Dr. Who Mafia - Night 12

[Chris]

I'm not suggesting going off of a DF lynch. I think he MUST be lynched. Over and over and over.

Before I tell you what I'm thinking... tell me this if you can.

What day did you find Rose Tyler?

[Tangrowth]

I'm not suggesting going off of a DF lynch. I think he MUST be lynched. Over and over and over.

Before I tell you what I'm thinking... tell me this if you can.

What day did you find Rose Tyler?

Last night, actually.

[Chris]

Never mind then.

I'm lost again.

[Chris]

*EBWOP

I mean, I 'm lost on that last Cyber role.

[Tangrowth]

Never mind then.

I'm lost again.

Damn.

Is it possible we could be looking at 2 living Cybers? That's actually what I was thinking earlier, though I'm less sure now. Maybe one of them was NKed.

Anyway, really need to get going back to studying now, hopefully some others who haven't yet weighed in since recent discussion will do so. I think we're still probably headed a good way this lynch regardless; we have some good options.

[Chris]

For the record, I think there are 3, possible 4 Cybers alive. (The 4th being based on my belief that the body is the secret role)

[Tangrowth]

Lol, I just can't stay away.

I don't think the Cybers would get an additional role over the Daleks without compensation for the Daleks, so I doubt that.

Who was your suspect that you were talking about anyway, Chris?

[Chris]

I'm not suggesting going off of a DF lynch. I think he MUST be lynched. Over and over and over.

Before I tell you what I'm thinking... tell me this if you can.

What day did you find Rose Tyler?

I fucked this up. (Talking about too many people)

When did you find Martha Jones?

[Chris]

And I think the Cybers got an extra role for the body. It satisfies two things for me. A role for the body, and a role for the secret. The only thing that fucks me up is the balance.

That's why I asked if there was any way it would make sense that both baddie teams could look for it? Like, if the Daleks found the Body, they could do some kind of experiment that would help them.

I asked this before, but it was sorta shot down, and I abandoned it.

[Tangrowth]

I'm not suggesting going off of a DF lynch. I think he MUST be lynched. Over and over and over.

Before I tell you what I'm thinking... tell me this if you can.

What day did you find Rose Tyler?

I fucked this up. (Talking about too many people)

When did you find Martha Jones?

I just realized that I wonder if answering these kind of questions is infodumping, even though my role is outed, lol. Hopefully it isn't.

[Tangrowth]

And I think the Cybers got an extra role for the body. It satisfies two things for me. A role for the body, and a role for the secret. The only thing that fucks me up is the balance.

That's why I asked if there was any way it would make sense that both baddie teams could look for it? Like, if the Daleks found the Body, they could do some kind of experiment that would help them.

I asked this before, but it was sorta shot down, and I abandoned it.

Personally, I think it's way more likely that the body was just randomly assigned to some number or person, and the Head searched a different "place" every night. Does that make sense?

[Chris]

I'm not suggesting going off of a DF lynch. I think he MUST be lynched. Over and over and over.

Before I tell you what I'm thinking... tell me this if you can.

What day did you find Rose Tyler?

I fucked this up. (Talking about too many people)

When did you find Martha Jones?

I just realized that I wonder if answering these kind of questions is infodumping, even though my role is outed, lol. Hopefully it isn't.

I hear ya. Let me put it this way. If you found her before day 4, I have a very good idea who the other Cyber is. I can make a case whether you answer this or not.

If it was after day four, then it can 't be true.

And I think the Cybers got an extra role for the body. It satisfies two things for me. A role for the body, and a role for the secret. The only thing that fucks me up is the balance.

That's why I asked if there was any way it would make sense that both baddie teams could look for it? Like, if the Daleks found the Body, they could do some kind of experiment that would help them.

I asked this before, but it was sorta shot down, and I abandoned it.

Personally, I think it's way more likely that the body was just randomly assigned to some number or person, and the Head searched a different "place" every night. Does that make sense?

Yeah. But that last unknown role... It drives me CRAZY, and I need to put a role in there. Also, we'll know when we lynch the 4th known Cyber if that unknown role is the Body or not.

What do you think the last unknown role is?

[Tangrowth]

Martha was after day four.

I honestly have no idea what that last unknown role is, I could think of a bunch of potentials. Enrique said something about Weeping Angel, so I guess if he wasn't lying that'd be my best guess. But he very well could have been lying.

[Tangrowth]

I'm curious, Chris, why did you drop Epig from being a Cyber candidate?

I still don't think he is likely, but I'm curious why you changed your mind.

[Chris]

I'm curious, Chris, why did you drop Epig from being a Cyber candidate?

I still don't think he is likely, but I'm curious why you changed your mind.

[Tangrowth]

I'm curious, Chris, why did you drop Epig from being a Cyber candidate?

I still don't think he is likely, but I'm curious why you changed your mind.

Lol, what does that mean?

[Chris]

It means the my belief on whether or not I believe him is based on whether or not I can put someone else in that role, sprinkled in with the fact that he stopped thinking I was The Master and a little bit of his agreement with the assessment of the Faraday situation.

If I can put a different player in the role I have for him, it would clear him. But for me to put that player in that role, you'd either have to be mistaken, or lying. Or that other player isn't in his role.

That's why my judgement on Epig has become

If I believe you, then Epig can be that role again...

[Tangrowth]

It means the my belief on whether or not I believe him is based on whether or not I can put someone else in that role, sprinkled in with the fact that he stopped thinking I was The Master and a little bit of his agreement with the assessment of the Faraday situation.

If I can put a different player in the role I have for him, it would clear him. But for me to put that player in that role, you'd either have to be mistaken, or lying. Or that other player isn't in his role.

That's why my judgement on Epig has become

If I believe you, then Epig can be that role again...

Oh, okay.

I'm a bit confused, but I suppose we can revisit a third Cyber when we need to, since I'm almost positive Bass and Snowy are two of them.

[Chris]

Reading The Head role description again... the body is an event, not a role.

WHAT IS THAT LAST ROLE?

[Epignosis]

Beautiful day. Watched the kids play while I tossed back a Blue Moon Farmhouse Red and picked the shit out of my twelve string. Tell you what, if I'd had any sense yesterday at the grocery store, I'd have bought a bag of charcoal and a rack of ribs.

However, Epig, why did you eliminate Chris from the possibilities? I missed that. Is it just because you assume he is who he says he is? I don't really think Chris is The Master at this point either, but am curious how you eliminated him.

Unlike Chris ( ) I prefer as few things to be true as possible for my conclusion to be right. For him to be The Master (from my perspective) three things have to be assumed, and one of those I am not comfortable with. Also, for the record, my lingering suspicion of him was that he is recruited or the recruiter, not necessarily The Master, but I'm leaning away from that too now. I'm sorry if that's vaguer than you prefer, but that's all I'm saying at this time.

[Epignosis]

I read over that post twice and only now see how stupid that sounded: "Prefer as few things to be true as possible" should be understood as "prefer as few assumptions as possible."

I was out in the sun. With screaming children. Drinking. Leave me be.

[Tangrowth]

Beautiful day. Watched the kids play while I tossed back a Blue Moon Farmhouse Red and picked the shit out of my twelve string. Tell you what, if I'd had any sense yesterday at the grocery store, I'd have bought a bag of charcoal and a rack of ribs.

However, Epig, why did you eliminate Chris from the possibilities? I missed that. Is it just because you assume he is who he says he is? I don't really think Chris is The Master at this point either, but am curious how you eliminated him.

Unlike Chris ( ) I prefer as few things to be true as possible for my conclusion to be right. For him to be The Master (from my perspective) three things have to be assumed, and one of those I am not comfortable with. Also, for the record, my lingering suspicion of him was that he is recruited or the recruiter, not necessarily The Master, but I'm leaning away from that too now. I'm sorry if that's vaguer than you prefer, but that's all I'm saying at this time.

Makes sense. No, that's helpful anyway, thanks!

[Hedgeowl]

Alright, I think I understand everything going on currently and while I applaud others finally showing some attention to DF, I am going to stick with my Bass vote after that lynch switch. There's a chance he could be the controller and therefore not NK'd. If DF is likely the master, then I think I will let the kills next Night target him since that might be more effective. He has already been the target of Strax once and the Cybers and Strax could easily take him out tonight if that were the case.

Linki lol Chris, I hear ya.

Linki Epi I think your first statement works sometimes too.

[Chris]

Hedgie, the next two NKs would only leave him alive with no more protections.

It's kinda now for a lynch for him, if you believe he's The Master.

Bass as the Cyber controller is not as big a threat. We know who he is. He has no night actions other then the NK, which we need to kill The Master.

Besides, voting the guy who we need to take a swipe at The Master... I mean, that's kinda rude, isn't it?

Listen, I'm not one to tell you how to vote, I'm just asking you to think about it.

[Chris]

TH indicated that his target didn't go where he wanted it on night 8.

Somebody else said that others said the same thing? Can that be confirmed?

How confident are we that The Master used his randomizer night 8?

[Chris]

[quote=The Master secrets]Due to his strong ability as a hypnotist, once in the game he can force every night action that night to be randomly redirected to someone other than the original target. This is up to and including kill attempts.[/quote]

Randomly redirected to someone other than the original.

He can still be hit by a randomized action, right?

[DFaraday]

Hedgie, the next two NKs would only leave him alive with no more protections.

It's kinda now for a lynch for him, if you believe he's The Master.

Bass as the Cyber controller is not as big a threat. We know who he is. He has no night actions other then the NK, which we need to kill The Master.

Besides, voting the guy who we need to take a swipe at The Master... I mean, that's kinda rude, isn't it?

Listen, I'm not one to tell you how to vote, I'm just asking you to think about it.

This is all assuming I am the Master. If I get lynched, you will simply be down a civvie, and the Cybermen AND the Master will all still be in play. And I'll have been another civvie the Doctor failed to save. I just don't understand why so many people are willing to eschew lynching almost certain baddies in favor of a vague case that says I'm too blendy. None of this is making sense to me. I'm not saying you're bad, Chris, but certainly there are some baddies in this awkward push for me.

[zeek]

DF, who do you think the Master is? Surely he's likely going to be under the radar, like yourself, so how else can a case be formed?

[Chris]

Here's the problem DF.

If Elo is Sarah Jane, then her 50/50 could have saved her. If it did, Strax didn't use his civ save. If it didn't, Strax did use one of his civ saves.

I know he used a civ save on me.

He may have used one on you, but he may not have.

And if Strax thinks that waiting until day 12 to target DF again is the way to go, wrong he's. Because he don't even know how many saves he has.

However, I can guarantee him used one up on me.


But anyway DF, basically it comes down to The Master is either you or Elo, since it's not me.

These say a lot for me too:

BR, did you say you felt very confident of Elo being a civ? Can you elaborate?

Unless she's recruited I am confidant that she is a civvie. It's hard to elaborate as it's hard to explain ones beliefs. When she was targeted for a kill she was a civvie. I don't know what's going on with these recruitments, I don't know if it was just one recruitment or unlimited. For now I trust her.

Well I think the idea of Elo being The Master is definitely wrong so won't spend too much time on it. You said your case was vote records based, and I was going to point out that Elo voted for MM over Epi on the day where they were tied. Elo had previously expressed suspicion of Epi2.0 as well so I think that move would not make any sense at all for Elo to make if she had BTSC with MM. I thought it was preposterous that you even suggest it and it made me think you had some nefarious reason to bring it up to BR without fully researching it first.

And then lastly, that lynch switch that for some reason didn't go to you.

I just feel that you're The Master. And if I'm wrong, then you're The Cyber Controller. But I think you're The Master.



But don't get down, if I'm right, you'll still be here after the lynch.

[zeek]

If Elo is Sarah Jane, then her 50/50 could have saved her.

That's not who I have as Sarah Jane.

[Epignosis]

Eloh is not Sarah Jane.

[Epignosis]

Woah- didn't see you there zeek.

[DFaraday]

DF, who do you think the Master is? Surely he's likely going to be under the radar, like yourself, so how else can a case be formed?

I am considering Dom and Ninja as possibilities, although I don't really have any evidence since, as you pointed out, since we don't know the Master as having BTSC with anyone it does make finding him difficult. I also don't want to excuse Chris from that role, just because everyone seems to have accepted at face value that he's a civ. I just think that it's a terrible strategy to let virtually confirmed baddies be and go lynching people based on hunches. The circle must be broken.

EBWOP: So you've determined that nobody else in the game could be the Master except Elo? That's...implausible.

[Epignosis]

DF, who do you think the Master is? Surely he's likely going to be under the radar, like yourself, so how else can a case be formed?

I am considering Dom and Ninja as possibilities, although I don't really have any evidence since, as you pointed out, since we don't know the Master as having BTSC with anyone it does make finding him difficult.

Dom and Nijuu, zeek.

[zeek]

You're not wrong but the only confirmed baddie is MM. You seem quite genuine atm, I may have to switch back.

linki - You suspect DF for agreeing with you?

[Epignosis]

linki - You suspect DF for agreeing with you?

No. Because he said this:

Dom has been a question mark to me all game, but I at least feel confident that he's not a Cyberman (because I suspect the Cybermen to be some combination of Bass, SD, and Epig).

Ninja: No idea.

That was today.

[DFaraday]

DF, who do you think the Master is? Surely he's likely going to be under the radar, like yourself, so how else can a case be formed?

I am considering Dom and Ninja as possibilities, although I don't really have any evidence since, as you pointed out, since we don't know the Master as having BTSC with anyone it does make finding him difficult.

Dom and Nijuu, zeek.

Not because you said them, just because they don't seem to be accounted for in any direction. I have Keys, MP, Zeek, Chris(?)and maybe Gotrees as civ, and you, MM, SD, and Bass as bad. Ninja and Dom, along with JC, whom I mentioned earlier, are just kind of in the middle, and so I wonder if one of them might be the one.

EBWOP: Exactly. I have no idea who they are, and thus they seem like plausible possibilities for this role which has not been accounted for.

[S~V~S]

If Elo is Sarah Jane, then her 50/50 could have saved her.

That's not who I have as Sarah Jane.

Thats not who I have as Sarah Jane, either

[zeek]

You're right. This looks bad. Lot of NO U's.

[zeek]

If Elo is Sarah Jane, then her 50/50 could have saved her.

That's not who I have as Sarah Jane.

Thats not who I have as Sarah Jane, either

I thought not.

[Chris]

If Elo is supposed to be Rory, then LC would be dead as Amy after the first NK attempt. There would not have been a save from Rory as it would have been used up by Strax.

[Chris]

I want to point out, in one part of my argument on why DF was The Master, I stated that when he voted for Elo, he said that one of the reasons was because she survived a NK. I said that he ignored Strax's civ save thing.

A PM to the host confirmed that at the time DF said this, it was not in Strax's role that the first three civs would not be killed.

I just wanted to clarify that.

[DFaraday]

I want to point out, in one part of my argument on why DF was The Master, I stated that when he voted for Elo, he said that one of the reasons was because she survived a NK. I said that he ignored Strax's civ save thing.

A PM to the host confirmed that at the time DF said this, it was not in Strax's role that the first three civs would not be killed.

I just wanted to clarify that.

Thank you for your honesty, sir.

[Chris]

Reading back on Elo, I'm not sure I"m convinced she's not Sarah Jane, but I am even more convinced she's not The Master.

She has been anti blendy if you will... Often voicing her unpopular opinion.

I'm sorry DF, I'm looking for ways for me to be wrong, and I'm not finding them.

[zeek]

Bass and Snowy haven't voted yet.

[Chris]

The poll ends in just under 5.5 hours...

[DFaraday]

Bass and Snowy haven't voted yet.

Three guesses which way Snow will vote.

[S~V~S]

The poll ends in just under 5.5 hours...

Think of all the posts you can make in that time

And maybe you should reread Elo some more~

[Tangrowth]

I don't have Elo pegged as Sarah Jane either.

Bah, I can't decide how to feel about DF after those responses.

I won't argue with a Bass lynch, and it seems more of a sure thing, but catching The Master is more imperative. So I'd like to lynch The Master, even though it'll fail, despite the fact that Strax kills tonight, because then it'll give us information and Strax and Cyber can waste The Master tonight NK-wise. And I still think DF most likely fits that bill of The Master of anyone. But I'm not 100%. Whereas I'm pretty close to 100% on Bass being bad. And then there's the factor of is The Master recruited and is Bass a recruited Cyber or not, etc. Obviously catching someone who's been recruited would be even better, and it's probably more likely that The Master would be recruited before a random Cyber member, but you never know.

So overall I think it's probably a win-win... but I'll keep my vote where it is for now. I guess?

[zeek]

Bass and Snowy haven't voted yet.

Three guesses which way Snow will vote.

Thats whats making me think about my own vote. Seems likely they're teammates and for all I know their third member hasn't voted either. It does seem more certain they are bad.