GAME OF CHAMPIONS 2021 Endgame (town and 3p win)

[Belzy]

sabie I'd rather keep her alive in hopes she actually uses her vig shot tonight on PoE and doesn't just holster.

What if sabie is mafia? Then we should kill her before anyone else. Why you don't consider that at all?

idk I still think she is town vig and lynching town vig would be really bad for us

Based on what do you townread her? You are very quick and easy to just townread her, and play the vig card that we have to protect her, but we really need to be wary of her if she is scum. That does not seem to concern you at all.

[Belzy]

I don't think sabie holstering makes them look bad because there was discussion in the thread wrt holstering in the last day phase

They said they were gonna shoot overnight though.

hmm

it does feel like their w/w stock rose if that is the case

yeah, this is why i've been weirded out. we had a 24 hour chat and they never mentioned anything about holstering

Sabie and Creature being wolves together keeps growing on me

[Justplayingitcool]

OK sloonei decided to town it up that last page

[Belzy]

If Paopon is scum with sabie and creature then they are bussing rn in the vc

[Creature]

tbh I think I added sabie12 as a name wolves could soup kill tonight. Maybe if they're wolf that'd be one less name in the soup kill (although one more from vig kill). Perhaps it's not all lost if soup goes through tonight because if sabie is alive by then we can lynch her. If wolves decide to intentionally leave a town vig alive tonight, then I guess it will all rely on whether sabie12 correctly vigged a wolf or not.

[Sloonei]

Sabie certainly feels like the most unresolved slot in the game, if that makes sense. I feel like I can make convincing arguments either way for her.

[sabie12]

People can discuss what they think I did or did not say in a btsc. I feel like that is a slippery slope. Alexa and belzy talked about it together and tried to make a decision on my behalf. It's very hard to defend myself against something that others cannot see. I have explained my thought process and where my apprehension came from and I expressed that in the chat. it was also discussed that if I didn't shoot paopan he would be chopped anyway. I think I'm valid in being cautious here. I expressed that I had one shot left what if I chose wrong and mess things up further? So basically me choosing not to use up my last shot means I'm mafia. I'm not upset or anything just putting my perspective out there.

[Belzy]

[VOTE: sabie12] aubergine

[Sloonei]

If sabie is a wolf, it also heavily implies paopan is one as well. Maybe the sabie/paopan/creature world does make sense after all.

[Creature]

sabie I'd rather keep her alive in hopes she actually uses her vig shot tonight on PoE and doesn't just holster.

What if sabie is mafia? Then we should kill her before anyone else. Why you don't consider that at all?

idk I still think she is town vig and lynching town vig would be really bad for us

Based on what do you townread her? You are very quick and easy to just townread her, and play the vig card that we have to protect her, but we really need to be wary of her if she is scum. That does not seem to concern you at all.

Yes, I am mostly defending her because of the vig claim and because it makes less sense for me to wolf!sabie to claim vigilante as wolf vigilante and shoot suspected players like Ender and c3e5g3d5. Mostly the holster last night bothers me, but then what happened with one of the kills?

[Belzy]

If sabie is a wolf, it also heavily implies paopan is one as well. Maybe the sabie/paopan/creature world does make sense after all.

It kinda does / is where I am at rn

[falcon45ca]

If Paopon is scum with sabie and creature then they are bussing rn in the vc

I don't think it's all 3.

[Creature]

OK sloonei decided to town it up that last page

I'm mostly relying on their self-confirmable claim.

[Belzy]

People really have to trust me Alaxa is town, we together wanted Mac dead, and Sabie was forced to join us

[Creature]

If sabie12 is wolf vigilante, I dunno what she has been doing this game. Like, she shot two suspected players and decided to claim she holstered last night instead of claiming to have been roleblocked?

[Belzy]

If Paopon is scum with sabie and creature then they are bussing rn in the vc

I don't think it's all 3.

Who coulda woulda shoulda ya replace with whom?

[Sloonei]

People can discuss what they think I did or did not say in a btsc. I feel like that is a slippery slope. Alexa and belzy talked about it together and tried to make a decision on my behalf. It's very hard to defend myself against something that others cannot see. I have explained my thought process and where my apprehension came from and I expressed that in the chat. it was also discussed that if I didn't shoot paopan he would be chopped anyway. I think I'm valid in being cautious here. I expressed that I had one shot left what if I chose wrong and mess things up further? So basically me choosing not to use up my last shot means I'm mafia. I'm not upset or anything just putting my perspective out there.

But see, I think I believe Sabie when she says this. This tone is real. Sabie is adamant about her decision and offers no justifications beyond the immediate sense of caution she felt about pulling the trigger. She is correct that we've had a lot of vigilante misfires in this game. I can fully understand her reservations about pulling the trigger, and she makes it seem as though she was less willing to shoot paopan than either of her chat partners from last night.

[alexa]

People really have to trust me Alaxa is town, we together wanted Mac dead, and Sabie was forced to join us

IDG why a non-malicious illario poisons me there. he was talking about sussing Mac/Creature yesterday, not me. if he's not malicious it's extremely WTF.

[alexa]

People can discuss what they think I did or did not say in a btsc. I feel like that is a slippery slope. Alexa and belzy talked about it together and tried to make a decision on my behalf. It's very hard to defend myself against something that others cannot see. I have explained my thought process and where my apprehension came from and I expressed that in the chat. it was also discussed that if I didn't shoot paopan he would be chopped anyway. I think I'm valid in being cautious here. I expressed that I had one shot left what if I chose wrong and mess things up further? So basically me choosing not to use up my last shot means I'm mafia. I'm not upset or anything just putting my perspective out there.

But see, I think I believe Sabie when she says this. This tone is real. Sabie is adamant about her decision and offers no justifications beyond the immediate sense of caution she felt about pulling the trigger. She is correct that we've had a lot of vigilante misfires in this game. I can fully understand her reservations about pulling the trigger, and she makes it seem as though she was less willing to shoot paopan than either of her chat partners from last night.

Ok, but she expressed 0 of this hesitation in chat.

[Sloonei]

Creature remains the player I am most confident on.

[Belzy]

People can discuss what they think I did or did not say in a btsc. I feel like that is a slippery slope. Alexa and belzy talked about it together and tried to make a decision on my behalf. It's very hard to defend myself against something that others cannot see. I have explained my thought process and where my apprehension came from and I expressed that in the chat. it was also discussed that if I didn't shoot paopan he would be chopped anyway. I think I'm valid in being cautious here. I expressed that I had one shot left what if I chose wrong and mess things up further? So basically me choosing not to use up my last shot means I'm mafia. I'm not upset or anything just putting my perspective out there.

Why didn't you tell me and Alexa you were going to holster? You agreed with us you shoot if we kill Mac.

[Creature]

I guess I'm more afraid of us lynching the possible town vigilante rather than leaving the possible wolf vigilante alive tonight. I feel like I'm in line of being mislynched and I want town to have some extra firepower to try to get it right at least.

[alexa]

She did say she only had a shot left and was nervous about being RBed, but she said she was shooting Paopan.

[Belzy]

People can discuss what they think I did or did not say in a btsc. I feel like that is a slippery slope. Alexa and belzy talked about it together and tried to make a decision on my behalf. It's very hard to defend myself against something that others cannot see. I have explained my thought process and where my apprehension came from and I expressed that in the chat. it was also discussed that if I didn't shoot paopan he would be chopped anyway. I think I'm valid in being cautious here. I expressed that I had one shot left what if I chose wrong and mess things up further? So basically me choosing not to use up my last shot means I'm mafia. I'm not upset or anything just putting my perspective out there.

Why didn't you tell me and Alexa you were going to holster? You agreed with us you shoot if we kill Mac.

Late evening too (eod @ midnight for me)

[Sloonei]

People can discuss what they think I did or did not say in a btsc. I feel like that is a slippery slope. Alexa and belzy talked about it together and tried to make a decision on my behalf. It's very hard to defend myself against something that others cannot see. I have explained my thought process and where my apprehension came from and I expressed that in the chat. it was also discussed that if I didn't shoot paopan he would be chopped anyway. I think I'm valid in being cautious here. I expressed that I had one shot left what if I chose wrong and mess things up further? So basically me choosing not to use up my last shot means I'm mafia. I'm not upset or anything just putting my perspective out there.

But see, I think I believe Sabie when she says this. This tone is real. Sabie is adamant about her decision and offers no justifications beyond the immediate sense of caution she felt about pulling the trigger. She is correct that we've had a lot of vigilante misfires in this game. I can fully understand her reservations about pulling the trigger, and she makes it seem as though she was less willing to shoot paopan than either of her chat partners from last night.

Ok, but she expressed 0 of this hesitation in chat.

Sabie seems to suggest that she was not as enthusiastic about the plan as the two of you. Would you say that this was the case? How would you describe sabie's participation in the group chat?

[Belzy]

Sabie aint being truthful

[Creature]

She did say she only had a shot left and was nervous about being RBed, but she said she was shooting Paopan.

Wolves didn't bother roleblocking her N2?

[LinearPoint]

People really have to trust me Alaxa is town, we together wanted Mac dead, and Sabie was forced to join us

Well that makes Neeko a bit more confident. Was starting to worry she stopped a Vig from killing Alexa from what Ilario was saying.
Honestly ilario may just be misguided in their thought that Alexa claimed the Mafia shot her when shooting ilario since ilario's commute it not guaranteed that he was shot.

[Belzy]

People can discuss what they think I did or did not say in a btsc. I feel like that is a slippery slope. Alexa and belzy talked about it together and tried to make a decision on my behalf. It's very hard to defend myself against something that others cannot see. I have explained my thought process and where my apprehension came from and I expressed that in the chat. it was also discussed that if I didn't shoot paopan he would be chopped anyway. I think I'm valid in being cautious here. I expressed that I had one shot left what if I chose wrong and mess things up further? So basically me choosing not to use up my last shot means I'm mafia. I'm not upset or anything just putting my perspective out there.

But see, I think I believe Sabie when she says this. This tone is real. Sabie is adamant about her decision and offers no justifications beyond the immediate sense of caution she felt about pulling the trigger. She is correct that we've had a lot of vigilante misfires in this game. I can fully understand her reservations about pulling the trigger, and she makes it seem as though she was less willing to shoot paopan than either of her chat partners from last night.

Ok, but she expressed 0 of this hesitation in chat.

Sabie seems to suggest that she was not as enthusiastic about the plan as the two of you. Would you say that this was the case? How would you describe sabie's participation in the group chat?

Alexa and I pushed for the Mac lynch, with only paopan as alternatieve, but i really wanted Mac dead, alexa followed, sabie followed.

[falcon45ca]

If Paopon is scum with sabie and creature then they are bussing rn in the vc

I don't think it's all 3.

Who coulda woulda shoulda ya replace with whom?

You're not gonna like it, but I think sabie doesn't enter the POE just yet. There's others ahead of her IMO

[Creature]

If you all decide to lynch the town vig at least give me some cred for saving the town vig EOD2 even though they haven't been really useful the night after.

[Belzy]

People can discuss what they think I did or did not say in a btsc. I feel like that is a slippery slope. Alexa and belzy talked about it together and tried to make a decision on my behalf. It's very hard to defend myself against something that others cannot see. I have explained my thought process and where my apprehension came from and I expressed that in the chat. it was also discussed that if I didn't shoot paopan he would be chopped anyway. I think I'm valid in being cautious here. I expressed that I had one shot left what if I chose wrong and mess things up further? So basically me choosing not to use up my last shot means I'm mafia. I'm not upset or anything just putting my perspective out there.

But see, I think I believe Sabie when she says this. This tone is real. Sabie is adamant about her decision and offers no justifications beyond the immediate sense of caution she felt about pulling the trigger. She is correct that we've had a lot of vigilante misfires in this game. I can fully understand her reservations about pulling the trigger, and she makes it seem as though she was less willing to shoot paopan than either of her chat partners from last night.

Ok, but she expressed 0 of this hesitation in chat.

Sabie seems to suggest that she was not as enthusiastic about the plan as the two of you. Would you say that this was the case? How would you describe sabie's participation in the group chat?

Alexa and I pushed for the Mac lynch, with only paopan as alternatieve, but i really wanted Mac dead, alexa followed, sabie followed.

And like i said before: alexa started naming a name as first, namely Mac. So alexa and i together led the kill on Mac

[alexa]

People can discuss what they think I did or did not say in a btsc. I feel like that is a slippery slope. Alexa and belzy talked about it together and tried to make a decision on my behalf. It's very hard to defend myself against something that others cannot see. I have explained my thought process and where my apprehension came from and I expressed that in the chat. it was also discussed that if I didn't shoot paopan he would be chopped anyway. I think I'm valid in being cautious here. I expressed that I had one shot left what if I chose wrong and mess things up further? So basically me choosing not to use up my last shot means I'm mafia. I'm not upset or anything just putting my perspective out there.

But see, I think I believe Sabie when she says this. This tone is real. Sabie is adamant about her decision and offers no justifications beyond the immediate sense of caution she felt about pulling the trigger. She is correct that we've had a lot of vigilante misfires in this game. I can fully understand her reservations about pulling the trigger, and she makes it seem as though she was less willing to shoot paopan than either of her chat partners from last night.

Ok, but she expressed 0 of this hesitation in chat.

Sabie seems to suggest that she was not as enthusiastic about the plan as the two of you. Would you say that this was the case? How would you describe sabie's participation in the group chat?

If that's the case, she did not speak up about it at all, so I'm not sure why she's lying now. In the group chat, we all talked about how we scumread Mac and Pao, but were more confident on Mac and our shot couldn't be blocked so we went with it. Sabie seemed equally (or even more-so) confident on Paopan scum as well. I confirmed that she had a vig shot left and she confirmed she'd be firing it at Paopan

[falcon45ca]

If you all decide to lynch the town vig at least give me some cred for saving the town vig EOD2 even though they haven't been really useful the night after.

Nah

[Belzy]

Sabie talking inthread different than in our vig chat is scummy af, especially with broken a promise to me and Alexa

[Sloonei]

If that's the case, she did not speak up about it at all, so I'm not sure why she's lying now. In the group chat, we all talked about how we scumread Mac and Pao, but were more confident on Mac and our shot couldn't be blocked so we went with it. Sabie seemed equally (or even more-so) confident on Paopan scum as well. I confirmed that she had a vig shot left and she confirmed she'd be firing it at Paopan

@sabie12 is there anything untruthful in this summary?

[LinearPoint]

So Sabie said they would shoot Paopan if the group shot Mac, and Sabie then decided not to shoot Paopan?
Sorry, but if Paopan and Sabie are a team, why would she even say that in the first place knowing she wouldn't be shooting her teammate?

[alexa]

Sabie talking inthread different than in our vig chat is scummy af, especially with broken a promise to me and Alexa

yeah agreed



but also if she was going to overtly/maliciously lie, idk why she didn't soup us last night so we couldn't call her out. it's still sketchy af though

[Belzy]

People can discuss what they think I did or did not say in a btsc. I feel like that is a slippery slope. Alexa and belzy talked about it together and tried to make a decision on my behalf. It's very hard to defend myself against something that others cannot see. I have explained my thought process and where my apprehension came from and I expressed that in the chat. it was also discussed that if I didn't shoot paopan he would be chopped anyway. I think I'm valid in being cautious here. I expressed that I had one shot left what if I chose wrong and mess things up further? So basically me choosing not to use up my last shot means I'm mafia. I'm not upset or anything just putting my perspective out there.

But see, I think I believe Sabie when she says this. This tone is real. Sabie is adamant about her decision and offers no justifications beyond the immediate sense of caution she felt about pulling the trigger. She is correct that we've had a lot of vigilante misfires in this game. I can fully understand her reservations about pulling the trigger, and she makes it seem as though she was less willing to shoot paopan than either of her chat partners from last night.

Ok, but she expressed 0 of this hesitation in chat.

Sabie seems to suggest that she was not as enthusiastic about the plan as the two of you. Would you say that this was the case? How would you describe sabie's participation in the group chat?

If that's the case, she did not speak up about it at all, so I'm not sure why she's lying now. In the group chat, we all talked about how we scumread Mac and Pao, but were more confident on Mac and our shot couldn't be blocked so we went with it. Sabie seemed equally (or even more-so) confident on Paopan scum as well. I confirmed that she had a vig shot left and she confirmed she'd be firing it at Paopan

I confirm Alexa speaking the truth and nothing but the truth.

Amd Sabie being two faced, and broke a promise to me and Alexa.

[falcon45ca]

People can discuss what they think I did or did not say in a btsc. I feel like that is a slippery slope. Alexa and belzy talked about it together and tried to make a decision on my behalf. It's very hard to defend myself against something that others cannot see. I have explained my thought process and where my apprehension came from and I expressed that in the chat. it was also discussed that if I didn't shoot paopan he would be chopped anyway. I think I'm valid in being cautious here. I expressed that I had one shot left what if I chose wrong and mess things up further? So basically me choosing not to use up my last shot means I'm mafia. I'm not upset or anything just putting my perspective out there.

But see, I think I believe Sabie when she says this. This tone is real. Sabie is adamant about her decision and offers no justifications beyond the immediate sense of caution she felt about pulling the trigger. She is correct that we've had a lot of vigilante misfires in this game. I can fully understand her reservations about pulling the trigger, and she makes it seem as though she was less willing to shoot paopan than either of her chat partners from last night.

Ok, but she expressed 0 of this hesitation in chat.

Sabie seems to suggest that she was not as enthusiastic about the plan as the two of you. Would you say that this was the case? How would you describe sabie's participation in the group chat?

If that's the case, she did not speak up about it at all, so I'm not sure why she's lying now. In the group chat, we all talked about how we scumread Mac and Pao, but were more confident on Mac and our shot couldn't be blocked so we went with it. Sabie seemed equally (or even more-so) confident on Paopan scum as well. I confirmed that she had a vig shot left and she confirmed she'd be firing it at Paopan

If Sabie is Maf, what's her play here? Obvs she'd be aware that she didn't VK Pao as she told you, so why admit to holstering?


Wouldn't it have been the ultimate town cred to deepwolf by shooting Pa

[Sloonei]

So Sabie said they would shoot Paopan if the group shot Mac, and Sabie then decided not to shoot Paopan?
Sorry, but if Paopan and Sabie are a team, why would she even say that in the first place knowing she wouldn't be shooting her teammate?

This is a question I am also struggling with.

[Belzy]

Sabie talking inthread different than in our vig chat is scummy af, especially with broken a promise to me and Alexa

yeah agreed



but also if she was going to overtly/maliciously lie, idk why she didn't soup us last night so we couldn't call her out. it's still sketchy af though

I read somewhere soup kill can only happen with one mafia left, and has to be mafia goon. So maybe soup kill cannot happen rn

[Creature]

If you all decide to lynch the town vig at least give me some cred for saving the town vig EOD2 even though they haven't been really useful the night after.

Nah

If we mislynch today, I guess there's still a chance town may survive to see tomorrow. However, if you all decide to lynch the town vig then you all better find a way to resolve me because I suspect two mislynches in a row almost always results in a wolf win here.

[Creature]

Will there be any more events?

[alexa]

People can discuss what they think I did or did not say in a btsc. I feel like that is a slippery slope. Alexa and belzy talked about it together and tried to make a decision on my behalf. It's very hard to defend myself against something that others cannot see. I have explained my thought process and where my apprehension came from and I expressed that in the chat. it was also discussed that if I didn't shoot paopan he would be chopped anyway. I think I'm valid in being cautious here. I expressed that I had one shot left what if I chose wrong and mess things up further? So basically me choosing not to use up my last shot means I'm mafia. I'm not upset or anything just putting my perspective out there.

But see, I think I believe Sabie when she says this. This tone is real. Sabie is adamant about her decision and offers no justifications beyond the immediate sense of caution she felt about pulling the trigger. She is correct that we've had a lot of vigilante misfires in this game. I can fully understand her reservations about pulling the trigger, and she makes it seem as though she was less willing to shoot paopan than either of her chat partners from last night.

Ok, but she expressed 0 of this hesitation in chat.

Sabie seems to suggest that she was not as enthusiastic about the plan as the two of you. Would you say that this was the case? How would you describe sabie's participation in the group chat?

If that's the case, she did not speak up about it at all, so I'm not sure why she's lying now. In the group chat, we all talked about how we scumread Mac and Pao, but were more confident on Mac and our shot couldn't be blocked so we went with it. Sabie seemed equally (or even more-so) confident on Paopan scum as well. I confirmed that she had a vig shot left and she confirmed she'd be firing it at Paopan

If Sabie is Maf, what's her play here? Obvs she'd be aware that she didn't VK Pao as she told you, so why admit to holstering?


Wouldn't it have been the ultimate town cred to deepwolf by shooting Pa

i'm not sure, it is weird. if she's W/W with pao she could've also suggested a different target IG. i just don't get why she lied as town when she said she trusted us both

[Sloonei]

Sabie talking inthread different than in our vig chat is scummy af, especially with broken a promise to me and Alexa

yeah agreed



but also if she was going to overtly/maliciously lie, idk why she didn't soup us last night so we couldn't call her out. it's still sketchy af though

I read somewhere soup kill can only happen with one mafia left, and has to be mafia goon. So maybe soup kill cannot happen rn

This is incorrect, I think. My understanding is that the goon is only able to perform the soup kill if they are the only team member remaining. Any other team member can be designated to perform the soup kill on any night.

[Creature]

sabie12 doesn't strike me as someone with a big wolf mindset tbh

[sabie12]

Wow a broken promise. I did not make a promise to do anything. Again it's very hard to defend myself in a conversation that no one else can see and it is against the rules to quote btsc. What reason would I possibly have as mafia here to do that? I would have just shot someone without much thought or convinced you to shoot elsewhere. Again I'm not mad...just disappointed.

[Creature]

sabie12 doesn't strike me as someone with a big wolf mindset tbh

Like claiming town vig with extra shots D2

[Sloonei]

sabie12 doesn't strike me as someone with a big wolf mindset tbh

She is craftier than you might think.