Highway Heist (MAFIA WIN)

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Is this where we flash wagon c4

Apparently

Am I actually gonna vote Axe

Wilgy is like, so obviously town... Unless I'm wrong.

can't stand the fps claims

And I can't stand mechanical incompetence, yet here we fucking are

dizzy pushing everywhere he can showing he's actually content with whatever even foiling you and me

Be quiet.

don't be rude...

dizzy pushing everywhere he can showing he's actually content with whatever even foiling you and me

Be quiet.

Discouraging wagons

[VOTE: NotAnAxehole] aubergine

This is [most of] the commentary from c4 and NAA at EOD2 starting immediately after a c4 wagon appeared (votes from Nanook, Wilgy, and I). I'm just going to look at it and let feelings develop.

[Hally]

Concern about Mac: if he's town I'd expect him to want my head on a pike right now

was thinking about this on the bus and i also think it’s a bit weird that mac entered today tinfoiling me instead of you

i think i’ve arguably been more villagery than you (though ofc i’m biased) and also less wrong so far (all your wolf reads have flipped v so far whereas my pet push NAA us still alive and seems like a very probable wolf) so i would think if mac was looking for a deep wolf he’d look at you instead of me

but i’m not sure he’s ever actually seen me wolf so it’s possible he doesn’t know i can’t post like this as a wolf

does he usually tend to read you primarily off results or off of how villagery he thinks you are?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

does he usually tend to read you primarily off results or off of how villagery he thinks you are?

I think he tries to do both, but if the results aren't happening the trust tends to erode or instantly vanish. He's been a bit agreeable too with some of my theories (e.g., MR/Dizzy late in Day 2 and c4/NAA now), so I am concerned about that uniquely Maccian in-your-face pocket. It also feels a little bit parainoid as I type it here, so my feelings are mixed.

[Hally]

mi’m pretty tired so i’m gonna look into c4/mac tomorrow

remind me if i forget

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Spoiler: show

I think that's everyone except Mac not countering.

yeah no cc here

[VOTE: NAA] aubergine

we’re not killing c4

I'll vote this if you don't want to vote Mac

why suddenly do you want to vote me again? was I away from the thread an adequate amount of time for you to feel comfortable pushing me?

everyone's a villager hally so let's start there and then find which villager is the mafia

there’s things wolves do not ever fake and c4 thinking dizzy was softing a red check on me at SoD and soft communicating about it itt is one of those things

Yeah, so there's probably scum between Mac and Jay. Get into it.

there really probably just is not unless Jay is playing his greatest wolf game

dizzy kinda spewing him and wilgy as the team imo

there’s things wolves do not ever fake and c4 thinking dizzy was softing a red check on me at SoD and soft communicating about it itt is one of those things

Yeah, I don't agree with this.

with respect, i don’t care what you agree with

no need to be like that... wilgy is just wilgen

dizzy kinda spewing him and wilgy as the team imo

[VOTE: Mac] aubergine

no no no. This is disgusting.

ahhh found it lol

I don't care tbh I've played enough mafia for one lifetime I'm proper over it hey.

dizzy pushing everywhere he can showing he's actually content with whatever even foiling you and me

Be quiet.

don't be rude...

y'all being way too haughty and rude for my tastes... dial it down ten notches

Don't vote either Wilgy or Nook

Vote me rather, I want out of this game anyway

Good luck figuring out the power Wolfes OR NAA lol

there's just no need for you to be mean

[VOTE: mac] aubergine

whatever trevor

i really don’t know what’s going on

both mafia fake claimed BP in a game they know there isn't one

There's scum between Mac/Jay and I'd even say Hally. That is scary. Likely Mac imo.

NAA is also probably just mafia btw.

Wilgy/Nanook will likely become clear.

there really probably just is not mafia between mac/Jay and hally no matter how much you say it

Mac's posts over the final 20 minutes of Day 2. Again just dumping them for ease of reference while I thonk over the game.

[Hally]

@MacDougall last day you seemed pretty paranoid of jay and were even calling him a wolf, and that was before his two pushes MR and dizzy both flipped v

i’m confused what made you start to trust him?

[Hally]

@MacDougall last day you seemed pretty paranoid of jay and were even calling him a wolf, and that was before his two pushes MR and dizzy both flipped v

i’m confused what made you start to trust him?

this is not to say you can’t trust him if you’re v, but i don’t really get your confidence in it

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Mac being wagoned looks kinda similar to Dizzy being wagoned, in terms of his reception of that and how he handled the thread in real-time.

c4 being wagoned elicited no meaningful response other than for c4 to acknowledge that it had occurred. NAA did not acknowledge his wagon.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Discouraging wagons

why were the wagons discouraging

[Hally]

for completeness sake, my other concern with jay aside from his NAA defense is how hard he was pushing on MR

i had MR as PoE but i didn’t think he was really wolfy, and i felt jay was kind of stretching for reasons to call MR a wolf and was maybe too confident in it

at one point i even thought jay was softing a red check on MR (hence my post and me asking jay how confident he was in it) because he was pretty much slamming MR and seemed like he was pre-flipping him wolf

in hindsight it isn’t really difficult to view that whole section of the thread as “power wolf jay ruthlessly dunks on LHF villager radishes”

but i’m not sure how much i believe it and outside of that i think jay’s play has generally been villagery

[Hally]

alright, gonna call it a night

cya tomorrow

[JaggedJimmyJay]

for completeness sake, my other concern with jay aside from his NAA defense is how hard he was pushing on MR

i had MR as PoE but i didn’t think he was really wolfy, and i felt jay was kind of stretching for reasons to call MR a wolf and was maybe too confident in it

at one point i even thought jay was softing a red check on MR (hence my post and me asking jay how confident he was in it) because he was pretty much slamming MR and seemed like he was pre-flipping him wolf

in hindsight it isn’t really difficult to view that whole section of the thread as “power wolf jay ruthlessly dunks on LHF villager radishes”

but i’m not sure how much i believe it and outside of that i think jay’s play has generally been villagery

Sure. I didn't feel like I was slamming him really, but I think I understand the perception. He was trying to defend himself, and I kept saying that it wasn't doing much for me and that I needed him to find mafia. It's not MR's fault, but there are certain forms of defense that I simply am not receptive to as a player (because I consider them to be essentially irrelevant to alignment and within most people's ranges). Indeed, sometimes the mere act of defense raises my suspicion depending upon the context or delivery, particularly when it becomes a significant proportion of someone's posts. That's just Mafia philosophy though, and clearly MR was town. Them's the breaks.

[MacDougall]

Concern about Mac: if he's town I'd expect him to want my head on a pike right now

This is a misplaced concern. I already had that dance at the start of day 2 and you rectified my concerns to a point where it would be unreasonable for me to act that way again and it's unreasonable for you to assume I'd be that irrational.

Your worldview aligns most to mine as of today. I think you are out of your known wolf range too honestly. I doubt you have it in you these days as mafia to replicate your wolf game to this degree.

If anything you should ponder your statement as I think it would make more sense for me as mafia to "want your head on a pike". By not pushing you I am doing nothing but wrapping the POE around myself more tightly.

[MacDougall]

NAA/mac also seems very possible from NAA’s side

NAA talks about the possibility of mac being a wolf and puts him in a dichotomy with nook but never really pushed mac until today

he seemed more interested in voting in his MR/dizzy dichotomy than his mac/nook dichotomy

I think today alone rules out NAA/Mac. Nanook believes it to a degree where he has me and NAA in a hard difference check apparently so speak to him on the possibility of me being with Axe.

Notwithstanding, I would have been tempted far too many times prior to to day to distance/bus Axe the way the gamestate developed. I have not treated him the way I would a teammate in a 9 player 7v2 wolf format.

[MacDougall]

Concern about Mac: if he's town I'd expect him to want my head on a pike right now

was thinking about this on the bus and i also think it’s a bit weird that mac entered today tinfoiling me instead of you

i think i’ve arguably been more villagery than you (though ofc i’m biased) and also less wrong so far (all your wolf reads have flipped v so far whereas my pet push NAA us still alive and seems like a very probable wolf) so i would think if mac was looking for a deep wolf he’d look at you instead of me

but i’m not sure he’s ever actually seen me wolf so it’s possible he doesn’t know i can’t post like this as a wolf

does he usually tend to read you primarily off results or off of how villagery he thinks you are?

I was tinfoiling neither of you to a significant degree. You overreacted to me just vocalising some innane tinfoil. I was tinfoiling Jay more than you at the start of the day but, and I shit you not, Jay called himself town five times and I just went "yup, I guess you are" and then my tinfoil went away. Then I started reading all of Jay's content as pure and have not had any cause to find issue with his play since because his solving is aligned with mine with the exception of me being part of his. All of his non Mac solving (and yours as of recently at least), I can completely understand and I agree with.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME can eliminate the NAA/Mac world, that'd be something I'd immensely appreciate. Even just 2-3 words to point the way or summarize the rationale.

[MacDougall]

Spoiler: show

I think that's everyone except Mac not countering.

yeah no cc here

[VOTE: NAA] aubergine

we’re not killing c4

I'll vote this if you don't want to vote Mac

why suddenly do you want to vote me again? was I away from the thread an adequate amount of time for you to feel comfortable pushing me?

everyone's a villager hally so let's start there and then find which villager is the mafia

there’s things wolves do not ever fake and c4 thinking dizzy was softing a red check on me at SoD and soft communicating about it itt is one of those things

Yeah, so there's probably scum between Mac and Jay. Get into it.

there really probably just is not unless Jay is playing his greatest wolf game

dizzy kinda spewing him and wilgy as the team imo

there’s things wolves do not ever fake and c4 thinking dizzy was softing a red check on me at SoD and soft communicating about it itt is one of those things

Yeah, I don't agree with this.

with respect, i don’t care what you agree with

no need to be like that... wilgy is just wilgen

dizzy kinda spewing him and wilgy as the team imo

[VOTE: Mac] aubergine

no no no. This is disgusting.

ahhh found it lol

I don't care tbh I've played enough mafia for one lifetime I'm proper over it hey.

dizzy pushing everywhere he can showing he's actually content with whatever even foiling you and me

Be quiet.

don't be rude...

y'all being way too haughty and rude for my tastes... dial it down ten notches

Don't vote either Wilgy or Nook

Vote me rather, I want out of this game anyway

Good luck figuring out the power Wolfes OR NAA lol

there's just no need for you to be mean

[VOTE: mac] aubergine

whatever trevor

i really don’t know what’s going on

both mafia fake claimed BP in a game they know there isn't one

There's scum between Mac/Jay and I'd even say Hally. That is scary. Likely Mac imo.

NAA is also probably just mafia btw.

Wilgy/Nanook will likely become clear.

there really probably just is not mafia between mac/Jay and hally no matter how much you say it

Mac's posts over the final 20 minutes of Day 2. Again just dumping them for ease of reference while I thonk over the game.

I'd like to caveat that I was operating on 2 hours sleep due to staying up all night playing a mash on MU and it was 7.40am.This was the best content i could muster. This is what I did and focused my limited energy on while I was being wagoned.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

If @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME can eliminate the NAA/Mac world, that'd be something I'd immensely appreciate. Even just 2-3 words to point the way or summarize the rationale.

I cannot

[MacDougall]

@MacDougall last day you seemed pretty paranoid of jay and were even calling him a wolf, and that was before his two pushes MR and dizzy both flipped v

i’m confused what made you start to trust him?

I can't think of anything specific to answer why I went from suspicious of him to trusting of him aside from that my paranoia of him from overnight d1 was of the "lol Marmot died Jay/Hally always has a mafia" variety without considering the requisite dodge. That coupled with Jay just posting himself into a stupor into the wee hours and also our interactions when it was just us in the thread solving. I dunno what else to say aside from he's just the same town Jay he always is. To a degree I am not sure that he can replicate as a wolf anymore. Or moreso, I am sure he can, but I just don't believe he would.

[MacDougall]

for completeness sake, my other concern with jay aside from his NAA defense is how hard he was pushing on MR

i had MR as PoE but i didn’t think he was really wolfy, and i felt jay was kind of stretching for reasons to call MR a wolf and was maybe too confident in it

at one point i even thought jay was softing a red check on MR (hence my post and me asking jay how confident he was in it) because he was pretty much slamming MR and seemed like he was pre-flipping him wolf

in hindsight it isn’t really difficult to view that whole section of the thread as “power wolf jay ruthlessly dunks on LHF villager radishes”

but i’m not sure how much i believe it and outside of that i think jay’s play has generally been villagery

I got the impression that Jay was not actually that confident in it but he got to a point where he was like "well fuck this must be it" and then started almost cynically representing his read as more confident than it was, most likely to humour himself moreso than for any tactical purpose.

[MacDougall]

If @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME can eliminate the NAA/Mac world, that'd be something I'd immensely appreciate. Even just 2-3 words to point the way or summarize the rationale.

I cannot

Axe thinks difference check between me and mac, I think difference check between him and mac, clearly we have to kill mac

So you're just retracting this thing you said earlier?

[MacDougall]

Concern about Mac: if he's town I'd expect him to want my head on a pike right now

This is a misplaced concern. I already had that dance at the start of day 2 and you rectified my concerns to a point where it would be unreasonable for me to act that way again and it's unreasonable for you to assume I'd be that irrational.

Your worldview aligns most to mine as of today. I think you are out of your known wolf range too honestly. I doubt you have it in you these days as mafia to replicate your wolf game to this degree.

If anything you should ponder your statement as I think it would make more sense for me as mafia to "want your head on a pike". By not pushing you I am doing nothing but wrapping the POE around myself more tightly.

@JaggedJimmyJay remember the last time I was mafia and ran out of partners when you were town. What things did I attempt to do on that final day prior to going belly up?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I wouldn't say I was "confident" about the assertion Master Radishes is mafia. I was somewhat confident about the assertion that Dizzy and MR make a ton of sense as a mafia team. I wasn't surprised though when MR claimed watcher or when Dizzy flipped green. Just one of those things. Sometimes reads are poop.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Concern about Mac: if he's town I'd expect him to want my head on a pike right now

This is a misplaced concern. I already had that dance at the start of day 2 and you rectified my concerns to a point where it would be unreasonable for me to act that way again and it's unreasonable for you to assume I'd be that irrational.

Your worldview aligns most to mine as of today. I think you are out of your known wolf range too honestly. I doubt you have it in you these days as mafia to replicate your wolf game to this degree.

If anything you should ponder your statement as I think it would make more sense for me as mafia to "want your head on a pike". By not pushing you I am doing nothing but wrapping the POE around myself more tightly.

@JaggedJimmyJay remember the last time I was mafia and ran out of partners when you were town. What things did I attempt to do on that final day prior to going belly up?

I can't remember clearly, but I suppose it'd be simple to glance at the PerC crossover for a moment.

[MacDougall]

I wouldn't say I was "confident" about the assertion Master Radishes is mafia. I was somewhat confident about the assertion that Dizzy and MR make a ton of sense as a mafia team. I wasn't surprised though when MR claimed watcher or when Dizzy flipped green. Just one of those things. Sometimes reads are poop.

I shared your confidence. I also wasn't confident in them individually as much as I was on them being a team. Yes, sometimes reads are poop.

[MacDougall]

My last ditch stand from that game begins here. https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 28#p813628

This is how I play as a POE clamped wolf. I have not clarified anything about it so if there are similarities c'est la vie.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

If @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME can eliminate the NAA/Mac world, that'd be something I'd immensely appreciate. Even just 2-3 words to point the way or summarize the rationale.

I cannot

Axe thinks difference check between me and mac, I think difference check between him and mac, clearly we have to kill mac

So you're just retracting this thing you said earlier?

More accurate would be i think there's at least one between you lol

[MacDougall]

I think that if you read over some of that game you'll realise that your townread on me here is pretty solid. You had me wolf for large swathes of that game for good reasons. Those reasons are all entirely absent in my play in this game. I know I have range, but I don't believe I have range that I can deploy that tactically to fool specifically you. And that game was not that long ago.

[MacDougall]

I think that if you read over some of that game you'll realise that your townread on me here is pretty solid. You had me wolf for large swathes of that game for good reasons. Those reasons are all entirely absent in my play in this game. I know I have range, but I don't believe I have range that I can deploy that tactically to fool specifically you. And that game was not that long ago.

@JaggedJimmyJay

[MacDougall]

If @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME can eliminate the NAA/Mac world, that'd be something I'd immensely appreciate. Even just 2-3 words to point the way or summarize the rationale.

I cannot

Axe thinks difference check between me and mac, I think difference check between him and mac, clearly we have to kill mac

So you're just retracting this thing you said earlier?

More accurate would be i think there's at least one between you lol

So you're retracting your townread on Axe?

Ok i admit my mistake and no longer scumread you lol

Or are you just saying that your townread on Axe isn't strong enough to rule out that we can be partners even though you kinda think we aren't a likely pair and you have a really strong scumread on me?

Because if you try to tell me that you have a really strong scumread on me I am going to just call you a liar because I am town and I have made myself more than obvious for someone who is capable of reading me as well as you are.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think that if you read over some of that game you'll realise that your townread on me here is pretty solid. You had me wolf for large swathes of that game for good reasons. Those reasons are all entirely absent in my play in this game. I know I have range, but I don't believe I have range that I can deploy that tactically to fool specifically you. And that game was not that long ago.

@JaggedJimmyJay

I was just snooping around in the posts. I'm not sure I'd call your play here "similar" to that endgame, but the dimensions along which the games differ don't tell me a lot about alignment (if I stretch for your sake, I could say you were much more resigned in that one). I think the context is too different though, since that was a gigantic game with a mafia team that melted around you from Day 1 onward.

Anyway, I try to temper my impressions or expectations of your "meta". As I have suggested in this game: I don't think you or I do a great job historically of interpreting each other's meta.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

It's too late at night for me to have real thoughts rn dude

[MacDougall]

Anyways, hally is town Jay is town dizzy is town mac is town

Ez clap

Mac is super lock town lol

These quotes are from this game btw. How do you go from having me super lock town to having me a strong enough mafia read to vote me today the way you did over C4 or Axe? Notwithstanding it's immensely out of character for you to play that way. You don't shift reads as town for bad reasons, especially not on me.

[MacDougall]

I think that if you read over some of that game you'll realise that your townread on me here is pretty solid. You had me wolf for large swathes of that game for good reasons. Those reasons are all entirely absent in my play in this game. I know I have range, but I don't believe I have range that I can deploy that tactically to fool specifically you. And that game was not that long ago.

@JaggedJimmyJay

I was just snooping around in the posts. I'm not sure I'd call your play here "similar" to that endgame, but the dimensions along which the games differ don't tell me a lot about alignment (if I stretch for your sake, I could say you were much more resigned in that one). I think the context is too different though, since that was a gigantic game with a mafia team that melted around you from Day 1 onward.

Anyway, I try to temper my impressions or expectations of your "meta". As I have suggested in this game: I don't think you or I do a great job historically of interpreting each other's meta.

What I am saying is that, generally, you have felt town vibes from me in this game vs. in that game you were on my ass most of the game. You had moments of doubt in both games, but in the main you have townread me here and scumread me there. The reason for that is simply because I am town here and was scum there. You do in fact have a good vibe read on me. A very good one.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Struggling to see a probable scenario with a town NAA.

[MacDougall]

Okay I am going to add that Nanook himself has multiple times told us to stop townreading him for telling Jay to fuck off. I think we should probably heed that warning.

"When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time."

I think if I were to stop giving Nanook any credit for that, I would have him as my top wolf today.

[MacDougall]

Struggling to see a probable scenario with a town NAA.

The game is find the town between Axe, C4 and Nanook imo.

[MacDougall]

Okay I am going to add that Nanook himself has multiple times told us to stop townreading him for telling Jay to fuck off. I think we should probably heed that warning.

"When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time."

I think if I were to stop giving Nanook any credit for that, I would have him as my top wolf today.

I can absolutely 100% feel the reality dawning on me that we are going to lose to wolf Nanook and he is going to be like "i told you not to townread me for telling Jay to fuck off".

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Anyways, hally is town Jay is town dizzy is town mac is town

Ez clap

Mac is super lock town lol

These quotes are from this game btw. How do you go from having me super lock town to having me a strong enough mafia read to vote me today the way you did over C4 or Axe? Notwithstanding it's immensely out of character for you to play that way. You don't shift reads as town for bad reasons, especially not on me.

Push me daddy

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Okay I am going to add that Nanook himself has multiple times told us to stop townreading him for telling Jay to fuck off. I think we should probably heed that warning.

"When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time."

I think if I were to stop giving Nanook any credit for that, I would have him as my top wolf today.

Lulz

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I don't town read Nanook for fuck off.

I might town read Nanook for being annoyed by mechanical incompetence in a scenario where he wanted to act as cover for Wilgy and felt the EOD dialogue was blowing his cover.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Should we just 1v1 and hope for the best

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Is that where you're going with this? Cause it feels like that's where you're going with this

[MacDougall]

Okay I am going to add that Nanook himself has multiple times told us to stop townreading him for telling Jay to fuck off. I think we should probably heed that warning.

"When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time."

I think if I were to stop giving Nanook any credit for that, I would have him as my top wolf today.

Lulz

Yuck it up if you want but I am really struggling to understand this.

If you are town, then your day 1 was just pure troll and bait. You got yourself to the point where you baited me into being obvious town and stated that fact. In almost every game I've seen you exhibit a townread to that extent on me you have maintained it as almost your compass for the rest of the game. Repeatedly shielding me and living vicariously through me. In this game you made that read and really have just done everything the exact opposite to what I would expect you to do with a locktown read on me since, right up to openwolfing and voting me today.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Nanook and c4 are definitely not mafia teammates. So if Nanook is in that set of three, both of the open teams include NAA.

[MacDougall]

Is that where you're going with this? Cause it feels like that's where you're going with this

No, if I was trying to build up to something that would make me a wolf. I am trying to understand why your handling of me in this game has been so extremely unlike any other town game I've ever seen from you.

[MacDougall]

And also why you are reading me so absolutely poorly. You would absolutely be picking up mega clues in what I am doing, even as we speak. You know that when I get this forceful and annoying and confident and obnoxious that I am town. This is exactly what I have to do in every game to get you to drop scumreads on me and mason with me and you are not doing it lol.

[MacDougall]

Nanook and c4 are definitely not mafia teammates. So if Nanook is in that set of three, both of the open teams include NAA.

Why's that?

[MacDougall]

I guess to summarise. I can see your day 1 as town. I can see your day 2 as town. I really cannot see your day 3 as town in the context of your day 1.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Nanook and c4 are definitely not mafia teammates. So if Nanook is in that set of three, both of the open teams include NAA.

Why's that?

That's where I think fuck off has meaning. It doesn't tell me Nanook's alignment, but it evidences frustration in a key moment -- immediately after I had mused over the possibility of a Nanook/c4 team. If that was a mafia Nanook reaction, it'd reflect a very loud case of caught for the wrong reasons.