Team Fortress Mafia [END]

[LinearPoint]

I dunno. Mafia can do the impractical and seemingly bad moves on purpose, but I typically like to assume the Mafia wont just be super obvious like that.
Especially since Town's first reaction to seeing a mislynch is to go after the people on the wagon. If it's all Mafia then that's bad for the Mafia even if Town assumes only one Mafia on the wagon it will ultimately reflect poorly on the other Mafia should they end up surviving to MyLo.

[MacDougall]

@Seanzie why sig?

[sabie12]

I figure the vote on me was to push me to participate more and get a better read on me. I don't know if they'd be so obvious as to vote me together if they're teammates. I'm not familiar with guillo so not sure if this is their norm or not

[Gavial]

Guys...Gavial is pinging me again...make him stop...

Particularly by doing this.

[VOTE: Gavial] aubergine

was there a specific post or series of posts you could point at as pinging you

Spoiler: show

16, 4, 18, 1, 13, 9, 7



That is my RNG POE


So Seanzie, falcon, TSP, Dolby, Nook, LP, & Jack...let's start flipping these goons

I like that but not LP.

Also don't see why a claim swap would happen?

If one goes down the other would go down

Claimswaps can happen late game when the remaining mafia members hope to win with both people involved alive.

Granted, I do concede that it is probably not super likely to happen.

What's not super likely? That Maf use claim swaps late game, or that Maf have multiple members alive late game?


Sean is in my sus pile

I can sheep you!

Inside the spoiler but post #1 Gavial takes Falcon's RNG team guess and says "I'm fine with all of them except for LP" which is taking a joke post seriously and literally just being "Fine" with the rest of the names being voted off.

Post #2 just yells out "I can sheep you!" towards Falcon for saying he sus's Sean. Like is he fine with sheeping Falcon because he agrees that Sean is wolfie orrrrrr...?

hmmm was hopeful that we were looking at the same thing but ig not

what're your thoughts on this then @Gavial

Low to mid key think this is towny for Martin.
I think it shows he did have a reaction and thoughts about specifics from Gavial, and was hoping that it would be something he could discuss with Lime. So it's not fabricated, it was a reaction that was really there.

Ah I missed this thing from Lime, my bad.
I think Lime didn’t read what I originally posted about my solve of Guillo/Sean/Falcon containing at least 1 wolf.

Falcon I believe also had Jack in the PoE and I believe also Sig and at the time I find Sig null to the point I didn’t really see a reason not to have him in a PoE.

I am aware the PoE wasn’t real, I just didn’t mind the PoE being what it was (other then LP).

[Dyslexicon]

Gavial might be town after all. Hard to tell with him, so interested to see what others think.

Calls me town in this post but then says I’m doing what I did in my scum game in the next.

LOL.

What's your point?

You did do that in your last scum game I saw.
I've seen you make bad reads and tunnel as both town and mafia.

My point is your read isn’t genuine.

If you were genuine you would say something like “I’m undecided towards Gavial’s alignment. I kinda like his recent posting but he is also showing similarities from his previous scum game where he pushed me.”
Kinda like what Lime Coke did but he wanted to scum read me for the paranoia I suppose.

I have literally been saying that. This is my literal words: "Gavial might be town after all. Hard to tell with him, so interested to see what others think." I'm obviously undecided and want others opinions.

You can't make up shit that didn't happen.

I don't like any of your posting. Doesn't mean you can't be town. If you are town, don't ever make a read on me on D1 again.

[Dyslexicon]

I know I'm sour Dizzy, but I can't deal with Gavial. I just can't.

[Dyslexicon]

Just talk with me it’s not frustrating.
If your town then theoretically you should be able to work with me and act on a Townie mindset.

Like the only true way to solve is the way I do which is entirely game state based.

You're literally making shit up that hasn't happened. I've tried talking to you. You're the one with the problem.

[Dyslexicon]

Hey so let’s start walking together eh?
@Dyslexicon
Why TSP town?

I've already talked about this.

It's a thin read tbh, but I'm feeling it.

[Gavial]

Lol that’s stingy as fuck!
Saying me and Falcon Wolf if Wolf after I said the same thing to you and Guillo.
Lmao.

I said that about you/Falcon way before you said your shit.

And why would it matter anyway? Don't answer, it's rhetorical.

Show me the proof.
Also you ask why it matters? Don’t want me to answer but I will because I’m Gavial. it matters because it’s more wolf motivated then town motivated which is an actual reason to push someone and eliminate them, it actually has a more then likely chance to flip wolf.
Like some of the wagons I’ve seen on many players in the past your are literally better off just RNG’ing all your votes and you will have a better chance at winning the game.

[Gavial]

Hey so let’s start walking together eh?
@Dyslexicon
Why TSP town?

I've already talked about this.

It's a thin read tbh, but I'm feeling it.

What makes you feel it?
Show me.

[Gavial]

Post number go!

[Gavial]

Gavial might be town after all. Hard to tell with him, so interested to see what others think.

Calls me town in this post but then says I’m doing what I did in my scum game in the next.

LOL.

What's your point?

You did do that in your last scum game I saw.
I've seen you make bad reads and tunnel as both town and mafia.

My point is your read isn’t genuine.

If you were genuine you would say something like “I’m undecided towards Gavial’s alignment. I kinda like his recent posting but he is also showing similarities from his previous scum game where he pushed me.”
Kinda like what Lime Coke did but he wanted to scum read me for the paranoia I suppose.

I have literally been saying that. This is my literal words: "Gavial might be town after all. Hard to tell with him, so interested to see what others think." I'm obviously undecided and want others opinions.

You can't make up shit that didn't happen.

I don't like any of your posting. Doesn't mean you can't be town. If you are town, don't ever make a read on me on D1 again.

“Gavial might be town after all” why exactly those words and why specifically did you need to state my alignment?

[Gavial]

Just talk with me it’s not frustrating.
If your town then theoretically you should be able to work with me and act on a Townie mindset.

Like the only true way to solve is the way I do which is entirely game state based.

You're literally making shit up that hasn't happened. I've tried talking to you. You're the one with the problem.

[Dyslexicon]

Lol that’s stingy as fuck!
Saying me and Falcon Wolf if Wolf after I said the same thing to you and Guillo.
Lmao.

I said that about you/Falcon way before you said your shit.

And why would it matter anyway? Don't answer, it's rhetorical.

Show me the proof.
Also you ask why it matters? Don’t want me to answer but I will because I’m Gavial. it matters because it’s more wolf motivated then town motivated which is an actual reason to push someone and eliminate them, it actually has a more then likely chance to flip wolf.
Like some of the wagons I’ve seen on many players in the past your are literally better off just RNG’ing all your votes and you will have a better chance at winning the game.

Read my ISO.
It's literally in it.
The burden on proof is on you. You're the one throwing shit burgers.

[Gavial]

I ain’t making anything up, everything I have been saying and all reads I have been saying is literally based on what’s happened so far in the game state.

[Dyslexicon]

“Gavial might be town after all” why exactly those words and why specifically did you need to state my alignment?

Those exact words, cause I don't know if you are or not. The exact thing that made me doubt was you saying that your mission was not "trying to look as towny as possible" or whatever you said. The wording sounded vaguely towny, your whole AtE thing. Right now I don't care about your alignment, and I will try to ignore you from now on. Good day.

[MartinGG99]

Not sure why LP be recently been called at as wolf randomly.
Last game they were town and I hard defended them.

I don’t find their Playstyle wolfy at all but apparently others do?

This just looks like Gavial is TMI-ing LP town.
He's not digging into why or who sussed out LP.
Or what his own read of LP is, if any.

I think @MartinGG99 town read one of this posts, but it was this that I scum read.

As well as his reads just seems even faker than usual.
I know he pulls out reads of thin air, but he just seems to have an opinion ready on everything, while at the same time, this opinion is based on nothing.

I think our differences are probably based on what level of WIFOM we're looking at. My view on it overall is more of a TWTBAW thing; TMI is unlikely to occur this way or this easily and for reasons I stated earlier here:

Not sure why LP be recently been called at as wolf randomly.
Last game they were town and I hard defended them.

I kinda feel like the wording and structure of this post comes from a mind that is thinking but not necessarily explicitly describing what it is thinking; its sorta beating around the bush if you will.

therefore I think this is indicative of it probably not being performative and/or unlikely to have been made by a wolf

I would think wolf posts are generally more direct with what it is because they are created by disingenuous intents

I'm also inclined to think that the reasons Gav gave (which are more from a past game, not this game) are another slight indicator of unlikely to be TMI. I mean, as you said yourself, Gav has already given a lot of reads or has a lot of energy and I think that would suggest !wolf Gav could have no issue coming up with a this-game reason to suggest LP is null or town. But Gav didn't use a this-game reason, and I don't think many of us thought that LP was scummy enough that they could not have the benefit of the doubt.

[Gavial]

@falcon45ca I think you should bus Gavial.

Ah it would appear I stand corrected.
Apparently you had some top secret read here.

[Gavial]

Sure, that’s fair.
You did indeed show you had concerns of me and Falcon being aligned.

[Gavial]

Not sure why though but don’t really care because I’m town.

[Gavial]

“Gavial might be town after all” why exactly those words and why specifically did you need to state my alignment?

Those exact words, cause I don't know if you are or not. The exact thing that made me doubt was you saying that your mission was not "trying to look as towny as possible" or whatever you said. The wording sounded vaguely towny, your whole AtE thing. Right now I don't care about your alignment, and I will try to ignore you from now on. Good day.

Just going to ignore me?
Damn what did I do?

[Gavial]

I’m always open to talk even if it’s with a wolf.

If their Wolf I’ll just catch them even more eventually.
If their Town and I think they wolf I’ll figure it out the longer I interact with them.


Sorry for tunnelling but like I’m not really seeing you as town this game.

[MartinGG99]

[VOTE: Marmot] aubergine

I feel that they're not w/w with LC tho since they asked if something helped them

Hey, Martin. Why are you voting Marmot?

tbh I was hoping more people might react to it

simply put I did put a reason in there (bolded and underlined now) but did not clearly state as being related to my vote

I felt Marmot asking if something helped someone else was at best not really pro-town for the sake of solving and at worst a wolfy mindset slip from a polite personality; something to wolf-lean for.

I thought if more people reacted to it maybe I would garner reads of others based on who questioned it and who didn't since I would imagine a town would more easily notice my reasons within my post than a wolf

but since you're apparently the only one who has asked (at least, according to my notifications) I doubt the validity of any results from my open-ended test there

[Dyslexicon]

Sorry for tunnelling but like I’m not really seeing you as town this game.

You know what, that's fine. I'm not interested in engaging. Good luck doing better.

[Gavial]

I’ll give Dizzy a pass on the LP and me thing, even though I think they can be wolf trying to build up this fake narrative of TMI, Dizzy also didn’t know my past game with them so.


Now I’m not sure if Dizzy’s point behind that was to call LP Town or Wolf.
If Wolf that means it’s more likely Dizzy is wolf trying to build up to even more ML’s like they were doing together with Guillo on Sig as well after me.

[Gavial]

Sorry for tunnelling but like I’m not really seeing you as town this game.

You know what, that's fine. I'm not interested in engaging. Good luck doing better.

“Doing better”.


Eh, I’ll tell you what when your comfortable enough and willing enough and brave enough to talk to the great Gavial don’t be afraid to engage in talk with me.


Just don’t ignore me but still be like discrediting/shading me or something like that. I honestly hate that and find it wolf indicative.

[Gavial]

Like say stuff to my face and at least listen to what I have to say if you don’t want to respond to it instead of ignoring it and throwing other stuff I did as “bad”.


Spoiler alert! Bad ain’t wolfy.

[MartinGG99]

Im as confident that LinearPoint is scum here as i was in Danganronpa V3: Killing Harmony mafia cafe game when i caught CRichard for similar reasons.

I wasn't in that game

so like could you re-iterate your reasons, because I think I only saw (or understood, I suppose) one

[MartinGG99]

I think Sean is town, because he seems to be actually thinking about the game, and he's having reactions to his own reactions to the game, which I think shows his reactions are genuine.

So looking back, I think Linearpoint and Mac are >rand!mafia, but that second one might be mildly fueled by OMGUS.

why?

Linearpoint's first post is the sort of first post that I like to make as scum (I always find the first post the hardest, after getting the first post out of the way, it is much easier to continue. Sometimes I even specifically try to "first" specifically to get the first post out of the way), and while this is not scum-indicative necessarily, it is scum-compatible. Then as others have mentioned, sometimes scum likes to mech-talk to hide, and their posts in regards to my team-claim suggestion feel the most likely to be coming from scum trying to look helpful in a mech discussion.

As for Mac, he called me mafia, so he must be mafia.

This awareness of omgusing and making a joke out of it is an example. He's commenting on how he feels, while at the same time it is how he feels.

Sig is hardcore obvious scum and im tunneling to their slow and painful death.

I don't know what parallel world I have entered, but I'm like 90% to locking Guillo town on D0 (this is hyperbole, but I do townread Guillo).

I agree on Sig. >rand!wolf for sure.

That't three in the team. Who is the last?

And this is similar. It's having a reaction to himself actually thinking Guillo is town and agreeing with him, which it seems he didn't expect. But at the same time, it is how he feels. As mafia, he would need to make up how he feels. But these reactions seems to show that how he feels is "in spite of" (in spite of not wanting to town read Guillo fully, in spite of not wanting to omgus).

^So that is me explaining a town read, which may or may not make sense to anyone.

But overall, I think Sean is town because he's jumping straight into the action. It just looks like he's really thinking about the game and wants to figure it out. Quite simply. And I've played enough with him that I think I know what that looks like.

@Lime Coke

I'm not too sure about the "overall" part, but I do think what you highlighted there is definitely something I have not seen in my last experience with !wolf Seanzie; at least not on a D1.

I think that's a preety good find for the time being

[MartinGG99]

lasagna awaits me

will continue my catch-up after eating

[TonyStarkPrime]

Sheeping wagon on sabie to spite gav

[TonyStarkPrime]

Will change it if I remember

[LinearPoint]

Sheeping wagon on sabie to spite gav

Now, this here is what I would consider an extremely bright red flag.
That is such a terrible reason to vote someone let along put them to match the highest vote count.

[MartinGG99]

Why wouldnt you lie about people’s meta as scum if the perception of a player’s neta can be different from player to player.

I can say that you bus your teammates as scum even though you never do and even if others know that you never do because guess what? I may have seen you bussing someone in a game where they didnt play.

LPs read on Falcon taking my read on on him at face value when he casted suspicion on me in the very same post is TMI and i will die on that hill, amigo.

Correct me if I'm wrong:

You think scum can lie and will lie about someone else's meta.

In theory, you have a point.

In practice, I doubt the belief voices that know differently wouldn't speak up. Besides, ultimately a person isn't going to trust meta about someone else that they don't know over their own conclusions unless they have nothing else to go off of. For example, Dyslexicon may have a valid & strong point about Seanzie's meta and posting so far but ultimately I'm probably going to hold my own conclusions at a higher level of consideration later on in the game.

[MartinGG99]

I kinda wanna live though so I can continue solving and making sure something stupid doesn’t go through like last minute wagon hits on like NAA, Martin or Dolby.

who the hell would last-minute wagon me

[MartinGG99]

I kinda wanna live though so I can continue solving and making sure something stupid doesn’t go through like last minute wagon hits on like NAA, Martin or Dolby.

who the hell would last-minute wagon me

I mean more like why you think that

but in general I can't recall me ever being wagoned later in a phase; its generally only around early-to-mid

[LinearPoint]

After looking through Tony's ISO the vote might be fine actually since they've been on Sabie for a while for not posting.
I still don't like how a lot of their posts are more doing like comments on other posts which don't even really say anything new or ad anything just saying words like "wondering if" and "maybe" in regards to possible claim confirming ideas.
Their read on Falcon also stands out as it's the only read provided other than Sabie and it's to say their are basically null with a very slight town read which almost seems pointless to even provide if that's all they will do in terms of reads.
The only other thing I don't exactly like is how they said Sabie has the lowest post count, something which objectively isn't true. I mean Sabie is basically tied with Martin and Tony for posts and I know Wiggly hasn't really posted yet. The fixation on only Sabie here is just odd.

[Gavial]

Sheeping wagon on sabie to spite gav

Will change it if I remember

Did you not listen to what I just said about wolves wanting you to do just that?

[Gavial]

Sheeping wagon on sabie to spite gav

Now, this here is what I would consider an extremely bright red flag.
That is such a terrible reason to vote someone let along put them to match the highest vote count.

After looking through Tony's ISO the vote might be fine actually since they've been on Sabie for a while for not posting.
I still don't like how a lot of their posts are more doing like comments on other posts which don't even really say anything new or ad anything just saying words like "wondering if" and "maybe" in regards to possible claim confirming ideas.
Their read on Falcon also stands out as it's the only read provided other than Sabie and it's to say their are basically null with a very slight town read which almost seems pointless to even provide if that's all they will do in terms of reads.
The only other thing I don't exactly like is how they said Sabie has the lowest post count, something which objectively isn't true. I mean Sabie is basically tied with Martin and Tony for posts and I know Wiggly hasn't really posted yet. The fixation on only Sabie here is just odd.

It was basically like this:
Guillo and Dizzy knew TSP would vote Sabie if they pushed for it.
If they didn’t they realize TSP might become Omega Smart and look at my TvT of Them and Sabie and realize “Hey Gavial is onto something!”. Wolves don’t want town to find each other, they want them to wolf read each other and town read them.

[Gavial]

I kinda wanna live though so I can continue solving and making sure something stupid doesn’t go through like last minute wagon hits on like NAA, Martin or Dolby.

who the hell would last-minute wagon me

Probably someone desperate during like Day 3 or 4.

[Gavial]

@Lime Coke
Either convince people to ML me or join me on the Guillo wagon.

[LinearPoint]

Do you realize you sound like a conspiracy theorist?

[MartinGG99]

Gavial, real talk. You know you're super frustrating to play with, because you pick a random ass tunnel and just go weeeeeee every fucking game. It is a reasons people keep calling your reads bad.

hmmmmmmmmm

dyslexicon town for now

strangely enough even though I feel like this statement in particular is super-replicable even as wolf I somehow vibe with this in a way (and in connection to everything else they've done so far) that makes me want to say town

[LinearPoint]

I'm pretty sure the Mafia is far less coordinated than you think they are and are not out here playing a game of 5D chess knowing the moves of Town far before they make them.

[Gavial]

I’ll pull a Dizzy.
@Lime Coke I think you should Buss Guillo!

[Gavial]

Do you realize you sound like a conspiracy theorist?

You realize how wolves play mafia and how town plays mafia and all probabilities of which are probable?

[MartinGG99]

strangely enough even though I feel like this statement in particular is super-replicable even as wolf I somehow vibe with this in a way (and in connection to everything else they've done so far) that makes me want to say town

someone in the thread is going to try and murder me for having this in my run-on sentence aren't they

[Gavial]

I'm pretty sure the Mafia is far less coordinated than you think they are and are not out here playing a game of 5D chess knowing the moves of Town far before they make them.

Far less coordinated? It doesn’t take much coordination to do that IMO.
You would be surprised on how much “5d chess” like play mafia makes every FM game.

[MartinGG99]

gav I wonder if you would thousand-post before you remotely realize how quiet everyone else has been

[Gavial]

Like example on one of the previous Jack scum games the one where I caught him:
“I move my Bishop to your Queen” I call your turn mate.
“My Bishop takes your Queen, I Buss my Teammate”
Gav has figured out my team, he’s that Golden Chess Piece.
Fortunately for us though it’s only a Pawn.
It would appear he can’t decide between my “Pawn or Castle”
Is Ender or Tony scum.
Ah Gavial is trying to vote me EoD eh? Sometimes you can’t remove your most confident play hit, “My King stays strong removes the pawn”
What’s that Gavial? No more King in your line of sight eh? That’s because your peice has been vanquished and now victory has been achieved.

You know man it really sucks when everyone town reads a player who’s almost obvious deep wolf even though I don’t consider them deep at all.

“Well Gavial, looks like your Pawn’s didn’t want to oppose my King!”

Yeah, well maybe next time.

“Maybe next time Gavial, maybe next time.”