Halvøsen Ridge [MAFIA WIN]

[Alison]

I think Ender's sporadic unwillingness to cooperate is rand>town tbh

Why? I can see mafia motivation for it (not giving info to town, lowering engagement, covering up TMI). What's the town motivation?

[Boquise]

Also thanks to those who answered my question about Boq. The wording is less weird since they do seem to be considered town, however it does still ping me a little when anyone talks about them myself in terms of being so town.
They are still null for me I guess

Gun to head: scum without much thread control doesn't take issue when a consensus town read townie calls themselves consensus town read. That scum player is likely to sheep the read for the moment and push elsewhere.

It is more town indicative to try to think independently and be paranoid over such statements. It is also pretty town indicative to not be generous with these sort of things. Disliking that someone reiterates town reads on them in a neutral manner is irrational and therefore also townie tbh

[Boquise]

I think Ender's sporadic unwillingness to cooperate is rand>town tbh

Why? I can see mafia motivation for it (not giving info to town, lowering engagement, covering up TMI). What's the town motivation?

Mostly basing it on experience.
There really isn't a town motivation for it, which is the key. Scum knows that and knows that people suspect them if they withhold information. Town can imo play in a more "selfish" (for the lack of better words) manner tbh

I think Ender should be pushed still because my experience takes aren't 100% tbh

[Boquise]

Also thanks to those who answered my question about Boq. The wording is less weird since they do seem to be considered town, however it does still ping me a little when anyone talks about them myself in terms of being so town.
They are still null for me I guess

Gun to head: scum without much thread control doesn't take issue when a consensus town read townie calls themselves consensus town read. That scum player is likely to sheep the read for the moment and push elsewhere.

It is more town indicative to try to think independently and be paranoid over such statements. It is also pretty town indicative to not be generous with these sort of things. Disliking that someone reiterates town reads on them in a neutral manner is irrational and therefore also townie tbh

To clarify, this is a town lean on Finger

[NateTheLesser]

[VOTE: NateTheLesser] aubergine

Honestly don't feel like you care about the current gamestate, why's that?

I said this in more words in response to Alison, but people keep agreeing with my pushes, and it leaves me oddly directionless.

You're disquieted because you think there's a wolf in Alison/Lucy/Jay? Why those 3?

[NateTheLesser]

Nate, I have almost finished reading your quali. What are the main things you learned from that game? And what is it you want to do different in this one?

I'll come back to this tomorrow, I should sleep.

[Alison]

I think Ender's sporadic unwillingness to cooperate is rand>town tbh

Why? I can see mafia motivation for it (not giving info to town, lowering engagement, covering up TMI). What's the town motivation?

Mostly basing it on experience.
There really isn't a town motivation for it, which is the key. Scum knows that and knows that people suspect them if they withhold information. Town can imo play in a more "selfish" (for the lack of better words) manner tbh

I think Ender should be pushed still because my experience takes aren't 100% tbh

This is pretty much a TWTBAW read and I don't really buy those arguments.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

It's back, in Pog screenshot form!

Day 1 Votes:

Spoiler: show

Waterfall:

Spoiler: show

EOD Wagons:

Spoiler: show

Bringing this back up for reference

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Something I notice as I finish my interactions:

@Dyslexicon, when you entered the game and found some "cringe" votes on you from Ender and Rondo, you pursued the former as a suspect and didn't do much with the latter.

@RondoDimBuckle, you voted for basically everyone on Day 1, and ended the day as the lone vote on Dizzy:

Can't wolves just be among the low hanging who got townread early (lucy, Boquise, idk who else)?

No, that would be IMPOSSIBLE!

I simply MUST refuse!

And also, no idea, haven't read their post, also don't care, BAIIIIi

[VOTE: Dizzy ] aubergine

Given the wagons of the time and your own voting behavior, it is difficult to take much meaning from this. Please, both of you, tell me what you think of the other. Dizzy, what's up with Rondo. Rondo, what's up with Dizzy.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

One thing that becomes evident as I continue to dig is that Ender was more liberal with his vote on Day 1 than anyone short of Rondo. Nate's breakdown makes that really easy to follow. This may lend credence to Seanzie's previous gripes about separation from Wilgy, because regardless of one's interpretation of his Wilgy vote -- he did the same for numerous others (e.g., fingersplints and falcon). It's a minor point for a single interaction, but it's one I will concede.

[RondoDimBuckle]

Shouldn't I have at least one vote by now, or by soon?
Am I scary?

I started to read the game, but my eyes got heavy.
I'll try again tomorrow or tonight.

(Also, the weather is amazing).

If you continue to be an active poster who still feels like they're half in fluff stage, then the whole vote thing will change pretty quickly, I'm sure.

I was thinking the same thing

[RondoDimBuckle]

To anyone who is voting for fingersplints, here's a couple links to recent wolf games from her.

Fargo Mafia - ok this was from a year ago. This is one of fs's most active games I've seen, she spent a lot of time early on talking about pretty much anything but reads, and even her reads were not very strong at the start.
Mafia Syndicate Normal Game - this is from a few months ago, fs barely posted, and her posts were all very short, and she does seem stilted in this one.

I'm not seeing either of these things from her. Yes fingersplints doesn't post a lot, but that is normal for her (and really it's that the rest of us just post way too much). What I have seen here is an almost immediate attempt to generate reads, explain them, and she's also considering how the game will play out based on flips and looking ahead, an approach which appears to be lacking in her scum meta.

I'd call her town right now.

I am not saying I know Finger more than you. I just think she has some questions to answer. Her line of attack on falcon was definitely suspect and she admits it. So I would like to see some solving and some actual opinions instead of hiding on the sidelines

While I dig around these interactions, here's a good way for folks to engage: either with or without looking first, are their any pairings on the current roster that strike you as particularly probable mafia teammates or otherwise concerning? Or pairings that are definitely not teammates in your eyes?

Marmot/Finger? Or has it been done already?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'll get a look at Marmot/finger reasonably soon.

[RondoDimBuckle]

Boquise and Rondo have a ton of interactions, but none of it strikes me as dissociated. I bring this up because another set of eyes might help, particularly from anyone that is more familiar with either Boq or Rondo than I am. For now it's a yellow box on the chart.

Yellow box?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@RondoDimBuckle, @EnderWiggin -- I get the impression you know each other quite well. Have you been on a mafia team together before?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Boquise and Rondo have a ton of interactions, but none of it strikes me as dissociated. I bring this up because another set of eyes might help, particularly from anyone that is more familiar with either Boq or Rondo than I am. For now it's a yellow box on the chart.

Yellow box?

Yellow just means I'm not currently willing to dissociate two players as I world-build. It'll be clearer when I post the chart.

[RondoDimBuckle]

I'm rereading Ender's Day 1 ISO and am feeling less confident that he's actually a hit.

He's shitposted a lot, but there are flashes of opinions that I like. His treating of JJJ's readlist I think is townie. While I don't like his falcon vote, that's not the only vote he made Day 1 that kinda lacked context. He did so with fingersplits as well as Wilgy.

I also read a little bit of his Champs game (where he was wolf), and there was way less shitposting early on. He might have just taken that game more seriously, but the approach is very different here.



Hmmmmm

100% I took that game more seriously.

Right now I'm in destress to make sure I don't over-stress for Semi's which is why this game is shitpostery compared.

You're in distress? Someone call an ambulance.

Also I think Ender is wolf because he refused to say he was human. He just laughed. [This is a meme post]

Spoiler: show

You can go earlier in my ISO to see my actual suspicions on Ender

[RondoDimBuckle]

I think these posts are decent to dissociate Wilgy/Rondo. The second post in the spoiler especially looks like a direct appeal by Wilgy to Rondo, that (if we assume Wilgy is mafia) doesn't reflect the kind of language I associate with teammates. He also looks like he is explaining himself in response to Rondo's pestering as though the person he is speaking to doesn't already know the answer. There's also the "[not shade just curious]" from Rondo that doesn't look teamed.

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

So do you think that town Mac should be townreading you for your play prior to this post? If so can you show me the parts where you've towntold to a degree where you'd expect me to notice?

I do not, but I do believe that town Mac would allow for more data before gauging someone he has a track record of reading correctly.

That is what's throwing me off. Your conclusion was drawn far more quickly than I'd expect.

However, the gusto I feel from your posts is in line to how I perceive town Mac. It is quite the contradiction.

Do you, Mac, feel as if your ability to read me has shifted at all in the past year? If so, do you feel it has improved or declined?

First sentence, since when have you known me to not be bullish with making reads immediately? I don't think my track record of reading you is superb. I've read you wrong quite a lot. I think I read you poorly when we first started playing, went through a patch of reading you really well, and then when you came back from hiatus and started playing more intentionally I lost my ability to read you because you were playing entirely new again.

In this game you just seem to be making posts for the sake of it.

I expect bullishness yes, but I expect it to reflect data available. For what this concerns, I do not think the data was available for your vote to land on me. A read, maybe, but for that to entice your vote and to be your most sound read is what brought about my interest.

Thank you for the explanation. If you do believe my interactions with Seanzie, Rondo, EW, and Lucy so far did not achieve anything, you are mistaken. Further, If I were just posting to post, would I not have more posts currently however?

So far, my research and study have lead to concerns with Lucy and Seanzie. With Rondo and EnderWiggin, I have not yet seen anything that would imply wolf play.

JJJ I have in a slight focus as well as their early read on Lucy contradicts my own.

I do believe that ultimately it is still in our best interest to keep Jay the all Consuming from absorbing our own Jay.

What did they achieve? Other than promoting more talk? [not shade just curious]

What concerns? Am I missing something with Seanzie? What are your concerns with Lucy?

Examining what players would respond to was the intent.

Would it be my role play (which I shall continue)? would it be silly voting or wolf calling? Would it be me using silly words and such?

Seanzie is in a slight wolf lean as I indicated earlier. They provided a wolf read on me rather early. This was reasonable. They however did not respond to my asking of further actions to follow the read in a way that informed me their read was serious. The ask for multiple actions following the read on me was to encourage thought and lines of action, I received nothing following, not even an further attempt to analyze. If Seanzie had wanted to, this would have been a very good opportunity for a civilian to push the game state in a positive way against someone who you claimed was a wolf as they just gave you the discussion floor.

Nah ur reads are bogus lol.

And you are either of the ten fools or a wolf.

Your read indicates one while behavior hits at the other, I'll place you orange.

Are you sure you actually feel this way? I dont see a vote on Mac. Could it be performative?

I believe Seanzie deserves the vote more currently and I didn't vote there.

Rondo, it is still my modus operandi to only half read the thread even if I am currently involved. I likely will not vote unless I feel like I've read enough or if what I have read has given me enough feeling to warrant the vote.

Nah ur reads are bogus lol.

And you are either of the ten fools or a wolf.

Your read indicates one while behavior hits at the other, I'll place you orange.

Are you sure you actually feel this way? I dont see a vote on Mac. Could it be performative?

I believe Seanzie deserves the vote more currently and I didn't vote there.

Rondo, it is still my modus operandi to only half read the thread even if I am currently involved. I likely will not vote unless I feel like I've read enough or if what I have read has given me enough feeling to warrant the vote.

Thanks for the heads up on your play. I assume Mac will call you out if you are lying

In the interest of sharing. Just because I say no shade it doesnt mean I didnt suspect them at the time. I just didnt want it to turn into a thing and possibly lay them at ease. Id have to go back and review

[RondoDimBuckle]

You want me to interpret your post with a softer word than "clear", and yet you used a stronger phrase, "solid clear".

I don't expect you to call everything null, but I do hope you weight posts/analyses based on how fallible they are, and I'm not sure I'm seeing that here.

Language. The modifier "solid" implies "good, but not absolute" -- if you interpret "clear" as absolute, that isn't my meaning. It's lingo that I have dragged from fucken spec chat. "Town-indicative"

I do not interpret someone saying someone else is socially cleared as absolute, but I think the vast majority of people use that as something a good step stronger than "town-indicative" or "town lean", and I'd guess you do to.

lol I love this pedantic fight over definitions. T/T?

[RondoDimBuckle]

I'm about to lose the rest of this evening to work, so I hope folks get engaged here. The game is kind of dead apart from my analysis and Sean hating it.

I like your guys little back and forth there

I am low key hating that Finger and I mind meld

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If I am wrong about a high town read, my first guess would be lucy.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

You want me to interpret your post with a softer word than "clear", and yet you used a stronger phrase, "solid clear".

I don't expect you to call everything null, but I do hope you weight posts/analyses based on how fallible they are, and I'm not sure I'm seeing that here.

Language. The modifier "solid" implies "good, but not absolute" -- if you interpret "clear" as absolute, that isn't my meaning. It's lingo that I have dragged from fucken spec chat. "Town-indicative"

I do not interpret someone saying someone else is socially cleared as absolute, but I think the vast majority of people use that as something a good step stronger than "town-indicative" or "town lean", and I'd guess you do to.

lol I love this pedantic fight over definitions. T/T?

Why is that T/T

[RondoDimBuckle]

JJJ votes on Falcon a quick scroll through the iso shows he doenst move off falcon

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: falcon45ca] aubergine

Nate the lesser jumps on after and doesnt move off falcon as well

Spoiler: show

Doing this for now
[VOTE: falcon] aubergine

Maybe a weird read. But the one game I have with him he was more pure shitpost-y and difficult for me to get a read either way on. Here it's "shitpost-y" interspersed with like actual reads, which is throwing me off.

Then Creature, who votes, moves around jumps on falcon a second time and ends up on Ender

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: falcon45ca] aubergine

[VOTE: falcon45ca] aubergine

After is Ender, who will jump onto Dizzy and back on later

Spoiler: show

[GIF]

what is the significance of those four Creature posts to you

They read like someone who's having trouble engaging in the game. Creature is far more assertive as town, those are pot stirring, wall flower posts

never mind

[VOTE: Falcon] aubergine

I just remembered thanks to Rondo that I disliked Falcon's Creature push.

[VOTE: Falcon] aubergine

Next is Seanzie who jumps off onto wiggly

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Falcon45ca] aubergine

Then Naked vote by Fingersplints (I believe she explains later)

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: falcon] aubergine

Then Dizzy

Spoiler: show

Most likely, I won't vote anyone.

Jk

[VOTE: Falcon] aubergine

[Second creature here]
Marmot but ends on Ender

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: falcon] aubergine

I'm going to read his ISO, but I'm having trouble reading his current behavior as townie.

The picture of vote I took before vote madness

Spoiler: show

viewtopic.php?t=2389&start=1600#p928315

Dizzy

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Falcon] aubergine

Now there’s enough votes for bussing to happen.

Gottem.

Ender

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Falcon] aubergine

[Ender 2 is here]
Alison

Spoiler: show

I did not realize it was EOD already. Luckily I checked before heading off to breakfast.

It seems like Creature isn't going over today and I think falcon is more suspicious than Ender so I'm moving my vote accordingly.

[VOTE: falcon] aubergine

I'm ok with a falcon exe - the way he treated Mac was weird and seemed to have no purpose other than randomly discrediting and shading him.

Lucy

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: @falcon45ca ] aubergine

So Marmot is the last off, Lucy is the last on. Does a wolf who knows the Flip do that? This gets into WIFOM territory but I really am having a hard time seeing it. But Mac says murder Marmot. JJJ and Boq are on first and they really dont move Is that wolfy? I dunno they would have to deal with the flakk. So I would be looking towards the center of the pack for 1-2

This was a pain in the ass to format and search for so I might have missed something. You can reference Nakeds nice spreadsheet to double check I just noticed I have dizzy twice, Im not changing it

A) Creature, Ender, Finger, Dizzy, Alison - 1-2 of

B)Possibly one of JJJ, Nate, Lucy, Marmot if you think a wolf is that ballsy - 1 of and 1 of above

D)Or if you think we are way off it could be none of the above and 3 of
Boquise, Seanzie, DrWilgy, RondoDimBuckle

Which I dont think is really viable, at least from my point of view its unlikely that Boq/Seanzie/Wigly are all wolf. So it must be some sort of split of A:1-2 B:0-1 C:0-1

So we just need to find the most wolfy in those groups

Spoiler: show

In terms of suspicion around and votes for Falcon, this is a vote I'm interested in hearing more about. Offers a town perspective on Falcon early (not really a read, more "I would expect this from him as town"), and then later on has him as a scumlean but with an out of saying they always think he's scum and have been wrong before.

Alison looks towny, JJJ looks towny




Sean's a wolf

This post is scummy for Falcon... these reads are agenda laden regardless of what Alison and Jay's alignment is (can be t/w or t/t).

It's how I'm reading your playstyle, your vibes.



t's the approach Alison has, her posting has a questioning solvey method, that doesn't feel like it's pushing an agenda. You have a similar feel, like you're working on solving the game.



Sean feels...stiff, awkward.

words... that mean nothing

What really did it was his spree of just asking aimless questions of why people had the reads they had that I can already see he has no intent in following up on lol.

eg., town Falcon doesn't give a shit about why EnderWiggin would vote Fingersplints lol.

Town falcon pretty much always talks about/suspects me early. Him noticing and commenting on a vote of me isn’t at all surprising to me if he were town

Yes

Are you scumleaning Falcon due to that past experience, or what's feeding that scumlean?

Just a vibe based on past experiences and general tone in posts in this game.

It’s not great and completely vague, so I apologise to everyone and falcon. I wish I had more to go off of, but day 1 is rough

[VOTE: falcon] aubergine

I’m going to try and be around still for the rest of the EOD but I’m already getting tired.

We are currently tied falcon vs creature. If it stays like that I support a falcon vote more than a creature vote. I think he is the more suspicious of the two, and I think that we can form some decent connections with his flip given a lot of folks have given opinions or had interactions with him. More than anything though I don’t want it to end in the tie option. Again I’ll try to stay up

I'm good with a vote here for now.
[VOTE: fingersplints] aubergine

Well I wasn’t wrong that when I think he is scum, he is town. It was a weak day 1 vote based off of general vibes and tone, so I can see why my vote should be looked at because I think it was a pretty lame and vague vote but just because it’s a bad vote it doesn’t come from a bad/scum place. As I expressed in the post you linked, I didn’t want it to be a tie and no result. While this obviously wasn’t the desired result, at least we have something to work with.

At that time I really dont think we were at risk of a tie and many people had already voiced their concern at a tie myself included.

I think here is a good place to start, lets see if anything happens
[VOTE: Finger ] aubergine

More please Finger

You say “I really don’t think we were at risk of a tie” but as even mentioned in the post of mine you quoted the votes were tied when I wrote that. Sure it’s unlikely they would stay exactly that way the remainder of the day, but it’s really not that weird for me to have commented on the vote as it stood right then.

You comment on the words I said but not the greater issue. You look like you took an opportunistic vote on Falcon please talk more about the state of the game not just a small portion of my push

[RondoDimBuckle]

G-Man didn't save the final vote count which is annoying. iirc Falcon was a pretty large runaway wagon with low accountability; I'd expect mafia to either casually pile on or hide on some vanity wagon so they don't get their hands dirty. Biased more towards the former if they had a teammate in danger.

Everyone voted Falcon except I and Falcon iirc

You/Rondo/Wilgy are the living players that didn't vote Falcon.

Does this imply anything to you? Is the data helpful? What do you think about each of us individually? Any pairings?

[RondoDimBuckle]

Boq and Rondo actually can be cleared in a Marmot!Wolf world, as can Creature probably.

Mildly trusting Seanzie on the unpairing for Creature/Marmot tbh.

Walk me through this? How does Marmot Wolf clear me?

Magic.

But seriously your vote twice put Marmot from "One vote" to "Actual wagon territory" on D1. And chaos muppet that you are, I don't think that's w/w

Meh, the votes weren't that dangerous IMO. Twice he was the lone vote on Marmot for a while, and then the last one he was a second vote (when Falcon had 4 votes). I think I agree with your overall point though, since I don't think he'd vote for Marmot 3 times on day one if they were partners.

I mean thats what I thought, they were just poking votes. Im glad someone else said it.

[RondoDimBuckle]

I'll be a little busy for the next 12 hours or so, my apologies. I have skimmed fingersplint's posts this page and been left with a generally good impression. Would like more elaboration on how Ender read Dizzy's entrance; which part of it was a towntell, etc.

If I elaborate it won't work anymore lol.

Keeping a read cryptic so you can use it in future games is dumb. You have already been extremely cagey this game; I would like you to please elaborate on the tell you used to read Dizzy.

I disagree with this. If I had a tell on someone I would never tell them what that is. Its reliable in all games

[RondoDimBuckle]

Spoiler: show

JJJ votes on Falcon a quick scroll through the iso shows he doenst move off falcon

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: falcon45ca] aubergine

Nate the lesser jumps on after and doesnt move off falcon as well

Spoiler: show

Doing this for now
[VOTE: falcon] aubergine

Maybe a weird read. But the one game I have with him he was more pure shitpost-y and difficult for me to get a read either way on. Here it's "shitpost-y" interspersed with like actual reads, which is throwing me off.

Then Creature, who votes, moves around jumps on falcon a second time and ends up on Ender

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: falcon45ca] aubergine

[VOTE: falcon45ca] aubergine

After is Ender, who will jump onto Dizzy and back on later

Spoiler: show

[GIF]

what is the significance of those four Creature posts to you

They read like someone who's having trouble engaging in the game. Creature is far more assertive as town, those are pot stirring, wall flower posts

never mind

[VOTE: Falcon] aubergine

I just remembered thanks to Rondo that I disliked Falcon's Creature push.

[VOTE: Falcon] aubergine

Next is Seanzie who jumps off onto wiggly

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Falcon45ca] aubergine

Then Naked vote by Fingersplints (I believe she explains later)

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: falcon] aubergine

Then Dizzy

Spoiler: show

Most likely, I won't vote anyone.

Jk

[VOTE: Falcon] aubergine

[Second creature here]
Marmot but ends on Ender

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: falcon] aubergine

I'm going to read his ISO, but I'm having trouble reading his current behavior as townie.

The picture of vote I took before vote madness

Spoiler: show

viewtopic.php?t=2389&start=1600#p928315

Dizzy

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Falcon] aubergine

Now there’s enough votes for bussing to happen.

Gottem.

Ender

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Falcon] aubergine

[Ender 2 is here]
Alison

Spoiler: show

I did not realize it was EOD already. Luckily I checked before heading off to breakfast.

It seems like Creature isn't going over today and I think falcon is more suspicious than Ender so I'm moving my vote accordingly.

[VOTE: falcon] aubergine

I'm ok with a falcon exe - the way he treated Mac was weird and seemed to have no purpose other than randomly discrediting and shading him.

Lucy

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: @falcon45ca ] aubergine

So Marmot is the last off, Lucy is the last on. Does a wolf who knows the Flip do that? This gets into WIFOM territory but I really am having a hard time seeing it. But Mac says murder Marmot. JJJ and Boq are on first and they really dont move Is that wolfy? I dunno they would have to deal with the flakk. So I would be looking towards the center of the pack for 1-2

This was a pain in the ass to format and search for so I might have missed something. You can reference Nakeds nice spreadsheet to double check I just noticed I have dizzy twice, Im not changing it

A) Creature, Ender, Finger, Dizzy, Alison - 1-2 of

B)Possibly one of JJJ, Nate, Lucy, Marmot if you think a wolf is that ballsy - 1 of and 1 of above

D)Or if you think we are way off it could be none of the above and 3 of
Boquise, Seanzie, DrWilgy, RondoDimBuckle

Which I dont think is really viable, at least from my point of view its unlikely that Boq/Seanzie/Wigly are all wolf. So it must be some sort of split of A:1-2 B:0-1 C:0-1

So we just need to find the most wolfy in those groups

Spoiler: show

In terms of suspicion around and votes for Falcon, this is a vote I'm interested in hearing more about. Offers a town perspective on Falcon early (not really a read, more "I would expect this from him as town"), and then later on has him as a scumlean but with an out of saying they always think he's scum and have been wrong before.

Alison looks towny, JJJ looks towny




Sean's a wolf

This post is scummy for Falcon... these reads are agenda laden regardless of what Alison and Jay's alignment is (can be t/w or t/t).

It's how I'm reading your playstyle, your vibes.



t's the approach Alison has, her posting has a questioning solvey method, that doesn't feel like it's pushing an agenda. You have a similar feel, like you're working on solving the game.



Sean feels...stiff, awkward.

words... that mean nothing

What really did it was his spree of just asking aimless questions of why people had the reads they had that I can already see he has no intent in following up on lol.

eg., town Falcon doesn't give a shit about why EnderWiggin would vote Fingersplints lol.

Town falcon pretty much always talks about/suspects me early. Him noticing and commenting on a vote of me isn’t at all surprising to me if he were town

Yes

Are you scumleaning Falcon due to that past experience, or what's feeding that scumlean?

Just a vibe based on past experiences and general tone in posts in this game.

It’s not great and completely vague, so I apologise to everyone and falcon. I wish I had more to go off of, but day 1 is rough

[VOTE: falcon] aubergine

I’m going to try and be around still for the rest of the EOD but I’m already getting tired.

We are currently tied falcon vs creature. If it stays like that I support a falcon vote more than a creature vote. I think he is the more suspicious of the two, and I think that we can form some decent connections with his flip given a lot of folks have given opinions or had interactions with him. More than anything though I don’t want it to end in the tie option. Again I’ll try to stay up

I'm good with a vote here for now.
[VOTE: fingersplints] aubergine

Well I wasn’t wrong that when I think he is scum, he is town. It was a weak day 1 vote based off of general vibes and tone, so I can see why my vote should be looked at because I think it was a pretty lame and vague vote but just because it’s a bad vote it doesn’t come from a bad/scum place. As I expressed in the post you linked, I didn’t want it to be a tie and no result. While this obviously wasn’t the desired result, at least we have something to work with.

At that time I really dont think we were at risk of a tie and many people had already voiced their concern at a tie myself included.

I think here is a good place to start, lets see if anything happens
[VOTE: Finger ] aubergine

More please Finger

This isn't quite right, order-wise. The full picture of Falcon's votes looks something like this:
nate, mac, ender, ender, jjj, creature, mac, ender, creature, ender, sean, sean, finger, dizzy, dizzy, creature, marmot, dizzy, ender, creature, mac, marmot, alison, lucy

Regardless, I agree that somewhere in the middle voters is where I'd expect to find a wolf. More than 1 I don't know, I think that depends more on whether any wolves were in danger and whether they needed to actually push Falcon or just nudge him along.

Thanks, I got a headache compiling that without using your thing just in case it was inaccurate

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Nate is a scum lean, his read list is exactly what neutral territory is and what someone would put without their own thoughts, entirely public opinion. I don't think he put any effort into that read list himself

@NateTheLesser, I'd like to see you respond to this assertion in some capacity. I don't see it in your posts, but if it's there just point the way.

[RondoDimBuckle]

I'm about to lose the rest of this evening to work, so I hope folks get engaged here. The game is kind of dead apart from my analysis and Sean hating it.

I like your guys little back and forth there

Do you have any thoughts on our alignments based on our little back and forth?

T/T

It’s important to not get to comfortable with town consensus, so while I don’t agree with your assessment of Jay but I really like where it’s coming from

ok, mind melding with finger once is concerning, twice is I dont know

[RondoDimBuckle]

Celebrating my 10000 posts anniversary by mentioning I'm happy to be a part of this community,
and to be floating around in the larger mafia community multiverse.

I still remember how welcoming everyone was when I played my first games here at Cindy Kate!

Hopefully, we can continue to have fun with this silly or deep game!

Maybe the real wolves were the friends we made along the way.

Congrats

[RondoDimBuckle]

RondoDimBuckle still prob town

Honestly, when Mac died I expected today to not go so unmolested.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

ok, mind melding with finger once is concerning, twice is I dont know

What does this mean?

[RondoDimBuckle]

What are your all thoughts on Boquise now?

Earmarked for later answering

[RondoDimBuckle]

Been vastly busy today.

See Dizzy as prime target? I accept this.

Ender/Marmot/Seanzie are also acceptable.

What's goin on in the thread?

Do you see any pairings in this group or are you just looking for the first wolf flip?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm having a hell of a time interpreting lucy's interactions. With many players she has a ton of engagement, often mutual engagement, but it doesn't often lead somewhere concrete or observable. It all just kind of exists. Those that suspect lucy, particularly the current voters @Seanzie and @Marmot, would be well advised to see what team fits they like and don't like. I think plenty can fit, but with very little degree of confidence given her unique posture in the game.

[RondoDimBuckle]

Boq and Rondo actually can be cleared in a Marmot!Wolf world, as can Creature probably.

Mildly trusting Seanzie on the unpairing for Creature/Marmot tbh.

Walk me through this? How does Marmot Wolf clear me?

Magic.

But seriously your vote twice put Marmot from "One vote" to "Actual wagon territory" on D1. And chaos muppet that you are, I don't think that's w/w

Meh, the votes weren't that dangerous IMO. Twice he was the lone vote on Marmot for a while, and then the last one he was a second vote (when Falcon had 4 votes). I think I agree with your overall point though, since I don't think he'd vote for Marmot 3 times on day one if they were partners.

Semantics are semantics.

Point is you look at those votes too and you're like "Does Rondo really do this as wolf?"

The answer is yes, probably now it will happen.

But before he was aware he probably wouldn't have.

I mean town or wolf my votes will be nuts day 1, all that really matters is who I land on. Ender was right about that day 1

[RondoDimBuckle]

Fingers is a fine wagon.

I might need to revisit it because two of my townreads independantly came to a scumread there.

You have reads this game?

Here I thought you were impersonating Tuxedo Mask

[RondoDimBuckle]

Spoiler: show

Been vastly busy today.

See Dizzy as prime target? I accept this.

Ender/Marmot/Seanzie are also acceptable.

What's goin on in the thread?

I see.

Tell me why Dizzy over Seanzie?

Mac's list + I get the feeling Dyslexicon is playing a wolfgame here

Understood. Now how about Wiggin?

Dizzy, help me yeet [VOTE: Ender] aubergine

The concern I have with Wilgy today is that this is the information he has volunteered, and it consists solely of an intention to kill Ender. It's very singularly-focused.

On a related note, Ender has not mentioned Wilgy yet today, nor responded to his vote. I'm not sure what to make of that (it could be that he just hasn't been around since Wilgy's vote).

Wilgy's vote isn't really something I feel I need to respond to anyway

Why not?

Because it's... a vote?

I don't think I need to discuss every vote on me.

I haven't seen any striking reasons I need to counter.

I just exist in a state that sometimes gets votes.

I like this post

[RondoDimBuckle]

Eh, I'd support a Rondo chop on policy, assuming nothing major comes up later.

What policy/reasoning specifically?

That post was in response to Rondo self-admittedly trolling.

@RondoDimBuckle, Alison has placed a vote on your head. Please talk about that and thanks

It is a thing she has done . I dont really care too much because I knew it was coming and it makes me happy

Why would someone attacking you make you happy?

Because I am a giant troll and love when I can elicit an emotional reaction from people. Ala, you entering thread and insta voting me. Its predictability is food for the soul. It just makes me happy

Have I gotten better or worse in regards to a policy chop? I toned down my meming per-request

[RondoDimBuckle]

Is this just how Ender plays? Incredibly mysterious and chaotic?

Usually he is a little mysterious. Never seen him this bad.

Its new to me too.

[RondoDimBuckle]

Seanzie isn't trying to make friends and all his messages have been game relevant and inquisitive. he hasn't pressed anyone at all yet which is something I want to see, dunno if he ever presses people to begin with though. and I don't see any possible partners for him

Uhh... what?

lol, Seanzie has been as prickly as a prickle, not giving a shit who it is.

I gotta go people are here, continuing soon

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@RondoDimBuckle, I am trying to follow the thread of your play. I see that you did post come consolidated reads of a sort here, and that is appreciated. Two questions:

1) How did you decide on the tiers or groupings of possible mafia in that post?

2) As you play right now and respond to a ton of posts, is that impacting your present view of the game? Does it impact this reads post?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Day 2 blind interactions

Spoiler: show

Yellow -- no reason to dissociate
Green -- less likely to be mafia teammates

Alright. This was a bit of a frustrating exercise for me in the end. This game thread is, for lack of a better word, odd. The environment of gameplay has been very positive and warm, and I think that's generally a good thing. However, a byproduct of this constant warmth may be that players have been less inclined overall toward emotional spikes, and those spikes are often the kinds of things that facilitate green blocks in my charts. I don't suggest anyone change, or certainly don't add toxicity just for the sake of making reads. Sometimes them's the breaks.

So that is to say that this thing is more yellow than I would like for it to be. The first objective with these charts is, for me at least, always to try to reduce the breadth of the suspect pool by finding people who don't fit on many mafia teams. The closest I was able to come here was DrWilgy, and that has come with some controversy already. Nonetheless, that is better than nothing. It means to me that moving forward, if Wilgy is to be viewed as a prospective chop, then it is the responsibility of any town members engaging in that vote to ensure they think there are viable teams that fit and that they're not operating in low-probability universes.

Another player that I think looks decent emerging from this effort is Marmot. It's not entirely conclusive, because some of his fits remain with players that I would POE, but at least quantitatively I don't think he fits into as many theoretical worlds as most other players could.

For the time being I am going to roast on this and determine what intersections can be identified, if any, with the other analytic approaches folks have provided this day phase.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Marmot/Finger? Or has it been done already?

To answer your prompt: I don't see anything that makes me want to dissociate the two. fingersplints hasn't done much with Marmot in general, and Marmot's protection of splints would be a rather token teammate motion. It's not a pairing that inspires much in me either way.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

His Day 2 posts so far feel like they're being produced by a machine

[Dyslexicon]

Something I notice as I finish my interactions:

@Dyslexicon, when you entered the game and found some "cringe" votes on you from Ender and Rondo, you pursued the former as a suspect and didn't do much with the latter.

Given the wagons of the time and your own voting behavior, it is difficult to take much meaning from this. Please, both of you, tell me what you think of the other. Dizzy, what's up with Rondo. Rondo, what's up with Dizzy.

Not quite correct.
My interest in Ender started when he town read me and didn't want to explain it. I don't even know if I'd call it "pursue him as a suspect", but that's semantics.
Both their votes was, as I said, cringe. I didn't pursue any from just that.

I think Ender claims the vote to be pressure which may or may not have contributed to him reading me in his mind. I'm a bit "Press X to doubt" on that, because it seems thin. But I also don't know. Ender could be town and using meta that is thin and shaky.
Rondo's vote was apparently because I didn't answer his questions. Which is a very silly reason, when I clearly hadn't been around.
I've played once with Rondo before. And I don't expect to be following his thoughts or reasoning, as he seems very random. In fact, I felt quite annoyed by his play in that one game. Which one of the reasons I haven't used my time to read any of his posts. So I don't know what's up with Rondo.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Spoiler: show

I kinda think that there is a necessary auto period here.

Like there is a line and those below it have to all die before those above it because if the mafia are all above it the game is already over and we are wasting our time and that's very unlikely.

Line

Dyslexicon
Creature
Falcon
DrWilgy

For some reason I don't want to put Fingersplints below the line. I think Dyslexicon has the most chance of being town but I can't reasonably put him above it.

This post is just terrible and you all are completely ignoring how terrible this post is

I am amenable to Creature and Falcon wagons, and would be happy to lend my support to either. I am less enthusiastic about Dizzy or Wilgy wagons; I think Creature and Falcon are both scummier than an =rand player, even if you look past Dizzy trying harder as scum, and I have a townread on Wilgy.

Why are you all following Mac's list? I'm not seeing more than 0 or 1 wolves in it which is pretty fucking bad.

I kinda think that there is a necessary auto period here.

Like there is a line and those below it have to all die before those above it because if the mafia are all above it the game is already over and we are wasting our time and that's very unlikely.

Line

Dyslexicon
Creature
Falcon
DrWilgy

For some reason I don't want to put Fingersplints below the line. I think Dyslexicon has the most chance of being town but I can't reasonably put him above it.

This post is just terrible and you all are completely ignoring how terrible this post is

I've seen him make posts very similar to this as town and I'm pretty sure you have too so this is weird shade.

Yes, but considering these are me (who I know to be town), falcon (who is the other popular lynch name) and two nulls it looks a lot like the Pokemon mash game on MU where Scyther/Mac made bad pushes on town and was eventually caught as wolf D2.

If there's any wolf within Mac's list it's most likely Dyslexicon

[VOTE: Dyslexicon] aubergine

Creature, please tell me about the inside of your brain during this progression.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Not quite correct.
My interest in Ender started when he town read me and didn't want to explain it. I don't even know if I'd call it "pursue him as a suspect", but that's semantics.
Both their votes was, as I said, cringe. I didn't pursue any from just that.

I think Ender claims the vote to be pressure which may or may not have contributed to him reading me in his mind. I'm a bit "Press X to doubt" on that, because it seems thin. But I also don't know. Ender could be town and using meta that is thin and shaky.
Rondo's vote was apparently because I didn't answer his questions. Which is a very silly reason, when I clearly hadn't been around.
I've played once with Rondo before. And I don't expect to be following his thoughts or reasoning, as he seems very random. In fact, I felt quite annoyed by his play in that one game. Which one of the reasons I haven't used my time to read any of his posts. So I don't know what's up with Rondo.

Thanks, Dizzy. I don't have anything else to say about this right now, but I might if/when Rondo pipes in.

[Dyslexicon]

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

Speaking of weak vote on me,
Creature's vote is weak. The vote in itself is fine, but the explanation is lacking.
Finger's vote right after is worse imo. Because there is no reasoning, only something posing as it. And this at a time where our wagons were tied.

I don't know, but I somehow doubt that they both are mafia piling on. Could happen, but "meh".