Okay, so it turns out that this does in fact imply Wilgy hasn't said anything about his Hally and Marmot reads
And in this case "vocalized" means he said "I think Axe is town because he townread me"
This is pretty dumb
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Okay, so it turns out that this does in fact imply Wilgy hasn't said anything about his Hally and Marmot reads
i’m not sure
I get that my reads can be convoluted, but I wouldn't call that read complex metagaming. It was like 80% just describing why I think thing is town indicative and then noting that it checks out from a meta angle. Just doesn't seem like you get what I'm saying. Not mad, I'm used to it lol, but can you give it another try or something, and if that fails we can call it quits until I figure out some better wording?JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 3:12 pm @c4e5g3d5
I’m not sure I would associate town Alison with a see-what-sticks approach; regardless, I find this manner of complex metagaming to be too specific to tell a reliable story about any player.
If I expect anything of town Alison, it’s that I will understand what she is doing regardless of whether or not I agree. I don’t entirely understand her play here. I think I view her similarly to how others were viewing Mac when he showed up.
I'll take another look when I am able to focus. Hard to do much at the momentc4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 3:33 pmI get that my reads can be convoluted, but I wouldn't call that read complex metagaming. It was like 80% just describing why I think thing is town indicative and then noting that it checks out from a meta angle. Just doesn't seem like you get what I'm saying. Not mad, I'm used to it lol, but can you give it another try or something, and if that fails we can call it quits until I figure out some better wording?JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 3:12 pm @c4e5g3d5
I’m not sure I would associate town Alison with a see-what-sticks approach; regardless, I find this manner of complex metagaming to be too specific to tell a reliable story about any player.
If I expect anything of town Alison, it’s that I will understand what she is doing regardless of whether or not I agree. I don’t entirely understand her play here. I think I view her similarly to how others were viewing Mac when he showed up.
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:33 pm Just how many days of "let's yeet them tomorrow" can a mafioso survive?
The answer: all of them, if you are a marmot.
Alison Jay you hally dizzy radishes I think have said some form of itMarmot wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 3:12 pmWho has said that though?NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 3:04 pmLiterally everyone saying things like "I don't want a hammer" lolMarmot wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:26 pmNANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:25 pm Btw running people up is kind of pointless if you're vocally unwilling to hammer lol, the whole point of running people up is to see what happens when they get close to a hammer, but there's no tension to it if everyone knows there are only two or three people in this game whod actually hammer lol
Who is vocally unwilling to hammer?
Hally explain this one to me plz.Hally wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 7:16 pmand you’re also townc4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 7:12 pmRadish hypes up the whole did he think what I thought he thought thing, making it sound like there's a high bar for Jay to clear hereMaster Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 6:59 pmI bet I can answer this and if Jay explains what's in my head I'll return the lock town read on him.
All Jay has to offer is describing what Radish did and saying "this feels like town"JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 6:59 pmhis reception of Nanook doing the "Jay and Mac are outed" thing and conversion of that into "Nanook and Mac are outed" looked very real to me, even if he didn't intend for it to be taken as incredibly serious. The brain that happened in MR's brain to facilitate that read is something I don't figure mafia are braining on Page 1
And that's enough for Radish apparently
Bit of a letdown
I'm revisiting this per your request, c4. What you describe in orange is, to me, Alison rather than town Alison or mafia Alison. I am not sure I have seen Alison present her views of a game "inefficiently"; that is perhaps one of her core values as a player. I think it's plausible that she has tried to "stir the thread", and that such a description can be associated with some specific posts she has made if they are viewed with the most favorable available interpretation. Things like the elongated process of "reaction testing" Hally apply. To me, the important question is not "is this stylistically a town Alison action?" but rather it is "do I believe Alison is doing things for the reasons that she says she is doing things?".c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:19 pm This seems kinda Alison 101 lmao
Also I think the main reason for my Alison tr is presentation, still having trouble describing it but there's an efficiency to it, she gets to the point quickly and bluntly in a way that looks designed to hit harder when you read it
Just makes me actually believe she's trying to stir the thread, and I also think it describes what I've seen of v!Alison better than what I've seen of w!Alison
And generally she seems to not have any kind of schedule for who she pressures and when but these reads are always wrong from me so take that one with a grain of salt
Hally wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 8:25 pmalright, i’ll spoon feed it i guess
i think wolves generally aren’t bold enough to go that hard against jay declaring someone lock v and the content of c4’s case is one of those subtle things wolves don’t pick up on (unless they’re w/w)
also think it’s villagery from c4 specifically because i think it’s the sort of thing he tends to look for when solving and the way he followed up with it to me reads like how he gets when he believes he’s caught something, but i’d v read it from anyone
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 5:11 pmI'm revisiting this per your request, c4. What you describe in orange is, to me, Alison rather than town Alison or mafia Alison. I am not sure I have seen Alison present her views of a game "inefficiently"; that is perhaps one of her core values as a player. I think it's plausible that she has tried to "stir the thread", and that such a description can be associated with some specific posts she has made if they are viewed with the most favorable available interpretation. Things like the elongated process of "reaction testing" Hally apply. To me, the important question is not "is this stylistically a town Alison action?" but rather it is "do I believe Alison is doing things for the reasons that she says she is doing things?".c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:19 pm This seems kinda Alison 101 lmao
Also I think the main reason for my Alison tr is presentation, still having trouble describing it but there's an efficiency to it, she gets to the point quickly and bluntly in a way that looks designed to hit harder when you read it
Just makes me actually believe she's trying to stir the thread, and I also think it describes what I've seen of v!Alison better than what I've seen of w!Alison
And generally she seems to not have any kind of schedule for who she pressures and when but these reads are always wrong from me so take that one with a grain of salt
An example: I am not sure Alison's treatment of Hally can really be described as a "reaction test" or that I believe her when she claims it as such. There are certain motions in the general consensus that can be placed over Alison's handling of Hally like a stencil, and I think the fit would be close. Alison's read changed, abruptly and strongly, in a stage of play in which Hally's general stance of being threatened by the player base at large was concurrently waning outside of Alison's influence. I might be convoluting my explanation, so let me know if this doesn't make sense. I don't have a ton of confidence in this stuff, but I am trying to articulate why I might doubt Alison's play to this point. The Hally example is just one among a couple or a few that I could babble on about had I the time or inclination.
It's funny you say that because I was reviewing mac's iso and noticed he said his farting was intended as a reaction test for Hally.Master Radishes wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 5:50 pm 'Reaction test' has to be the most overused phrase in Mafia.
I suspect most such 'tests' are simply post hoc justifications for bad pushes.
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:33 pm Just how many days of "let's yeet them tomorrow" can a mafioso survive?
The answer: all of them, if you are a marmot.
This here post.MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 10:27 pmI intentionally made fart posts to get a reaction from you. You ignored it which I found sus because I figured it was because you were confused how to respond to me fart posting as town. Then you got moderately townier after you started trying to resolve me.
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:33 pm Just how many days of "let's yeet them tomorrow" can a mafioso survive?
The answer: all of them, if you are a marmot.
this post reminds me of how i caught mac in GoC when he declared sabie was lock v for no reason
If MR is red, Mac is probably more likely wolf lol. But MR is town anyways so waheveh
I thought the same thing, and this is the Marmot analysis I subscribed to. Thank you.Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 1:38 pmThe fact that Wilgy says the "team" could be actively avoiding it when a wolf MR could only have one teammate is actually a little townie imo, because I think scum!Wilgy would be more aware of the fact that there could only be one teammate which is not much of a team.
This here is why Marmot is town btwDyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 6:30 pmI thought the same thing, and this is the Marmot analysis I subscribed to. Thank you.Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 1:38 pmThe fact that Wilgy says the "team" could be actively avoiding it when a wolf MR could only have one teammate is actually a little townie imo, because I think scum!Wilgy would be more aware of the fact that there could only be one teammate which is not much of a team.
NahHally wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:00 pm nobody has any thoughts on this?
Hally wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 1:02 pm- treatment of alison is wolfy - opens saying he wants to sheep her while not yet having a read on her then v reads her for a weak reason that doesn’t really apply to her and makes no effort engage with/understand the suspicion surrounding her i.e. what villagers do when someone they v read is getting wolf read a ton. just don’t see any critical thought or drive to figure things out in his treatment of her and it reads more like he’s just trying to ingratiate himself to her.
- treatment of his nonconsensus suspects is wolfy - keeps throwing you out as a wolf read but does nothing about it. again, not what villagers do when someone they wolf read is getting widely v read. i think at one point he even threw out you/jay/dizzy as his suspects and you’re all being cleared pretty much, meaning from his pov town’s consensus is way off, yet i don’t see any of the concern in his posts that villagers have when they think everything is upside down.
- i find his treatment of me wolfy too but obviously biased there. just don’t feel like he’s been trying to solve me in a good faith way.Hally wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 1:06 pm also he and nanook know each other well afaik + nanook has been getting a lot of heat, but NAA has largely ignored him i think
i dunno, just not feeling the villager in the way he’s approaching anything but i’ve never played with him so maybe i’m backwards here
MkayJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 5:11 pmI'm revisiting this per your request, c4. What you describe in orange is, to me, Alison rather than town Alison or mafia Alison. I am not sure I have seen Alison present her views of a game "inefficiently"; that is perhaps one of her core values as a player. I think it's plausible that she has tried to "stir the thread", and that such a description can be associated with some specific posts she has made if they are viewed with the most favorable available interpretation. Things like the elongated process of "reaction testing" Hally apply. To me, the important question is not "is this stylistically a town Alison action?" but rather it is "do I believe Alison is doing things for the reasons that she says she is doing things?".c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:19 pm This seems kinda Alison 101 lmao
Also I think the main reason for my Alison tr is presentation, still having trouble describing it but there's an efficiency to it, she gets to the point quickly and bluntly in a way that looks designed to hit harder when you read it
Just makes me actually believe she's trying to stir the thread, and I also think it describes what I've seen of v!Alison better than what I've seen of w!Alison
And generally she seems to not have any kind of schedule for who she pressures and when but these reads are always wrong from me so take that one with a grain of salt
An example: I am not sure Alison's treatment of Hally can really be described as a "reaction test" or that I believe her when she claims it as such. There are certain motions in the general consensus that can be placed over Alison's handling of Hally like a stencil, and I think the fit would be close. Alison's read changed, abruptly and strongly, in a stage of play in which Hally's general stance of being threatened by the player base at large was concurrently waning outside of Alison's influence. I might be convoluting my explanation, so let me know if this doesn't make sense. I don't have a ton of confidence in this stuff, but I am trying to articulate why I might doubt Alison's play to this point. The Hally example is just one among a couple or a few that I could babble on about had I the time or inclination.
Lol. You should've seen my last couple of town games ig.Hally wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 3:20 pmi’m not sure
i agree with where his head’s been at generally but i feel his vibe/presence is off in the sense that as a villager i feel like tries not to care but then gets sucked into it anyway whereas here i feel like he’s almost overplaying how little he cares in a way that might actually be wolfy for him
i’ve seen wolves lay on the idc vibe too thick because they think that if they’re so blatant about it people will actually level themselves out of wolf reading them for it (w!alexa does this for example)
but i don’t know actually know if that’s the line dizzy would take here as a wolf and it’s entirely possible his mood is off and it means nothing
It goes without saying though. We all know who would actually push a hammer early and who wouldn't. S H R U GNANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 4:42 pmAlison Jay you hally dizzy radishes I think have said some form of itMarmot wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 3:12 pmWho has said that though?NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 3:04 pmLiterally everyone saying things like "I don't want a hammer" lolMarmot wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:26 pmNANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:25 pm Btw running people up is kind of pointless if you're vocally unwilling to hammer lol, the whole point of running people up is to see what happens when they get close to a hammer, but there's no tension to it if everyone knows there are only two or three people in this game whod actually hammer lol
Who is vocally unwilling to hammer?
Idk I'm not fact checking right now that's just offhand
How about you explain how it's towny?MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 6:44 pmI read his iso and it was townie... explain how it wasn't? first 9 posts.
i’ve already explained in great detail why i don’t think it isMacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 6:44 pmI read his iso and it was townie... explain how it wasn't? first 9 posts.
More on Mac? I haven't seen you say anything to imply a strong Mac read, is it just that you thought on your resons for a weak read and decided they were strong?JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 5:18 pm Town reads
c4e5g3d5
Hally
MacDougall
Marmot
There's some dissonance here, but gun to head town
Dyslexicon
Master Radishes
Not town reads
Alison
DrWilgy
Nanook
NAA
At 9 vs. 2, an ordinary set of roles would call for a POE pool of 5 players (2 mafia + 3 mischops). The arrangement of this game's matrix provides the likelihood (certainty?) of a mischop being lost to an extra mafia kill or beloved princess, so reduce the POE to 4. We'd then need 6 town reads to square the game away, which for the moment does seem like a genuine challenge. I have a theoretical POE built above, but I would like to be more confident about it than I am.
Evertime I try to read some over complicated Jimmay-post, I'm considering if using overly convoluted explanations and sentences and words and shit is scum indicative for Jimmay. I just had that feeling.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 5:11 pmI'm revisiting this per your request, c4. What you describe in orange is, to me, Alison rather than town Alison or mafia Alison. I am not sure I have seen Alison present her views of a game "inefficiently"; that is perhaps one of her core values as a player. I think it's plausible that she has tried to "stir the thread", and that such a description can be associated with some specific posts she has made if they are viewed with the most favorable available interpretation. Things like the elongated process of "reaction testing" Hally apply. To me, the important question is not "is this stylistically a town Alison action?" but rather it is "do I believe Alison is doing things for the reasons that she says she is doing things?".c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:19 pm This seems kinda Alison 101 lmao
Also I think the main reason for my Alison tr is presentation, still having trouble describing it but there's an efficiency to it, she gets to the point quickly and bluntly in a way that looks designed to hit harder when you read it
Just makes me actually believe she's trying to stir the thread, and I also think it describes what I've seen of v!Alison better than what I've seen of w!Alison
And generally she seems to not have any kind of schedule for who she pressures and when but these reads are always wrong from me so take that one with a grain of salt
An example: I am not sure Alison's treatment of Hally can really be described as a "reaction test" or that I believe her when she claims it as such. There are certain motions in the general consensus that can be placed over Alison's handling of Hally like a stencil, and I think the fit would be close. Alison's read changed, abruptly and strongly, in a stage of play in which Hally's general stance of being threatened by the player base at large was concurrently waning outside of Alison's influence. I might be convoluting my explanation, so let me know if this doesn't make sense. I don't have a ton of confidence in this stuff, but I am trying to articulate why I might doubt Alison's play to this point. The Hally example is just one among a couple or a few that I could babble on about had I the time or inclination.
Wilgy is town.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 5:18 pm Town reads
c4e5g3d5
Hally
MacDougall
Marmot
There's some dissonance here, but gun to head town
Dyslexicon
Master Radishes
Not town reads
Alison
DrWilgy
Nanook
NAA
At 9 vs. 2, an ordinary set of roles would call for a POE pool of 5 players (2 mafia + 3 mischops). The arrangement of this game's matrix provides the likelihood (certainty?) of a mischop being lost to an extra mafia kill or beloved princess, so reduce the POE to 4. We'd then need 6 town reads to square the game away, which for the moment does seem like a genuine challenge. I have a theoretical POE built above, but I would like to be more confident about it than I am.
Entirely for that one post? Big meh.Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 6:49 pmWilgy is town.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 5:18 pm Town reads
c4e5g3d5
Hally
MacDougall
Marmot
There's some dissonance here, but gun to head town
Dyslexicon
Master Radishes
Not town reads
Alison
DrWilgy
Nanook
NAA
At 9 vs. 2, an ordinary set of roles would call for a POE pool of 5 players (2 mafia + 3 mischops). The arrangement of this game's matrix provides the likelihood (certainty?) of a mischop being lost to an extra mafia kill or beloved princess, so reduce the POE to 4. We'd then need 6 town reads to square the game away, which for the moment does seem like a genuine challenge. I have a theoretical POE built above, but I would like to be more confident about it than I am.
What's the dissonance with me?
@Hally I don't think Wilgy ever cares about wanting to read me correctly as scum or asks around. He usually slaps a scum read on me or just doesn't care at all. You could say "But pretending", but nah. I just think he's town and I've decided. His thoughts are weird, but that is not uncommon.Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 6:41 pmThis is like super towny for Wilgy for me. Wilgy says this and other stuff he's said by now as town.
@Master Radishes hopefully if I ask this way it's slightly less tail-chasingMaster Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 6:59 pmI bet I can answer this and if Jay explains what's in my head I'll return the lock town read on him.
It is that, and I just feel it.
really? i feel like asking the thread for their read on someone is so easy to fake as a wolfDyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 6:52 pm@Hally I don't think Wilgy ever cares about wanting to read me correctly as scum or asks around. He usually slaps a scum read on me or just doesn't care at all. You could say "But pretending", but nah. I just think he's town and I've decided. His thoughts are weird, but that is not uncommon.Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 6:41 pmThis is like super towny for Wilgy for me. Wilgy says this and other stuff he's said by now as town.
Sure.Hally wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 6:54 pmreally? i feel like asking the thread for their read on someone is so easy to fake as a wolfDyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 6:52 pm@Hally I don't think Wilgy ever cares about wanting to read me correctly as scum or asks around. He usually slaps a scum read on me or just doesn't care at all. You could say "But pretending", but nah. I just think he's town and I've decided. His thoughts are weird, but that is not uncommon.Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 6:41 pmThis is like super towny for Wilgy for me. Wilgy says this and other stuff he's said by now as town.
also i gave a lengthy reply to him that he ignored, which makes me think he didn’t really care about his question
Orange just reads like such bs.Alison wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 12:18 amI don't think he is
I re-read MR though and some stuff pings me (specifically the flat-sounding attempt to sound like an egoistical townie angry that people are assuming they're out of their scum range, and the repetition of "witty opening post" making for a kinda stilted entrance). So I [VOTE: Master Radishes] aubergine.
Which is an obvious joke. I don't think town!Alison reads this as a "flat-sounding attempt to sound like an egotistical towny angry that people are assuming they're out of their scum range". Too many words anyway.