Highway Heist (MAFIA WIN)

[MacDougall]

So the only person in both their POE is me, and I am town... Alison had four names above NAA and Marmot had NAA in there. I shielded NAA a lot on day 1. So the mafia are clearly me and NAA. Except I am town.

[MacDougall]

[VOTE: NotAnAxehole] aubergine?

[c4e5g3d5]

The argument was kinda dumb and also somehow doesn't change any of my reads so gj guys

What was dumb about it and what reads did you have that aren't changed?

What was dumb is that you flooded the thread with blatant falsehoods and pushed people for not debunking them with a fine-tooth comb, and it's NAI for you.

The reads that didn't change were... I mean, all of them? Don't see how I was implying anything else. Only alignment takeaway I had was that Jay's reflexive catch on Radish's comment was towny, which changed my Jay read from v to v.

Such as?

The obvious one is "Jay didn't do preflip interactions"
Then "Jay's Hally read changing means the reason his Hally read changed has to have been the most recent thing he said about Hally"

What is my reaction and why is it bad? Is this you trying to make me look bad after a red flip or something?

This got bizarre so fast. I bet it’s pretty hilarious in specchat in some way or another.

No you are sidelining hot takes that feel like cheerleading Jay in a really scummy way and even Jay noticed it.

Your yammering makes zero sense to me. Sorryboutit.

You’re accusing Hally and clearing Hally on breathing in and out.

Or I just don’t get it.

And I believe that if there’s scum between j/hally, it’s likelier to be hally.

You also exaggerate what is happening for some reason. MR and Nanook have had no issues following my train of thought at all. Also you are acting like me changing up me reads and behaving in a weathervaney way is unexpected.

Have either of these two even interacted with your posting today dafuq

[MacDougall]

Yes they both commented on it.

[MacDougall]

Imagine putting weight on socky awards

spoken like someone with no sockys

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Nanook claimed to have given many town tells.

Do the town tells exist?

[c4e5g3d5]

Yeah I am asking what the reads were that you went into reading it all with that didn't change C4. ie. who are you townreading and scumreading before, and now?

My townreads on Hally and Jay didn't change, my weaker townread on Dizzy didn't change, my "when is this dude gonna start" read on you didn't change because your push just now was clearly either fake or a wolf

[MacDougall]

Yeah I am asking what the reads were that you went into reading it all with that didn't change C4. ie. who are you townreading and scumreading before, and now?

My townreads on Hally and Jay didn't change, my weaker townread on Dizzy didn't change, my "when is this dude gonna start" read on you didn't change because your push just now was clearly either fake or a wolf

[VOTE: c4] aubergine

[Hally]

c4’s entrance feels kinda underwhelming, i agree

[JaggedJimmyJay]

To clarify Mac's gripe about my interactive reads:

I have in the past, many times, said that pre-flip association reads are a bad idea in isolation, especially when they're "w/w" reads. When people randomly through out Day 1 theories of two people being teamed in the absence of broader game theory or context, I tend to view that solving as ill-advised and often damaging. As such, I don't fault Mac for the impression that I don't do pre-flip associative reads. My charts are a much broader project in which I do ALL pre-flip associative reads that can possibly exist two-way, to construct a complete theory of the game. It's the macro version. Macro good, micro sometimes bad. My intention with the Hally read in question had been of a more macro and contextualized character -- does Hally as mafia make sense with these various possible teammates, and what happens to my theory of the game if I accept or reject the Alison dichotomy -- etc.

tl;dr, I don't think Mac was necessarily "lying" about my game. I think he was oversimplifying it, which isn't necessarily a major crime.

[c4e5g3d5]

c4’s entrance feels kinda underwhelming, i agree

Same

[Hally]

i think it’s possible, maybe even likely that all of dizzy/jay/mac are town

[MacDougall]

To clarify Mac's gripe about my interactive reads:

I have in the past, many times, said that pre-flip association reads are a bad idea in isolation, especially when they're "w/w" reads. When people randomly through out Day 1 theories of two people being teamed in the absence of broader game theory or context, I tend to view that solving as ill-advised and often damaging. As such, I don't fault Mac for the impression that I don't do pre-flip associative reads. My charts are a much broader project in which I do ALL pre-flip associative reads that can possibly exist two-way, to construct a complete theory of the game. It's the macro version. Macro good, micro sometimes bad. My intention with the Hally read in question had been of a more macro and contextualized character -- does Hally as mafia make sense with these various possible teammates, and what happens to my theory of the game if I accept or reject the Alison dichotomy -- etc.

tl;dr, I don't think Mac was necessarily "lying" about my game. I think he was oversimplifying it, which isn't necessarily a major crime.

Congratulations on your scum win.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

c4’s entrance feels kinda underwhelming, i agree

Same

How do the Day 1 and Night 1 kills impact your broader view of the game?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I am not super comfortable with Dizzy right now. Gonna just let him play and develop my feelings.

[Hally]

c4’s entrance feels kinda underwhelming, i agree

Same

who are the wolves?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Imagine putting weight on socky awards

spoken like someone with no sockys

Watch it bub you're talking to the two time reigning host of the year and 2021 mvp finalist

[MacDougall]

Imagine putting weight on socky awards

spoken like someone with no sockys

Watch it bub you're talking to the two time reigning host of the year and 2021 mvp finalist

oh damn sorry

[JaggedJimmyJay]

sometimes when I forget my towel in the bathroom i just drape my sockys over my body to cover up

[c4e5g3d5]

c4’s entrance feels kinda underwhelming, i agree

Same

How do the Day 1 and Night 1 kills impact your broader view of the game?

I don't usually do much with legacy but this looks like the kind of list where I should do something with legacy
Axe and Wilgy looking like distractions was the big takeaway

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Nanook's milquetoast treatment of NAA might be his worst bit in this game

[Hally]

I am not super comfortable with Dizzy right now. Gonna just let him play and develop my feelings.

his treatment of me, as much as i hate it, is actually villagery for him imo

i think as a wolf he’s more likely to just pocket me and then NK me or maybe outright push me

the weird middle ground he’s doing seems more like how he gets as a villager when he feels something is wrong and assumes that must be because i’m a wolf, but i can kinda tell he’s scared to be wrong about it

[c4e5g3d5]

c4’s entrance feels kinda underwhelming, i agree

Same

who are the wolves?

Nook is wolfy and I haven't felt a need to persuade anyone

"Mac needs to step it up" has been hammered into all of us enough
Gut says he's been playing in a generally unaligned way but I don't normally need my gut with Mac

I have reasons to like all of Axe/Dizzy/Radish/Wilgy and just need some of them to be stronger ffs

[MacDougall]

why do I need to step it up anyway?

[MacDougall]

I've given more solving and content than you and most others.

[Hally]

Nanook's milquetoast treatment of NAA might be his worst bit in this game

i think it goes both ways i.e. i would expect both of them to have a more defined read on each other by now than they do

actually was wondering N1 if they’re the exact team and are just scared to take stances on each other, and i think it also fits with their treatment of each other today (they’ve both placed each other in their PoE but towards the back of it)

[c4e5g3d5]

I've given more solving and content than you and most others.

Buzzer

[MacDougall]

c4’s entrance feels kinda underwhelming, i agree

Same

who are the wolves?

Nook is wolfy and I haven't felt a need to persuade anyone

"Mac needs to step it up" has been hammered into all of us enough
Gut says he's been playing in a generally unaligned way but I don't normally need my gut with Mac

I have reasons to like all of Axe/Dizzy/Radish/Wilgy and just need some of them to be stronger ffs

what are those reasons?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Nanook's milquetoast treatment of NAA might be his worst bit in this game

Lol

[MacDougall]

I've given more solving and content than you and most others.

Buzzer

I absolutely empirically and demonstrably have.

[Hally]

treating NAA as a villager is hard

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I know axe well but I have never claimed a god read on him

[c4e5g3d5]

Hally tell me about Mac
Normally there's light at the end of a Mac tunnel and I'm still waiting for that so what do you like about him so far

[MacDougall]

Like c4 there is literally no argument you can make that is "c4 has produced more content and solved harder than mac". It's just completely obviously not the case.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Nanook's milquetoast treatment of NAA might be his worst bit in this game

i think it goes both ways i.e. i would expect both of them to have a more defined read on each other by now than they do

actually was wondering N1 if they’re the exact team and are just scared to take stances on each other, and i think it also fits with their treatment of each other today (they’ve both placed each other in their PoE but towards the back of it)

What makes you think this? The bolded part

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I know axe well but I have never claimed a god read on him

I don’t need a god read. I need any read.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I know axe well but I have never claimed a god read on him

I don’t need a god read. I need any read.

Null, he's basically rand to me

[NotAnAxehole]

I think Nanook can only read me when I town tell very hard.

[c4e5g3d5]

c4’s entrance feels kinda underwhelming, i agree

Same

who are the wolves?

Nook is wolfy and I haven't felt a need to persuade anyone

"Mac needs to step it up" has been hammered into all of us enough
Gut says he's been playing in a generally unaligned way but I don't normally need my gut with Mac

I have reasons to like all of Axe/Dizzy/Radish/Wilgy and just need some of them to be stronger ffs

what are those reasons?

Axe has a towny self-absorption
Dizzy is being significantly more effective and less agenda'd than GoC
Radish's takes have felt like they came without obligation
Wilgy made catches I didn't expect him to when I didn't expect him to

[c4e5g3d5]

Like c4 there is literally no argument you can make that is "c4 has produced more content and solved harder than mac". It's just completely obviously not the case.

Oh my god.

[Hally]

Hally tell me about Mac
Normally there's light at the end of a Mac tunnel and I'm still waiting for that so what do you like about him so far

idk, once i untilted myself and tried to think things through i just felt he was town

like, the way he entered today with “wolves are running the game we’re all getting duped” just feels like that town!mac fire

go back and look at how he entered D2 in GoC as a wolf

i locked him as a wolf from spec because D1 town got kinda stomped but D2 he entered and had like no fire whatsoever and was posting lazy

when mac is a villager and thinks town is getting wrecked this is more like how he gets ime

[Hally]

Nanook's milquetoast treatment of NAA might be his worst bit in this game

i think it goes both ways i.e. i would expect both of them to have a more defined read on each other by now than they do

actually was wondering N1 if they’re the exact team and are just scared to take stances on each other, and i think it also fits with their treatment of each other today (they’ve both placed each other in their PoE but towards the back of it)

What makes you think this? The bolded part

when people from the same community who know each other well are in a game together they tend to focus a lot on getting a read on each other

[Hally]

I think Nanook can only read me when I town tell very hard.

you can start doing that any time

[MacDougall]

Like c4 there is literally no argument you can make that is "c4 has produced more content and solved harder than mac". It's just completely obviously not the case.

Oh my god.

It's literally available to you to read. You've been a ghost I've forgotten has been in the game for the majority of it and reading your ISO I can see why because you're said nothing controversial all game and have just had hedgy under the radar takes.

[c4e5g3d5]

Like c4 there is literally no argument you can make that is "c4 has produced more content and solved harder than mac". It's just completely obviously not the case.

Oh my god.

It's literally available to you to read. You've been a ghost I've forgotten has been in the game for the majority of it and reading your ISO I can see why because you're said nothing controversial all game and have just had hedgy under the radar takes.

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

Oh my god.

[MacDougall]

Cool response.

[Hally]

there’s a world where mac is a wolf trying hard as fuck to expand the PoE but starting with attacking me and jay who are both hard town reading each other dowsing seem like the way to do it

[Hally]

there’s a world where mac is a wolf trying hard as fuck to expand the PoE but starting with attacking me and jay who are both hard town reading each other dowsing seem like the way to do it

*doesn’t

[Hally]

c4, can you talk more about your progression on alison? i get how you went from “i think alison v” to “not shielding her anymore” but i don’t get how you went from that to voting her

[c4e5g3d5]

Hally tell me about Mac
Normally there's light at the end of a Mac tunnel and I'm still waiting for that so what do you like about him so far

idk, once i untilted myself and tried to think things through i just felt he was town

like, the way he entered today with “wolves are running the game we’re all getting duped” just feels like that town!mac fire

go back and look at how he entered D2 in GoC as a wolf

i locked him as a wolf from spec because D1 town got kinda stomped but D2 he entered and had like no fire whatsoever and was posting lazy

when mac is a villager and thinks town is getting wrecked this is more like how he gets ime

I'm seeing it