[Endgame] Masters of the Universe Mafia

[Snow Dog]

can I has a Rez plz

Long live SKELETOR!!!

You played a good game. Well done.

[Zany Dex]

can I has a Rez plz

Long live SKELETOR!!!

You played a good game. Well done.

thanks I had a blast!!!

Go team snake mountain!!!

[indiglo]

I'm SO glad we finally got him, took long enough >.> BIH tri-klops. Now seeing as He-Man did turn out baddie, this puts some questions into light: What of the people He-Man was so bent on assuring us they were all civvies? Especially after the lynch vote on Boomslang, who we now know was He-Man's teammate. He tied the vote between Boomslang and BF. Now why would somebody vote their teammate over someone who wasn't on their team? This definitely gives me reasonable cause to think that BF is on Snake Mountain, and the vote wasn't to throw a teammate under the bus, but was in fact, to tie the vote between two teammates for the off chance that they are both spared.

I was thinking this exact thing. He-Man's vote for Boomslang really only makes sense if BF is Snake Mountain too.

While I can see why someone may come to this conclusion... this is still barking up the wrong tree.

[thellama73]

I'm SO glad we finally got him, took long enough >.> BIH tri-klops. Now seeing as He-Man did turn out baddie, this puts some questions into light: What of the people He-Man was so bent on assuring us they were all civvies? Especially after the lynch vote on Boomslang, who we now know was He-Man's teammate. He tied the vote between Boomslang and BF. Now why would somebody vote their teammate over someone who wasn't on their team? This definitely gives me reasonable cause to think that BF is on Snake Mountain, and the vote wasn't to throw a teammate under the bus, but was in fact, to tie the vote between two teammates for the off chance that they are both spared.

I was thinking this exact thing. He-Man's vote for Boomslang really only makes sense if BF is Snake Mountain too.

While I can see why someone may come to this conclusion... this is still barking up the wrong tree.

How do you know?

[>SpaghettiEverywhere]

I'm SO glad we finally got him, took long enough >.> BIH tri-klops. Now seeing as He-Man did turn out baddie, this puts some questions into light: What of the people He-Man was so bent on assuring us they were all civvies? Especially after the lynch vote on Boomslang, who we now know was He-Man's teammate. He tied the vote between Boomslang and BF. Now why would somebody vote their teammate over someone who wasn't on their team? This definitely gives me reasonable cause to think that BF is on Snake Mountain, and the vote wasn't to throw a teammate under the bus, but was in fact, to tie the vote between two teammates for the off chance that they are both spared.

I was thinking this exact thing. He-Man's vote for Boomslang really only makes sense if BF is Snake Mountain too.

While I can see why someone may come to this conclusion... this is still barking up the wrong tree.

Can you please explain any other situation that would have caused He-Man to vote this way?

[thellama73]

/me has to leave for work (on a Saturday! Bah!) in a half hour, and wants to read the new host post before he goes.

[indiglo]

Can you please explain any other situation that would have caused He-Man to vote this way?

I am not psychically connected to He-Man, so no I cannot explain why he voted any way or did any particular thing. Let's face it though - he played a damn good game, didn't he? He played so well that his game play is STILL affecting/manipulating the game.

I'm actually thinking along the same lines as Timmer, which quite frankly has me very scared. LOL Looking into some of the Dom voters from yesterday seems like it will be the most likely way to net us a mafioso. I also think looking at some of the folks putting out this new theory will be good to look at... so if they fall into the Dom voters from yesterday... well then I think we might have found something. It all strikes me as extremely opportunistic.

[thellama73]

Can you please explain any other situation that would have caused He-Man to vote this way?

I am not psychically connected to He-Man, so no I cannot explain why he voted any way or did any particular thing. Let's face it though - he played a damn good game, didn't he? He played so well that his game play is STILL affecting/manipulating the game.

I'm actually thinking along the same lines as Timmer, which quite frankly has me very scared. LOL Looking into some of the Dom voters from yesterday seems like it will be the most likely way to net us a mafioso. I also think looking at some of the folks putting out this new theory will be good to look at... so if they fall into the Dom voters from yesterday... well then I think we might have found something. It all strikes me as extremely opportunistic.

But you haven't explained at all why you think the theory about BF is wrong. You say the theory is opportunistic, but it is also quite plausible and you don't give any reason to dismiss it. You are merely pointing fingers and trying to stir up discontent.

[Tangrowth]

I don't know, I have been reading BF as a civvie for most of the game, so if he is baddie he really is pulling the wool over my eyes. I am going to re-read the way everything went down yesterday since I think we should be able to tell something amid all of the discussion, but first I need to study more. I'll see what I can come up with.

[thellama73]

I don't know, I have been reading BF as a civvie for most of the game, so if he is baddie he really is pulling the wool over my eyes. I am going to re-read the way everything went down yesterday since I think we should be able to tell something amid all of the discussion, but first I need to study more. I'll see what I can come up with.

I was reading BF as civvie too, but then he voted for DH after you were compelled to voet for him. That was my first red flag. The He-Man vote really makes me wonder.

[Tangrowth]

I don't know, I have been reading BF as a civvie for most of the game, so if he is baddie he really is pulling the wool over my eyes. I am going to re-read the way everything went down yesterday since I think we should be able to tell something amid all of the discussion, but first I need to study more. I'll see what I can come up with.

I was reading BF as civvie too, but then he voted for DH after you were compelled to voet for him. That was my first red flag. The He-Man vote really makes me wonder.

That's a good point, the DH votes are pretty incriminating. I do want to hear what he has to say though and I'm still not sure I think he's bad. I'll finish up this lecture and homework section and do some thread digging tonight to see if we can make more sense of all of this.

[juliets]

I don't know, I have been reading BF as a civvie for most of the game, so if he is baddie he really is pulling the wool over my eyes. I am going to re-read the way everything went down yesterday since I think we should be able to tell something amid all of the discussion, but first I need to study more. I'll see what I can come up with.

I was reading BF as civvie too, but then he voted for DH after you were compelled to voet for him. That was my first red flag. The He-Man vote really makes me wonder.

That's a good point, the DH votes are pretty incriminating. I do want to hear what he has to say though and I'm still not sure I think he's bad. I'll finish up this lecture and homework section and do some thread digging tonight to see if we can make more sense of all of this.

I've also been reading BF as civv through the game and it seems like he had an explanation for that DH vote that I thought was ok. I'll have to dig back through and find it though, I may be misremembering. Another thing though that makes me think he's not He Man's teammate is his vote for He Man so early in the day because he was leaving on his cruise. If he was He Man's teammate why vote for him at that time? It wasn't apparent he would get lynched. Why not just vote for someone else?

[Epignosis]

Night 6: Too Much to Drink?

The drinks flowed freely, and everyone, eager to forget their collective woe at least for a time, drank until there were songs and laughter. The barkeep was pleased; he could not recall when his shabby tavern was full of such mirth.

It was then that Odiphus crept up behind AllAlongTheBoardwalk and took something out of one of his pockets.

“It’s that damned cat!” AllAlongTheBoardwalk slurred. He had been drinking something that wasn’t even offered on the menu, something cheap and nasty that the proprietor had been eager to get rid of. The victim of the theft staggered from his stool after the kleptomaniacal Odiphus.

He followed him into some chemical warehouse.

“Come back with that!”

He heard something drop. It was whatever Odiphus had taken, but in the dark, AllAlongTheBoardwalk was unsure of what exactly it was. The vats of malodorous chemicals provided no illumination, only a foul stench that made even an intoxicated AllAlongTheBoardwalk cover his face.

He turned, but bumped into someone. “You have caused us enough trouble,” the snarling voice said. A blinding flash came forth from the arm of the figure, tearing a hole through AllAlongTheBoardwalk’s chest. Staggering desperately in the throes of his demise, he pushed his attacker, and a second, errant shot tore through the warehouse and ignited the contents of one of the vats. The fire spread.

AllAlongTheBoardwalk’s last sight, blurred and confused with alcohol and blood loss, was that of a fiery building collapsing, several foul explosions, and the scream of Odiphus.

AllAlongTheBoardwalk has been killed by The Horde.

[Epignosis]

Night 6: The Power of Grayskull

As the fires of the destroyed workshop drifted skyward, lightning struck behind it, and glorious power transformed the flames into what appeared to be The Sorceress.

For surely, even all in their cups as they were, they could not have all seen the same image! But there it was.

And even that display, raging in the night, could not have prepared them for what happened next.

DharmaHelper emerged from the flames, as though unconcerned by the devastating heat. He walked toward the onlookers, as though in a daze. Eventually, his mind came to him.

“How is it I have returned from death?”

DharmaHelper has been resurrected by The Sorceress.

[Epignosis]

Night 7: The Plains of Perpetua

The events of the previous night, coupled with the ramifications of overindulgence for some, were almost too much for the addled minds of the revelers. The morning light made the eyes of some ache; several found it difficult to reason.

The town, eager to see the injurious party off, banded together and ran them all out of town, north.

The windswept plains became more and more revealed as the day broke. The rich beauty of earth and sky and the favorable weather was no consolation to those who had been less judicious the night prior.

More than once, the more clearheaded among them felt like someone was following them, but even in the wide open area, they could find no proof.

After a time, they came upon someone.

A bald old man, his face creased in a hundred places, was sitting on a lone stump, and he gave no indication that he even saw the party pass by him.

They could hear his singsong voice repeating the same phrase: “People killed here tend to have a way of…lingering on…especially at night.”

There were two missing PMs.

It is now Day 7. You have 48 hours to lynch someone.

[Snow Dog]

Welcome back DH!

[Flyin' High]

RIPIYWG AATB!

And WBIYAG DH--I feel like you are.

[LittleTiger]

WB DH! RIPiywg, AAtB!

Great posts, Epignosis

[Tangrowth]

RIPIYWG AATB. I was thinking you were, but was not sure. And welcome back DH! Very interested to hear what you have to contribute.

So I looked back through Day 6's posts and what struck me as most notable was how the He-Man lynch began and rolled along. I'm going to pull specific quotes here because I think something may be up. As many of us observed, He-Man was playing a really good baddie game. I thought I had him nailed at the beginning of the game but he really made me doubt myself off and on all game. What I find interesting on reflection is how sure some people were, not totally sure what it means, but I have a theory.

[indiglo]

RIPIYWG AATB!

WB DH! You are like the Energizer Bunny - I love it!

[indiglo]

EBWOP:

Also, more epic posts, Epignosis! You're doing a really great job with the game.

[Tangrowth]

Okay, let me go through these as they happened in the thread chronologically. Warning, this is a long post. If you want my summary analysis of these posts, go to my next post.

BF, juliets, and indiglo seem to know something beyond public knowledge. Here is the first mention of He-Man all day yesterday.

I'm about to go on break at work and try to catch up. Remember I'm leaving for a cruise tomorrow so I'll probably be scarce or non-existent in the thread. But until then I notice LT is questioning my vote on Day 3 for DH. Unfortunately I was silenced that day and therefore couldn't influence the thread. I remember being unhappy with all of the lynch choices that day, but at the time, I was getting civvie vibes from He-Man, so I used my vote to tie him with DH (like he did for me on Day 1 with boomslang). I'm still sorta lost on how DH got lynched over He-Man though, since DH clearly had fewer votes. Anyway, I'm not really getting warm fuzzies from He-Man anymore, I'm not sure that I could put my finger on it but.

linki w/ llama.

BF mentions that he is no longer getting the warm fuzzies from He-Man. Understandable.

Time for some re-reading of people, methinks!

I think we need to hear more from Dom - who has said several times that he has forgotten he is playing he also got a bit aggressive with Snow Dog over being new

Indiglo - during the 2nd BWT lynch, you seemed to want people to think that he could be an Indy based on the Timmer lynch and what people were surmising from his almost unanimous vote. However, the two lynches were not quite the same and BWT did not get a unanimous vote the first time around. In fact, the first time around, you had no problems voting for BWT at all. Is that because you knew he would not be lynched?

You mis-read my question/post. That's not at all what I "wanted people to think". I was probing Juliets about it to see what her thoughts were on the matter.

I don't believe for a second we have definitive proof that Timmer is an Indy (which I've said in the thread at least once), and it surprised me that we had a very similar lynch (well, non-lynch) with BWT - but the next day everyone still wanted to lynch BWT. But when it happened with Timmer many folks were saying "oh, we better not try to lynch Timmer again, that didn't work out so well". I find that double standard very odd, tbh.

Still have a page of posts to catch up on, and like Llama I'm not really sure what direction to head in for today's lynch. I do have in mind a couple of people to re-read though... maybe that will turn up something.

Now here Indiglo says that she has a couple people in mind to re-read and that maybe it will turn up something.

I have to agree re: Timmer. What is it about his non lynch that makes everyone think he is not a baddie?

I think his attitude and his very demeanour.

I've explained why I think this a bunch of times and I am not going to do it again. You can read my pas posts on the topic.

Honestly, you're all free to disagree with me, but the people who keep pretending that those who think Timmer is Zodac haven't explained themselves are either being intentionally dense or trying to throw us off the track. It's very pingy to me.

Ok, hold the phone. That just isn't true. Let's remember not to get tunnel vision here as the game goes on. I am most certainly not being intentionally dense (and that's not a very nice thing to say), and I am most certainly not trying to throw anyone off track. Just because someone doesn't agree with you or doesn't see things the same way you do doesn't make them stupid (on purpose or on accident) or mafia.

So let's avoid the name calling/insults if possible, as we've already discussed that earlier in the thread.

I only know what I know - and that's limited. I only see what I see in the thread - and it's just my perspective on what I read from other people. It's easy to read into things that aren't there, or see something someone else doesn't see - whether it's really there or not. But sometimes it can be easy to get a little over zealous when you really believe something (or really know something is true) and someone else doesn't see it just yet.


I would like to do a re-read on Dom today - though it will be very quick and won't tell me much since he's hardly posted. And I'd also like to do a re-read on He-Man.



Oh, I also just saw something in LT's post that caught my eye...

In fact, the first time around, you had no problems voting for BWT at all. Is that because you knew he would not be lynched?

Nope, that's because while he was defending himself he contradicted himself. Made it pretty obvious to me he was bad.

Here's indiglo's next post. She says she would like to re-read Dom and He-Man specifically.

Ok, so from the get go I noticed that several of us have been pinged by He-Man throughout the course of the game. Let's look at how some of his posts/game play has progressed throughout the game.

First he starts off encouraging Llama's enthusiasm about who we should begin looking at. (Folks who missed the vote.)

Then he continues to encourage it, by asking... "so, who never voted?"

This was his first mention of "finding baddies" - which he feels we'll be able to do with much discussion.

Next he says he feels all the discussion is "chaotic".

While in his next post he says "FYI, I love all the chat it's great". So from the first day, we're already seeing some contradictions in He-Man's posts.

Here he starts backpeddling that he didn't support Llama's method of (looking at non-voters), but he just supported his enthusiasm. (But remember, up above, he asked "so, who missed the vote?") He also pulls a "no U" on MP who called him on his contradictions.

Here is where there was some back and forth between He-Man & Kate where she was calling him on his contradictions. His defense is basically another "no U".

Then he starts looking at DH, when he had never mentioned DH once in all his other posts (with long lists of names), now suddenly he's all for looking at DH - ONLY AFTER MP talked about voting DH due to MP's hex.

Here's yet another list of names, and how convenient that everyone on his list was silenced that day! Also now he flip flops on Kate, and says she hasn't done anything that warrants a vote for her. (When he "no U'ed" her earlier when she pointed out his contradictions.)

More talk about DH - and He-Man admits that even though MP may be hexed ("interesting theory") he still thinks DH is bad, and likely on The Horde.

Here he votes DH, because "DH is playing his baddie game". Why He-Man never mentioned this until MP was hexed is a mystery though.

Here he continues to defend his DH vote - I suppose setting up a likely defense in the even DH was lynched and flipped civ. Still, if He-Man saw DH's baddie game, why wasn't it mentioned before MP's hex to vote DH?

Now all of a sudden, he flip flops on DH (after voting for him, and saying how certain he is that this is DH's baddie game). He says "if DH turns up bad I'll have my eye on a few". Why would he suddenly wonder, when he was sure previously?

And now suddenly he's off DH, and is on about Spaghetti, but also likes LT's case on BWT.

Votes BWT, and wants Spaghetti looked at more tomorrow. Now I guess He-Man's totally done suspecting DH?

There's a sentence in this post that strikes me as funny: "As to why I voted DH I honestly thought he was bad, he never made any real on topic effort all his posts were of a jokey funny way, and he pinged me." Yes, but by looking at He-Man's posts, DH must have only pinged very suddenly and for like... 5 minutes.

I had been pinged by He-Man previously, but after my re-read... I'm pretty sure I know where my vote will be going today.

Lots of linki...

Then she posts this massive case. Which is a very good one, honestly.

*votes He-Man*


The more you post, the more sure I am.

This is her next post. She certainly jumped big time from just re-reading to being sure that He-Man is bad.

*votes He-Man*


The more you post, the more sure I am.

So we're not even 6 hours into a 48 hour period and you vote. Jeeesh.

Why are you trying to stop conversation. Shall we all vote now and just stay quiet for the next 40 hours?

Yes, please stop all conversation - I DEMAND IT! Ya big goof.

I'm not going to have very much time to mafia today or tomorrow, I'm sure, so I voted. I would seriously encourage other civs to vote the same way. Your defense is extremely superficial, and doesn't actually address or explain any of the real issues I see with your posts in this game.

Again, just as a reminder, I do not want anything bad to happen to YOU. I just want your role gone.

Then this is her next post. What's particularly interesting here is the bolded. She says she wants his role gone. So all of a sudden she knows his role?

Even though I think Spaghetti bears some looking into I think He-Man is bad and attempted to divert us from looking at him. I was going to pull posts but indiglo beat me to that - I may still find some things to add to her case.

Then JC posts she is suspicious of He-Man and that indiglo beat her to examining full posts.

If He-Man is bad he is much more likely to be on The Horde since he voted to tie Boomslang with blindfaeth Day 1 and appears to have been hexed by Snake Mountain (I doubt they'd hex one of their own). I need to go back and see how he responded to the case against BWT.

This got me thinking. Why wouldn't they hex one of their own? When it comes to insanification and silencing we've seen many baddie teams who have done it to one of their own to try and take suspicion off that person or to protect them from getting voted for. So if it happens with those powers, and I'm sure others that I'm forgetting here, why not hex your own too?

Then this. A very valid point, one I echoed later on when I posted.

FWIW I agree with the He-Man case, thats probably where my vote will go, and I'll have to vote soon (re: leaving on the cruise). It was nice to see indi sort of "step up" and I've been getting good vibes from her.

If He-Man is bad he is much more likely to be on The Horde since he voted to tie Boomslang with blindfaeth Day 1 and appears to have been hexed by Snake Mountain (I doubt they'd hex one of their own). I need to go back and see how he responded to the case against BWT.

This got me thinking. Why wouldn't they hex one of their own? When it comes to insanification and silencing we've seen many baddie teams who have done it to one of their own to try and take suspicion off that person or to protect them from getting voted for. So if it happens with those powers, and I'm sure others that I'm forgetting here, why not hex your own too?

^This. I think he could swing either way, tbh. The most difficult thing to explain is the vote for me to tie me up with boomslang. But if you'll recall, Roxy threw away her vote. Listen up guys, this is kinda important. One thing I definitely learned from gaining the staff of the people's voice is that there are vote manipulations in this game beyond Skeletor's Hex, and I suspect most of it lies with the baddies/indy's, since Madame Razz is the only civvie with secrets. I wouldn't put it past a relic or technology to grant extra votes or something either. Anyway, point being, it wouldn't surprise me if Roxy's role threw an extra vote on me Day 1 or something, expecting Boomslang to survive a tied lynch, not realizing that others have vote manipulations as well.

Anyway, He-Man is just pinging me, posting defenses pre-emptively, it just tells the tale of a worried baddie who thinks he's a goner before everyone else has even decided where to cast their vote.

Linki w/ Kate

Then BF posts this. The bolded is of note here, I thought this was an interesting observation.

It should be VERY obvious that He-Man's vote for me is forced.

LT, just trying to understand, can you explain who this was directed to? Because I don't see who was talking about his forced vote, or why this is relevant I guess.

A couple of people have mentioned it during the last day and again this day period - that his vote for me is suspect. He was very obvious about being forced to vote me last lynch so I thought I would point that out.

I am still not convinced that He-Man is a baddie, tbqh. He has responded to everything, his answers make sense. Considering how many times he gets lynched as a civvie, it makes me more cautious where he is concerned. Also, Indiglo's case on him included stuff that He-Man has already responded to. So....

I still want to hear from Dom. He was reading this thread yesterday and I am pretty sure he saw my post. Also, Aceofspaces - where the heck is he?

You are free to disagree, I have no problem with that. However I will say that his responses have not been satisfactory to me personally. They have been extremely superficial imo and have not addressed the real issues I see with him - repeated contradictions since day 1, his incredibly opportunistic sudden 5 minute suspicion of DH when MP was forced to vote him, andan ongoing list of names of "suspects" with no real substance to any of them (among other things). In fact, when I have more time (probably on Friday), I am planning to go back through his posts again and write down all the names he listed. I think we will find some interesting things there, more than likely.

I have no further questions for you He-Man, and I'm sorry if me calling you a "goof" upset you. That was not my intention. I just want to repeat again that I do not dislike you or want you out of the game - I happen to think you are mafia, so for that reason I believe your role needs to be eliminated. I see a pattern of behavior here that reads mafia, that's all.

Another thing I noticed - after me posting a case on He-Man, a couple of people suddenly come out of the woodwork saying I pinged them. Granted, that could be genuine, but it seems like more than a coincidence to me - and I think some of those "pinged people" were simply riding the coattails of other players. So that may give us some other places to look too.

Then indiglo posts about He-Man again. Further trying to emphasize that He-Man is bad and not responding satisfactorily.

I think indi's case pretty much covered the things that have bothered me about He Man. There are a couple of things I want to mention though that pinged me that might be similar to hers. I was really pinged on Day 0 (i think it was 0) by He-Man's vote for that Battle Ram. Several people, MP first I guess, did an excellent job with the math that showed which machines would be the best and I can understand voting every other one except that one. It looks to me like a baddie team spreading out their votes to be sure and hit every one of the choices. He Man I know you said you just thought it would be fun but as someone pointed out earlier, that would make sense if it were real life but not in a pretend world. Is there any other explanation I might have missed?

I also don't understand the DH vote. That day you listed your suspicions at 8:12 am (these are all est so I know for you there is about a 5 hour difference) and DH wasn't there. Then at 12:42 you said he was probably in the horde. And then you say DH is playing his baddie game and voted him at 5:08. At 5:32 you went to bed with "Off to bead, good luck with the lynch civvs". What happened between that first post where you listed suspicions and the second post where you mention DH who was not mentioned on the first post? Also, this may be a small thing but I was pinged by the way you signed off "good luck with the lynch civvs". It sounded like you were talking to a group of people of which you were not a part. Like i say, a small ping but it bothers me.

And finally, and I think indi pointed this out I'm pinged by how you are all over the place in your suspicions. Russ even remarked that your posts read like a list of names. Just in the last day or so since this suspicion came up you've thrown out SE and just recently DP - it feels like you've been throwing out names to see if someone would stick. I have generally seen you have a suspicion and stick to it at least until you see proof that you are wrong when you are civv.

At this point, He Man is where I'm leaning for a vote.

Another post by JC. More evidence as to why He-Man is bad and says she is leaning He-Man.

Ill easy my hat if hemans not bad. On the cruise, gotta vote now

Then BF votes and says he'll eat his hat if He-Man's not bad. That seems to indicate a strong level of confidence.

Meaning that if he was throwing Boomslang under the bus, he's a cold blooded evil genius.

I dont think he would do that, not on day one.

Unless.....he voted accidentally for the wrong one (they were next to each other I think) and then posted with his reason.

I think it's likely something happened that lynch, like they expected someone or ones to vote who didn't or some other mishap. I think He Man was also hexed by his own team which means I see He Man as more of a Snake Mountain than a Hoard. I could be wrong about that though, I can never be 100% certain. I do feel He Man is bad though.

Then people were suggesting which team He-Man must be on. Some speculated Horde made more sense. JC said this. Very interesting, especially the bolded.

OK, does it feel like the baddies are rushing in here to try to start voting wagons on civs or am I just going nuts?

I quite agree that it seems that way. Part of the reason I went ahead and cast my vote is to try to counteract the bandwagon effect.

I am not a baddie. I just have a belief He Man is bad.

Then JC votes He-Man and then posts that she has a belief He-Man is bad.

It may seem odd but I think He Man is on a crafty team that has made him look bullet proof. I do think I will vote him tomorrow unless someone else confesses in the thread or i die tonight because of him.

Also, just to clarify, I am not saying He Man made a mistake when he voted Boomslang.

Here's where JC really seems to indicate she has outside knowledge that He-Man is specifically on Snake Mountain.

It may seem odd but I think He Man is on a crafty team that has made him look bullet proof. I do think I will vote him tomorrow unless someone else confesses in the thread or i die tonight because of him.

Can you give any explanation as to why you think that?

Just that I worked backwards from everything i saw in the thread that convinced me he was bad and then went to the things that made him look not bad. The two things that I found were that he was hexed and that he cast the tying vote in the Boomslang/BF vote. FH's post reminded me that the hex could have easily been put on him by his own team but what about that earlier vote? I finally decided that something had happened there that was not expected, because I certainly don't think the team would have sacrificed Boomslang and I still believed He Man was bad.

I don't expect that everyone will see this my way but I feel strongly about it and wanted to throw it out there if nothing else for people to think about.

When asked to explain, JC says she has a strong feeling about it. Those who play games with JC know that if she says she has a strong feeling about something she does not take that declaration lightly.

MP it is really the totality of the evidence for me on He Man, starting with that vote for Battle Ram. If you guys had not approached it and laid it out so scientifically I might not be pinged by that vote but as it was there was no reason to vote Battle Ram, and I think the reason He Man gives (he wanted to have some fun) just doesn't make sense. The other thing that looms large to me is how he man has skipped around for so many people which is not the way his civvie game is. Think about it, have you seen him do this in any other game where he was civ? He generally has a suspicion and lasy on that hard as I learned the hard way in West Wing. The best example of this is where he starts with a list of people at the beginning of the day and by midday he's talking about someone completely different (DH). He doesn't even say "Oh, I left him off my list this morning". Plus, he was one of those that voted DH after everyone already knew you got hexed and that's why you voted DH. There is more evidence but those things stand out to me as I read through him. I can also see him on either team - Snake Mountain if something went haywire with their vote or Hoard because it would be easy to slip in among BWT voters.

I'm not saying don't vote Dom tonight. I think we might be in a position where we have two baddies up for consideration. I'm just passionate about my belief here.

I asked JC to elaborate as to what she feels most strongly about with He-Man and this is her response. She says she feels passionately about all of this evidence. And THEN....

I assume you think HeMan is a horde member?

Actually, my guess is the opposite.

indiglo posts this. Now she seems like she is insinuating He-Man is on Snake Mountain as well, very specifically.

Summary post to follow....

[Tangrowth]

SUMMARY:
Now that was a ton of posts, sorry, but I really wanted to highlight how the He-Man suspicion developed and how he was lynched, even though many were surprised he flipped bad, and especially Snake Mountain.

You can see how those three individuals very much seemed to have strong confidence in their assertions. It's really, in combination with my gut feelings on He-Man, what pushed me and probably others over the edge to vote for He-Man and resulted in his demise.

Now, I can think of two explanations for this behavior. One of which is a civvie explanation, that perhaps one of them is a role-checker or won some sort of info (maybe BF won it from his staff) and they have BTSC. I know it's bad to point these kind of things out, but 1) I'm not sure this is the case at all, and 2) these posters were very clearly stating their opinions to get He-Man lynched and seem to align themselves with each other clearly as well.

The other explanation clicked with me when I was busy re-reading all of the Day 6 posts. I remember when both timmer seemed hexed to vote BF and BF seemed hexed to vote for me and I was freaking out as to what was going on, and BF pointed out to me that because of a power on Horde's team (Leech) that there could be 2 hexes. That made logical sense to me. But that would mean Horde would know who Skeletor is, if that were the case, right?

Maybe the Horde knew He-Man was Tri-Klops for the very same reason, saw he had an impeccable game and was fooling others, and wanted to get rid of him for that reason? They could have NKed him, sure, but why do that when you can lynch him and gain civvie cred?

I'm not convinced that is the case here, especially since I have been reading BF as civvie for most of the game as well as juliets (and not sure on indiglo), but something is obviously up and this explanation would make sense. It's possible that even all three could be on The Horde, or that one or two of them are and are hoodwinking the others, or that none of them are Horde and they are all civvies. What does everyone think here?

I want to hear what any or all of the three have them have to say as well. How did you guys arrive at your strong suspicions of He-Man and that he was likely Snake Mountain?

[LittleTiger]

We are on the exact same page, MP! Let's see what they have to say....

[Tangrowth]

I know that's a lot to discuss right there, but I also have one other topic point. Is it possible that other remaining baddies are in the low posters and/or those who have been following the thread in suspicions, regardless of whether they are new or not? DFaraday, Dom, Stormcrow, and even complete no-shows like the_untamed and Ishar come to mind. There are others as well. Or are most/all of these civvie? Or do people have specific reads on these people individually?

Do people think that Dom still might be a legitimate case even though it seems the push against him was contrary to the He-Man one? Why has he still not come back to defend himself?

Since I'm past my studying prime for the day (I am not an evening person), I might go and skim over some of the lower poster's post content as well.

I will be out of town starting tomorrow night through Tuesday afternoon, and then I have a concert Tuesday night (Animal Collective!!!) and then I work Wednesday-Friday and have a somewhat busy week/weekend, and then Yes concert that Sunday, so I'm trying to take advantage of the downtime. I should still have time to contribute during those times, obviously, though.

[Snow Dog]

I know that's a lot to discuss right there, but I also have one other topic point. Is it possible that other remaining baddies are in the low posters and/or those who have been following the thread in suspicions, regardless of whether they are new or not? DFaraday, Dom, Stormcrow, and even complete no-shows like the_untamed and Ishar come to mind. There are others as well. Or are most/all of these civvie? Or do people have specific reads on these people individually?

Do people think that Dom still might be a legitimate case even though it seems the push against him was contrary to the He-Man one? Why has he still not come back to defend himself?

Since I'm past my studying prime for the day (I am not an evening person), I might go and skim over some of the lower poster's post content as well.

I will be out of town starting tomorrow night through Tuesday afternoon, and then I have a concert Tuesday night (Animal Collective!!!) and then I work Wednesday-Friday and have a somewhat busy week/weekend, and then Yes concert that Sunday, so I'm trying to take advantage of the downtime. I should still have time to contribute during those times, obviously, though.

I hope so. Your posts are invariably interesting with great insight. Don't know Animal Collective but am a huge Yes fan (you probably know that). Hope you enjoy the show.

[indiglo]

I am curious if those people who were suspicious of Dom are still suspicious of him, or if that was simply a way to prevent He-Man from getting lynched, or distract attention away from him. For having so many people on board with his lynch yesterday... he has not been mentioned even once so far today. I do find that interesting.

MoPi, I am not entirely certain how I can respond to you or answer your questions within game play parameters. You came up with various scenarios of how some people could be in agreement with certain suspicions... you are just focusing on the wrong one. I want all mafia roles gone, and when it seems apparent to me that someone is a mafia role... yes, I want their role gone. I was not trying to align myself "obviously" or "clearly" with anyone. I just wanted to portray how strong my feelings were during that lynch, and though I knew it was a risk, it was a risk I was willing to take.

How did you feel about those pushing for Dom yesterday? How did you feel about the Dom case? I would like to know why he hasn't been mentioned today?


Enjoy your concert!

[Tangrowth]

I know that's a lot to discuss right there, but I also have one other topic point. Is it possible that other remaining baddies are in the low posters and/or those who have been following the thread in suspicions, regardless of whether they are new or not? DFaraday, Dom, Stormcrow, and even complete no-shows like the_untamed and Ishar come to mind. There are others as well. Or are most/all of these civvie? Or do people have specific reads on these people individually?

Do people think that Dom still might be a legitimate case even though it seems the push against him was contrary to the He-Man one? Why has he still not come back to defend himself?

Since I'm past my studying prime for the day (I am not an evening person), I might go and skim over some of the lower poster's post content as well.

I will be out of town starting tomorrow night through Tuesday afternoon, and then I have a concert Tuesday night (Animal Collective!!!) and then I work Wednesday-Friday and have a somewhat busy week/weekend, and then Yes concert that Sunday, so I'm trying to take advantage of the downtime. I should still have time to contribute during those times, obviously, though.

I hope so. Your posts are invariably interesting with great insight. Don't know Animal Collective but am a huge Yes fan (you probably know that). Hope you enjoy the show.

Thanks!

Yes is really brilliant, am I right? I mean, you can't beat The Yes Album through Going for the One, what a string of albums! Especially CTTE, TFTO, and Relayer. So I am so stoked about that one, especially since Yes is one of the first prog bands (and bands in general) I got into.

As to Animal Collective.... they are quite different than Yes but no less good. It's really hard to summarize them through just a few songs, but I'll try to restrict myself. I am such a huge fanboy of Animal Collective; hands down they might be my favorite 'modern' music act. Just in case you're curious, here is one song from their last four albums each (their four golden albums, IMO):









I'll stop spamming the game thread now.

Linkitis with indi: Let me read this and respond to it in the next post to keep mafia and OT talk separate.

[Epignosis]

An Animal Collective song I most definitely approve of:

[thellama73]

RIP AATB, and welcome back DH!

Interesting stuff, MP. A lot to digest. I still think Dom is likely ba, but recent events have brought other people onto my radar as well.

[Tangrowth]

I am curious if those people who were suspicious of Dom are still suspicious of him, or if that was simply a way to prevent He-Man from getting lynched, or distract attention away from him. For having so many people on board with his lynch yesterday... he has not been mentioned even once so far today. I do find that interesting.

MoPi, I am not entirely certain how I can respond to you or answer your questions within game play parameters. You came up with various scenarios of how some people could be in agreement with certain suspicions... you are just focusing on the wrong one. I want all mafia roles gone, and when it seems apparent to me that someone is a mafia role... yes, I want their role gone. I was not trying to align myself "obviously" or "clearly" with anyone. I just wanted to portray how strong my feelings were during that lynch, and though I knew it was a risk, it was a risk I was willing to take.

How did you feel about those pushing for Dom yesterday? How did you feel about the Dom case? I would like to know why he hasn't been mentioned today?


Enjoy your concert!

That is interesting. As for me personally, I do think the points made against Dom seemed legitimate, and he might still be bad for all I know. It's hard to say since we have so little to go off of. I am curious if others feel the same about him as well as they did yesterday.

I appreciate the response, but it doesn't really answer my question too well. Sure, everyone can claim that, and I'm glad you, JC, and BF did us a service of getting rid of He-Man, especially since he is someone whose name has been thrown around by many people ever since I first went after him on Day 1, but the Horde and the civvies would have a mutual interest in ridding the game of He-Man, correct? Especially since it means it's yet another lynch that they seem to evade attention, and here we are again, somewhat or even mostly at square one, IMO, in that we've been successful with BWT but there could be and are likely 5 Horde members out there. I really feel like they should be the primary focus, as great as it is that Snake Mountain has been mostly obliterated.

I feel good about those pushing Dom yesterday in general, particularly llama and LT who have seemed civvie to me for quite a long time. Why, do you think they are not trustworthy, or that they might be bad and hoodwinking us? What say you?

I could be getting fooled, but occam's razor has suggested to me that certain few people are worthy of trust this game and I think thread evidence supports that. That being said, as I mentioned above, for some reason I feel we are at square one in some ways now, after He-Man was revealed Snake Mountain and I look at the player list and I wonder who could be those remaining Horde and SM members. As to the Dom case specifically, I don't know. I mean, I can see a scenario in which he is bad, but is he? I don't know the answer to that question. As to why he hasn't been mentioned yet, IDK, but the day just started practically. But I mentioned him in an attempt to get discussion going just above if you will see, in an attempt to see how others feel just like you were here.

[Tangrowth]

And I meant to say, thanks, indi! I am certain I will enjoy both concerts, definitively. I will actually be out of town from Sunday through Tuesday afternoon with Spacedaisy to visit some of her relatives.

It has been an amazing year for concerts thus far. I have been keeping myself very busy with studying and my free time has been nearly entirely consumed by this game (and Daisy and my family), but concerts are the remaining free time eaters. It was Morrissey in January, then Meshuggah and Animals as Leaders last month, with Tenacious D this past week, then Animal Collective and Yes next week, and then Sigur Ros on April 1st and Beach House and The Flaming Lips later in April, and then The XX and Grizzly Bear in June. Don't have tickets to Flaming Lips or XX yet, but I'm likely to get them as I would love to attend both of those. Lots of awesomeness to go around and my busiest six month period with regards to concerts easily. It's making my wallet cry a bit, but totally worth it!

And on the subject of the damn CPA exam, I still haven't seen my Regulation score! I really hope it comes soon. And preparing for Financial is driving me nuts! It's scheduled for April 10th and I don't even feel close to being ready. But I'll get there.

An Animal Collective song I most definitely approve of:

This makes me happy. Definitely one of my favorites from them as well, though I know your opinion of them is more unfavorable than mine, to say the least, lol.

[indiglo]

Well, fair enough, MoPi. I don't know if I can trust LT and Llama. Sometimes I feel like I can, then other times I feel like I can't. Hopefully more light will be shed as time goes on.

I'm certain that doesn't answer your question. I am not mafia, but you can believe that or not. And if you're mafia, you'll know it's true, but choose to not believe it in the thread to get rid of me. I've flip flopped on you all game too. I can't control what you believe, and I know what my role is.

I decided to switch up my game play this game and play things a little closer to the vest, which was something LT and I discussed briefly during our brief BTSC in the last game. But once I have something worth sharing, I'm still going to share it. That's what I did.

I agree with you - both the Horde and the civs would like to get rid of Snake Mountain. And I agree with you again - I'd much prefer to have nabbed a Horde member yesterday too. I'd prefer to get a Horde member today too. That will not happen if you look at me, I can promise you that. Like you, I am frustrated at having nearly eliminated Snake Mountain, and barely having touched the Horde.

I'm not sure what you want to hear from here? Role out myself? I didn't orchestrate anything, and again - you can believe that or not.

I don't mean that sound flippant, but it is what is MoPi. You have your role, and I have mine. If we aren't on the same side, your case does not surprise me or bother me.

[thellama73]

I don't know if I can trust LT and Llama. Sometimes I feel like I can, then other times I feel like I can't. Hopefully more light will be shed as time goes on.

No need to wait, I can tell you right now. You can trust me. You can trust me like crazy.

[Tangrowth]

Well, fair enough, MoPi. I don't know if I can trust LT and Llama. Sometimes I feel like I can, then other times I feel like I can't. Hopefully more light will be shed as time goes on.

I'm certain that doesn't answer your question. I am not mafia, but you can believe that or not. And if you're mafia, you'll know it's true, but choose to not believe it in the thread to get rid of me. I've flip flopped on you all game too. I can't control what you believe, and I know what my role is.

I decided to switch up my game play this game and play things a little closer to the vest, which was something LT and I discussed briefly during our brief BTSC in the last game. But once I have something worth sharing, I'm still going to share it. That's what I did.

I agree with you - both the Horde and the civs would like to get rid of Snake Mountain. And I agree with you again - I'd much prefer to have nabbed a Horde member yesterday too. I'd prefer to get a Horde member today too. That will not happen if you look at me, I can promise you that. Like you, I am frustrated at having nearly eliminated Snake Mountain, and barely having touched the Horde.

I'm not sure what you want to hear from here? Role out myself? I didn't orchestrate anything, and again - you can believe that or not.

I don't mean that sound flippant, but it is what is MoPi. You have your role, and I have mine. If we aren't on the same side, your case does not surprise me or bother me.

Why don't you know? Do you not think their intentions have seemed civvie-minded? Lest you forget LT and I are the main reasons BWT was even lynched, otherwise we might be looking at 6 Horde members right now.

I am not a baddie. As should be obvious, I'm a civvie trying to hunt out every baddie on each team so we can win, and so far we have done an absolutely fantastic job -- no civvie lynch yet AT ALL and we are at Day 7. I can't remember the last game I played with that kind of record, but then again I can't remember the last game I played with 6 baddies on each team as well. But, anyway, to keep up that standard, I feel I need to engage myself and everyone around me and consider every scenario. Can you not see how any one or all of you three would seem like likely Horde members after the previous lynch? I wouldn't say what you did yesterday even comes close to paying close to the vest, but I can understand your desire to rid He-Man, whether you are civvie or Horde.

I certainly don't want you to role out yourself. I'm not sure I believe you, but I do appreciate the response, so thank you.

[Tangrowth]

^^ Of course by "paying" close to the vest, I meant "playing". Lol.

[Tangrowth]

Also... anyone notice that the thread title says Night 7 instead of Day 7?

[reywaS]

Lots to think about today. I'll get more in depth about suspicions tomorrow as I am quite tired at the moment. A couple of quick thoughts before I go to sleep...

Still not convinced Timmer isnt bad. His earlier post seemed quite suspicious...I can't remember off top who exactly it was that he was responding to, but he insinuated that he should get civvie cred because he was suspicious early on of He-Man. That does nothing for me because as I pointed out it always seemed more likely that Timmer was Horde rather than Snake Mountain.

I'm still highly suspicious of Dom for the reasons I pointed out yesterday. I also think that MP's thoughts on the quiet players being Horde members has merit. That could very well be the reason we only lynched one Horde member so far. I think it would be unlikely that all of the Horde members are of course.

[Snow Dog]

I don't know if I can trust LT and Llama. Sometimes I feel like I can, then other times I feel like I can't. Hopefully more light will be shed as time goes on.

No need to wait, I can tell you right now. You can trust me. You can trust me like crazy.

I trust you. I am almost sure you are a civvie. Don't know why. Gut feeling I guess. As to the Dom question, I think he was a legitimate target. The bandwagon may have been started by a mafia, but to me the arguments seemed persuasive and at the time, doubts had began to settle in my mind about He_man. LT effectively dismissed my arguments and I foolishly listened to him.

That is why I tried to tie the vote. I wasn't absolutely sure about either.

And unless Dom defends himself today I see know reason not to vote him again. But I am open to persuasion.

[Snow Dog]

^On second thoughts, if I was just following a mafia bandwagon then the Dom case needs to be re-evaluated.

[Epignosis]

Also... anyone notice that the thread title says Night 7 instead of Day 7?

No it doesn't...what are you are talking about?

[juliets]

MP, regarding your question about how I came to see He Man as suspicious, I had first noticed him with that vote for Battle Ram that happened in the beginning of the game and because I was having trouble tracking his suspicions. When indi posted, I read and saw the same types of things that I had been noticing and her thoughts were so similar to mine it gave me more confidence that my thoughts were more than just pings. Making me even more confident was BF's feelings that He Man was bad, as I believe BF to be civv. But don't get me wrong - it wasn't just because they believed - my own beliefs were strong enough that others thoughts just helped give me the confidence to speak out.

I'm not the Hoard though I do understand you have to consider that possibility. I voted for BWT who was Hoard. There's really no way to "prove" that I'm not Hoard at this point but I haven't done anything that would say I'm not civv either.

As for right now, the people I want to look back at are llama, LT, and maybe Kate. It just felt obvious to me that their votes came in an attempt to save He Man. Their voting started after He Man had 3 votes. I was feeling civ about LT up until that time and have been neutral on llama and Kate so I really want to look back and consider the game as a whole. The problem is if I'm right about them it doesn't help at all in getting the Hoard.

As I said during the vote, people voting for Dom to attempt to save He Man doesn't mean Dom isn't bad. I don't know why Dom wouldn't have come forward to defend himself which pings me but at the same time I know he's busy at school. So bottom line, the jury is out on him today for me. I'm hoping the people who voted for him yesterday will talk a little more about him today.

The quiet ones do bother me. Not so much the quiet ones who aren't voting because they aren't affecting us one way or another. But the quiet people who are voting or voting most of the time make me nervous. The problem of course is there is not a lot to make a vote on.

So my mind is open for people who might be Hoard members or thoughts others have on who we should concentrate on today.

[juliets]

Sorry i forgot to welcome DH back and say RIPIYWG to AATB, and I had no reason to think he wasn't good. But why AATB?? I'm sure we'll all read back over his posts to see if we can isolate anything that would make the Hoard kill him but I sure don't remember anything without reading back.

[Kate]

JC, if you recall I thought heman was bad in the beginning but was convinced i was wrong because of a very crafty move.

I started to believe you and indi were civ until you turned your accusations to LT, llama and me. LT and llama, imo, are civs and I wonder why it is you would say this without acknowledging that what heman did was very misleading to civs with no info. so, you are either a civ with info or a baddie, either way you should understand why civs would easily think that heman was good. since you don't, it makes me think you are the latter.

[Tangrowth]

Lots to think about today. I'll get more in depth about suspicions tomorrow as I am quite tired at the moment. A couple of quick thoughts before I go to sleep...

Still not convinced Timmer isnt bad. His earlier post seemed quite suspicious...I can't remember off top who exactly it was that he was responding to, but he insinuated that he should get civvie cred because he was suspicious early on of He-Man. That does nothing for me because as I pointed out it always seemed more likely that Timmer was Horde rather than Snake Mountain.

I'm still highly suspicious of Dom for the reasons I pointed out yesterday. I also think that MP's thoughts on the quiet players being Horde members has merit. That could very well be the reason we only lynched one Horde member so far. I think it would be unlikely that all of the Horde members are of course.

You do have a valid point regarding Timmer. I still have him pegged as likely Zodac, but if he is Modulok, then he's just getting more powerful every lynch we don't look at him. I'm not sure that's the case, but it's a possibility.

You know, with regards to the quiet players, I think I'm going to go back and look at them this morning and see which ones seem suspicious and might be connected with BWT.

MP, regarding your question about how I came to see He Man as suspicious, I had first noticed him with that vote for Battle Ram that happened in the beginning of the game and because I was having trouble tracking his suspicions. When indi posted, I read and saw the same types of things that I had been noticing and her thoughts were so similar to mine it gave me more confidence that my thoughts were more than just pings. Making me even more confident was BF's feelings that He Man was bad, as I believe BF to be civv. But don't get me wrong - it wasn't just because they believed - my own beliefs were strong enough that others thoughts just helped give me the confidence to speak out.

I'm not the Hoard though I do understand you have to consider that possibility. I voted for BWT who was Hoard. There's really no way to "prove" that I'm not Hoard at this point but I haven't done anything that would say I'm not civv either.

As for right now, the people I want to look back at are llama, LT, and maybe Kate. It just felt obvious to me that their votes came in an attempt to save He Man. Their voting started after He Man had 3 votes. I was feeling civ about LT up until that time and have been neutral on llama and Kate so I really want to look back and consider the game as a whole. The problem is if I'm right about them it doesn't help at all in getting the Hoard.

As I said during the vote, people voting for Dom to attempt to save He Man doesn't mean Dom isn't bad. I don't know why Dom wouldn't have come forward to defend himself which pings me but at the same time I know he's busy at school. So bottom line, the jury is out on him today for me. I'm hoping the people who voted for him yesterday will talk a little more about him today.

The quiet ones do bother me. Not so much the quiet ones who aren't voting because they aren't affecting us one way or another. But the quiet people who are voting or voting most of the time make me nervous. The problem of course is there is not a lot to make a vote on.

So my mind is open for people who might be Hoard members or thoughts others have on who we should concentrate on today.

Okay, I understand all of that. I wasn't getting too warm fuzzy feelings from He-Man either. I think where it just throws me is where all three of you seemed to insinuate at some point, indiglo most strongly, that he could be or is likely on Snake Mountain. I mean, sure, it was a possibility, but I don't know. Are you saying you just came to that conclusion as a possibility and that he could have been Horde as well? Because indiglo didn't seem to think that. Do you think she or BF might be Horde or no?

Are you looking at LT, llama, and Kate mostly because of their votes yesterday? Let me know what you find on them. I trust LT and llama more so but I am open to the possibility I am being seriously hoodwinked -- and it would have to be seriously hoodwinked since they do not seem baddie to me. Kate I think might be civvie but I am less sure of her.

The bolded I found interesting. Why would you not care as much about the quiet ones who aren't voting? I mean, I know that means they aren't affecting lynches, but what if they are still affecting night actions? I'm not sure I even believe that, but it's a certain possibility.

Sorry i forgot to welcome DH back and say RIPIYWG to AATB, and I had no reason to think he wasn't good. But why AATB?? I'm sure we'll all read back over his posts to see if we can isolate anything that would make the Hoard kill him but I sure don't remember anything without reading back.

I was wondering that too, so I went back and looked at AATB's posts. Nothing too special, really, though it does seem he aligned himself with LT particularly strong during yesterday's lynch. That's about all I found specifically in his posts, but I could have missed something. Personally, I was reading him as civvie-minded. Even though it was his first mafia game, I know him well IRL, so I tried using that as some sort of basis. That being said, I could be wrong, but the numbers agree with me and say he was likely civvie. Why would The Horde kill one of their own? By my count, there are only likely 2 or worst case scenario 3 Snake Mountain members left.

[>SpaghettiEverywhere]

You and your huge posts, MP
As for thoughts on the Dom votes, I don't know if i necessarily see dom as bad, but then again, he hasn't posted anything in a very long time and that makes it hard for me to make a decision on. And for others, I think I think MP is right about timmer being either Zodak or Modulok. I still think BF needs looking in to because of He-Man's vote to tie between Boomslang and BF. I'm also going to be looking into indiglo because you seem so certain BF is civ, and i'm not so sure thats the case

[juliets]

MP, I believed that He Man could be either Hoard or Snake Mountain. I could see an argument both ways. Regarding your question about indiglo, I'm missing a link somewhere on how thinking He Man was Snake Mountain would mean she was a Hoard or maybe that's not what you're saying. I don't think either indiglo or BF are Hoard.

With regards to the quiet people, my thought process is that the people who are completely silent - not voting, not talking - are unlikely to affect us because they seem completely absent. I do understand what you're saying, that they or their teammates could be sending in the night abilities. When I put forth my thought I was thinking it would be unlikely if they are completely absent that they are doing their night abilities but I did not consider their teammates doing it for them if Epig allows that. I guess that thought takes me back to sqaure 1, any of them could be dangerous.

Oh and on my suspicions, the timing of the votes for Dom and some of the conversation surrounding the vote (I'll have to pull quotes later) is what brought my suspicions to a head but I know I was pinged by something else as well. I just need to do my review.

And yes, I agree i don't see the Hoard killing one of their own in AATB. I'm starting to wonder if he was just a good kill for them because they knew he wasn't one of them, he hadn't really brought up anyone as suspicious, so he was a "safe" kill. No way to trace him back to one of them. Just a thought.

I'll have to do my re-read later because I've got some things going on but I'll post again at that point. I really don't like the feeling that those of us who are talking have targets on our head while the quiet ones don't but again, I just don't know what to do about that.

[Tangrowth]

That moment when you are pulling quotes and analyzing all of this information/posts from the low posters this game and realizing you have wasted over an hour compiling an insanely long post.

Gotta love mafia. I am such an addict.

[Tangrowth]

Low posters:
Okay, here are our low posters. I took the bottom 7 since that's about 1/3 of the current players alive (there are 22 currently). The next highest are orsonkidd with 28 and DisgruntledPorcupine with 35, which is somewhat of a step up anyway as well.

>SpaghettiEverywhere 20
DFaraday 17
Dom 14
Stormcrow 13 (replaced JJLehto who had 2 posts, so 15 total for this role)
AceofSpaces 10
The-untamed 3 (replaced KeaponLaffin who had 0 posts)
Ishar Morrad Chuain 0

I'm going to look now and see what I find on each of them in order from least posts to most posts in the grouping, so from the-untamed through SE. Ishar has NO posts so obviously there's nothing on which to base any observations. I'll try and come up with some summary posts in a summary post after this one. If you don't want to see all of the post detail and/or specific detailed commentary, skip this post.

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1. The-untamed (3 posts)
Since there are ONLY 3 posts, I might as well post all three.

Hi all, i am new here and have no idea what to do!! hope to catch up soon enough

Here's her first post.

Hi all, i am new here and have no idea what to do!! hope to catch up soon enough

New here, new to mafia and even new to forums, right?

Then Snow Dog introduces that she's new to forums.

yes that is the case

OK. From reading through everything here have you formed any opinions? Do you have any idea who you want to lynch? Hard question I know.

Snow Dog then tries to get her engaged. She never responds to this.

i am new here and have no idea what to do!!

Trust no one, question everything, and be relentlessly paranoid. You'll do fine.

Thank you for the advice. Lynch... anyone who will cross my way

Then she says this in response to llama above.

Nothing notable, and apparently she hasn't logged in since February 27th, so she qualifies as no-show. If the baddies are allowed to send in her night powers for her, she could very well be on a baddie team, but there's really nothing to base that on. Although her last post here does seem kind of weird on reflection, lol.

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2. AceofSpaces (10 posts)

I am going to take the Stridor. It sounds awesome and it has special information that goes with it. Seems like an easy choice to me.

Ace's very first post actually makes him the very first Stridor rider.

Catching up. Sorry this is only my second post. I will get better as the game goes on.

Kind of an ironic post now that he hasn't been seen since Night 4.

I am going to be keeping a running list of my thoughts as I read through the thread.

I can't agree with Timmer more here. Honestly I was a bit of a shock to see this much talk on day one. It makes me very excited for the rest of the game.

thellamma brings this idea of picking off nonparticipants up a lot. I typically find this is something the mafia like to put out there, as it is easy to vote for someone who isn't playing. It gives them a reason to lynch a possible civie while still keeping their hands clean. I don't like it.


So I've read all the way through now. Here are my thoughts.

I don't think BF deserves a vote I am also not convinced to vote for He-Man. Right now it is between Boomslang, and thellama.

I am going to vote for thellamma.

He votes for llama on Day 1. Kind of an interesting choice, actually.

I Voted for LT. She was one of the people who came across as most civie during day one. At least to me she did.

Votes for LT for the shield poll on Night 1.

Sorry everyone, busy weekend for me. I'm going to go ahead and vote for Timmer, because based on my reading, I agree with the points against him. I most likely wont be around posting much this weekend and for that I apologize. I will do my best to stay caught up and when I do get some time I will post more.

Votes timmer on Day 2.

I really don't know who to vote for. I sure as hell am not going to vote for DH though, at least not because Skull Mountain wants me too.

I think I am going to vote for He-Man for following Skull Mountain's whims.

Specifically mentions that DH is a bad vote for Day 3. He votes He-Man instead, who we know now is Tri-Klops.

Shit, I am so sorry I missed the vote. It's been an exhausting couple of days. I would have probably voted for BWT.

Also, Happy Birthday to Epi's dad.

He missed the Day 4 vote and says he would have probably voted BWT. This is his last post.

This all says to me that Aces is not Snake Mountain, but he could be Horde or civvie. Probably worth an for the Horde possibility, but nothing strong.

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3. Stormcrow (13 posts)

Stormcrow replaces in for JJLehto on Day 3 and her posts are very low on content. This could easily be explained by the fact that she is completely new to mafia, but it's hard to get any read on her.

Hi, thank you for the welcome This is my first game.

By the way, welcome to stormcrow! Do you have any thoughts so far?

I don't know, really. I've only just started.

She doesn't really have any starting thoughts.

I'm going to vote for AllAlongtheBoardwalk and thellama73 because they were the first to volunteer.

Okay, makes sense, this is what most people decided to do.

Just read through the last few pages and I've nothing more to add than a few others have been saying. My vote is for birdwithteeth11

Votes BWT on Day 4 and also welcomes back llama (why post a separate post for that, this giant post of mine is already going to be long enough... right?)

She also voted for Sword in the weapon poll on Night 4.

I'm going to vote for BWT. Nothing new to add to reasons mentioned already.

Votes BWT again on Day 5.

I don't like the idea of voting for the baddies and I disagree with the theories posted. Therefore, I'm going to vote Etherian.

This is interesting; she seems to stray from the consensus here and votes Etherian for the Night 5 poll.

Linkitis with Stormcrow: There you are! Okay, you haven't responded to my previous attempt to get your thoughts. Anything? Any suspects or thoughts on Dom, He-Man (now dead), or whatever?

Sorry I missed the vote, I was at university and forgot about it. I wasn't sure who to vote for anyway. I don't know who to trust. Regarding He-Man, I was unsure about him.

She misses the Day 6 vote and then I call her out and this is her response.

I guess she could be a baddie on either team, it's hard to tell, especially since she's never played mafia before. I would guess maybe more likely she is a lone civvie, as she does not seem to indicate BTSC, but it's entirely possible she's a baddie. Deserves an , not sure how strong.

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4. Dom (14 posts)

I want the stridor.

Dom is a Stridor rider.

This is likely a chaotic discussion that the baddies are using against us.

He thinks the baddies are causing chaos on Day 1, and then He-Man chimes in and agrees.

Also, forgot to say, awesome picture, SE! Excited to have your picture story accompaniments again, and very well-done as usual.

This is likely a chaotic discussion that the baddies are using against us.

I agree with this we seem in the midst of chaos

Can either of you elaborate on this? I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say.

I'm saying that people trying to make the lynch completely based upon the Stridor vote... the difference between the two probabilities is pretty small and it's based upon many assumptions.... I don't know that this discussion is really based on anything but wild guesses and I'd like us all to remember that.

While at least two baddies are extremely likely to be in what I'll remind you is MY voting group, at the same time, there could easily be more. Ja feel?

I ask He-Man and Dom to elaborate on that previous post and he responds with this. Makes sense.

Not only is it offensive to those with disabilities and their loved ones, but it's disrespectful to all of your English teachers that of all the words and synonyms for stupid, you picked one of the most vulgar and vapid ones out there.

What a catch up this morning. I am not sure what to make of bf/rey tbh I think I need to go back and try and see what each is saying. Idk my initial thought was maybe they were misunderstanding each other (this is why I need to reread each of them to see exactly what they are saying.

I have already said what I think of MP/HeMan. Though I absolutely do not see where LT was in defense mode. I just seen her stating her opinion about the situation.

As for where my vote is going - still not real sure.

I don't like what I'm seeing of MP, but I'm liking what I'm seeing from BF even less. So I'm voting there..... I haven't seen anything suspicious from LT quite yet, and I think that MP and HE Man are being super weird.

Dom echoes timmer's thoughts on Day 1 (I cut that since it was so long) and then he says I and He-Man seem weird, but votes for BF.

Also:

not a lot of tine but a reread makes heman look like a good shot at a baddie to me.

voting heman

Hell-o pingalicious! I will be looking at Timmer next fo sure

Thought the same thing... Just wanted to echo the sentiment.

I don't think He-Man may be as baddie anymore, honestly. The way Boomslang and timmer latched onto that felt very baddie bandwagony to me and I'm beginning to think I'm on the wrong track with that one, just for those reasons.

We'll see how BF flips, but I also found FH's last-minute vote to put BF over Boomslang a bit pingy as well. While I thought the same exact thing about reptaronice's vote when I saw he voted without posting, it could be that she is pointing that out to avoid seeming Boomslang's teammate. But this is all assuming BF is good and Boomslang is bad.

Is your bike broken because you seem to be backpeddlin' pretty fast

He then argues I'm backpedaling about He-Man after the way the lynch went down. Then he agrees with Rox that timmer looks bad. But wait... he said timmer was making sense before?

You know, I read Dom's posts yesterday more quickly when considering that case, but this didn't strike me as weird at the time. It kind of does now.

Ok he voted for Boomslang. Which saved you blindfaeth and you are a civvie. You are right it makes no sense.

Bear in mind my newness to this but these were my thoughts.

1. Both Boomslang could have been baddies on different teams.

2. He - man could be on the same baddie team as blindfaeth

3. This is why he caused the tie, not aware that boomslang was also a baddie.

Does any of that make any sense to anyone? In theory I mean.

Tell us that you're new again, go ahead.


But ohhai n00b card

I let it go for awhile, but it's getting old. You have officially earned my


Not as much as timmer, though.

Snow Dog's vote for Timmer does nothing for me as far as making him seem civvie. I'm not sure why his early vote would make He-Man feel any better, if it really does. I could see him saying that trying to get Snow Dog to go ahead and throw a vote out there for Timmer after what Timmer said yesterday about voting first. Anyway, Timmer is clearly the leading candidate for this lynch...even before his lash out yesterday I would say he was the leading candidate. So Snow Dog's vote for Timmer could very easily be a vote for a team mate. I'm not saying that it definitely is, but Snow Dog's vote does not in any way make me think that they are definitely not team mates. And, like you FH, I could see all the questions that Snow Dog has been asking as a ploy to gain noob civvie cred. I will continue to watch Snow Dog for sure.

You guys look into this far more deeply than I do. I voted for timmer because everyone seemed to think he was a baddie. I simply don't know who else could be. Still learning the ropes but quickly learning that maybe the less you post the better.

*vote Timmer before I forget*


Timmer is acting like a cornered baddie who has no more options. . . I'm sorry I'm busy guys. I'll try and be around more once these few papers are done and such.

He votes timmer and eyes Snow Dog for being new big time, which is weird.

I conveniently remembered I was playing as I was unsilenced!

How could you forget you were playing? I still don't get this. I mean, I know he's busy, but that's just weird.

Oh, and I'm incredibly busy, but had I remembered I was playing, I would ahve likely voted DH... thought this information about KAte is interesting.

Wait, what?

I haven't gotten baddie vibes from Rey yet, so I voted for him and myself to get this thing?

I don't really understand this game, but it's okay!

He votes for himself and reywaS and says he doesn't understand the game. He's seemingly dropped suspicion of timmer and Snow Dog because he doesn't mention it again.

BWT also might've said something about LT being overly defensive because that's just the reason that she was suspected in Avant Garde 2.... and she was bad. So maybe he was just jumping on something hoping it'd stick?

Interesting observation about BWT.

Sorry for the lack of participation, I keep forgetting I'm playing. I'm having a hard time keeping up, but I'm gonna try my best

This is the last post we've seen from him, about 3 mafia days/nights ago.

Dom might be a pretty good candidate for a baddie on either team. He could also be a civvie, especially if he was a distractor in the last lynch. Not sure, but definitely an .

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5. DFaraday (17 posts)

Yay game!

Yes, I know it's not mathematically sound, but I went with Dragon Walker anyway. At the very least, I'm guaranteed 3 moves per roll (plus I'd feel bad if nobody picked it, haha).

Doesn't choose Stridor but is the only one to pick Dragon Walker.

Yay game!

Yes, I know it's not mathematically sound, but I went with Dragon Walker anyway. At the very least, I'm guaranteed 3 moves per roll (plus I'd feel bad if nobody picked it, haha).

No shame in that. there is a 50% chance of getting a 6 too. The attack trak has a 50% chance of getting a 6 or higher, though. It also has 20% chance to go slower than the dragon walker would on its worst roll.

I just dont think the wind walker makes sense over the attack trak. Sure, it can go 1 or 2 faster than the attack trak, but there is a 1 in 3 chance it doesn't move at all. Epig said we have 5 die rolls, so probably 1 or 2 if not more will be a 0~

I'll be honest, I don't think the Stridor has a chance in hell of getting there first, its main draw is the info drop.

Yeah, I feel like the info won't be anything particularly vital either, and I imagine if everyone gets the same info, it'll be in the thread soon enough anyway.

Thinks the info will be the same for every Stridor rider.

I see where BF is coming from, but I don't really agree. I don't think anyone should get a pass just because they voted for Stridor, but I also don't think we should vote anyone if the only reason is "they didn't vote Stridor".

Seems logical enough.

Aargh, I forgot about it this morning and just got home! I would have gone with BF, because he did seem to be trying to steer the lynch away from Stridor voters (including himself), and being overly aggressive, especially in voting for reywaS. But now that he's shared info I'm thinking I would have made a bad call if I had voted.

EBWOP: And I haven't seen Boomslang as being as pingy or defensive as some say, but I need to go back and read more.

Would have voted for BF and didn't see Boomslang as particularly pingy.

He posts another post responding to Russ and votes himself for the Night 1 shield poll.

Oh, and I do think a good hard look should be made at those who were trying to cast doubt on the rush of votes for LT being a baddie move. I noticed Boomslang and BWT were two who said that. Occam's razor suggests she is a civvie, it should be said. Of course, it could be a long con, and I'm open to that. But I'm not sure it is.

Sorry? Shouldn't we always be wary when there's an unexplained rush of votes for one person? I'm not saying LT is bad, but I don't see how it's at all suspicious to be pinged by people randomly voting for her. And I'm not just saying that because I was one of the ones pinged.

He responds to my concern with this.

To me, this just feels very much like trying to throw Snow Dog under the bus to deflect suspicion from himself. Coupled with his He-Man vote (whom, incidentally, I am thinking is civvie), as well as his utter lack of defense and vague threat, and Timmer is looking less civvie by the second. I suspect he could very well be indy, actually, given that the indies have secrets, and that may be what Timmer is alluding to.

Thinks He-Man is civvie and thinks timmer might be throwing Snow Dog under the bus.

But in all seriousness, I think Timmer or FH are good places to look today.

Do you have a suspicion of FH besides her previous vote? Just wondering.

Now Timmer is trying to backpedal, but his behavior has been really shady all the way through. Votes Timmer

I'm also rather pinged by Vomps randomly going for Snow Dog, but Vomps is a rather unpredictable guy. Will keep an eye there.

AllAlongtheBoardwalk, I for one find Russ to come across as rather sincere. And if he is bad, I don't think he's on a team with MP, since I probably feel more confident in MP being a civvie than anyone except myself.

More thoughts.

The one thing I do think is weird is your continuing belief in LT, given that no one has been able to give a better reason for their support of him besides "he seems like a civvie", either before or after the Night 1 vote. If someone could clear up for me what is so innocent about him I would be very grateful.

LT is a girl But I do agree that it's weird that people keep supporting LT and voting her in these challenges for no apparent reason than "she seems civvie". Which, incidentally, she seems exactly the same to me as she always does.

I am more inclined to think Timmer is an indy at this point, and am concerned as to whether we ought to keep trying to lynch him. But we'll see what happens with the previous lynch first.

*Votes Llama and Boardwalk* because this sounds potentially dangerous and they volunteered.

Is thinking Timmer is likely indy now. Agrees that it's weird LT is being supported.

It seems pretty evident to me what both LT and BWT's alliances are. BWT's responses trying to paint LT as bad or her vote as Skeletorified, as well as his flip floppyness that strikes me as insincere, and his buddying up to me (like Daisy did) only confirm to me that there is no way BWT is civvie this game. I would be very surprised if he flipped civvie at this point, especially as he has been off the mark for much of the game. I think he would be an excellent lynch candidate today.

I am also wondering what is going with DH. I've been thinking about why he would survive the Slime Pit and be apparently insanified and so upset. Has anyone considered that he may have been compromised? I know being insanified is frustrating, but for some reason I think there may be more to it.

Linki with LT: These are more great examples, thanks for providing these. There is a distinct difference between sinister and sincere 'flip flopping', if you will, and these only confirm further that BWT stinks of baddie. I was hoping I could re-read his posts and a few others' (as well as some or all of the thread) myself but naturally have not yet had time to. This weekend will be full of studying and continuing to play catch up (partially because work is busier all of a sudden), but I hopefully will be able to find and highlight some fishiness from any other players as well.

I'm glad other people have noticed BWT's flip-floppiness. To me he seems to just try to go along with whatever is the prevailing opinion at the moment, flying under the radar. He posts a lot, but it's almost always a parroting of what the most vocal players have said. I couldn't call him out on this yesterday for obvious reasons, but he's been mildly pinging me for a couple days now.

As for LT, I'm not sure why you say her alignment is obvious. She seems fairly ambiguous to me, as usual. Am I missing something?

Agrees with BWT. Then asks me about LT.

LT I'm feeling really good about you, I very much doubt your hexed and trust your case on BWT.

I will vote vote BWT I really don't like Timmers vote for BF and I would like spaghetti everywhere looked at more tomorrow.

Also, Dom and Dfaraday are quiet I know they're not normally top posters but I would like to hear more from them. And I have said it a lot lately probably because I'm concerned she is not fighting the good fight but where is FH. She is pinging me a lot.

And russ I wanna believe he is civ but something is holding me back.

Votes BWT

I am a bit suspect of Russ right now, it feels like he might be trying to defend BWT. This, of course, is assuming that BWT is bad. I don't know what to think of BF right now, but I think I'm leaning civ on him.

*Votes BWT*

He did think Russ seemed civvie earlier, but wonders about him here, as myself and I think a few others were as well.

RIP Russ. Not sure if you were good or not.

I definitely feel stronger about BWT than anyone else still, I've found BF fairly civ overall. I'm pretty sure Heman is cursed, given his sudden attack on LT.

Also, what's with AATB disappearing from the fight? Was that just a fancy way of writing that he survived an NK or something?

More thoughts. Also voted ax in the Night 4 weapon poll.

I'm not really liking the Snake Mountain bandwagon, especially when we don't really know what will happen. I'll just *vote Etherians* and see what happens.

He votes Etherian in the Night 5 poll. Also, he would have voted BWT on Day 5 and missed the vote on Day 6 as well because he keeps forgetting the days end early in the day. I would have pulled those but I have enough quotes already. Seriously.

Thoughts on DFaraday... I don't know. I've been reading him as genuine all game, but he is a baddie possibility. An to him as well, I suppose.

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6. >SpaghettiEverywhere (20 posts)

Fantastic first post Rob! And good work with the math, guys. I think I'm going to go with the Attak Trak, it seems like it would move the most without having 0 as an option. Attak Trak it is!

Also, for those of you who i've played mafia with: Would you like me to do drawings of the host posts for this game?

He voted for Attak Trak and asks about his doing drawings, which were freaking awesome in the PA games, so of course I said yes.

Great post rob! i'm going to draw a picture of it soon :P

anyways i dont much like voting for people who didn't vote, I think quite a few of them probably didnt know the game started (such as my friend reptaronice, I had to inform him that the game had started today at school and that was already past the vote time)

as for the thoughts on people who voted for stridor, I think theres a reasonable chance that each baddie team would have put one player on a stridor, but theres also two independent people, right? possibilities of them wanting to get some extra info for themselves seems pretty good too

Thoughts. I'm getting lazy now.

You didn't factor "civvies might want to actually win the race" into your theory??? Why not? Why wouldn't civvies want to win? You keep changing your "theory" around seemingly to fit whatever is being said. I don't understand at all.

Well take my theory and suck it, because you voted for Stridor and I'm voting for you, totally over it

Also, I'm not sure I understand fully why you voted for reywaS, BF, so can you elaborate on this?

Because he was irritating me? Also, I have to admit I thought the vote was today

I don't know if "because somebody irritated you" is a very good reason to vote to kill them... just my thinking. Rereading your back-and-forth with reywaS, he makes some good points about you being a bit wishy washy about your theories. that being said, I'm gonna have to agree with timmer here and say that this whole stridor/non-stridor business doesn't seem to be going anywhere at all.

As for who I'm feeling suspicious of, It's hard for me to say any one person, there are still a lot who have been busy and are catching up or havent even posted yet. I dont think we should target any non voters as of right now, I would be more willing to do that on a day 2 or day 3 vote. The only person thats really pinging me in the slightest would be He-Man, mostly for not posting anything of real substantial analysis and really only saying things like (paraphrasing here) "lets start talking so we can find baddies"

Disagrees with BF on Stridors.

Sorry for being so quiet recently everybody, college searching and visiting is hell...

As for who to take the shield, I personally dont feel myself threatened and therefore have no use for the shield. Dont know how I feel about MP or LT at the moment, i think both are pinging me a bit. I think out of everyone, thellama is sounding like the best choice as of right now. Votes thellama

Votes llama for shield poll

also an eye for spaghetti everywhere, he was quite prolific in my near downturn on day one yet where is he now? is he silenced even yesterday I dont think we saw much of him.

I'm here, I've just been extremely busy and i'm usually a quiet player anyways. As for being "quite prolific" in your near downturn, I said ONCE that you were pinging me slightly. Since then I have mentioned you zero times.

Now as for you, you actually still are pinging me. You've been pretty wishy washy all game too, as well as throwing out names all game of people you say are good, such as:

Well if she is civ then is nothing to see there. Anne didn't play the game yeah she made a vote but no on will no the reason for it. So for now indigo who is a she is cool with me

and all you ever do is talk about BF

BF makes a good point on reywas vote he didn't take into account all the drama of the last few hours he kinda skipped over it. That doesn't seem very rey like. And roxy with her BWT vote hmm I agree very non committal.

As for me tying up the vote we as a mafia community more often than not lynch civvies day one, this is why I voted boomslang he pinged me and it was enough to try and help BF.

I'm a civvie BF is likely civvie 2 civvies with the more votes than anyone else, classic day one.

Now I could be wrong about BF but he seems helpful to me. And helpful with the info he got and he is not afraid to lay it all out there something baddies rarely do.

Now onto the subject of your wishy washyness, I'd like to point out two specific instances.
1. First you give MP the eye for him just suspecting people. Then you go on to say

well done on suriving MP, its likely now your civ

and then now you're after him again for just saying DH is bad, which it seemed he was blatantly trying to tell us that he was under some sort of hex thing making him say stuff like that.

Mp your super flip floppy this game, first Im suspicioius then Im not then Im suspicious then Im not...dude make your mind up.

I suggest you do the same and make up your damn mind.
Also, you jumped on the DH bandwagon very quickly.
2. Earlier in the game, you and Kate had a band and forth and you seemed pretty adamant that Kate was bad because she accused you and voted you. Now you go and say things like:

as for kate, meh, I'm not seeing her as susoicious right now, I could be wrong but dont feel she has done anything to warrant a vote SO EARLY in the day when she has no defense and there is plenty of time to discuss others.

Yeah. Just some thoughts on the matter. Keep in mind that I am defending neither MP or Kate, they just had to be used as examples to prove my point. Both of them are actually under my suspicions as well.

Has a back and forth with He-Man. If you want to know more, look at his posts; I won't quote them all.

@spaghetti I miss the pictures you were drawing

I've been extremely busy and this game's pictures are hard to draw because I have no background in MOTU I'll draw pictures whenever I have time and know enough of whats going on to draw one.

Also, it seems like AATB and thellama have been chosen, and my vote wont make a difference, so i'll choose them too i guess.

Says he is extremely busy and votes the volunteers for Webstar.

I'm so sorry everybody, I have been so busy im not comfortable voting anyone until i catch up on the 10+ pages i have to read. hopefully I can do that soon. once again, apologies.

Misses a few votes.

I'm leaning for a baddie team as well, since info on the good guys will simply paint targets on our heads for night kills. Of the two baddie teams, I think it makes sense to pick the smaller of the two.

I think this seems like the most logical solution, and so I will choose this as well. Also, BIH Mantenna, great work everyone!

Thoughts.

I'm SO glad we finally got him, took long enough >.> BIH tri-klops. Now seeing as He-Man did turn out baddie, this puts some questions into light: What of the people He-Man was so bent on assuring us they were all civvies? Especially after the lynch vote on Boomslang, who we now know was He-Man's teammate. He tied the vote between Boomslang and BF. Now why would somebody vote their teammate over someone who wasn't on their team? This definitely gives me reasonable cause to think that BF is on Snake Mountain, and the vote wasn't to throw a teammate under the bus, but was in fact, to tie the vote between two teammates for the off chance that they are both spared.

He votes He-Man yesterday and then posts this to start more discussion. He has posted a few more times since then.

Of the 6 here, SE is definitely the most participatory. I think there's no way he's on Snake Mountain considering how insanely long he and He-Man were at it, unless they're both nuts, but I guess we don't know with He-Man. He never did actually vote for BWT so he could be on Horde, or he could just be a civvie. I've been reading him as genuine and the only two other mafia games he has played were on PA -- those games were much less talkative and time intensive and he was a civvie in one of them and a baddie in the other (but Avant didn't have any civvies, it was free-for-all). He gets my I suppose, if only for the possibility he could be Horde since he didn't contribute to BWT's death and we don't have much of any leads currently on Horde members. My gut says ?? but leaning civvie.

OKAY, summary to follow. Wow.

[Tangrowth]

SUMMARY OF LOW POSTERS:
- Ishar and untamed are baddie possibilities but we have literally nearly nothing to go off of.
- Aces was relatively active and then disappeared completely; he was a Stridor voter. He could be a baddie, but could also be civvie. I don't think he is Snake Mountain at all.
- Stormcrow could be a baddie on either team, but it's hard to tell, and she's completely new to mafia. I am guessing lone civvie, but she could definitely be a baddie as well.
- Dom just seems all around weird; he was a Stridor voter. Not sure it means he's a baddie, but a concrete possibility.
- DFaraday could be a baddie, but personally I've been reading him as genuine. Definitely a possibility regardless.
- SE is the most participatory and had a huge day-spawning back and forth with He-Man, so Snake Mountain is probably unlikely (except for the slim WIFOM chance). He has been very busy and, comparing his posting habits with the games on PA where he was civvie and then on a team for Avant 1 (but there were no civvies that game), it seems comparable, and I am inclined to believe him. That being said, he could be a Horde member as he was absent during both of BWT's lynches.

Bottom line: Any or all of these people could be baddies, honestly. Does anyone have any confident civvie reads or baddie reads on these players, please?

I think my vote at this point will be going to one of the low posters outlined above or to one of the indiglo/juliets/BF group. Out of those three, I've been reading BF as most genuine and civvie likely, with juliets thereafter, and indiglo most ??, so I'd probably vote her. Need to think on it and see how BF responds as well, but unfortunately I'll have to vote tonight before I leave for two days.

MP, I believed that He Man could be either Hoard or Snake Mountain. I could see an argument both ways. Regarding your question about indiglo, I'm missing a link somewhere on how thinking He Man was Snake Mountain would mean she was a Hoard or maybe that's not what you're saying. I don't think either indiglo or BF are Hoard.

With regards to the quiet people, my thought process is that the people who are completely silent - not voting, not talking - are unlikely to affect us because they seem completely absent. I do understand what you're saying, that they or their teammates could be sending in the night abilities. When I put forth my thought I was thinking it would be unlikely if they are completely absent that they are doing their night abilities but I did not consider their teammates doing it for them if Epig allows that. I guess that thought takes me back to sqaure 1, any of them could be dangerous.

Oh and on my suspicions, the timing of the votes for Dom and some of the conversation surrounding the vote (I'll have to pull quotes later) is what brought my suspicions to a head but I know I was pinged by something else as well. I just need to do my review.

And yes, I agree i don't see the Hoard killing one of their own in AATB. I'm starting to wonder if he was just a good kill for them because they knew he wasn't one of them, he hadn't really brought up anyone as suspicious, so he was a "safe" kill. No way to trace him back to one of them. Just a thought.

I'll have to do my re-read later because I've got some things going on but I'll post again at that point. I really don't like the feeling that those of us who are talking have targets on our head while the quiet ones don't but again, I just don't know what to do about that.

Let me respond to you here, JC, as well, before I actually study and get ready for my trip.

So that's what you meant by crafty team? Because if you take what you, BF, and indiglo were saying in conjunction, it seemed it was being insinuated he was on Snake Mountain. The link is that -- there is a role on Horde called the Leech, which BF pointed out to me when it seemed two people were hexed that one day (BF for me and timmer for BF). I realized that maybe Horde knows exactly who might be on Snake Mountain and that they wanted He-Man gone because he was playing a good game, so what better way to do that then to come in here and start a lynch against him to get rid of him AND gain civvie cred? It's entirely possible that indiglo or any or all of you had that in mind, or that none of you or that some of you did and the others are innocent civvies. I don't know. I'm trying to consider all the possibilities. But that's my train of thought.

I agree that AATB was likely just a "safe" kill; that makes sense.

Let me know what you find regarding your suspicions. I'm going to study now; I'm mafia'ed out for the time being and I have a lot of studying to get done today to stay on schedule.