Dr. Who Mafia - Night 12

[Gotrees]

Hey guys, sorry I've missed a bunch of posts these past few days. I don't have classes tomorrow, so I'll try to devote the next 24 hours or so to catching up with mafia.

I'll let you all know when I've finished catching up.

Sorry for my absence!

[Long Con]

Well, that's an interesting theory, Chris and keys. You're not Amy Pond, Chris. I can't wait for MP to end the day early and bring this sweet plan to fruition!

But keys, you gotta get in here. Let's end the day early with the four of us tied in votes! That would be awesome, quadro-coin-flip! I can't wait.

Oh wait. I CAN wait. Probably for a long time. Because the day is probably not going to end early because of the insane whim of Chris.

[Chris]

So tell me LC... what's got you so convinced that I'm a baddie that you've voted for me so early?

And I'll add one trick to this question... try to answer it without bringing up me having just survived a NK.

[keys56000000000]

That sounds like fun, LC, but I'm not feeling an MP or Chris lynch atm. I want to go in another direction.

[Long Con]

The real reason I voted for you early was that you potentially outed Amy Pond after I specifically responded to your first insane attempt, warning you against it. Don't do that, that's classic unCivvielike behaviour. Shame on you, so blatant, just out in public like that.

It directly followed what looks like a really waffley, changing, overly verbal explanation of why you survived, which I agree was supicious. Why jump around like that if you're not hiding something? I dunno, but that factor added weight to the idea you were the guy for me, easy enough to go with due to my elevated anger toward you from the Amy Pond Incident.

Then there is the fact that you and keys were high up in my own case, The Case Of The Role-Blocked Ruffian. Makes it that much easier for me to say, "Let's lynch this guy. Maybe I'm right. That would be awesome!"

Your worrying that the lynch was going to end early was the icing on the cake, it's like, this dude is saying "please don't vote me, I think they're gonna end it early on me, help!", and I was like, "Not today, dude. Today I do what you don't want, because you upset me. Stop this silly lynch talk, Chicken Little."

.... so that's my most honest and exacting explanation of why it is that my vote is still sitting on your ass, Chris. I assure you that it is as perfect an explanation as I can recollect from this morning. You know how it is.

I'm going to leave that vote right where it is for now. Feel free to keep reacting in whatever way you think is sound.

[Long Con]

That sounds like fun, LC, but I'm not feeling an MP or Chris lynch atm. I want to go in another direction.

Fair enough, maybe next time.

Oh, and Chris, I forgot, I DID mention the NK survival thing. I know you asked me not to, but I'm not interested in dancing around or telling the same story twice, so I just told it like it was, not edited for content.

[S~V~S]

I am still most suspicious of Epi, and of him being on the cyber team. I need to reread his posts as re Chris to see how sure he is about Chris' role.

As for Chris, I think the Master is a possibility for him. My experience of Indy Chris is that he plays it as a civ, in that he does not get that evil mastermind thing going in thread quite as much. I also have to say, based on my experience hosting him, that I think he has a pretty awesome role. He asks about that before replacing in, and the "quality* of the role matters to him. Plus he has been really active, if he had a role that HE perceived as sucking, I don't think he would be as invested.

If he is the Master, and he had BTS with MM, he did not have it for long, IMO. He has not been acting like BTS Chris. That said, he could have changed up his game. The possibly outing a civ is troubling, although to be fair, Chris is always fairly manic about stuff like that, "Was it a tie", etc., and it is possible that he wasn't thinking when he asked that question, BUT as LC says, he was warned.

Odds are good I am going to vote Epi again, there is more than one baddie, but I totally can see Chris as the Master. And yes, I can see Reywas replacing out of the Master. He has been disinterested and uninvolved recently, replacing out of many games, or just low posting. He has RL, and Mafia is not his priority at this time. Now, CHRIS might not replace out of the Master, but Rey would, I think.

[Epignosis]

I am not a robot.

Like, how many times do I have to say it?

[Chris]

The real reason I voted for you early was that you potentially outed Amy Pond after I specifically responded to your first insane attempt, warning you against it. Don't do that, that's classic unCivvielike behaviour. Shame on you, so blatant, just out in public like that.

But I didn't potentially out Amy Pond. As keys said, if I did anything, it was the first step of a long process that would be required to figure that out. And who even knows if Amy Pond is even alive. I think that is your convenient excuse to keep people from figuring out that you have extra votes to play with. And the last lynch being a tie was exactly what you DIDN'T want. Which is why you didn't want anyone asking questions about ties.

quote][It directly followed what looks like a really waffley, changing, overly verbal explanation of why you survived, which I agree was supicious. Why jump around like that if you're not hiding something? I dunno, but that factor added weight to the idea you were the guy for me, easy enough to go with due to my elevated anger toward you from the Amy Pond Incident.[\quote]

So the fact that I survived, and didn't come right into the thread and out my role was what really did it for you? "Waffely, changing, overly verbal explanation"? Here are all three of my posts before you voted me:

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 615#p90615
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 617#p90617
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 630#p90630

I didn't waffle. I didn't change. It wasn't overly verbal. I said that there were plenty of ways I could have survived. Why is my death any more suspicious than anyone else who survived a night kill? (I know why, but I want to hear you say it) Plus, nice job using my survival against me anyway. Now I'd love to hear why you don't suspect BR or Elo....

Then there is the fact that you and keys were high up in my own case, The Case Of The Role-Blocked Ruffian. Makes it that much easier for me to say, "Let's lynch this guy. Maybe I'm right. That would be awesome!"

You're what? I have no idea what you're talking about. keys, you know anything about this?

quote][Your worrying that the lynch was going to end early was the icing on the cake, it's like, this dude is saying "please don't vote me, I think they're gonna end it early on me, help!", and I was like, "Not today, dude. Today I do what you don't want, because you upset me. Stop this silly lynch talk, Chicken Little."

.... so that's my most honest and exacting explanation of why it is that my vote is still sitting on your ass, Chris. I assure you that it is as perfect an explanation as I can recollect from this morning. You know how it is.

I'm going to leave that vote right where it is for now. Feel free to keep reacting in whatever way you think is sound.[/quote]

My worrying about a lynch ending early was only added after I saw MP vote me, and I had no time to defend against it. And, why vote so early anyway? But then when I voted him back, and you rushed to his rescue... well... that was just an awesome unintended side effect.

Thanks for that!

Really, what I see in your explanation is a quickly cooked up case to vote someone early to hide a ulterior motivated vote.


LINKI @ SVS: See, now that's something I can see someone accusing me of. I'm not The Master of course, but I can see how you can think so. I didn't vote for MM. I went for Epig without much reason other than I was tired of hearing about the lie detector shit, and he was acting differently enough for me to vote him just to end it. It wasn't a great reason, but I also didn't care who was lynched between the two of them.

Looking back at who The Master targeted, I don't have much to say in defense, since I can't say I did much in regards to them. The Master targeted Rico, and I was for a Rico lynch... so there's not much else there. The problem with being accused of being the indy role is it's tough to defend against. Especially when SVS puts it the way she did.

But I'm not The Master.

[Chris]

The real reason I voted for you early was that you potentially outed Amy Pond after I specifically responded to your first insane attempt, warning you against it. Don't do that, that's classic unCivvielike behaviour. Shame on you, so blatant, just out in public like that.

But I didn't potentially out Amy Pond. As keys said, if I did anything, it was the first step of a long process that would be required to figure that out. And who even knows if Amy Pond is even alive. I think that is your convenient excuse to keep people from figuring out that you have extra votes to play with. And the last lynch being a tie was exactly what you DIDN'T want. Which is why you didn't want anyone asking questions about ties.

quote][It directly followed what looks like a really waffley, changing, overly verbal explanation of why you survived, which I agree was supicious. Why jump around like that if you're not hiding something? I dunno, but that factor added weight to the idea you were the guy for me, easy enough to go with due to my elevated anger toward you from the Amy Pond Incident.[\quote]

So the fact that I survived, and didn't come right into the thread and out my role was what really did it for you? "Waffely, changing, overly verbal explanation"? Here are all three of my posts before you voted me:

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 615#p90615
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 617#p90617
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 630#p90630

I didn't waffle. I didn't change. It wasn't overly verbal. I said that there were plenty of ways I could have survived. Why is my death any more suspicious than anyone else who survived a night kill? (I know why, but I want to hear you say it) Plus, nice job using my survival against me anyway. Now I'd love to hear why you don't suspect BR or Elo....

Then there is the fact that you and keys were high up in my own case, The Case Of The Role-Blocked Ruffian. Makes it that much easier for me to say, "Let's lynch this guy. Maybe I'm right. That would be awesome!"

You're what? I have no idea what you're talking about. keys, you know anything about this?

[Your worrying that the lynch was going to end early was the icing on the cake, it's like, this dude is saying "please don't vote me, I think they're gonna end it early on me, help!", and I was like, "Not today, dude. Today I do what you don't want, because you upset me. Stop this silly lynch talk, Chicken Little."

.... so that's my most honest and exacting explanation of why it is that my vote is still sitting on your ass, Chris. I assure you that it is as perfect an explanation as I can recollect from this morning. You know how it is.

I'm going to leave that vote right where it is for now. Feel free to keep reacting in whatever way you think is sound.

My worrying about a lynch ending early was only added after I saw MP vote me, and I had no time to defend against it. And, why vote so early anyway? But then when I voted him back, and you rushed to his rescue... well... that was just an awesome unintended side effect.

Thanks for that!

Really, what I see in your explanation is a quickly cooked up case to vote someone early to hide a ulterior motivated vote.


LINKI @ SVS: See, now that's something I can see someone accusing me of. I'm not The Master of course, but I can see how you can think so. I didn't vote for MM. I went for Epig without much reason other than I was tired of hearing about the lie detector shit, and he was acting differently enough for me to vote him just to end it. It wasn't a great reason, but I also didn't care who was lynched between the two of them.

Looking back at who The Master targeted, I don't have much to say in defense, since I can't say I did much in regards to them. The Master targeted Rico, and I was for a Rico lynch... so there's not much else there. The problem with being accused of being the indy role is it's tough to defend against. Especially when SVS puts it the way she did.

But I'm not The Master.








*EDIT* Quote fail fix

[S~V~S]

I am not a robot.

Like, how many times do I have to say it?

That isn't the point. The point was your resistance previously, you were acting really evasive, and trying to bull your way through it by saying you did something you had not done. It had to be made into a huge production before you would comply. Personally, i still think it was uncheckable since zeek kinda forced it (and I definitely did), and most hosts don't allow forced LDs.

And rolling eyes at people won't change that

[Chris]

I really hate to add this, but I will. The role for The Master says that he will survive the first three attempts on his life. That's not just NKs. That's lynches too. Keep that in mind when you're looking for him.

Me? I'll die if you lynch me. But if you really think I'm The Master, then I won't die if lynched... so why try? Let's kill a baddie!

[Chris]

The real reason I voted for you early was that you potentially outed Amy Pond after I specifically responded to your first insane attempt, warning you against it. Don't do that, that's classic unCivvielike behaviour. Shame on you, so blatant, just out in public like that.

But I didn't potentially out Amy Pond. As keys said, if I did anything, it was the first step of a long process that would be required to figure that out. And who even knows if Amy Pond is even alive. I think that is your convenient excuse to keep people from figuring out that you have extra votes to play with. And the last lynch being a tie was exactly what you DIDN'T want. Which is why you didn't want anyone asking questions about ties.

[It directly followed what looks like a really waffley, changing, overly verbal explanation of why you survived, which I agree was supicious. Why jump around like that if you're not hiding something? I dunno, but that factor added weight to the idea you were the guy for me, easy enough to go with due to my elevated anger toward you from the Amy Pond Incident.[\quote]

So the fact that I survived, and didn't come right into the thread and out my role was what really did it for you? "Waffely, changing, overly verbal explanation"? Here are all three of my posts before you voted me:

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 615#p90615
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 617#p90617
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 630#p90630

I didn't waffle. I didn't change. It wasn't overly verbal. I said that there were plenty of ways I could have survived. Why is my death any more suspicious than anyone else who survived a night kill? (I know why, but I want to hear you say it) Plus, nice job using my survival against me anyway. Now I'd love to hear why you don't suspect BR or Elo....

Then there is the fact that you and keys were high up in my own case, The Case Of The Role-Blocked Ruffian. Makes it that much easier for me to say, "Let's lynch this guy. Maybe I'm right. That would be awesome!"

You're what? I have no idea what you're talking about. keys, you know anything about this?

[Your worrying that the lynch was going to end early was the icing on the cake, it's like, this dude is saying "please don't vote me, I think they're gonna end it early on me, help!", and I was like, "Not today, dude. Today I do what you don't want, because you upset me. Stop this silly lynch talk, Chicken Little."

.... so that's my most honest and exacting explanation of why it is that my vote is still sitting on your ass, Chris. I assure you that it is as perfect an explanation as I can recollect from this morning. You know how it is.

I'm going to leave that vote right where it is for now. Feel free to keep reacting in whatever way you think is sound.

My worrying about a lynch ending early was only added after I saw MP vote me, and I had no time to defend against it. And, why vote so early anyway? But then when I voted him back, and you rushed to his rescue... well... that was just an awesome unintended side effect.

Thanks for that!

Really, what I see in your explanation is a quickly cooked up case to vote someone early to hide a ulterior motivated vote.


LINKI @ SVS: See, now that's something I can see someone accusing me of. I'm not The Master of course, but I can see how you can think so. I didn't vote for MM. I went for Epig without much reason other than I was tired of hearing about the lie detector shit, and he was acting differently enough for me to vote him just to end it. It wasn't a great reason, but I also didn't care who was lynched between the two of them.

Looking back at who The Master targeted, I don't have much to say in defense, since I can't say I did much in regards to them. The Master targeted Rico, and I was for a Rico lynch... so there's not much else there. The problem with being accused of being the indy role is it's tough to defend against. Especially when SVS puts it the way she did.

But I'm not The Master.








*EDIT* Quote fail fix

I don't know how these are breaking, I know I'm doing them right.

If a mod wants to fix the earlier one, you can delete this one and the fucked up fix...

I'M SORRY FOR FUCKING THE QUOTES UP!

[Long Con]

Ok, that's cool, Chris, you don't have to believe me. My explanation of my process of voting you is the way it happened, and there was no ulterior motive, because I have no need for ulterior motives.

[keys56000000000]

LC, suppose everything Chris says is true, who do we look at next?

[Black Rock]

Interesting. So I'm pretty sure LC and MP are both civvies, so I'm not liking Chris' lynch list atm.

I'm not sure who I am going to vote yet but there are at least four people I won't be voting for.

[Chris]

BR, why do you suppose I'm getting more suspicion than you or Elo got? Even MP, who survived a NK, suspects me because I survived a NK. How much sense does that make?

[Hedgeowl]

I really hate to add this, but I will. The role for The Master says that he will survive the first three attempts on his life. That's not just NKs. That's lynches too. Keep that in mind when you're looking for him.

Me? I'll die if you lynch me. But if you really think I'm The Master, then I won't die if lynched... so why try? Let's kill a baddie!

[Hedgeowl]

BR, why do you suppose I'm getting more suspicion than you or Elo got? Even MP, who survived a NK, suspects me because I survived a NK. How much sense does that make?

Sorry I am still recovering from your latest defense, "dont lynch me because i will die, but if i am the Master why bother?"

I just finished reading through some loooong posts, but to start its not that you survived an NK, its that you survived 2 NKs. Big difference. If you had just survived a strax kill no biggie, you'd probably be civ, but the cybers tried to kill you on the same night? They have a live role checker on their team and if they learned you were the master, they would know just leading your lynch wouldnt be enough. I dont think the argument you are the Cyber controller works, because um, why would you target yourself, but the Master is a real possibility. I am willing to consider civ options, but its a really hard position to defend from i know.

[Chris]

I agree it's easy for me to look like The Master... but I can't defend against it really.

All I can say is, I'm not. There's a civvie reason why I lived... twice really.

[Hedgeowl]

I'm not sure. I was thinking that the pole and being a lot earlier than everybody thought they'd be screwed them up. There's a lot of boat changing and I don't think they ever intended for it to be tied since that exposes too much information. And we all know that information in a mafia game is a civvies best friend.

I was thinking that the poll ending a lot earlier than everybody thought it would be, screwed them up. There's been a lot of vote changing, and I don't think they ever intended for it to be tied since that exposes too much information. And we all know that information in a mafia game is a civvie's best friend.

I think what may have happened is that LC voted on the poll for Epig, but put his extra vote/s on MM. That's why he was so concerned about any info getting out about the vote being tied.

And, I don't have any real evidence that there can or will be an early end to the day, but when 2 of the 4 people who can kill in the game target you in one night, you tend to worry for your life. But I did find it interesting that as soon as I put the vote on MP, LC was right there to put another vote on me. And his post, he seems so sure of who I am. So sure, in fact, he's got to vote me nearly 36 hours ahead of time.

But what I really think happened is,m I'm not sure if they really think I'm The Master or not, but they know for damn sure I'm not a Cyberman. So there's no way I survived the dual NK kill attempts by being The Cyber Controller. So they're not sure who I am, but I could be The Master. But in case that's too easy to defend, they threw out that I could also be The Cyber Controller, and now there's ABSOLUTELY no reason to wait to vote for me.

But I feel that they may have believed me about the vote ending early, and that would mean that I'd be in a tie with MP, leaving it to a coin flip. That's too much of a chance for MP. And what I was Amy Pond? Well, shit, they'd need more than just another vote. So in comes LC, with his extra vote/s, making sure that even if I was Amy Pond, if the day ended early, I'd still have more votes.

And why would they be concerned that I'm Amy Pond? Because I've been asking about the votes, since if I was Amy Pond, and Epig wasn't lynched, then I'd be wondering why, wouldn't I?

So what happens? A sudden rush of people who are convinced that I'm either The Master or The Cyber Controller. And then suddenly, no one is talking about MP or Epig anymore.

My thoughts on who the Cybermen are?

The Cyber Controller - MP
The Cyberman Head - LC
Cyberman 1 & 2 - Epig and either Hedgie or Dom.



To answer the other questions... first thing I need to know... Am I being accused of being The Master or THe Cyber Controller? Because I need to know which one to defend against.

But I would love to add that it's nice how I survive a NK, and suddenly I must be bad. Why can't I be Sarah or Jack? If I was Sarah, maybe by NK attempts failed because of the 50%. Maybe if I was Jack, the Cyberman kill failed, and the Strax kill was missed because I'm civvie? Strax's kill could have missed because I'm a civvie Sarah as well! Then there are secrets that we still don't know about, and secret roles apparently as well!

I wasn't clear on my survival for a few reason Juliets. First, I don't want to role hint, much less out my own role. Second, if other players with killing powers think for a second that I am The Cyber Controller, they'd be less inclined to target me. So I didn't mind the vagueness.

I am not a baddie. The Cybermen tried to kill me because I'm getting too close. I survived because of my role. Strax tried to kill me because he's either a nub, or his target got redirected. I survived because I am a civ.

Just keep this in mind. If I somehow do get lynched, just go back and look at how the rush to judgement came, and look at who did it. They want me dead, and the NKs failed. They know I can't survive a lynch, and they're trying to strike while the iron is hot.

I will show up civvie if lynched. I can only hope you all will know what to do afterward.

I have nothing to hide, ask me any questions you want.

Ok, questions. The cybers tried to kill you because you are getting too close? Close to what? Do you mean because you voted Epi? Who you've now said you only sorted suspected, kinda, but not really. Why is it "too easy to defend" being suspected of the master? I dont think it makes sense for you to be cyber though.

You list suspects for cybers as MP, LC, Epi, Dom, and me. 1 of 5 i know isnt cyber, 3 of 5 i am fairly sure arent cyber, and the the last two i really dont know. However of the 5 all of us have questioned you about your survival, pushing exposing Amy as a civ, even after warning, and two voted for you, so is this where the sudden list comes from? It feels like a team "no u" just a bit.

Your posting is screaming desparate right niw, which i get, but it doesnt make me feel better.

[Chris]

I'm feel I'm getting close to exposing them. There hasn't been any Cybermen killed, as far as we know. It's been all Daleks. I think that my constant pressure on MP as a Cyberman has finally pushed him to the point to try to kill me. Of course I'm not 100%, but I think I can be right.

And the reason I named you is a bit no u-ish, but only because you've barely been around, then suddenly you appear saying that you think I'm The Master. I'm not entirely certain about you. In actuality, the only ones I feel somewhat sure about are MP, LC, and then Epig.

And also, just because I think someone is bad, if they aren't, it doesn't make me bad. I've suspected MP basically since I got in the game. So that's no surprise. LC has been feeling a touch off, so I wanted to look into it further.

But "the warning"? Since when do I have to heed anyone's "warning" in this game? What, LC "warns" me that I shouldn't ask about the tie, and because I do, I'm a baddie? Am I not supposed to look into Cybermen hidden added votes? How does that make sense?

And tell me, give me some maths... how much "danger" did I put Amy Pond in? I narrowed it down to one of 8 people? If she's even still alive? People are acting as if I named her for God's sake...

[Long Con]

It feels like a team "no u" just a bit.

Your posting is screaming desperate right now, which I get, but it doesn't make me feel better.

I thought the 'no u' was so blatant that I didn't even mention it.

[Long Con]

But "the warning"? Since when do I have to heed anyone's "warning" in this game? What, LC "warns" me that I shouldn't ask about the tie, and because I do, I'm a baddie? Am I not supposed to look into Cybermen hidden added votes? How does that make sense?

It is your choice and yours alone whether or not you heed the warning of Long Con. The consequences of ignoring such a warning will also be the sole domain of Long Con, so don't go whining to the rest of the thread about it.

How about these "maths", Chris? You know who knows for sure if it was Amy Pond that affected the Epig vote? The Cybermen. Because they are the ones with the Head who has vote manipulation. So that baddie team, more than anyone, benefits from the information you requested. Sure, the rest of us might think there may be Cyber-manipulation, but not them!

[Chris]

Like I was saying, I don't think any of the Cybermen are dead. And if we assume that the Cyberman Head has found his body, that means he's got likely 3 extra votes.

Think how dangerous that is for the Civvies endgame.

LINKI @ LC: How does the vote not being a tie being confirmed help the baddies? If the Cybermen have 3 extra votes to play with, Amy Pond's vote means shit in that tie vote... So how does it help the Cybermen? Maybe I'm just slow, and I need you to spell it out for me...

[Long Con]

Well, there's not knowing if the lynch was a tie, which means the Cyber baddie team does not know if Amy Pond's vote affected the lynch.

And then there's confirmation for the Cyber baddie team that Amy Pond affected, giving them information on the identity of a Civvie whose power, by your own recent statement, is increasingly powerful as endgame approaches.

In my opinion, it is better for the Civvies that Amy Pond remains more covert, and more likely to survive until that late game where her vote can make a big difference.

Asking for the results of the lynch to be revealed opened the door to the possibility of a greater baddie advantage. You created a situation where the baddies could win, where they would have lost. Twist it and stretch it any way you like, that's what you did, it is a fact.

[keys56000000000]

Just playing devil's advocate here; It seems just as likely that Chris opened the door to a situaton where the civvies win where they might have lost. Things are not hopeless just yet. We just have to be lucky.

[Chris]

I gotta say LC< this is the best non-post post I've ever seen you make. You must be on a team with MP, cuz it reeks of him.

Well, there's not knowing if the lynch was a tie, which means the Cyber baddie team does not know if Amy Pond's vote affected the lynch.

I surmise that the Cybermen have likely 3 extra votes. Therefore, if the Cybermen wanted MM dead (which I'm pretty sure they did), they added their votes to him. That effectively nullifies any info they may have gained about Amy Pond, if there was any to be gained in the first place.

And then there's confirmation for the Cyber baddie team that Amy Pond affected, giving them information on the identity of a Civvie whose power, by your own recent statement, is increasingly powerful as endgame approaches.

Just a rehash of what you just said above. You don't even know if Amy Pond is alive... and even if she is, and the Cyebrmen can TELL if she voted in MM's group, and it was her vote that made him get lynched, at best, they'd have it narrowed down to maybe 5 different player, since you'd exclude them. But like I said before, their own added votes would cloud Amy's actions.

In my opinion, it is better for the Civvies that Amy Pond remains more covert, and more likely to survive until that late game where her vote can make a big difference.

You're just stating you're "opinion", which may or may not be correct, but your "opinion" helps you justify your vote for me, and your attempt to get my lynched.

Asking for the results of the lynch to be revealed opened the door to the possibility of a greater baddie advantage. You created a situation where the baddies could win, where they would have lost. Twist it and stretch it any way you like, that's what you did, it is a fact.

I created a situation where the baddies can win? By asking if a lynch was tied? Seriously? How much are you trying to trump this up?

You're just trying to make something seem super critical, that really isn't. It really makes me think I'm right all that much more.

keys, I know you're thinking about an LC lynch. I can get behind that, obviously. But why not an MP lynch? How would you feel about MP if we did get LC lynched, and he was the Cyberman Head? How do you feel about Epig? Do you think they saved him with the MM lynch?

[Chris]

The argument isn't going to change. I'm not going to allow those guys to ramp me up to the point where I sound maniacal and desperate.

If anyone has any other questions for me, ask away.

If not, and you guy do lynch me, just remember who I named, and how this shit went down.

[Long Con]

Just playing devil's advocate here; It seems just as likely that Chris opened the door to a situaton where the civvies win where they might have lost. Things are not hopeless just yet. We just have to be lucky.

Maybe, but we require a lot more luck to benefit. I guess we should just put the MM voters from that lynch into a list and hope they're the Cyber Head and not Amy Pond, if we even want to have a chance at a positive outcome from Chris' poorly-thought-out request.

Whereas the Cybers have either no advantage, indicating that they altered the vote and know it, or they have some advantage, indicating they did not alter the vote and now have Amy Pond narrowed down.

I'm not going to just say "Well, I hope that we lucked out and revealing that info will turn out good for the Civvies" when there's a greater chance of the baddies benefiting.

But I guess you and Chris should start analyzing the MM voters and cross your fingers that you got lucky. Is that what Chris is doing? I voted for Epig, not MM. So coming after me isn't in line with Chris' master plan of revealing the lynch outcome. If he's looking for the Cyber Head, then it ain't me.

[Long Con]

The argument isn't going to change. I'm not going to allow those guys to ramp me up to the point where I sound maniacal and desperate.

If anyone has any other questions for me, ask away.

If not, and you guy do lynch me, just remember who I named, and how this shit went down.

I'm not ramping anything up. You asked me to explain why it was a mistake to reveal the lynch info, and so I explained as completely as possible why. I took it from the pont of the revealed info to a possible way it could negatively affect the game, because you seemed to be having trouble understanding exactly why it was the wrong move.

It's not "trumped up"... it's just that, if I didn't explain an eventuality where it would result in a baddie advantage, then I don't think I would have done a complete job of explaining the situation to you. Just trying to help.

[Marmot]

Ummmm. Rez me please.

[Long Con]

If you manage to find your body (a randomly determined event) at some point in the game, you gain an extra amount of votes for the next lynch determined by how many members of your team are still alive.

Ok, so maybe the extra votes can go where the Cyber Head didn't publicly vote. So I'm no more exonerated from being the Head than anyone else, and looking at the MM voters doesn't mean nearly as much. Why are you so sure the Cyber Head has even found its body? It's randomly determined. I picture something like one player in the game has the Body, and the Head searches one per night for it. Or some variation on that sort of 'Searchy' role.

Wait, so if the Cyber Head doesn't have to vote where the extra votes are, then Chris please explain to me how the Civvies can have an advantage from revealing the lynch info? How do we catch the baddie in that "hope we got lucky devil's advocate" thing keys posted?

[Dom]

I'm not sure. I was thinking that the pole and being a lot earlier than everybody thought they'd be screwed them up. There's a lot of boat changing and I don't think they ever intended for it to be tied since that exposes too much information. And we all know that information in a mafia game is a civvies best friend.

I was thinking that the poll ending a lot earlier than everybody thought it would be, screwed them up. There's been a lot of vote changing, and I don't think they ever intended for it to be tied since that exposes too much information. And we all know that information in a mafia game is a civvie's best friend.

I think what may have happened is that LC voted on the poll for Epig, but put his extra vote/s on MM. That's why he was so concerned about any info getting out about the vote being tied.

And, I don't have any real evidence that there can or will be an early end to the day, but when 2 of the 4 people who can kill in the game target you in one night, you tend to worry for your life. But I did find it interesting that as soon as I put the vote on MP, LC was right there to put another vote on me. And his post, he seems so sure of who I am. So sure, in fact, he's got to vote me nearly 36 hours ahead of time.

But what I really think happened is,m I'm not sure if they really think I'm The Master or not, but they know for damn sure I'm not a Cyberman. So there's no way I survived the dual NK kill attempts by being The Cyber Controller. So they're not sure who I am, but I could be The Master. But in case that's too easy to defend, they threw out that I could also be The Cyber Controller, and now there's ABSOLUTELY no reason to wait to vote for me.

But I feel that they may have believed me about the vote ending early, and that would mean that I'd be in a tie with MP, leaving it to a coin flip. That's too much of a chance for MP. And what I was Amy Pond? Well, shit, they'd need more than just another vote. So in comes LC, with his extra vote/s, making sure that even if I was Amy Pond, if the day ended early, I'd still have more votes.

And why would they be concerned that I'm Amy Pond? Because I've been asking about the votes, since if I was Amy Pond, and Epig wasn't lynched, then I'd be wondering why, wouldn't I?

So what happens? A sudden rush of people who are convinced that I'm either The Master or The Cyber Controller. And then suddenly, no one is talking about MP or Epig anymore.

My thoughts on who the Cybermen are?

The Cyber Controller - MP
The Cyberman Head - LC
Cyberman 1 & 2 - Epig and either Hedgie or Dom.



To answer the other questions... first thing I need to know... Am I being accused of being The Master or THe Cyber Controller? Because I need to know which one to defend against.

But I would love to add that it's nice how I survive a NK, and suddenly I must be bad. Why can't I be Sarah or Jack? If I was Sarah, maybe by NK attempts failed because of the 50%. Maybe if I was Jack, the Cyberman kill failed, and the Strax kill was missed because I'm civvie? Strax's kill could have missed because I'm a civvie Sarah as well! Then there are secrets that we still don't know about, and secret roles apparently as well!

I wasn't clear on my survival for a few reason Juliets. First, I don't want to role hint, much less out my own role. Second, if other players with killing powers think for a second that I am The Cyber Controller, they'd be less inclined to target me. So I didn't mind the vagueness.

I am not a baddie. The Cybermen tried to kill me because I'm getting too close. I survived because of my role. Strax tried to kill me because he's either a nub, or his target got redirected. I survived because I am a civ.

Just keep this in mind. If I somehow do get lynched, just go back and look at how the rush to judgement came, and look at who did it. They want me dead, and the NKs failed. They know I can't survive a lynch, and they're trying to strike while the iron is hot.

I will show up civvie if lynched. I can only hope you all will know what to do afterward.

I have nothing to hide, ask me any questions you want.

Are you serious
This is the biggest no u
wtf

So, for all the chance that I can be Th Cyber Controller, there's even more chance that I can be Sarah or Jack.

Obviously I know which one I am...

"Even more"?
Why?
Is this rhetoric or are you serious?

I really hate to add this, but I will. The role for The Master says that he will survive the first three attempts on his life. That's not just NKs. That's lynches too. Keep that in mind when you're looking for him.

Me? I'll die if you lynch me. But if you really think I'm The Master, then I won't die if lynched... so why try? Let's kill a baddie!

Are you serious?

BR, why do you suppose I'm getting more suspicion than you or Elo got? Even MP, who survived a NK, suspects me because I survived a NK. How much sense does that make?

You survived... two...

The argument isn't going to change. I'm not going to allow those guys to ramp me up to the point where I sound maniacal and desperate.

If anyone has any other questions for me, ask away.

If not, and you guy do lynch me, just remember who I named, and how this shit went down.

No one is making you sound maniacal or desperate
You're doing a great job of that yourself.

[Long Con]

BR, why do you suppose I'm getting more suspicion than you or Elo got? Even MP, who survived a NK, suspects me because I survived a NK. How much sense does that make?

Oh yeah, and BR clearly survived because her killer was roleblocked. I have no idea about Elohcin. Maybe she's the Cyber Controller. And MP I believe is Civvie, for the most part.

[birdwithteeth11]

If you manage to find your body (a randomly determined event) at some point in the game, you gain an extra amount of votes for the next lynch determined by how many members of your team are still alive.

Ok, so maybe the extra votes can go where the Cyber Head didn't publicly vote. So I'm no more exonerated from being the Head than anyone else, and looking at the MM voters doesn't mean nearly as much. Why are you so sure the Cyber Head has even found its body? It's randomly determined. I picture something like one player in the game has the Body, and the Head searches one per night for it. Or some variation on that sort of 'Searchy' role.

Wait, so if the Cyber Head doesn't have to vote where the extra votes are, then Chris please explain to me how the Civvies can have an advantage from revealing the lynch info? How do we catch the baddie in that "hope we got lucky devil's advocate" thing keys posted?

The Cyber Head cannot privately change any or all of his extra votes. All of his votes are based on whoever he publicly votes for in the lynch poll.

[Long Con]

That's very good to know, Mr Host, thank you.

Also, I just realized that the Cyber Head only gets extra votes in the next lynch. So to catch the Cyber Head altering the MetalMarsh lynch, they would have had to randomly have found the Body in the night immediately preceding the lynch. Lordy.

[DFaraday]

BR, why do you suppose I'm getting more suspicion than you or Elo got? Even MP, who survived a NK, suspects me because I survived a NK. How much sense does that make?

Sorry I am still recovering from your latest defense, "dont lynch me because i will die, but if i am the Master why bother?"

I just finished reading through some loooong posts, but to start its not that you survived an NK, its that you survived 2 NKs. Big difference. If you had just survived a strax kill no biggie, you'd probably be civ, but the cybers tried to kill you on the same night? They have a live role checker on their team and if they learned you were the master, they would know just leading your lynch wouldnt be enough. I dont think the argument you are the Cyber controller works, because um, why would you target yourself, but the Master is a real possibility. I am willing to consider civ options, but its a really hard position to defend from i know.

In response to the bolded, it would not be unheard of for a team to "target" a member of their team, knowing full well that that person will survive, so I wouldn't write off Chris as a Cyberman just yet.

Speaking of, I want to point out that Sarah Jane's role says she can survive "alien" attacks. The Cybermen are not aliens, so I wonder whether Sarah can survive being targeted by them. If not, that just makes Chris look even shadier.

[Dom]

BR, why do you suppose I'm getting more suspicion than you or Elo got? Even MP, who survived a NK, suspects me because I survived a NK. How much sense does that make?

Sorry I am still recovering from your latest defense, "dont lynch me because i will die, but if i am the Master why bother?"

I just finished reading through some loooong posts, but to start its not that you survived an NK, its that you survived 2 NKs. Big difference. If you had just survived a strax kill no biggie, you'd probably be civ, but the cybers tried to kill you on the same night? They have a live role checker on their team and if they learned you were the master, they would know just leading your lynch wouldnt be enough. I dont think the argument you are the Cyber controller works, because um, why would you target yourself, but the Master is a real possibility. I am willing to consider civ options, but its a really hard position to defend from i know.

In response to the bolded, it would not be unheard of for a team to "target" a member of their team, knowing full well that that person will survive, so I wouldn't write off Chris as a Cyberman just yet.

Speaking of, I want to point out that Sarah Jane's role says she can survive "alien" attacks. The Cybermen are not aliens, so I wonder whether Sarah can survive being targeted by them. If not, that just makes Chris look even shadier.

DF, were you on my team in supernatural, I can't remember.

[DFaraday]

BR, why do you suppose I'm getting more suspicion than you or Elo got? Even MP, who survived a NK, suspects me because I survived a NK. How much sense does that make?

Sorry I am still recovering from your latest defense, "dont lynch me because i will die, but if i am the Master why bother?"

I just finished reading through some loooong posts, but to start its not that you survived an NK, its that you survived 2 NKs. Big difference. If you had just survived a strax kill no biggie, you'd probably be civ, but the cybers tried to kill you on the same night? They have a live role checker on their team and if they learned you were the master, they would know just leading your lynch wouldnt be enough. I dont think the argument you are the Cyber controller works, because um, why would you target yourself, but the Master is a real possibility. I am willing to consider civ options, but its a really hard position to defend from i know.

In response to the bolded, it would not be unheard of for a team to "target" a member of their team, knowing full well that that person will survive, so I wouldn't write off Chris as a Cyberman just yet.

Speaking of, I want to point out that Sarah Jane's role says she can survive "alien" attacks. The Cybermen are not aliens, so I wonder whether Sarah can survive being targeted by them. If not, that just makes Chris look even shadier.

DF, were you on my team in supernatural, I can't remember.

I wasn't in Supernatural, although it sounds like something I should have been in.

[Chris]

Dom, ARE YOU SERIOUS?!?

[Chris]

BWTs clarification post changes the way I was looking at things.

I'll reiterate, just because I suspect someone, even if that someone is a civvie, it doesn't mean I'm bad. I'm trying to make sense of things. I don't think my asking about the tie was NOT the death knell of the civvies, as LC would have you believe.

So far, I'm a baddie because I survived one night that had two NKs. All I can say is I survived Strax's kill because I'm a civ (really! go back and look, his kill only failed one other time, for Elo). I could see if Strax's kill had failed 3 other times, but it didn't. That failed kill could look ominous, or can be as simple as it looks. Strax's first three NK attempts will fail. That's not that difficult a conclusion to come to. The Cybermen kill failed because I had a kill protection. That's it. That's how I mysteriously survived those 2 NKs.

I asked about the lynch, whether or not it was a tie. THIS IS NOT THE SAME AS ME OUTTING A ROLE. Stop acting like it is.

I didn't vote MM. That can make me look like The Master. But I'm not. SVS can be right about rey quitting regarldless of the role, but I know I wouldn't quit with that role. Most people wouldn't quit with that role. It's rare to get a role like that, and I believe anyone who enjoys mafia would relish a chance to play a role like that. Just think about it... there was no lull in the actions of The Master. Think about how I'm playing, those of you who know my playstyle. Do you really think I'm playing the Indy role? I had the indy role in 6 Feet Under... was I playing like this?

If you lynch me, I'll die. I'll flip civ. And I'll be ok with that, since I know that much information will come from my lynch and aid the civs.

But I don't wanna die.

[Chris]

*EBWOP Strax's first three kill attempts on civs will fail.

[Dom]

I wasn't in Supernatural, although it sounds like something I should have been in.

I targeted myself for a kill in that game. It was solely because I Lucifer, we had used Death's power to stop any death from happening for 3 (real life) days. No one would die any way. So, I targeted myself with the kill. I was lynched anyway (I screwed up big time in that game lol).


My point is the ONLY reason why we did it is because NO ONE would die anyway.
This is not the case, to my knowledge, in this game. So, I don't think the Cybermen would waste a kill like that. It seems foolish.

Dom, ARE YOU SERIOUS?!?

Are you serious?

You have created a scenario in your head where 1) everyone who suspects you is bad 2) you literally filled in roles based on who suspected you, you had no mention of me until you just filled in a role because I DON'T JUST UNILATERALLY TRUST YOU and 3) you are requiring MP to attempt to kill himself.

That's desperate.

I'm calling a spade a spade, buddy.

I didn't vote MM. That can make me look like The Master. But I'm not. SVS can be right about rey quitting regarldless of the role, but I know I wouldn't quit with that role. Most people wouldn't quit with that role. It's rare to get a role like that, and I believe anyone who enjoys mafia would relish a chance to play a role like that. Just think about it... there was no lull in the actions of The Master. Think about how I'm playing, those of you who know my playstyle. Do you really think I'm playing the Indy role? I had the indy role in 6 Feet Under... was I playing like this?

In SFU, I suspected you and you immediately suspected me back and created a whole lot of drama around the two of us. You figured out I was the civvie protector and killed me. This doesn't sound all that different than what is happening now. I suspected you, you no u me and create a whole drama trying to find a world where I am bad. I am not. You threw me in that role simply because I suspect you, no other reason.

[Dom]

I voted.

[Chris]

I'm not asking for your trust. I wasn't really eyeballing you before, but I was keeping an eye on you, just because it's healthy to keep an eye on you in mafia.

But then you came in and jumped right on the case. I felt that it was an obvious easy set up to get me lynched, and I thought people would see that. Hence, when anyone came in and jumped right on it, I just thought that they were there to add fuel to the fire. Obviously not everyone who suspects me is bad, but you and LC, and to a smaller extent, Hedgie, fit in a group that I have in my mind. Yes, i'm trying to fill holes with pegs. I know I won't get it right all the time. But I'm not going to lie. Both you and LC had my attention with your playstyle, and the events the morning after I survived the NK attempts just seeming like baddie activity to me.

But my main suspects are MP, LC & Epig. If anyone wants to vote for them, I'm your boy. If you all want to vote for me, I can't stop it at this point. But you'll be lynching a civvie.

If Strax's kill didn't fail because I'm a civvie, then the ONLY roles I can be are The Master or The Cyber Controller. I'm neither of those roles. BUT, if I did survive Strax's NK attempt because I'm a civvie, then you'll be lynching a civ. I know I keep saying it, but really, it's the only thing I can hang my hat on as proof that I'm a civ. Think about it for a while. See how I act in the thread, and how I vote. I'm sure no one is going to forget about it. We were all set to lynch Epig, let's do that. If you still think that I'm bad after that, then lynch me.

I just think that information, lots of it, can be gained through the lynch of Epig. Much more than mine. If I'm lynched, and I'm not lying, and I'm a civ, you lose a civ role, and you gain nothing. I didn't really defend anyone, I didn't vary my suspects much. MP and Epig, with a touch of Roxy. If I'm a baddie, you won't get much in connectables.

If I am The Master, like some of you think, he's Indy. He doesn't have teammates. There are no connections to be found. (Again, I'm not The Master, but if I have to defend it...) And, like I pointed out before... if he survives the first three attempts on his life, there were two last night, I'd still have one more save.

But if we lynch Epig, there are loads of connections. If he turns out to be a Cyber man, that could be the start of tracking down the second baddie team. Maybe not.. I'm not that positive. But I can tell you that if you lynch me, you get NO connections.

Believe me, don't believe me. You'll see at some point, sooner or later, that I'm not lying.

[Chris]

Also Dom, in SFU, I was the serial killer. You were the protector. You kinda very much so stood in my way of winning the game.

I don't think I need to explain that to you Dom. It's pretty basic.

Killer wants protector dead.

Jus' sayin'.

[Chris]

So I guess I'm going to defend against being The Master then?

Ok. This isn't going to be easy, but I'm not one to back down. It'll be short, I promise.



So, these are the only two posts by reywaS for the entire game. Both were on day 0. The first one was right after the game started, and the second one is the next physical day. I tried to look for context around it, and all there really was was MR's joke. I don't think rey's "DERP" post was in relation to that joke. I think it was more like, "I'm not into the game, and I'm derpin' out". I don't know... I'm just guessing since I'm not reywaS.

hello

For reference, here are MRs posts. He was NKed by The Master on night one. I hadn't replaced in until night two.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/search ... 5&sr=posts

To summarize, MR posted some amount of early trust of MP. (Something that caught my eye when I replaced in TBH) He was sorta wishy washy about were to put his support for the day one lynch. Then The Master killed him.

So look at that timeline together. rey wasn't into the game, didn't post anything at all. You think he'd still care enough to PM in a kill? Let's look at it like SVS says. rey was disinterested, and not into the game. No one knows that better than me. I'm in IRC with him every day. He's barely around. So, if he got this awesome role, but was disinterested enough to not play it, but he still sends in a NK? I replace in the next day. You have to figure that by the time I replace in, he's asked to be replaced well before that. Look at his posts, or lack thereof. He's checked out for this game on day ZERO. If he asked to be replaced back then, as The Master, not only would that be unheard of, but I'd like to think that the hosts would try much harder to get the replacement player in here to make the kill, as opposed to a player who's not playing, and not invested, making that kill, and then having the replacement player come in.

I replaced in casually, the way I did, because I don't have that cool ass role.


tl;dr If I was The Master, I would have been subbed in sooner than when I was.

[Chris]

Did rey vote in the day one lynch?

[Chris]

Honestly, if 15 out of 31 players missed the D1 vote and I was hosting, I'd be half tempted to just modkill them all. That's insane.

DF and MR both for themselves, Roxy randomized, a few drive-bys. Yeah not a great round for votes.

As far as I can tell the following players didn't vote:

BR
Boogs
splints
Gotrees
Hedge
keys
LC
Made
MM
rey
Snow Dog

So that's 11, not 15. MM and Hedge just hardly missed it, Gotrees hasn't been around at all, can't remember seeing rey either? Splints and Keys at least we know are busy. Surprised Made didn't vote, really, he's been talking a fair bit.

linki: RIP juliets. Honestly thought we'd get a Day 1 baddie this time.

So wait, you're telling me that rey didn't post, didn't vote, but sent in a kill? And then the VERY next day, I replaced in to the INDY KILLER ROLE?


No, I did not.