Dr. Who Mafia - Night 12

[Long Con]

I found Epig's points about Made repeatedly defending you, Enrique, coupled with the Made save seeming last lynch, compounded by Epig and BR unrelentingly suspecting you... To be very convincing. My vote will go to Made.

[Made]

K caught up. I agree that last night's lynch looked like a save, but as MP said(???) it was a very sloppy one if it was,

As their seems to be confusion on what happened exactly, here's how it went down from my perspective: Snowdog did look guilty, so I commented on it. IF i were to vote to save myself, I would of voted hedge as i'm pretty sure she was two votes behind me at the time(5-3?), but i felt Dom still seemed guiltier, and i thought maybe my argument might of turns some heads so I left my vote where it was and left (on top of not feeling comfortable with a hedgie vote in general).
I'm not sure i understand what exactly happened with MM. He voted Snowdog, but told other people to vote me?

(fell asleep before posting this, so catching up with linki now.)

I disagree. i didn't look guilty. It seems you eagerly jumped on the opportunity to put votes elsewhere other than yourself. Anyone other tan yourself. Not very civ.

I didn't vote for you? also you're alive??? Gonna reread because apparently i missed a few things haha.

Really tho, I didn't see a vote for you gaining any traction, just figured it'd be a good spot to pick up on for today for those still alive. When I left, I'm pretty sure zeek was the only one who had a voted for snow dog 1.0.

linki- in felt I attempted to play a more analytic game. Think before i speak. Since i tended to play the opposite in Monty/Misfits, i figured it'd ping people and create baseless arguments against me in order to remain fairly sus but avoid nks, but baseless enough that i could shake them still.

[Enrique]

I honestly don't understand how people take Epignosis seriously.

[Made]

Elo, MP and Rico all claiming ripzfx methods of survival. Could Folding Raincoat be true?

Folding Raincoat?

[Epignosis]

I found Epig's points about Made repeatedly defending you, Enrique, coupled with the Made save seeming last lynch, compounded by Epig and BR unrelentingly suspecting you... To be very convincing. My vote will go to Made.

You're not worried about Enrique...

...how did you put it?



"Hiding in plain sight?"

[zeek]

Elo, MP and Rico all claiming ripzfx methods of survival. Could Folding Raincoat be true?

Folding Raincoat?

I Baneslayer think it's that hard to figure out what capote insane person is terribly.

Hmm... I could be wrong. But I think getting a gist is easy enough.

[Marmot]

I'm looking at MP, Made and Hedgeowl for my vote today, and I've got my eye on all the Snow Dog voters in general. I also want to see what happens with the suspicion on Enrique, and I plan on rereading MetalMarsh at some point.

Here's a link.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/search ... 5&sr=posts

[juliets]

TH, did you see something about Hedge that didn't have to do with her "riding the fence" or not answering Roxy's question? Or is it that you feel her answers were disingenuous?

[nijuukyugou]

OH MY GOD I THINK I CAUGHT UP.

I think. Thoughts, and then I must travel once again.

1) Welcome back, various replacements that I didn't get to welcome back!

2) That Snow Dog lynch was just as shady as I thought when I posted previously without having read the thread. I believe one or two had voted for him at first without a save in mind, then when Made votes started to pile up, people began switching around and/or voting SD at the last minute. Looks like a save, as others have said.

3) My thoughts haven't changed on Made. Yes, the major argument is that his game this time around has been markedly different from any other game we've played with him, and he was Civvie in all those games. I believe this is a valid argument because, as someone mentioned (I'm sorry for the "someones" instead of actual names, but I just spent an hour catching up and I'm not going back through at the moment for specifics; ask if you want them), he was more helpful/speculative then. In other games he spent the majority of time filling the thread with speculations and bouncing ideas off with other people. Sometimes it was helpful, other times it made things a lot harder for those of us who check in periodically to keep up with the thread to, well, keep up, since he was so ridiculously talkative. But this game? He talks little, and harps on the same points, then disappears when the conversation gets back to him between several people (not just one or two). He's doing almost no idea bouncing this game. And it's not like he hasn't been busy in other games (he was practicing for tests, etc. and said so in the thread). That looks like a baddie flying under the radar. So his behavior is not only "different," but not particularly helpful to the Civvie cause.

4) Interesting points being made about the whole "Made defends Enrique" by Epi, then Enrique says he suspects Made, then goes back (and yes, points to this change directly, but still) and defends Made again. I know I had suspected him earlier in the game, then didn't really look back at him because of Made, but I will definitely re-read him.

I have more thoughts, but God I'm starving and I'm going to visit friends I haven't seen in ages tonight, so I'm going to leave my thoughts there for now (also, my posts serve as an excellent bookmark for myself when I will probably have to catch up again tomorrow :P). Unless something radical happens, my vote will go again to Made.

[Enrique]

3) My thoughts haven't changed on Made. Yes, the major argument is that his game this time around has been markedly different from any other game we've played with him, and he was Civvie in all those games. I believe this is a valid argument because, as someone mentioned (I'm sorry for the "someones" instead of actual names, but I just spent an hour catching up and I'm not going back through at the moment for specifics; ask if you want them), he was more helpful/speculative then. In other games he spent the majority of time filling the thread with speculations and bouncing ideas off with other people. Sometimes it was helpful, other times it made things a lot harder for those of us who check in periodically to keep up with the thread to, well, keep up, since he was so ridiculously talkative. But this game? He talks little, and harps on the same points, then disappears when the conversation gets back to him between several people (not just one or two). He's doing almost no idea bouncing this game. And it's not like he hasn't been busy in other games (he was practicing for tests, etc. and said so in the thread). That looks like a baddie flying under the radar. So his behavior is not only "different," but not particularly helpful to the Civvie cause.

I get the impression he's just not as invested in this game. It happens to a lot of people, and it happens a lot. I could name up to 10 other players in this game who have been a lot less involved.

then Enrique says he suspects Made

That didn't happen.

[Turnip Head]

Juliets I still feel like there's something off about Hedgeowl that can't be explained by Internet problems or being bad in other games. My gut says she's hiding something but it's not anything specific that I can point to. I've still got my eye on her but I have other suspects for today.

[juliets]

Ok thanks TH.

[Hedgeowl]

Juliets I still feel like there's something off about Hedgeowl that can't be explained by Internet problems or being bad in other games. My gut says she's hiding something but it's not anything specific that I can point to. I've still got my eye on her but I have other suspects for today.

Ok, well let me know if you have any questions. Your wrong about me, but I can't argue with a gut.

[keys56000000000]

I ain't gonna lie, it's a little too quiet without MP posting..

[Snow Dog]

I ain't gonna lie, it's a little too quiet without MP posting..

You are hard to please

[Marmot]

I ain't gonna lie, it's a little too quiet without MP posting..

I just ran a race today. While I am just lazing around right now, I'm too tired to try and make any quality mafia posts right now.

[keys56000000000]

I ain't gonna lie, it's a little too quiet without MP posting..

You are hard to please

Hey, you wanna get lynched again? ;p

[Dom]

I want Enrique to explain honeytongued viridescence survived.
MP submergence Elo have explained.

I don't know >_> It's not a part of my role, and while I did receive a recruitment boon, it wasn't anything this big and it's been spent for a while. I can only assume The Master got blocked, or I got protected or something. Regardless, I'm glad it didn't go through.

@Snow Dog: I kinda disagree with the idea that self-preservation "isn't very civvie," since the only people we can be 100% confident on in this game is ourselves. Made didn't even do that, though, he kept his vote for Dom which was the only one. What opportunity did he jump on? Of course he wasn't gonna vote himself..

Honestly, I don't know if there's much more to this case on Made than "he's playing differently" which makes me wary of voting for him. I mean, there's the possibility of a save, but again... how could you possibly pull off a save where this guy had 5 votes and the final lynchee had only one an hour before the lynch? No team has the numbers to pull that off, and even if they did it'd be pretty dumb to all stack their votes on the same player instead of a lynch frontrunner. Made's voters yesterday were pretty much all drive bys, so I'm not sure why we're suddenly giving that "case" so much importance.

So yeah I guess I'm defending him now, I just don't get why people are so insistent that he must be the "focus" today.

Have you even read a single post I have made about Made? You are COMPLETELY misrepresenting the facts. Completely.

[Marmot]

I've updated the role information we have with w's. The Dalek Sec lost a couple of "will"s, but the Master remained unchanged/

If someone targets a member of your team wiTh a night action, you can conduct a -a--ing? experiment on them. A coin is then tossed. If heads, the night action will --t---- and you flip a coin again. If tails, nothing happens. If the coin lands heads on the second flip, that player ---- not be able to effectively target your team in any -a- (nothing is ----- --t--) for the remainder of the game. If tails, the night action stops ---- --t----, but there are no other effects.

The first three attempts on his life will be blocked. Every night, he attempts to find Lucy Saxon, his wife/----a-----[companion?]. If he finds her, they gain BTSC. Due to his strong ability as a scientist, once in the game he can block[?] every night action that night to be randomly redirected at someone other than the original target. This is up to and including kill attempts.

[Dom]

I've updated the role information we have with w's. The Dalek Sec lost a couple of "will"s, but the Master remained unchanged/

If someone targets a member of your team wiTh a night action, you can conduct a -a--ing? experiment on them. A coin is then tossed. If heads, the night action will --t---- and you flip a coin again. If tails, nothing happens. If the coin lands heads on the second flip, that player ---- not be able to effectively target your team in any -a- (nothing is ----- --t--) for the remainder of the game. If tails, the night action stops ---- --t----, but there are no other effects.

The first three attempts on his life will be blocked. Every night, he attempts to find Lucy Saxon, his wife/----a-----[companion?]. If he finds her, they gain BTSC. Due to his strong ability as a scientist, once in the game he can block[?] every night action that night to be randomly redirected at someone other than the original target. This is up to and including kill attempts.

Dalek Sec sounds really dangerous.

[Epignosis]

What's up, Dom?

[Dom]

What's up, Dom?

I dunno.
I really suspect Made and would like to vote him.

I appreciate that you think Enrique is bad, but feel more strongly about Made- ya feel?

[Elohcin]

I just wanted to speak up and say that I am following along in the thread, but I don't have anything to add to the discussions. Does that ever happen to you?

[Epignosis]

I just wanted to speak up and say that I am following along in the thread, but I don't have anything to add to the discussions. Does that ever happen to you?

"Never."

-MP

[Dom]

Epig, do you think my concerns with Made are valid?

[Epignosis]

Epig, do you think my concerns with Made are valid?

Uno momento por favor.

[sabie12]

Dom, I also have been suspecting Made but at the same time it seems like Made and Enrique are potentially attempting to protect each other through their posts but I'm not sure. And Enrique surviving that NK is kind of suspicious as well, so I'm not sure which one I will vote this lynch.

[Epignosis]

Enrique thought Ep1 was bad...

Honestly, I don't think MP is bad here [...]

Epig on the other hand? Oh yeah. Maybe it's just that our styles don't mesh; last game I thought he was bad (which he kinda was?) and as far as I remember he also thought I was bad (which was only the case part of the time). That was a very quick vote for me for very little reason. Two votes within the first 5 minutes of the day, honestly I was scared of the bandwagon forming but that seems to have calmed down.

...but voted alongside Ep1 after Ep1 brought up jul1ets. Enrique even tried to make it seem like lynching jul1ets was his original idea:

I read juliets' post on me a good 20 mins ago before I started catching up, and I feel pretty comfortable throwing my vote there. "What does it mean to be opportunistic?" you ask? OK, to me, you were extremely opportunistic to see nothing in me until I started getting the votes. Random drive-by from Nikki who has never made a post about me, Dom voting because he "suspects me" yet offering little to no reason. So what you do is you hop into the one standing vote for me that had any kind of thought out reasoning behind it, since it doesn't look like anybody else is getting lynched. But then you're called out on it, and nope, you weren't actually compelled to vote for me! This is serious, jules, my life is at stake!

Day 2?

Voted. Not sure what I was waiting for.

Oh so Bass voted for me. Cool. Look forward to hearing a reason.

There was more dancing on Day 2 than there was actual substance from Enrique, but I'll let others comb through that ballroom. Enrique demanded others give a reason when they voted for him, but he didn't come up with one until near the end.

All these people online who haven't voted are making me nervous. So easy to switch the tide at the last possible second.

Why should this make him nervous? Think about it folks: We can switch our votes here as often as we like. What difference does it make that people were online and hadn't voted? This concern was a VOID concern. It gives the sense of urgency without there actually being any.

Three civilian lynches- the only one to participate in all three. Where is Long Con now to say someone is Mafia hiding in plain sight? Ah, there he is- "suspecting" both Enrique and Made but voting for Made.

I think Enrique needs to go, and I'm not even done saying it.

[Epignosis]

To answer your question more directly, Dom, it looks to me like Enrique is still dancing and his partner Long Con is trying to suspect him while protecting him.

[Epignosis]

Epig, do you think my concerns with Made are valid?

English teacher fail.

I didn't directly address your question at all.

Initially, Made said he missed something I said, and subsequently said he misread it. I thought teammates had filled him in on something, and he screwed up. I pressured. Response: lashing out, no u, misrepresentation. Then, he got very angry, and that read as even more baddie. He seems cornered.

It has also been said that Made has been behaving differently than in other games. My sample size is small, but I'd say "lashing out, no u, misrepresentation" is par for the course when he's good.

If I am suspicious of Made, it's because he's defended Enrique, who moves around more than Bill Clinton's underwear.

[Long Con]

That's not accurate, I have never defended Enrique. The post you quoted earlier where I discussed Made and Enrique was intended to convey that I'm suspicious of both. I chose Made for this lynch because of the value we may find in regards to the Snow Dog lynch.

Obviously you suspect me now, so that's something. I'm not a baddie this time.

[Epignosis]

That's not accurate, I have never defended Enrique. The post you quoted earlier where I discussed Made and Enrique was intended to convey that I'm suspicious of both. I chose Made for this lynch because of the value we may find in regards to the Snow Dog lynch.

I didn't say you defended Enrique. I said that you are protecting him. If you think they are both bad, then why vote for Made instead of Enrique?

[Dom]

Epig, do you think my concerns with Made are valid?

English teacher fail.

I didn't directly address your question at all.

Initially, Made said he missed something I said, and subsequently said he misread it. I thought teammates had filled him in on something, and he screwed up. I pressured. Response: lashing out, no u, misrepresentation. Then, he got very angry, and that read as even more baddie. He seems cornered.

It has also been said that Made has been behaving differently than in other games. My sample size is small, but I'd say "lashing out, no u, misrepresentation" is par for the course when he's good.

If I am suspicious of Made, it's because he's defended Enrique, who moves around more than Bill Clinton's underwear.

LOL I was very confused!! Address the prompt!!

Would you like my input on LC?
I doubt he's bad, to be honest. I doubt a baddie LC would be this quiet. I really do find Enrique to be suspicious. Earlier, I remember this exchange:

I see Epi - thats what I mean about things slipping through that seem small that add up to something bigger. I'll be interested to see what Enrique has to say about your observation.

I can tell you I thought all 3 were bad at the time, and that I really didn't expect a Snow Dog lynch to actually happen that day (or Epig at the time I voted for that matter). I've chosen poorly but considering all 3 of you got lynched it's not exactly like I'm the only one.

Am I interpreting this correctly? That you vote for people you don't think will actually get lynched?

Tell me how that's a civilian strategy. :wonka:

Oh, I missed this post.

I voted for the person I was the most suspicious of... do you actually expect me to be lynched every time you vote for me? I don't understand this argument.

And I realized Enrique never actually addressed the question you posed there. That bother(s)(ed) me.

[Epignosis]

I cannot recall when I have ever played with LC that he was good. I think he's been evil in every game I've played with him. I'm willing to admit that might tinge my perception here. But all this does smell.

[Enrique]

Enrique thought Ep1 was bad...

Honestly, I don't think MP is bad here [...]

Epig on the other hand? Oh yeah. Maybe it's just that our styles don't mesh; last game I thought he was bad (which he kinda was?) and as far as I remember he also thought I was bad (which was only the case part of the time). That was a very quick vote for me for very little reason. Two votes within the first 5 minutes of the day, honestly I was scared of the bandwagon forming but that seems to have calmed down.

...but voted alongside Ep1 after Ep1 brought up jul1ets. Enrique even tried to make it seem like lynching jul1ets was his original idea:

I read juliets' post on me a good 20 mins ago before I started catching up, and I feel pretty comfortable throwing my vote there. "What does it mean to be opportunistic?" you ask? OK, to me, you were extremely opportunistic to see nothing in me until I started getting the votes. Random drive-by from Nikki who has never made a post about me, Dom voting because he "suspects me" yet offering little to no reason. So what you do is you hop into the one standing vote for me that had any kind of thought out reasoning behind it, since it doesn't look like anybody else is getting lynched. But then you're called out on it, and nope, you weren't actually compelled to vote for me! This is serious, jules, my life is at stake!

Because obviously, you are the only player capable of picking up on potential baddie behavior. I didn't follow your vote for juliets, that's absolute bullshit, I have my own reasons and followed through on the player I thought was likeliest to be bad. I did express suspicion of you first, and finally gave in to it on Day 2:

Day 2?

Voted. Not sure what I was waiting for.

Oh so Bass voted for me. Cool. Look forward to hearing a reason.

There was more dancing on Day 2 than there was actual substance from Enrique, but I'll let others comb through that ballroom. Enrique demanded others give a reason when they voted for him, but he didn't come up with one until near the end.

But wait, you literally just brought up how I found you suspicious? You honestly don't think I ever made a post about you? Do I need to link all of those now? The post you quoted before is essential here. You turned out civvie, so clearly, the problem here is that our playstyles don't mesh. But you were still hella suspicious and honestly I don't think you've contributed anything to the civvie cause all game. So how's that?

All these people online who haven't voted are making me nervous. So easy to switch the tide at the last possible second.

Why should this make him nervous? Think about it folks: We can switch our votes here as often as we like. What difference does it make that people were online and hadn't voted? This concern was a VOID concern. It gives the sense of urgency without there actually being any.

This is such a terrible argument. So last second saves aren't a thing in the universe from where you play mafia? It was a tight lynch with several votes still missing, perfectly open for manipulation. I had multiple people agree with me on this point, and guess what? We had a last second vote-change from Snow Dog (I think his third change in that phase alone after asking about anyone who he should vote for) and up to six people thought that was worth lynching him for.

Three civilian lynches- the only one to participate in all three. Where is Long Con now to say someone is Mafia hiding in plain sight? Ah, there he is- "suspecting" both Enrique and Made but voting for Made.

I think Enrique needs to go, and I'm not even done saying it.

"Hiding in plain sight" wasn't a valid argument when LC used it against you, was it? So why the hell do you think I'd spend every lynch on this game having a civvie killed? Clearly my judgement hasn't been on point but it's bullshit to pin all of this on me. If you get me lynched today, which is a strong possibility considering I'm pretty much starting the day with 3 votes, I'll find some comfort in knowing the thread will know how full of shit you are. Don't pretend you're an expert baddie hunter, Epignosis, you're embarrassing yourself.

To answer your question more directly, Dom, it looks to me like Enrique is still dancing and his partner Long Con is trying to suspect him while protecting him.

Oh, man, LC too? How many partners does that leave me at? I don't think there's a team with sufficient space for me, LC, Made, Dana and MP together. Never mind one that would be outed so quickly.

Epig, do you think my concerns with Made are valid?

English teacher fail.

I didn't directly address your question at all.

Initially, Made said he missed something I said, and subsequently said he misread it. I thought teammates had filled him in on something, and he screwed up. I pressured. Response: lashing out, no u, misrepresentation. Then, he got very angry, and that read as even more baddie. He seems cornered.

It has also been said that Made has been behaving differently than in other games. My sample size is small, but I'd say "lashing out, no u, misrepresentation" is par for the course when he's good.

If I am suspicious of Made, it's because he's defended Enrique, who moves around more than Bill Clinton's underwear.

Move around where? Can you please cite some examples? Because I don't know what the hell you're talking about.

That's not accurate, I have never defended Enrique. The post you quoted earlier where I discussed Made and Enrique was intended to convey that I'm suspicious of both. I chose Made for this lynch because of the value we may find in regards to the Snow Dog lynch.

Obviously you suspect me now, so that's something. I'm not a baddie this time.

Wait, so was I wrong to interpret this post

Epig, you assume you get better as you go. I posit that your ego may convince you that you are a improving, despite evidence to the contrary.

as you sharing my view that Epignosis is full of shit? Because that's how it reads to me. He has no idea what he's talking about, he just got a hate boner for me and needs to get it out of his system somehow. Regardless of what my role turns out to be, he'll feel like he proved a point somehow, and I'm honestly really annoyed by that.

Don't know what you're doing, Epig, but if you actually think I'm bad then you can probably make some sort of case without all the misrepresentation and hypocrisy.

linki- What? How did not I address his point? His was a ridiculous question, can hardly even call it a point. I don't vote for whoever I think will be lynched at any given day, that's just stupid.

[Epignosis]

Ooo...just as I was getting ready to turn in. That's all right. I can use another beer.

[Enrique]

Oh, it's fine, take your time. I don't think I'll be back tonight and if I am probably not in a state to mafia But come on dude, don't let some lynchboner that you got on Day 0 dictate your behavior for the rest of your game.

[Long Con]

That's not accurate, I have never defended Enrique. The post you quoted earlier where I discussed Made and Enrique was intended to convey that I'm suspicious of both. I chose Made for this lynch because of the value we may find in regards to the Snow Dog lynch.

I didn't say you defended Enrique. I said that you are protecting him. If you think they are both bad, then why vote for Made instead of Enrique?

I said why I voted for Made.

[Epignosis]

Because obviously, you are the only player capable of picking up on potential baddie behavior. I didn't follow your vote for juliets, that's absolute bullshit, I have my own reasons and followed through on the player I thought was likeliest to be bad.

Not buying it. If I had not brought it up, NO ONE would have voted for juliets. Including you. If I hadn't said anything against juliets, you wouldn't have said anything about her. Would you like to know how I know that? Because you only interacted with juliets once, and you agreed with her. It wasn't until I made my case against her that you latched onto it like a leech. And then you turn around and lynch poor K9.

I did express suspicion of you first, and finally gave in to it on Day 2:

Day 2?

Voted. Not sure what I was waiting for.

Oh so Bass voted for me. Cool. Look forward to hearing a reason.

There was more dancing on Day 2 than there was actual substance from Enrique, but I'll let others comb through that ballroom. Enrique demanded others give a reason when they voted for him, but he didn't come up with one until near the end.

But wait, you literally just brought up how I found you suspicious? You honestly don't think I ever made a post about you? Do I need to link all of those now? The post you quoted before is essential here.

I don't need to ask Mafia why they found civilians suspicious. I understand their reasons.

You turned out civvie, so clearly, the problem here is that our playstyles don't mesh.

The vilest word in Mafia is "clearly," which is both an evil adverb and one that assumes everyone agrees with you. I don't have a play style. People think I do. I don't. I do whatever amuses me at the time. You may have a play style, and I have no problem with yours. The problem is that you got a bad role, and that you didn't do a very good job on Day 1 concealing it.

But you were still hella suspicious and honestly I don't think you've contributed anything to the civvie cause all game. So how's that?

Ah, I'm still suspicious and haven't contributed.

Well now, let's see.

I got one civilian lynched. You nailed three in a row- well done. I want to lynch you and have been wanting to since Day 1. You say things like "hella suspicious." Since you've leveled this accusation against me, what have YOU contributed to the civilian cause? Besides reducing their numbers and making it easier for them to figure out who's bad, I mean.

All these people online who haven't voted are making me nervous. So easy to switch the tide at the last possible second.

Why should this make him nervous? Think about it folks: We can switch our votes here as often as we like. What difference does it make that people were online and hadn't voted? This concern was a VOID concern. It gives the sense of urgency without there actually being any.

This is such a terrible argument. So last second saves aren't a thing in the universe from where you play mafia? It was a tight lynch with several votes still missing, perfectly open for manipulation. I had multiple people agree with me on this point, and guess what? We had a last second vote-change from Snow Dog (I think his third change in that phase alone after asking about anyone who he should vote for) and up to six people thought that was worth lynching him for.

Really tempted to vote for Snow Dog. That last minute vote change doesn't sit well with me at all.

Including you. You voted Snow Dog over a vote change. That's it. No other reason given.

I guess I'm switching to Snow Dog for now, just to get it off LC.

Linki MM: Why should I vote Made?

To save Snow Dog / Hedgie, duh.

Duh indeed.

You think Made is good and people were trying to save Snow Dog or Hedgeowl? So...are you going to vote Hedgeowl? Of course not. You need to see which way the wind is blowing. You need to see someone call out someone who mistakenly posted in another thread. You need to see some support against someone who wants to lynch you. You need to see someone switch his vote.

You have no real suspicions. You are (to use a term that maintains currency with my students) "fake."

Three civilian lynches- the only one to participate in all three. Where is Long Con now to say someone is Mafia hiding in plain sight? Ah, there he is- "suspecting" both Enrique and Made but voting for Made.

I think Enrique needs to go, and I'm not even done saying it.

"Hiding in plain sight" wasn't a valid argument when LC used it against you, was it? So why the hell do you think I'd spend every lynch on this game having a civvie killed? Clearly my judgement hasn't been on point but it's bullshit to pin all of this on me.

Because you're bad?

Ugh, and "clearly" again. Get that shit out of here.

If you get me lynched today, which is a strong possibility considering I'm pretty much starting the day with 3 votes, I'll find some comfort in knowing the thread will know how full of shit you are. Don't pretend you're an expert baddie hunter, Epignosis, you're embarrassing yourself.

Sorry. I choose to pretend I'm an Expert Baddie Hunter. It's fun. Bet you don't even know any real expert baddie hunters.

To answer your question more directly, Dom, it looks to me like Enrique is still dancing and his partner Long Con is trying to suspect him while protecting him.

Oh, man, LC too? How many partners does that leave me at? I don't think there's a team with sufficient space for me, LC, Made, Dana and MP together. Never mind one that would be outed so quickly.

When you're gone, I'll work out your teammates. That's because I'm pretending to be an expert baddie hunter for the next couple of weeks. I even have a badge!

Epig, do you think my concerns with Made are valid?

English teacher fail.

I didn't directly address your question at all.

Initially, Made said he missed something I said, and subsequently said he misread it. I thought teammates had filled him in on something, and he screwed up. I pressured. Response: lashing out, no u, misrepresentation. Then, he got very angry, and that read as even more baddie. He seems cornered.

It has also been said that Made has been behaving differently than in other games. My sample size is small, but I'd say "lashing out, no u, misrepresentation" is par for the course when he's good.

If I am suspicious of Made, it's because he's defended Enrique, who moves around more than Bill Clinton's underwear.

Move around where? Can you please cite some examples? Because I don't know what the hell you're talking about.

You vote with Ep1 against jul1ets, then vote against Ep1. You vote with MM against Snow Dog and then say you're going to vote against MM. That's moving around. I would like you to stop moving altogether.

That's not accurate, I have never defended Enrique. The post you quoted earlier where I discussed Made and Enrique was intended to convey that I'm suspicious of both. I chose Made for this lynch because of the value we may find in regards to the Snow Dog lynch.

Obviously you suspect me now, so that's something. I'm not a baddie this time.

Wait, so was I wrong to interpret this post

Epig, you assume you get better as you go. I posit that your ego may convince you that you are a improving, despite evidence to the contrary.

as you sharing my view that Epignosis is full of shit? Because that's how it reads to me. He has no idea what he's talking about, he just got a hate boner for me and needs to get it out of his system somehow. Regardless of what my role turns out to be, he'll feel like he proved a point somehow, and I'm honestly really annoyed by that.

You just uttered four different thoughts here. "Full of shit" means I'm lying. "No idea" what I'm talking about means I'm ignorant. A "hate boner" is something I will interpret as a sad youthful example of figurative language meaning "I don't like you." "Proving a point" means I have a point and I mean to prove it no matter what, win conditions be damned. All four scenarios cannot possibly be true.

Yes, I daresay I would be quite annoyed if I were that confused.

Don't know what you're doing, Epig, but if you actually think I'm bad then you can probably make some sort of case without all the misrepresentation and hypocrisy.

Yeah, Snow Dog could've used a case. "Really tempted to vote for Snow Dog. That last minute vote change doesn't sit well with me at all." That's all you gave him.

But how's this post? Is this case enough for you?

linki- What? How did not I address his point? His was a ridiculous question, can hardly even call it a point. I don't vote for whoever I think will be lynched at any given day, that's just stupid.

For context, I'll put this here:

I see Epi - thats what I mean about things slipping through that seem small that add up to something bigger. I'll be interested to see what Enrique has to say about your observation.

I can tell you I thought all 3 were bad at the time, and that I really didn't expect a Snow Dog lynch to actually happen that day (or Epig at the time I voted for that matter). I've chosen poorly but considering all 3 of you got lynched it's not exactly like I'm the only one.

Am I interpreting this correctly? That you vote for people you don't think will actually get lynched?

Tell me how that's a civilian strategy. :wonka:

Oh, I missed this post.

I voted for the person I was the most suspicious of... do you actually expect me to be lynched every time you vote for me? I don't understand this argument.

[Black Rock]

I found Epig's points about Made repeatedly defending you, Enrique, coupled with the Made save seeming last lynch, compounded by Epig and BR unrelentingly suspecting you... To be very convincing. My vote will go to Made.

You disappoint me. Maybe BR unrelenting suspecting Enrique would make you vote Enrique. It just makes more sense to me. I knew those cold drugs were messing with your mind but...

[Black Rock]

Yes I agree. I think Made needs to be the top priority today, though I'm more suspicious of MP myself.

Forget about MP and look into Enrique, I'm not crazy here, half his responses reek of baddie.

[Black Rock]

I want Enrique to explain honeytongued viridescence survived.
MP submergence Elo have explained.

I don't know >_> It's not a part of my role, and while I did receive a recruitment boon, it wasn't anything this big and it's been spent for a while. I can only assume The Master got blocked, or I got protected or something. Regardless, I'm glad it didn't go through.

@Snow Dog: I kinda disagree with the idea that self-preservation "isn't very civvie," since the only people we can be 100% confident on in this game is ourselves. Made didn't even do that, though, he kept his vote for Dom which was the only one. What opportunity did he jump on? Of course he wasn't gonna vote himself..

Honestly, I don't know if there's much more to this case on Made than "he's playing differently" which makes me wary of voting for him. I mean, there's the possibility of a save, but again... how could you possibly pull off a save where this guy had 5 votes and the final lynchee had only one an hour before the lynch? No team has the numbers to pull that off, and even if they did it'd be pretty dumb to all stack their votes on the same player instead of a lynch frontrunner. Made's voters yesterday were pretty much all drive bys, so I'm not sure why we're suddenly giving that "case" so much importance.

So yeah I guess I'm defending him now, I just don't get why people are so insistent that he must be the "focus" today.

Have you even read a single post I have made about Made? You are COMPLETELY misrepresenting the facts. Completely.

He's done that a lot this game. You should reread him. He even tried to do that on what little posts I have made.

I'm voting now. Guess who for...

[Black Rock]

I just wanted to speak up and say that I am following along in the thread, but I don't have anything to add to the discussions. Does that ever happen to you?

All the time!

Sorry about all the multi-posts but I only have my phone and can't multi-quote.

[Black Rock]

I cannot recall when I have ever played with LC that he was good. I think he's been evil in every game I've played with him. I'm willing to admit that might tinge my perception here. But all this does smell.

That's not true, you've lynched a civvie LC atleast once on rev if not twice.

[Long Con]

I cannot recall when I have ever played with LC that he was good. I think he's been evil in every game I've played with him. I'm willing to admit that might tinge my perception here. But all this does smell.

I get that a lot, actually. When I do good, no one remembers; when I do bad, no one forgets.

[zeek]

<snip> We had a last second vote-change from Snow Dog <snip>

Thats not true, he panoplied in bed tedge before the deadline.

[Snow Dog]

I just wanted to speak up and say that I am following along in the thread, but I don't have anything to add to the discussions. Does that ever happen to you?

All the time.

[Snow Dog]

Because obviously, you are the only player capable of picking up on potential baddie behavior. I didn't follow your vote for juliets, that's absolute bullshit, I have my own reasons and followed through on the player I thought was likeliest to be bad.

Not buying it. If I had not brought it up, NO ONE would have voted for juliets. Including you. If I hadn't said anything against juliets, you wouldn't have said anything about her. Would you like to know how I know that? Because you only interacted with juliets once, and you agreed with her. It wasn't until I made my case against her that you latched onto it like a leech. And then you turn around and lynch poor K9.

I did express suspicion of you first, and finally gave in to it on Day 2:

Day 2?

Voted. Not sure what I was waiting for.

Oh so Bass voted for me. Cool. Look forward to hearing a reason.

There was more dancing on Day 2 than there was actual substance from Enrique, but I'll let others comb through that ballroom. Enrique demanded others give a reason when they voted for him, but he didn't come up with one until near the end.

But wait, you literally just brought up how I found you suspicious? You honestly don't think I ever made a post about you? Do I need to link all of those now? The post you quoted before is essential here.

I don't need to ask Mafia why they found civilians suspicious. I understand their reasons.

You turned out civvie, so clearly, the problem here is that our playstyles don't mesh.

The vilest word in Mafia is "clearly," which is both an evil adverb and one that assumes everyone agrees with you. I don't have a play style. People think I do. I don't. I do whatever amuses me at the time. You may have a play style, and I have no problem with yours. The problem is that you got a bad role, and that you didn't do a very good job on Day 1 concealing it.

But you were still hella suspicious and honestly I don't think you've contributed anything to the civvie cause all game. So how's that?

Ah, I'm still suspicious and haven't contributed.

Well now, let's see.

I got one civilian lynched. You nailed three in a row- well done. I want to lynch you and have been wanting to since Day 1. You say things like "hella suspicious." Since you've leveled this accusation against me, what have YOU contributed to the civilian cause? Besides reducing their numbers and making it easier for them to figure out who's bad, I mean.

All these people online who haven't voted are making me nervous. So easy to switch the tide at the last possible second.

Why should this make him nervous? Think about it folks: We can switch our votes here as often as we like. What difference does it make that people were online and hadn't voted? This concern was a VOID concern. It gives the sense of urgency without there actually being any.

This is such a terrible argument. So last second saves aren't a thing in the universe from where you play mafia? It was a tight lynch with several votes still missing, perfectly open for manipulation. I had multiple people agree with me on this point, and guess what? We had a last second vote-change from Snow Dog (I think his third change in that phase alone after asking about anyone who he should vote for) and up to six people thought that was worth lynching him for.

Really tempted to vote for Snow Dog. That last minute vote change doesn't sit well with me at all.

Including you. You voted Snow Dog over a vote change. That's it. No other reason given.

I guess I'm switching to Snow Dog for now, just to get it off LC.

Linki MM: Why should I vote Made?

To save Snow Dog / Hedgie, duh.

Duh indeed.

You think Made is good and people were trying to save Snow Dog or Hedgeowl? So...are you going to vote Hedgeowl? Of course not. You need to see which way the wind is blowing. You need to see someone call out someone who mistakenly posted in another thread. You need to see some support against someone who wants to lynch you. You need to see someone switch his vote.

You have no real suspicions. You are (to use a term that maintains currency with my students) "fake."

Three civilian lynches- the only one to participate in all three. Where is Long Con now to say someone is Mafia hiding in plain sight? Ah, there he is- "suspecting" both Enrique and Made but voting for Made.

I think Enrique needs to go, and I'm not even done saying it.

"Hiding in plain sight" wasn't a valid argument when LC used it against you, was it? So why the hell do you think I'd spend every lynch on this game having a civvie killed? Clearly my judgement hasn't been on point but it's bullshit to pin all of this on me.

Because you're bad?

Ugh, and "clearly" again. Get that shit out of here.

If you get me lynched today, which is a strong possibility considering I'm pretty much starting the day with 3 votes, I'll find some comfort in knowing the thread will know how full of shit you are. Don't pretend you're an expert baddie hunter, Epignosis, you're embarrassing yourself.

Sorry. I choose to pretend I'm an Expert Baddie Hunter. It's fun. Bet you don't even know any real expert baddie hunters.

To answer your question more directly, Dom, it looks to me like Enrique is still dancing and his partner Long Con is trying to suspect him while protecting him.

Oh, man, LC too? How many partners does that leave me at? I don't think there's a team with sufficient space for me, LC, Made, Dana and MP together. Never mind one that would be outed so quickly.

When you're gone, I'll work out your teammates. That's because I'm pretending to be an expert baddie hunter for the next couple of weeks. I even have a badge!

Epig, do you think my concerns with Made are valid?

English teacher fail.

I didn't directly address your question at all.

Initially, Made said he missed something I said, and subsequently said he misread it. I thought teammates had filled him in on something, and he screwed up. I pressured. Response: lashing out, no u, misrepresentation. Then, he got very angry, and that read as even more baddie. He seems cornered.

It has also been said that Made has been behaving differently than in other games. My sample size is small, but I'd say "lashing out, no u, misrepresentation" is par for the course when he's good.

If I am suspicious of Made, it's because he's defended Enrique, who moves around more than Bill Clinton's underwear.

Move around where? Can you please cite some examples? Because I don't know what the hell you're talking about.

You vote with Ep1 against jul1ets, then vote against Ep1. You vote with MM against Snow Dog and then say you're going to vote against MM. That's moving around. I would like you to stop moving altogether.

That's not accurate, I have never defended Enrique. The post you quoted earlier where I discussed Made and Enrique was intended to convey that I'm suspicious of both. I chose Made for this lynch because of the value we may find in regards to the Snow Dog lynch.

Obviously you suspect me now, so that's something. I'm not a baddie this time.

Wait, so was I wrong to interpret this post

Epig, you assume you get better as you go. I posit that your ego may convince you that you are a improving, despite evidence to the contrary.

as you sharing my view that Epignosis is full of shit? Because that's how it reads to me. He has no idea what he's talking about, he just got a hate boner for me and needs to get it out of his system somehow. Regardless of what my role turns out to be, he'll feel like he proved a point somehow, and I'm honestly really annoyed by that.

You just uttered four different thoughts here. "Full of shit" means I'm lying. "No idea" what I'm talking about means I'm ignorant. A "hate boner" is something I will interpret as a sad youthful example of figurative language meaning "I don't like you." "Proving a point" means I have a point and I mean to prove it no matter what, win conditions be damned. All four scenarios cannot possibly be true.

Yes, I daresay I would be quite annoyed if I were that confused.

Don't know what you're doing, Epig, but if you actually think I'm bad then you can probably make some sort of case without all the misrepresentation and hypocrisy.

Yeah, Snow Dog could've used a case. "Really tempted to vote for Snow Dog. That last minute vote change doesn't sit well with me at all." That's all you gave him.

But how's this post? Is this case enough for you?

linki- What? How did not I address his point? His was a ridiculous question, can hardly even call it a point. I don't vote for whoever I think will be lynched at any given day, that's just stupid.

For context, I'll put this here:

I see Epi - thats what I mean about things slipping through that seem small that add up to something bigger. I'll be interested to see what Enrique has to say about your observation.

I can tell you I thought all 3 were bad at the time, and that I really didn't expect a Snow Dog lynch to actually happen that day (or Epig at the time I voted for that matter). I've chosen poorly but considering all 3 of you got lynched it's not exactly like I'm the only one.

Am I interpreting this correctly? That you vote for people you don't think will actually get lynched?

Tell me how that's a civilian strategy. :wonka:

Oh, I missed this post.

I voted for the person I was the most suspicious of... do you actually expect me to be lynched every time you vote for me? I don't understand this argument.

This argument against Enrique seems very convincing to me. Never really saw the case before before. Thanks Epi, enlightening.

[Chris]

*side note*

When making a post to a very recent, VERY LARGE post, on the same page, could we try to edit out the novel of text next time? Especially when responding with 19 words?


That being said, I am still VERY okay with voting MP. I may even be okay with a Made vote, but less so. However, I can be very easily convinced to switch my vote to Enrique.

I'm announcing now, that by the end of this day, I may switch my vote to Enrique, if I think that MP will not be lynched. (I don't want to be accused of a late switch, and then get lynched for it... Rico...)

[juliets]

*side note*

When making a post to a very recent, VERY LARGE post, on the same page, could we try to edit out the novel of text next time? Especially when responding with 19 words?


That being said, I am still VERY okay with voting MP. I may even be okay with a Made vote, but less so. However, I can be very easily convinced to switch my vote to Enrique.

I'm announcing now, that by the end of this day, I may switch my vote to Enrique, if I think that MP will not be lynched. (I don't want to be accused of a late switch, and then get lynched for it... Rico...)

I would also like to suggest that many times you only need to quote what the last person said of a multiple quote and respond. Or you can clip and take out all the extraneous posts. Trying to read these posts that are so full of quotes is not just tiring, it's hard to wade through and figure out. The simpler it is the easier it is to understand.

I re-read Made yesterday and prior to that re-read Dom's posts about him. Made says he is playing more like he played in Felt which he said was more analysis based. I'd like to aks those who played Felt if that was true of his play in Felt. I think I've got a good feel for how he played in Python and Misfits but was he really more like he is in this game in Felt? I may very well vote Made today.

I have not re-read Enrique yet but I agree Epi had some good points about him. Of course, Epi had some "good" points about juliets 1.0 too and he was wrong so I really want to look at Enrique's posts before I buy in. Some people have cited his survival as evidence of him being a baddie but we have characters who can survive who are civ. I'm not seeing anything bad about LC yet, though I may have a blind spot where he is concerned. I don't see that he is protecting Enrique. I may vote Enrique today depending on what I find.

I'm not seeing an MP vote today though I wonder if his not posting is just making suspicions about him recede into the background for me. Or, maybe the fact that I don't feel as suspicious of him means that the more he posts and says things the more I find to be suspicious of - maybe my suspicions are born of his frequency. Will be interesting to see how I feel when he starts posting again.

I've re-read Hedgie and didn't see anything else about her that causes me any gut bad feelings. I'll be interested to see what TH comes up with today, if he's able to find anything that speaks to his gut feel.

That's just a small status report on where I am with some people right now. Today will be a big day trying to read Enrique and potentially others while watching football.