GAME OF CHAMPIONS 2021 Endgame (town and 3p win)

[Sloonei]

c'mon man, a 3p literally won GoC last year.

ilario could well be telling the truth but i'd be a fool to believe it.

Context is important. The timing and nature of ilario’s claim influences my response to it, believe it or not.

See?

[Belzy]

The work Sloonei is putting in gives me a pause on reading them. Lp is a good lynch today, but then the final one is still something my mind is doubting.

I am currently trying to find reasons why it can't be JPIC.

I started off this day with LP+JPIC, and then LP+Sloonei.

JPIC looked good for their vote on TSP, but maybe worth to look into the context.

Dya, I still give them toen credits for the Marmot kill, but that is potentially dangerous to do.

I have been reading JPIC's ISO but not commenting on it. I was surprised at how underwhelming his TSP interactions were this time around. Granted, I am reading him through the lens of him being mafia right now.
He consistently suggests that TSP is a suspect, but never makes a real push on him or engages in any meaningful discussion around him. It has plenty of distancing potential.

The TSP interactions are what I initially gave him a town-read for, but I no longer feel that is warranted. None of his interactions with the other flipped wolves are inspiring either. The same can be said of his interactions with LinearPoint.

I have iso'd jpic some more. Just like the first few days, also the more recent days, jpic just keeps voting for town, and actually, jpic may have voted for tsp, but without tsp getting lynched, so maybe that was worth the distance vote. And see my previous Qfr post: the way jpic voted for tsp, was very pocket-y

I am back to Lp and Jpic. That originally instinct i started this game day with was right probably

[Justplayingitcool]

I also did not like JPIC's reaction to ilario's claim. It felt exaggerated. He was one of the most vocal opponents to the notion of "trusting a 3p." But, as I was arguing at the time, we were not being asked to trust a 3p. ilario poisoned alexa, then presented his argument for doing so, then told us he was 3p. All actions had already been set in motion by the time the claim came out. Jpic's resistance to ilario feels now like a sort of smoke screen to keep us from diving too deeply into the "Alexa is mafia" worldview that day.

Context matters.

Yes, I believe that was part of my argument at the time as well.

Right so you can see why someone who was in the infamous goc 2020 would be nervous about the 3p

Look at my reaction to hk

[Sloonei]

What if alexa had flipped town (as that was what I was expecting to happen) and ilario was still around. We just blindly allow a 3p running amok in the game

Then we'd be playing a game that is entirely different from the one we're in. Alexa did not flip town. The reason I was willing to listen to ilario was because I believed in his case against alexa. And he turned out to be right.

Are you suggesting that we should have voted for ilario that day?

[Justplayingitcool]

The work Sloonei is putting in gives me a pause on reading them. Lp is a good lynch today, but then the final one is still something my mind is doubting.

I am currently trying to find reasons why it can't be JPIC.

I started off this day with LP+JPIC, and then LP+Sloonei.

JPIC looked good for their vote on TSP, but maybe worth to look into the context.

Dya, I still give them toen credits for the Marmot kill, but that is potentially dangerous to do.

I have been reading JPIC's ISO but not commenting on it. I was surprised at how underwhelming his TSP interactions were this time around. Granted, I am reading him through the lens of him being mafia right now.
He consistently suggests that TSP is a suspect, but never makes a real push on him or engages in any meaningful discussion around him. It has plenty of distancing potential.

The TSP interactions are what I initially gave him a town-read for, but I no longer feel that is warranted. None of his interactions with the other flipped wolves are inspiring either. The same can be said of his interactions with LinearPoint.

I have iso'd jpic some more. Just like the first few days, also the more recent days, jpic just keeps voting for town, and actually, jpic may have voted for tsp, but without tsp getting lynched, so maybe that was worth the distance vote. And see my previous Qfr post: the way jpic voted for tsp, was very pocket-y

I am back to Lp and Jpic. That originally instinct i started this game day with was right probably

You called Alexa town and paopan a wolf as well of im not mistaken

[Sloonei]

I also did not like JPIC's reaction to ilario's claim. It felt exaggerated. He was one of the most vocal opponents to the notion of "trusting a 3p." But, as I was arguing at the time, we were not being asked to trust a 3p. ilario poisoned alexa, then presented his argument for doing so, then told us he was 3p. All actions had already been set in motion by the time the claim came out. Jpic's resistance to ilario feels now like a sort of smoke screen to keep us from diving too deeply into the "Alexa is mafia" worldview that day.

Context matters.

Yes, I believe that was part of my argument at the time as well.

Right so you can see why someone who was in the infamous goc 2020 would be nervous about the 3p

Look at my reaction to hk

Skepticism is fine. Your response to ilario specifically felt overblown.

[Justplayingitcool]

What if alexa had flipped town (as that was what I was expecting to happen) and ilario was still around. We just blindly allow a 3p running amok in the game

Then we'd be playing a game that is entirely different from the one we're in. Alexa did not flip town. The reason I was willing to listen to ilario was because I believed in his case against alexa. And he turned out to be right.

Are you suggesting that we should have voted for ilario that day?

No, i said we should leave both alexa and ilario alone that day.

Then alexa died from the modkill and i assumed she was going to flip town

[Justplayingitcool]

I also did not like JPIC's reaction to ilario's claim. It felt exaggerated. He was one of the most vocal opponents to the notion of "trusting a 3p." But, as I was arguing at the time, we were not being asked to trust a 3p. ilario poisoned alexa, then presented his argument for doing so, then told us he was 3p. All actions had already been set in motion by the time the claim came out. Jpic's resistance to ilario feels now like a sort of smoke screen to keep us from diving too deeply into the "Alexa is mafia" worldview that day.

Context matters.

Yes, I believe that was part of my argument at the time as well.

Right so you can see why someone who was in the infamous goc 2020 would be nervous about the 3p

Look at my reaction to hk

Skepticism is fine. Your response to ilario specifically felt overblown.

If you say so

[Justplayingitcool]

[VOTE: TonyStarkPrime] aubergine

falcon mvp

This feels a bit pockety.




Or am I being paranoid?

You are paranoid

Qfr

I voted TSP before this

[Belzy]

The work Sloonei is putting in gives me a pause on reading them. Lp is a good lynch today, but then the final one is still something my mind is doubting.

I am currently trying to find reasons why it can't be JPIC.

I started off this day with LP+JPIC, and then LP+Sloonei.

JPIC looked good for their vote on TSP, but maybe worth to look into the context.

Dya, I still give them toen credits for the Marmot kill, but that is potentially dangerous to do.

I have been reading JPIC's ISO but not commenting on it. I was surprised at how underwhelming his TSP interactions were this time around. Granted, I am reading him through the lens of him being mafia right now.
He consistently suggests that TSP is a suspect, but never makes a real push on him or engages in any meaningful discussion around him. It has plenty of distancing potential.

The TSP interactions are what I initially gave him a town-read for, but I no longer feel that is warranted. None of his interactions with the other flipped wolves are inspiring either. The same can be said of his interactions with LinearPoint.

I have iso'd jpic some more. Just like the first few days, also the more recent days, jpic just keeps voting for town, and actually, jpic may have voted for tsp, but without tsp getting lynched, so maybe that was worth the distance vote. And see my previous Qfr post: the way jpic voted for tsp, was very pocket-y

I am back to Lp and Jpic. That originally instinct i started this game day with was right probably

You called Alexa town and paopan a wolf as well of im not mistaken

Yes, i said that is my worst read of the game. .

I scumread Dizzy (tried to push for his death all game long until he got shot), Marmot (linking to Dizzy), HK (3p, so okay), TSP (voted there, okay, you did too, but that is all you did*), Mac (shot him)

*rest was just voting townies

But nice try. This post is scummy lol

[Sloonei]

No, i said we should leave both alexa and ilario alone that day.

Then alexa died from the modkill and i assumed she was going to flip town

So... what were you objecting to, exactly?

[Belzy]

Yeah, it is LP ans JPIC

[Belzy]

[VOTE: TonyStarkPrime] aubergine

falcon mvp

This feels a bit pockety.




Or am I being paranoid?

You are paranoid

Qfr

I voted TSP before this

Why so defensive @ a Qfr ? You are defensive.

[Belzy]

Well, if it are LP and JPIC, then a nice coming together ending between Sloonei, me, etc

[Justplayingitcool]

[VOTE: TonyStarkPrime] aubergine

falcon mvp

This feels a bit pockety.




Or am I being paranoid?

You are paranoid

Qfr

I voted TSP before this

Why so defensive @ a Qfr ? You are defensive.

I am defensive because you and sloonei are incorrectly reading me as mafia which will lose us the game.

[Justplayingitcool]

No, i said we should leave both alexa and ilario alone that day.

Then alexa died from the modkill and i assumed she was going to flip town

So... what were you objecting to, exactly?

I didn't trust anything Ilario said. I didn't trust the 3p won't inherit the mafia kill because that definitely didn't blow up in my face before. Again, look at my reaction to HK and tell me there was a difference.

I'm not gonna argue about my reaction because it's frankly fucking silly.

[Justplayingitcool]

The work Sloonei is putting in gives me a pause on reading them. Lp is a good lynch today, but then the final one is still something my mind is doubting.

I am currently trying to find reasons why it can't be JPIC.

I started off this day with LP+JPIC, and then LP+Sloonei.

JPIC looked good for their vote on TSP, but maybe worth to look into the context.

Dya, I still give them toen credits for the Marmot kill, but that is potentially dangerous to do.

I have been reading JPIC's ISO but not commenting on it. I was surprised at how underwhelming his TSP interactions were this time around. Granted, I am reading him through the lens of him being mafia right now.
He consistently suggests that TSP is a suspect, but never makes a real push on him or engages in any meaningful discussion around him. It has plenty of distancing potential.

The TSP interactions are what I initially gave him a town-read for, but I no longer feel that is warranted. None of his interactions with the other flipped wolves are inspiring either. The same can be said of his interactions with LinearPoint.

I have iso'd jpic some more. Just like the first few days, also the more recent days, jpic just keeps voting for town, and actually, jpic may have voted for tsp, but without tsp getting lynched, so maybe that was worth the distance vote. And see my previous Qfr post: the way jpic voted for tsp, was very pocket-y

I am back to Lp and Jpic. That originally instinct i started this game day with was right probably

You called Alexa town and paopan a wolf as well of im not mistaken

Yes, i said that is my worst read of the game. .

I scumread Dizzy (tried to push for his death all game long until he got shot), Marmot (linking to Dizzy), HK (3p, so okay), TSP (voted there, okay, you did too, but that is all you did*), Mac (shot him)

*rest was just voting townies

But nice try. This post is scummy lol

I scumread marmot, HK and TSP. The jpic only votes townies is bs

[Belzy]

I am currently trying to find reasons why it can't be JPIC.

I started off this day with LP+JPIC, and then LP+Sloonei.

JPIC looked good for their vote on TSP, but maybe worth to look into the context.

Dya, I still give them toen credits for the Marmot kill, but that is potentially dangerous to do.

I have been reading JPIC's ISO but not commenting on it. I was surprised at how underwhelming his TSP interactions were this time around. Granted, I am reading him through the lens of him being mafia right now.
He consistently suggests that TSP is a suspect, but never makes a real push on him or engages in any meaningful discussion around him. It has plenty of distancing potential.

The TSP interactions are what I initially gave him a town-read for, but I no longer feel that is warranted. None of his interactions with the other flipped wolves are inspiring either. The same can be said of his interactions with LinearPoint.

I have iso'd jpic some more. Just like the first few days, also the more recent days, jpic just keeps voting for town, and actually, jpic may have voted for tsp, but without tsp getting lynched, so maybe that was worth the distance vote. And see my previous Qfr post: the way jpic voted for tsp, was very pocket-y

I am back to Lp and Jpic. That originally instinct i started this game day with was right probably

You called Alexa town and paopan a wolf as well of im not mistaken

Yes, i said that is my worst read of the game. .

I scumread Dizzy (tried to push for his death all game long until he got shot), Marmot (linking to Dizzy), HK (3p, so okay), TSP (voted there, okay, you did too, but that is all you did*), Mac (shot him)

*rest was just voting townies

But nice try. This post is scummy lol

I scumread marmot, HK and TSP. The jpic only votes townies is bs

You voted for a lot of townies.

[Justplayingitcool]

I am town. Killing me will lose the game.

If your suspects are just me and LP then we have gone wrong somewhere

[Justplayingitcool]

I started off this day with LP+JPIC, and then LP+Sloonei.

JPIC looked good for their vote on TSP, but maybe worth to look into the context.

Dya, I still give them toen credits for the Marmot kill, but that is potentially dangerous to do.

I have been reading JPIC's ISO but not commenting on it. I was surprised at how underwhelming his TSP interactions were this time around. Granted, I am reading him through the lens of him being mafia right now.
He consistently suggests that TSP is a suspect, but never makes a real push on him or engages in any meaningful discussion around him. It has plenty of distancing potential.

The TSP interactions are what I initially gave him a town-read for, but I no longer feel that is warranted. None of his interactions with the other flipped wolves are inspiring either. The same can be said of his interactions with LinearPoint.

I have iso'd jpic some more. Just like the first few days, also the more recent days, jpic just keeps voting for town, and actually, jpic may have voted for tsp, but without tsp getting lynched, so maybe that was worth the distance vote. And see my previous Qfr post: the way jpic voted for tsp, was very pocket-y

I am back to Lp and Jpic. That originally instinct i started this game day with was right probably

You called Alexa town and paopan a wolf as well of im not mistaken

Yes, i said that is my worst read of the game. .

I scumread Dizzy (tried to push for his death all game long until he got shot), Marmot (linking to Dizzy), HK (3p, so okay), TSP (voted there, okay, you did too, but that is all you did*), Mac (shot him)

*rest was just voting townies

But nice try. This post is scummy lol

I scumread marmot, HK and TSP. The jpic only votes townies is bs

You voted for a lot of townies.

Who would have thought in a game where towns are the majority

[Belzy]

I have been reading JPIC's ISO but not commenting on it. I was surprised at how underwhelming his TSP interactions were this time around. Granted, I am reading him through the lens of him being mafia right now.
He consistently suggests that TSP is a suspect, but never makes a real push on him or engages in any meaningful discussion around him. It has plenty of distancing potential.

The TSP interactions are what I initially gave him a town-read for, but I no longer feel that is warranted. None of his interactions with the other flipped wolves are inspiring either. The same can be said of his interactions with LinearPoint.

I have iso'd jpic some more. Just like the first few days, also the more recent days, jpic just keeps voting for town, and actually, jpic may have voted for tsp, but without tsp getting lynched, so maybe that was worth the distance vote. And see my previous Qfr post: the way jpic voted for tsp, was very pocket-y

I am back to Lp and Jpic. That originally instinct i started this game day with was right probably

You called Alexa town and paopan a wolf as well of im not mistaken

Yes, i said that is my worst read of the game. .

I scumread Dizzy (tried to push for his death all game long until he got shot), Marmot (linking to Dizzy), HK (3p, so okay), TSP (voted there, okay, you did too, but that is all you did*), Mac (shot him)

*rest was just voting townies

But nice try. This post is scummy lol

I scumread marmot, HK and TSP. The jpic only votes townies is bs

You voted for a lot of townies.

Who would have thought in a game where towns are the majority

Lol

You don't respond well to pressure.

[Creature]

I hope this isn't DADV

[Belzy]

I am town. Killing me will lose the game.

If your suspects are just me and LP then we have gone wrong somewhere

Help us find who if not you.

[Justplayingitcool]

I have iso'd jpic some more. Just like the first few days, also the more recent days, jpic just keeps voting for town, and actually, jpic may have voted for tsp, but without tsp getting lynched, so maybe that was worth the distance vote. And see my previous Qfr post: the way jpic voted for tsp, was very pocket-y

I am back to Lp and Jpic. That originally instinct i started this game day with was right probably

You called Alexa town and paopan a wolf as well of im not mistaken

Yes, i said that is my worst read of the game. .

I scumread Dizzy (tried to push for his death all game long until he got shot), Marmot (linking to Dizzy), HK (3p, so okay), TSP (voted there, okay, you did too, but that is all you did*), Mac (shot him)

*rest was just voting townies

But nice try. This post is scummy lol

I scumread marmot, HK and TSP. The jpic only votes townies is bs

You voted for a lot of townies.

Who would have thought in a game where towns are the majority

Lol

You don't respond well to pressure.

ok. lynch me then

[Creature]

Weirdly it has been mostly the POE posting

[Creature]

Has anyone tried to read alexa for spews? She was probably the deepest wolf so she's less likely to be setting her partners up.

[Justplayingitcool]

I am town. Killing me will lose the game.

If your suspects are just me and LP then we have gone wrong somewhere

Help us find who if not you.

Sloonei, LP, sabie and Dya

Dya has cred for the kill on marmot, but I don't see why they can't be the lone wolf

I'm assuming LP is scum

I really doubt creature/falcon are faking their stuff so I am assuming legit.

[Creature]

I am somewhat afraid of it being dyachei + sabie bullshitting about BTSC

[Justplayingitcool]

I hope this isn't DADV

DADV is less reliable now we just have two mafia left

[Creature]

I know. It's just that the silent voteparking on the same name is always unsettling even if there's exactly only one mafia left.

[Justplayingitcool]

[VOTE: dyachei] aubergine

[Sloonei]

I didn't trust anything Ilario said. I didn't trust the 3p won't inherit the mafia kill because that definitely didn't blow up in my face before. Again, look at my reaction to HK and tell me there was a difference.

I'm not gonna argue about my reaction because it's frankly fucking silly.

Ilario wasn't going to inherit the nightkill that night in any world anyway. There were still two mafia left after alexa. If ilario did not vanish from the game after killing alexa, we would have known that he was lying and would have had as much of an opportunity to eliminate him as before. My argument here is that it never made sense to react the way that you did to ilario because A) he was not asking us to "trust him", and B) there was nothing we could do to prevent his actions from resolving anyway. All we were being asked to do was believe him or not believe him with regards to Alexa.

You seemed to be at least entertaining suspicion against alexa prior to ilario's claim. After the claim, your attention shifted to distrusting ilario.

[Belzy]

You called Alexa town and paopan a wolf as well of im not mistaken

Yes, i said that is my worst read of the game. .

I scumread Dizzy (tried to push for his death all game long until he got shot), Marmot (linking to Dizzy), HK (3p, so okay), TSP (voted there, okay, you did too, but that is all you did*), Mac (shot him)

*rest was just voting townies

But nice try. This post is scummy lol

I scumread marmot, HK and TSP. The jpic only votes townies is bs

You voted for a lot of townies.

Who would have thought in a game where towns are the majority

Lol

You don't respond well to pressure.

ok. lynch me then

This is no help. I hope you are scum because it isn't pro-town play.

[Justplayingitcool]

Have any of you actually read my past mafia games?

[Belzy]

I am town. Killing me will lose the game.

If your suspects are just me and LP then we have gone wrong somewhere

Help us find who if not you.

Sloonei, LP, sabie and Dya

Dya has cred for the kill on marmot, but I don't see why they can't be the lone wolf

I'm assuming LP is scum

I really doubt creature/falcon are faking their stuff so I am assuming legit.

If sabie is scum, then i would be surprised Alexa and Sabie agreed both with me to shoot Mac.

Dya is hard to say cuz is for personal reasons less involved, and the shot on Marmot could mean anything really.

Sloonei is looking really good today.

[Belzy]

Have any of you actually read my past mafia games?

I am playing this game.

[Justplayingitcool]

I didn't trust anything Ilario said. I didn't trust the 3p won't inherit the mafia kill because that definitely didn't blow up in my face before. Again, look at my reaction to HK and tell me there was a difference.

I'm not gonna argue about my reaction because it's frankly fucking silly.

Ilario wasn't going to inherit the nightkill that night in any world anyway. There were still two mafia left after alexa. If ilario did not vanish from the game after killing alexa, we would have known that he was lying and would have had as much of an opportunity to eliminate him as before. My argument here is that it never made sense to react the way that you did to ilario because A) he was not asking us to "trust him", and B) there was nothing we could do to prevent his actions from resolving anyway. All we were being asked to do was believe him or not believe him with regards to Alexa.

You seemed to be at least entertaining suspicion against alexa prior to ilario's claim. After the claim, your attention shifted to distrusting ilario.

Are you telling me every townie you have played with has a reaction that makes 'sense'.

B) that isn't true because Alexa could have been healed.

"All we were being asked to do was believe him or not believe him with regards to Alexa." - and I chose not to trust him

[Sloonei]

I am somewhat afraid of it being dyachei + sabie bullshitting about BTSC

at the very least I believe that they won the poetry contest. No one else has said a word about being rewarded for that. Well, TSP did but he was lying.

[Justplayingitcool]

Have any of you actually read my past mafia games?

I am playing this game.

So you don't use meta reads at all?

[Justplayingitcool]

I did not even bother to submit in the poetry contest. Same with the walrus

[Belzy]

Have any of you actually read my past mafia games?

I am playing this game.

So you don't use meta reads at all?

I actually have good games with people i never met before. The current game is most crucial for its solving. Scummy play is scummy play. We got over 10k posts to work with, a lot of voting pattern. Don't try to draw attention away from your scummy game which is this one.

[Sloonei]

Have any of you actually read my past mafia games?

I am playing this game.

So you don't use meta reads at all?

I see no problem with Belzy's approach right now.

[Justplayingitcool]

Have any of you actually read my past mafia games?

I am playing this game.

So you don't use meta reads at all?

I actually have good games with people i never met before. The current game is most crucial for its solving. Scummy play is scummy play. We got over 10k posts to work with, a lot of voting pattern. Don't try to draw attention away from your scummy game which is this one.

OK, but I am town. I'm just saying that I am completely out of my scum range

[Justplayingitcool]

I am town. what do you want me to do to prove my towniness

[Belzy]

Have any of you actually read my past mafia games?

I am playing this game.

So you don't use meta reads at all?

I actually have good games with people i never met before. The current game is most crucial for its solving. Scummy play is scummy play. We got over 10k posts to work with, a lot of voting pattern. Don't try to draw attention away from your scummy game which is this one.

OK, but I am town. I'm just saying that I am completely out of my scum range

I have seen a lot of players expand their so called scum range at any time. This is again drawing attention away from this game. Solving happens based on what has happened in this very thread. If you keep digressing away from that, I can never ever town read you, and perhaps that says it all.

[Belzy]

I am town. what do you want me to do to prove my towniness

Ding ding ding

Or, have 2 names looking more likely mafia than yourself.

[Creature]

I guess I can't process my mind until I see LinearPoint's flip. If LP flips wolf, then that confirms Belzy and Porscha and at least eliminates paranoia on the dyachei + sabie12 team. If LP flips town, then the team is either JPIC + Sloonei or we're doing something really wrong.

[Justplayingitcool]

I am town. Killing me will lose the game.

If your suspects are just me and LP then we have gone wrong somewhere

Help us find who if not you.

Sloonei, LP, sabie and Dya

Dya has cred for the kill on marmot, but I don't see why they can't be the lone wolf

I'm assuming LP is scum

I really doubt creature/falcon are faking their stuff so I am assuming legit.

If sabie is scum, then i would be surprised Alexa and Sabie agreed both with me to shoot Mac.

Dya is hard to say cuz is for personal reasons less involved, and the shot on Marmot could mean anything really.

Sloonei is looking really good today.

Mac was never surviving to end game

[Creature]

Btw, has anyone kept track of dyachei's votes? Besides Marmot, I don't remember dyachei really finding wolf.

[Sloonei]

Are you telling me every townie you have played with has a reaction that makes 'sense'.

B) that isn't true because Alexa could have been healed.

"All we were being asked to do was believe him or not believe him with regards to Alexa." - and I chose not to trust him

We knew that Alexa was poisoned. We knew that ilario claimed responsibility. We knew what ilario had told us about his role. We did not know whether it was possible for alexa to be healed.

In the world where alexa was healed, ilario's attempt to achieve his 3p goal would have failed. In which case, he'd be stuck in the thread having outed himself completely unnecessarily. ilario was safely in the towncore at the time of his claim. In this world, there is nothing we can do on Day 4 except wait to see what happens to alexa and ilario. This is what I mean when I say "there was nothing we could do to prevent his actions from resolving." Thus, we were never being asked to "trust" ilario in a game-sense. We were only being asked to trust a singular read he had made, and even that was not strictly necessary. "Trusting" his alexa read just meant playing that day as though alexa might be mafia, rather than confirmed town. Making a fuss about not trusting ilario just impedes our efforts to flesh out reads in the world where alexa is mafia.

I also have another concern which I'll articulate in a separate post.