Halvøsen Ridge [MAFIA WIN]

[Boquise]

Anyway, this kill indicates at least 1 scum inside Me/JJJ/Alison.

Alison wouldnt really be the kill if town though since she got sussed yesterday.

Why does the kill indicate that

Because whilst Seanzie was sorta towncored, he was not in the main trio of trusted players. Just how Sunbae dying N1 in G1 and then none of the Anne/Phighter/Zeus were touched by the NK indicated a wolf inside there.

[Boquise]

@Boquise give a full reads list

I have revoked most of my read list after seeing Wilgy flipping town. I have Rondo and Nate as my town base and will see where I land on everyone else tbh.

I'd like updated thoughts on finger + Ender if you're down to look at them.

I am! Everyone's on the table for now tbh. I am going to order some food, let my head unwind and then start re-reading the thread and stuff tbh

[Boquise]

@Boquise give a full reads list

I have revoked most of my read list after seeing Wilgy flipping town. I have Rondo and Nate as my town base and will see where I land on everyone else tbh.

that's why i'm asking for a new one

cant create something that doesnt exist yet tbh

[Boquise]

Anyway, this kill indicates at least 1 scum inside Me/JJJ/Alison.

Alison wouldnt really be the kill if town though since she got sussed yesterday.

I'm going to point back at a certain shirt pulling thing I got sussed a bunch over on D1.

Just saying

what

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Because whilst Seanzie was sorta towncored, he was not in the main trio of trusted players. Just how Sunbae dying N1 in G1 and then none of the Anne/Phighter/Zeus were touched by the NK indicated a wolf inside there.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

There were a few token answers to that question I thought I might receive. A comparison to one of the champs games wasn't one of them (and I have no clear memory of what happened in that game). I'll be ISOing you soon, Boq, so I'll see how I feel about that in proper context.

[Boquise]

i'mma sleep

my vote is on Wilgy because I think a player who has history (according to Marmot iirc) with mac should not crumble at Mac pressure tbh

I'm not a huge fan of describing Wilgy's response to Mac as "crumbling", or of the assertion that being familiar with Mac should neutralize the effects that Mac can have when Mac is being Mac. I'd appreciate it, Boq, if you could show me what you felt reflected a crumble.

Sure, it was not generous of me to say so since I based it off myself. It was this post in question:

Ah! An interesting conundrum! *Sits up from study and lifts paper to light*

Seanzie, can be scum in this scenario. When given the opportunity to expand thinking, a joke reply was given not even considering alternatives to the action of voting me.

EnderWiggin I do not have enough data on, this can be either way.

*Brings the paper back down and stands up, beginning to pace around his study*

Macdougall however intrigues me the most here. I do believe that Mac has a good read on me, but is either wrong or is wolf. I do wonder if town Mac pushes on me in effort to solve, but the fervor I see does not seem to indicate that this is in fact fishing. Yes, Mac who is good at reading me, I do not feel would commit this hard to a scum read on me at this point. This is potentially Scum Mac. I will review in the morning as it is time for the doctor to get some well deserved rest.

My studies on Jay the all consuming will continue tomorrow.

*Turns off the lights and exits stage left*

So do you think that town Mac should be townreading you for your play prior to this post? If so can you show me the parts where you've towntold to a degree where you'd expect me to notice?

I do not, but I do believe that town Mac would allow for more data before gauging someone he has a track record of reading correctly.

That is what's throwing me off. Your conclusion was drawn far more quickly than I'd expect.

However, the gusto I feel from your posts is in line to how I perceive town Mac. It is quite the contradiction.

Do you, Mac, feel as if your ability to read me has shifted at all in the past year? If so, do you feel it has improved or declined?

Maybe Mac plays differently here, but my expectation of town Mac is that he creates reads by tunnelling a player and looking at what ripples that causes in the thread. Basically going in with a machine gun and "100% sure someone is scum". So your first sentence doesn't really vibe with my experience tbh

The error here is that Mac doesn't bull fake reads and if he does, he will often give up the act shortly. For the tunnel to exist, his read had to at least exist in partial.

Unfortunately for us, in further reading his posts so far, I think he's town, just, well, as the kids would say, "a dingus" in regards to his read on me.

Wilgy had previously made this post:

Spoiler: show

Ah! An interesting conundrum! *Sits up from study and lifts paper to light*

Seanzie, can be scum in this scenario. When given the opportunity to expand thinking, a joke reply was given not even considering alternatives to the action of voting me.

EnderWiggin I do not have enough data on, this can be either way.

*Brings the paper back down and stands up, beginning to pace around his study*

Macdougall however intrigues me the most here. I do believe that Mac has a good read on me, but is either wrong or is wolf. I do wonder if town Mac pushes on me in effort to solve, but the fervor I see does not seem to indicate that this is in fact fishing. Yes, Mac who is good at reading me, I do not feel would commit this hard to a scum read on me at this point. This is potentially Scum Mac. I will review in the morning as it is time for the doctor to get some well deserved rest.

My studies on Jay the all consuming will continue tomorrow.

*Turns off the lights and exits stage left*

So do you think that town Mac should be townreading you for your play prior to this post? If so can you show me the parts where you've towntold to a degree where you'd expect me to notice?

I do not, but I do believe that town Mac would allow for more data before gauging someone he has a track record of reading correctly.

That is what's throwing me off. Your conclusion was drawn far more quickly than I'd expect.

However, the gusto I feel from your posts is in line to how I perceive town Mac. It is quite the contradiction.

Do you, Mac, feel as if your ability to read me has shifted at all in the past year? If so, do you feel it has improved or declined?

First sentence, since when have you known me to not be bullish with making reads immediately? I don't think my track record of reading you is superb. I've read you wrong quite a lot. I think I read you poorly when we first started playing, went through a patch of reading you really well, and then when you came back from hiatus and started playing more intentionally I lost my ability to read you because you were playing entirely new again.

In this game you just seem to be making posts for the sake of it.

I expect bullishness yes, but I expect it to reflect data available. For what this concerns, I do not think the data was available for your vote to land on me. A read, maybe, but for that to entice your vote and to be your most sound read is what brought about my interest.

Thank you for the explanation. If you do believe my interactions with Seanzie, Rondo, EW, and Lucy so far did not achieve anything, you are mistaken. Further, If I were just posting to post, would I not have more posts currently however?

So far, my research and study have lead to concerns with Lucy and Seanzie. With Rondo and EnderWiggin, I have not yet seen anything that would imply wolf play.

JJJ I have in a slight focus as well as their early read on Lucy contradicts my own.

I do believe that ultimately it is still in our best interest to keep Jay the all Consuming from absorbing our own Jay.

I felt that the progression was wolfy. That Mac kept going at Wilgy and they were trying to get Mac to stop by giving out a town read on him. From my pov, that town read looked reluctant and therefore I said "crumbling". In the sense, wanted to make Mac's pushing cease.

Out of all players, you wanted to know Wilgy's alignment the most. Why did you not vote him?
I expect to see you have done some evaluations now since you said that information would help you remove some worlds.

[Boquise]

There were a few token answers to that question I thought I might receive. A comparison to one of the champs games wasn't one of them (and I have no clear memory of what happened in that game). I'll be ISOing you soon, Boq, so I'll see how I feel about that in proper context.

My mind is champs tbh

[Boquise]

I'm here, I'm queer and I'm ready to stare

I had a paranoid thought about you yesterday tbh, after mulling over you saying we play alike and stuff.

I think most people who knows me would be wolf reading me rn, because I am from an outsider's perspective loafing around and being "bored". Letting things transpire. I wonder if that is how you can sometimes play as scum too, in contexts like this tbh

That's nice.

*internal screaming*

[JaggedJimmyJay]

There were a few token answers to that question I thought I might receive. A comparison to one of the champs games wasn't one of them (and I have no clear memory of what happened in that game). I'll be ISOing you soon, Boq, so I'll see how I feel about that in proper context.

My mind is champs tbh

Indeed, and that has non-zero meaning to me. Trying to draw direct relationships to the stuff you're jurororororing to positively impact your own involvement in this one is, at least, an appealing look.

I wish to respect your mafia-aligned game, because I don't know it at all. You also told me you love being evil. So I'll see.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Out of all players, you wanted to know Wilgy's alignment the most. Why did you not vote him?
I expect to see you have done some evaluations now since you said that information would help you remove some worlds.

A hypothetical cop check is quite different from voting someone out. I had said I didn't think he had a ton of good team fits, and that is important to me when I am deciding upon my vote. I will be taking Wilgy's flip significantly into account today as I review everyone. Walls are on the horizon.

[Boquise]

There were a few token answers to that question I thought I might receive. A comparison to one of the champs games wasn't one of them (and I have no clear memory of what happened in that game). I'll be ISOing you soon, Boq, so I'll see how I feel about that in proper context.

My mind is champs tbh

Indeed, and that has non-zero meaning to me. Trying to draw direct relationships to the stuff you're jurororororing to positively impact your own involvement in this one is, at least, an appealing look.

I wish to respect your mafia-aligned game, because I don't know it at all. You also told me you love being evil. So I'll see.

Kinda surprised that you did not expect me to draw parallells to those games, is all tbh!
It isn't really about positively impacting my involvement here, either. It is about drawing inspiration and thinking about traps. But either way, regardless of champ games, I think this kill implicates one of the top core because wolves do not want to minimise that "poe" (or whatever we can call it). That has actually not much to do with champs but more about standard pattern analysis.

[Boquise]

Out of all players, you wanted to know Wilgy's alignment the most. Why did you not vote him?
I expect to see you have done some evaluations now since you said that information would help you remove some worlds.

A hypothetical cop check is quite different from voting someone out. I had said I didn't think he had a ton of good team fits, and that is important to me when I am deciding upon my vote. I will be taking Wilgy's flip significantly into account today as I review everyone. Walls are on the horizon.

Perhaps. But it does give you the same results. You could look at yesterday and have Wilgy's flip as a cop check there tbh
Looking forward to them!

[NateTheLesser]

I'm pretty sure Creature is town.

Low key same.

Can you talk more about why you think Creature's EOD1 is clearing? Was it moving off Falcon to start the late wagon? Because that got town points from me, but then yesterday they really trended down. (I can give more specifics on this, but they came in asking why Finger was a wagon and then didn't actually seem interested in the answer. Just pings me as "I need to switch my vote but I should seem like I'm evaluating")

[Dyslexicon]

@JaggedJimmyJay GTH, am I town or mafia?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Meh

[VOTE: Wilgy] aubergine

Osmosis

@NateTheLesser, in your vote sheet, is this the Dizzy vote you have marked with ??? for the time?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@JaggedJimmyJay GTH, am I town or mafia?

If I absolutely must take a stance right this moment, town.

I am currently knee-deep in your ISO, so stand by.

[Dyslexicon]

Sure

You are appreciated.

The last thing I was hoping to achieve is the classical night kill analysis. Many people balk at the very idea of trying this, and I think they're wrong. Wifom is wifom blah blah, but we're remiss if we don't at least take a look. Moreover, in a mountainous game, at least one of the layers of wifom does not exist -- there are no doctor dodges. So it'd behoove us to review Mac and see where he sat. What we do with that I don't know right now, but we honor his memory enough to give him a voice.

If that's something that tickles you, I'd love to see what you come up with.

I kinda expected to be the kill because I was during D1 consensus town read with no on-going conflicts with other players. Whereas Mac, also highly town read, had a thing with Wilgy that could be exploited and easier to tinfoil because of Falcon and of site history*.

*What I mean with site history is that I am an unknown variable whilst Mac is a tried gun.

This tells me that Mac's reads can have threatened the woofs tbh

What could be exploited here?

[Creature]

[VOTE: EnderWiggin] aubergine

[NateTheLesser]

I'm not sure I agree as much as the rest of you that NKA points so strongly to a wolf in Jay/Boq/Alison, YET. I think that would be true if the thread consensus yesterday had been that there must be a wolf in those three, but that wasn't the thread consensus IMO. (Not that it couldn't be true, I just don't think the Sean kill should make us tinfoil that trio without other reasons to tinfoil).

[Creature]

I"m slightly suspecting JJJ now.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I"m slightly suspecting JJJ now.

Please talk about that and thank you.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm not sure I agree as much as the rest of you that NKA points so strongly to a wolf in Jay/Boq/Alison, YET. I think that would be true if the thread consensus yesterday had been that there must be a wolf in those three, but that wasn't the thread consensus IMO. (Not that it couldn't be true, I just don't think the Sean kill should make us tinfoil that trio without other reasons to tinfoil).

I'm not sure that I follow. Is there a way that you could re-word or re-state the orange portion?

[Dyslexicon]

We've been following Mac's legacy list so far though

What was this thought about by the by?

@Creature

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Let's ISO Dyslexicon

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

@Dyslexicon

I know it sounds like you have some out-of-game things keeping you waway form the thread, but if you find the time, can you ISO one of the following and give your thoughts:

NatetheLesser
Marmot
DrWilgy
Creature

All their ISOs are pretty short - less than one page or barely onto the second.

It sure sounds that way.

I don't usually get a lot out of ISO-ing, and especially when I have no clue what is going on in the game overall.
However, I'll make sure to do Marmot if I'm not able to read the game properly or satisfactory before EoD. Since you are asking so nicely.
He's the only one out of the bunch I think I can read reliably meta-wise.

Can you or someone tell me why Ender and Rondo are voting me?
Kind of cringe.

I can do three town reads without having read the game, just glanced on a few posts: Lucy, Boq, Creature.

How did I do?

Don't hold me to these when I get to reading, but they will probably be unchanged.

I read Creature's ISO. It wasn't great/didn't say much.

I read Alison's ISO. I agree with a town read there for two specific reasons, plus her posts are just overall fine. It's a little bit funny how she started off with town reading Creature and Falcon.

If Alison, Mac and Jimmay are all town, that's a good start. We'll see.

So I endorse whatever game state this is so far.

Marmot had one townie post that Alison pointed out. The one about his Mac read. It's not a lot, but Marmot can be read over time anyhow.

I vaguely support Falcon wagon over Creature as well.
Perhaps because I think if Creature is town, it can become more apparent over time.
This is not really a very qualified opinion.
Most likely, I won't vote anyone.

Most likely, I won't vote anyone.

Jk

[VOTE: Falcon] aubergine

@marmot Do you feel you have an ok grasp of the game state?

Not in the slightest, I've probably read 100 posts or so, plus a few ISOs about 30 hours ago.

Do you have a tl;dr?

Then why did you say THIS

I also don't think a team of DrWilgy and falcon would both attempt to simultaneously scumread a town!Mac (in this gamestate).

Ok, you said it long time ago.

But also

GOTCHA HAHAHHAHAHAH

Marmot may be mafia, but we should do Marmot chop on D2 anyway.

Did Ender actually just leave his vote on me when I no posted? What kind of cringe level is that? Like A GAZILLION.

Did Ender actually just leave his vote on me when I no posted? What kind of cringe level is that? Like A GAZILLION.

to be fair. I had my vote on you till you replied to my question when you were no posting

Well, I hope you had fun while it lasted.

And I don't see how that helps Ender's case, cause that was cringe as well.

Two cringes doesn't make a swag.

[VOTE: Ender] aubergine

For ultimate cringe.

Can't wolves just be among the low hanging who got townread early (lucy, Boquise, idk who else)?

No, that would be IMPOSSIBLE!

I simply MUST refuse!

And also, no idea, haven't read their post, also don't care, BAIIIIi

[VOTE: Dizzy ] aubergine

Opencringing

[VOTE: Falcon] aubergine

Now there’s enough votes for bussing to happen.

Gottem.

[VOTE: Marmot] aubergine



Gotta make supper and yadda yadda, so I won't be around EOD.




I'm Town! If I get flipped tonight, good luck townies! And I'll see ya in the funny pages

Oh wow.

I’m sure this vote will clear Marmot next day.

Good call.

If this is a town flip, tomorrow we're reevaluating every read. It feels like some players were prematurely townread and that prevented us from properly wolfhunting.

It’s ok. I’ll tunnel Sean if Falcon is town.

Ender lock towning me is probably some bullshit. Nobody should lock town me, even when everyone should.

But I’m staying on Falcon anyway.

Good night for real

I've crammed these posts together for the sake of monitoring a single theme. I wanted to determine to what extent Dizzy's posts in late Day 1 were relevant to anything happening in the game. Given that he and Marmot both arrived and started to get involved later, my initial views of each kind of became intertwined. My viewpoint has been that Marmot's posts have been more incisive, relevant, and impactful. Dizzy's seemed, by contrast, more plodding and there.

So the posts in this spoiler represent examples of what I would call unique Dizzy reads or pursuits that are either strictly game-relevant or could be seen as such as extensions of various dialogues in the thread. Seeing it all together is at least somewhat illuminating. While Dizzy did not open as well as Marmot (that's a view I still hold), this is still a better spurt of involvement than I had been giving him credit for. There is stuff here, and some of it is unique to Dizzy and suitable to his perspective as a late-arriving potential "LHF". It's at least an okay start.

Spoiler: show

I think Marmot is town. And that's probably the extent of my useful contribution right now.

I think Marmot is town. And that's probably the extent of my useful contribution right now.

What inspires you most about our dear local rodent

That he cared to switch off of Falcon at EoD. A collection of good posts, his fluffy and adorable hair, and my well known god read on him.

I had a similar enough view of Marmot's entry, so sure. I'll just mark this here as a reference for future progression.

Spoiler: show

@EnderWiggin You're not town for pretending you have deep thoughts that you don't want to share.

Dizzy's view of Ender has been peculiar. There seems to be a consistent acknowledgement of suspicion (or the potential for suspicion), but the conclusion has been town reads or otherwise protective. I poked at that briefly here (click).

Spoiler: show

Shouldn't I have at least one vote by now, or by soon?
Am I scary?

I started to read the game, but my eyes got heavy.
I'll try again tomorrow or tonight.

(Also, the weather is amazing).

While I dig around these interactions, here's a good way for folks to engage: either with or without looking first, are their any pairings on the current roster that strike you as particularly probable mafia teammates or otherwise concerning? Or pairings that are definitely not teammates in your eyes?

Dizzy/Creature

Stop doing wifom. Yes, you are scary, Fleabag. *swift hand thwack*

Spoiler: show

Celebrating my 10000 posts anniversary by mentioning I'm happy to be a part of this community,
and to be floating around in the larger mafia community multiverse.

I still remember how welcoming everyone was when I played my first games here at Cindy Kate!

Hopefully, we can continue to have fun with this silly or deep game!

Maybe the real wolves were the friends we made along the way.

You're one of my absolute favorite humans. We're so fortunate to have you around here.

Spoiler: show

I should probably explain why I think she's mafia.
Her posts doesn't go anywhere.
I think she knew Falcon was town and that is coming through in her posts, for example when talking about Mac's read on Falcon.
Her vote on me is preemptive self pres, with added non-reasoning.
And yes, it is silly. But I think she would feel the urge to do that as mafia, and not town.

Just my feelings on it.

[VOTE: Fingers] aubergine

This post reads a little beep boop by the distinctly non-beep-boop standards of Dyslexicon. The rationale for suspecting fingersplints is technically valid, but rather textbook and perhaps uncharitable to the post in which fingersplints voted him, an emoji-laden jovial thing.

Spoiler: show

I'm slightly puzzled by how Sean says I'm unreadable,
however, Ender says I have a town entrance on meta (still unexplained as far as I know).

I agree that my play is probably quite unusual, meta wise.
So I'm really wondering how Ender came to this conclusions.

Weirder things have happened, I guess.
But I would really like to know.

I appreciate Dizzy's unease with Ender's town read on him. I wish the progression for Dizzy's own read on Ender were clearer from this initial platform.

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

Speaking of weak vote on me,
Creature's vote is weak. The vote in itself is fine, but the explanation is lacking.
Finger's vote right after is worse imo. Because there is no reasoning, only something posing as it. And this at a time where our wagons were tied.

I don't know, but I somehow doubt that they both are mafia piling on. Could happen, but "meh".

I harbor some misgivings about fingersplints too. For the moment though I am giving some thought/weight to Marmot's view of her. Do you have a perspective about this clicky clicky

I just read the second game Marmot linked too. It certainly is much shorter and weaker.
I'm not quite sure. I have also played with Finger's a fair amount, and I've always found it pretty easy to find her as town. I feel like her posting so far in this game also has been weak, without any actual reads. But there is more volume. I'll see what more she does.

This looks very good for Marmot if Fingers is town though. I actually think Marmot is just town anyway.

Just marking this post as important to Dizzy's progression on fingersplints. I may or may not refer to it later in this wall. Marmot provided some concrete reasoning to town read fingersplints, probably more than anyone else in the game. Whatever Dizzy's read, I would expect him to give some consideration to what Marmot has to say here. He kind of does, or hints at doing it. We'll see.

Spoiler: show

Meh

[VOTE: Wilgy] aubergine

Osmosis

It's unclear with Nate's vote review, but I believe this was the first Wilgy vote as of this iteration of Day 2 Wilgy wagons (the second of three times he had at least one vote). This was about 2.5 hours after I posted my interactions chart with Wilgy looking better. I would expect Dizzy to give at least some of a poop about my work here, so that's not my favorite thing. Folks (including but not limited to Dizzy) have seen me do these charts to strong effect plenty of times, so, pardon my conceit, but it deserves some poops given.

Spoiler: show

@RondoDimBuckle, Alison has placed a vote on your head. Please talk about that and thanks

It is a thing she has done . I dont really care too much because I knew it was coming and it makes me happy

Why would someone attacking you make you happy?

Because I am a giant troll and love when I can elicit an emotional reaction from people. Ala, you entering thread and insta voting me. Its predictability is food for the soul. It just makes me happy

You didn't exactly jump for joy though. I said I suspected you, you were like "ha ha ha, I knew it!" and then proceeded to steadfastly ignore me from then until now. I didn't get the impression you were trying to fish reactions out of me or that you felt particularly gleeful. I'd expect a troll who really wanted me to attack them to at least tease or bait me once or twice, but you've mostly ignored me, even in the face of constant provocation (ie. me talking about you a bunch).

I really dislike this post a lot.

Such complete unnecessary construction of bs.

So I'm interested in Alison now.

[VOTE: Alison] aubergine

[VOTE: Alison] aubergine

This may or may not be a good idea.

And a Wilgy/Creature vote may be safer

This is something I appreciate from Dizzy. As would become clearer later, Dizzy seemed to develop a concern about too many people in the game seeming town -- Dizzy has been like Diet Creature in this way. For him to get to digging and then take issue with broadly town-read Alison serves as a viable starting point for that perspective. It's more believable than just some general vibe that "something's wrong", and allows for a tangible progression to that mindset. Also, if Alison is town, this could be called rattling a hornet's nest.

Spoiler: show

@JaggedJimmyJay I'm only on page 15. I found Alison's reasons for reading Falcon and Lucy town and Rondo wolf to be weird and cherry picky. Continuing the reading...

Also, if you know of semi recent Wilgy town or wolf games at the top of your mind, can you name some?

Meh. Wilgy's meta is an enigmatic array of confusion. It's a bit hard to see this moving the needle.

Spoiler: show

Right now, the only ones who fall "below the line" for me are Alison, Wilgy and Creature. Nate is complete null. Ender and Fingers may be a bit of a "meh sure". Sean is fine. The others are town. Actually, I forgot Marmot, which I did read town, but I'm going to reevaluate as I read further.

Going out for some candy, AND THIS IS NOT A COFFEE TELL

I'll mark the orange thing though per previous references. At least on some vague level, Dizzy is thinking about fingersplints suspicion instead of just having fingersplints suspicion. Whether Marmot's read plays in heavily is unclear, but Dizzy ought not be accused of tunneling.

Spoiler: show

In related news, I was about to town lean on Create from him demanding it.

And I will end up having troubles with too many town leans.

Can one of y'all scumbums just slip up in a way that I catch so I can tunnel you into oblivion and die N1? I'm starting to get the feeling that this game will actually take some work, so if we can make that not happen, I'd appreciate it.

I'm a simp, and this is not the reason necessarily, but I'm about to have Sean join Townsville

Oh no. I might town lean on Wilgy and I don't want that to happen

Ok, I've come to the point where I officially hate the game. Gl gl

Fuck. Getting to the part of thread where Nate posts, and it reads townie already.

What do you make of the game state right now? Do you have a decent grasp on who you think the wolves could be?

Turbulent. The vibe is good, but the solving is turbulent. I still feel mostly okay about this POE group, perhaps with Wilgy added:

Creature
Dyslexicon
EnderWiggin
fingersplints
RondoDimBuckle

While acknowledging town accounts exist for these slots. Much of my own turbulence is that many suspects I have called out have been vouched for by someone, often by a town read. That can be healthy enough, but it's challenging. Maybe this is how mountainous feels.

All mafia are not in this bunch, I can almost guarantee it.

I don't really feel Dizzy as today's chop.

Will you dare have an opinion on me that isn't upper PoE at any point? Or will you be dead before you do?

Maybe, Fleabag

Yeah, but Fleabag could've taught you something?
I don't know. I just find myself very easy to read lol.
Actually, I wonder if I would. Probably not. It's pretty much Hally oof.

@Dyslexicon if you had to produce a POE of six what names are included

Alison
Wilgy
Finger
Ender
Nate
Marmot (tbd, his D1 is lacking, looking back at it)

Pew pew

Ok, I'm doing this: Ender town.

@JaggedJimmyJay You should start to realise your healthy game state is not what you think it is at some point.

Ok, I'm doing this: Ender town.

@JaggedJimmyJay You should start to realise your healthy game state is not what you think it is at some point.

Okay, what changed your mind?

I haven't actually ever wolf read you. I've been unsure. But right when I said this, I read your post to me like "Either way, me town reading you is a win for you. Either I'm correct or you get to laugh about it in secret." It was very "Why do you care" in a way that took it for granted that I shouldn't care about your alignment. Yeah, that is way convoluted and not strong, but it's something that's been brewing, and I just feel you're town. I already said as much. Like, you play kind of wolfy, but you're probably town, is the feeling I'm getting.

Also, I'm town reading literally everyone, so don't feel special.

I still hated Finger's joke vote on me for some reason. Maybe that's just dumb. Are we sure she's town?

Who is the bus vote on Wilgy though? Cause I don't see any. And that's mildly bad.

Can't wait for the thread state after this town flip. Will be so cool!

Also, don't switch off of Wilgy, please!

This is a portion of Dizzy's posts (all around late Day 2) that I find easier to digest (and to believe). There's been some hint already that he is not comfortable with the game state, and you can kind of see in live action how that continues to get worse and more frustrating for Dizzy. Whether all of these town reads in here are warranted or justified can be questioned, but the most important thing to identify is whether Dizzy believes in them or not. There's a degree of turbulence in this stuff that I feel, and even on some level relate too -- my own perspective late in Day 2 was more turbulent than I would like for it to be. Some of these bits, like directly appealing to me (Mr. Game State) about the game state, or groaning aloud about fingersplints seeming scummy and getting town read by [others], they say something about Dizzy's mindset, and I think it generally makes sense that he has arrived at this point. I have also had some of the "my town reads are town reading my suspects, and it's quite frustrating" sensation, and that is the kind of thing that leads to turbulence. It's not necessarily "wrong" or "bad", but it's still frustrating.

I think Dizzy's play builds to this [current] conclusion appropriately, and it's as of right now the biggest reason have to call him town.

Spoiler: show

Vote Wilgy. It's the cool thing to do.

[VOTE: Wilgy] aubergine

Just leaving this to mark Dizzy's final Day 2 vote (4th for Wilgy).

Conclusion

There is a lot going on here. I think that's to be expected with Dyslexicon. He's a complex player in general, and his play in this game hasn't really been amenable to whatever "meta" I might describe for him either way. So I give my focus to face value perspectives. You'll see that I have a lot of small gripes in this review (particularly with Dizzy's handling of Ender and Wilgy), and Dizzy ought to answer to those gripes however he may. It is very important to sort him, and that will help everyone not just me. My overall perspective slants slightly in the town direction, because it's the last stuff I discussed that moves me most. I acknowledge that it's a contentious review, and I would love to hear others' perspectives about it or about Dizzy in general.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Quick, JJJ is posting walls, everyone hide

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm really glad there's a break today, to in effect extend our time to think. I hope I can take advantage while we're closed assuming AMERICA doesn't FUCK YEAH too hard.

[Dyslexicon]

I'm really glad there's a break today, to in effect extend our time to think. I hope I can take advantage while we're closed assuming AMERICA doesn't FUCK YEAH too hard.

A break?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm really glad there's a break today, to in effect extend our time to think. I hope I can take advantage while we're closed assuming AMERICA doesn't FUCK YEAH too hard.

A break?

click for fireworks pew pew

[NateTheLesser]

I'm not sure I agree as much as the rest of you that NKA points so strongly to a wolf in Jay/Boq/Alison, YET. I think that would be true if the thread consensus yesterday had been that there must be a wolf in those three, but that wasn't the thread consensus IMO. (Not that it couldn't be true, I just don't think the Sean kill should make us tinfoil that trio without other reasons to tinfoil).

I'm not sure that I follow. Is there a way that you could re-word or re-state the orange portion?

Sure. Not to make everything about champs, but, I think the pattern that Boq is applying is that there were some games where it became notable that a certain group of "known to be good at the game" players weren't being NK'd (the game with Nanook/Jack/Dobby is one), and the thread consensus became that the group can't be all pure, and because there was a wolf in that group they continued to kill elsewhere so as not to narrow that "POE". And I'm saying I don't think we match that pattern at this point, because "there must be a wolf in Jay/Boq/Alison" was not a consensus yesterday.

[Dyslexicon]

@JaggedJimmyJay I appreciate the attention. I'll answer or comment on some things:

- You're very right that my read on Ender is weird. I have some resistance to scum read him, because I don't feel that it's right. It's pretty much as I said, I feel like he's acting kind of scummy, but is most likely town. Which he should stop by the way. I'm on p43 in my read through now, taking it slow as I have a lot of time today, and one of my takeaways is still that Ender is town. He plays with a certain confidence. So if I'm reaching for actual reasoning, I'd say that it doesn't look like he's worried about being caught as scum, simply because he can't be. Like, people can dislike his play or reads, but it doesn't really matter. This could be a ploy, or too simplistic on my side. I can be wrong. I just haven't found much wrong with his posts. I liked how he reevaluated Sean. I liked how he hopped on the Falcon wagon while previously been against it, cause that's just unnecessary attention at a point where Falcon was going over anyway. I'll continue to read and try to keep and open mind, but don't currently see Ender as scum here.

- It was not wifom about me being scary as wolf. It was me asking why I was not pushed more with votes. If I was scary for the mafia. I tend to OMGUS, I'm easy to pocket, and even if I look like I'll be somewhat of an easy mischop, I know for a fact I'm not. So it was just sort of a dare/passing thought.

- I had not read your analysis of Wilgy at the time I voted him. I was actually just reading that and thinking I wished I read it before. Don't know if it would change much though, as in the end I just wanted to sheep Sean. Also the Wilgy thing I wanted to check was if he would sheep others openly more as either alignment. I didn't come to a conclusion about it, and I think it's the sort of tell that is unlikely to be a tell anyway.

---

I don't remember if there's more I should comment on - let me know.
Your analysis is very lucid. I do have worries though. I feel like you here, and in the game as a whole, are treating me with silk gloves. You're not really rattling or poking me much at all. I don't expect you to go all Sean or Alison in your questioning, but it's something I already noticed and why I asked you for a GTH read.

[Dyslexicon]

I'm really glad there's a break today, to in effect extend our time to think. I hope I can take advantage while we're closed assuming AMERICA doesn't FUCK YEAH too hard.

A break?

click for fireworks pew pew

Oh right. The MURICA thing is happening.

A break sounds good tbh.

[Dyslexicon]

Falcon - 8 - Nate, Jimmay, Finger, Dizzy, Ender, Mac, Alison, Lucy
Ender - 3 - Creature, Marmot, Wilgy
Marmot - 2 - Boq, Falcon
Wilgy - 1 - Sean
Dizzy - 1 - Rondo

Though weirder things have happened, it would surprise me if all mafia were on the Falcon wagon.
Creature, Marmot, Boq and Rondo are the ones alive who were off it.

I also wouldn't be surprised if none of the votes hit mafia, but that's a shrug at this point.

[robyn]

marmot and ender seem like fine lynches to me. I dislike Nate, and I think one of jjj and boq is scum

[robyn]

Boq still hasn't talked to Marmot

[robyn]

I think Alison is being kept alive because she isn't doing much, she should start. also if I recall wasn't seanzie suspecting Alison yesterday

[robyn]

dizzy just started playing, which could be contrived, so neutral lean

[Marmot]

Falcon - 8 - Nate, Jimmay, Finger, Dizzy, Ender, Mac, Alison, Lucy
Ender - 3 - Creature, Marmot, Wilgy
Marmot - 2 - Boq, Falcon
Wilgy - 1 - Sean
Dizzy - 1 - Rondo

Though weirder things have happened, it would surprise me if all mafia were on the Falcon wagon.
Creature, Marmot, Boq and Rondo are the ones alive who were off it.

I also wouldn't be surprised if none of the votes hit mafia, but that's a shrug at this point.

Unless you scumread me, that means that every single one of those wagons is a townread in your eyes, which probably doesn't make vca very effective

[Dyslexicon]

Falcon - 8 - Nate, Jimmay, Finger, Dizzy, Ender, Mac, Alison, Lucy
Ender - 3 - Creature, Marmot, Wilgy
Marmot - 2 - Boq, Falcon
Wilgy - 1 - Sean
Dizzy - 1 - Rondo

Though weirder things have happened, it would surprise me if all mafia were on the Falcon wagon.
Creature, Marmot, Boq and Rondo are the ones alive who were off it.

I also wouldn't be surprised if none of the votes hit mafia, but that's a shrug at this point.

Unless you scumread me, that means that every single one of those wagons is a townread in your eyes, which probably doesn't make vca very effective

They aren't. I'm kind of starting over again.

[Marmot]

Falcon - 8 - Nate, Jimmay, Finger, Dizzy, Ender, Mac, Alison, Lucy
Ender - 3 - Creature, Marmot, Wilgy
Marmot - 2 - Boq, Falcon
Wilgy - 1 - Sean
Dizzy - 1 - Rondo

Though weirder things have happened, it would surprise me if all mafia were on the Falcon wagon.
Creature, Marmot, Boq and Rondo are the ones alive who were off it.

I also wouldn't be surprised if none of the votes hit mafia, but that's a shrug at this point.

Unless you scumread me, that means that every single one of those wagons is a townread in your eyes, which probably doesn't make vca very effective

They aren't. I'm kind of starting over again.

But you just said you don't think Ender is scum here.

Unless you're refreshing as of the last hour or so.

[Dyslexicon]

Falcon - 8 - Nate, Jimmay, Finger, Dizzy, Ender, Mac, Alison, Lucy
Ender - 3 - Creature, Marmot, Wilgy
Marmot - 2 - Boq, Falcon
Wilgy - 1 - Sean
Dizzy - 1 - Rondo

Though weirder things have happened, it would surprise me if all mafia were on the Falcon wagon.
Creature, Marmot, Boq and Rondo are the ones alive who were off it.

I also wouldn't be surprised if none of the votes hit mafia, but that's a shrug at this point.

Unless you scumread me, that means that every single one of those wagons is a townread in your eyes, which probably doesn't make vca very effective

Wait, I thought you mean the ones off wagon. But yeah, most of the targets are probably town, if not all. I think. Which makes in effective insofar that I think it's unlikely all mafia decided to just nuke Falcon. BUT - it's not really that simple... Not sure where to go with this yet.

[NateTheLesser]

Meh

[VOTE: Wilgy] aubergine

Osmosis

@NateTheLesser, in your vote sheet, is this the Dizzy vote you have marked with ??? for the time?

Well, this shows that you're reading closely. (And it gives me an honest town ping on you, not just in a self-centered way because you're using my spreadsheet, but because to me it shows that you were interested in seeing the wagon context of Dizzy's votes while doing your ISO, which is a level of detail wolves often don't bother with if the ISO is just for show.)

Anyway, the post you quoted turned into the "hmm" that I mentioned earlier, that made me wonder if I should be paying closer attention to Dizzy. Because from their post history, there's the vote post you quoted and then their next post in the thread is this one:

I also hate that it’s tied me and Marmot. I don’t want to be forced to vote practically my only defender but I definitely won’t make it awake til EOD today

Who do you want to vote?

The timestamps for me are 7:26am for the vote post and 1:18pm for the next one, so it looks like they switched their vote to Wilgy and then dipped for a few hours, fine. But the poll doesn't match up. I was taking screenshots every once in a while, and a screenshot at 9:22am shows Dizzy's vote still on Fingersplints, the next screenshot at 10:58am shows the vote now on Wilgy. So basically somewhere between 2-4 hours after the vote post is when they voted in the poll, during a time when they weren't otherwise posting in the thread. Does this say anything about their alignment? No, I don't think it does. But it does lend some support to my gut feeling that they're not as disengaged as they appear, which is why I wanted some more eyes on them today.

[Marmot]

dizzy just started playing, which could be contrived, so neutral lean

I don't understand this observation. Has he not been playing?

[Marmot]

lucy, you've had remarkably little to say about Dizzy this entire game, why is that?

[Marmot]

And why is your first stance on him a Day 3 post that says "Oh he's finally playing now"?

[robyn]

lucy, you've had remarkably little to say about Dizzy this entire game, why is that?

I don't like reading people with insufficient information to go off, and I've said "little" this entire game tbh

[robyn]

And why is your first stance on him a Day 3 post that says "Oh he's finally playing now"?

that's not a stance, that's an observation

[Marmot]

You're approaching 300 posts, I wouldn't call that little

[robyn]

dizzy just started playing, which could be contrived, so neutral lean

I don't understand this observation. Has he not been playing?

hasn't said much of anything game relevant until now yes

[Marmot]

And why is your first stance on him a Day 3 post that says "Oh he's finally playing now"?

that's not a stance, that's an observation

In the same post I was referencing, you stated a stance of "neutral lean"

If you had to lean one way or the other, which would you pick?