Dr. Who Mafia - Night 12

[Turnip Head]

We all have a little Boogs in us.

Rico suave, I don't think MP would have a problem killing anyone on any night if he were bad. He knows it's just a game and he plays to win. And if he's bad he's also not the only member of his team.

[Black Rock]

I see Epi - thats what I mean about things slipping through that seem small that add up to something bigger. I'll be interested to see what Enrique has to say about your observation.

I can tell you I thought all 3 were bad at the time, and that I really didn't expect a Snow Dog lynch to actually happen that day (or Epig at the time I voted for that matter). I've chosen poorly but considering all 3 of you got lynched it's not exactly like I'm the only one.

Am I interpreting this correctly? That you vote for people you don't think will actually get lynched?

Tell me how that's a civilian strategy. :wonka:

It's not.

My strategy is to vote for him until he's lynched. Good to see you back Epignosis. I hope you're still civvie.

[Enrique]

I see Epi - thats what I mean about things slipping through that seem small that add up to something bigger. I'll be interested to see what Enrique has to say about your observation.

I can tell you I thought all 3 were bad at the time, and that I really didn't expect a Snow Dog lynch to actually happen that day (or Epig at the time I voted for that matter). I've chosen poorly but considering all 3 of you got lynched it's not exactly like I'm the only one.

Am I interpreting this correctly? That you vote for people you don't think will actually get lynched?

Tell me how that's a civilian strategy. :wonka:

Oh, I missed this post.

I voted for the person I was the most suspicious of... do you actually expect me to be lynched every time you vote for me? I don't understand this argument.

[Chris]

If I'm still alive to see tomorrow then I'll be strongly considering an MP vote, yeah

What do you make of his survived kill attempt? If he's bad, and not a Cyberman, that would make him either a Dalek or an indy/secret role. The Daleks are also the team that killed you the first time around. Do you think MP would have actually done that?

Huge WIFOM territory, but at least I think he'd be smarter than that. It's not because of this, I just don't think MP is bad in this game.

I was considering this question... and I remembered this:

The Cyber Controller: A ruler over lesser Cybermen. Can direct them to carry out the objectives of the Cybermen (to "upgrade" the lesser beings into Cybermen, thereby rendering them absent of emotion). You team selects which member will carry out the kill on even nights. *Secrets* You cannot be nightkilled until every other member on your team is dead.

Of course, when I asked the hosts if a player would survive a self target, they said no. But this role WOULD.

It's looking to me that MP is The Cyber Controller, and the only way to kill him would be by lynch.

[Enrique]

That's... terrible strategy, honestly. MP wasn't under heavy heat by any means when the Cybermen tried to kill him. Certainly not enough for them to just waste their kill like this.

Every baddie's goal in this game is to kill everyone else. Kills are essential. I don't think it'd be worth throwing one away just to gain maybe a little civvie cred.

[keys56000000000]

MP, I'm sorry if I offended you back there. I like that you are 100% involved in the game, in fact, I love it. I hate the quiet players that hide in silence. Posting the bare minumum and then sticking their winning banner in their signature with all the rest of the banners they didn't deserve.

But goddamn it, man, how about a little brevity? Less really can be more! If you're really a civvie, you need to realise that posting so much -- leading the conversations as you do -- is detrimental to our cause. You need to give other people a chance to get into the game. Because at the end of the day, who knows if you're really a civilian helping us out? That's the game we're playing. As for your question:

keys: I'm curious to your opinion on one item. Splints has had continued thoughts about you all game, so I'm curious if you have any read on her yet; if so, what is it?

I have no read on Splints really. I lean towards her being civ, but who knows. She's fully capable of pulling the wool over my eyes, and I've only played a handful of games with her.

And Splints: thanks for your vote of confidence, but you should never trust me in a mafia game! I play exactly the same as a mafioso as I do when I'm a civvie, the only difference being, I'm lying when I'm a mafioso.

[Turnip Head]

Enrique, there are other ways that the Cyberman's kill could be redirected back at himself. I think. If I read the roles right.

[Chris]

That's... terrible strategy, honestly. MP wasn't under heavy heat by any means when the Cybermen tried to kill him. Certainly not enough for them to just waste their kill like this.

Every baddie's goal in this game is to kill everyone else. Kills are essential. I don't think it'd be worth throwing one away just to gain maybe a little civvie cred.

I'm not throwing it out there as a strategy. I'm simply speaking my mind.

MP wanted me to back up my suspicion of him, and I have. I'll admit I may be looking for the peg to fit the hole, but I was somewhat convinced of his baddiness before I realized this.

My previous post was merely a way to explain how he survived.

With my realization, go back and look at his posts, and look at how many times he tried to use that NK attempt as civ cred, and as a way to say he was unequivocally not a Cyberman.

Yeah, the whole "I think you protest too much" bit...

[Epignosis]

I see Epi - thats what I mean about things slipping through that seem small that add up to something bigger. I'll be interested to see what Enrique has to say about your observation.

I can tell you I thought all 3 were bad at the time, and that I really didn't expect a Snow Dog lynch to actually happen that day (or Epig at the time I voted for that matter). I've chosen poorly but considering all 3 of you got lynched it's not exactly like I'm the only one.

Am I interpreting this correctly? That you vote for people you don't think will actually get lynched?

Tell me how that's a civilian strategy. :wonka:

Oh, I missed this post.

I voted for the person I was the most suspicious of... do you actually expect me to be lynched every time you vote for me? I don't understand this argument.

No. Just once will do.

[Turnip Head]

lol it's great to have you back Epi

[Enrique]

TH, I'm not completely sure I know what you're talking about, but looking back at the roles I noticed this:

Jackie Tyler: The late-30s mother of Rose Tyler. She is wary of The Doctor at first and views him as a danger to her daughter. Eventually she warms up to him however. The first time she met The Doctor, she tried to seduce him (rather unsuccessfully) in a very awkward manner. Each night, she attempts to seduce another player, insanifying them for the subsequent day and night.

We haven't had an insanified player all game, have we?

MR was gone for all of Night 1. Is it possible that he was Jackie, forgot to send his PM and then died?

[Chris]

That's... terrible strategy, honestly. MP wasn't under heavy heat by any means when the Cybermen tried to kill him. Certainly not enough for them to just waste their kill like this.

Every baddie's goal in this game is to kill everyone else. Kills are essential. I don't think it'd be worth throwing one away just to gain maybe a little civvie cred.

To elaborate on my own post... I disagree.

I think it's a brilliant strategy. Early on, there are protections that haven't been used. The chances of your kill going through early on are less. So if it's going to possibly get wasted, why not get wasted on yourself while gaining some civ cred?

There are CERTAINLY enough civ roles that he'd be able to claim... so, why is it a bad strategy? Because it's a wasted kill? That same kill is wasted just as much if you target someone with a protection...


LINKI @ Rico: I brought that up the other day... about no insanifications.

[Chris]

TH, I'm not completely sure I know what you're talking about, but looking back at the roles I noticed this:

Jackie Tyler: The late-30s mother of Rose Tyler. She is wary of The Doctor at first and views him as a danger to her daughter. Eventually she warms up to him however. The first time she met The Doctor, she tried to seduce him (rather unsuccessfully) in a very awkward manner. Each night, she attempts to seduce another player, insanifying them for the subsequent day and night.

We haven't had an insanified player all game, have we?

MR was gone for all of Night 1. Is it possible that he was Jackie, forgot to send his PM and then died?

Or whoever had that role was blocked, and then subsequently died... but that's still only MR or whoever else it was that I said... too lazy to go look.

[Enrique]

TH, I'm not completely sure I know what you're talking about, but looking back at the roles I noticed this:

Jackie Tyler: The late-30s mother of Rose Tyler. She is wary of The Doctor at first and views him as a danger to her daughter. Eventually she warms up to him however. The first time she met The Doctor, she tried to seduce him (rather unsuccessfully) in a very awkward manner. Each night, she attempts to seduce another player, insanifying them for the subsequent day and night.

We haven't had an insanified player all game, have we?

MR was gone for all of Night 1. Is it possible that he was Jackie, forgot to send his PM and then died?

Or whoever had that role was blocked, and then subsequently died... but that's still only MR or whoever else it was that I said... too lazy to go look.

MR and TH1.0 are the only players to have been nightkilled. But you're right, maybe it was TH and he was blocked on the first night. I assume he's not allowed to talk about that

[Chris]

I would say he absolutely can not talk about his former life...

And all that does is confirm that civvies are dropping like flies.

[Epignosis]

lol it's great to have you back Epi

[zeek]

There are CERTAINLY enough civ roles that he'd be able to claim... so, why is it a bad strategy? Because it's a wasted kill? That same kill is wasted just as much if you target someone with a protection...

This is why I doubt the theory, he said it was due to a prize for recruiting people to play, not his role. So why didn't he just say it was his role. He could have been really vague and everybody would have bought it.

[Enrique]

There are CERTAINLY enough civ roles that he'd be able to claim... so, why is it a bad strategy? Because it's a wasted kill? That same kill is wasted just as much if you target someone with a protection...

This is why I doubt the theory, he said it was due to a prize for recruiting people to play, not his role. So why didn't he just say it was his role. He could have been really vague and everybody would have bought it.

Eloh?

[zeek]

There are CERTAINLY enough civ roles that he'd be able to claim... so, why is it a bad strategy? Because it's a wasted kill? That same kill is wasted just as much if you target someone with a protection...

This is why I doubt the theory, he said it was due to a prize for recruiting people to play, not his role. So why didn't he just say it was his role. He could have been really vague and everybody would have bought it.

Eloh?

Exactly, and MP bought more votes from his explanation.

[Chris]

There are CERTAINLY enough civ roles that he'd be able to claim... so, why is it a bad strategy? Because it's a wasted kill? That same kill is wasted just as much if you target someone with a protection...

This is why I doubt the theory, he said it was due to a prize for recruiting people to play, not his role. So why didn't he just say it was his role. He could have been really vague and everybody would have bought it.

Well, I'd guess that roleclaiming a role that is currently occupied can be a bit hazardous to your mafia life.

Also, no one can dispute a prize, could they?

[Chris]

There are CERTAINLY enough civ roles that he'd be able to claim... so, why is it a bad strategy? Because it's a wasted kill? That same kill is wasted just as much if you target someone with a protection...

This is why I doubt the theory, he said it was due to a prize for recruiting people to play, not his role. So why didn't he just say it was his role. He could have been really vague and everybody would have bought it.

Eloh?

Exactly, and MP bought more votes from his explanation.

I'm sure he didn't plan on that, hence the panicked, "I'm backed into a corner" feel his posts have had.

[Enrique]

@Hosts: Are Dalek/Cyberman #1's roles "Block a player nightly?"

Surprised we haven't got that one yet.

[zeek]

It didn't stop Elo. And being vague would mean nobody knew which role he was talking about and so nobody would know if he was lying. The explanation he gave just seems very plausible. Why do you not think so, Chris?

[Dom]

If I'm still alive to see tomorrow then I'll be strongly considering an MP vote, yeah

What do you make of his survived kill attempt? If he's bad, and not a Cyberman, that would make him either a Dalek or an indy/secret role. The Daleks are also the team that killed you the first time around. Do you think MP would have actually done that?

Huge WIFOM territory, but at least I think he'd be smarter than that. It's not because of this, I just don't think MP is bad in this game.

I was considering this question... and I remembered this:

The Cyber Controller: A ruler over lesser Cybermen. Can direct them to carry out the objectives of the Cybermen (to "upgrade" the lesser beings into Cybermen, thereby rendering them absent of emotion). You team selects which member will carry out the kill on even nights. *Secrets* You cannot be nightkilled until every other member on your team is dead.

Of course, when I asked the hosts if a player would survive a self target, they said no. But this role WOULD.

It's looking to me that MP is The Cyber Controller, and the only way to kill him would be by lynch.

Chris, by the same logic, are there other role MP could be?

[Enrique]

Also:

The first three attempts on his life will be blocked. Every night, he attempts to find Lucy Saxon, his wife/villainess. If he finds her, they gain BTSC. Due to his strong ability as a scientist, once in the game he can block every night action that night to be randomly redirected at someone other than the original target. This is up to and including kill attempts.

The word is probably not block, but we're so close. What could it be?

[Chris]

If I'm still alive to see tomorrow then I'll be strongly considering an MP vote, yeah

What do you make of his survived kill attempt? If he's bad, and not a Cyberman, that would make him either a Dalek or an indy/secret role. The Daleks are also the team that killed you the first time around. Do you think MP would have actually done that?

Huge WIFOM territory, but at least I think he'd be smarter than that. It's not because of this, I just don't think MP is bad in this game.

I was considering this question... and I remembered this:

The Cyber Controller: A ruler over lesser Cybermen. Can direct them to carry out the objectives of the Cybermen (to "upgrade" the lesser beings into Cybermen, thereby rendering them absent of emotion). You team selects which member will carry out the kill on even nights. *Secrets* You cannot be nightkilled until every other member on your team is dead.

Of course, when I asked the hosts if a player would survive a self target, they said no. But this role WOULD.

It's looking to me that MP is The Cyber Controller, and the only way to kill him would be by lynch.

Chris, by the same logic, are there other role MP could be?

Based solely on his surviving a night kill? Sure. Any role with a protection.

I'll say it again, I'm not using his survival to justify my thinking he's bad. He's done that in his posting alone. I'm just backing up my theory on how he could have survived.


@ zeek: because I just don't believe him.

[zeek]

@ zeek: because I just don't believe him.

Fair enough

Also:

The first three attempts on his life will be blocked. Every night, he attempts to find Lucy Saxon, his wife/villainess. If he finds her, they gain BTSC. Due to his strong ability as a scientist, once in the game he can block every night action that night to be randomly redirected at someone other than the original target. This is up to and including kill attempts.

The word is probably not block, but we're so close. What could it be?

Something related to being a scientist?

[Chris]

Also, I specifically JUST SAID if someone wants to peg me as Daleks or Master, sure, but they'd be wrong. I'm not using anything as "proof" that I'm good. I'm not telling anyone to accept anything.

I'm saying:

Fact. I survived an NK from the Cybermen. I claim to know why I survived. Fact, no one else has done so. Therefore, I am less likely to be bad than anyone else right now.

I don't suppose you're going to share with us exactly how you survived, will you?

It's really easy to make a claim when you have no plans to back that claim up with any sort of proof.

This is my favorite post of MPs...



HOSTS: If the Cybermen targeted The Cyber Controller with their team kill before they were all dead, would he survive the kill attempt?

[Enrique]

Also, I specifically JUST SAID if someone wants to peg me as Daleks or Master, sure, but they'd be wrong. I'm not using anything as "proof" that I'm good. I'm not telling anyone to accept anything.

I'm saying:

Fact. I survived an NK from the Cybermen. I claim to know why I survived. Fact, no one else has done so. Therefore, I am less likely to be bad than anyone else right now.

I don't suppose you're going to share with us exactly how you survived, will you?

It's really easy to make a claim when you have no plans to back that claim up with any sort of proof.

This is my favorite post of MPs...



HOSTS: If the Cybermen targeted The Cyber Controller with their team kill before they were all dead, would he survive the kill attempt?

To add to that

HOSTS: Can they do that?

Didn't we ask before and the answer was no, or am I making this up?

[Enrique]

Well, there's this:

<snip>
Okay guys can we be nice to each other? No one thinks anyone is stupid. Keys, the fact that he was targeted by a baddie team does not definitively mean he's good, but it does mean that he's statistically less likely to be bad, because that's 1/2 of the baddie teams that he's not on.

<snip>

You've never heard of a mafia team targeting one of their own, in order to throw off suspicion?

Being targeted slightly clears a players. But not all that much IMO if you survive. I mean, that's like me buying a lottery ticket, not winning, but saying I almost won.

MP wasn't killed.


*HOSTS*

Can a mafia team target a member of their own team with a kill, and have it fail on purpose?

No

But also this:

ATTENTION HOSTS

Could a player with a protection prize be targeted by his own team and have it foiled that way?

Hmmmmm.....technically, yes. I'd have to answer that question with 'yes'.

Still really doubt it happened.

[Chris]

To add to that

HOSTS: Can they do that?

Didn't we ask before and the answer was no, or am I making this up?

I believe I asked the question wrong...

<snip>
Okay guys can we be nice to each other? No one thinks anyone is stupid. Keys, the fact that he was targeted by a baddie team does not definitively mean he's good, but it does mean that he's statistically less likely to be bad, because that's 1/2 of the baddie teams that he's not on.

<snip>

You've never heard of a mafia team targeting one of their own, in order to throw off suspicion?

Being targeted slightly clears a players. But not all that much IMO if you survive. I mean, that's like me buying a lottery ticket, not winning, but saying I almost won.

MP wasn't killed.


*HOSTS*

Can a mafia team target a member of their own team with a kill, and have it fail on purpose?

[Turnip Head]

Voted for Chris on accident, changed my vote to Chris instead.

[Enrique]

Voted for Chris on accident, changed my vote to Chris instead.

You have info don't you??

[Chris]

Voted for Chris on accident, changed my vote to Chris instead.

[zeek]

Voted for Chris on accident, changed my vote to Chris instead.

TH1.0 wouldn't have done that...

[Tangrowth]

Alright folks, here's the deal.

I realize I post a lot. But this is beyond even a level I have historically or typically exhibited, from what I can tell. And I realize my love for not only this game but just all things mafia, as well as my obsessive personality, and the fact that I've been spending practically every bit of free time I have playing this game, are all simultaneously reflected in the content and volume of my posts.

I've really thought about this and examined just how much I've been posting. I've consequently assessed that I think it will help not only this thread but also me to sort things out more properly this next day phase if I take a temporary spectator's view instead of trying to lead the thread as much as possible like I've felt pressured to previously, because I don't want to kill another juliets 1.0 or Snow Dog. I really feel taking this step back will help my thoughts become less cluttered too, as they probably are apparently to those of you actually read my posts in real time.

I believe I've said more than enough about what I'm currently thinking about players right now, and made plenty of posts in defense of myself all game up through actions as recent as end of D3 and so far during N3, so if you want to know what I'm thinking, just look at my posts. (Yeah, right, I don't think even I would do that if I were you. , just kidding... or am I?)

Also, keys, I wanted to specifically address your post: I'm sorry man, I don't mean to have been offensive ever either if I have been. And it's all cool, no worries -- mafia, it's not personal! AND I'm really super glad to be playing a game with you after your hiatus! I've just A LOT on my plate and sometimes it's been emotionally unpredictable without the mafia game in the mix even, since I moved across country a bit less than two months ago (being away from family and fiance is even harder than I anticipated at times), but I realize that's no excuse, and when added with mafia occasionally it may make me seem more testy than I intend to be. And I direct this to everyone too. So no worries, I'm totally cool with everyone.

And that's even if it turns out that most of you folks decide that tomorrow the best plan of action is to lynch me. I would hate it, but I've fought it, and I've made my points, so, if it's going to happen, then c'est la mafia game.

NOW I have a truly enormous amount of PhD work to get done this weekend too because we're gearing up on midterm time here soon, so this setup will work well to help me keep my sanity in that regard as well and ensure that I'm not neglecting those duties.

So I'll be watching from time to time I'm sure, but I won't talk to you folks again until a few hours or so before the Day 4 poll's end, a little over 48 hours from now. Have fun without me.

[Turnip Head]

Already hiding from the Day 4 lynch? 0_0

[Enrique]

Uhh see ya?

I'm not sure how this helps you, Alex, if at all... but it's up to you I guess. Good luck on the PhD work.

[zeek]

Gets head for posting too much, gets heat for backing off.

You might as well hide, MP, you'll get heat whatever you do.

[Turnip Head]

Gets head for posting too much, <snip>.

Scandalous

[juliets]

MP, it doesn't have to be all or none. You could try just reducing the length of your posts by editing them. Or only allow yourself 3 posts a day. Something short of no posts at all.

[Enrique]

Gets head for posting too much, <snip>.

Scandalous

[zeek]

And now I will hide

[Chris]

Gets head for posting too much,

Oh DAYUM!

*starts posting a LOT!*

[Enrique]

Alright slowly catching up and trying to stay current.

A few thoughts on players.

Daisy seems genuine to me, I am leaning civvie here.

Enrique reads baddie to me, once again that's where my vote will probably go.

MP, I'm feeling pretty neutral about him right now. I'm not seeing anything baddie here, just pushy.

I am going to look into Epigs voters posts as well. I feel like there was a last minute push in his direction and I personally did not see why he was so suspicious. Last day is the last I need to completely catch up on so I feel like I am working with full info here.

Linki: Gotrees, how does it make him more suspicious? I might be missing something here.

I want BR to say stuff other than she's voting for me This is the best I've been able to find.

BR, do you have anything to say about anyone else? Let's not leave it at "the Epig voters," be specific.

[Spacedaisy]

If we aim for a tie between a civ and a baddie, the civ will be lynched. No tie. I think its necessary to have a clear choice of 2 votes so its free from manipulation in that sense at least.

Potential outcomes:

CIV + CIV tie = One civ lynched, no baddies revealed, one person confirmed as civ. (worst-case)

CIV + BAD tie = One civ lynched, one baddie revealed.

BAD + BAD tie = One baddie lynched, one baddie revealed. (best-case)

So it's pretty much a gamble, but at least all of the options are better than just lynching a civ like we've been doing these past few nights. Even with option one, we lose a civ but one person is also confirmed as definitely a civ, unless I'm missing some way the baddies can manipulate that. (I suppose they would probably just lynch that confirmed civ the next night, but who knows.)

Anyway, judging by this last poll, I doubt we're all organized enough to go through with that, but if there's any possibility of it happening, I'd be willing to get behind the idea.

This is bad plan. Because I doubt the vote tally between the tied parties will be revealed. It would basically out someone. So let's say it is a Civ civ tie or a baddie baddie tie. They will likely randomly choose one, or both with die. So we will have no way to know if someone died because they had more votes, or because they were the randomly selected loser of the two. And if it is not a tie, we won't know the difference from if it were. Aiming for a tie seems like a great way to hand it to the baddies if you ask me.

Forget this talk of ties, it will most likely end in the death of another civ.

^ This.

Also, I really don't want to be one of the parties in consideration because I am definitely civ and would start +1. But I don't exactly have control of that I suppose?

It really rallied and went crazy in the thread when Hedgeowl had the vote lead and I want to know why no one else is seeing this?

I saw it and it was why I moved my vote from DF to Hedge.

LMAO @ TH and Zeek.

[bea]

@Hosts: Are Dalek/Cyberman #1's roles "Block a player nightly?"

Surprised we haven't got that one yet.

I don't do hangman's sorry. that's totally teefies bag baby....

[zeek]

Jackie's ability is something I'm not familair with. What exactly constitutes making someone insane? What do they have to do?

[Enrique]

@zeek: http://www.mikesteffler.com/InsanityGenerator.html Enjoy

[Chris]

Jackie's ability is something I'm not familair with. What exactly constitutes making someone insane? What do they have to do?

This is the insanifier.

It is LC's creation, so when you become afflicted with it, you can rage on him.

http://mikesteffler.com/InsanityGenerator.html