Team Fortress Mafia [END]

[NotAnAxehole]

Lel

[NotAnAxehole]

@DrWilgy yw for the save bruh, all it took was a bit of faked TMI

[NotAnAxehole]

@Marmot BB let me know how to pocket you this game, I know in your heart of hearts you know I'm town.

Evidence: none

Let's be friends, ask me what you want to know and I will do my best to not clarify, but also get you on my side.

[NotAnAxehole]

Oh NAA is now the leading wagon.

I'll join.

[VOTE: NAA] aubergine

I don't know what you're doing, but it's 2022 and I think I need to find a proper word to describe it... imma call it

Thame Growing

[NotAnAxehole]

@Marmot

[NotAnAxehole]

You there? Help me out... We played video mafia together my friend, you know me...

[DrWilgy]

@DrWilgy yw for the save bruh, all it took was a bit of faked TMI

Mph mphfh fh

[NotAnAxehole]

@DrWilgy yw for the save bruh, all it took was a bit of faked TMI

Mph mphfh fh

You know I'm town yeah?

[Guillotine]

Perfect scenario for this cycle is:

NAA gets chopped and find out if he is scum saving Sabie or a townie hard wolfsiding.
At night we night vig Wilgy
Scum tries to night kill me and fails.

Then we look into demoralized players but certainly i will be pushing to chop tony if NAA is scum, heck i could even see Tony having tmi on NAA if NAA is town too but let's kill the bull before we skin it shall we?

you're literally killing the vig (unless i'm dumb and forgot who the vig is) you can't vig wilgy after you do that

Who is vig? Axe?

[TonyStarkPrime]

yes

[TonyStarkPrime]

so i mean arbitrarily don't give wolves double kp but idk

[TonyStarkPrime]

wait has naa just failed to shoot people

[TonyStarkPrime]

NAA pls can i have a real actions list

[NotAnAxehole]

NAA pls can i have a real actions list

Tbh, probably won't save me.

[NotAnAxehole]

The only thing that can save me now is Marmot's kind heart. And New Year enthusiasm

[TonyStarkPrime]

i do not care if you think it will save you because I'm telling you it certainly can't hurt

[NotAnAxehole]

i do not care if you think it will save you because I'm telling you it certainly can't hurt

You don't know that. You can't guarantee that.

[Guillotine]

so i mean arbitrarily don't give wolves double kp but idk

I dont believe he is vig. Who forgets to kill as a vig? If i randed vig i would have killed two players already to clear the PoE.

So you are telling me he is town and sees how Seanzie went down thanks to his antics and instead of making ammends he what? Forgets to kill? Not even Mac whom he suspected to be a wolf between Seanzie/Mac, which is the whole reason he pushed Seanzie in the first place?

Nah my friend.

[NotAnAxehole]

so i mean arbitrarily don't give wolves double kp but idk

I dont believe he is vig. Who forgets to kill as a vig? If i randed vig i would have killed two players already to clear the PoE.

So you are telling me he is town and sees how Seanzie went down thanks to his antics and instead of making ammends he what? Forgets to kill? Not even Mac whom he suspected to be a wolf between Seanzie/Mac, which is the whole reason he pushed Seanzie in the first place?

Nah my friend.

"I don't believe he is vig"

*Looks at roles list*

There's nothing I could be other than vig.

[DrWilgy]

Mphn Maphn Nn

[NotAnAxehole]

Lol

[TonyStarkPrime]

so i mean arbitrarily don't give wolves double kp but idk

I dont believe he is vig. Who forgets to kill as a vig? If i randed vig i would have killed two players already to clear the PoE.

So you are telling me he is town and sees how Seanzie went down thanks to his antics and instead of making ammends he what? Forgets to kill? Not even Mac whom he suspected to be a wolf between Seanzie/Mac, which is the whole reason he pushed Seanzie in the first place?

Nah my friend.

incredibly everything here is false

[TonyStarkPrime]

like i don't know if he's town but he's very obviously the vig and he can't even shoot on night 1 anyways

[DrWilgy]

Perfect scenario for this cycle is:

NAA gets chopped and find out if he is scum saving Sabie or a townie hard wolfsiding.
At night we night vig Wilgy
Scum tries to night kill me and fails.

Then we look into demoralized players but certainly i will be pushing to chop tony if NAA is scum, heck i could even see Tony having tmi on NAA if NAA is town too but let's kill the bull before we skin it shall we?

Mphaahahahahahaha

*puffs degreaser*

[NotAnAxehole]

Gg fam, I take my exit here.

It's best if y'all don't kill me.

But also, like. I'm not going to put up a big fight. Peach and love. Don't revenge kill.falxon, this isn't a Thunderdome.

[NotAnAxehole]

I'll kill Sig tonight if you don't kill me.

[Guillotine]

so i mean arbitrarily don't give wolves double kp but idk

I dont believe he is vig. Who forgets to kill as a vig? If i randed vig i would have killed two players already to clear the PoE.

So you are telling me he is town and sees how Seanzie went down thanks to his antics and instead of making ammends he what? Forgets to kill? Not even Mac whom he suspected to be a wolf between Seanzie/Mac, which is the whole reason he pushed Seanzie in the first place?

Nah my friend.

incredibly everything here is false

What nah my friend, he Axe was pushed for his reasons to push for Seanzie, he said that he got cold feet and that he thought that there was scum between Seanzie and Macdougall. So by that logic why didt Axe vig Macdougall then, or those who opportunistically sheeped him to chop Seanzie? Hmm? If he is vig he had tge power to make ammends and ge didnt/has not.

[Guillotine]

Also…

Happy New Year folks.

May this year bear health, success and love.

[TonyStarkPrime]

there's some stuff that's not as important but I'm going to skip to the chase and say that in all likelihood he /did/ shoot mac

[MartinGG99]

so i mean arbitrarily don't give wolves double kp but idk

What if both medics are town?

I don't see why not.

And I also agree with Guilo's point on how NAA was infuential in the Seanzie CFD but seemingly hasn't shot anyone yet. It seems almost contradictory and we're somehow lucky that a !town NAA hasn't stabbed anyone yet. Or they tried to at some point but failed and just didn't mention it. Which doesn't seem impossible imo with the amount of ways things can fail in this game.

[MartinGG99]

Its also a bit ironic that you're using setup speculation after my own setup speculation wrt Sabie having a blue engi role....which you called probabilistically bad logic lol

[TonyStarkPrime]

i did no setup speculation

[TonyStarkPrime]

i was talking about why we might want to kill naa today

[TonyStarkPrime]

the setup is open there's no speculation needed :P

[MartinGG99]

the setup is open there's no speculation needed :P

Well I mean I saw the setup more as a "These are the roles, but some at to be picked to be mafia at host's discretion." style

so like I see any sort of guessing that Host would do X or Y to give balance to mafia or whatever as to be equivalent to setup speculation; its not completely open if we don't know what roles are going to be mafia imo.

i was talking about why we might want to kill naa today

Oh well I guess so. Dunno why you popped up with that suddenly after calling my logic for yeeting NAA as bad.

[TonyStarkPrime]

the setup is open there's no speculation needed :P

Well I mean I saw the setup more as a "These are the roles, but some at to be picked to be mafia at host's discretion." style

so like I see any sort of guessing that Host would do X or Y to give balance to mafia or whatever as to be equivalent to setup speculation; its not completely open if we don't know what roles are going to be mafia imo.

i was talking about why we might want to kill naa today

Oh well I guess so. Dunno why you popped up with that suddenly after calling my logic for yeeting NAA as bad.

1) if the setup is anything but random I will be filing a complaint afterwards. the way it is presented strongly presents randomness.

2) it was in direct reply to the response I had just made to guillo

[TonyStarkPrime]

arbitrarily if it's not random I think we should kill the RBers in order and then NAA and then me

[MartinGG99]

1) if the setup is anything but random I will be filing a complaint afterwards. the way it is presented strongly presents randomness.

How would it be not random?

If I were a hypothetical host, I would pick W X Y and Z roles to be mafia. Then the whole list would be randed to the players.

I guess you could rand which roles in said list were mafia, but that seems potentially prone to cause unbalance. I also don't think that's what I would do to a setup that I probably spent awhile carefully crafting so that everyone can have a potentially really powerful or impfactul role.

[MartinGG99]

1) if the setup is anything but random I will be filing a complaint afterwards. the way it is presented strongly presents randomness.

How would it be not random?

If I were a hypothetical host, I would pick W X Y and Z roles to be mafia. Then the whole list would be randed to the players.

I guess you could rand which roles in said list were mafia, but that seems potentially prone to cause unbalance. I also don't think that's what I would do to a setup that I probably spent awhile carefully crafting so that everyone can have a potentially really powerful or impfactul role.

Especially since the mafia at start just have 4 players or 22.2% of all players. Even with the small bonuses for the mafia, that doesn't seem to compensate for the fact that town will have 14 power roles which may be almost as equally powerful.

[TonyStarkPrime]

1) if the setup is anything but random I will be filing a complaint afterwards. the way it is presented strongly presents randomness.

How would it be not random?

If I were a hypothetical host, I would pick W X Y and Z roles to be mafia. Then the whole list would be randed to the players.

I guess you could rand which roles in said list were mafia, but that seems potentially prone to cause unbalance. I also don't think that's what I would do to a setup that I probably spent awhile carefully crafting so that everyone can have a potentially really powerful or impfactul role.

like taking this completely out of the game I would say that this method that you're describing here would be insanely irresponsible and would open up the door for a huge number of problems and should be avoided in all cases

like you can rand the game and if the rand is exceptionally out of order you can do something about it. Like for philo mafia we i think had to re-rand because the wolves got every single kill power role on the first go around. But even in that game the setup was closed so I felt comfortable doing something like that, I'm not sure if you can do that in an open setup.

to the second post which I'm not quoting here I'm not going to comment on the balance of the game in progress and i have opinions which I will never express

[MartinGG99]

1) if the setup is anything but random I will be filing a complaint afterwards. the way it is presented strongly presents randomness.

How would it be not random?

If I were a hypothetical host, I would pick W X Y and Z roles to be mafia. Then the whole list would be randed to the players.

I guess you could rand which roles in said list were mafia, but that seems potentially prone to cause unbalance. I also don't think that's what I would do to a setup that I probably spent awhile carefully crafting so that everyone can have a potentially really powerful or impfactul role.

like taking this completely out of the game I would say that this method that you're describing here would be insanely irresponsible and would open up the door for a huge number of problems and should be avoided in all cases

like you can rand the game and if the rand is exceptionally out of order you can do something about it. Like for philo mafia we i think had to re-rand because the wolves got every single kill power role on the first go around. But even in that game the setup was closed so I felt comfortable doing something like that, I'm not sure if you can do that in an open setup.

to the second post which I'm not quoting here I'm not going to comment on the balance of the game in progress and i have opinions which I will never express

.....Okay then

I suppose I am speaking from the biased perspective of a host who recently did that on another site; however, in that game I had clearly out-lined that I had already hand-picked which roles would be mafia before the signups were even posted. In this game, it isn't outlined and I suppose I could see a potential problem with that if the players wanted to know that before-hand. My experience as the host in that game tells me there's very few problems with it because (among other things) mafia went on to stomp the game and not a single town got close to being right; more often than not they had one or two mafia locked in as town if another went down. Nor did anyone ever complain about it.

I'll stop talking about it now though and we can have this post-game. I apologize if this conversation seems angle-shooty or whatever to you, because I clearly don't have (or am aware of) the same values, experiences, or reasons as you do on this at the moment.

[MartinGG99]

in that game I had clearly out-lined that I had already hand-picked which roles would be mafia before the signups were even posted (though said mafia roles were not revealed)

Clarifying edit in parentheses.

[NotAnAxehole]

Can't we just like turn this game into auto? I didn't check exactly... So I'm going to workshop it now.

Roleblockers block Pyros
Medic save on watcher
Watcher watches medic
Medic save on Spy

Spy shoots concensus town pick

12 players, that gives us 2 town kills per day until mafia break the cycle (which should be obvious via actions).

If we count 1 sniper shot, that gives town 5 KP in the next 2 days bringing us to final 5 where if we missed on everything, we would be in LyLo.

[NotAnAxehole]

It's not Auto, but forcing the vigilantes to shoot concensus targets is definitely the strategy to run here, you never kill them. So if I'm in your PoE, you kill me at 5 (TSP can die after he snipes a target)

[NotAnAxehole]

Roleblockers removing redirects from the game just gives town too much control over what happens, anyone who deviates is instantly chopped

[NotAnAxehole]

Like, if we can kill Sig, TSP, Guillo, DrWilgy, Linearpoint is there any situation where we don't win? (Even if you think I'm mafia)

[Marmot]

i do not care if you think it will save you because I'm telling you it certainly can't hurt

You don't know that. You can't guarantee that.

I guess we yeet you to the sun anyway and find out?

[Marmot]

@Marmot BB let me know how to pocket you this game, I know in your heart of hearts you know I'm town.

Evidence: none

Let's be friends, ask me what you want to know and I will do my best to not clarify, but also get you on my side.

I want to know your alignment, and flipping you will probably work :3

[Marmot]

There is more evidence to point to NAA scum than town atm. Yes I want the game to be auto, but it seems that means we chop NAA today.

[Marmot]

1) if the setup is anything but random I will be filing a complaint afterwards. the way it is presented strongly presents randomness.

How would it be not random?

If I were a hypothetical host, I would pick W X Y and Z roles to be mafia. Then the whole list would be randed to the players.

I guess you could rand which roles in said list were mafia, but that seems potentially prone to cause unbalance. I also don't think that's what I would do to a setup that I probably spent awhile carefully crafting so that everyone can have a potentially really powerful or impfactul role.

If you were to do that, you'd probably have to be explicit about it, as opposed to designing the game to give any role that rands mafia extra abilities, and to tell your players that it will be completely random. DDL has set it up this way.