have any plans. So I'll be around. Also not as stressed about being PoEed if that is the case anymore, since two mafia are down. If we assume 4 mafia, which I think we are? I'll try my best to roll my eyes silently and it will probably be a better experience for me.

You. Claim. Now.

[leetic]

Yeah just is obv tmi that we're both town.

Anyway. I don't have the balls to vote anne a third time but iaafr is right her iso just entirely sucks and you guys really should not be clearing her for being the cw. It's absolutely possible that we were just dunking so hard on the mafia that we had w/w wagons twice (especially note that jay/mac/anne/sloon were all absent eod1 so yes it can be mostly town that voted her). Also show dead alexa some respect on her read. I think we flip esooa today but people treating anne as clear are just way off base imo

Why are you still suspecting Anne, Axehole flipped town and JJJ would have almost certainly pushed that over anne D1

[nutella]

I said it right there fucking read dude. Read her iso. It's all garbage and not towny, idc about your "x wouldnt do this" that can all be reading into it from the wrong direction. Her posts don't come from town

[nutella]

Like giving credit for votes that can easily be buses will not get you anywhere in many games. Idk what the vote count was when he voted/how viable naa was but he needed to do what he thought would pay off.

[leetic]

Like giving credit for votes that can easily be buses will not get you anywhere in many games. Idk what the vote count was when he voted/how viable naa was but he needed to do what he thought would pay off.

Why would scum bus in that situation though when they didn't need to? You haven't even considered that, and your insistence on a wagon that was wolfy both times is alarming.

[nutella]

Vca/wagonomics just so often leads people down the wrong path, it can be a tool in your toolkit but it absolutely should not outweigh everything in someone's iso pinging as off. Just vote wolfy people. Works for me.

[nutella]

Like giving credit for votes that can easily be buses will not get you anywhere in many games. Idk what the vote count was when he voted/how viable naa was but he needed to do what he thought would pay off.

Why would scum bus in that situation though when they didn't need to? You haven't even considered that, and your insistence on a wagon that was wolfy both times is alarming.

Jay may have felt he needed to, is my point. He may have grasped onto whatever he thought would regain him some good graces in the thread if he survived, and would distance him from anne. You should never assume what was going on in a wolf's mind bc we don't know every factor or motive. Anne's just wolfy so I will continue to not naively clear her thank you for your time.

[leetic]

Like giving credit for votes that can easily be buses will not get you anywhere in many games. Idk what the vote count was when he voted/how viable naa was but he needed to do what he thought would pay off.

Why would scum bus in that situation though when they didn't need to? You haven't even considered that, and your insistence on a wagon that was wolfy both times is alarming.

Jay may have felt he needed to, is my point. He may have grasped onto whatever he thought would regain him some good graces in the thread if he survived, and would distance him from anne. You should never assume what was going on in a wolf's mind bc we don't know every factor or motive. Anne's just wolfy so I will continue to not naively clear her thank you for your time.

Jay could have viably gone after Axehole and no one would blame him, and his posts seemed comfortable with the thread state. If he was trying a bus he would have been a lot more forceful on anne but his posts were only lamely saying that he didn't really care who in anne/MR/Wilgy/Axehole died, only anne was slightly preferred, like if they were all town and he didn't care which was misvoted. He could not have predicted how rapidly the thread turned against him so there's no need to use anne for towncred. You're not taking into account information after the flips and just trying to do the same thing as last phase, which is scummy.

[nutella]

It's clear that everything about the way you and I play mafia is completely opposing and it's impossible to communicate anything. Just know that I have a pretty high accuracy rate on the type of read ive had on anne this game netting scum. Could be wrong too but everyone else is literally just townier except maybe esooa and wilgy. Let's just go with the one bit of common ground we have today and flip esooa.

[nutella]

Like giving credit for votes that can easily be buses will not get you anywhere in many games. Idk what the vote count was when he voted/how viable naa was but he needed to do what he thought would pay off.

Why would scum bus in that situation though when they didn't need to? You haven't even considered that, and your insistence on a wagon that was wolfy both times is alarming.

Jay may have felt he needed to, is my point. He may have grasped onto whatever he thought would regain him some good graces in the thread if he survived, and would distance him from anne. You should never assume what was going on in a wolf's mind bc we don't know every factor or motive. Anne's just wolfy so I will continue to not naively clear her thank you for your time.

Jay could have viably gone after Axehole and no one would blame him, and his posts seemed comfortable with the thread state. If he was trying a bus he would have been a lot more forceful on anne but his posts were only lamely saying that he didn't really care who in anne/MR/Wilgy/Axehole died, only anne was slightly preferred, like if they were all town and he didn't care which was misvoted. He could not have predicted how rapidly the thread turned against him so there's no need to use anne for towncred. You're not taking into account information after the flips and just trying to do the same thing as last phase, which is scummy.

Maybe at the time jay voted anne saw her wagon building up and was demotivated and just told her teammates to bus her. We don't know. We can't know. There is hidden information, that's part of the game. The information available to us does not sell me on anne being town, we just disagree on that

[leetic]

It's clear that everything about the way you and I play mafia is completely opposing and it's impossible to communicate anything. Just know that I have a pretty high accuracy rate on the type of read ive had on anne this game netting scum. Could be wrong too but everyone else is literally just townier except maybe esooa and wilgy. Let's just go with the one bit of common ground we have today and flip esooa.

I mean, my way has had been more effective in the game thus far, but we'll see

[leetic]

Like giving credit for votes that can easily be buses will not get you anywhere in many games. Idk what the vote count was when he voted/how viable naa was but he needed to do what he thought would pay off.

Why would scum bus in that situation though when they didn't need to? You haven't even considered that, and your insistence on a wagon that was wolfy both times is alarming.

Jay may have felt he needed to, is my point. He may have grasped onto whatever he thought would regain him some good graces in the thread if he survived, and would distance him from anne. You should never assume what was going on in a wolf's mind bc we don't know every factor or motive. Anne's just wolfy so I will continue to not naively clear her thank you for your time.

Jay could have viably gone after Axehole and no one would blame him, and his posts seemed comfortable with the thread state. If he was trying a bus he would have been a lot more forceful on anne but his posts were only lamely saying that he didn't really care who in anne/MR/Wilgy/Axehole died, only anne was slightly preferred, like if they were all town and he didn't care which was misvoted. He could not have predicted how rapidly the thread turned against him so there's no need to use anne for towncred. You're not taking into account information after the flips and just trying to do the same thing as last phase, which is scummy.

Maybe at the time jay voted anne saw her wagon building up and was demotivated and just told her teammates to bus her. We don't know. We can't know. There is hidden information, that's part of the game. The information available to us does not sell me on anne being town, we just disagree on that

Why would he be demotivated when the Wilgy and Axehole wagons were still strong? Plus, a large part of the reason why the anne wagon built up was because Jay was on it

[Marmot]

Spoiler: show

I'm like very tempted to declare Mac hard outed but idk lmao

i was actually typing up a post saying that mac was demonstrating the "wolves don't know what to do when iaafr and nutella are tagteam obvtowning in thread" theorem but i felt bad about the hubris and deleted it but now i'm posting it anyway

he clearly doesn't know what to do which is >rand wolf for mac, it's early but significant imo

This post looks town to me for reasons I don’t want to get into. The EM gang or others should say if they feel this is not a post to be town read.

leetic/ilario are probably my top town read.

lol Jay wolfing

[VOTE: macdougall] aubergine


I actually think the idea that jay is off has been overblown and he's been largely fine so far and has given thoughts that appear real enough. Mac has done...not that.

sorting playerlist into two simple tiers (alphabetical within)

i have at least some degree of town impressions:
anne
cassandra
iaafr
ilario/leetic
jaggedjimmyjay
lime coke
master radishes
nanook

i don't feel any reason to townread:
drwilgy
dyslexicon
falcon
macdougall
marmot
notanaxehole
sloonei
staypositivefriend

the most out-of-place names on each list feel like master radishes and spf, in that they can almost go in either

i'm curious if my take on marmot is controversial since he has actually produced a reasonable amount of content, it's just that the content and its depth doesn't ring genuine to me. maybe i'm crazy but that rodent smells funky

Mac looked 100x worse than Jay in that tete a tete and the fact that falcon is macsiding there is quite uninspiring for the bird man as well.

Let's not refer to online/viewing information in game k?


Anyway idk on mac, I want falcon to confirm that mac gave falcon ample time to use the check bc I'm concerned that wolf mac would be more eager to use the peek. But I do find Mac's accounting of events plausible, with falcon not showing up to the chat promptly etc, so I'd be fine with focusing elsewhere.

@falcon45ca Can you/did you confirm this mechanic?

Yes. Get yo dang votes off Mac

Why do you think he's town?

If he wasn't, he wouldn't have checked me & got me into our chat

As I begin to absorb today’s episode of Nonsense Mechanics, this seems to be the core matter. If Mac is town, he green checked falcon. So falcon can only be mafia in a world where Mac also is (still wouldn’t have to be), barring goofy shit that would seem to violate host promises.

So I land here. Falcon’s perspective of Mac is a valuable one, because he has unique access to Mac in this game. Falcon: can you please expand on what you say in this post here (that is, why wouldn’t mafia Mac do that), and also just give your general impressions of what he’s done in the chat?

I feel Mac would have checked me instantly if he were Maf, and wouldn't have done the fart posting as well...if that type of posting aroused suspicion (which it did), why do it when he knows I could check him? His check on me coincides with my lack of posting/participating in our chat, which is a towny mindset IMO.


In our chat he made mention of my being town after all, and we've been solving together. He's not pocketing me, and we're not agreeing on all our reads...something that strikes me as towny as well.

This is fine I guess. I don't think I want to chop Mac today really. Just not sure where else to vote, naa and wilgy both kinda feel like copout options but I don't have anything better to put forward atm.

This is nutella's progression on Mac Day 1. It does look good at first, but I think we need to acknowledge that if nutella was scum, she would know that Mac/falcon had a neighborhood, and that Mac would probably be able to clear himself in falcon's eyes. So if nutella does end up just accepting Mac as town from here on out, I think that's a bad look.

Note: nutella didn't mention Mac again at all Day 1.

Where did I suspect the mech clears? Please tell me, Nutella. All I said is that mech clears don't exist in this game as we typically know it, a factually true statement. If you want to suspect me then go right ahead, but don't make up things I never said.

I did near mech clears, yes I know there aren't real mech clears youal are entirely missing my point. The point is we are taking them as town for now and working with a poe and i think maybe you're not happy with that poe and want to expand it.

Sure I think Mac should be in the poe, but not falcon. Illeeric I think are most likely just town from play, it did cross my mind that it could be like a jekyll and hyde situation where one of them is actually mafia but that would be pretty bastard lol. Like I think leetics playstyle alone explains why he's so hard to work with and the way he grabs onto things is towny if aggravating.

I don't think voting Falcon before Mac matters because I think they both can be scum. You're trying to create an argument where there is none other than your preference to flip Mac first for mech reasons

It matters bc if mac flips town falcon is ic and the inverse is not true

Hey alexa, vote anne already. You've been dancing around seriously scumreading her all game, you should commit atp.

Where did I suspect the mech clears? Please tell me, Nutella. All I said is that mech clears don't exist in this game as we typically know it, a factually true statement. If you want to suspect me then go right ahead, but don't make up things I never said.

I did near mech clears, yes I know there aren't real mech clears youal are entirely missing my point. The point is we are taking them as town for now and working with a poe and i think maybe you're not happy with that poe and want to expand it.

Sure I think Mac should be in the poe, but not falcon. Illeeric I think are most likely just town from play, it did cross my mind that it could be like a jekyll and hyde situation where one of them is actually mafia but that would be pretty bastard lol. Like I think leetics playstyle alone explains why he's so hard to work with and the way he grabs onto things is towny if aggravating.

Well, I had leetic as my strongest townread, so did you read my post? That's not what I meant when I said we shouldn't mech clear people, also I was referring to the opposite which would be Mac/Falcon sharing alignments. The POE right now is just me basically, so of course anyone I suspect would be "expanding" it and if you look closely at my post, if I was mafia trying to expand the POE then i didn't do a very good job with it.

The poe is really not just you lol. Sure it's technically possible mac and falcon are w/w but the way they explained the mech I think it is exceedingly unlikely. Falcon should be taken as near clear for now imo, it's optimal to go along with it etc

These posts are ok. Nutella only mentions Mac because cass voted for him, and because Anne wants to vote for falcon here. But I do think the logic here is perfectly reasonable from a town perspective.

Conf-bias suggests nutella doesn't actually want to yeet Mac, she just wants to be correct about something in regards to Mac, and knows that chopping falcon is effectively chopping Mac, so pushing the chop onto Mac instead might look better for her if he flips.

anne seems really awkward here like she doesn't know how to look like she has any insight or contributions to the thread lol.

the spf/mac interaction was weird, i can see that as any configuration of alignment really

i feel like spf has been pretty low key so far and i don't have a clear view on what i think of her at all

esooa... idk. i go back and forth. sloonei was p much completely nai but my gut still says wolf, and esooa has been fairly neutral in my view so far. the fact iaafr townreads her does mean something to me though, iaafr is my single beacon of sanity in this thread where everyone else is taking crazy pills and pushing the least charitable interpretations of everything i say

A mention of Mac here, but only in relation to spf, and nutella pursues a read of spf instead.

The focus in this post appears to be mostly on Anne, as the rest of it is hedgey.

I see the mafia are voting me

Who are they?

pick one idc

[VOTE: staypositivefriend] aubergine

I see the mafia are voting me

Who are they?

pick one idc

So you think that all of the mafia (I'm assuming there's no more than 3 left at this point) are currently lined up as your wagon, and they are specifically ilario/leetic, NAA, and spf, and we chop those 3 and that's game?

No Marmot I don't think that

I do think spf is probably only voting me because she's stuck for candidates though. I have nfi why the other two are.

[VOTE: mac] aubergine

why are you still farting everywhere instead of playing

Ok, nutella actually drops a vote on Mac here, and I believe this is like 8 hours from EOD at this point.

dunno why iaafr is voting me now lol we have like most of the same reads except for my spf paranoia really but he cant say anything so

im probably gonna end on anne, i keep getting caught up in thinking mac's claim really sounds like it comes from town pov but i really dont have reason to townread him on play

ive seen a couple of people say that they think mac is towny for his claim, but i dont really understand why. we know that claims arent tied to alignment and i dont think there's anything about his claim that he would be particularly ~unlikely~ to do as mafia. do you mind expanding on that a lil bit?

im more interested in seeing mac genuinely scumhunt, which i do not feel like he has

i think theres some nuances to the way hes talked about it perspective-wise that just feel genuine to me, like for instance about the mafia supposedly finding out and stuff, idk if i can explain tbh but i could just be easily fooled by that kind of thing and hes done nothing else towny so meh. and when he was initially claiming how he waited for falcon to show up but went ahead and used it anyway, i found that pretty sus. whats particularly weird to me is that falcon isnt questioning him at all, maybe because he appears solvey in the neighbor chat but he could be pocketed


tsp mech is a blight on society

Blames the host for Mac's scumhunting. Ok that's mostly a joke.

I don't find this defense particularly convincing though. Yeah sometimes we can't explain things, but this was a crucial thing for nutella to not be able to explain.

if roles arent tied to alignments, then why was the mafia presumably informed when mac and falcon became lovers? if the roles are written to be alignment-neutral then it doesnt really make sense to me that a condition of their role would be: "the mafia will find out when you do X", but maybe i shouldnt think about it

flail harder nerd

all i hear is howling

either the setup is broken or theyre bullshitting about the mafia finding out that theyre lovers

i changed my mind again [VOTE: spf] aubergine

like i feel like youre poking holes in the wrong things, i see no reason to believe they'd just make that part up lol (also what marmot said but im also squinting a bit at how he said his role gave the mafia clause if he randed town)


spf remind me what your stance on anne is rn bc i probably want to end on one of you or maybe naa

Ok this is bad. nutella jumped to a scumread and a vote on spf, and she had so much trouble finding reasons to scumread Mac before.

Also, the logic of voting for spf based on her anne read isn't sound, especially given that nutella is voting for spf for completely separate reasons.

Bruh, can we literally talk about how all of Mac's reads are based on him just reading how others read him?

It's literally just OMGUS from him. That's what he does as mafia.

thats pretty common from town mac too ime?


also lime i think youve been pretty townie but i have some reservations on your reads and i obviously dont agree with you on spf rn. i thought you were trying to cut down on hard shields anyway in case youre wrong

Now nutella hard defends Mac.

I can see a town!nutella being tunneled on spf, and seeing Mac as town based on those interactions, but I don't buy the reasoning that led nutella to voting for spf over Mac in the first place.

what if iaafr/mac are wolves and mac made that sudden case on iaafr on d1 to distance from him?

lol

possible

i can see a team of anne/iaafr/esooa or anne/iaafr/mac


anyway lets just flip anne today

These lists are weird

And like, where did spf's name go?

These are the interactions and mentions that nutella had of Mac. There's a couple moments that are ok, but there are moments that look less good for her imo, and despite calling Mac wolf early, she unfortunately faltered on that read down the stretch.

[Marmot]

Spoiler: show

Can I get a brief summary of the main wagons so that I can attempt to weigh in on stuff?

The only one with actual clear reasoning is Mac's for questionable mech usage (but falcon is vouching for him). The rest are various shades of shrugs.

Should we be skeptical of the five people who are voting for axehole for shadey shrugs?

I want to ask about mac's questionable mech usage, but I don't want to force anyone to waste posts explaining something to me that probably has an easily searchable answer, but if someone doesn't mind doing that I would appreciate it.

This was Sloonei's only mention of Mac. It could be a way of acknowledging him while asking people to not engage him with it. Weird.

iaafr looking bad on votes is good actaully

Can you read Mac's iso and tell us what it means? He stunk Day 1.

not rn

Esooa says she won't iso mac when I asked her to after subbing in.

This post looks town to me for reasons I don’t want to get into. The EM gang or others should say if they feel this is not a post to be town read.

leetic/ilario are probably my top town read.

lol Jay wolfing

I guess I think nook and jay are v/v now lmao

ok ur town lol

Why

Do me a favour and just ignore my presence until I do things that matter k?

these look unaligned to me btw

Not rly

Disagrees when iaafr calls Mac and JJJ unaligned. This post feels more contrarian than anything.

Are you really just gonna go back to tunneling for no reason like this?

Can I see a defense against the points people are making against you? I know you've only been here a short time but you still found time to tinfoil like four separate people, it's the least you could do

No

Yeah you're full of shit. [VOTE: Esooa] aubergine Even my previous point for you can be rescinded given nutella's interaction, and you have not given me one indication you are town. nutella's still scummier but I would not mind going after this.

Your previous points are about Sloonei, lmfao

90% of the rest are "PoE cause they subbed in "

The only existing not-that reasons are Alexa going off because I didn't agree with her, and SPF saying that I am slightly tonally off in whatever way, I forgot

Extremely cringe

You have tried to go after me for basically no reason other than "wallpost", you've tried shading Mac with no explanation, you have a hedgy and overly convoluted nutella defense, nutella has given a number of strong indications of being partnered with you, I don't even care about Sloonei at this point because the evidence against you is so much stronger.

I'm gonna tell you why this post is really fucking awful then leave

You're doing the same shit people do every game someone subs in where you think because my reads aren't the equivalent of other day 2-esque reads they're bad, and it's stupid

I never shaded Mac and to even try to call it that is AWFUL

I COMPLETELY VALIDLY said his interactions that Iaafr quoted are not good for him

Mac is literally one of the best people at making good w/w interactions I know

He has literally made a partner die because he randomly RT'd a red on them and they responded poorly

I did not hedge on my Nutella defense, I explained my thoughts irt to the post

Partially too because it was something I was feeling earlier, and then remember that's just a part of Nutella, and it's probably towny overall

The "Nutella is partnered with you" thing is really just pointless

Thnx tho, later now

I don't believe esooa ever tried to shade Mac, so I do believe she's right about that point.

Mac is good at making w/w interactions, that is also a good point.

There aren't any reads on Mac here, but this post is fine overall. I can definitely understand esooa's frustration upon entering the game the way she did (or really, the way anyone does). No one gave her a chance to ease into the game, myself included.

I'm pretty sure nanook is exactly the kill Mac would make btw

This exactly the post I made at EOD lmao.

mac's green is probably just fake cause they're lovers

mac do you know iaafr

esooa you know me better than to think that I'd make a d1 play like that with a teammate

... yes?

if you're a wolf the green obviously isn't valid

if you're town I don't really think it is

I'm town reading falcon regardless

given the mafia got alerted when i checked falcon there's guaranteed to be a mafia voting me with the way that I was playing because they know it's 2 for the price of 1

what lol

esooa you know me better than to think that I'd make a d1 play like that with a teammate

... yes?

if you're a wolf the green obviously isn't valid

if you're town I don't really think it is

I'm town reading falcon regardless

you think that I would gambit day 1 on fake green checking my teammate?

no, my point was if your a wolf the check literally isn't relevant anyways

so the statement only means anything if you're town

This interaction I think looks reasonable for esooa until the end

mac is probably just town actually

not cause of anything he's posted recently but I think if he's a wolf solving in lover chat and stuff, he just puts that activity in thread instead of like flopping about

like if he's already solving and putting energy into the game I can't see the motivation to not use that to get town read more as a wolf

This read doesn't make sense to me. I feel like esooa gave herself reasons to scumread Mac, but ended up with a townread based on how she assumes Mac would play the game.

But I don't blame her for the assumption. Mac did feel like he was flailing, and that was a portion of why I had trouble scumreading him, he wasn't trying to control the game.

Spoiler: show

Finished reading day 1. I'm kinda tired of reading posts so I skimmed/wasn't absorbing much of the EoD, but should be fine

anne - will talk about more after, generally pretty whelmed by her posts but I've liked it more than not. The biggest thing for me was her SPF read about big posts, where she posted it going like "the scummiest thing about spf is her post size," was pressured on it and said it wasn't really serious, then after being pressured a little more explains the read with like 2 decent paragraphs. It's a read that I've had on SPF before too so I kinda understand it, but mostly I think the treatment of shirking on the read by saying it's not really serious but actually having the opinion (cause she explained it and seemed decently serious) makes me think it's just genuine, it's something I've felt a lot where I'm like "yeah I don't really want to give this read cause people won't like me for it so it's just kinda a joke"

cassandra - Talked about for the most part, I thought while reading EoD briefly that her thread positioning fits a wolf who's just kinda riding consensus (which I do think is a problem right now) which also would involve going with the flow and bussing JJJ day 1, but her posts really just don't read like a bus. Even if Alexa was intending to deep wolf this game which isn't really implausible imo, I doubt she ever goes out of her way to get a partner killed when he wasn't really in contention that EoD until she talked about him a lot

DrWilgy - honestly got close to nothing from his day 1 posts. He's posted a few decently lucid thoughts this day phase that I liked, but I don't really know how he plays as wolf. Everything I've seen from him seems in line with his town games from before, though. The biggest problem I have with him is mostly other peoples posting about him, lol. People saying "the MR shot was good for him"

Like, it was on a towny, and it's not rly like he's just going to out to shoot someone outer PoE imo. Radishes is also someone who can contribute pretty well but is also a low accountability kill, like I think it's a scummier kill than not tbh.

Though I just remembered specifically his posting about calling Anne town, that was pretty good and I generally agree with the thoughts, would add those to my reasons to town read Anne

Dyslexicon - Liked their vibes but their recent reads list really pinged me

They read all of day 1 and just dropped a PoE going "Mac Anne Esooa" and it made me really just go like

This is actually just the consensus PoE for the past 24 hours and no one has cared, like hello pls why is this a thing

Particularly don't like it irt mostly in annoyance because I think I'm PoE only for being a sub, but I think it's a pretty good demonstration of what I mean. I have 88 posts in 24 hours already and I still feel like I'm being treated as a nothing slot and nobody really cares that much about my placement, the people who really do I think are decently likely town regardless. And the same thing is being done with Mac/Anne where they're just... existing as PoE and nothing is being done about it. No one's being pushed, Anne has been decently wagoned but there's no one really convicted she's a wolf, it's just kinda like.. yeah she's vaguely scummy, and votes are just placed on her

I think especially because I'm town and no one is taking any interest in movement it decently raises the others chances of being town, btw, but I digress, going back to Dizzy;

The way they engaged with the reads just felt shitty and made the thread state particularly hit me. They read day 1, which like yeah that's good, but then afterwards just dropped their fully consensus PoE with no real interest in actually solving these slots. I've posted around Dizzy a few times and liked that we had similar thoughts, but they don't even seem to have registered that fact. They said "Mac's day 1 was pretty lackluster, hope he picks it up day 2," but doesn't talk about or investigate his day 2 at all. The drive to solve from Dizzy just feels non-existent and I really didn't like it

I was gonna say their recent clap back against Illario was good, though, mostly for it feeling like a kinda towny "get the fuck off me," while I think wolf Dizzy would indeed be more of a smooth talker/etc, but I dunno I'm feeling they're decently wolfy now, prob just going to say they're null becuase idk about the Marmot interactions and think Marmot is decently wolfy

falcon45ca - Pretty confident he's town, like very. Green checked by Mac which I agree isn't ever w/w (his wolf equity probably actually increases if Mac is town cause I still kinda feel like the check is fake) but mostly has just been genuinely towny in giving like, hard hitting reads lol, as in when he explains his wolf reads they just have good conviction, and he pushes on things with determination the way he does as town, etc.

iaafr - Probs town. Had some slight paranoia from reading EoD he could be a wolf because his JJJ vote seemingly came out of no where, but I possibly just don't remember his previous stance on JJJ. I think the way he flip flopped on the read still is good but doubtfully hard clearing just cause I've pointed out this thing before and there's enough people with "iaafr meta" that I think he'd possibly be aware enough to try and subvert it like he did, more leaning to town still though. Generally just based on vibes, way he's posting, so I don't have a specific "this is town" thing from him. Some random thoughts on him I put down cause why not are that I actually did really like the way he approach SPF, he mentioned to me in DM's recently that he thinks SPF has very AI openers, and without me in the game too he brings out this read in specific about SPF, paying specific attention to her opener. Another thing I liked was the way he defended Nutella but didn't want to commit to it mostly because it reminds me of his thoughts about Limestone from a previous game, though I'm kinda eh on that particular read as the days gone longer

ilario/leetic - getting town vibes from both atm. Leetic is funny to me but the way he's pushing things seems more like a towny committed to their processes than a wolf trying to be obtuse to sow division, particularly got this feeling around EoD1. I haven't cared to read either much but Illario has just been really towny imo. Approach to NAA was good, like saying a player is mafia because they're town siding too much. Biggest thing I have in his favor was from EoD1 when he was like "why is (x person, I forgot) a wagon, I hope I get night killed."

Classic Illario town moment

Lime Coke - honestly haven't really been trying to solve him at all. His recent posts about "this day phase is weird" have made me :? slightly because he's mentioned it a few times but hasn't even talked about and is just... saying it. I also just kinda find the posts funny because NAA was saying he always goes into lost mode as town mid-game lmao but yea. People are generally reading him town, I'm fine with it don't care, if he lives another day or two will just ISO then and be able to get a decently confident read probably

MacDougall - think Mac is more likely town than not. Usually when I see him try to dig himself out of holes as mafia he does it more so trying to emulate his town style. Posting reads off the cuff, throwing his ego around, kinda thing. He's done some of the ego stuff but not as much, and the biggest response to pressure from him was just writing a big iaafr case that I liked the spontaneity of and I don't particularly think he'd be casing iaafr here as a wolf cause just.. why

Tbh, thinking this is less strong of a reason than I had in my head now that I write it out though. I do agree that sitting around doing nothing comes from wolf Mac a lot more often than town Mac, too, so yeah.

Marmot - I've explained this one, already wrote enough in this post. Kinda having doubts about him mostly because of volume, I don't really know how capable he is of that as a wolf, but like, I don't really like the way most of his volume is made anyways tbh. It's all very disconnected, and especially when he explains his previous thoughts they're very empty. Like, when I asked him about the Nutella stuff, he gave very generic reasoning for the posts I quoted... but also didn't mention the thought processes going into some of his posts he made about Nutella around that time that I *didn't* quote

And like, if he's actually going thought his thought processes, it feels weird he wouldn't talk about that? Or just have more going on in general, tbh

I kinda thought his response to pressure earlier was wolfy, I don't know how much I care about that now. Not much but I may as well mention

Basically he was pretty aggro about wolf reads on him, calling them really bad, but then he immediately switched into like, cooperative mode, going "I don't think this day phase has been going in a good direction for town, we need to come together to fix the problem." It just felt skeevy but meh

NotAnAxehole - I think he's had a few towny posts but I'm going back and forth on him. I guess he's PoE, but not really a priority at all. His post earlier about me not having thoughts on spew from the wolf was good, mostly because in one of the most previous games we played I read his spew pretty in depth to push his wolf partner Alison, so it makes sense he's expecting me to look at those kinda things again. It's mostly a minor point, though. He had some posts day 1 that were like, snap read kinda things, just posting thoughts on a fair few things in quick succession. I could be wrong about this because I didn't read much of backwards mafia where he was a wolf, but I recall his reads being a lot more formulaic/stilted in that game, not as flowy as there.

I think by far the worst part about NAA is his JJJ read. He talked a lot about JJJ, and basically seemed to put a strong emphasis on JJJ's influence in his game, but at the same time claimed... no read on him. I don't really understand how you can not have a read on someone who's a focal point of your game, and it felt like an excuse more than anything. I also think him being on the wagon is actually bad considering his earlier stuff in the EoD about not voting JJJ

nutella - have felt like she's slightly towny in terms of her reads. Have some minor gripes but meh. I think the pressure against her SoD2 was jumped on by a wolf, which helps, tbh I don't remember who all did that but I know Marmot did at least which I didn't like, lol. I do agree with Iaafr's opinion that Nutella's posts about JJJ don't look partnered but I kinda expected more? Like the one Dizzy quoted earlier and said they liked was good, but I didn't really see much else from Nutella about JJJ that I went like "yeah this is someone without TMI on JJJ"

I also just barely lost to wolf!Alexa due to associative reads lol, (Gira was the one who pulled the trigger on that but I was thinking the same while alive), and kinda was thinking after seeing that, that I shouldn't be clearing partners off of like... individual posts that can really intentionally be wifomy. Nutella's thoughts about JJJ extend past one post but not significantly.

Do agree that her having no tunnels is a bit but eh. Town leaning her

staypositivefriend - Pretty conflicted on SPF this game which I don't like, leaning her wolf though. I have a lot of stuff that I'd need to pull posts for that I don't really want to do right now because I've spent a lot of time writing this but basically, I don't really agree with Alexa that SPF's EoD was that good. She did venture off the wagons temporarily that led to JJJ being in contention, but I don't think "I don't want to kill JJJ today" is something SPF wouldn't be able to post as a wolf. It's like, not that hard to think as a wolf considering it's a pretty common thought, and she did a few things I didn't like EoD. Immediately after saying she thought JJJ was wolfy but she didn't want to kill him that day, she made a really, really really wolfy post; I'm actually going to go find it.

i think that wilgy is the type of player that people might find easy to push on regardless of his alignment, and i also would be lying if i said that ive gotten anything alignment indicative out of his posts

the real reason that im voting for him is because he has a vested interest in maintaining an active presence in this game, but he does not appear to have a vested interest in solving the game. when someone cares a lot about a game but that "caring" doesn't translate to any visible scumhunting, then it can be indicative of the person playing in a wolf mindset

So, in the first paragraph she says "I would be lying if I said that I've gotten anything AI out of (Wilgys) posts"

But then immediately after goes,

then it can be indicative of the person playing in a wolf mindset

while saying something he's done that's wolfy. Saying, like, someone is null to you (the first paragraph), then going into "but here's something they've done that's wolfy actually, and I want them dead today" just reads so awful to me

Other random stuff I didn't like is like, her post earlier saying "I think this PoE from Mac was possibly made to wolf side,"

Which is such a weird sounding thought to begin with, but reading day 1 with that thought in mind I just go... really? Like, this Mac is making PoE's trying to hard wolf side?

He didn't do anything or push anything, and then a wolf died. I really don't think that's a wolf-siding Mac, wolf!Mac here is pretty obviously just doing nothing

I also disliked how disjointed SPF's EoD was. She threw out like.. 4 or 5 posts that were just paragraphs of her posting a thought, without much interaction. It all sounded rehearsed to me, too

I have the p403 is partnery from SPF I'm not gonna find it so there's that

Anyways what I was gonna write after all this is just stuff like, I think the gamestate rn is pretty bad just in the sense there's no real pushes and the votes on PoE are really consensus and basically no one cares, all the people who I see doing non-consensus stuff I think are town, and it's just not good imo

Current people I want to look into more are like, Marmot first of all, probably actually SPF second there, then Dizzy

Though this is a confusing amalgamation of people in terms of interactions but eh lmao

Again, esooa gives herself reasons to scumread Mac, but ends up townreading him. This time she acknowledges that this is how Mac would play the game out as a wolf.

i also find it kinda odd that you say mac usually tries to make himself get townread as a wolf by doing "off the cuff" stuff, and then note in the same paragraph that you townread the "spontaneity" of his wolfread on iaafr. isnt that exactly what youre arguing he would try to do as a wolf? this might be nitpicky but i dont really understand ur read on mac and it seems like the least fleshed out read in ur whole readslist, which kinda surprises me given (to my memory) you usually really like trying to sort out mac in games like this

I'm going to use another post because I can't help myself, responding to SPF

I guess I get what you mean about the Wilgy stuff, I mean, the specific idea that "Wilgy's posts individually were NAI but I was reading into his overall playstyle," but don't really think that's how the post comes across in how it's said

That could be partially though cause I realize now I mostly skimmed Wilgy day 1 and honestly got nothing out of his day 1 posts myself lmao, most my read on him was based on day 2. The words he was using were rly annoying to try to understand

So yeah to that

Your posts about Anne like, I mean I was being overly simplistic in the writing of it, but still, you say yourself that the reasons to wolf read her aren't like... thattt great. But she's been a wagon all day

That's also including I'm reminded that like

Both mason are defending her

And people just aren't biting

if you're town I'm probably not picking up stuff cause most this game has been played from me from behind

Both literally and figuratively in the sense that I had to backread an entire day before having the full context (while I've been kinda busy with work), and also just that I've been pretty annoyingly PoE'd because of the existence of an.. 11 poster

Who like, shouldn't even matter at this point

I mean, there's also just random dumb stuff like leetic getting angy I don't have a 100% solid list with exactly 3 wolves and everyone else town or whatever

In regards to the Mac stuff, what I mean by off the cuff posting is just like his typical snap read kinda things. Going "this person is mafia for this" and just saying random stuff

I usually read him by like, if I think he's just saying bullshit or if I actually like his snap reads

But this game my point is, he's doing none of that, and why not? imo as a wolf he wouldn't like, deter from acting like typical town!mac because what does that gain him here in terms of town reads? Is that really the best way to help his position? I don't think so,

And instead, he dropped a case, that I call spontaneous because there was a lot to it, it didn't seem to me to be something he just randomly posted. Like he had the thoughts before, and decided to post them then. So what I like about it isn't the similarities to the 'off the cuff' stuff, but the fact he had thoughts brewing that he didn't really feel the direct need to talk about. Similar to the stuff with his lovers chat, too.

hopefully explained that stuff well, but I'm kinda exhausted of writing all these larger posts after reading like 1000 posts lol

That being said though I mean, iaafr could just be right I'm being dumb about the game in general so idk

Kill who ever you want ig lol, my larger concern rly is just that like, I really doubt people's PoE's are actually solid and seems to be a lot of aversion to actually considering that the people in it might be town

meh

Esooa comes back to saying that Mac's behavior doesn't make sense for wolf!Mac, so he must be town. Like, esooa is changing her perception of what Mac's alignment could be based on his play without changing her read.

emagherd if you nerds just let this play out the way I wanted I'd be killed by mafia without trying which would be hilar

just pretend to townread me and we will go away and you won't have to worry about us anymore... amazing stuff!

Yeah but this is mafia so you should find wolves, not just survive.

if I can get myself killed by the mafia early when they're trying to get me mischopped that's more +ev for town than me making reads tbh

bruh

you can do both

I do like this post from esooa. Not enough to townread her, but she did call him out for his behavior here.

I just wish I could see intention in solving his alignment, because I don't.

Mac not being here is bad too

iaafr I guess got bonked for posting over the cap so lmao

I don't think this post is AI, but I don't know what it means.

falcon is resolved

What do you mean?

he is town

eh probably, but not resolved

how do you tihnk Falcon is town, but the best ? thing about chopping mac is you resolve your town read on an obvious town player

posts wolfily

I'll let you reread my post and look at the parenthesis instead of responding to your continued conf-biasing.

I literally do not know what it's supposed to mean if not that

You put the emphasis on best and worst in parathensis

Like I don't rly even care what you thought you meant when making that post it just generally doesn't make sense

If you're town reading Falcon, who is obvious town, why are you even putting "possibly the best"

esooa and I argue over the cons/benefits of chopping Mac in the waning moments of the day phase.

My point about the original post is that if Mac and falcon are both scum, resolving them is the best

If either one of them are scum, resolving them is the best. Why? We have to chop all the mafia anyway, falcon was always going to die for town to win this game.

If they're both town, it's the worst, because we lose two at once.

Also, falcon isn't automatically resolved before he dies, because we're assuming that they're lovers based on what they told us, it wasn't a guarantee. It was probably true, but they could have both. been scum and not lovers, or both town and playing a gambit. Long odds, but not guaranteed.

I didn't want to take the time to explain this at EOD because it would take too long.


I'm concerned that esooa was trying to pressure me in this dire moment into not voting Mac because it would mean killing my townread, falcon.

I am now voting Mac

vote: sloonei

Guys a wolf did u see his day 1

esooa votes Mac briefly before self-voting. I don't think this is AI for esooa, this is just funny content

Here's esooa's mentions/interactions with Mac in this game.

I think the worst thing for esooa here is that she made three consecutive takes on Mac that looked like this:

1) Mac's not trying to get townread, so he's probably a wolf
2) Mac sitting around doing nothing comes more from wolf!Mac than town!Mac
3) As wolf he wouldn't like, deter from acting like typical town!mac

Point number 2 came in the midst of giving him a townread anyway. It doesn't look like she's trying to solve his slot at all, more like she's trying to force a townread on him.


My conclusion is that a lot of this, including her final vote, is very partner indicative.

[Marmot]

Spoiler: show

can someone give me a scumread. as in write a scumread for me that i can use and vote on.

Mac's posts did nothing to me and felt like he was struggling to generate content

JJJ feels distinctly off - his posting isn't bad but lacks the town leadershipness. i think he's either mafia or some PR trying to survive

NAA feels less towny than last game though admittedly my eyes glazed over when i read a lot of their posts

there u go

---

also i just remembered MR's entrance felt kinda towny.

okay. im gonna go reread Mac and NAA posts since i didn't really get to read those in-depth.

Anne's first mention of Mac comes in the waning moments of Day 1, she runs off to look at NAA and Mac. She never actually looked into Mac before EOD, but she did look into NAA. I find this a little alarming, but not a lot, given the time factor of EOD, and that I think NAA was actually a wagon whereas Mac never was. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong on NAA being a wagon).

Okay, first of all it's impossible for me to engage with this thread when the majority of conversation happens at like 3 AM. Second of all, imma need you to take your votes off of me because it don't make no sense. I was distracted during the previous EOD and I actually went back and reread everything I missed from that, but unfortunately you guys posted up a storm today and I won't be at all re-reading that because it's too much.

So with that I say that we need to stop clearing everyone for "claims". Roles were randed before alignments in the setup so mafia could theoretically have any roles available to them. This isn't important to my point because I don't FOS anyone who has an open claim rn idt, but something to keep in mind. Second of all, I want Nutella to explain why she pushed me when I was not around and apparently continues to do so just based on my skimming? JJJ was extremely reluctant to TR me for a reason, because he knows I am town. Now if I had to guess, JJJ probably was townreading at least one of his buddies. I'd need to go back and reread his posts though to figure out exactly who he was townreading to begin with though.

Also iaafr keeps trying to shove me into a POE with NAA. We can't be teamed so you need to get over that, already your POE is flawed. The reason me and NAA can't be teamed is that if he were my partner I would not buss him and leave my vote up on him like that as mafia ever, it just doesn't happen. I am already anti-bussing to begin with, but I would not miss EOD as wolf knowing it's possible a partner goes over and do nothing to stop. Which is already a point in my favor why I can't be mafia with JJJ, but I acknowledge his wagon formed rather quickly so it doesn't really "count".

Anyways, I'm going to actually give some reads now. I think there was at least one mafia voting me at EOD, either Wigly or Nutella, maybe even both but might be unlikely due to JJJ's vote being on me. Cassandra is probably town for... emotional reasons I don't care to get into. Also she claimed her role for no reason which is rand v for her anyways. I think iaafr's approach to me today has been somewhat opportunistic and he won't even wait to see what I have to say at all, but I liked his day 1 so idk. Also I still think ilario/leetic are town, mostly cause of ilario now because I think leetic has dropped off. Also as I'm typing this, I'm wondering if it's possible Mac and Falcon are both mafia and share the same alignment similar to ilario/leetic? Anyways have a reads list

Ilario/Leetic
LimeCoke
Cassandra
Marmot
Mac
Dizzy
Falcon
SPF
iaafr
NAA
Nutella
Wigly

Not putting Esooa on the list because I haven't read a single one of her posts or Sloonei's posts.

Anne does consider Mac/falcon being a scum team together, but she put Mac pretty high on the list, so

And I do think Mac and Falcon can be the same alignment anyways, similar to Ilario/Leetic. I agree it's not 100%, but let's not ignore how weird it was for Mac to just come in and clear Falcon right away.

Also Mac flipping mafia would neither clear Falcon nor condemn him while the opposite is true, so idk mech stuff

I don't mind this take from Anne. I think she was the only one who really thought falcon was possibly scum.

I don't think voting Falcon before Mac matters because I think they both can be scum. You're trying to create an argument where there is none other than your preference to flip Mac first for mech reasons

Where did I suspect the mech clears? Please tell me, Nutella. All I said is that mech clears don't exist in this game as we typically know it, a factually true statement. If you want to suspect me then go right ahead, but don't make up things I never said.

I did near mech clears, yes I know there aren't real mech clears youal are entirely missing my point. The point is we are taking them as town for now and working with a poe and i think maybe you're not happy with that poe and want to expand it.

Sure I think Mac should be in the poe, but not falcon. Illeeric I think are most likely just town from play, it did cross my mind that it could be like a jekyll and hyde situation where one of them is actually mafia but that would be pretty bastard lol. Like I think leetics playstyle alone explains why he's so hard to work with and the way he grabs onto things is towny if aggravating.

Well, I had leetic as my strongest townread, so did you read my post? That's not what I meant when I said we shouldn't mech clear people, also I was referring to the opposite which would be Mac/Falcon sharing alignments. The POE right now is just me basically, so of course anyone I suspect would be "expanding" it and if you look closely at my post, if I was mafia trying to expand the POE then i didn't do a very good job with it.

I don't think voting Falcon before Mac matters because I think they both can be scum. You're trying to create an argument where there is none other than your preference to flip Mac first for mech reasons

Mac has claimed a green check on Falcon. This game is not bastard
If you think Falcon is scum, you vote Mac first

You not understanding this is incredibly wolfy to me

I don't automatically have perfect mech understanding 100% of the time

Hey alexa, vote anne already. You've been dancing around seriously scumreading her all game, you should commit atp.

Where did I suspect the mech clears? Please tell me, Nutella. All I said is that mech clears don't exist in this game as we typically know it, a factually true statement. If you want to suspect me then go right ahead, but don't make up things I never said.

I did near mech clears, yes I know there aren't real mech clears youal are entirely missing my point. The point is we are taking them as town for now and working with a poe and i think maybe you're not happy with that poe and want to expand it.

Sure I think Mac should be in the poe, but not falcon. Illeeric I think are most likely just town from play, it did cross my mind that it could be like a jekyll and hyde situation where one of them is actually mafia but that would be pretty bastard lol. Like I think leetics playstyle alone explains why he's so hard to work with and the way he grabs onto things is towny if aggravating.

Well, I had leetic as my strongest townread, so did you read my post? That's not what I meant when I said we shouldn't mech clear people, also I was referring to the opposite which would be Mac/Falcon sharing alignments. The POE right now is just me basically, so of course anyone I suspect would be "expanding" it and if you look closely at my post, if I was mafia trying to expand the POE then i didn't do a very good job with it.

The poe is really not just you lol. Sure it's technically possible mac and falcon are w/w but the way they explained the mech I think it is exceedingly unlikely. Falcon should be taken as near clear for now imo, it's optimal to go along with it etc

I don't think you understand what I meant, but apparently no one is so it's frustrating and I guess I didn't explain well. I didn't mean flip Falcon first before Mac or whatever, I was just trying to work out how their claim works in the thread.

Anne discusses this further with nutella and others wert Mac/falcon. I agree that Mac first was always the correct flip given the green check existence, but again, unless mafia was relying on Anne to deepwolf (or Mac), pushing in this direction regardless seems counterproductive.

I also firmly believe that nutella and Anne are anti-teamed, or at least not w/w,

like id rather vote mac at this point. i think falcon is scummy and he could be w/w with mac and mac isnt that townie either so like he can go

Eventually votes Mac (so she can kill falcon mostly).

Here are Anne's interactions/mentions with Mac.

Anne's take was very specific and kinda counter to what the thread was doing, but her actions were ultimately pro-town, and also despite pushing a different take, her take brought us to the same conclusion, so it's fine.

Her lack of mentioning or looking into Mac Day 1 was a little alarming.


Overall: I want to chop nutella first. If nutella flips wolf, I'm willing to take Anne as town until LYLO. Otherwise, I'll reconsider.

[iaafr]

It's clear that everything about the way you and I play mafia is completely opposing and it's impossible to communicate anything. Just know that I have a pretty high accuracy rate on the type of read ive had on anne this game netting scum. Could be wrong too but everyone else is literally just townier except maybe esooa and wilgy. Let's just go with the one bit of common ground we have today and flip esooa.

I mean, my way has had been more effective in the game thus far, but we'll see

you had a 1/3 poe we had at least 2/3 gg

[iaafr]

dizzy and nutella are OBVTOWN

no I will NOT substantiate

see u in postgame

[Marmot]

Spoiler: show

can someone give me a scumread. as in write a scumread for me that i can use and vote on.

Mac is scum is Mac. Let's get him.

Now that I've been established as town, and nobody disagree, I can definitely leave this D1 up to you all. Gl gl!

Fartlexicon

peepeepoopoo

I'm pretty ok with my vote on Mac tbh

peepeepoopoo

my wagon are all holding in farts on the bus

How dare you accurately describe me on my way to work every day

In a game like this, it's probably going to be hard to have good mafia reads tbh. The solution is to chop Mac, naturally.

LOLDAY1MACSCUMREAD

The parallel was that you came in and almost all your takes feel very consensus to me and easy reads to make. Your initial townreads were on the slots that were the most easiest slots to tr, iirc you had nutella as a tr but you said you haven’t read the game and Nutella wasn’t online when you were posting so I have no idea how you can tr a slot you supposedly haven’t read.,Your interactions with people, whilst fun and enjoyable to read doesn’t strike me as someone whose trying to solve anyone’s alignment when speaking to someone, rather just trying to vibe and survive.

First of all, I don't really know what the consensus reads are, since I haven't read much. Second, I town read Nutella for voting Mac, cause I don't think mafia Nutella votes Mac unless Mac is also mafia. They have some kind of special dynamic, if memory serves me right. Third, you're right that most of my interactions aren't trying to solve anyone. I'm pretty obviously not solving hard now, cause I don't feel like it. If I felt like it, I would read the game lol. Your read is very bad.

Fwiw I don’t think that’s true at all, I don’t remember a single case from you that game, but that could just be me misremembering since u snowed me. The point I specifically remember is when naa and marmot were trying to push me towards end of the game you pretty much popped up and more or less were like “sure lols why not” and then just voted me and went back to being afk.

Yeah, it's probably not relevant to get too deep into this discussions. What things looks like and what the intent is, are often two different things entirely. It's all wildly different to me though.

Yes and whilst that’s very true, I can’t know what you’re thinking unless you say it. You might have had brilliant reasons for all your trs this game and for your vote on Mac (and if you’re town I have no doubt that’s the case as you’re a brilliant player) , but I can’t know that unless you verbalize it. You have to see it from my point of view because it all looks the same to me unless you verbalize your thoughts and make it obvious what your intent is. It’s wildly different to you because you have tmi on your role card and what you’re thinking but I can’t figure any of that out unless you help me.

Sure. I don't have brilliant reasons at all. It's all impression and intuition at this point. If I had brilliant reasons, or at least nice sounding ones, I would probably be mafia lol. I do think my reason for town reading Nutella is pretty cool though. Don't know if it works, but I think she's kind of scared of Mac if she's mafia, so I don't think she goes out of her way to mess with him. So I made that read without having read a single Nutella post, so if it works, that's pretty cool.

This is an interesting take given that Mac is mafia. But ok, this is fine. I actually agree with it, but also since Mac has flipped mafia, it unfortunately doesn't say much about nutella. But I think it's a mildly good look for Dizzy.

Goof Mac is often mafia Mac though. When Mac don't know what to do, Mac be goofin. Mac can totally not goof and be town when town.

Dizzy continues to say stuff about Mac. Scumread stuff.

Someone said that Dizzy likes to wolfsweep. He does. I've been a victim of it several times this year (twice as town, once as host). So him hellbussing Mac Day 1, even if the reads are mostly silly, I think is a good look for Dizzy.

here it is again

Falcon and I randed neighbours
we have the same role
the role is to be able to alignment check the other one
I farted for 2 days cuz I am self resolving
Falcon posted without showing up so I checked him after 26 hrs

So if you rand this role and mafia, you are just outed D1 or possibly before the game even begins?

here it is again

Falcon and I randed neighbours
we have the same role
the role is to be able to alignment check the other one
I farted for 2 days cuz I am self resolving
Falcon posted without showing up so I checked him after 26 hrs

So if you rand this role and mafia, you are just outed D1 or possibly before the game even begins?

assuming the other person is town and snap uses it before me yes that is essentially what would happen

That sounds dumb

@falcon45ca Can you/did you confirm this mechanic?

Yes. Get yo dang votes off Mac

Why do you think he's town?

I don’t really know what else to say, but that just sounds like a terrible role.

The OP does state that all roles are independent of alignment and the setup was created with this in mind.

I think this sort of thing would be accounted for tbh, or at least I have raisins for thinking so.

Yes, I understand this. But what follows flatly from what Mac is saying, is that it's possible that you rand this role and your neighbour partner just outs you as mafia from the get go, if the rand was such that Mac is town and Falcon is mafia, or example. Which to me would be bastard. But I don't know what Cindy Kate thinks is ok or not. Or maybe something something I don't know the setup. But it just sounds like a really bad mechanic to me. Don't know what to do with that, other than if Mac is town, Falcon is definitely too.

@falcon45ca Can you/did you confirm this mechanic?

Yes. Get yo dang votes off Mac

Why do you think he's town?

If he wasn't, he wouldn't have checked me & got me into our chat

Huh?

From my understanding the chat already existed BEFORE he decided to check you. If that’s the case you need to clearly outline yours roles and the sequence of events that make him clear to you.

Falcon if you can do either of the following before eod I will consider easing up on mac:

-iso and give detailed reads on 3 poe slots
-properly catch up to the game and give us a summary of where you stand
-make a proper case for someone else who should be voted instead of Mac and why

Until either of that happens I will maintain the fact that I think mac used his ability in a suboptimal way. But as of rn if you are town you’re potentially a clear and doing almost nothing with it and just wasting it.

This but less words

If he wasn't, he wouldn't have checked me & got me into our chat

Why not? I understood it to be a mechanical part of your roles.

Why not what? Mac check me?


Mafia are alerted when one of us checks the other, tho our identity isn't revealed (haha, that worked out). Mac waited til I wasn't around for a chunk o' time, then checked me. Meanwhile, he was farting...which for Jay is a reason to lynch a player of Mac's calibre? Yeah, not buying it.

What is confusing to me is the wording "got me into our chat". Did Mac alert you in thread about the chat, or how did he get you in?

If he wasn't, he wouldn't have checked me & got me into our chat

Why not? I understood it to be a mechanical part of your roles.

Why not what? Mac check me?


Mafia are alerted when one of us checks the other, tho our identity isn't revealed (haha, that worked out). Mac waited til I wasn't around for a chunk o' time, then checked me. Meanwhile, he was farting...which for Jay is a reason to lynch a player of Mac's calibre? Yeah, not buying it.

What is confusing to me is the wording "got me into our chat". Did Mac alert you in thread about the chat, or how did he get you in?

He got TSP to message me and remind me of the chat.

I see. That makes more sense then. Because I didn't understand what you meant by Mac getting you into the chat, from what I read of Mac's account of the role.

I also think the criticism from Ilario (and others?) is pretty valid tbh. Cause why didn't Mac just ask that and wait for you to get there before making a decision? If I was town, I definitely would've waited, if I have all day. But that's me. I understand you disagree, but I don't think it's strange at all to question that tbh.

I mean, people disagree about how to use an ability, and that's fine.

Does it make Mac Maf?

No, and I'm not really saying that. I do think it's strange, but of course it can happen as town and mafia, sure. Haven't read many of Mac's posts, but if the vibe that it's mostly one liners, shallow takes and jokes, then that is something I associate with mafia!Mac.

@MacDougall What inspired you to vote me? Do you have an active read on me one way or another?

Can I get a brief summary of the main wagons so that I can attempt to weigh in on stuff?

The only one with actual clear reasoning is Mac's for questionable mech usage (but falcon is vouching for him). The rest are various shades of shrugs.

Questional mech usage is not the reason I've had to be vaguely suspicious of Mac. I just feel like he's doing the one liners shallow I'm so cool thing which he does a lot as scum. But then, I haven't actually read most of his posts, so I don't really know.

If I was to vote, I’d vote Mac tbh. Or Sloonei, but that’s unfair and definitely based on nothing

This whole progression gave me an almost unwavering townread of Dizzy.

Dizzy's vote for sleep on Day 1 was bad, but he was asleep when the day ended (probably) so whatever

he clearly doesn't know what to do which is >rand wolf for mac, it's early but significant imo

This is what I thought

so there's always a wolf between spf and dizzy so that's neat

also who the fuck is brad?

Why? I don't really scum read SPF tbh, but don't tell her that.

Also sick mind meld.

This was a weird Day 2 interaction though, after that Day 1 where Dizzy looked really good.

Town

falcon
iaafr
Lime coke
Nutella

Prob town but weh

Jay
spf
Marmot
wilgy
Axe

Haven't seen them post

Anne

Kill in

Dyslexicon
Cassandra
leetic

if I've missed anyone they're null too I guess

you can flip me now

*farts*

This was real bad I hope you have done better

God, I read slowly.

I read D1.

I don't know.

Town:
Calexa
Illeetic
Nutella
Falcon

Lighter town:
NAA
iaafr
Wilgy (But honestly, thinking that shooting the IC is a good shot smells like town justifying themselves psychologically to me kind of maybe. Wouldn't be surprised if Wilgy is just town. Also Jimmay kind of lightly spewed them town. Actually fuck it, I'm moving Wilgy to lighter town)

Not quite sure would like words about:
Marmot
SPF
Lime

PoE:
Mac
Anne
Esooa

---

I will probably explain at some point, if it's not already in my ISO.

I wish it was not 4.30 am here, cause I kind of want to know what Mac has been up to since D1, cause his D1 sucked in my humble opinion. As did mine, but I'm gayer.

[VOTE: Mac] aubergine

peepeepoopoo

Oh, nobody else was voting Mac.

We have returned to our regularly scheduled program.

Here are Dizzy's interactions/mentions of Mac

Dizzy didn't actually vote for Mac in the end, but his progression and persistence on Mac is too damn convincing and townie. My only concern is that Mac was an expendable slot given that it would kill a townie too, but even then, Dizzy does look like he tried to solve the slot imo.

Based on my read of him here, I stopped going through his ISO, I have him as town now.

[Marmot]

dizzy and nutella are OBVTOWN

no I will NOT substantiate

see u in postgame

I don't agree on nutella, sorry.

I'll finish going through mac spew before I come to a solid conclusion, but my current rankings for me are:


Dizzy
Anne

------ large gap --------

nutella
esooa

[Marmot]

@iaafr I'm open to talking about it, I just don't find nutella's progression on Mac very convincing.

But I have to leave for now, going rock climbing will be back this evening.

[nutella]

dizzy and nutella are OBVTOWN

no I will NOT substantiate

see u in postgame

tru


@ marmot, i never hard defended mac lol what. yeah i hedged on him a bit but mostly thought he was more wolfy than not, just got a bit hung up on how he framed the mech stuff. i was one of the first to wolfread him d1, and while he had some more substantial content d2 and the mech made me unsure, i still had some glimmers of "he's probably just wolfing" that was strongest when i placed that vote. but yes i didn't vibe with spf's reasoning for pushing him, later i dropped the spf suspicion because i was feeling better about her and i said as much. i remember when i made the comment about the spf/mac interaction i actually thought that w/w was the least likely pairing and that it was somewhat more unaligned. spf's hard push on mac at eod is in her bussing range i think, but holistically i have her as >rand unaligned with mac

anyway mac tmi'd me town multiple times and treaded lightly around me. i think esooa's treatment of me d2 was pretty similar, and i'm at like 99% confidence she just flips wolf here, i really struggle to imagine what the solve would be if she doesn't

this obviously hasn't been among my strongest town performances but i will fight to not be the only mischop in this game

[Marmot]

Glimmer reads!

[nutella]

Oh I'm not the only one sensing JJJ being off, good to know. The dude forgot how to wolf.

Is it weird that I TR leetic and SR ilario :/

wait you guys call it btsc here right

sorry for the cultural imperialism

Oh yeah, we have a pinned message in our btsc to call jjj weird and bus him

I thought Mac was tying to overtake Epignosis as the all-time leader in Syndicate Wins lol.

Let's see, maybe he'll make it happen this game.

anyway im rereading this section of the thread and having sudden paranoia of a hellbussing ultradeepwolf marmot situation

like it's possible to read a lot of this stuff as tmi and like the super crazy tinfoil read is like one or both of illeetic is maf too lmao wouldnt that be wild

just gonna post this and move on and continue with regularly scheduled poe solving but if the game gets to like f5 remember this

[nutella]

i still thought marmot's claim was sketchy too, and it's really not out of the realm of possibility that he used his tiebreak to bus and get "cleared"


call me out for expanding the poe or whatever just covering my bases for postgame cred

[nutella]

im confbiasing myself more and more into this lol i should stop but let me just get this thought out: clearing marmot for breaking the tie onto mac is officially more naive and stupid than clearing anne for being the cw

[nutella]

wolves do gambits like that all the time and marmot had been sufficiently distanced from mac etc etc also dizzy and i both wolfread him for a while etc etc ok im leaving

[Dyslexicon]

Ok, I have some hours. I hate not being caught up, so I don't know why I think it will be cool to skip D1. But I'll try to skim D2 and read D3.

One thing I do think now, and I know there's debate about, is that I still think Nutella is town. I'll see if I still feel this way getting more into things. I think she's shown lack of TMI and been generally towny tbh, and "voting wrong" is definitely not a good scum case for her imo. Buuuut we'll see

[Lime Coke]

I'm back for a second I read through again and I can't read this game without feeling like absolute shit.

@ilario FYI NAA got green checked by Rabbit so if he's town then NAA is probably just town.

@nutella I don't get how you don't just nail scum!Mac the entire time when you've probably played way more games with him and probably have a better read on him than me.
Like I don't get how you say he's towny Day 2 when he literally flip flopped his read on you right in front of your face as you changed your read and I brought it up.

[iaafr]

naa didn't get green checked he got flipped green lmao I killed him

[Dyslexicon]

naa didn't get green checked he got flipped green lmao I killed him

Oh. Lol.

[nutella]

I'm back for a second I read through again and I can't read this game without feeling like absolute shit.

@ilario FYI NAA got green checked by Rabbit so if he's town then NAA is probably just town.

@nutella I don't get how you don't just nail scum!Mac the entire time when you've probably played way more games with him and probably have a better read on him than me.
Like I don't get how you say he's towny Day 2 when he literally flip flopped his read on you right in front of your face as you changed your read and I brought it up.

i don't have a perfect godread on him or something

also i didn't say he's towny i said something he was doing was in his townrange

i mostly called him scummy just was unsure

if i was w/w with him i'd probably have pushed harder on it

[iaafr]

I'm back for a second I read through again and I can't read this game without feeling like absolute shit.

@ilario FYI NAA got green checked by Rabbit so if he's town then NAA is probably just town.

@nutella I don't get how you don't just nail scum!Mac the entire time when you've probably played way more games with him and probably have a better read on him than me.
Like I don't get how you say he's towny Day 2 when he literally flip flopped his read on you right in front of your face as you changed your read and I brought it up.

consider Anne didn't nail scum Alexa and Chloe didn't nail scum katze in spec chat


sometimes having extensive meta and personal pressure to get it right and being in the position of "if they're town being slanky and scummy I might be one of the only ones who could see it" can make it harder to get the right read

[Lime Coke]

A shot rings out

NAA is dead, he was David Hume, TOWN role cop.

I never saw this.

@ilario

NotAnAxehole is already dead so pick someone else.

[iaafr]

oh wait he was the rolecop lmao he was the one who could've confirmed me if I popped another town that's so funny

but if we tinfoil me to the point of yeeting me we deserve to lose

[Dyslexicon]

I don't like that shot though. I don't like using shots at all tbh, they've been bad. Reminds me to look for the reasoning Wilgy shot Radish, when he was clearly hinting at a clearing role

[iaafr]

I was a bit hasty and I thought it would come as a redcheck instead of a green kill (it's a loyal dayvig)

but yea apologies

[Dyslexicon]

I think Nutella would go harder after Mac if she had TMI. I think the line of "Why didn't you vote Mac" is incredibly faulty. He was farting and non-playing, so I don't really expect his teammates to feel bad bussing him. A lot of the time town just do dumb stuff and act against their instincts. I'm getting way ahead of myself in case I disagree with myself later, but But mafia just feels like a bad take to me.

[Dyslexicon]

I was a bit hasty and I thought it would come as a redcheck instead of a green kill (it's a loyal dayvig)

but yea apologies

Bad Rabbit.

[Dyslexicon]

I'm forgetting this is a post cap game.

[Esooa]

EVERYONE THAT ARGUE THAT IM GOOD OR EVEN DECENT AT THIS GAME SHOULD BE KILLED ASAP.

I TAKE PRAISE IN BEING BOTTOM OF BARREL AND IM NOT GOOD AT THIS.[/SIZE]

Do not let anyone say that I'm capable of being a good player as suss reasons ever!

I made other arguments and you poopooed those too

But yeah I agree, "you are good at mafia" is impossible to defend against.

that's a copy pasta