GAME OF CHAMPIONS 2021 Endgame (town and 3p win)

[Sloonei]

I've misread falcon a bunch lately, thinking scum when he's town. This time he doesn't feel like either, at least not his usual meta. But in a vacuum I find him a bit too appeasing. His read on me is too confident. Unless there are raisins I just don't know how long I can keep ignoring him and hoping something happens to help me settle on an opinion.

Oh FFS



I have a green check on you



Go ahead and soup me Maf

This outburst feels unnecessary, but I believe it.

[alexa]

Wow, so many people so good at reading me here, how can I ever compete. My reads can only be tmi of course, cause I'm not as good!

This level of sass suggests that multiple people on the Dizzy wagon were town. Bussing potential decreasing.

can you tell who was on the wagon at that point?

[Phil and Gloria]

I've misread falcon a bunch lately, thinking scum when he's town. This time he doesn't feel like either, at least not his usual meta. But in a vacuum I find him a bit too appeasing. His read on me is too confident. Unless there are raisins I just don't know how long I can keep ignoring him and hoping something happens to help me settle on an opinion.

Oh FFS



I have a green check on you



Go ahead and soup me Maf

i've seen this movie before

[Sloonei]

Phil town
Gloria town

[Phil and Gloria]

Wow, so many people so good at reading me here, how can I ever compete. My reads can only be tmi of course, cause I'm not as good!

This level of sass suggests that multiple people on the Dizzy wagon were town. Bussing potential decreasing.

can you tell who was on the wagon at that point?

all I remember for sure is me lol

[Sloonei]

Wow, so many people so good at reading me here, how can I ever compete. My reads can only be tmi of course, cause I'm not as good!

This level of sass suggests that multiple people on the Dizzy wagon were town. Bussing potential decreasing.

can you tell who was on the wagon at that point?

I was hoping someone who was there when it happened could tell me that.

[Master Radishes]

My instinct is to believe it. That's what I felt I was sensing from Falc earlier (iirc his opinion on me changed over night) and it makes sense he'd check me.

[Sloonei]

Re: Mac

(I'm probably not going to articulate this as well as I intend to.)

I cracked open some games in the last year I've played with him to double check my feelings (Witcher, Spiderverse, GoC). Mac is known for being abrasive, in yo face, etc as both alignments (where others poke he punches), but I've found there's a slightly different taste to it depending on his alignment. As town he will do his little shtick of quoting a post and being like 'this smells like poop' and then call them scum 20 times for the rest of the round. But he also evolves his reads. Like he gets a light ping by someone, and starts bopping their noses, but then if they get townier he stops and something else pings him and he finds a new punching bag. Along the way he still backreads and analyses and builds cases to confirm or challenge his own reads.

Conversely, scum!Mac mimics that. He remembers to be abrasive and punchy, but he gets caught in a fake worldview for longer and finds it harder to evolve his reads convincingly. He'll take a post that fake-pings him and stick to that read for a long time. He also often forgets to do any actual work to back up his takes. His posts tend to be much shorter and more to the point. If his thread position is secure as the game goes on this can change, and he can start manipulating events to his will, but early on and if people aren't convinced of him he just tries to double down and become more of a bulldozer. (This is exactly what he's doing to me now that I've sussed him.) (FYI he's also not adverse to throwing shade at a partner and even pushing others to vote them, so a one-off suss of Marmot earlier is not clearing in the slightest.)


I am in no way 100% convinced he's scum here (I never am with Mac) but his game so far fits my view of his scum game far more than his town game.

I agree with this account. There's no backbone to Mac's worldview when he's scum. He also never really lands anything. I'm going to reread Mac to see how I feel and also how he treated Marmot. I think his vote was on Marmot when he got shot, but don't remember how he got there.

This is mafia piggybacking on town to bury other town.

[Creature]

We're going to be soup endgamed, right?

[Master Radishes]

Sorry Falc I shouldn't have pushed it.

[alexa]

Wow, so many people so good at reading me here, how can I ever compete. My reads can only be tmi of course, cause I'm not as good!

This level of sass suggests that multiple people on the Dizzy wagon were town. Bussing potential decreasing.

can you tell who was on the wagon at that point?

I was hoping someone who was there when it happened could tell me that.

i didn't know if there was a way to check on the syndicate

belzy, nutella, i guess mac, IDK who else

i'm ngl the wagon really surprised me because i found him villagery (even that line you're quoting i would've village-read) so i'm not completely certain he wasn't bussed by at least 1 person with TMI, but i agree that the line sounds like salt toward people of opposite alignment lol

[Creature]

Sorry Falc I shouldn't have pushed it.

Guess at least that narrows down our options

[Phil and Gloria]

list arranged by tier with highest in a given tier being towniest of that group. notes provided on some but not all players.

Lock town, never look back:
112

Town read:
Belzy - my highest townread; albeit i have reservations even here i think this is a pretty solidly town slot: insights are original, seems to have conviction in stated reads and is approaching the game in a very problem-solvey way indicative of village alignment
Seanzie - i was wrong
ilario - similar to Belzy.,. also has many times throughout the game submitted several posts in succession, sometimes carrying a chain of thought--something wolves are less likely to do or otherwise tend to have trouble doing. substantive contributions.
c4 - here because people are talking about him like he's lock town and i don't have any reason to really scumread him

town lean:
nutella
alexa - people say she's a strong wolf, i think probably still town. i will, however, keep my eyes peeled
hallowkat - less sure than i was upon initial gut because i've seen some shade thrown his way and i seem to be influenced by it to a degree but still reasonably confident here
falcon - i'm not sure, but he's my strongest read from the CDC crew still in the game. has been trending up in play over the past year or two- not convinced this is his scum game, though
LinearPoint - if there's a read i'm going to get bit on it's this one, - roleplaying plays on my psychology, - but probs town

neutral
Paopan - don't like the slot enough to bump it up yet but not much negative to say here at present
Master R. - i liked the first things i read from him but have gotten some bad vibes here-and-there. he townleaned(read?) me but then retracted when i decided to add too much to a post and he didn't like it. i'll admit it was kind of a silly add-on from me at the time, but i'm not sure he'd be so antsy about it unless he was trying to gain towncred as a wolf? gun-to-my-head town at this point but i'm going to be sussing the slot out hard over the next while
Alison
dyachei
Creature - i liked him at first and do admit he was sharing thoughts early-game that i was having without me even expressing them. seems to be really conservative though and i'm not a huge fan
Phil and Gloria - trending up, trending down, lost in the abyss of 112's reads rn

maf lean:
sabie12 - not much to say here as her post quantity is rather low, which i don't want to criticize her for. but there's stuff i don't like in what is a small sample
EnderWiggin - i'm thinking he may have been caught and just doubled-down with the openwolfing in an attempt to get out of yeet candidacy?
Guillotine

mafia lean but also read:
Dizzy and Bo

null/haven't seen enough or anything of
urist
axe!
Wilgy, MD
Justplayingitcool
sig
Porscha
sloon
TonyStarkPrime

too many nulls but honestly i haven't been able to catch the posters listed there enough

where i'm at, hope it sparks someone's wandering genius

Why am I mafia? Why is Dizzy mafia? Why is falcon town?

[Phil and Gloria]

Anyway, I'm going to start to look at Marmot connections, cause I don't think anyone did that yet

Tbh several people have done that but it's not like I'd expect you to dig through game this size. The main thing that I've arrived at as a result of the Marmot flip is believing that there are 2 triumvirates that maybe contain a wolf in them. That being the people voting for Scotty (a confirmed town), and the people who were voting Paopan with the latter predicated on Paopan being town themselves. Given Paopan isn't flipped I am preferring to dig into the Scotty voters whomst are you, Creature and Master Radishes. Creature has been handling me in good faith and hasn't really pinged me while you and Radishes have not only had shit reads on me you've had shit reads on me, you've also both been lacking in general. Though to Radishes credit I can see the wheels turning whereas with you, right now, you're resorting to some weird defeated general butthurt ate thing that I don't vibe with at all.

LAMIST

[Sloonei]

Neeko doesn't know many here so Neeko doesn't know who would be good pick. Nutella sounds tasty though, so Neeko would have picked that. Yum.

You should out nutella's role so that she gets souped if town

lol what? The fuck does that even mean?

This is the alleged slip that Urist pointed out, the accusation being that LP feigned ignorance about the soup kill. I don't really think going off of slips like this yields the best results, cause I've seen a lot of town miss stuff or assume stuff and it being seen as a slip. I think actual slips are very rare. However, LP is later claiming that they did read the OP, but that Nanook must have edited it. I don't know if this happened, but it seems a bit unlikely? Why not just say that you missed the part about the soup kill instead of "No, it changed"? Maybe this has more to do with LP's personality than anything. I could see LP trying to feign ignorance here, but I don't think that is a slam dunk thing at all.

But reading through LP's iso, I just end up with very mixed feelings. I've only played one game day with them before, but they were obvious town to me in that game. This game, I don't get the same feeling. At the same time, there's actually a lot of content and analysis to read. A lot of the analysis doesn't really make sense to me, but that was the same as last game. What I think may be different is that last game they eventually became very town leader-y and sorted people pretty aggressively and had much more impact overall. I wish I had a more firm take here, but I don't. If others have more experience with LP, please share.

Marmot still worst iso in the game but ender is close

Does Marmot not usually forgo reading?
Neeko thought that's what Marmot did and that seems to be the pattern in Marmot iso.
Pretty much identical so far to Team Fortress Mafia where Marmot was Town.

There's also this, which is the only thing LP has posted about Marmot. This being the only thing in their iso when there's a lot of content isn't great in itself.

And ther's been a lot of discussion around LP, and if they're mafia there might be a lot of anti-alignments to draw from it. I could see them being mafia here, so I'm not opposed to chopping them.

Would also like to know where LP is at with reads/sorting right now.

[Creature]

112
c4e5g3d5
DrWilgy
hollowkatt
Justplayingitcool
LinearPoint
Paopan
Phil and Gloria
sabie12
sig
Sloonei
TonyStarkPrime

[Phil and Gloria]

Re: Mac

(I'm probably not going to articulate this as well as I intend to.)

I cracked open some games in the last year I've played with him to double check my feelings (Witcher, Spiderverse, GoC). Mac is known for being abrasive, in yo face, etc as both alignments (where others poke he punches), but I've found there's a slightly different taste to it depending on his alignment. As town he will do his little shtick of quoting a post and being like 'this smells like poop' and then call them scum 20 times for the rest of the round. But he also evolves his reads. Like he gets a light ping by someone, and starts bopping their noses, but then if they get townier he stops and something else pings him and he finds a new punching bag. Along the way he still backreads and analyses and builds cases to confirm or challenge his own reads.

Conversely, scum!Mac mimics that. He remembers to be abrasive and punchy, but he gets caught in a fake worldview for longer and finds it harder to evolve his reads convincingly. He'll take a post that fake-pings him and stick to that read for a long time. He also often forgets to do any actual work to back up his takes. His posts tend to be much shorter and more to the point. If his thread position is secure as the game goes on this can change, and he can start manipulating events to his will, but early on and if people aren't convinced of him he just tries to double down and become more of a bulldozer. (This is exactly what he's doing to me now that I've sussed him.) (FYI he's also not adverse to throwing shade at a partner and even pushing others to vote them, so a one-off suss of Marmot earlier is not clearing in the slightest.)


I am in no way 100% convinced he's scum here (I never am with Mac) but his game so far fits my view of his scum game far more than his town game.

I agree with this account. There's no backbone to Mac's worldview when he's scum. He also never really lands anything. I'm going to reread Mac to see how I feel and also how he treated Marmot. I think his vote was on Marmot when he got shot, but don't remember how he got there.

suck my ass

[Phil and Gloria]

You know how I know Dyslexicon is bullshit. Because he apparently is paying enough attention to be aware that Alison and 112 are scumreading me but apparently doesn't give a shit that Nutella does, and also apparently has no idea why I voted for Marmot.

LAMIST

[Master Radishes]

What about, like, sig/sabie/LP?/someone else? or something, and then like HK trying not to show his demotivation or something.

[Phil and Gloria]

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... start=2600

read this page and unhand me you jackanapes

[Creature]

112
c4e5g3d5
DrWilgy
hollowkatt
Justplayingitcool
LinearPoint
Paopan
Phil and Gloria
sabie12
sig
Sloonei
TonyStarkPrime

Perhaps not c4 and Mac, and taking out hollow temporarily

112
DrWilgy
Justplayingitcool
LinearPoint
Paopan
sabie12
sig
Sloonei
TonyStarkPrime

[Phil and Gloria]

My instinct is to believe it. That's what I felt I was sensing from Falc earlier (iirc his opinion on me changed over night) and it makes sense he'd check me.

why would mafia falcon ever do this?

[Phil and Gloria]

112
c4e5g3d5
DrWilgy
hollowkatt
Justplayingitcool
LinearPoint
Paopan
Phil and Gloria
sabie12
sig
Sloonei
TonyStarkPrime

excuse me

[Sloonei]

Me and Guillo being top wagons is not quite ideal imo

Wonder if this is an honest asssessment.

[Phil and Gloria]

You know how I know Dyslexicon is bullshit. Because he apparently is paying enough attention to be aware that Alison and 112 are scumreading me but apparently doesn't give a shit that Nutella does, and also apparently has no idea why I voted for Marmot.

No. I knew Nutella were, and I didn't know 112 was. And yeah, I don't really remember your Marmot vote. Don't speak for me. And why the fuck would me remembering details be important at all. I remember some and not others. It's how my brain works.

dOnT sPeAk FoR mE

[Master Radishes]

I've nursed a constant 'but what if it's JPIC?' question in my mind but I just can't make it stick.

[Creature]

Is it weird my only memoir of JPIC is them going defensive when suspected?

[Master Radishes]

Mac you don't need to ctrl-F Dizzy's iso; I've already concluded it reflects well on you.

[Creature]

I wish atp there was a catch like Marmot and Dyslexicon

[Creature]

Btw, wasn't there someone good at reading DrWilgy?

[alexa]

what if i'm wrong on HK

[Justplayingitcool]

Is it weird my only memoir of JPIC is them going defensive when suspected?

And not the times i have defended you this phase?

[Justplayingitcool]

I've nursed a constant 'but what if it's JPIC?' question in my mind but I just can't make it stick.

lol

[Sloonei]

I got nothing out of reading Sabie's iso. I think I'm just done for a while and will break. I have visitors soon as well, but I'll be back before EoD.

What a shame. That could have proved highly illuminating.

[Master Radishes]

I think this game has been easier than we thought it was. Like in D1 we shot at a bunch of ? slots and hit mainly town and it felt worrying to see so much green so soon. But actually today has felt, at least at times, quite good in the thread, at least when certain people have been in it trying to puzzle things out.

I'm going to go to sleep an optimist that this game isn't hard and we just need to keep going as we are. I'll hopefully be able to do my own bit to help soon too.

[alexa]

i am clearing HK for meta reasons NGL. he feels very different than the game he was a wolf. but i did the same thing to lag last game and was very wrong so i'm getting paranoid, especially because the way he claimed earlier felt like something i'd do as wolf to divert pressure. does anyone have good meta/a good read on HK?

[Sloonei]

nut, I know I'm gonna sound like a broken record saying this, but that's because it keeps happening.

You need to find a way to read me that isn't "c4 is town because his posts are towny, until he says something I disagree with, at which point he's a TMIing wolf". It would be understandable if that had literally ever worked on v!me, but it hasn't. Dumb tinfoils like this would be more understandable if they were on someone who's actually a good wolf, but I don't know what could possibly make you think I am. My best wolf game ever is the one where I spent entire cycles shitposting and 20-posted in F3.

If it is in fact the redcheck thing you're hanging onto, I don't even need to say how dumb calling that TMIey is.

This is probably the most I'll talk about this one thing today for everyone's sanity.

I think I like this post, the part about saying they're not a good wolf. It's rare for scum to do boasting lies ime.

Didn't get much out of c4's iso tbh. Except I didn't really hate his case on Porscha and apparently I skipped it before even though he posted it multiple times lol

On balance town enough for me.

This is a very tongue-tied way of announcing a town read on c4.

[Creature]

Is it weird my only memoir of JPIC is them going defensive when suspected?

And not the times i have defended you this phase?

Can't defend someone who is not at war with anybody

[Master Radishes]

alright good night, go along with my optimism if you have a big dick

[Justplayingitcool]

Is it weird my only memoir of JPIC is them going defensive when suspected?

And not the times i have defended you this phase?

Can't defend someone who is not at war with anybody

You have been shaded a few times this phase

[alexa]

nut, I know I'm gonna sound like a broken record saying this, but that's because it keeps happening.

You need to find a way to read me that isn't "c4 is town because his posts are towny, until he says something I disagree with, at which point he's a TMIing wolf". It would be understandable if that had literally ever worked on v!me, but it hasn't. Dumb tinfoils like this would be more understandable if they were on someone who's actually a good wolf, but I don't know what could possibly make you think I am. My best wolf game ever is the one where I spent entire cycles shitposting and 20-posted in F3.

If it is in fact the redcheck thing you're hanging onto, I don't even need to say how dumb calling that TMIey is.

This is probably the most I'll talk about this one thing today for everyone's sanity.

I think I like this post, the part about saying they're not a good wolf. It's rare for scum to do boasting lies ime.

Didn't get much out of c4's iso tbh. Except I didn't really hate his case on Porscha and apparently I skipped it before even though he posted it multiple times lol

On balance town enough for me.

This is a very tongue-tied way of announcing a town read on c4.

noticed this before too/felt like if i was going to get there on c4 being a wolf, it would specifically be for the spew being kind of eh. but i'm still reading his actual posting as villagery.

[Sloonei]

Don't kill Porscha, I will explain later.

Tell me who to kill and don't tell me me.

I wanna say c4 but c4 got zero votes, so Axe I guess to save Porscha

If Porscha is indeed town, you might even be right. Don't think that will happen now though, and it's not a vote I'd feel confident in.

Belzy is definitely town. Porscha is probably town. I am inclined to say this is not a good look for c4.

[Phil and Gloria]

112
alexa
belzy
c4
dya
falcon
ilario
radishes
porscha
sloonei
me

towns

checking who outside this list is voting for people inside it

112 has creature, tsp, guillo, wilgy voting for them
c4 has paopan, linearpoint and wilgy (2)
falcon has guillo (2), linearpoint (2)
radishes has hollowkatt
i have guillo (3), linearpoint (3) and wilgy (3)
sloonei has hollowkatt (2)

players outside of my townreads that are not voting anyone inside of my townreads = tonystarkprime, justplayingitcool and sabie12 (not voting at all) and sig (not voting at all)

upper poe

tsp
jpic

lower poe

sabie
sig
hollokwatt
linearpoint
wilgy
guillo

[Justplayingitcool]

Maybe c4 is the only one who can read me properly

[Phil and Gloria]

Mac you don't need to ctrl-F Dizzy's iso; I've already concluded it reflects well on you.

but it's one of my favourite things in mafia

[alexa]

I think this game has been easier than we thought it was. Like in D1 we shot at a bunch of ? slots and hit mainly town and it felt worrying to see so much green so soon. But actually today has felt, at least at times, quite good in the thread, at least when certain people have been in it trying to puzzle things out.

I'm going to go to sleep an optimist that this game isn't hard and we just need to keep going as we are. I'll hopefully be able to do my own bit to help soon too.

it's never felt like an explicitly hard game to me, it's just felt like people did bullshit last EOD with that CFD for no reason. but like, idk i guess knowing for sure the number of wolves makes me less paranoid that i usually am in mashes. plus we have 4 KP

gnnn

[Phil and Gloria]

I wish atp there was a catch like Marmot and Dyslexicon

what u mean? you wish someone randomly vigged a wolf?

[Creature]

I think this game has been easier than we thought it was. Like in D1 we shot at a bunch of ? slots and hit mainly town and it felt worrying to see so much green so soon. But actually today has felt, at least at times, quite good in the thread, at least when certain people have been in it trying to puzzle things out.

I'm going to go to sleep an optimist that this game isn't hard and we just need to keep going as we are. I'll hopefully be able to do my own bit to help soon too.

Hopefully you're right. Might just be a roster of 112, DrWilgy, sabie12 and sig. I remember their thoughts didn't seem organic.

[Sloonei]

Think Sabie comes out of Dizzy's ISO looking quite bad. She is named as a suspect from beginning to end, but he never once gives any substantive thought to anything she's done in this game. High distancing compatibility.

[alexa]

I think this game has been easier than we thought it was. Like in D1 we shot at a bunch of ? slots and hit mainly town and it felt worrying to see so much green so soon. But actually today has felt, at least at times, quite good in the thread, at least when certain people have been in it trying to puzzle things out.

I'm going to go to sleep an optimist that this game isn't hard and we just need to keep going as we are. I'll hopefully be able to do my own bit to help soon too.

Hopefully you're right. Might just be a roster of 112, DrWilgy, sabie12 and sig. I remember their thoughts didn't seem organic.

still not sold on tsp!v