Dr. Who Mafia - Night 12

[keys56000000000]

Enrique, you put up a great defense. I'm gonna give you a bye this round just because you said all the right things. I mean, you could be lying, but you performed well and that's something in my book.

Oh man, is Epig awesome or what? Guy's smack talk is getting me aroused over here.

It is good to have you back, MP! I felt like after you left, everyone turned to me, and without anything to offer them, they got frustrated, thinking "Wtf, new guy? We needed him!" I just pray to the great mafia gods that you are indeed a civvie, or else everyone's fucked!

I don't feel confident about anything atm. I guess I'm gonna vote Made.

[Enrique]

sabie, Made survived that lynch because SD got more votes than him, not any sort of secret power. I still don't get why you stopped voting for him though?

@TH: On that last point, to be fair, I have no idea what MM was doing and I questioned him on it too. He thought SD was likelier to be bad, but still wanted himself and Alex to vote for Made together instead of causing a tie. I don't know what he could've been trying to accomplish but I think it's fair to at least question him on it.

I also forgot that MP had voted for SD before, then switched it a couple times (or at least I'm assuming that happened? I remember his final vote being in the final minutes, he's too calm in the post you quoted). The Polls thread doesn't keep track of vote switches so it can be really hard to follow.

[Elohcin]

Wow, yeah...when you put it all together like that, TH, I definitely see your point about MP. If you don't think Enri is Made's teammate, do you think he could be on the other baddie team?

lots of linki

[Turnip Head]

I'm not very suspicious of Enrique myself but I admit to not following him as closely as I could, since I've had my eye on other suspects. However in most of his posts he comes across as extremely genuine to me, while MP and Made do not.

[Epignosis]

Enrique voted Made to save his own skin.

But Made hasn't voted Enrique.

[Turnip Head]

I don't see what point you're making If I was in Enrique's position I would try to save myself too. Made has not yet voted.

[Epignosis]

I don't see what point you're making If I was in Enrique's position I would try to save myself too. Made has not yet voted.

Read the Mafia roles.

[Elohcin]

Enrique voted Made to save his own skin.

But Made hasn't voted Enrique.

So do you think Made is civ or on the other baddie team?

[Turnip Head]

Do you think Enrique is the Cyberman Head with extra votes? Or do you think Made is the Emperor Dalek and can't be lynched?

[Chris]

Damn, you guys sure make it hard for a guy to decide who to vote...

[Epignosis]

Made has defended the shit out of Enrique. Enrique doesn't think Made is bad either. In a game with one bad team, defending civilians is a logical strategy if you are bad. In a game of two or more bad teams, defending "civilians" is a risk because you could wind up defending someone on the other team.

But when it comes down to the votes, now that it's clearly between Made and Enrique, Enrique is SWIFT to vote Made to save himself, but Made won't vote Enrique.

Huh.

Addendum: If you had a teammate who couldn't be lynched, you'd be okay voting for him, right?

[Tangrowth]

OK hold up MP, I was just looking at the poll instead of trying to remember what actually happened. You weren't just the fourth, you voted at the last possible second. SD had 3 votes to Made's 5 when you, Dana and MM all voted at the very last moment.

Do you think I had any idea that would happen when I voted for SD?

I think you're misunderstanding me. I don't necessarily think you saved Made. I don't even necessarily think you and Made are SUPREMELY connected, but I do acknowledge there is a connection.

I think either you, MM, or Gotrees MAYBE saved Made, but that's about all I've been saying.

Do you think Enrique is the Cyberman Head with extra votes? Or do you think Made is the Emperor Dalek and can't be lynched?

Enrique survived an NK. He is likely the Cyber Controller.

TH 2.0, I'll get to you other post in a second here.

Just find it odd you missed this since I said this several times and it seems a logical conclusion to make, yes?

[Chris]

Switching my vote to Rico for reasons.

*changes vote to Rico*

[Tangrowth]

I just lost the post I was working on because my laptop crashed. I'll try to hit the highlights again. Most of this is stuff I've posted before but it got very little traction and some people seem to have missed my points completely so I'll reiterate.

Here is why I think MP is Made's teammate, with a sprinkling of why I think Enrique is not.

I'm doing it to keep the baddies on edge, half my votes I don't really intend to be my 'final' votes unless something happens to make them that way. I had little intention of keeping my vote on LC although he is acting suspiciously.

I guess I'm switching to Snow Dog for now, just to get it off LC.

Linki MM: Why should I vote Made?

Weakly justifying his vote switch to hop on the Snow train. MP voted for LC mad early, and switched it to Snow Dog mad late despite still being suspicious of LC and not really having much to say about Snow. Enrique never changed his vote, he was one of the first to vote for Snowy but he seems to have done so independently and not because anyone else was trying to lynch Snow Dog. MP cannot say the same for himself.

I feel bad too since he just returned from a hiatus this game and he loves Doctor Who, but I voted the way I voted for a reason, and even though he can be wishy washy he usually can at least be a bit more assertive. I hope he's bad or else I'm going to feel extra bad about this one.

More weak justification and empty words ("I voted the way I voted for a reason") and expressing regret over his vote for Snowy before he has even been lynched. MP voted the way he did for a reason, yes, to save a teammate.

Linki well maybe not

MM if you feel more confident about Snowy than MAde now's your chance

Goading others into doing the same. Enrique never did this.

And then after the lynch, MP skittered into the shadows so he wouldn't have to take heat for this or accrue more suspicion. He's been content to let others run the Enrique bandwagon and now he's hopping on to save Made yet again.

I've already responded to a lot of this before, so I don't have much to say. In the end, I realize my behavior during the D3 lynch looks sketchy as hell, if Made flips bad, so that fact basically comes down to whether you believe me or not.

I already explained why I skittered into the shadows... with much detail. That is not why.

Also, you think I came in here with every intention to vote for Enrique? Because clearly by my giant post earlier I did not.

[Tangrowth]

Also, TH 2.0, what isn't coming across as genuine about my posts?

[Enrique]

Switching my vote to Rico for reasons.

*changes vote to Rico*

Can we hear them?

[Chris]

I hear ya MetalMarsh... I'm torn too...

I want to add:

DISCLAIMER: I reserve the right to change my vote to whomever I chose, at will.


Linki @ Rico: No... not yet anyway.

[Enrique]

I've updated the role information we have with w's. The Dalek Sec lost a couple of "will"s, but the Master remained unchanged/

If someone targets a member of your team wiTh a night action, you can conduct a -a--ing? experiment on them. A coin is then tossed. If heads, the night action will --t---- and you flip a coin again. If tails, nothing happens. If the coin lands heads on the second flip, that player ---- not be able to effectively target your team in any -a- (nothing is ----- --t--) for the remainder of the game. If tails, the night action stops ---- --t----, but there are no other effects.

The first three attempts on his life will be blocked. Every night, he attempts to find Lucy Saxon, his wife/----a-----[companion?]. If he finds her, they gain BTSC. Due to his strong ability as a scientist, once in the game he can block[?] every night action that night to be randomly redirected at someone other than the original target. This is up to and including kill attempts.

This is the only post MM has made today... you OK, Chris?

[Marmot]

Placing my vote from my phone on the road. I don't have time to read and respond due to limited service and driving, so I'm self-voting. Thanks everyone for not trying to lynch me today (yet...).

[Marmot]

I thought about voting Enrique but decided not to.

[Enrique]

That's...

a good time to show up.

[Turnip Head]

Enrique survived an NK. He is likely the Cyber Controller.

Just find it odd you missed this since I said this several times and it seems a logical conclusion to make, yes?

He is not "likely" the Cyber Controller. Isn't "likely" one of Epi's evil adverbs? That is simply speculation. Enrique could have survived by being a civvie role with protection or he could have survived due to something other than his role. Other players have survived kills as well, yourself included.

I do understand Epi's point that they could be teammates and Made has the unlynchable role.

[Chris]

I do understand Epi's point that they could be teammates and Made has the unlynchable role.

This is what I'm afraid of... The push to lynch Made under such weak reasoning has me thinking there was an ulterior motive.

That's one main reason I switched to Rico. But MP voted for Rico, and I was feeling that they were teammates.

But TH is making some DAMN good points.

[juliets]

I do understand Epi's point that they could be teammates and Made has the unlynchable role.

This is what I'm afraid of... The push to lynch Made under such weak reasoning has me thinking there was an ulterior motive.

That's one main reason I switched to Rico. But MP voted for Rico, and I was feeling that they were teammates.

But TH is making some DAMN good points.

But there has also been a push to lynch enrique - unless I'm not understanding your point.

[Turnip Head]

I thought about voting Enrique but decided not to.

You voted for yourself?

[Tangrowth]

Enrique survived an NK. He is likely the Cyber Controller.

Just find it odd you missed this since I said this several times and it seems a logical conclusion to make, yes?

He is not "likely" the Cyber Controller. Isn't "likely" one of Epi's evil adverbs? That is simply speculation. Enrique could have survived by being a civvie role with protection or he could have survived due to something other than his role. Other players have survived kills as well, yourself included.

I do understand Epi's point that they could be teammates and Made has the unlynchable role.

The difference is that Enrique has said multiple times he doesn't know how he survived.

[Tangrowth]

But yes, I will concede that it's possible he is not the Cyber Controller. That's why I proposed the suggestion I did earlier.

[Chris]

I do understand Epi's point that they could be teammates and Made has the unlynchable role.

This is what I'm afraid of... The push to lynch Made under such weak reasoning has me thinking there was an ulterior motive.

That's one main reason I switched to Rico. But MP voted for Rico, and I was feeling that they were teammates.

But TH is making some DAMN good points.

But there has also been a push to lynch enrique - unless I'm not understanding your point.

The push for Made was immediate.

The push for Rico came about more slowly.

Remember, I not comfortable with either choices at this point. I'm just more comfortable with voting Rico at the moment.

I'd still rather an MP vote.

[zeek]

Chris accentuation MetalMarsh

[S~V~S]

So if there's a tie, and one is civ and the other isn't the civ is gonna get lynched. Think about that Metalmarsh~ oh wait, you were THE ultimate Made saver yesterday, weren't you? So if Made's bad, and Enrique isn't, Enrique gets lynched anyhow with a tie. But if you break the tie in either direction, it looks bad for you.

If there's a tie, and a baddie is lynched, they are probably both baddies.

[Dom]

After finally catching up, I do find both Epi and Dom to make compelling points regarding their respective nemeses. However, I agree with SVS that Made was very likely saved, and I think that if Enrique is bad, he's teamed with Made. I feel more confident about Made being a baddie than Enrique overall though.

You think my points about Made are good?
Just curious, since when?

See, the thing about Made "being saved" is that if he was in fact saved, it was a very hasty and obvious save.

That's why I'm fearful that it wasn't a save...

Hi Made's teammate

Voted Made since that seems to be the only shot I have at surviving. Again, I'm the only player I can be 100% sure of, so I hope you guys are right and he's bad (in which case he needs 4 more votes... I'm totally fucked, ain't I?). I never thought there was much to Dom's case on him which I admittedly skimmed through a lot, but the chance is still there that he's bad so I'm taking it.

So, you skimmed my case on made, while characterizing it to be something it wasn't... so... blatant misinformation?

That's...

a good time to show up.

Because they're bad.

I hear ya MetalMarsh... I'm torn too...

I want to add:

DISCLAIMER: I reserve the right to change my vote to whomever I chose, at will.


Linki @ Rico: No... not yet anyway.

I don't believe for a second Chris didn't mean to post that first line anywhere but BTSC
I also don't believe for a second that Enrique actually went through the hall of fame to find out Epig's never won as a civ. Someone in his BTSC told him that.

Chris accentuation MetalMarsh

this.

I voted Made.
But i believe both to be bad.

[Enrique]

So, you skimmed my case on made, while characterizing it to be something it wasn't... so... blatant misinformation?

Y-yes. I read your earlier posts on him, and the later ones just seemed like you and Made going back and forth rehashing the same points. Can't say I gave them a lot of attention, but I thought I got the gist.

Dom, the Hall of Fame isn't exactly hard to navigate. Open thread, Ctrl+F "Epignosis" and went through like 4 results to see if he was a civ in those games. Given my history with him, it's not a stretch that I got curious.

[Chris]

@ Dom:

First, I'm not even going to address how stupid you have to think I am to have slipped up like that.

Second, you think Rico's bad, and I want to vote for Rico, bad for some reason, that makes me Made's teammate? You know, I wasn't the only one who thought that there wasn't a Made save. So, why am I his teammate suddenly?

[Tangrowth]

So, you skimmed my case on made, while characterizing it to be something it wasn't... so... blatant misinformation?

Y-yes. I read your earlier posts on him, and the later ones just seemed like you and Made going back and forth rehashing the same points. Can't say I gave them a lot of attention, but I thought I got the gist.

Dom, the Hall of Fame isn't exactly hard to navigate. Open thread, Ctrl+F "Epignosis" and went through like 4 results to see if he was a civ in those games. Given my history with him, it's not a stretch that I got curious.

So you went to The Hall of Fame and searched specifically by game?

[Enrique]

I do understand Epi's point that they could be teammates and Made has the unlynchable role.

This is what I'm afraid of... The push to lynch Made under such weak reasoning has me thinking there was an ulterior motive.

That's one main reason I switched to Rico. But MP voted for Rico, and I was feeling that they were teammates.

But TH is making some DAMN good points.

But there has also been a push to lynch enrique - unless I'm not understanding your point.

The push for Made was immediate.

The push for Rico came about more slowly.

Remember, I not comfortable with either choices at this point. I'm just more comfortable with voting Rico at the moment.

I'd still rather an MP vote.

I got 4 consecutive votes near the start of the day, would've been 5 if DF hadn't gotten in before MP. Or do you mean through the whole game? Because we've both been getting votes from the very beginning (and I actually didn't get any yesterday, whereas Made hardly survived).

linki- uh what? I did exactly what I said I did. There's a little box next to each game that says whether baddies or civvies won. You made the HoF, you know that.

[Tangrowth]

Enrique is likely lying. His Hall of Fame explanation doesn't make sense.

It would make the most sense to go to the Players: Overall chart, see how many times Epig has won, then visit the FEB chart, to see how many times Epig has won as a baddie.

Trying to skim through every full and speed game individually would take more time.

[Tangrowth]

ALSO, another problem is when you "Ctrl +F" Epignosis, most of the results you get are is hosting games, so you have to click like 12 times to discern his 4 wins.

Just doesn't make sense.

[Chris]

This:

I hear ya MetalMarsh... I'm torn too...

was a response to seeing MM do this:

I thought about voting Enrique but decided not to.

He had voted Rico, which I notcied because he voted as soon as I voted Rico, and it made me think about changing my mind. Then I saw that he took it off, and voted himself. A move I found somewhat odd, so I tried to engage him in conversation about it.

He didn't respond.

Oh, would you look at that, I responded to Dom's hilarious claim after all...

[Enrique]

Which I didn't do. I Ctrl+Fd and that was it. Your argument couldn't be any more contrived.

linki- Ctrl+F, Enter, Enter, Enter. Not hard.

[Tangrowth]

Which I didn't do. I Ctrl+Fd and that was it. Your argument couldn't be any more contrived.

linki- Ctrl+F, Enter, Enter, Enter. Not hard.

His name comes up a whopping 25 times, I just checked, also partially because I made every post in that thread and his name appears in my signature.

[Enrique]

Alex, it really isn't hard.

[Turnip Head]

Zeek switched his vote to Made, and then Keys switched his vote to Enrique.

[Tangrowth]

Alex, it really isn't hard.

My point is your explanation was partially vague and it doesn't make any sense at all. When you go to the HoF, the first post you find is the Index, which clearly states in big letters the Top Players Overall and Top FEBs Overall.

Epignosis is almost the last person I would "Ctrl + F" in there because he's hosted so many games. If I had tried that method, I would have seen, wow 25 results, and probably aborted.

I'm just making an observation.

[Tangrowth]

Zeek switched his vote to Made, and then Keys switched his vote to Enrique.

Thanks for pointing this out.

Explanations?

I'm particularly interested to hear from zeek since he convinced me Enrique made more sense. Why the change?

[Enrique]

And it's a terrible one

[Enrique]

I'm gonna say, Alex, and you know I love you, this is the second dumbest thing I've ever been accused of lying about in Mafia. Epig's "he obviously didn't have a bad day and was super happy an hour ago" still comes first.

[Tangrowth]

I'm gonna say, Alex, and you know I love you, this is the second dumbest thing I've ever been accused of lying about in Mafia. Epig's "he obviously didn't have a bad day and was super happy an hour ago" still comes first.

The feeling is mutual! And I don't know if you are lying or not, but your explanation didn't make sense to me anyway.

Your original post about it just came across like specifically vague, that's all.

It really doesn't matter because there's plenty of evidence being thrown around as to why you're bad, so it's not like I think it's even that noteworthy, I just found it interesting and a possible slip -- and I've been out of the thread for too long so I'm enjoying talking again.

[zeek]

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 950#p88928

bilboes two vote Golden Genie between them.

[keys56000000000]

I voted Enrique in reaction to Zeek's vote switch.

[Tangrowth]

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 950#p88928

bilboes two vote Golden Genie between them.

Not sure I totally understand why you reference Dom's post... but you're saying something about the difference in votes between them? Yeah, the fact that they were tied at 8-8 was bugging me but I was keeping an eye on it, still have some time until lynch close.