Dr. Who Mafia - Night 12

#4601

Sabie was the fifth voter for Enrique, Made had 4 votes at the time. Sabie had voted for Made in two previous lynches. She still has not addressed this satisfactorily, IMO.

Chris · #4602

Chris, you want to accuse people of pulling NO Us. As Epig just pointed out, you now suspect the people who have voted for you. How can you be in this state of cognitive dissonance? If you can explain this to me, I'd be willing to have a discussion about who to vote for instead, but you have continually refused to do this.

Dom, I want to ensure that we understand each other. Because honestly, other than me feeling you are forcing reason to vote for me, I didn't think you were bad. I felt that you were hunting baddies. We just seem to have a fog between us that makes us misunderstand each other.

I know things look like NO Us. But it's easy for that to happen. There are a lot of accusations. I mean, if you accuse me of being bad, does that mean I'm never allowed to think you're bad afterward, because it'll be a NO U?

I'm not just suspecting anyone who votes me. Snow voted for me, like you, and it made me wonder why, when there is a better option. In my opinion.

So I looked into Snow, and that's how I found thread evidence in his voting records that he also seemed to know when to change his votes to Rico, after he formerly suspected Made, and Made was still available to vote, but Snow votes for Rico instead.

Just like Sabie.

That's why it looks like a NO U against Snow. His vote for me made me look at his voting record.

Does that makemore sense now?

LINKI Sabie moved her vote for what seemed like no reason. TH said it.

#4603

Turnip Head wrote:Sabie was the fifth voter for Enrique, Made had 4 votes at the time. Sabie had voted for Made in two previous lynches. She still has not addressed this satisfactorily, IMO.

I didn't realize it was tied at the time she voted...

#4604

This is already the longest Mafia thread by post count on the site, holy cow

Chris · #4605

Dom wrote:This is already the longest Mafia thread by post count on the site, holy cow

I'm sorry.

#4606

To be fair I'm only looking at the final voting records in the Polls thread. There could have been some votes that were switched around or something, I didn't look into it that deeply, maybe I should.

#4607

Chris, I unchanged my mind, vote Epignosis again

#4608

I can still get behind an Epignosis vote but I just feel better about voting Sabie.

#4609

So, Chris, this is what I don't understand-- what would Sabie, as a Cyberman, have to gain from stopping to vote for Made? I can see what she would have to gain as a Dalek, but not a Cyberman. I think you've made an excellent case that Sabie is a Dalek-- but she is not.

#4610

Chris wrote:
Dom wrote:This is already the longest Mafia thread by post count on the site, holy cow
I'm sorry.

mp and zeek started it.

Chris · #4611

@ TH: It doesn't change the fact that she went from 2 days of Made to Rico, before anyone knew Made couldn't be lynched.

But go ahead and look., That's what I was doing all day. She just changed, with very little reason/explanation.

@ keys: It puts me in danger. Also, I feel like they're both bad. I feel like there's just better evidence on Sabie. But really, they're both bad.

Just think of my bro. All that arguing would be wasted if I get lynched now...

Dom, coming up

#4612

Shrubhawk what do you think about all this

Chris · #4613

Dom wrote:So, Chris, this is what I don't understand-- what would Sabie, as a Cyberman, have to gain from stopping to vote for Made? I can see what she would have to gain as a Dalek, but not a Cyberman. I think you've made an excellent case that Sabie is a Dalek-- but she is not.

Sabie was voting for Made, who couldn't be lynched. I maintain that as a Cyber, her team role checked Made BEFORE the lynch vote, and switched their efforts to someone who can be lynched. Rico. They all did it. Made was still lynched though, and we found out he was unlynchable. Then he gets NKed, and Rico gets lynched next.

See? They seemed to know to move on to Rico before they were SUPPOSED to know to go to Rico.

#4614

They probably wanted to wait to lynch Made on a day where Strax didn't kill, so that we'd waste two lynches talking about him.

#4615

Hedgeowl wrote:
Chris wrote:
Dom wrote:This is already the longest Mafia thread by post count on the site, holy cow
I'm sorry.
mp and zeek started it.

Can I get a rezz to continue building the count?

#4616

Chris wrote:
Dom wrote:So, Chris, this is what I don't understand-- what would Sabie, as a Cyberman, have to gain from stopping to vote for Made? I can see what she would have to gain as a Dalek, but not a Cyberman. I think you've made an excellent case that Sabie is a Dalek-- but she is not.
Sabie was voting for Made, who couldn't be lynched. I maintain that as a Cyber, her team role checked Made BEFORE the lynch vote, and switched their efforts to someone who can be lynched. Rico. They all did it. Made was still lynched though, and we found out he was unlynchable. Then he gets NKed, and Rico gets lynched next.

See? They seemed to know to move on to Rico before they were SUPPOSED to know to go to Rico.

Why would the Cybermen do this?
Why wouldn't they just vote Made? They have nothing to gain from voting Enrique at the time.

Chris · #4617

DOm: Like TH said, it could have tied up the lynch for two days on Made if they had lynched Rico instead.

Or they just wanted to lynch someone who could be lynched. I don't know. But you've got to admit, it's fucking odd that she switched her vote like she did. That they all did it.

Epig, Sabie, and Snow all switched from Made to Rico.

On the same day.

Chris · #4618

Well, Epig was after Rico the whole time... but my point still stands.

#4619

Aw go on Chris, vote Epig again. I totally won't go back to Sabie just to mess with you.

Fine, I'm heading back over to a Sabie vote. I will say that I agree with Dom, you've made a great case for Sabi being a Dalek! I think in general, Chris, I find your cases too wacky, over-thought. I find Sabie suspicious just from her tone. To me, she's like someone who looks like they're trying hard not to crack up laughing due to some uncontainable secret. Whistling, not looking at you, trying to be nonchalent.

#4620

How does Chris's case make sense for Sabie being a Dalek? I don't see that angle.

Chris · #4621

Turnip Head wrote:How does Chris's case make sense for Sabie being a Dalek? I don't see that angle.

It doesn't.

Especially considering the Dalek team is eliminated.

Chris · #4622

Oh, keys is dissing my case making.

he says I made a better argument for Sabie to be a Dalek than a Cyber.

But I disagree. I think it's clear she's a Cyber.

#4623

Turnip Head wrote:How does Chris's case make sense for Sabie being a Dalek? I don't see that angle.

He's saying that Sabie switched her vote from Enri to Made because she knew Made wouldn't be lynched. Sh had originally placed her vote for Enri to distance herself from him in the (at the time) likely event of his lynch. Of course, the Dalek team has been detroyed.

Chris · #4624

It was a distancing vote keys. It was a change from someone who couldn't be lynched, to someone who could.

Didn't I make that clear?

#4625

Chris, I think you're great at figuring out all the different possibilities of a scenario, just you consider some possibilities as being way more plausible than I would normally do. To put it another, you reachin' brah

Chris · #4626

Chris wrote:It wasn't a distancing vote keys. It was a change from someone who couldn't be lynched, to someone who could.

Didn't I make that clear?

*It WASN'T

#4627

ah gotcha

#4628

Turnip Head wrote:How does Chris's case make sense for Sabie being a Dalek? I don't see that angle.

The Daleks would have wanted to delay Made's lynch, no? They would have wanted to keep that under wraps so Made wouldn't be NK'd, right?

#4629

Chris wrote:DOm: Like TH said, it could have tied up the lynch for two days on Made if they had lynched Rico instead.

Or they just wanted to lynch someone who could be lynched. I don't know. But you've got to admit, it's fucking odd that she switched her vote like she did. That they all did it.

Epig, Sabie, and Snow all switched from Made to Rico.

On the same day.

You think pretty much an entire team did the exact same, traceable thing that would damn them?

#4630

Oh wait, Sabie switched from Made to Enri? Yeah, you guys lost me.

Chris · #4631

Whatever keys. Just so long as Sabie, Epg or Snow gets lynched, you'll see when the turn up Cyber.

I don't know what else to say. I think I found thread evidence linking them all. I can't punch holes in it... so I'm voting for those three until they're all dead, or I am. (Which will happen tonight if I'm not lynched with extra votes from the Cybers)

Chris · #4632

Dom wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:How does Chris's case make sense for Sabie being a Dalek? I don't see that angle.
The Daleks would have wanted to delay Made's lynch, no? They would have wanted to keep that under wraps so Made wouldn't be NK'd, right?

I think the Daleks would have wanted to delay it, yes. But I think that if the Cybers knew that they couldn't kill Made with a lynch, they knew they could kill Rico. So they all switched to Rico. If they had managed to lynch Rico the day Made was lynched, then we tried to lynch Made the next day, Strax wouldn't be able to NK him, and we'd waste another lynch on Made.

Or, like I said before, they could have just wanted to lynch someone who can die...

#4633

so let's lynch Epi then

#4634

Chris wrote:
Dom wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:How does Chris's case make sense for Sabie being a Dalek? I don't see that angle.
The Daleks would have wanted to delay Made's lynch, no? They would have wanted to keep that under wraps so Made wouldn't be NK'd, right?
I think the Daleks would have wanted to delay it, yes. But I think that if the Cybers knew that they couldn't kill Made with a lynch, they knew they could kill Rico. So they all switched to Rico. If they had managed to lynch Rico the day Made was lynched, then we tried to lynch Made the next day, Strax wouldn't be able to NK him, and we'd waste another lynch on Made.

Or, like I said before, they could have just wanted to lynch someone who can die...

WHY?
Why wouldn't the Cybermen want to leave the thread mired in useless Made lynches?
This is the part that I am not following at all?

#4635

Dom wrote:So, Chris, this is what I don't understand-- what would Sabie, as a Cyberman, have to gain from stopping to vote for Made? I can see what she would have to gain as a Dalek, but not a Cyberman. I think you've made an excellent case that Sabie is a Dalek-- but she is not.

Well roxy voted for made between him and enri, so if the cybers really knew the roles and knew made would survive lynches then i could see why she would vote enri later. Early on the cybers would not necassiroly have checked Made, so that may have just been due to thread suspicions of him and going with the flow. I do find her voting strangely preditive based on what Chris pointed out. My initial concern of her was her seeming knowledge of made and Enrique being teammates yet apparently being very busy. It seemed like she had deeper or intuitive knowledge more than was warrented. Her tone and responses as several have noted have not made me feel better about her tbh.

Linki ok ya'll basically said the same. Keys- Didnt she switch from made to enri, not the other way around?

Linki omg posting

#4636

I voted for Sabie. I believe that Chris' role hint (slap in the face) was truthful. The only way he is baddie would be if he's recruited and I not willing to lynch him based on that. I also believe that Sabie is bad so I'm ok with braking the tie.

Chris · #4637

Dom wrote:
Chris wrote:DOm: Like TH said, it could have tied up the lynch for two days on Made if they had lynched Rico instead.

Or they just wanted to lynch someone who could be lynched. I don't know. But you've got to admit, it's fucking odd that she switched her vote like she did. That they all did it.

Epig, Sabie, and Snow all switched from Made to Rico.

On the same day.
You think pretty much an entire team did the exact same, traceable thing that would damn them?

Epig was voting for Rico the whole time. So that wouldn't stick out. Then Sabie went from voting for Made on days 2 and 3 to voting Rico on day 4, before anyone knew Made couldn't be lynched.

Why would she do that? Just why? Ask yourself that.

Then Snow Dog, who was voting for Made the day he was lynched, day 3, comes back on day 4, and votes for Rico.

Again, why?

They knew Made couldn't be lynched. They joined their teammate Epig in his campaign against Rico. Maybe The Daleks figured they'd NK Made, and lynch Rico?

Chris · #4638

Chris wrote: Maybe The Daleks Cybermen figured they'd NK Made, and lynch Rico?

#4639

Chris wrote:LC, I hope you come back and change your vote to Sabie.

Why Sabie & not Epi? I will do it, because I think you are not bad. But the people you are asking to move their votes are Epi voters.

#4640

I moved it, but your push away from Epi, whom you say you also suspect, to Sabie, when there was no clear vote majority, is making me a bit nervous, tbh.

Chris · #4641

Then MP suggested that Strax kill Made, which he did. The CyberMen had the NK that night. They totally could have tried to lynch Rico so they could NK Made.

Then they saw MP's post, and thought, let's let Strax kill him. Worked nice for them if that's what happened.

SVS: They're both Cybers. And if they have the extra votes, I'm afraid I'll get lynched if there's not enough spread.

#4642

Chris wrote:
Dom wrote:
Chris wrote:DOm: Like TH said, it could have tied up the lynch for two days on Made if they had lynched Rico instead.

Or they just wanted to lynch someone who could be lynched. I don't know. But you've got to admit, it's fucking odd that she switched her vote like she did. That they all did it.

Epig, Sabie, and Snow all switched from Made to Rico.

On the same day.
You think pretty much an entire team did the exact same, traceable thing that would damn them?
Epig was voting for Rico the whole time. So that wouldn't stick out. Then Sabie went from voting for Made on days 2 and 3 to voting Rico on day 4, before anyone knew Made couldn't be lynched.

Why would she do that? Just why? Ask yourself that.

Then Snow Dog, who was voting for Made the day he was lynched, day 3, comes back on day 4, and votes for Rico.

Again, why?

They knew Made couldn't be lynched. They joined their teammate Epig in his campaign against Rico. Maybe The Daleks figured they'd NK Made, and lynch Rico?

So this is all predicated on Epig being bad... right?
Why exactly is Epig bad??? Because of what ROXY (a known baddie two times over) said about him?

#4643

S~V~S wrote:I moved it, but your push away from Epi, whom you say you also suspect, to Sabie, when there was no clear vote majority, is making me a bit nervous, tbh.

I actually had the same question. Why didn't you ask me and juliets to switch our votes to Epi?

#4644

Chris, maybe people don't feel like they can have a productive conversation with you because you treat your ideas as fact and other people's as conjecture.

#4645

Dom wrote:
Chris wrote:
Dom wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:How does Chris's case make sense for Sabie being a Dalek? I don't see that angle.
The Daleks would have wanted to delay Made's lynch, no? They would have wanted to keep that under wraps so Made wouldn't be NK'd, right?
I think the Daleks would have wanted to delay it, yes. But I think that if the Cybers knew that they couldn't kill Made with a lynch, they knew they could kill Rico. So they all switched to Rico. If they had managed to lynch Rico the day Made was lynched, then we tried to lynch Made the next day, Strax wouldn't be able to NK him, and we'd waste another lynch on Made.

Or, like I said before, they could have just wanted to lynch someone who can die...
WHY?
Why wouldn't the Cybermen want to leave the thread mired in useless Made lynches?
This is the part that I am not following at all?

I think the important point is that Roxy a dalek voted for. Made over enri because he would survive. If sabie is a cyber and knew made AND enri's role then she would vote Enri necause he would actaully get lynched and have a role reveal, then the evidence would point to made again who had been defending him. Thats the theory that makes some sense to me. I am not totally convinced Epi might be a cyber, because of his initial suspicion of enri as epi. 1.0. I feel better about a sabie vote at this pojnt.

Linki i am wondering the same. Why not just want to lynch epi chris?

#4646

Hedgeowl wrote:
Dom wrote:
Chris wrote:
Dom wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:How does Chris's case make sense for Sabie being a Dalek? I don't see that angle.
The Daleks would have wanted to delay Made's lynch, no? They would have wanted to keep that under wraps so Made wouldn't be NK'd, right?
I think the Daleks would have wanted to delay it, yes. But I think that if the Cybers knew that they couldn't kill Made with a lynch, they knew they could kill Rico. So they all switched to Rico. If they had managed to lynch Rico the day Made was lynched, then we tried to lynch Made the next day, Strax wouldn't be able to NK him, and we'd waste another lynch on Made.

Or, like I said before, they could have just wanted to lynch someone who can die...
WHY?
Why wouldn't the Cybermen want to leave the thread mired in useless Made lynches?
This is the part that I am not following at all?

I think the important point is that Roxy a dalek voted for. Made over enri because he would survive. If sabie is a cyber and knew made AND enri's role then she would vote Enri necause he would actaully get lynched and have a role reveal, then the evidence would point to made again who had been defending him. Thats the theory that makes some sense to me. I am not totally convinced Epi might be a cyber, because of his initial suspicion of enri as epi. 1.0. I feel better about a sabie vote at this pojnt.

Linki i am wondering the same. Why not just want to lynch epi chris?

I feel the same way.

Chris · #4647

TH, you didn't say that you'd move it. And LC said he wasn't dead set on Epig. He's just voting for who he thinks is bad. If you're willing to switch your vote, great! And juliets may not come back.

Like I said, I am concerned (perhaps unnecessarily) that there are going to be unseen votes on me. I really don't want to die. I'm fighting my ass off here. (And I'm having fun)

Dom, maybe that's a problem I have. But in my head, it seems crystal clear. I guess I have trouble trying to look at it from someone else's POV?

But really, it's crystal clear.

#4648

5 votes to go. Dana, DF, Gotrees, Hedgeowl, and Ninjabloopz

Chris · #4649

Hedgie voted

#4650

Chris wrote:TH, you didn't say that you'd move it. And LC said he wasn't dead set on Epig. He's just voting for who he thinks is bad. If you're willing to switch your vote, great! And juliets may not come back.

Like I said, I am concerned (perhaps unnecessarily) that there are going to be unseen votes on me. I really don't want to die. I'm fighting my ass off here. (And I'm having fun)

Dom, maybe that's a problem I have. But in my head, it seems crystal clear. I guess I have trouble trying to look at it from someone else's POV?

But really, it's crystal clear.

So is Sabie being bad predicated on Epig being bad?

24 Hour Days?