Halvøsen Ridge [MAFIA WIN]

[Boquise]

I've just woken up. Give me a bit to catch up, I see I have a couple of notifications.

Don't flip out on me, it was all Boq's fault tbh

what the fuck dizzy
you voted first tbh

[Dyslexicon]

We're not in Kansas anymore!

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Best argument for Ender being town, go

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Best argument for Ender being town, go

@anyone

[Boquise]

@Boquise i wasn’t planning on bringing it up because it’s about me, subjective, and not really something proveable but I don’t buy Alison here:

The only point of hesitation for me is the fact that she looked weirdly uninformed about the Boquise thing. But I don't think it's clearing - maybe scum chat is dead, maybe she checks scum chat as infrequently as she checks the main thread (which would make sense if she's busy IRL), maybe she's just savvy enough to fake a derp clear. She did fool us all in Fargo.

It's not enough to make me pull back from voting her.

Kinda wishy washy

And I don’t believe I fooled anyone in Fargo. My team was all killed pretty early, I struggled then was pretty much unanimously voted for as I trolled everyone on my way out since it was so obvious? I don’t recall it all which is why I tried to look it up but meh hard to prove. Just seems like the “hesitation” she mentions is forced and preemptive for when I come back as town

(this answers my which and why game question from before)
Why is it wishy-washy, or rather, scummy wishy-washiness?

I don’t know if wishy washy is the right word I was looking for tbh but it’s like she took what someone used to “clear” or “townread” me and discredited it some but with a lot of maybes and references a game in which as I said was absolutely not a strong one for me

hm
but i had not cleared you for that before this post tbh

given that i made this correction, how does this change your read? @fingersplints

[Alison]

I vored Dizzy because he went from just being lower activity to openly luxuriating in it and declaring himself comfortable/townie in his state of doing nothing in a way that feels like a refuge in audacity.

Ender's continued refusal to explain his reads hits the same notes for me. I am struggling to understand why they would approach the game like this if they are town.

Hmm
Have you not played with town playing suboptimally for their faction before tbh?

I have played with townies who play in anti-town ways. They are, unsurprisingly, much rarer than wolves who play in anti-town ways. I generally have no regret killing them anyway if they're going to be liabilities.

oh you are awake!

hmmmm
i hard disagree on them being much rarer than wolves. Otherwise town's win rate in champs would be upside down tbh

I mean it depends on the quality of the playerlist. Champs finales are going to have much less town trolling than the average anime forum casual game. This playerlist has a high quality, and Dizzy and Ender in specific are town players I respect, and who should know better than this.

Regardless of those considerations, if for whatever reason someone insists on being stubbornly anti-town and refuses to budge, I have no qualms in removing them from the game. They could easily be scum, and even if they're town, we don't lose much. I certainly wouldn't want them around in endgame.

(I see Dizzy has opened up a bit more since I originally made that post; I'm explaining my general philosophy towards people who openly do anti-town things.)

[Boquise]

Best argument for Ender being town, go

i think their play doesnt make much sense from a wolf pov in this game tbh

[fingersplints]

@Boquise i wasn’t planning on bringing it up because it’s about me, subjective, and not really something proveable but I don’t buy Alison here:

The only point of hesitation for me is the fact that she looked weirdly uninformed about the Boquise thing. But I don't think it's clearing - maybe scum chat is dead, maybe she checks scum chat as infrequently as she checks the main thread (which would make sense if she's busy IRL), maybe she's just savvy enough to fake a derp clear. She did fool us all in Fargo.

It's not enough to make me pull back from voting her.

Kinda wishy washy

And I don’t believe I fooled anyone in Fargo. My team was all killed pretty early, I struggled then was pretty much unanimously voted for as I trolled everyone on my way out since it was so obvious? I don’t recall it all which is why I tried to look it up but meh hard to prove. Just seems like the “hesitation” she mentions is forced and preemptive for when I come back as town

(this answers my which and why game question from before)
Why is it wishy-washy, or rather, scummy wishy-washiness?

I don’t know if wishy washy is the right word I was looking for tbh but it’s like she took what someone used to “clear” or “townread” me and discredited it some but with a lot of maybes and references a game in which as I said was absolutely not a strong one for me

hm
but i had not cleared you for that before this post tbh

given that i made this correction, how does this change your read? @fingersplints

Doesn’t really since the thing that drew me to it was the Fargo bit not specifically in relation to you

[Alison]

I changed my mind.

I want this back.

[VOTE: Marmot] aubergine

What moved you? I think Marmot's posts lately have been fine.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think Ender's sporadic unwillingness to cooperate is rand>town tbh

Why? I can see mafia motivation for it (not giving info to town, lowering engagement, covering up TMI). What's the town motivation?

Mostly basing it on experience.
There really isn't a town motivation for it, which is the key. Scum knows that and knows that people suspect them if they withhold information. Town can imo play in a more "selfish" (for the lack of better words) manner tbh

I think Ender should be pushed still because my experience takes aren't 100% tbh

Is this still the gist of it, Boq?

[Boquise]

I vored Dizzy because he went from just being lower activity to openly luxuriating in it and declaring himself comfortable/townie in his state of doing nothing in a way that feels like a refuge in audacity.

Ender's continued refusal to explain his reads hits the same notes for me. I am struggling to understand why they would approach the game like this if they are town.

Hmm
Have you not played with town playing suboptimally for their faction before tbh?

I have played with townies who play in anti-town ways. They are, unsurprisingly, much rarer than wolves who play in anti-town ways. I generally have no regret killing them anyway if they're going to be liabilities.

oh you are awake!

hmmmm
i hard disagree on them being much rarer than wolves. Otherwise town's win rate in champs would be upside down tbh

I mean it depends on the quality of the playerlist. Champs finales are going to have much less town trolling than the average anime forum casual game. This playerlist has a high quality, and Dizzy and Ender in specific are town players I respect, and who should know better than this.

Regardless of those considerations, if for whatever reason someone insists on being stubbornly anti-town and refuses to budge, I have no qualms in removing them from the game. They could easily be scum, and even if they're town, we don't lose much. I certainly wouldn't want them around in endgame.

(I see Dizzy has opened up a bit more since I originally made that post; I'm explaining my general philosophy towards people who openly do anti-town things.)

I am talking more about champ qualis tho tbh

hmm alright
I mean that is fair.

The problem I have is that your approach here is the one I have seen scum replicate the most. As in, go by what is textbook scummy tbh

[fingersplints]

i don’t think she’ll respond to you @Boquise because she’s in UK

It’s only 10:30 in the UK

I'm thinking about voting you.

Do you think the heat/pressure/votes you've gotten is justified, or no?

Some of the suspicion is legit, some not.

What suspicions are justified?

Does anyone pushing you look particularly wolfy?

My vote for falcon was weak with little context.

TBD

[Boquise]

I think Ender's sporadic unwillingness to cooperate is rand>town tbh

Why? I can see mafia motivation for it (not giving info to town, lowering engagement, covering up TMI). What's the town motivation?

Mostly basing it on experience.
There really isn't a town motivation for it, which is the key. Scum knows that and knows that people suspect them if they withhold information. Town can imo play in a more "selfish" (for the lack of better words) manner tbh

I think Ender should be pushed still because my experience takes aren't 100% tbh

Is this still the gist of it, Boq?

yea

[Creature]

lol at this playerlist being high-quality yet we failing to find wolves

[NateTheLesser]

Best argument for Ender being town, go

He seems very different from our qualifier, where he was a wolf. By different I mean he seemed perfectly able to project towniness and do towny solving, and he's doing neither of those things here, which is a quandary because it's both "less towny" and "less like the wolf meta I'm familiar with" which are at odds.

VCA wise he rejoined the Falcon wagon as the 7th vote an hour or so before EOD, which I'm not sure why he'd do if he knew it was going to be a town flip.

[Boquise]

@Boquise i wasn’t planning on bringing it up because it’s about me, subjective, and not really something proveable but I don’t buy Alison here:

The only point of hesitation for me is the fact that she looked weirdly uninformed about the Boquise thing. But I don't think it's clearing - maybe scum chat is dead, maybe she checks scum chat as infrequently as she checks the main thread (which would make sense if she's busy IRL), maybe she's just savvy enough to fake a derp clear. She did fool us all in Fargo.

It's not enough to make me pull back from voting her.

Kinda wishy washy

And I don’t believe I fooled anyone in Fargo. My team was all killed pretty early, I struggled then was pretty much unanimously voted for as I trolled everyone on my way out since it was so obvious? I don’t recall it all which is why I tried to look it up but meh hard to prove. Just seems like the “hesitation” she mentions is forced and preemptive for when I come back as town

(this answers my which and why game question from before)
Why is it wishy-washy, or rather, scummy wishy-washiness?

I don’t know if wishy washy is the right word I was looking for tbh but it’s like she took what someone used to “clear” or “townread” me and discredited it some but with a lot of maybes and references a game in which as I said was absolutely not a strong one for me

hm
but i had not cleared you for that before this post tbh

given that i made this correction, how does this change your read? @fingersplints

Doesn’t really since the thing that drew me to it was the Fargo bit not specifically in relation to you

mmmh maybe I misread
Who is the someone in:
"she took what someone used to “clear” or “townread” me and discredited it"?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

yea

Would you say someone that plays a close-to-the-vest game as town wouldn't do the same as mafia?

[Boquise]

Best argument for Ender being town, go

He seems very different from our qualifier, where he was a wolf. By different I mean he seemed perfectly able to project towniness and do towny solving, and he's doing neither of those things here, which is a quandary because it's both "less towny" and "less like the wolf meta I'm familiar with" which are at odds.

VCA wise he rejoined the Falcon wagon as the 7th vote an hour or so before EOD, which I'm not sure why he'd do if he knew it was going to be a town flip.

wait is Ender Blade?

[robyn]

lol at this playerlist being high-quality yet we failing to find wolves

that is proof of concept

[Boquise]

yea

Would you say someone that plays a close-to-the-vest game as town wouldn't do the same as mafia?

depends.
i think they would feel more pressure to not do that tbh

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Best argument for Ender being town, go

He seems very different from our qualifier, where he was a wolf. By different I mean he seemed perfectly able to project towniness and do towny solving, and he's doing neither of those things here, which is a quandary because it's both "less towny" and "less like the wolf meta I'm familiar with" which are at odds.

VCA wise he rejoined the Falcon wagon as the 7th vote an hour or so before EOD, which I'm not sure why he'd do if he knew it was going to be a town flip.

[Creature]

In most worlds I would call JJJ wolfy for voteplanting on me earlier. However, I'm forgiving him because at least he seems to be deciding where to go and also I expe t him to be nightkilled soon anyway.

[Creature]

I think I've sorta changed my mind on Nate. I don't really see him as wolf anymore, though this is not a lock.

[NateTheLesser]

Best argument for Ender being town, go

He seems very different from our qualifier, where he was a wolf. By different I mean he seemed perfectly able to project towniness and do towny solving, and he's doing neither of those things here, which is a quandary because it's both "less towny" and "less like the wolf meta I'm familiar with" which are at odds.

VCA wise he rejoined the Falcon wagon as the 7th vote an hour or so before EOD, which I'm not sure why he'd do if he knew it was going to be a town flip.

wait is Ender Blade?

The very same.

[Creature]

[VOTE: Dyslexicon] aubergine

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think I've sorta changed my mind on Nate. I don't really see him as wolf anymore, though this is not a lock.

what sells you on that

[Creature]

Huh wait

EnderWiggin = bladescape?

[Boquise]

Best argument for Ender being town, go

He seems very different from our qualifier, where he was a wolf. By different I mean he seemed perfectly able to project towniness and do towny solving, and he's doing neither of those things here, which is a quandary because it's both "less towny" and "less like the wolf meta I'm familiar with" which are at odds.

VCA wise he rejoined the Falcon wagon as the 7th vote an hour or so before EOD, which I'm not sure why he'd do if he knew it was going to be a town flip.

wait is Ender Blade?

The very same.

[Creature]

I think I've sorta changed my mind on Nate. I don't really see him as wolf anymore, though this is not a lock.

what sells you on that

Mostly his posts. At least I'm not seeing blatant agenda like Dyslexicon.

[Alison]

I am talking more about champ qualis tho tbh

hmm alright
I mean that is fair.

The problem I have is that your approach here is the one I have seen scum replicate the most. As in, go by what is textbook scummy tbh

I think this playerlist is significantly less likely to have blatant anti-town behavior than your average champ qualis, which is why it was concerning that both Dizzy and Ender have decided to act up.

Do you think I wouldn't go after textbook scummy behavior as town?

[Alison]

lol at this playerlist being high-quality yet we failing to find wolves

We had one misexe. Calm down.

[Boquise]

brb i am entering the black lodge

[JaggedJimmyJay]

At least I'm not seeing blatant agenda like Dyslexicon.

Please tell me more about Dizzy's agenda

[Seanzie]

[VOTE: Fingersplints] aubergine

[Alison]

Huh wait

EnderWiggin = bladescape?

Yes. I thought everyone knew this.

[Boquise]

I am talking more about champ qualis tho tbh

hmm alright
I mean that is fair.

The problem I have is that your approach here is the one I have seen scum replicate the most. As in, go by what is textbook scummy tbh

I think this playerlist is significantly less likely to have blatant anti-town behavior than your average champ qualis, which is why it was concerning that both Dizzy and Ender have decided to act up.

Do you think I wouldn't go after textbook scummy behavior as town?

eh idk about that

not sure, which is why i have asked around tbh. I dont know your level of nuance when making your reads tbh

[Seanzie]

Wait, Ender is the same person as...

okay, now i'm just being facetious.

[Alison]

Noting that no one reacted to me saying I'd want to check Alison

I also thought about Alison, partly because her sussing me and then agreeing with me in her case on Fingersplints makes me paranoid :P

Also, I think your point about Fingersplints (that she would have known as wolf that you were widely townread yesterday) is a fair one. Was there more to it than that or is that enough for you to townlean?

I don't really sus you any more.

[NateTheLesser]

Best argument for Ender being town, go

He seems very different from our qualifier, where he was a wolf. By different I mean he seemed perfectly able to project towniness and do towny solving, and he's doing neither of those things here, which is a quandary because it's both "less towny" and "less like the wolf meta I'm familiar with" which are at odds.

VCA wise he rejoined the Falcon wagon as the 7th vote an hour or so before EOD, which I'm not sure why he'd do if he knew it was going to be a town flip.

:ponder: :ponder: :ponder:

VCA addendum: Creature started the Blade wagon right around the same time Blade switched to Falcon. I don't remember if Creature was talking about a Blade flash wagon prior to that, which would be a reason to switch to Falcon (and I could see from either alignment).

[Dyslexicon]

I think I've sorta changed my mind on Nate. I don't really see him as wolf anymore, though this is not a lock.

what sells you on that

Mostly his posts. At least I'm not seeing blatant agenda like Dyslexicon.

Wait what. That's like the opposite of what's happening

[Dyslexicon]

In related news, I was about to town lean on Create from him demanding it.

And I will end up having troubles with too many town leans.

[Boquise]

Is this just how Ender plays? Incredibly mysterious and chaotic?

Sometimes.

I'd say this is me when I'm having fun vs being serious.

Which is not AI, it's RLI.

You will see me be serious in Champs because pressure/expectation.

You might see me be serious on Syndicate.

mmmhhmm

[Alison]

I am talking more about champ qualis tho tbh

hmm alright
I mean that is fair.

The problem I have is that your approach here is the one I have seen scum replicate the most. As in, go by what is textbook scummy tbh

I think this playerlist is significantly less likely to have blatant anti-town behavior than your average champ qualis, which is why it was concerning that both Dizzy and Ender have decided to act up.

Do you think I wouldn't go after textbook scummy behavior as town?

eh idk about that

not sure, which is why i have asked around tbh. I dont know your level of nuance when making your reads tbh

I would. Lots of people here can corroborate.

[Dyslexicon]

Can one of y'all scumbums just slip up in a way that I catch so I can tunnel you into oblivion and die N1? I'm starting to get the feeling that this game will actually take some work, so if we can make that not happen, I'd appreciate it.

I'm a simp, and this is not the reason necessarily, but I'm about to have Sean join Townsville

[NateTheLesser]

Noting that no one reacted to me saying I'd want to check Alison 🎵

I also thought about Alison, partly because her sussing me and then agreeing with me in her case on Fingersplints makes me paranoid :P

Also, I think your point about Fingersplints (that she would have known as wolf that you were widely townread yesterday) is a fair one. Was there more to it than that or is that enough for you to townlean?

I don't really sus you any more.

👍

It was just a rapid turnaround from suspicion of me to agreeing with me. (Not that you can't suspect someone you agree with)

[Alison]

@RondoDimBuckle, Alison has placed a vote on your head. Please talk about that and thanks

It is a thing she has done . I dont really care too much because I knew it was coming and it makes me happy

Why would someone attacking you make you happy?

Because I am a giant troll and love when I can elicit an emotional reaction from people. Ala, you entering thread and insta voting me. Its predictability is food for the soul. It just makes me happy

You didn't exactly jump for joy though. I said I suspected you, you were like "ha ha ha, I knew it!" and then proceeded to steadfastly ignore me from then until now. I didn't get the impression you were trying to fish reactions out of me or that you felt particularly gleeful. I'd expect a troll who really wanted me to attack them to at least tease or bait me once or twice, but you've mostly ignored me, even in the face of constant provocation (ie. me talking about you a bunch).

I really dislike this post a lot.

Such complete unnecessary construction of bs.

So I'm interested in Alison now.

What about this is BS?

[Boquise]

okay so I just finished reading the whole G1 mmkay.
And I know it is different contexts etc but eh

Blade in G1 was very accommodating and widely town read. Not here.
the gameplay fit utr scum play.
It always felt like Blade put himself exactly in the thread hierarchy so players wouldnt forget that it is weird that he is still alive.

What they have in common is that in both games, Ender has not really pushed hard at all. And that he is pockety.
i am super tired

[Boquise]

I am talking more about champ qualis tho tbh

hmm alright
I mean that is fair.

The problem I have is that your approach here is the one I have seen scum replicate the most. As in, go by what is textbook scummy tbh

I think this playerlist is significantly less likely to have blatant anti-town behavior than your average champ qualis, which is why it was concerning that both Dizzy and Ender have decided to act up.

Do you think I wouldn't go after textbook scummy behavior as town?

eh idk about that

not sure, which is why i have asked around tbh. I dont know your level of nuance when making your reads tbh

I would. Lots of people here can corroborate.

Yes, JJJ confirmed it tbh

[Dyslexicon]

@RondoDimBuckle, Alison has placed a vote on your head. Please talk about that and thanks

It is a thing she has done . I dont really care too much because I knew it was coming and it makes me happy

Why would someone attacking you make you happy?

Because I am a giant troll and love when I can elicit an emotional reaction from people. Ala, you entering thread and insta voting me. Its predictability is food for the soul. It just makes me happy

You didn't exactly jump for joy though. I said I suspected you, you were like "ha ha ha, I knew it!" and then proceeded to steadfastly ignore me from then until now. I didn't get the impression you were trying to fish reactions out of me or that you felt particularly gleeful. I'd expect a troll who really wanted me to attack them to at least tease or bait me once or twice, but you've mostly ignored me, even in the face of constant provocation (ie. me talking about you a bunch).

I really dislike this post a lot.

Such complete unnecessary construction of bs.

So I'm interested in Alison now.

What about this is BS?

Expecting him to jump for joy because he, when prompted, said he felt joy from your suss (which could've just as easily been a joke in itself). Why would you expect him to do anything? He already "won", considering you did attack him as he expected.

So expectations I don't know why you would have. All the words are kind of unnecessary tbh

[Boquise]

this part wasnt as helpful as the first reply, but thanks anyway tbh!

i feel like a customer service representative

sorry about that ):