Veggie Wars Mafia [TOWN WIN]

[MacDougall]

I read Falcon's ISO and I don't find it nearly wolfy enough to justify the volume of scumreads he's received. I find his ISO towny for him. I doubt he flips mafia here and won't support it.

I think it's absolutely wolfy enough but this gamestate doesn't feel like wolf top wagon.

Okay how often have you been right about Falcon wolf? How often have you scumread town Falcon? @falcon45ca you also comment here.

Also can you actually articulate how Falcon is actually being wolfy that isn't just Falcon's default way of being? Because my biggest problem with this read outside of the fact that too many people have it too easily, is that Falcon just looks like same old Falcon.

I have often townread falcon when others have wolfread him.

That being said there has been a few cases I've been wrong on town!falcon.

But also, town falcon tends to be more fluid with earlygame accusations and pushes and he will probe instead of sitting on one person. I am also not the only person to point this out, when I first mentioned it earlier in this thread someone agreed with my thoughts on it. I forget who and it's past midnight and I'm too tired to check so myeh.

I don't believe I'm a particularly bad reader of Falcon. I like to think I've done pretty well reading him in the past.

I don't see how his early game accusations were not fluid, whatever you mean by that, but suffice to say Falcon was immediately pushed for bad reasons by someone I find scummy so it's very easy for me to excuse him for being a bit more firm in his pushing. He was given a glaring target that nobody but me seems to agree with him on.

[Seanzie]

honestly i'm pretty convinced DADV happened day 1 votes so here is who had no votes. at least 1 maf has to be in no votes IF NOT BOTH HAD NO VOTES

Ender
Finger
LC
Mac
Porscha
NAA
Nanook (not applicable)

(and obviously not me hehe) so between NAA, Mac, LC, Finger, Ender. what's the thoughts? Mac started day by pushing Ender. Falcon getting a lot of attention all game, not sure if someone day 1 kept him from becoming wagon if he was actually wolf up with votes

NAA cracking the whip with his pushy and stand offish posts / pushes idk what to do with it

Mac might be just giving me brain worms and tricking me

LC is *big chilling* from what I can tell and this makes me quite suspicious of them despite my day 1 town read. LC also voted with NAA on Falcon so I don't see any of those 3 paired cuz I think there is 1 mafia between the 3

Just waiting on Finger to get into the game to be able to assess the vibes

also don't know what to think of Ender. think they were high poster day 1. dont know if this was talkative maf who is shmearing the confusion cream cheese on the toast or just a townie trying to cast a wide net to figure something out. idk

as voting stands right now, there are no votes on:

Ender
Finger
LC
Mac
NAA
myself

*LITERALLY THE SAME GROUP OF PEOPLE* and I think we should consider wagoning someone from this list to start putting pressure where it's missing imo

I don't necessarily agree with this post as I like where my vote is at, but I think this is a good look for Porscha. Unless if it is exactly Porscha/Falcon, this is completely unnecessary from wolf!Porscha, and if it is exactly Porscha/Falcon, Porscha is powerwolfing here, and if Falcon goes over, I think it will just expose the whole team. So, probably just not wolf!Porscha.

[MacDougall]

This is one of those games where I feel like I have a good view of the game and my reads are likely well above rand. I often find myself outside of towncore and distrusted when this is the case.

Obviously not impossible I'm just wrong though but if I were flipped right now I'd be inclined to encourage viewing my legacy as confident which isn't always the case.

[NotAnAxehole]

This is one of those games where I feel like I have a good view of the game and my reads are likely well above rand. I often find myself outside of towncore and distrusted when this is the case.

Obviously not impossible I'm just wrong though but if I were flipped right now I'd be inclined to encourage viewing my legacy as confident which isn't always the case.

What would your legacy be? MR+Wiggins+?? (I guess you don't get 3 if you die, but given you're alive, who's your 3rd would-kill)

[EnderWiggin]

I read Falcon's ISO and I don't find it nearly wolfy enough to justify the volume of scumreads he's received. I find his ISO towny for him. I doubt he flips mafia here and won't support it.

I think it's absolutely wolfy enough but this gamestate doesn't feel like wolf top wagon.

Okay how often have you been right about Falcon wolf? How often have you scumread town Falcon? @falcon45ca you also comment here.

Also can you actually articulate how Falcon is actually being wolfy that isn't just Falcon's default way of being? Because my biggest problem with this read outside of the fact that too many people have it too easily, is that Falcon just looks like same old Falcon.

I have often townread falcon when others have wolfread him.

That being said there has been a few cases I've been wrong on town!falcon.

But also, town falcon tends to be more fluid with earlygame accusations and pushes and he will probe instead of sitting on one person. I am also not the only person to point this out, when I first mentioned it earlier in this thread someone agreed with my thoughts on it. I forget who and it's past midnight and I'm too tired to check so myeh.

I don't believe I'm a particularly bad reader of Falcon. I like to think I've done pretty well reading him in the past.

I don't see how his early game accusations were not fluid, whatever you mean by that, but suffice to say Falcon was immediately pushed for bad reasons by someone I find scummy so it's very easy for me to excuse him for being a bit more firm in his pushing. He was given a glaring target that nobody but me seems to agree with him on.

I mean, from the perspective that it's me or MR then Falcon probably is clear, so I can appreciate that.

I just don't agree with that. =P

That being said, stagnant gamestate so pushy buttons.

[Seanzie]

I believe town MR would be scumreading NAA right now.

I don't like this post.

Why not?

You tell me; why might wolf!Mac want MR to feel pressured to read NAA in a certain way?

[MacDougall]

This is one of those games where I feel like I have a good view of the game and my reads are likely well above rand. I often find myself outside of towncore and distrusted when this is the case.

Obviously not impossible I'm just wrong though but if I were flipped right now I'd be inclined to encourage viewing my legacy as confident which isn't always the case.

What would your legacy be? MR+Wiggins+?? (I guess you don't get 3 if you die, but given you're alive, who's your 3rd would-kill)

Falcon

[NotAnAxehole]

@MacDougall You think the Falcon push was for bad reasons, a push I started.

Here are the 4 potential Falcon partners in the game:
Seanzie
LC
Mac
Enderwiggin

Logic puzzle: Why should my world view be anything but reinforced by current threat state & wagons?

[MacDougall]

I believe town MR would be scumreading NAA right now.

I don't like this post.

Why not?

You tell me; why might wolf!Mac want MR to feel pressured to read NAA in a certain way?

That was not my intention. My intention in fact was to vocalise a scumread on MR for not reading NAA the way I expect him to. But nice Seanzieism.

[NotAnAxehole]

thread*

[Seanzie]

Guize.... Guize... I think I solved the game, and we're way off base.

[falcon45ca]

FYI, Falcon is just a surface level read, not a read that I've put any time into.

Yeah, I've been saying that the entire game.

[Seanzie]

[VOTE: Fingersplints] aubergine

[VOTE: Mac] aubergine

[MacDougall]

@MacDougall You think the Falcon push was for bad reasons, a push I started.

Here are the 4 potential Falcon partners in the game:
Seanzie
LC
Mac
Enderwiggin

Logic puzzle: Why should my world view be anything but reinforced by current threat state & wagons?

Firstly I think you know better than to think that I am ever with Falcon with the choices that I've made in this game. I do not have the clout in this game to hard shield Falcon after no posting d1. If I am mafia me shielding Falcon is TMI that he is town. If he is mafia, and I am mafia I bury him without remorse because I have a historically strong Falcon read and it needs representation. I cannot survive and win this game shielding a Falcon who dies today. Also if I am mafia I never zero post d1 because I have someone in discord pinging me out (although that's angleshooting a bit I guess).

I question the relevance of me having to really answer whether your world view should be reinforced by the current thread state & wagons. I am prone to just saying it probably is but also pointing out that if mafia was that easy town would win every game you didn't get night killed or msichopped in, which doesn't happen. In fact I'll just leave it there.

I have Falcon as a must solve for the purpose of gamestate. I have MR and Ender as the scummiest players in the thread. That is my state of the game. I don't fully understand what your issue with my reads are tbh.

[MacDougall]

[VOTE: Fingersplints] aubergine

[VOTE: Mac] aubergine

See now I have an issue cuz like you've been right about me being mafia so many times and here you're sussing me when I'm town so like... what do I do with that? I think I wanna maybe town read you for it because I feel like if you were mafia you would want to project your correct godread and pocket me rather than tilt me and encourage me to omgus. So yeah I'm gonna town read you for this garbage. Happy days for you.

[NotAnAxehole]

I have Falcon as a must solve for the purpose of gamestate. I have MR and Ender as the scummiest players in the thread. That is my state of the game. I don't fully understand what your issue with my reads are tbh.

I just want you to believe in my reads when I say I have certain players that I know give off regular town tells, and instead give a 3rd read that isn't MR. If you claim you have a really solid ability to read a certain player (say Falcon), and I think you're town, I'll take it at face value, even if I don't think you're town, I'll take it as a difference check or pocket attempt depending on the read being scum or town.

[Seanzie]

[VOTE: Fingersplints] aubergine

[VOTE: Mac] aubergine

See now I have an issue cuz like you've been right about me being mafia so many times and here you're sussing me when I'm town so like... what do I do with that? I think I wanna maybe town read you for it because I feel like if you were mafia you would want to project your correct godread and pocket me rather than tilt me and encourage me to omgus. So yeah I'm gonna town read you for this garbage. Happy days for you.

Have you not figured out that I just scumread you every game regardless of what is going on, and just by the luck of the rand we've only ended up t/t for 1 day of 1 game through all of the games we've played together?

Anyways, I am less confident on you, Fingers is super wolfy on how she was approaching Porscha re:Falcon. I think Fingers REALLY wants a falcon elim, and reading Finger's ISO your name pops up in many awkward ways.

[MacDougall]

My legacy if I die would be to not chop Falcon anymore because you can't really afford to and I think he's town. It would be to kill Ender and MR because if neither are mafia I'll eat white dog shit.

My current appraisal is that I do not think Falcon is mafia but I am not going to cry about his chop because the info we'd glean and what I believe his townflip would do to the gamestate is positive things. If we are going to mischop anyone let it be him. And if I am the dumbass and he flips mafia, all good. I'll take the L there and try to dig my way out of the bullshit tomorrow. I won't be voting there or encouraging votes but I also won't be screaming bloody murder if he gets run up and goes over.

[NotAnAxehole]

My legacy if I die would be to not chop Falcon anymore because you can't really afford to and I think he's town. It would be to kill Ender and MR because if neither are mafia I'll eat white dog shit.

My current appraisal is that I do not think Falcon is mafia but I am not going to cry about his chop because the info we'd glean and what I believe his townflip would do to the gamestate is positive things. If we are going to mischop anyone let it be him. And if I am the dumbass and he flips mafia, all good. I'll take the L there and try to dig my way out of the bullshit tomorrow. I won't be voting there or encouraging votes but I also won't be screaming bloody murder if he gets run up and goes over.

Right, so if we're not killing Falcon & MR, who are your other 2 aside from EnderWiggin.

[NotAnAxehole]

My legacy if I die would be to not chop Falcon anymore because you can't really afford to and I think he's town. It would be to kill Ender and MR because if neither are mafia I'll eat white dog shit.

My current appraisal is that I do not think Falcon is mafia but I am not going to cry about his chop because the info we'd glean and what I believe his townflip would do to the gamestate is positive things. If we are going to mischop anyone let it be him. And if I am the dumbass and he flips mafia, all good. I'll take the L there and try to dig my way out of the bullshit tomorrow. I won't be voting there or encouraging votes but I also won't be screaming bloody murder if he gets run up and goes over.

Right, so if we're not killing Falcon & MR, who are your other 2 aside from EnderWiggin.

The other 2 not being mafia, but being chops

[MacDougall]

[VOTE: Fingersplints] aubergine

[VOTE: Mac] aubergine

See now I have an issue cuz like you've been right about me being mafia so many times and here you're sussing me when I'm town so like... what do I do with that? I think I wanna maybe town read you for it because I feel like if you were mafia you would want to project your correct godread and pocket me rather than tilt me and encourage me to omgus. So yeah I'm gonna town read you for this garbage. Happy days for you.

Have you not figured out that I just scumread you every game regardless of what is going on, and just by the luck of the rand we've only ended up t/t for 1 day of 1 game through all of the games we've played together?

Anyways, I am less confident on you, Fingers is super wolfy on how she was approaching Porscha re:Falcon. I think Fingers REALLY wants a falcon elim, and reading Finger's ISO your name pops up in many awkward ways.

Lol no I like to give people credit and make them feel good about themselves not invalidate their wins with hubris. I know it doesn't seem like that sometimes but I am all about the positive self appraisal lol.

You can have that read. I think Fingersplints has been quite pure. I am quite tunneled on MR and Ender being wolfy. I would probably need Fingersplints to accidentally slip their role card in the thread for me to be moved in that direction right now. Not ruling it out, but like ... I guess you could try to articulate your argument a bit more cuz I'm not going to go back and read all of it and try to confirmation bias myself into agreeing with you. I don't think anyone does lol. So if you actually want to persuade me or anyone probs do better I guess.

[MacDougall]

My legacy if I die would be to not chop Falcon anymore because you can't really afford to and I think he's town. It would be to kill Ender and MR because if neither are mafia I'll eat white dog shit.

My current appraisal is that I do not think Falcon is mafia but I am not going to cry about his chop because the info we'd glean and what I believe his townflip would do to the gamestate is positive things. If we are going to mischop anyone let it be him. And if I am the dumbass and he flips mafia, all good. I'll take the L there and try to dig my way out of the bullshit tomorrow. I won't be voting there or encouraging votes but I also won't be screaming bloody murder if he gets run up and goes over.

Right, so if we're not killing Falcon & MR, who are your other 2 aside from EnderWiggin.

The other 2 not being mafia, but being chops

Why do I need another 2 exactly?

[NotAnAxehole]

My legacy if I die would be to not chop Falcon anymore because you can't really afford to and I think he's town. It would be to kill Ender and MR because if neither are mafia I'll eat white dog shit.

My current appraisal is that I do not think Falcon is mafia but I am not going to cry about his chop because the info we'd glean and what I believe his townflip would do to the gamestate is positive things. If we are going to mischop anyone let it be him. And if I am the dumbass and he flips mafia, all good. I'll take the L there and try to dig my way out of the bullshit tomorrow. I won't be voting there or encouraging votes but I also won't be screaming bloody murder if he gets run up and goes over.

Right, so if we're not killing Falcon & MR, who are your other 2 aside from EnderWiggin.

The other 2 not being mafia, but being chops

Why do I need another 2 exactly?

3 chops, I'm just asking how you see this going down if we were to consolidate our position.

[NotAnAxehole]

Listen, I'm not going to cry over MR going over, but if you're town and you town read Falcon confidently, I'm town, I town read MR confidently... And we're both willing to let that slide, then we've lost the game, and we might as well concede now.

So the ball is in your court if you want to go down the road of me determining if you can find a logical pairing outside of that or not. I've already made it clear I think that's impossible, so I need help seeing the light.

[MacDougall]

Are you asking what we do next if we chop Ender and he flips mafia?

I don't know. Read his spew and evaluate from there? Kill MR anyway? I dunno I just want pelt someone not solve the entire game right now.

[MacDougall]

Listen, I'm not going to cry over MR going over, but if you're town and you town read Falcon confidently, I'm town, I town read MR confidently... And we're both willing to let that slide, then we've lost the game, and we might as well concede now.

So the ball is in your court if you want to go down the road of me determining if you can find a logical pairing outside of that or not. I've already made it clear I think that's impossible, so I need help seeing the light.

Why do I have to be the one to acquiesce when I am the one that has demonstrated history of reading Falcon accurately in situations like this? Recent, frequent history?

[NotAnAxehole]

Listen, I'm not going to cry over MR going over, but if you're town and you town read Falcon confidently, I'm town, I town read MR confidently... And we're both willing to let that slide, then we've lost the game, and we might as well concede now.

So the ball is in your court if you want to go down the road of me determining if you can find a logical pairing outside of that or not. I've already made it clear I think that's impossible, so I need help seeing the light.

Why do I have to be the one to acquiesce when I am the one that has demonstrated history of reading Falcon accurately in situations like this? Recent, frequent history?

You don't have to, you can go ahead with flipping MR, be wrong, and the game will be over because our situation will be impossible to re-consider. I'm asking you for your read on the situation because I've already given mine (I think it's impossible for you and Falcon to both be town).

[MacDougall]

who's a rotten veggie?
Poll runs till Sun Mar 27, 2022 12:00 am
Please note that if you vote, your vote will be visible.

You may select 1 option


EnderWiggin
0
No votes
Voters: None
DrWilgy
2
18%
Voters: falcon45ca, Master Radishes
falcon45ca
2
18%
Voters: NotAnAxehole, Lime Coke
fingersplints
0
No votes
Voters: None
Lime Coke
0
No votes
Voters: None
MacDougall
0
No votes
Voters: None
Master Radishes
2
18%
Voters: Porscha, DrWilgy
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
0
No votes
Voters: None
NotAnAxehole
0
No votes
Voters: None
Porscha
0
No votes
Voters: None
Seanzie
2
18%
Voters: EnderWiggin, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
Sleep (no yeet)
0
No votes
Voters: None
Unvote
0
No votes
Voters: None
host/mods/spec
3
27%
Voters: dunya, Scotty, Justplayingitcool
Total votes: 11

An Ender red flip on the surface would rule out Seanzie for level 1 reasons. The most egregious day 1 player by vote alone aside from MR and Ender, is Falcon. Wilgy is a magnet for scum votes generally. If you are going to forgive MR for it and ignore the fact that dead town Wilgy was voting MR in this tie then you just flip Falcon after Ender red. If I cannot convince you to flip MR after Ender red, flip Falcon.

If Ender flips green and I still can't convince you to flip MR, you just flip Falcon next.

All of this pending assessing the full outcome of day 2 which remains to be seen. Playing out day 3 speculatively before day 2 ends is just wasting posts imo.

[NotAnAxehole]

If it helps, the full read is:

I think it's impossible for me, you, Falcon, MR to all be town.

[MacDougall]

Listen, I'm not going to cry over MR going over, but if you're town and you town read Falcon confidently, I'm town, I town read MR confidently... And we're both willing to let that slide, then we've lost the game, and we might as well concede now.

So the ball is in your court if you want to go down the road of me determining if you can find a logical pairing outside of that or not. I've already made it clear I think that's impossible, so I need help seeing the light.

Why do I have to be the one to acquiesce when I am the one that has demonstrated history of reading Falcon accurately in situations like this? Recent, frequent history?

You don't have to, you can go ahead with flipping MR, be wrong, and the game will be over because our situation will be impossible to re-consider. I'm asking you for your read on the situation because I've already given mine (I think it's impossible for you and Falcon to both be town).

Why is it impossible for us both to be town?

[NotAnAxehole]

Listen, I'm not going to cry over MR going over, but if you're town and you town read Falcon confidently, I'm town, I town read MR confidently... And we're both willing to let that slide, then we've lost the game, and we might as well concede now.

So the ball is in your court if you want to go down the road of me determining if you can find a logical pairing outside of that or not. I've already made it clear I think that's impossible, so I need help seeing the light.

Why do I have to be the one to acquiesce when I am the one that has demonstrated history of reading Falcon accurately in situations like this? Recent, frequent history?

I've never given a data driven town tell that's been wrong.

[MacDougall]

If it helps, the full read is:

I think it's impossible for me, you, Falcon, MR to all be town.

All it would take is for me to be right about Falcon and for you to be wrong about MR. What is so outlandish about that?

[NotAnAxehole]

Listen, I'm not going to cry over MR going over, but if you're town and you town read Falcon confidently, I'm town, I town read MR confidently... And we're both willing to let that slide, then we've lost the game, and we might as well concede now.

So the ball is in your court if you want to go down the road of me determining if you can find a logical pairing outside of that or not. I've already made it clear I think that's impossible, so I need help seeing the light.

Why do I have to be the one to acquiesce when I am the one that has demonstrated history of reading Falcon accurately in situations like this? Recent, frequent history?

You don't have to, you can go ahead with flipping MR, be wrong, and the game will be over because our situation will be impossible to re-consider. I'm asking you for your read on the situation because I've already given mine (I think it's impossible for you and Falcon to both be town).

Why is it impossible for us both to be town?

If it helps, the full read is:

I think it's impossible for me, you, Falcon, MR to all be town.

I won't explain the read, it's just a very very high % mech play.

[falcon45ca]

@falcon45ca im obviously the only person here that has the potential to prevent your chop so you should probably talk to me about your reads etc. etc.

Seanzie and fingers are giving an inordinate amount of credibility to NAAs read on me...even tho it should be painfully clear that his read is superficial.


MR is playing a style that, if he's Maf, wouldn't pan out in a bigger game. This game being what it is tho, it's not a bad strategy


NAA is prolly just trolling town

[NotAnAxehole]

If it helps, the full read is:

I think it's impossible for me, you, Falcon, MR to all be town.

All it would take is for me to be right about Falcon and for you to be wrong about MR. What is so outlandish about that?

Listen, I'm not going to cry over MR going over, but if you're town and you town read Falcon confidently, I'm town, I town read MR confidently... And we're both willing to let that slide, then we've lost the game, and we might as well concede now.

So the ball is in your court if you want to go down the road of me determining if you can find a logical pairing outside of that or not. I've already made it clear I think that's impossible, so I need help seeing the light.

Why do I have to be the one to acquiesce when I am the one that has demonstrated history of reading Falcon accurately in situations like this? Recent, frequent history?

I've never given a data driven town tell that's been wrong.

[MacDougall]

Okay so as of this very second who do you think the mafia are?

[MacDougall]

Okay so if I were to rescind my scumread on MR, how does your statement that the four of us can't be town still apply? @NotAnAxehole

[falcon45ca]

I've not found much reason to change my take on Ender, but I've also not found reason to push it further.

[falcon45ca]

Okay so as of this very second who do you think the mafia are?

Who are you asking?

[NotAnAxehole]

Okay so if I were to rescind my scumread on MR, how does your statement that the four of us can't be town still apply? @NotAnAxehole

Your read on MR is irrelevant to the read.

[MacDougall]

NAA

[falcon45ca]

[VOTE: Sean] aubergine


POE of Sean, fingers, Ender, MR

[MacDougall]

Okay so if I were to rescind my scumread on MR, how does your statement that the four of us can't be town still apply? @NotAnAxehole

Your read on MR is irrelevant to the read.

If you can't explain it to me, you're asking me to just simply forgo using all of my own logic, ignore my intuition on Falcon and simply defer to your mystery read.

You're asking Macdougall. To do that.

[falcon45ca]

Okay so if I were to rescind my scumread on MR, how does your statement that the four of us can't be town still apply? @NotAnAxehole

Your read on MR is irrelevant to the read.

Do you still feel Mac is Maf?

[NotAnAxehole]

Okay so as of this very second who do you think the mafia are?

Falcon + Ender/Seanzie/LC/You

or

You + 1 (Litterally no clue)

So, that's why I wanted to see if you can give me a logical solve that is outside of this / if you would need to bend over backwards to do so. I think if you're town, we need to agree on one of MR or Falcon being mafia, which is really tough as of right now. Or we hunt the partner, and I get to read you off of that.

Why am I asking you to demonstrate? Because you already think I'm town, and because you already know my take on the game, I posted it many pages ago.

[Seanzie]

[VOTE: Fingersplints] aubergine

[VOTE: Mac] aubergine

See now I have an issue cuz like you've been right about me being mafia so many times and here you're sussing me when I'm town so like... what do I do with that? I think I wanna maybe town read you for it because I feel like if you were mafia you would want to project your correct godread and pocket me rather than tilt me and encourage me to omgus. So yeah I'm gonna town read you for this garbage. Happy days for you.

Have you not figured out that I just scumread you every game regardless of what is going on, and just by the luck of the rand we've only ended up t/t for 1 day of 1 game through all of the games we've played together?

Anyways, I am less confident on you, Fingers is super wolfy on how she was approaching Porscha re:Falcon. I think Fingers REALLY wants a falcon elim, and reading Finger's ISO your name pops up in many awkward ways.

Lol no I like to give people credit and make them feel good about themselves not invalidate their wins with hubris. I know it doesn't seem like that sometimes but I am all about the positive self appraisal lol.

You can have that read. I think Fingersplints has been quite pure. I am quite tunneled on MR and Ender being wolfy. I would probably need Fingersplints to accidentally slip their role card in the thread for me to be moved in that direction right now. Not ruling it out, but like ... I guess you could try to articulate your argument a bit more cuz I'm not going to go back and read all of it and try to confirmation bias myself into agreeing with you. I don't think anyone does lol. So if you actually want to persuade me or anyone probs do better I guess.

What makes Fingersplints pure? Is it tone or is it something game-related? Because from what I can tell all she's really done is talk about Falcon, and then give a few other throwaway takes. Now, sure the approach of just talking about a single slot in the game isn't the best for wolves, but idk how Fingersplints wolf game is in general, and tunneling someone is a good way for decent-but-not-top-tier wolves to generate content without having to digest the whole game.

I don't have time to go through a detailed case because I need to get in the shower or I'mma be late for a meeting, but looking through Finger's ISO, D1 all she did was give a light townlean and soft defense of Falcon. Then on D2, Falcon said her slot was null (which 3 posts deep, yes her slot was null), and Fingers flipped on Falcon because of this, and then immediately was encouraging a Falcon elim and aside from some shade thrown at LC and some soft defense of you and Ender, Fingers has really just pushed Falcon without furthering that read. Then Porscha comes in, suggesting that maybe we look at some of the wagons that haven't gotten a lot of heat, and then Fingers starts accusing Porscha of being teamed with Falcon, which sure, surface level that would make sense, but I think falls apart pretty quickly upon inspection. It feels like Figners choose a target at D2 (Falcon) when it felt like the wind was blowing in that direction, and has locked on and they aren't really considering alternatives, but they aren't like hardpushing the idea the way I'd expect from a tunnelled town.

And like posts like this:

I don’t get your stance at all. More than just falcon has been talked about. More than just falcon has been voted for in the past. The thread has been in this state the entire game. It’s a small game.

Just make it feel like Fingers is kinda aware that all they've done is push Falcon, and is trying to be like "There is nothing to see here, this is normal. Falcon isn't clearly the day's designated miselim. There is no war in Ba Sing Se".

[falcon45ca]

[VOTE: fingers] aubergineOK, that was a nice Avatar reference Sean

[NotAnAxehole]

Okay so if I were to rescind my scumread on MR, how does your statement that the four of us can't be town still apply? @NotAnAxehole

Your read on MR is irrelevant to the read.

If you can't explain it to me, you're asking me to just simply forgo using all of my own logic, ignore my intuition on Falcon and simply defer to your mystery read.

You're asking Macdougall. To do that.

I understand the issue, we both agree that Seanzie is town. Neither of us has expressed a take on LC, and both of us have Ender in our would chop list. The question then is, would you bet the game on Ender being mafia, because I don't think I'm that confident that I would.

[NotAnAxehole]

Also, I'm not putting a lot of weight on this kill just for the sake of it, we only get 2 misschops in this format, and we've already expended one on someone who I've repeatedly said through the last 3-4 games is extremely polarized and easy to read.

[MacDougall]

My take on LC is that he was too towny d1 for him to be able to fake as mafia but then on day 2 he's been super scummy ever since i showed up. I have him as plausibly with Ender and felt like there were periods during day 1 where they were working in lockstep to push pro wolf agenda. It got to a point where it became too obvious for me to genuinely believe it though.

Anyway I can't hash this out with you further it's midnight. Try to convince Seanzie or something in your worldview I dunno. Can't believe you still actually suspect me after this tbh.