GAME OF CHAMPIONS 2021 Endgame (town and 3p win)

[alexa]

Okay I can definitely see why illario finds Creature's early ISO bad

some of it is "this is just classic creature/personality" but it also feels exaggerated

[DrWilgy]

What's up with TSP being in the lead? Mechanics?

[alexa]

What's up with TSP being in the lead? Mechanics?

Falcon claimed a red check





tempted to call this a derp

[Creature]

Are dyachei and ilario really mech cleared?

[alexa]

Do we just lynch Marmot?

sell me

idk

Thought they seemed wolfy and Mac is voting them

what do you find wolfy about them

Very unimpressive for Marmot standards

Vague reasoning like this is usually >rand w

Agree with this with the caveat that sense it was about Marmot (who was a wolf) it's not as bad

[alexa]

Are dyachei and ilario really mech cleared?

they both shot wolves in places it would've have made sense to do so as a wolf

[alexa]

Are dyachei and ilario really mech cleared?

they both shot wolves in places it would've have made sense to do so as a wolf

wouldn't* have

[Sloonei]

It has been a couple years since I played with Creature, but my memory of him back then was that he hated playing as mafia and would be borderline inactive when it happened. If he's mafia here, then he's playing drastically different and my read is clearly outdated.

Mac calling me town today feels very unlike mafiamac. The POE is not very large, and he has a history of pushing me fairly often. I would expect him to want me to be a suspect today. But on the flip side of that, I would expect town Mac to be more wary of me today as well. So perhaps it's a misdirection and he really is a naughty boy.

[alexa]

I played with w!Creature once last May and they were pretty active/a top poster (they have only a little over half their posts here but it was a different kind of game with 3 hour days)

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... -Game-Days

I am looking at it now

[Creature]

It has been a couple years since I played with Creature, but my memory of him back then was that he hated playing as mafia and would be borderline inactive when it happened. If he's mafia here, then he's playing drastically different and my read is clearly outdated.

Mac calling me town today feels very unlike mafiamac. The POE is not very large, and he has a history of pushing me fairly often. I would expect him to want me to be a suspect today. But on the flip side of that, I would expect town Mac to be more wary of me today as well. So perhaps it's a misdirection and he really is a naughty boy.

I peaked as wolf late 2020/early 2021 then had mostly meh wolfgames afterwards.

[Master Radishes]

@Seanzie nice call

Who’s neeko

I think TSP is wolfing.

You aren’t neeko

Wolf!you asks silly questions like this to make it seem like you're less invested in the game than you actually are.

[Creature]

I played with w!Creature once last May and they were pretty active/a top poster (they have only a little over half their posts here but it was a different kind of game with 3 hour days)

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... -Game-Days

I am looking at it now

That game was tense. I felt a compulsory need to just keep posting.

[Creature]

Not really gonna have time to play much today before EoD.

Shoot TSP. Maybe Dizzy.

Guillo is a fine wagon. Not like a strong case, but a few pingy things, plus I thought Dizzy's read on Guillo felt teammatey, and so if I'm right on Dizzy, Guillo gets worse.

Mac could still be scum, don't like how quickly he AtE'd on me. He got me to back off him somewhat last game by AtEing, and I guess I wouldn't put it past him to do it as town to get me off him either, but I think he would be more willing to engage and try to get me to find him, and less just trying to get me to back off him. Plus some other stuff but meh things can't always be said. So... wagon? shot? Sure.

Welp fuck

[Creature]

112 (wolf)
- I don't see any valuable information he gave aside from the BoKnow vote

alexa (town)
+1 - Incredible solvy (NAI, but its solvy so I'll give it a pass)
- Just gonna drop here that I view alexa and Alison as twins

Alison (town)
+1 - Incredible solvy
- for being voted by Marmot (might be a bus, might be a scum who got into Alison's crosshairs)

Belzy (town)
- Could've been a +1 or -1. But she's "too towny". It kinda sets my alarm off. Just noting

BoKnows (wolf)
-1 - No impact on the game. Policy D1 lynch?

c4e5g3d5 (town)
+1 - Incredible solvy

Creature (wolf)
-1 I don't like how he always rides along with someone else’s opinion
-1 Changing his vote without posting/telling publicly

DrWilgy (policy)
- No opinion. Just that he plays his typical scum play

dyachei (wolf)
- For shooting a wolf
- I don't feel good since C4 is already planning to shoot Marmot.
- Probably shot Marmot first to earn some town cred

Dyslexicon (wolf)
-1 "towny" intro feels off. I think this is a wolf

EnderWiggin (policy)
-1 No intention of playing the game. I'm deeply saddened

falcon45ca (wolf)
-1 Personally don't like the slot

Guillotine (town)
- Typical Guillo. Just likes to press people. Not familiar with scumplay soo there's that.

hollowkatt (town)
- Not sure about this slot. Is this her typical townplay?

ilario (town)
+1 okay okay pretty cool (might be a deep wolf. but that's a problem for another day)

Justplayingitcool (town)
+1 Cool entrance also, me likey

LinearPoint (wolf)
+1 Neeko is solvy, I like also
-1 I see no AtE which I am used to town!LP

Master Radishes (3P)
- Abilities feels like RNG, would benefit town; statistically speaking.
+1 for having 0 counterclaim on the 3P slot

NotAnAxehole (town)
- Would personally like to proceed with NAA regardless of alignment

nutella (wolf)
+1 or -1 - Creature and Nutella feels W/W

Phil and Gloria (town)
+1 for having the same tone when he's town, post lower than usual today (might be NAI but for me its good)

Porscha (wolf)
-1 Late entry and I do not like the entry :/

sabie12 (wolf)
-1 Don't like

Seanzie (town)
+1 Same gameplay as his townplay (might be a replicated play from his scum pool but meh)

sig (policy)
- Meh

Sloonei (policy)
-1 changes his train a lot, I don't like; non-helpful

TonyStarkPrime (wolf)
-1 for having non-towny post

Urist (town)
+1 for "outing" LP and starting the engine of day 1
-1 for deathtunelling LP (would be better to check who also TRs Neeko that would help us solve further)

Take:
You guys rely on meta-read too much.
If some players levelled up their gameplay. It's going to bite us in the end
Have so many wolf read atm
Marmot flip confirms my theory that Mafia Capt picked players instead of roles (mixed it with GOAT and non-GOAT players)

I think most people are already here, but I am fairly confident this is town!Paopan. I can't explain this immediately for raisins, but likely can D2 if need be.

[alexa]

yeah like I was saying, wolves definitely would've considered Seanzie a great D1 ML.

[Creature]

Looking at Seanzie's ISO now, he was right on all known wolves so far.

[Creature]

yeah like I was saying, wolves definitely would've considered Seanzie a great D1 ML.

Does that make one of Paopan/DrWilgy wolf? Or was TSP the only wolf voting Seanzie?

[Master Radishes]

I've cracked open TSP's iso.

In the first two pages I notice a fair few posts about/around LP and Creature. I'm not ready to decide what to make of them, but if anyone fancies themselves a spew reader and can parse TSP's all-over-the-place style then have a looksie.

[alexa]

A fair amount of his other reds are either mech locked or flipped villas, though

[Creature]

There have been a game that was that embarrassing, but to use past games against me they Dizzy does, he has to stop doing that. I took a long break from Mafia just to evaluate on the past.

I am not against you. I'm town reading you. You are against me.

shots here would be pretty dope

I agree with Mac. Help Mac bus dizzy by shooting Dizzy because Mac asked for it.

[alexa]

yeah like I was saying, wolves definitely would've considered Seanzie a great D1 ML.

Does that make one of Paopan/DrWilgy wolf? Or was TSP the only wolf voting Seanzie?

Not sure atp, GTH Paopan/DrWilgy has exactly 1

[DrWilgy]

What's up with TSP being in the lead? Mechanics?

Falcon claimed a red check





tempted to call this a derp

That'd be a pretty silly derp IMO.

[VOTE: TSP] aubergine

Kinda ot, kinda explain, why my presence is so hit/miss rn, post Covid fatigue is a motherfucker. Only saying this because I haven't been able to read as much as I want, and I figured Creature with his post on my online presence may be concerned because of it. Feel icky about my misread on 112.

[Creature]

Okay not sure how Seanzie helps finding other wolves. Only noticeable stuff I found from his ISO was Paopan town and the suspicion on LinearPoint.

[DrWilgy]

I think Pao still needs to be yeeted.

I was right about Sig being town at least. I'll take that. I'm not sure if that opens my suspicion back up on Sabie or not.

[DrWilgy]

Mainly thing keeping me from Sabie, is a lingering that Pao and Sabie are not W/W

[alexa]

I've cracked open TSP's iso.

In the first two pages I notice a fair few posts about/around LP and Creature. I'm not ready to decide what to make of them, but if anyone fancies themselves a spew reader and can parse TSP's all-over-the-place style then have a looksie.

i don't see how LP could be a wolf unless they're lying about the vest and it was from someone else, or unless idk, sabie is a wolf/C4 was factional and i was hit by a 3P. giving me a vest for cred only to pop it the next night would be pretty damn silly

[Master Radishes]

I've cracked open TSP's iso.

In the first two pages I notice a fair few posts about/around LP and Creature. I'm not ready to decide what to make of them, but if anyone fancies themselves a spew reader and can parse TSP's all-over-the-place style then have a looksie.

i don't see how LP could be a wolf unless they're lying about the vest and it was from someone else, or unless idk, sabie is a wolf/C4 was factional and i was hit by a 3P. giving me a vest for cred only to pop it the next night would be pretty damn silly

Yeah I more or less agree, and when I iso'd LP during the Night I came away surprised at how towny I found them. There were definitely bits I didn't like (like EoD1) but overall felt I leaned town on them.

But that said, it's the weakest of the mech things imo. Like it's good but it's not *clearing*.

Just not eliminating an LP possibility yet.

[Master Radishes]

Okay pausing my TSP spew read to do things like spend time with my wife and watch a movie and then sleep for hours.

[Creature]

Hope this game ends soon

It's consuming so much of my time

[Creature]

Congrats Phil and Gloria. You emotionally manipulated me into believing you might just be misguided town. Nice reaction to the TSP guilty btw.

Congrats Sloonei. You really faked a good effort into sorting the game by giving a list of names and ordering us to find wolf among each other. Nice job persuading me into mislynching Guillotine while displaying confidenve.

Congrats whoever is wolf among dyachei/ilario. You really timed well your shot to get cred from a wolf buddy that was already going down. Especially well for ilario if he faked all that case on me.

Congrats DrWilgy. You fooled me into saving you two days in a row.

Congrats TonyStarkPrime. You should've always gone down after Seanzie called you wolf yet you survived the four lynches thing.

[Belzy]

Congrats Phil and Gloria. You emotionally manipulated me into believing you might just be misguided town. Nice reaction to the TSP guilty btw.

Congrats Sloonei. You really faked a good effort into sorting the game by giving a list of names and ordering us to find wolf among each other. Nice job persuading me into mislynching Guillotine while displaying confidenve.

Congrats whoever is wolf among dyachei/ilario. You really timed well your shot to get cred from a wolf buddy that was already going down. Especially well for ilario if he faked all that case on me.

Congrats DrWilgy. You fooled me into saving you two days in a row.

Congrats TonyStarkPrime. You should've always gone down after Seanzie called you wolf yet you survived the four lynches thing.

Game's over? Cuz you're pretty much listing what I can see as the scum team.

[Belzy]

But yeah, definitely lynch Mac Sloonei and Wilgy after Tsp

[DrWilgy]

Why me?

[sabie12]

What's up with TSP being in the lead? Mechanics?

Falcon claimed a red check





tempted to call this a derp

That'd be a pretty silly derp IMO.

[VOTE: TSP] aubergine

Kinda ot, kinda explain, why my presence is so hit/miss rn, post Covid fatigue is a motherfucker. Only saying this because I haven't been able to read as much as I want, and I figured Creature with his post on my online presence may be concerned because of it. Feel icky about my misread on 112.

Oh I'm sorry to hear I hope you feel better soon!

[sabie12]

Tsp iso is hard to glean much from. I'm out and about today playing D and D and find coming in from out of town but I'll try to check back in later on.

[sabie12]

Friend coming in*

[Master Radishes]

As I read TSP's iso I get further confbiased into a w!Mac world. There's not meat to anything they say to each other. They talk to and about each other but they don't talk *to* or *about* each other.

A non-exhaustive selection of what I mean:

Spoiler: show

so it seems like everyone would draft me...

except I didn't get drafted

which means sloonei is the wolf captain

It means wolves chose roles

Sheeping mac on Nutella til a creature red flip

@TonyStarkPrime if you're still voting nutella when I wake up I am probably gonna just browbeat the entire game into cfding you.

Fine smh

@Phil and Gloria Falcon continues to bleed town move vote pls

@Phil and Gloria Falcon continues to bleed town move vote pls

why would I move my vote at the behest of the wolfiest slot in the game?

Being wolfy is towny and I can read falcon

Adding Mac to town core to replace Nutella

(This is a pocket attempt)

anyways I need sleep don’t let me die mac you’re in charge

Mac saved jpic Mac saved jpic someone get him

We'll probably have Phil abd Gloria as wolf here, right?

the “Mac hasn’t killed a wolf in 24 hours” timer is buzzing

[Master Radishes]

It's really annoying ctrl-Fing both 'Mac' and 'Phil' btw.

[LinearPoint]

Want some solution? I'll give you flips that could helpmo

[VOTE: LinearPoint] aubergine

Call it WIFOM but the kill makes sense from LP's perspective

Dya, Alexa, and Belzy are "universally" town read since day 1 yet they are still alive when 50% of the players are already down.

Okay ^^ I'll push LP today, lock vote if no one would flip during this day.

Honestly I don't trust anyone here at this point. Might as well get it over with.

All my primary pushes are still alive (ex. 112, Wigly, alexa, TSP)
So... For this day (3)
I'll leave it to you all for now to do some solving and I'll enjoy my weekend someplace else.
I'll come back probably before EoD or if the mods notifies a day kill or other mindblowing events.

Why does Sabie's vigilante shot make sense that Neeko told her to shoot c4?
Like unless you want to claim that Sabie is Mafia claiming the Mafia NK, but c4 doesn't seem like someone the Mafia would shoot since he was in a few people's PoE.
This just doesn't make sense.

[Master Radishes]

Should be noted that in comparison there are quite a few slots TSP barely mentions and largely ignores, and others he talks about/around a lot. There's not much he really pushes though. He waves at Dizzy a bit but is mainly adding his voice to collective suspicion rather than pushing it forward (or defending it).

[Master Radishes]

As expected I don't have many hard conclusions from TSP spew. His tone/style make it just as likely he'd do X as Y when scum, and he comments more than engages/pushes, so I find it challenging to commit to a sense of how he's treating other slots.

I might go back in later for another look.

[Master Radishes]

He also clearly tried to pocket falcon and sig at different points. He *might* have treated JPIC and Sabie similarly imo, but less prolonged as the aforementioned two. Not sure if that means they're also town he's aiming to pocket or scum mates he's lumping in.

[Master Radishes]

I'm going to sleep for real now.

[TonyStarkPrime]

This is the way the world ends

[Justplayingitcool]

Could JPIC moan about being cqlled a wolf as wolf?

I only complain when im towny as fuck

[alexa]

Creature's Shakespeare wolf game is a lot of "I don't trust anyone, thread feels wolfy," complaining, some of which is vaguely similar to moments this game

A key difference imo is like.. the confidence behind their reads though, at least from what I'm seeing by day 2. Once they form reads, they don't doubt themselves consistently which I've always found is something they tend to do more as a villager. Feels like I'm seeing a lot less personality behind their posting than I have this game - and more empty questioning

Keep in mind, 3 hour game day though

[alexa]

Fuck this

[VOTE: Seanzie] aubergine

Let's lynch people who have been actually wolfy for fuck's sake

Seanzie is someone I can see wolves picking

I won't oppose the policy on NAA tbh

It just sucks we'd be 1/6 D1

c4 is not TMIing

I was pretty aware NAA would fake red checks here

Like the sudden snap vote onto seanzie who was obvtown after alexa shot alison is just bad

In the second quote he wants people who have actually been Wolfy, but if you look for seanzie in his iso prior to that there’s almost no mention of him. And he says to kill wolfy people but in the subsequent posts at the same time won’t oppose to a policy on NAA despite thinking naa is town? Like fr??

And he wants seanzie just because he’s someone wolves can pick despite in the earlier posts creature thinks it’s more likely that mafia chose roles over players. That’s his only justification for pushing seanzie, “he’s someone wolves can pick”. Like no, that’s not style talking or personality it’s just a wolf

This is a good point though

@Creature, why did you vote Seanzie?

[alexa]

If Creature is mafia, he has undergone a transformation since I last played with him. Granted, there has been a long enough gap for that to be possible.

Yeah he played out of his mind this game regardless

But on close inspection a lot of his post count is over inflated

He tends to say alota the same things over and continually asks very similar questions with little follow up

I can see this, agree he's felt more exaggerated than usual. Not as convinced as you are though based on meta

[alexa]

Radishes, JPIC, TSP participating of this bullshit all look wolfy

TSP looks wolfy now

112
Creature
DrWilgy
hollowkatt
LinearPoint
sabie12
sig
TonyStarkPrime

Boom. If there's not wolf in here I quit mafia forever. Probably.

Creature and hk being in this list feels silly. I'm also increasingly thinking TSP's town.

TSP was one of the players constantly sheeping me yesterday on bad CFDs

We could just put the people on the Sean wagon and cut that playerbase in half.
Seemed pretty Mafia driven with likely 2-3 on it.

But then we hit like 60% town easy. Bad take.

Wrong.
Sean wagon: Urist, NotAnAxehole, Paopan, Belzy, TonyStarkPrime, DrWilgy, nutella
Urist and NAA already dead.
Paopan, Belzy, TonyStarkPrime, DrWilgy, nutella. At least 2 of these are Mafia. Probably 3.

Two of them just died so that leaves Paopan, Belzy, TSP, Wilgy and nutella

Bit worried about TSP having 369 posts but being low impact

I think TSP has wolf equity and most of their posts felt like pocket attempts

hollowkatt (16): Creature, sig, LinearPoint, Belzy, 112, TonyStarkPrime, DrWilgy, Sloonei, dyachei, c4e5g3d5, falcon45ca, alexa, sabie12, Guillotine, Master Radishes, Phil and Gloria
sig (11): Sloonei, Belzy, 112, Porscha, falcon45ca, alexa, sabie12, LinearPoint, Master Radishes, Phil and Gloria, Justplayingitcool
112 (10): Sloonei, Porscha, hollowkatt, sig, TonyStarkPrime, alexa, dyachei, DrWilgy, Paopan, Guillotine
Guillotine (9): 112, Creature, Sloonei, Master Radishes, dyachei, Justplayingitcool, LinearPoint, ilario, DrWilgy
DrWilgy (8): TonyStarkPrime, c4e5g3d5, dyachei, hollowkatt, 112, sabie12, Paopan, LinearPoint
TonyStarkPrime (8): Paopan, Porscha, Belzy, Guillotine, Justplayingitcool, falcon45ca, hollowkatt, Master Radishes
sabie12 (5): alexa, sig, falcon45ca, hollowkatt, Phil and Gloria
c4e5g3d5 (4): Phil and Gloria, sig, TonyStarkPrime, Belzy

This is probably the final nail in the coffin and sure I could read the rest of his iso but there’s no convincing me anymore he’s not a wolf

He spends a great deal talking about tsp being a wolf compared to guillo who he doesn’t mention or interact with once in his entire iso until just barely before eod d2. Nevertheless creature has built up a narrative that tsp is a wolf since d1 and yet his vote ends up on guillo not tsp. 1 vote was the difference between his sr for days (tsp) surviving over guillo

Yeah, the Guillo vote didn't make a ton of sense to me and i could definitely see w!Creature using Sloonei/dya's bad pushes as an excuse to move his vote there. I don't think Creature is a wolf with dya though, because at EOD Creature asked dya if he should vote there/said he was moving if dya said so and i don't think he'd be bold enough to do that as W/W, i'm pretty sure it'd be much more likely w!him using some villagers bad pushes to justify his own in that scenario

[sabie12]

This thread needs some lightening up. Please enjoy the best ever show opening credits.