Philosophy Mafia 2: Electric Boogaloo

[ilario]

honestly iaafr you coming into today wolf reading me was one of the most demotivating things this game lol

i kinda wanna tr this

[ilario]

I isod top wagon quickly and I don’t see any problems with esooas posts @Marmot @nutella @Dyslexicon can you all please @ me with why ur voting esooa and how confident you are in the flip being a wolf

[Dyslexicon]

I isod top wagon quickly and I don’t see any problems with esooas posts @Marmot @nutella @Dyslexicon can you all please @ me with why ur voting esooa and how confident you are in the flip being a wolf

I don't have a ready thought through reply. Just got home. But I actually prefer Anne to Esooa tbh. I'm going to eat dinner and then start the reading of D3 now.

[Lime Coke]

Alright well at this rate I don't know what to do because I had a clear cut scumread on someone days 1 and 2 that lead to mafia getting voted off.

Unfortunately I don't have that scumread today and I'm in line to just let whatever happen to happen.

I'm more than likely going to miss most of EOD today. So town can do whatever it wants without me in the way.

[Lime Coke]

Hopefully I'll be here during Day 4 and I'll play accordingly to what happens at EOD.

[nutella]

I isod top wagon quickly and I don’t see any problems with esooas posts @Marmot @nutella @Dyslexicon can you all please @ me with why ur voting esooa and how confident you are in the flip being a wolf

are you sure you read the right iso

[nutella]

ilario fueling my tinfoil if esooa flips town thats tmi

[Dyslexicon]

I tried to take pressure off Mac?

I said his claim was shit from the get go and wanted him gone.

I don't think you actually ever said much about Mac's claim. At least I can't find that in your ISO. You did say that Mac was scum though.

I just see no reason to not resolve it, but Esooa works still.

This is about Jimmay's post on Nutella/iaafr reaction. Why do you want to resolve it and what do you mean by "resolve"? Iaafr is now resolved since he's confirmed. Does that make Nutella mafia to you?

The more falcon talks the more I want to yeet mac for putting us this in this situation lol. The dude just tricks falcon into tunneling whoever mac fosses and falcon looks like the bad guy tho in his head he’s convinced they’re his own reads. Honestly it’s kinda smart by mac. And he could be doing it as town but so far the pushes he’s tricking falcon into tunneling for him are all bad.

Taken the words right out of my mouth.

Falcon would be an instant vote rn if it wasn't for Mac.

This post just bugs me. First of all, I don't know how Wilgy's post is even an answer to what Ilario says. Ilario's post is kind of creepy lol. The "Taken the words right out of my mouth" to a post about how Mac is tricking Falcon feels kind of tmi to me.

if anne was the designated scum mischop yesterday, then why did mac aggressively try to rally votes away from anne and toward NAA?

if anne was the designed scum mischop but mac did not push on anne, then who are the wolves that pushed on anne?

im not even calling anne a wolf - just trying to work out if the logic of: "anne was a counterwagon to the wolves, so she's clear" holds up to some logical scrutiny

Thank fuck. I have no idea why Anne is supposedly cleared for being a cw both days. Jimmay voting Anne D1 does not clear her either. She was already a top wagon at that point if I'm not mistaken, and Jimmay wasn't doing too hot himself. It makes perfect sense if scum wants to distance or bus at that point.

Also, only me and Nutella are non-confirmed town on the D2 Anne wagon. I'm pretty certain Nutella is town. That makes the whole wagon clean, whether you like that or not. At the very least, unless you believe the scum team is exactly me and Nutella, then at least one mafia was voting elsewhere. I know for a fact at least one was, and I'm almost certain they both were.

I'm looking at Anne's actual play up against everyone else here. She's basically doing the same thing as Mac afaic. She's pretty much non-playing, and sometimes gives fleeting reads without much depth to them. I don't have much experience with Anne, but I don't see that as clearing, and I have reason to town read most other players in the game.

I don't know if Anne is scum. It certainly wouldn't surprise me. She was not a mafia pushed wagon on D2.

I should just let Anne get flipped so she can flip green then I can kill both Rabbit and Nutella.

I just played a game where someone said this exact same thing about certain players, only to find that the player he wanted to flip green flipped mafia instead.

---

Reading the start of D3 was kind of rough, but my PoE is the same. Anne, Wilgy and Esooa.

I didn't find Esooa's play very towny this phase, except maybe the post Ilario pointed out.
She seems to lack focus a bit, and I don't like her push on either Nutella or Marmot.

Wilgy is also not doing shit.
And Anne is not doing shit.
You know who else wasn't doing shit, comparatively to what we expect? Mac and Jimmay.

[nutella]

yep^

[Dyslexicon]

youre very clever trying to group yourself in with nutella in my townreads :P i do think that both of you have been very towny but i think that nutella is townier than you tbh - that is largely because nutella has done more stuff in this game that i perceive as Hard To Fake than you have, and most of my reasons to townread you boil down to tone/sincerity, and that really isnt enough to justify having you as a townread at this stage of the game

Well, yes, that was tongue in cheek. I'm not sure how much this matters right now, but want to respond anyway. I'm surprised that most of your reasons to townread me boils down to toan/sincerity. First of all, I don't believe that is a good way to read me in the first place. Second, I feel there's actual concrete and observable things in thread that are good reasons to read me right. Me calling out Mac immediately and sticking with the pressure based on just the vibes. I'm pretty sure that was one of the first things and only things I cared about D1, as far as I cared. I don't have a history of putting needless pressure/attention on teammates if I don't need to, and I wouldn't need to as mafia. I also have swept as mafia with Mac before. It also doesn't make sense if you think I did do that, that I would not follow through when Mac was getting a lot of pressure and was probably not going to last long anyway. The way I've been struggling quite a bit should show that I don't have TMI about this game. I'm very prone to being uncertain, and yes, I've struggled to get into this game, but actually, my first solve from reading D1 is probably pretty good (I hope (as iaafr pointed out)). And then I doubted. Ended up sheeping Calexa, which was more comfortable to me. But it's towny and certainly not scummy for me. I also feel like I'm showing actual solving and an actual want to solve the game, and I think that is pretty clearing too. I probably shouldn't expect you to totally clear me, but reading me on toan is probably a mistake in the first place. Except maybe parts of where I react to Leetic. Which is another reason to town read Nutella as well btw.

[Dyslexicon]

Spoiler: show

Wasin the working; Happening the here?

Ha, yeeting Mac; What of Mac is the case?

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/search.ph ... 7&sr=posts

this is mac's iso link

you'll see what i mean if you skim through it wilgy

Thanks

Hmmm...

Notting of aligning; Goof but not wolf.

Ising of Mac the makin of easy yeet; Notting of the knowing yet.

Goof Mac is often mafia Mac though. When Mac don't know what to do, Mac be goofin. Mac can totally not goof and be town when town.

Dizzy, you correct.

Wasing of time to telling; Ising of resolving but not yet.

I've scammed with Mac, and he never once farted.



I'd think he'd be less full of frivolity if he were scum

Ising the voting of [VOTE: Falcon] aubergine; Of the shit.

falcon is town

Tell the why?

honestly does mac have a role where he has to keep talking about farts for no reason or is he just mafia

This is tough because I have no idea how to read Mac when he's fucking around this much.

fine I'll be serious for a minute...

Wasing of Mac the goofing; Ising of heating; Nowing the serious really?

Coward.

Notting of Mac, Falcon the trusting; My vote away.

NAA's case?

Wilgy's Day 1 was confusing to say the least. I haven't the easiest time parsing his posts, he did talk a fair but about Mac too. My understanding is he sussed Mac early, than trusted him after claim.

Bruh I already shot lol

well i mean with votes too

if you end up flipping nutella villager today pls locktown me and sheep my poe

Ez.

I'm also down with a Mac flip.

Idk, that JJJ yeet was solid. I think I did a good job clearing a slot that would cause us trouble at least in terms of PoE.

Get how I'll need to be pulled out of PoE eventually, but for now Nutella or Mac I wanna know.

On to Day 2, Wilgy wants to flip Mac immediately.

You didn't even read it

[VOTE: Falcon] aubergine

If it's any consolation, I read it and appreciate the effort. While I don't think it changes much in terms of your position for me.

Nutella, Mac and I suppose Dizzy all need to resolve before you RN just on JJJ spew and the advent of yesterday. Again, because I wasn't a counter yeet, either scum was asleep or you aren't scum.

Anyways, your alignment would have reflect of Nutella flip. I believe that to be more important rn.

The more falcon talks the more I want to yeet mac for putting us this in this situation lol. The dude just tricks falcon into tunneling whoever mac fosses and falcon looks like the bad guy tho in his head he’s convinced they’re his own reads. Honestly it’s kinda smart by mac. And he could be doing it as town but so far the pushes he’s tricking falcon into tunneling for him are all bad.

Taken the words right out of my mouth.

Falcon would be an instant vote rn if it wasn't for Mac.

And he continues to push his worldview where nutella, Mac, and maybe Dizzy are next in line to get yeeted. He was right about Mac, so I'm inclined to trust it for now.

Ok Wilgy is towny when he drops the gimmick

Tbh I thought Mr was a bad shot because I had him as town, I think shooting the main CW (Anne) wouldve been correct there, though I wouldn't have cried about a Mac shot.

Fair then. I still haven't really read day 1, but it was JJJ's iso that led me to MR.

My suspicion on Nutella kept me from inquiring the CW. Anne is locktown if Nutella flips scum yes?

Mac was going to take our time regardless of if it was my shot or a yeet.

PoE is pretty straightforward:
Mac, Nutella, Dizzy, Esooa

Falcon will be added if Mac flips red. Anne will be added if Nutella flips green, NAA will be added if Esooa flips red.

Contest me on these 50/50s plz.

I don't know if we win if Ilario, Iaafr, Leetic, Marmot, SPF or Cass is scum without some mechanical savior button.

And this keeps going. Now esooa is added, but a POE of 4 with two wolves left and 2 misyeets is just fine.

Spoiler: show

agreed that alexa and LC are town

i agree that occam's razor points to falcon just being a villager, although im reluctant to clear him specifically because of mac's claim because mac has a recent history of hard shielding and hard defending one of his partners and trying to go to endgame from it (that game where he was wolf with kane and twice shrunk). even so, i agree that there's a higher probability that falcon is town than not

i think that you're clearing anne, NAA, and esooa too easily. do you have any reasons to townread anne beyond her being "fine"? i agree that some of her posts on d1 were towny, but we're at a stage of the game where that isn't a good enough reason to townread someone. i also don't agree with you that NAA's reaction was towny

also, i fundamentally disagree with your reasoning for townreading the esooa slot and i think it's a weird thing to read into. we know for a fact that sloonei was very busy IRL throughout d1, and i think it's weird to assume that he would have magically gotten more free time and ability to post if he had rand'd wolf with jagged - that doesn't seem like a reasonable or logical assumption to make, and i think it's the type of reasoning that will get you burned incredibly easily. i also think that esooa sounds tonally stiff in a way that i have NEVER seen from her in a mafia game before, so i'm not sure what to do with that

how am I tonally stiff

*Concern*

wilgy vote someone else

Sure thing dad.

[VOTE: Nutella] aubergine

Mac tells Wilgy to vote someone else. Whatever, it's funny.

I'm here for a brief moment before further holiday driving.

I see Anne is the lead wagon. Neat. Doesn't make sense to me, but I won't cry about it. Still comfortable with either a Nutella or Mac yeet.

Ho boi. You fuckers are too much. Can't keep up but you are making me doubt my Iaafr read now.

I'm back to 50/50 on the Nutella Iaafr thing.

Why aren't we just yeeting Mac tho?

Fuck fuck fuck.

I can't think this fast. @leetic explain why Mac is a bad idea.

[VOTE: iaafr] aubergine

Alright I'm back on Mac.

I'm torn on Iaafr and Nutella, but at least I like the Mac yeet without that contention.

So like. If I'm wrong on Anne that makes Nutella hard town, making Iaafr hard scum.

Mac killing Falcon on yeet is a risk I'm willing to take 100% of the time. Mostly because it's funny regardless of flip that Falcon would get cheesed like that IF TRUE.

We hit EOD. Wlgy engages with iaafr about Mac. Still pushing the nutella/Mac world.

Here's DrWilgy's interactions/mentions of Mac.


Probably the biggest problem I have with Wilgy is that he was toooo certain that Mac was scum, almost on a tmi level. I do think it looks good that he had this read from Day 1, and it couldn't strictly be a gambit pulled on Day 2.

I'm inclined to believe that Wilgy is town, because he was right about Mac, and his worldview has aligned with my own since the beginning of Day 2. Is that a reason to townread someone? I dunno. I don't feel like I should fully question my reads until my scumreads are proven completely wrong.

I also felt that Wilgy was maybe too certain of Mac as well. Wilgy doesn't post a lot of reasons for why he has the reads or views that he has in any case.

Reading back on Jimmay's post on Wilgy. At first I read it as maybe tmi that Wilgy is town, but I don't think I can really read into it like that or that it's wise to do so:

I’m not sure any chop on the board is a bigger shrug than Wilgy. I have no read. Folks newer to him should be aware though that his general approach to this game isn’t atypical of what I know of DrWilgy. This is what he do

[Dyslexicon]

and btw if mac and falcon are w/w then i was right. there is no world where falcon plays the game he does as town and there is no world in which mac, who by most accounts is a strong scum player, would feel the need to clear falcon, a valuable mischop for mafia unless they are partnered as falcon is known to have a considerably weaker wolf game. it would not surprise me if the entire role was faked, but i admit the lover aspect to this makes it less likely

Anne, why does the lover aspect of the role make this theory less likely to you? Couldn't the lover aspect also just be made up?

and btw if mac and falcon are w/w then i was right. there is no world where falcon plays the game he does as town and there is no world in which mac, who by most accounts is a strong scum player, would feel the need to clear falcon, a valuable mischop for mafia unless they are partnered as falcon is known to have a considerably weaker wolf game. it would not surprise me if the entire role was faked, but i admit the lover aspect to this makes it less likely

To be clear: This does not make sense to me. If you would not be surprised that the entire role was faked, why do you assume the lover part to be true anyway?

@anne Can you answer this concern?

Everyone ignored it, and I don't know if it's one of those things only I find interesting again. But I really do.

[nutella]

dizzy goat anne maf leetic clown

[Marmot]

Spoiler: show

Can I get a brief summary of the main wagons so that I can attempt to weigh in on stuff?

The only one with actual clear reasoning is Mac's for questionable mech usage (but falcon is vouching for him). The rest are various shades of shrugs.

Should we be skeptical of the five people who are voting for axehole for shadey shrugs?

I want to ask about mac's questionable mech usage, but I don't want to force anyone to waste posts explaining something to me that probably has an easily searchable answer, but if someone doesn't mind doing that I would appreciate it.

This was Sloonei's only mention of Mac. It could be a way of acknowledging him while asking people to not engage him with it. Weird.

iaafr looking bad on votes is good actaully

Can you read Mac's iso and tell us what it means? He stunk Day 1.

not rn

Esooa says she won't iso mac when I asked her to after subbing in.

This post looks town to me for reasons I don’t want to get into. The EM gang or others should say if they feel this is not a post to be town read.

leetic/ilario are probably my top town read.

lol Jay wolfing

I guess I think nook and jay are v/v now lmao

ok ur town lol

Why

Do me a favour and just ignore my presence until I do things that matter k?

these look unaligned to me btw

Not rly

Disagrees when iaafr calls Mac and JJJ unaligned. This post feels more contrarian than anything.

Can I see a defense against the points people are making against you? I know you've only been here a short time but you still found time to tinfoil like four separate people, it's the least you could do

No

Yeah you're full of shit. [VOTE: Esooa] aubergine Even my previous point for you can be rescinded given nutella's interaction, and you have not given me one indication you are town. nutella's still scummier but I would not mind going after this.

Your previous points are about Sloonei, lmfao

90% of the rest are "PoE cause they subbed in "

The only existing not-that reasons are Alexa going off because I didn't agree with her, and SPF saying that I am slightly tonally off in whatever way, I forgot

Extremely cringe

You have tried to go after me for basically no reason other than "wallpost", you've tried shading Mac with no explanation, you have a hedgy and overly convoluted nutella defense, nutella has given a number of strong indications of being partnered with you, I don't even care about Sloonei at this point because the evidence against you is so much stronger.

I'm gonna tell you why this post is really fucking awful then leave

You're doing the same shit people do every game someone subs in where you think because my reads aren't the equivalent of other day 2-esque reads they're bad, and it's stupid

I never shaded Mac and to even try to call it that is AWFUL

I COMPLETELY VALIDLY said his interactions that Iaafr quoted are not good for him

Mac is literally one of the best people at making good w/w interactions I know

He has literally made a partner die because he randomly RT'd a red on them and they responded poorly

I did not hedge on my Nutella defense, I explained my thoughts irt to the post

Partially too because it was something I was feeling earlier, and then remember that's just a part of Nutella, and it's probably towny overall

The "Nutella is partnered with you" thing is really just pointless

Thnx tho, later now

I don't believe esooa ever tried to shade Mac, so I do believe she's right about that point.

Mac is good at making w/w interactions, that is also a good point.

There aren't any reads on Mac here, but this post is fine overall. I can definitely understand esooa's frustration upon entering the game the way she did (or really, the way anyone does). No one gave her a chance to ease into the game, myself included.

I'm pretty sure nanook is exactly the kill Mac would make btw

This exactly the post I made at EOD lmao.

mac's green is probably just fake cause they're lovers

mac do you know iaafr

esooa you know me better than to think that I'd make a d1 play like that with a teammate

... yes?

if you're a wolf the green obviously isn't valid

if you're town I don't really think it is

I'm town reading falcon regardless

given the mafia got alerted when i checked falcon there's guaranteed to be a mafia voting me with the way that I was playing because they know it's 2 for the price of 1

what lol

esooa you know me better than to think that I'd make a d1 play like that with a teammate

... yes?

if you're a wolf the green obviously isn't valid

if you're town I don't really think it is

I'm town reading falcon regardless

you think that I would gambit day 1 on fake green checking my teammate?

no, my point was if your a wolf the check literally isn't relevant anyways

so the statement only means anything if you're town

This interaction I think looks reasonable for esooa until the end

mac is probably just town actually

not cause of anything he's posted recently but I think if he's a wolf solving in lover chat and stuff, he just puts that activity in thread instead of like flopping about

like if he's already solving and putting energy into the game I can't see the motivation to not use that to get town read more as a wolf

This read doesn't make sense to me. I feel like esooa gave herself reasons to scumread Mac, but ended up with a townread based on how she assumes Mac would play the game.

But I don't blame her for the assumption. Mac did feel like he was flailing, and that was a portion of why I had trouble scumreading him, he wasn't trying to control the game.

Spoiler: show

Finished reading day 1. I'm kinda tired of reading posts so I skimmed/wasn't absorbing much of the EoD, but should be fine

anne - will talk about more after, generally pretty whelmed by her posts but I've liked it more than not. The biggest thing for me was her SPF read about big posts, where she posted it going like "the scummiest thing about spf is her post size," was pressured on it and said it wasn't really serious, then after being pressured a little more explains the read with like 2 decent paragraphs. It's a read that I've had on SPF before too so I kinda understand it, but mostly I think the treatment of shirking on the read by saying it's not really serious but actually having the opinion (cause she explained it and seemed decently serious) makes me think it's just genuine, it's something I've felt a lot where I'm like "yeah I don't really want to give this read cause people won't like me for it so it's just kinda a joke"

cassandra - Talked about for the most part, I thought while reading EoD briefly that her thread positioning fits a wolf who's just kinda riding consensus (which I do think is a problem right now) which also would involve going with the flow and bussing JJJ day 1, but her posts really just don't read like a bus. Even if Alexa was intending to deep wolf this game which isn't really implausible imo, I doubt she ever goes out of her way to get a partner killed when he wasn't really in contention that EoD until she talked about him a lot

DrWilgy - honestly got close to nothing from his day 1 posts. He's posted a few decently lucid thoughts this day phase that I liked, but I don't really know how he plays as wolf. Everything I've seen from him seems in line with his town games from before, though. The biggest problem I have with him is mostly other peoples posting about him, lol. People saying "the MR shot was good for him"

Like, it was on a towny, and it's not rly like he's just going to out to shoot someone outer PoE imo. Radishes is also someone who can contribute pretty well but is also a low accountability kill, like I think it's a scummier kill than not tbh.

Though I just remembered specifically his posting about calling Anne town, that was pretty good and I generally agree with the thoughts, would add those to my reasons to town read Anne

Dyslexicon - Liked their vibes but their recent reads list really pinged me

They read all of day 1 and just dropped a PoE going "Mac Anne Esooa" and it made me really just go like

This is actually just the consensus PoE for the past 24 hours and no one has cared, like hello pls why is this a thing

Particularly don't like it irt mostly in annoyance because I think I'm PoE only for being a sub, but I think it's a pretty good demonstration of what I mean. I have 88 posts in 24 hours already and I still feel like I'm being treated as a nothing slot and nobody really cares that much about my placement, the people who really do I think are decently likely town regardless. And the same thing is being done with Mac/Anne where they're just... existing as PoE and nothing is being done about it. No one's being pushed, Anne has been decently wagoned but there's no one really convicted she's a wolf, it's just kinda like.. yeah she's vaguely scummy, and votes are just placed on her

I think especially because I'm town and no one is taking any interest in movement it decently raises the others chances of being town, btw, but I digress, going back to Dizzy;

The way they engaged with the reads just felt shitty and made the thread state particularly hit me. They read day 1, which like yeah that's good, but then afterwards just dropped their fully consensus PoE with no real interest in actually solving these slots. I've posted around Dizzy a few times and liked that we had similar thoughts, but they don't even seem to have registered that fact. They said "Mac's day 1 was pretty lackluster, hope he picks it up day 2," but doesn't talk about or investigate his day 2 at all. The drive to solve from Dizzy just feels non-existent and I really didn't like it

I was gonna say their recent clap back against Illario was good, though, mostly for it feeling like a kinda towny "get the fuck off me," while I think wolf Dizzy would indeed be more of a smooth talker/etc, but I dunno I'm feeling they're decently wolfy now, prob just going to say they're null becuase idk about the Marmot interactions and think Marmot is decently wolfy

falcon45ca - Pretty confident he's town, like very. Green checked by Mac which I agree isn't ever w/w (his wolf equity probably actually increases if Mac is town cause I still kinda feel like the check is fake) but mostly has just been genuinely towny in giving like, hard hitting reads lol, as in when he explains his wolf reads they just have good conviction, and he pushes on things with determination the way he does as town, etc.

iaafr - Probs town. Had some slight paranoia from reading EoD he could be a wolf because his JJJ vote seemingly came out of no where, but I possibly just don't remember his previous stance on JJJ. I think the way he flip flopped on the read still is good but doubtfully hard clearing just cause I've pointed out this thing before and there's enough people with "iaafr meta" that I think he'd possibly be aware enough to try and subvert it like he did, more leaning to town still though. Generally just based on vibes, way he's posting, so I don't have a specific "this is town" thing from him. Some random thoughts on him I put down cause why not are that I actually did really like the way he approach SPF, he mentioned to me in DM's recently that he thinks SPF has very AI openers, and without me in the game too he brings out this read in specific about SPF, paying specific attention to her opener. Another thing I liked was the way he defended Nutella but didn't want to commit to it mostly because it reminds me of his thoughts about Limestone from a previous game, though I'm kinda eh on that particular read as the days gone longer

ilario/leetic - getting town vibes from both atm. Leetic is funny to me but the way he's pushing things seems more like a towny committed to their processes than a wolf trying to be obtuse to sow division, particularly got this feeling around EoD1. I haven't cared to read either much but Illario has just been really towny imo. Approach to NAA was good, like saying a player is mafia because they're town siding too much. Biggest thing I have in his favor was from EoD1 when he was like "why is (x person, I forgot) a wagon, I hope I get night killed."

Classic Illario town moment

Lime Coke - honestly haven't really been trying to solve him at all. His recent posts about "this day phase is weird" have made me :? slightly because he's mentioned it a few times but hasn't even talked about and is just... saying it. I also just kinda find the posts funny because NAA was saying he always goes into lost mode as town mid-game lmao but yea. People are generally reading him town, I'm fine with it don't care, if he lives another day or two will just ISO then and be able to get a decently confident read probably

MacDougall - think Mac is more likely town than not. Usually when I see him try to dig himself out of holes as mafia he does it more so trying to emulate his town style. Posting reads off the cuff, throwing his ego around, kinda thing. He's done some of the ego stuff but not as much, and the biggest response to pressure from him was just writing a big iaafr case that I liked the spontaneity of and I don't particularly think he'd be casing iaafr here as a wolf cause just.. why

Tbh, thinking this is less strong of a reason than I had in my head now that I write it out though. I do agree that sitting around doing nothing comes from wolf Mac a lot more often than town Mac, too, so yeah.

Marmot - I've explained this one, already wrote enough in this post. Kinda having doubts about him mostly because of volume, I don't really know how capable he is of that as a wolf, but like, I don't really like the way most of his volume is made anyways tbh. It's all very disconnected, and especially when he explains his previous thoughts they're very empty. Like, when I asked him about the Nutella stuff, he gave very generic reasoning for the posts I quoted... but also didn't mention the thought processes going into some of his posts he made about Nutella around that time that I *didn't* quote

And like, if he's actually going thought his thought processes, it feels weird he wouldn't talk about that? Or just have more going on in general, tbh

I kinda thought his response to pressure earlier was wolfy, I don't know how much I care about that now. Not much but I may as well mention

Basically he was pretty aggro about wolf reads on him, calling them really bad, but then he immediately switched into like, cooperative mode, going "I don't think this day phase has been going in a good direction for town, we need to come together to fix the problem." It just felt skeevy but meh

NotAnAxehole - I think he's had a few towny posts but I'm going back and forth on him. I guess he's PoE, but not really a priority at all. His post earlier about me not having thoughts on spew from the wolf was good, mostly because in one of the most previous games we played I read his spew pretty in depth to push his wolf partner Alison, so it makes sense he's expecting me to look at those kinda things again. It's mostly a minor point, though. He had some posts day 1 that were like, snap read kinda things, just posting thoughts on a fair few things in quick succession. I could be wrong about this because I didn't read much of backwards mafia where he was a wolf, but I recall his reads being a lot more formulaic/stilted in that game, not as flowy as there.

I think by far the worst part about NAA is his JJJ read. He talked a lot about JJJ, and basically seemed to put a strong emphasis on JJJ's influence in his game, but at the same time claimed... no read on him. I don't really understand how you can not have a read on someone who's a focal point of your game, and it felt like an excuse more than anything. I also think him being on the wagon is actually bad considering his earlier stuff in the EoD about not voting JJJ

nutella - have felt like she's slightly towny in terms of her reads. Have some minor gripes but meh. I think the pressure against her SoD2 was jumped on by a wolf, which helps, tbh I don't remember who all did that but I know Marmot did at least which I didn't like, lol. I do agree with Iaafr's opinion that Nutella's posts about JJJ don't look partnered but I kinda expected more? Like the one Dizzy quoted earlier and said they liked was good, but I didn't really see much else from Nutella about JJJ that I went like "yeah this is someone without TMI on JJJ"

I also just barely lost to wolf!Alexa due to associative reads lol, (Gira was the one who pulled the trigger on that but I was thinking the same while alive), and kinda was thinking after seeing that, that I shouldn't be clearing partners off of like... individual posts that can really intentionally be wifomy. Nutella's thoughts about JJJ extend past one post but not significantly.

Do agree that her having no tunnels is a bit but eh. Town leaning her

staypositivefriend - Pretty conflicted on SPF this game which I don't like, leaning her wolf though. I have a lot of stuff that I'd need to pull posts for that I don't really want to do right now because I've spent a lot of time writing this but basically, I don't really agree with Alexa that SPF's EoD was that good. She did venture off the wagons temporarily that led to JJJ being in contention, but I don't think "I don't want to kill JJJ today" is something SPF wouldn't be able to post as a wolf. It's like, not that hard to think as a wolf considering it's a pretty common thought, and she did a few things I didn't like EoD. Immediately after saying she thought JJJ was wolfy but she didn't want to kill him that day, she made a really, really really wolfy post; I'm actually going to go find it.

i think that wilgy is the type of player that people might find easy to push on regardless of his alignment, and i also would be lying if i said that ive gotten anything alignment indicative out of his posts

the real reason that im voting for him is because he has a vested interest in maintaining an active presence in this game, but he does not appear to have a vested interest in solving the game. when someone cares a lot about a game but that "caring" doesn't translate to any visible scumhunting, then it can be indicative of the person playing in a wolf mindset

So, in the first paragraph she says "I would be lying if I said that I've gotten anything AI out of (Wilgys) posts"

But then immediately after goes,

then it can be indicative of the person playing in a wolf mindset

while saying something he's done that's wolfy. Saying, like, someone is null to you (the first paragraph), then going into "but here's something they've done that's wolfy actually, and I want them dead today" just reads so awful to me

Other random stuff I didn't like is like, her post earlier saying "I think this PoE from Mac was possibly made to wolf side,"

Which is such a weird sounding thought to begin with, but reading day 1 with that thought in mind I just go... really? Like, this Mac is making PoE's trying to hard wolf side?

He didn't do anything or push anything, and then a wolf died. I really don't think that's a wolf-siding Mac, wolf!Mac here is pretty obviously just doing nothing

I also disliked how disjointed SPF's EoD was. She threw out like.. 4 or 5 posts that were just paragraphs of her posting a thought, without much interaction. It all sounded rehearsed to me, too

I have the p403 is partnery from SPF I'm not gonna find it so there's that

Anyways what I was gonna write after all this is just stuff like, I think the gamestate rn is pretty bad just in the sense there's no real pushes and the votes on PoE are really consensus and basically no one cares, all the people who I see doing non-consensus stuff I think are town, and it's just not good imo

Current people I want to look into more are like, Marmot first of all, probably actually SPF second there, then Dizzy

Though this is a confusing amalgamation of people in terms of interactions but eh lmao

Again, esooa gives herself reasons to scumread Mac, but ends up townreading him. This time she acknowledges that this is how Mac would play the game out as a wolf.

i also find it kinda odd that you say mac usually tries to make himself get townread as a wolf by doing "off the cuff" stuff, and then note in the same paragraph that you townread the "spontaneity" of his wolfread on iaafr. isnt that exactly what youre arguing he would try to do as a wolf? this might be nitpicky but i dont really understand ur read on mac and it seems like the least fleshed out read in ur whole readslist, which kinda surprises me given (to my memory) you usually really like trying to sort out mac in games like this

I'm going to use another post because I can't help myself, responding to SPF

I guess I get what you mean about the Wilgy stuff, I mean, the specific idea that "Wilgy's posts individually were NAI but I was reading into his overall playstyle," but don't really think that's how the post comes across in how it's said

That could be partially though cause I realize now I mostly skimmed Wilgy day 1 and honestly got nothing out of his day 1 posts myself lmao, most my read on him was based on day 2. The words he was using were rly annoying to try to understand

So yeah to that

Your posts about Anne like, I mean I was being overly simplistic in the writing of it, but still, you say yourself that the reasons to wolf read her aren't like... thattt great. But she's been a wagon all day

That's also including I'm reminded that like

Both mason are defending her

And people just aren't biting

if you're town I'm probably not picking up stuff cause most this game has been played from me from behind

Both literally and figuratively in the sense that I had to backread an entire day before having the full context (while I've been kinda busy with work), and also just that I've been pretty annoyingly PoE'd because of the existence of an.. 11 poster

Who like, shouldn't even matter at this point

I mean, there's also just random dumb stuff like leetic getting angy I don't have a 100% solid list with exactly 3 wolves and everyone else town or whatever

In regards to the Mac stuff, what I mean by off the cuff posting is just like his typical snap read kinda things. Going "this person is mafia for this" and just saying random stuff

I usually read him by like, if I think he's just saying bullshit or if I actually like his snap reads

But this game my point is, he's doing none of that, and why not? imo as a wolf he wouldn't like, deter from acting like typical town!mac because what does that gain him here in terms of town reads? Is that really the best way to help his position? I don't think so,

And instead, he dropped a case, that I call spontaneous because there was a lot to it, it didn't seem to me to be something he just randomly posted. Like he had the thoughts before, and decided to post them then. So what I like about it isn't the similarities to the 'off the cuff' stuff, but the fact he had thoughts brewing that he didn't really feel the direct need to talk about. Similar to the stuff with his lovers chat, too.

hopefully explained that stuff well, but I'm kinda exhausted of writing all these larger posts after reading like 1000 posts lol

That being said though I mean, iaafr could just be right I'm being dumb about the game in general so idk

Kill who ever you want ig lol, my larger concern rly is just that like, I really doubt people's PoE's are actually solid and seems to be a lot of aversion to actually considering that the people in it might be town

meh

Esooa comes back to saying that Mac's behavior doesn't make sense for wolf!Mac, so he must be town. Like, esooa is changing her perception of what Mac's alignment could be based on his play without changing her read.

emagherd if you nerds just let this play out the way I wanted I'd be killed by mafia without trying which would be hilar

just pretend to townread me and we will go away and you won't have to worry about us anymore... amazing stuff!

Yeah but this is mafia so you should find wolves, not just survive.

if I can get myself killed by the mafia early when they're trying to get me mischopped that's more +ev for town than me making reads tbh

bruh

you can do both

I do like this post from esooa. Not enough to townread her, but she did call him out for his behavior here.

I just wish I could see intention in solving his alignment, because I don't.

Mac not being here is bad too

iaafr I guess got bonked for posting over the cap so lmao

I don't think this post is AI, but I don't know what it means.

What do you mean?

he is town

eh probably, but not resolved

how do you tihnk Falcon is town, but the best ? thing about chopping mac is you resolve your town read on an obvious town player

posts wolfily

I'll let you reread my post and look at the parenthesis instead of responding to your continued conf-biasing.

I literally do not know what it's supposed to mean if not that

You put the emphasis on best and worst in parathensis

Like I don't rly even care what you thought you meant when making that post it just generally doesn't make sense

If you're town reading Falcon, who is obvious town, why are you even putting "possibly the best"

esooa and I argue over the cons/benefits of chopping Mac in the waning moments of the day phase.

My point about the original post is that if Mac and falcon are both scum, resolving them is the best

If either one of them are scum, resolving them is the best. Why? We have to chop all the mafia anyway, falcon was always going to die for town to win this game.

If they're both town, it's the worst, because we lose two at once.

Also, falcon isn't automatically resolved before he dies, because we're assuming that they're lovers based on what they told us, it wasn't a guarantee. It was probably true, but they could have both. been scum and not lovers, or both town and playing a gambit. Long odds, but not guaranteed.

I didn't want to take the time to explain this at EOD because it would take too long.


I'm concerned that esooa was trying to pressure me in this dire moment into not voting Mac because it would mean killing my townread, falcon.

I am now voting Mac

vote: sloonei

Guys a wolf did u see his day 1

esooa votes Mac briefly before self-voting. I don't think this is AI for esooa, this is just funny content

Here's esooa's mentions/interactions with Mac in this game.

I think the worst thing for esooa here is that she made three consecutive takes on Mac that looked like this:

1) Mac's not trying to get townread, so he's probably a wolf
2) Mac sitting around doing nothing comes more from wolf!Mac than town!Mac
3) As wolf he wouldn't like, deter from acting like typical town!mac

Point number 2 came in the midst of giving him a townread anyway. It doesn't look like she's trying to solve his slot at all, more like she's trying to force a townread on him.


My conclusion is that a lot of this, including her final vote, is very partner indicative.

@ilario I think you were the one who asked. Here is my conclusion to reading esooa's ISO, there's more reactions inside the spoiler, but my tl;dr is outside.

[Marmot]

Here's a fun table

Player	Post Cap	Current Posts	Posts Left
anne	295	214	81
DrWilgy	163	69	94
Dyslexicon	292	276	16
esooa	241	184	57
iaafr	362	362	0
iralio/leetic	476	460	16
Lime Coke	370	314	56
Marmot	405	375	30
nutella	302	274	28
staypositivefriend	355	295	60

[Dyslexicon]

Sort by post cap tbh tbh

[nutella]

oh i didnt even realize wilgy is holding true to his signature again, nice

[Marmot]

Yeah I made him stop posting sry

[Marmot]

I didn't realize iaafr had postcapped, I wondered why he was so quiet

[Marmot]

I'm not entirely sure how to best format this post, so I'm going to to my best...

I've started coding a new bot that simulates AI, it's called the JJJ simulator. I'm trying to compile the dos and don'ts, so please tell me where you all agree and disagree with the logic that I am hard coding into my bot.


1) If JJJ politely lectured you about how to play the game or how he sees the game, you're town.

Marmot

Spoiler: show

Oh I'm not the only one sensing JJJ being off, good to know. The dude forgot how to wolf.

What’s off

You're talking about people and not to people. I'm accustomed to you engaging people with their takes and posts, rather than dropping a line or two and moving on.

Your tone doesn't look to me like you feel comfortable in this game.


I realize the first of these things is not what's happening here, but that's what I've noticed in your first dozen posts or so (I'm still on page 4).

Okay.

There’s a facilitatory character to what I suspect folks perceive as Generic Jay Play that is less critical in a game filled with great players who will talk plenty without me. That definitely includes pointed dialogue AT people. This thread has started the right way I think and I don’t feel an immediate need to do all that stuff right now. The game is doing well to facilitate itself without all my incessant nudging. Nice job gang!

I’ll let you catch up

For Marmot:

I don't care about "pressure". I didn't "offer" to step back, it's just what I have done in this game and I explained when prompted.

Cassandra

Spoiler: show

Regarding my leadership capacity (re: alexa): remember from the article (shameless plug) that one of the first core questions to ask about leadership in Mafia is whether or not the game actually calls for it or has a need for it in a given situation. Just joining a game and immediately going Leader Mode isn't necessarily a good thing.

Ilario

Spoiler: show

Who does JaggedJimmyJay want to eliminate today?

If the day ended in five seconds I'd vote NAA for boring snap reads. I'm in no hurry though.

Huh wdym? Also, why is that alignment indicative For him even if that’s the case?

I clarified a couple posts later, so refer there. I wish to address the orange briefly though, because this is a recurring question that I deal with and I might just refer back to this post number if/when I see it again (no affront intended to you ilario for asking). While I do have a sense on some level of what is or is not "alignment indicative" for certain people, that is not a mindset that holds dominating sway over my solving practice. I think it's a fundamentally flawed question, at least in the way it's most often applied (to literally everything). Sometimes accusations ought to be rendered without regard for such specific notions of meta. I'll include this in the forward of my book.

Leetic

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: MacDougall] aubergine

one fart too many

I do have one question for you: Is there a reason why it took you this long in the game to vote for someone? Wilgy and Sloonei are the only ones to have held out for longer and the latter didn't even show

Yes. Perhaps my most important discovery over the last two-three years of Mafia is that an environment of comfort is usually better for town than an environment of pressure. Often in the early game if I feel mu vote serves no purpose higher than just pressure, I don’t place it. I feel that gives people I have suspicions of maximum space to change my mind and believe that I really am listening.

Eventually one must vote though. This felt like the time.

Thread has become quite turbulent, more than usual. I wish I was better able to help change that now, but it’ll be something we should try to sort as a group moving forward

[VOTE: JaggedJimmyJay] aubergine

Come on. I don't see a JJJ who says a lot of activity is a bad thing.

“Turbulence” is not “activity”. It’s a sense of flailing. Activity is great.

SPF

Spoiler: show

Okay then.

Regarding the MR post SPF highlighted: shrug. I don’t struggle to see the latter paragraph as a token qualifier to encourage an active-listening dialogue. “That said, you could be right blah blah” is kind of a staple of my own play even if sometimes it’s perhaps redundant or otherwise not necessary. It’s a courtesy at least when I do it. MR can expand on his own.

The mechanical dynamics of the post may be questionable with a certain degree of nitpick. But you could be right.

2) Every group read where JJJ defines the group contains AT LEAST 1 Mafia

Group A
leetic/ilario
cassandralexa
nutella
iaafr
Lime Coke
staypositivefriend

Group B
Anne, MR, Sloonei, Wilgy

Spoiler: show

@falcon45ca I have collected a solid number of town reads and posted them. I may not have posted the generic ~list~ but it’s in the plans once I can dedicate some time to review. For the moment here are town reads in no particular order:

leetic/ilario
cassandralexa
nutella
iaafr
Lime Coke
staypositivefriend

I feel pretty good about this group. There are some others I might consider e.g. Marmot. I’ll see.

JJJ. who do you scumread tbh?

Active suspicion is limited. I don’t trust Nanook. I am vacant of cause to town read Anne, MR, Sloonei, Wilgy

3) If JJJ wrote anything about your thought process or how to handle you without talking about the game at all, you are town.

Leetic

Spoiler: show

leetic has a uniquely pointed means of getting into dialogues with people, as in, he is assertive even in contexts where it may not necessarily be "warranted" (this shouldn't be interpreted as a complaint). I haven't played a ton of games with the fellow, but it's immediately recognizable in his treatment of me. The general "shouldn't you be solving more" dig is an ordinary thing for someone in his position (limited but non-zero experience with me) to expect of JaggedJimmyJay, and there's already nuance in the development of his perspective of me that I think looks authentic.

To clarify my view of leetic, which seems to be halfway controversial at this point: I view him as a player who in his hunt favors the most direct, readily apparent evidence available. He isn't the sort to take extra logical steps to develop reads e.g. wifom, and whether he is right or wrong he will stick with the first available interpretation of the posts in front of him. A Syndicate long-timer that I think plays a similar game is DFaraday. Sometimes that approach can be interpreted as opportunistic or low in nuance without those added inferential steps in the thought process even when it's a part of a player's solving process.

Lime Coke

Spoiler: show

When last I played with Lime Coke, he was town and play took on a pretty distinct character to my memory:

Stay calm
Adopt a process
Trust the process
Trust other people to sort the process

That process was a dedicated POE hunt that if I recall caught him some flak last time, and despite that he stuck to it (until perhaps running out of gas). I am seeing some of the same general mentality in this young game, not just in a pursuit of town reads but in a general perspective that there's a process and it will work if I allow it to work. An example is LC's reception of suspicion: to give a basic effort to convey a town spirit while mostly just trusting others to get there. So I appreciate all of that from LC so far.

Nanook

Spoiler: show

Nanook gonna do what Nannook do, and I am inclined to let him do it for a while before passing major judgment. I’ve theories for later.

NAA

Spoiler: show

My view of NAA is quite ambivalent. There are little kernels of the town game I saw in Fleabag, e.g. the partially-troll-partially-cooperative treatment of me and my C L O U T. It’s a small point. I don’t know what he thinks of the game.

DrWilgy

Spoiler: show

I’m not sure any chop on the board is a bigger shrug than Wilgy. I have no read. Folks newer to him should be aware though that his general approach to this game isn’t atypical of what I know of DrWilgy. This is what he do

Marmot

Spoiler: show

I'm a bit torn on the rodent from the PNW. Holistically, I think his posts look fine -- his hunt seems to be organized in a way that recalls some of his other recent town efforts reasonably well. Conversely I sensed some opportunism in his treatment of me (e.g. suggesting I changed my approach somehow after pressure). I grant there's personal bias in that. It'd help to get someone else's perspective about Marmot's view of me.

4) If JJJ made an associative read, someone within the read is mafia

Nutella
iaafr

Spoiler: show

I love the aesthetic similarity between rabbitposts and nutellaposts, as a general concept rather than a reference to this specific game. Swap their avatars and it's convincing.

iaafr is something resembling a green skittle. I don't have strong feelings but he seems okay. nutella is the absence of a skittle. I'm sure she'll do things when she feels like it so play on

Nutella
iaafr
Sloonei

Spoiler: show

nutella and iaafr tend to look good in their dealings with each other in a way that reminds me of my own dynamic with Sloonei. They speak the same language and in that interaction a purer expression of them seems to emerge. That might not be super clear; it’s dependent upon an abstract connection to a specific player. I’m not sure that is a universal experience for everyone.

Anyway I like their cooperative vibe

5) If JJJ disagrees with your playstyle, and throws a fit over it, you are town.

MacDougall

Spoiler: show

Just seems like tripling down on a tired gag instead of enduring the struggle to make real posts

this is a lazy read for you

You’ve played in such a way that this is the only available read beyond “farts are NAI”, and I am not giving you that over 24 hours into Day 1.

why did it feel like the time?

You’d had numerous opportunities to make your mark on the thread, and I was already patient. Tonight it just becomes parody.

Thanks falcon.

As a general rule, I’m not giving anyone credit for fart posts and certainly not MacDougall. Your other comments are more useful to me though and I will think it over.

The simulation indicates that JJJ is mafia with 3 of these 5 people:

Anne
iaafr
Nutella
Esooa
Dyslexicon

That is the PoE that the JJJ simulator has spit out.

Just gonna bring this post up again because I didn't have time to look it over at EOD2, but I think it's somewhat relevant.

We can dismiss category 5 because it was wrong, and only had one player in it anyway.

Categories 1 and 3 are probably hard to take automatically, because JJJ would not solely treat only town players in these particular ways. I think it's a reasonable assumption in general, but not universal.

Categories 2 and 4 are good, especially category 2 imo. I'm feeling more comfortable in the idea of yeeting someone in that group of "vacant-of-townreads" that JJJ listed, which would be esooa, anne, and Wilgy.


I'm still leaning towards vetoing a Wilgy chop for today at least, anne or esooa are fine.

[Lime Coke]

I really just want to kill nutella here but Alexa dying townreading her and SPF townreading her is stopping it.

Next best thing is Esooa and that feels like shit.

[Marmot]

esooa and Wilgy are both voting for nutella while anne isn't voting at all, that's actually kinda disconcerting.

[Marmot]

I really just want to kill nutella here but Alexa dying townreading her and SPF townreading her is stopping it.

Next best thing is Esooa and that feels like shit.

Why does chopping esooa feel like shit?

[Lime Coke]

I really just want to kill nutella here but Alexa dying townreading her and SPF townreading her is stopping it.

Next best thing is Esooa and that feels like shit.

Why does chopping esooa feel like shit?

Because of the "This is why I hate subbing in as town" stuff. Like there was a game where Esooa subbed into a Day 4 which was a game that was at like 2,000 posts at that rate, called out the scum team of Katze and Schweppes, got misyeeted and took an L at the end.
Like seeing that and I can see the frustration from that.

Kind of the same reason I'm seeing Anne as town this game because of her disdain for being town, the "people will scumread me for disagreeing with them" line pretty much goes in line with how she has played this game.

[Dyslexicon]

I really just want to kill nutella here but Alexa dying townreading her and SPF townreading her is stopping it.

Next best thing is Esooa and that feels like shit.

Don't know how to ask or if it's relevant, but I'm also town reading Nutella, but you may not be very interested in what I have to say

[Lime Coke]

Why that emoji is at the top is beyond me but that tends to happen often.

[Dyslexicon]

Honestly, I see your point Lime. Probably more so for Esooa. But what I also see is that neither or Esooa's or Anne's solving has been strong at all. Not only strong, it hasn't been towny.

[Marmot]

Why that emoji is at the top is beyond me but that tends to happen often.

If you're phone posting and scroll down to type your post on the page after you open the post editor, sometimes you'll probably put your finger on an emoji as you're scrolling and it'll add that emoji in even though you're just scrolling. It is weird but harmless.




That's why I like, kinda want to ignore most AtE, because it's useable as either alignmnet and meant to relieve incoming pressure, and adding little caveats like "... as town" are easy to slip in even if that part is a lie in an otherwise truthful frustration post.

Aside from that post, do you think that she's clear or townie based on thread state or other events?

[Lime Coke]

Honestly, I see your point Lime. Probably more so for Esooa. But what I also see is that neither or Esooa's or Anne's solving has been strong at all. Not only strong, it hasn't been towny.

Anne's solving lead to a scum!Mac yeet.

[Dyslexicon]

Honestly, I see your point Lime. Probably more so for Esooa. But what I also see is that neither or Esooa's or Anne's solving has been strong at all. Not only strong, it hasn't been towny.

Anne's solving lead to a scum!Mac yeet.

It did not. A lot of people had Mac on their radar. Wasn't Anne on that quite late? SPF pushed Mac, as had Ilario done all day.

[Lime Coke]

Honestly, I see your point Lime. Probably more so for Esooa. But what I also see is that neither or Esooa's or Anne's solving has been strong at all. Not only strong, it hasn't been towny.

Anne's solving lead to a scum!Mac yeet.

It did not. A lot of people had Mac on their radar. Wasn't Anne on that quite late? SPF pushed Mac, as had Ilario done all day.

The wagon dissolved and had no one on it because the thread turned to voting SPF at one point.

[Marmot]

Spoiler: show

can someone give me a scumread. as in write a scumread for me that i can use and vote on.

Mac's posts did nothing to me and felt like he was struggling to generate content

JJJ feels distinctly off - his posting isn't bad but lacks the town leadershipness. i think he's either mafia or some PR trying to survive

NAA feels less towny than last game though admittedly my eyes glazed over when i read a lot of their posts

there u go

---

also i just remembered MR's entrance felt kinda towny.

okay. im gonna go reread Mac and NAA posts since i didn't really get to read those in-depth.

Anne's first mention of Mac comes in the waning moments of Day 1, she runs off to look at NAA and Mac. She never actually looked into Mac before EOD, but she did look into NAA. I find this a little alarming, but not a lot, given the time factor of EOD, and that I think NAA was actually a wagon whereas Mac never was. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong on NAA being a wagon).

Okay, first of all it's impossible for me to engage with this thread when the majority of conversation happens at like 3 AM. Second of all, imma need you to take your votes off of me because it don't make no sense. I was distracted during the previous EOD and I actually went back and reread everything I missed from that, but unfortunately you guys posted up a storm today and I won't be at all re-reading that because it's too much.

So with that I say that we need to stop clearing everyone for "claims". Roles were randed before alignments in the setup so mafia could theoretically have any roles available to them. This isn't important to my point because I don't FOS anyone who has an open claim rn idt, but something to keep in mind. Second of all, I want Nutella to explain why she pushed me when I was not around and apparently continues to do so just based on my skimming? JJJ was extremely reluctant to TR me for a reason, because he knows I am town. Now if I had to guess, JJJ probably was townreading at least one of his buddies. I'd need to go back and reread his posts though to figure out exactly who he was townreading to begin with though.

Also iaafr keeps trying to shove me into a POE with NAA. We can't be teamed so you need to get over that, already your POE is flawed. The reason me and NAA can't be teamed is that if he were my partner I would not buss him and leave my vote up on him like that as mafia ever, it just doesn't happen. I am already anti-bussing to begin with, but I would not miss EOD as wolf knowing it's possible a partner goes over and do nothing to stop. Which is already a point in my favor why I can't be mafia with JJJ, but I acknowledge his wagon formed rather quickly so it doesn't really "count".

Anyways, I'm going to actually give some reads now. I think there was at least one mafia voting me at EOD, either Wigly or Nutella, maybe even both but might be unlikely due to JJJ's vote being on me. Cassandra is probably town for... emotional reasons I don't care to get into. Also she claimed her role for no reason which is rand v for her anyways. I think iaafr's approach to me today has been somewhat opportunistic and he won't even wait to see what I have to say at all, but I liked his day 1 so idk. Also I still think ilario/leetic are town, mostly cause of ilario now because I think leetic has dropped off. Also as I'm typing this, I'm wondering if it's possible Mac and Falcon are both mafia and share the same alignment similar to ilario/leetic? Anyways have a reads list

Ilario/Leetic
LimeCoke
Cassandra
Marmot
Mac
Dizzy
Falcon
SPF
iaafr
NAA
Nutella
Wigly

Not putting Esooa on the list because I haven't read a single one of her posts or Sloonei's posts.

Anne does consider Mac/falcon being a scum team together, but she put Mac pretty high on the list, so

And I do think Mac and Falcon can be the same alignment anyways, similar to Ilario/Leetic. I agree it's not 100%, but let's not ignore how weird it was for Mac to just come in and clear Falcon right away.

Also Mac flipping mafia would neither clear Falcon nor condemn him while the opposite is true, so idk mech stuff

I don't mind this take from Anne. I think she was the only one who really thought falcon was possibly scum.

I don't think voting Falcon before Mac matters because I think they both can be scum. You're trying to create an argument where there is none other than your preference to flip Mac first for mech reasons

Where did I suspect the mech clears? Please tell me, Nutella. All I said is that mech clears don't exist in this game as we typically know it, a factually true statement. If you want to suspect me then go right ahead, but don't make up things I never said.

I did near mech clears, yes I know there aren't real mech clears youal are entirely missing my point. The point is we are taking them as town for now and working with a poe and i think maybe you're not happy with that poe and want to expand it.

Sure I think Mac should be in the poe, but not falcon. Illeeric I think are most likely just town from play, it did cross my mind that it could be like a jekyll and hyde situation where one of them is actually mafia but that would be pretty bastard lol. Like I think leetics playstyle alone explains why he's so hard to work with and the way he grabs onto things is towny if aggravating.

Well, I had leetic as my strongest townread, so did you read my post? That's not what I meant when I said we shouldn't mech clear people, also I was referring to the opposite which would be Mac/Falcon sharing alignments. The POE right now is just me basically, so of course anyone I suspect would be "expanding" it and if you look closely at my post, if I was mafia trying to expand the POE then i didn't do a very good job with it.

I don't think voting Falcon before Mac matters because I think they both can be scum. You're trying to create an argument where there is none other than your preference to flip Mac first for mech reasons

Mac has claimed a green check on Falcon. This game is not bastard
If you think Falcon is scum, you vote Mac first

You not understanding this is incredibly wolfy to me

I don't automatically have perfect mech understanding 100% of the time

Hey alexa, vote anne already. You've been dancing around seriously scumreading her all game, you should commit atp.

Where did I suspect the mech clears? Please tell me, Nutella. All I said is that mech clears don't exist in this game as we typically know it, a factually true statement. If you want to suspect me then go right ahead, but don't make up things I never said.

I did near mech clears, yes I know there aren't real mech clears youal are entirely missing my point. The point is we are taking them as town for now and working with a poe and i think maybe you're not happy with that poe and want to expand it.

Sure I think Mac should be in the poe, but not falcon. Illeeric I think are most likely just town from play, it did cross my mind that it could be like a jekyll and hyde situation where one of them is actually mafia but that would be pretty bastard lol. Like I think leetics playstyle alone explains why he's so hard to work with and the way he grabs onto things is towny if aggravating.

Well, I had leetic as my strongest townread, so did you read my post? That's not what I meant when I said we shouldn't mech clear people, also I was referring to the opposite which would be Mac/Falcon sharing alignments. The POE right now is just me basically, so of course anyone I suspect would be "expanding" it and if you look closely at my post, if I was mafia trying to expand the POE then i didn't do a very good job with it.

The poe is really not just you lol. Sure it's technically possible mac and falcon are w/w but the way they explained the mech I think it is exceedingly unlikely. Falcon should be taken as near clear for now imo, it's optimal to go along with it etc

I don't think you understand what I meant, but apparently no one is so it's frustrating and I guess I didn't explain well. I didn't mean flip Falcon first before Mac or whatever, I was just trying to work out how their claim works in the thread.

Anne discusses this further with nutella and others wert Mac/falcon. I agree that Mac first was always the correct flip given the green check existence, but again, unless mafia was relying on Anne to deepwolf (or Mac), pushing in this direction regardless seems counterproductive.

I also firmly believe that nutella and Anne are anti-teamed, or at least not w/w,

like id rather vote mac at this point. i think falcon is scummy and he could be w/w with mac and mac isnt that townie either so like he can go

Eventually votes Mac (so she can kill falcon mostly).

Here are Anne's interactions/mentions with Mac.

Anne's take was very specific and kinda counter to what the thread was doing, but her actions were ultimately pro-town, and also despite pushing a different take, her take brought us to the same conclusion, so it's fine.

Her lack of mentioning or looking into Mac Day 1 was a little alarming.


Overall: I want to chop nutella first. If nutella flips wolf, I'm willing to take Anne as town until LYLO. Otherwise, I'll reconsider.

Posting this again because it's relevant.

Anne didn't talk about Mac Day 1 at all, and even on Day 2, she pursued falcon as a SR more than Mac.

[Lime Coke]

Spoiler: show

can someone give me a scumread. as in write a scumread for me that i can use and vote on.

Mac's posts did nothing to me and felt like he was struggling to generate content

JJJ feels distinctly off - his posting isn't bad but lacks the town leadershipness. i think he's either mafia or some PR trying to survive

NAA feels less towny than last game though admittedly my eyes glazed over when i read a lot of their posts

there u go

---

also i just remembered MR's entrance felt kinda towny.

okay. im gonna go reread Mac and NAA posts since i didn't really get to read those in-depth.

Anne's first mention of Mac comes in the waning moments of Day 1, she runs off to look at NAA and Mac. She never actually looked into Mac before EOD, but she did look into NAA. I find this a little alarming, but not a lot, given the time factor of EOD, and that I think NAA was actually a wagon whereas Mac never was. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong on NAA being a wagon).

Okay, first of all it's impossible for me to engage with this thread when the majority of conversation happens at like 3 AM. Second of all, imma need you to take your votes off of me because it don't make no sense. I was distracted during the previous EOD and I actually went back and reread everything I missed from that, but unfortunately you guys posted up a storm today and I won't be at all re-reading that because it's too much.

So with that I say that we need to stop clearing everyone for "claims". Roles were randed before alignments in the setup so mafia could theoretically have any roles available to them. This isn't important to my point because I don't FOS anyone who has an open claim rn idt, but something to keep in mind. Second of all, I want Nutella to explain why she pushed me when I was not around and apparently continues to do so just based on my skimming? JJJ was extremely reluctant to TR me for a reason, because he knows I am town. Now if I had to guess, JJJ probably was townreading at least one of his buddies. I'd need to go back and reread his posts though to figure out exactly who he was townreading to begin with though.

Also iaafr keeps trying to shove me into a POE with NAA. We can't be teamed so you need to get over that, already your POE is flawed. The reason me and NAA can't be teamed is that if he were my partner I would not buss him and leave my vote up on him like that as mafia ever, it just doesn't happen. I am already anti-bussing to begin with, but I would not miss EOD as wolf knowing it's possible a partner goes over and do nothing to stop. Which is already a point in my favor why I can't be mafia with JJJ, but I acknowledge his wagon formed rather quickly so it doesn't really "count".

Anyways, I'm going to actually give some reads now. I think there was at least one mafia voting me at EOD, either Wigly or Nutella, maybe even both but might be unlikely due to JJJ's vote being on me. Cassandra is probably town for... emotional reasons I don't care to get into. Also she claimed her role for no reason which is rand v for her anyways. I think iaafr's approach to me today has been somewhat opportunistic and he won't even wait to see what I have to say at all, but I liked his day 1 so idk. Also I still think ilario/leetic are town, mostly cause of ilario now because I think leetic has dropped off. Also as I'm typing this, I'm wondering if it's possible Mac and Falcon are both mafia and share the same alignment similar to ilario/leetic? Anyways have a reads list

Ilario/Leetic
LimeCoke
Cassandra
Marmot
Mac
Dizzy
Falcon
SPF
iaafr
NAA
Nutella
Wigly

Not putting Esooa on the list because I haven't read a single one of her posts or Sloonei's posts.

Anne does consider Mac/falcon being a scum team together, but she put Mac pretty high on the list, so

And I do think Mac and Falcon can be the same alignment anyways, similar to Ilario/Leetic. I agree it's not 100%, but let's not ignore how weird it was for Mac to just come in and clear Falcon right away.

Also Mac flipping mafia would neither clear Falcon nor condemn him while the opposite is true, so idk mech stuff

I don't mind this take from Anne. I think she was the only one who really thought falcon was possibly scum.

I don't think voting Falcon before Mac matters because I think they both can be scum. You're trying to create an argument where there is none other than your preference to flip Mac first for mech reasons

Where did I suspect the mech clears? Please tell me, Nutella. All I said is that mech clears don't exist in this game as we typically know it, a factually true statement. If you want to suspect me then go right ahead, but don't make up things I never said.

I did near mech clears, yes I know there aren't real mech clears youal are entirely missing my point. The point is we are taking them as town for now and working with a poe and i think maybe you're not happy with that poe and want to expand it.

Sure I think Mac should be in the poe, but not falcon. Illeeric I think are most likely just town from play, it did cross my mind that it could be like a jekyll and hyde situation where one of them is actually mafia but that would be pretty bastard lol. Like I think leetics playstyle alone explains why he's so hard to work with and the way he grabs onto things is towny if aggravating.

Well, I had leetic as my strongest townread, so did you read my post? That's not what I meant when I said we shouldn't mech clear people, also I was referring to the opposite which would be Mac/Falcon sharing alignments. The POE right now is just me basically, so of course anyone I suspect would be "expanding" it and if you look closely at my post, if I was mafia trying to expand the POE then i didn't do a very good job with it.

I don't think voting Falcon before Mac matters because I think they both can be scum. You're trying to create an argument where there is none other than your preference to flip Mac first for mech reasons

Mac has claimed a green check on Falcon. This game is not bastard
If you think Falcon is scum, you vote Mac first

You not understanding this is incredibly wolfy to me

I don't automatically have perfect mech understanding 100% of the time

Hey alexa, vote anne already. You've been dancing around seriously scumreading her all game, you should commit atp.

Where did I suspect the mech clears? Please tell me, Nutella. All I said is that mech clears don't exist in this game as we typically know it, a factually true statement. If you want to suspect me then go right ahead, but don't make up things I never said.

I did near mech clears, yes I know there aren't real mech clears youal are entirely missing my point. The point is we are taking them as town for now and working with a poe and i think maybe you're not happy with that poe and want to expand it.

Sure I think Mac should be in the poe, but not falcon. Illeeric I think are most likely just town from play, it did cross my mind that it could be like a jekyll and hyde situation where one of them is actually mafia but that would be pretty bastard lol. Like I think leetics playstyle alone explains why he's so hard to work with and the way he grabs onto things is towny if aggravating.

Well, I had leetic as my strongest townread, so did you read my post? That's not what I meant when I said we shouldn't mech clear people, also I was referring to the opposite which would be Mac/Falcon sharing alignments. The POE right now is just me basically, so of course anyone I suspect would be "expanding" it and if you look closely at my post, if I was mafia trying to expand the POE then i didn't do a very good job with it.

The poe is really not just you lol. Sure it's technically possible mac and falcon are w/w but the way they explained the mech I think it is exceedingly unlikely. Falcon should be taken as near clear for now imo, it's optimal to go along with it etc

I don't think you understand what I meant, but apparently no one is so it's frustrating and I guess I didn't explain well. I didn't mean flip Falcon first before Mac or whatever, I was just trying to work out how their claim works in the thread.

Anne discusses this further with nutella and others wert Mac/falcon. I agree that Mac first was always the correct flip given the green check existence, but again, unless mafia was relying on Anne to deepwolf (or Mac), pushing in this direction regardless seems counterproductive.

I also firmly believe that nutella and Anne are anti-teamed, or at least not w/w,

like id rather vote mac at this point. i think falcon is scummy and he could be w/w with mac and mac isnt that townie either so like he can go

Eventually votes Mac (so she can kill falcon mostly).

Here are Anne's interactions/mentions with Mac.

Anne's take was very specific and kinda counter to what the thread was doing, but her actions were ultimately pro-town, and also despite pushing a different take, her take brought us to the same conclusion, so it's fine.

Her lack of mentioning or looking into Mac Day 1 was a little alarming.


Overall: I want to chop nutella first. If nutella flips wolf, I'm willing to take Anne as town until LYLO. Otherwise, I'll reconsider.

Posting this again because it's relevant.

Anne didn't talk about Mac Day 1 at all, and even on Day 2, she pursued falcon as a SR more than Mac.

Did you see why though?

[Marmot]

Did I see why what?

[Lime Coke]

Eh fuck it. Not worth it.

[Marmot]

It's fine, I want to hear what you're going to say, I'm just not sure which point you're referring to.

[Lime Coke]

It's not gonna matter

[Marmot]

Where's your head at Lime Coke? You do seem really uncomfortable today compared to Day 1. Is that normal for you?

[Dyslexicon]

@lime coke Anne voted Mac 45 minutes before EoD. She hadn't talked about Mac at all in many posts and for a long time when that happened. She made the below read list and talked a bit about Falcon/Mac claim and what one flipping would mean for the other and mech and stuff 12 hours before this point. But it was not really solving Mac, and it certainly was not her solving that lead the Mac chop, regardless of her alignment. She never even explained why she voted Mac. She just did and asked people to sheep her and to get Mac.

Look at the actual thing that happened please.

Ilario/Leetic
LimeCoke
Cassandra
Marmot
Mac
Dizzy
Falcon
SPF
iaafr
NAA
Nutella
Wigly

Not putting Esooa on the list because I haven't read a single one of her posts or Sloonei's posts.

[Lime Coke]

Where's your head at Lime Coke? You do seem really uncomfortable today compared to Day 1. Is that normal for you?

I had a huge hand in yeeting 2 mafia in a row. Both of them pretty big fucking names. No one wants to listen to me still and just want to fuck with me. You wonder why I'm not feeling great right now?

Literally having my best game right now and I can't fucking enjoy it.

[nutella]

stop misclearing anne then

[Dyslexicon]

Where's your head at Lime Coke? You do seem really uncomfortable today compared to Day 1. Is that normal for you?

I had a huge hand in yeeting 2 mafia in a row. Both of them pretty big fucking names. No one wants to listen to me still and just want to fuck with me. You wonder why I'm not feeling great right now?

Literally having my best game right now and I can't fucking enjoy it.

But it's not just others who needs to listen to you, you need to listen to others too. I'm definitely listening to you, and I'm trying to show you why what you're saying about Anne is false. She didn't actually solve Mac. She had him at the top half of her read list, talked about Falcon mostly and about the claim, and when EoD came she suddenly voted Mac without ever explaining why. That is not solving in my eyes. Do you disagree with that? It's great that you helped chop two scum, but that doesn't mean you're correct right now. That's just a fallacy.

[Lime Coke]

I say that I'm trying to stop being toxic and actually try to do so, people just see it as a reason to beat on me and never actually help me.

[Dyslexicon]

I say that I'm trying to stop being toxic and actually try to do so, people just see it as a reason to beat on me and never actually help me.

What do you want help with?

[Lime Coke]

I say that I'm trying to stop being toxic and actually try to do so, people just see it as a reason to beat on me and never actually help me.

What do you want help with?

I don't fucking know at this rate. I fucking hate this.

[nutella]

accept anne's mafia alignment into your heart and we will be at peace and sweep the game

[Lime Coke]

accept anne's mafia alignment into your heart and we will be at peace and sweep the game

Even if you're right and I'm wrong why the fuck would I care if you're doing this shit?

[Dyslexicon]

I say that I'm trying to stop being toxic and actually try to do so, people just see it as a reason to beat on me and never actually help me.

What do you want help with?

I don't fucking know at this rate. I fucking hate this.

Alright, I'm sorry about that. It's natural hating it when you play a game of mafia tbh. Don't get down on yourself. You've helped chop two scum already and that's great.

I can't really help you if you don't know. But I think me and others have tried explain our view of why for example Nutella is town and why I am town (in our eyes). And I'm trying to really question why Anne is cleared for you. I've talked about it quite a bit actually. It's fine if we disagree in the end, though I still feel you be quite resistant to even looking at ideas that are outside what you originally had thought. It's better if you talk it out when or if you feel like it, cause it's not really about you or whoever else to solve the game by themselves.

I also don't think you need to be very worried at this point.

[Marmot]

I say that I'm trying to stop being toxic and actually try to do so, people just see it as a reason to beat on me and never actually help me.

I'm trying to listen to you and hear where you're at. I may or may not be doing a good job, but I'm trying.

I've talked extensively about why I think nutella's scum. I agree with you on her.

I can also see why esooa and anne are potentially wolves. Also DrWilgy.


I think you're doing a fine job handling your frustration this game btw. You only brought it up in the thread when I asked, and it wasn't directed at anyone.



Also to your point of "I'm literally having my best game". I don't want to take that away from you, because you probably are, but mafia is not an individual game, it's a team game. I think I got a little bit caught up in that on Day 2. Town needs to continue to work together in order to continue that, otherwise we'll blow it. We don't need to set our reads aside, but sometimes that means each person doesn't get to chop the person they scumread the most on a given day.

It takes effort, but sometimes we have to look at things differently to see if we can see the game or players differently and understand why there are disagreements with other players we townread. I've been bringing up different angles to look at today in the hopes that that would help. Nobody has probably read any of the shit that I've posted, but it's helped me anyway.

[Marmot]

Alright well at this rate I don't know what to do because I had a clear cut scumread on someone days 1 and 2 that lead to mafia getting voted off.

Unfortunately I don't have that scumread today and I'm in line to just let whatever happen to happen.

I'm more than likely going to miss most of EOD today. So town can do whatever it wants without me in the way.

You're worth more to us than a clear-cut scumread btw. It's fine if you don't have one, your voice still matters and so does your vote. Just sheep us and then tell us we suck tomorrow if we're wrong.